Your nemesis corner?

[Sully60]

Alright we probably all have that one corner that we just don't like.

You might have crashed on this corner or had a scary moment. You might have never felt like you've got it right or worse still you've been carved up by an old geezer on a GN250 with a Pro helmet and yellow PVC wet weather gear:mad:

Where ever it may be (road, track, dirt) tell us of your nemesis corner and tell us why you don't like it, you never know someone might have had the same experience and may be able to help you out.

Mine doesn't exsist anymore, the old hairpin (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/picture.php?albumid=48&pictureid=6206) at Centennial Park Taupo


I think I got this corner right twice on the whole three seasons I raced there and I definately crashed there three times, all for the same reason. It was just so enticing to get on the gas, hard, early to beat the racer next to you to the right hander. This always ended in scuffed leathers and a bent gear lever and on one occasion a stalled YZ426F that didn't start for the remainder of the race:doh:


So share your experience and tell us all what is you nemesis corner!

[nodrog]

the corner of the garage wall at DMNTD's old house in whangarei is my nemithingy. somehow it managed to bend the rules of physics and gravity and cause me to jump his street magic onto the back of his 1 week old ZX10, fortunatly it managed to bend the laws of the inevitable and i avoided a smack in the head.

[Gubb]

My driveway.

It's claimed 4 bikes so far.

[FROSTY]

Not so much nemisis but over the years some corners have just sat there screaming at me. "YOU CAN'T BEAT ME"
Jennian at Pukie was the first.-a right hand corner that you can't see around Knowing full well that others go in there flat out with no problems Yet Im at half throttle filling my pants wondering how the heck they can do it.
But when I FINALLY got it right it felt really realy good

[MSTRS]

Only corner that saw me off was on the back road Paraparaumu towards McKays crossing. Shit brakes and a pillion = ooops.
These days I haven't found a corner that scares me (I'm old and slow...) but I definitely don't like any corner that rolls off-camber from the apex on. There is one like this on HW50 heading north, the first lefthander after the brow of the hill where the scenery opens out to the whole Bay area.

[Number One]

Rimutaka Hill road. Last passing lane on the Southside going up to the top. Right hand corner up a kink and rise.

Spun the car out on it and had my first and only bin on a bike on it too.

It's a great corner and it feels cool to do BUT I'm useless at it!

[DarkLord]

There's one out on SH 22 for me.... not sure where exactly but when you are heading south it's a 35 right hand corner except the road also dips down, so I find myself trying to go round a tight corner which often has gravel on the road while going downhill as well....most of the other corners on SH 22 are fine for me but this one always catches me, I usually end up nana-ing it around it at 20 k's in second gear just to make sure I get round the blasted thing.....

[Dakara]

The first righthander on the series of downhill twisties heading into Kawakawa bay... Downhill off-camber and tightening mid corner. Haven't binned, it just seems to always catch me slightly too fast.

My Bin however, on the the Coro, was my first time there so can't really call it a "Nemesis" :rolleyes:

[Sully60]

the corner of the garage wall at DMNTD's old house in whangarei

Hmmmm, do those sorts of corners count?:doobey:

[nodrog]

Hmmmm, do those sorts of corners count?:doobey:

LOL, i was straight as a die officer, the 50cc of raw power got away on me.

[skelstar]

Rimutakas, last left-hander before the top, Feathers-side (aiee)... crashed on it. Reason: no idea.

Rimutakas, left-hander approaching the 2nd to last passing lane, Feathers-side, uphill and downhill. Crashed on it. Reason: wind is a bitch there, comes up inside you and stands the bike up, forcing you to run straight.

[Number One]

Farken wind!!!! :angry:

[ManDownUnder]

Yeah - right here (http://www.smaps.co.nz/nz/new+plymouth/brooklands/tarahua+road/34/). A nice easy uphill right hander, brilliant fun - shocks preloaded, more than enough traction to really fang it around the corner...

... till I saw the concrete truck angle parked, pouring a new footpath... and right in my path. :eek5::crazy::eek5::crazy::eek5:

ummm... :Oops:.

[boomer]

the corner of the garage wall at DMNTD's old house in whangarei is my nemithingy. somehow it managed to bend the rules of physics and gravity and cause me to jump his street magic onto the back of his 1 week old ZX10, fortunatly it managed to bend the laws of the inevitable and i avoided a smack in the head.

bwahahhahahaahahahah don't ya hate Biology Au !!

[MadDuck]

My driveway.


Yep mine toooooo......

Other one is of course "Jandal Corner"

[Trudes]

Rimutaka Hill road. Last passing lane on the Southside going up to the top. Right hand corner up a kink and rise.

Spun the car out on it and had my first and only bin on a bike on it too.

It's a great corner and it feels cool to do BUT I'm useless at it!

If that's the corner I think you mean I used to hate that corner too, until I learned to love it! Realised if I lean right into it, look right through the corner and apply the gas the bike goes round it quite happily and it really is an awesome corner, my favourite now (until I arse off that is!):lol:

My least fav (that I can think of) is up the Takas too, Featherston side heading up, second to last passing lane right-hander just as the passing lane ends, the camber is all wrong and then the passing lane ends and you feel like you're going to end up in the cliff face or the side of the car you're passing. Hate that corner!!! But I will beat it one day... maybe this summer!

[Number One]

If that's the corner I think you mean I used to hate that corner too, until I learned to love it! Realised if I lean right into it, look right through the corner and apply the gas the bike goes round it quite happily and it really is an awesome corner, my favourite now (until I arse off that is!):lol:

My least fav (that I can think of) is up the Takas too, Featherston side heading up, second to last passing lane right-hander just as the passing lane ends, the camber is all wrong and then the passing lane ends and you feel like you're going to end up in the cliff face or the side of the car you're passing. Hate that corner!!! But I will beat it one day... maybe this summer!
Maybe you can school me on the one I don't like and I can just be supportive of you for the one you don't like :lol:

[Dodger]

Rimutaka Hill road. Last passing lane on the Southside going up to the top. Right hand corner up a kink and rise.

Add me to that one, I hate that corner. I've had to many near misses on it :crazy:

I'm also not to happy with the 25kph bend on Greys road (heading east), it's a nice 80kph road, with some good corners and then that 25km bend sneaks up on you. :(

I think my biggest problem is that the Bike is used for commuting 90% of the time and I don't get the time to go out for a "play" ride, as such my cornering is crap (there's not that many corners between Stokes Valley and Wellington)

[Pwalo]

It's not really a nemesis corner, but I just can't get the corner leading on to SH2 from the Gorge right.

I'm always just getting on the gas too soon looking to get past the cars before merging with SH2.

Still I get plenty of practice.

[Trudes]

Maybe you can school me on the one I don't like and I can just be supportive of you for the one you don't like :lol:

ha me school you, Yeah right!!

[Coyote]

A corner on Wallaceville Hill Road in Upper Hutt. A month after smashing the RG into the bank after cockily passing a 600, the corrugations that made me loose grip got sealed over.

[MSTRS]

It's not really a nemesis corner, but I just can't get the corner leading on to SH2 from the Gorge right.

I'm always just getting on the gas too soon looking to get past the cars before merging with SH2.

Still I get plenty of practice.

Huh? SH2 intersects in the middle of Woodville....
Do you mean the left/right combo after the yellows finish, just before the Ballance bridge?

[Number One]

A corner on Wallaceville Hill Road in Upper Hutt. A month after smashing the RG into the bank after cockily passing a 600, the corrugations that made me loose grip got sealed over.
:lol: I'm sorry you passed a 600 going up there? Was he pushing it? :lol:

[Deano]

Rimutaka Hill road. Last passing lane on the Southside going up to the top. Right hand corner up a kink and rise.

Spun the car out on it and had my first and only bin on a bike on it too.

It's a great corner and it feels cool to do BUT I'm useless at it!

Ditto - I think I've only ever got it right once.

Actually - I was thinking of the right hander on the last passing lane on the Hutt side.

[skelstar]

:lol: I'm sorry you passed a 600 going up there? Was he pushing it? :lol:

I think he means a Fiat Bambina... weren't the Abarth ones 600cc?

[HenryDorsetCase]

turn one at ruapuna (the kink) i need to develop the sack to take it flat on the 400 but I seem to roll off just that little bit every time. stupid brain.

oh, and "pothole" also at ruapuna: same thing. I know I should be able to go a LOT quicker than I go there. :(

[Kinje]

If that's the corner I think you mean I used to hate that corner too, until I learned to love it! Realised if I lean right into it, look right through the corner and apply the gas the bike goes round it quite happily and it really is an awesome corner, my favourite now (until I arse off that is!):lol:

My least fav (that I can think of) is up the Takas too, Featherston side heading up, second to last passing lane right-hander just as the passing lane ends, the camber is all wrong and then the passing lane ends and you feel like you're going to end up in the cliff face or the side of the car you're passing. Hate that corner!!! But I will beat it one day... maybe this summer!

Yep, second last passing lane going up Featherston side - It's the one where I came off. At the end of the left hand lane there seems to be a slight hump making the camber all screwwy
I find it better if you're in the right hand (passing) lane.

[Coyote]

:lol: I'm sorry you passed a 600 going up there? Was he pushing it? :lol:
No, but it sounds better when I don't say that :p

The RG can be a hell of a lot quicker than bigger bikes on corners. It'll blitz anything on Blue Mountains hill road.

[Number One]

No, but it sounds better when I don't say that :p

The RG can be a hell of a lot quicker than bigger bikes on corners. It'll blitz anything on Blue Mountains hill road.
Now this is blunt....but that's me.

If you are passing on that road you are a cock...racing nanas in their Echos doesn't count! If you tried to pass me up there I would likely push you off.

[Coyote]

Now this is blunt....but that's me.

If you are passing on that road you are a cock...racing nanas in their Echos doesn't count! If you tried to pass me up there I would likely push you off.
Yes I was a cock. I've wisened up since.

Up to everyone else whether I'm still considered a cock or not. I can be accused of being a nana now though. I'm not afraid of going fast, I'm afraid of hurting the bike and being off the road (like I am now...).

It was a bad day for RG's. The 2 others I was riding fell off on loose gravel. Koba on his old GSX was the only one that stayed on 2 wheels :laugh:

[Number One]

Koba on his old GSX was the only one that stayed on 2 wheels :laugh:
KOBA FTW!!!!! :love: He is definitely NOT a cock :hug:

[Coyote]

KOBA FTW!!!!! :love: He is definitely NOT a cock :hug:
Debatable :p

[Str8 Jacket]

A corner on Wallaceville Hill Road in Upper Hutt. A month after smashing the RG into the bank after cockily passing a 600, the corrugations that made me loose grip got sealed over.
OR... Coyote was riding above his own limits and fucked up.


KOBA FTW!!!!! :love: He is definitely NOT a cock :hug:
Isnt he looooooovely.... :love:


Debatable :p
See my first comment of the post.... :p


My nemesis corner, hmm, probably the turn off from taranaki st into vivian st as thats where I was blown of my KR at least twice while turning the corner. The other corner is the tight left hander (hairpin) on Piecock, just after you pass the sight seeing stop as you head toward the beach.... I just cant get that corner right!

[vifferman]

It's not so much a particular corner, but any random corner. I find that if there's summat tricky about it, like it's off-camber, slippery, bumpy, obscured, or whatever, I can end up looking at the corner (or the road surface, or both), and not through the corner, and it stuffs it up. One corner that took me ages to master was on the way to work - right-angle left, changing elevation, bump in mid corner. It wasn't till I got a new rear shock and set it up properly, and had the Storms fitted, that I was able to just corner, and not think about it.
On the way home, there's an intersection that's tricky, because it's just by the traffic lights, the cars in the right-hand lane sometimes stop and give way, but the ones in the left don't, and there's large, slippery "KEEP CLEAR" painted all over the road. So, it's not until I can stop trying to look at the clear road between the white paint, AND the oncoming traffic, AND the cars wating to come out of the sidestreet, that I can actually look where I want to go and open the throttle. Up to that point, everything just hangs in the balance, on the verge of potential crisis.... :eek5:

It still amazes me (after so many, many years of riding) just how HUGE a difference it makes where you are looking when riding.

[Trudes]

That's a bloody good point Viffer, thinking about that stupid lumpy off camber corner I hate, I can see myself now sitting here riding it and where am I looking? At the big hump in the road (so the road) or at the arse end of the car I'm trying to get round before the passing lane ends! Good point, thanks, look around/through the corner (and not at the on coming car either!!) Cheers.

[Coyote]

OR... Coyote was riding above his own limits and fucked up.

10 points! You're tied for first with hXc

I now ride well below my limits and it's become very boring. Though taking the bus at the moment is worse. Last time I went for a fun ride was November and that's when everyone pointed out my bike's shock was busted :(

[<Rhino>]

Coming from Porirua to the Hutt, at the top of the hill before you drop down to SH2, over the crest theres an easy right hander that drops into a decending lefty. I hate that corner for the simple fact that if you fail to take the corner or come off and slide straight ahead your gonna go through a cheescutter! I tend to slow right down keep to the left of the lane and take it easy.

[Coyote]

Coming from Porirua to the Hutt, at the top of the hill before you drop down to SH2, over the crest theres an easy right hander that drops into a decending lefty. I hate that corner for the simple fact that if you fail to take the corner or come off and slide straight ahead your gonna go through a cheescutter! I tend to slow right down keep to the left of the lane and take it easy.
It's a bit corrugated there too.

[Sully60]

My nemesis corner, hmm, probably the turn off from taranaki st into vivian st as thats where I was blown of my KR at least twice while turning the corner. The other corner is the tight left hander (hairpin) on Piecock, just after you pass the sight seeing stop as you head toward the beach.... I just cant get that corner right!

So not Pothole then?

[Trudes]

Eww yeah, Piecock Hill road, heading back to Pahatanui, about half way along there is a blind right hander that has some really yucky patching I think it is right on the apex (well, my apex anyway) and everytime I ride it I'm aware that it's somewhere along there and then I hit it and my tyres get stuck in between the ruts and wants to spit me off, bloody stupid road. I'm pretty sure I should just gas it, but never entirely sure if it'll help me get out or just spit me off quicker. grrrrrr:2guns:

[Deano]

How about the first right hander on the cliff hanger ?

I can go through it tapped out on the SV but the thousand......

[Str8 Jacket]

How about the first right hander on the cliff hanger ?

I can go through it tapped out on the SV but the thousand......

And the corner just before the bridge. That was pretty scary coming up over that... Then there was the corner after the bridge, I had my first tank slapper there the surface was pretty shitty form what I remember. Or maybe I was just riding above my own limits..... :wait:

[Sully60]

Eww yeah, Piecock Hill road, heading back to Pahatanui, about half way along there is a blind right hander that has some really yucky patching I think it is right on the apex (well, my apex anyway) and everytime I ride it I'm aware that it's somewhere along there and then I hit it and my tyres get stuck in between the ruts and wants to spit me off, bloody stupid road. I'm pretty sure I should just gas it, but never entirely sure if it'll help me get out or just spit me off quicker. grrrrrr:2guns:

Here's some helping out as I mentioned at the start.

If you're not confident about gassing and turning because of the surface, get the bike slowed down and pointed where you need it to go (so hopefully you would already be looking in that direction) this way you're free to deal with the issue and don't have to concentrate on where you need to go, carry steady throttle until you've cleared whatever it is that bothers you, then accelerate as normal from there. If you can't avoid (eliminate) the risks then minimise the risk and start over when the canvas for carving is clear.

$0.02 FWIW.

[jrandom]

Somewhere between Kawakawa Bay and Clevedon...

Right here (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=miranda,+new+zealand&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.66491,70.576172&ie=UTF8&ll=-36.946634,175.146704&spn=0.016086,0.034461&z=15), when heading in the northwest direction toward Clevedon.

At least, I think that's the one. The location and shape of the road look right.

It's the only seriously evil blind decreasing-radius corner I've ever come across that truly deserves such a description. It's very difficult to ride that road in that direction for the first time and not end up on the wrong side of the centerline when you hit that corner.

It's slightly uphill, dreadful shitty surface, narrow road which is often damp due to a full sky-obscuring wad of native bush covering the hill it's on.

Vicious.

[Sully60]

How about the first right hander on the cliff hanger ?

I can go through it tapped out on the SV but the thousand......

I reckon the left right combo just before the long uphill right to the finish was the most itimidating, the road drops away on the outside of the right so you can't see where the edge of the road is and someone parked a Goldwing? there so I kept looking at that stupid thing!:doh:

[Sully60]

Somewhere between Kawakawa Bay and Clevedon...


Vicious.

It would seem that is quite a corner, I must investigate next time I make it up that way.

Fit crash bungs first you reckon?

[Trudes]

Here's some helping out as I mentioned at the start.

If you're not confident about gassing and turning because of the surface, get the bike slowed down and pointed where you need it to go (so hopefully you would already be looking in that direction) this way you're free to deal with the issue and don't have to concentrate on where you need to go, carry steady throttle until you've cleared whatever it is that bothers you, then accelerate as normal from there. If you can't avoid (eliminate) the risks then minimise the risk and start over when the canvas for carving is clear.

$0.02 FWIW.

Cool, thanks Sully, will try to remember that and go out and practice it sometime.... instead of doing what I normally do.. think "ah fuck" and clench my teeth and my butt and hope for the best!:sweatdrop

[Sully60]

Cool, thanks Sully, will try to remember that and go out and practice it sometime.... instead of doing what I normally do.. think "ah fuck" and clench my teeth and my butt and hope for the best!:sweatdrop

Yeah it's just something that comes with experience, a little bit of dirt riding helps with this stuff too. Practice practice practice!

[jrandom]

It would seem that is quite a corner, I must investigate next time I make it up that way.

Fit crash bungs first you reckon?

It's a beautiful ride from Miranda to Clevedon. Absolutely worth doing on your next trip north.

Just remember, once you're bound for Clevedon and turn away from the seaside strip of road with houses on it, the corner is coming up. Hang off more than you need to, and be prepared to bang on the front brake and tip in harder, etc.

If you're thinking about it, you're sweet, but if you're just pootling and riding to what you can see and what you expect, it'll fuck you up good and proper.

Once that corner's past, you're all good to go nuts within your usual comfort zone.

(This is one post which I feel pretty sure ain't gonna get me a bollocking from boomer - you should ask him about the first time he went round [edit: I should say tried to go round] that corner...)

[Trudes]

Ohhh ridin dirty, now that I do want to try!!

[Sully60]

Ohhh ridin dirty, now that I do want to try!!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DBL2VeamtHM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DBL2VeamtHM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Like this?

[avgas]

heading just out of Waihi towards Whangamata, there is a nice wavy but long straight just after the bridge. Straight after that there is a clearly signposted 45 kph right hander which looks nice a sweaping.
The corner is quite deceptive and is almost hook like from birds eye view.
I slow to about 50k on that corner every time now. I learnt the hard way that powervalves should not be engaged mid-corner with a noob at the controls.

[MSTRS]

Yungatart's Corner...on one of the link roads joining SH30 and SH4. A decreasing radius, steepening downhill left.
Pukerimu off Kopaki...http://www.smaps.co.nz/nz/waitomo/benneydale/kopaki+road/
First view is looking back and shows how it tightens just as it steepens

[martybabe]

Nobody will know this b'stard but it's the last of a series that I call cheesy bends, sh45 between Oakura and Otako, The Naki.

Catches me out every time, I remember it, I prepare for it but every time I run wide. It starts off like all the others 45-50 advisory bend but it just keeps on tightening up.

Thing is I know it's there but every time I have to alter my line, it's like the roadies come and crank it round a couple more degrees inbetween my visits.

I will own the fker one day and ftr, I aint no racer, I'm sure the pizza delivery boy could carry a similar speed, It just feels wrong to change direction mid corner, gotta make it smoother. :rolleyes:

[vifferman]

A decreasing radius, steepening downhill left.
Now there's a point. I love uphill corners, but find that I take the same corner going downhill with much less confidence. What's the trick? Ignore the slope, and just ride the corner? Move your weight back to compensate for the slope? [insert :spudwhat: emoticodweebicon here]

[Trudes]

Like this?

That is so cool!! Love it! That'll be me when Rangi's ready to roll!!! :lol:

[MadDuck]

Just remember, once you're bound for Clevedon and turn away from the seaside strip of road with houses on it, the corner is coming up.

...and you will see the Jandal right about there :cool:

[MSTRS]

Now there's a point. I love uphill corners, but find that I take the same corner going downhill with much less confidence. What's the trick? Ignore the slope, and just ride the corner? Move your weight back to compensate for the slope? [insert :spudwhat: emoticodweebicon here]

The trick? I approach all corners well to the outside of the bend (to enable maximum sightline through the corner). When you come across one of the above bastards, unmarked like this one was, all you can do is drop your weight further to the inside and slightly throttle on. The tendency we (all?) have when taken by surprise, is to throttle off or hit the picks...the effect of this is to either remove positive tracking on the tyres (would you do a tight corner with the clutch in?) or stand the bike up meaning you are going to run wide faster.

[Number One]

Ditto - I think I've only ever got it right once.

Actually - I was thinking of the right hander on the last passing lane on the Hutt side.
Yeah same one...goes round to the right then sweeps up to the left aye....

[martybabe]

The tendency we (all?) have when taken by surprise, is to throttle off or hit the picks...the effect of this is to either remove positive tracking on the tyres (would you do a tight corner with the clutch in?) or stand the bike up meaning you are going to run wide faster.

Guilty your honour. But it gets so tight, I can't lean my lard over that far, well I can but him so scary. :clap:

[jrandom]

Now there's a point. I love uphill corners, but find that I take the same corner going downhill with much less confidence. What's the trick?

Someone should PM Robert Taylor and draw his attention to this thread for comment.

I distinctly recall reading that the physics of motorcycle suspension dictate that a bike does, in fact, have inferior handling and traction when heading downhill than it does when heading uphill.

Heck, it doesn't even need to be very complicated (ie, let's keep RT out of it, heh).

Think about it - you may not have ever tried this, but a burnout is a piece of piss to get rolling when a bike is facing downhill, but very difficult to start when the bike's facing uphill without the bike just pushing forward.

In other words, when heading uphill, you have more front traction and less rear, and when heading downhill, the reverse applies.

The implication for cornering are obvious: it's not just your imagination. The actual cornering ability of your bike when heading downhill will be worse than it is when on the flat.

One can only assume that MSTRS has never noticed this, and thinks that the problem can be solved with standard cornering advice for n00bs because he rides slowly everywhere and never does burnouts.

:msn-wink:

[MSTRS]

Someone should PM Robert Taylor and draw his attention to this thread for comment.

I distinctly recall reading that the physics of motorcycle suspension dictate that a bike does, in fact, have inferior handling and traction when heading downhill than it does when heading uphill.

Heck, it doesn't even need to be very complicated (ie, let's keep RT out of it, heh).

Think about it - you may not have ever tried this, but a burnout is a piece of piss to get rolling when a bike is facing downhill, but very difficult to start when the bike's facing uphill without the bike just pushing forward.

In other words, when heading uphill, you have more front traction and less rear, and when heading downhill, the reverse applies.

The implication for cornering are obvious: it's not just your imagination.

One can only assume that MSTRS has never noticed this, and thinks that the problem can be solved with standard cornering advice for n00bs because he rides slowly everywhere and never does burnouts.

:msn-wink:

You want to rephrase that? In fact...correct it.
I think what you are trying to say is that a bike behaves best when it's COG tends towards the rear...as it would be going uphill or accelerating. Whereas decelerate or go downhill, the weight shifts forwards of centre and loads up the front and turns the handling into something resembling a bag full of nasty stuff?
What I am saying is...more weight on the rear tyre makes the bike more controllable.

[jrandom]

You want to rephrase that? In fact...correct it.

Yeah, I was just in the process of editing it. It's a pile of bollocks, but that's what you get when I'm on my lunchbreak and writing off the top of my head.

More rear traction... less front...

Nah, I don't think it has anything to do with the price of fish, really, does it?

Sounds like we need RT in on it.

Good escape for you from my fishing expedition, though, aye?

:laugh:

[Number One]

I love uphill corners, but find that I take the same corner going downhill with much less confidence.

+1 :sunny:

Going down is scary.....

[jrandom]

Right. Brain engaged.

I stand by my point that the physics of cornering downhill genuinely reduce the bike's performance limits.

You are weighting the front, similarly to what you're doing under brakes. My downhill-burnout example makes this evident.

So it is a suspension thing - we all know that bikes steer better once they're on the gas, but going downhill makes it very difficult to get the suspension into the same state that steady acceleration achieves on the flat. Turning while going downhill equates, in a suspension-dynamics sense, to turning under brakes, with the concomitant strain on front wheel traction.

My initial attempt at an example and explanation was crap, but the point remains valid: it's not just your imagination.

:niceone:

[jrandom]

the weight shifts forwards of centre and loads up the front and turns the handling into something resembling a bag full of nasty stuff?
What I am saying is...more weight on the rear tyre makes the bike more controllable.

We're both editing away like crazy here, aren't we, trying to figure this shit out?

:laugh:

Nail on head, there, though.

I think the reason it makes the bike 'feel' worse is the way that it pushes the traction envelope of the front wheel.

Look at the difference in tyre wear between a rider who's learned to turn under hard braking, and a rider who has to get their suspension neutral before turn-in - the front tyre on the bike that's turned under brakes is always way more shredded.

[Trudes]

Does weighting the pegs and gripping with your thighs help? I find it does.

[MSTRS]

Good escape for you from my fishing expedition, though, aye?



*shakes head and spits out hook*
You will have to learn not to use barbless hooks when trying to land suitable victims.

[jrandom]

when heading uphill, you have more front traction and less rear, and when heading downhill, the reverse applies.

Y'know, I was correct - I just phrased it awkwardly.

When heading uphill at a steady pace, compared to being on the flat you're using more of the available traction of the rear tyre, and less of the front.

So you 'have more front traction available'.

When heading downhill at a steady pace, compared to being on the flat you're using more of the available traction of the front tyre, and less of the rear.

So you 'have more rear traction available'.

And front traction is what counts when it comes to getting around corners, so going downhill is the worst possible situation.

[jrandom]

You will have to learn not to use barbless hooks when trying to land suitable victims.

Or at least not to bait hooks with posts that are unintelligible bollocks!

[Number One]

I wouldn't like to have Number One try that on me.

:crazy:
:lol: you know you WOULD! ANyway I'm very selective about who I crush between my thighs...Trudes and Sully are my favs...

EDIT: NOT necessarily in that order

[jrandom]

:lol: you know you WOULD!

I hate it when people jump on posts and reply before I delete them.

[MSTRS]

Going down is scary..... *must resist*


Does weighting the pegs and gripping with your thighs help? I find it does.

NOOOO!!!! Weighting the pegs allows the bike's suspension to work properly, and it also lowers the COG. In fact, more heavily weight the OUTSIDE peg for best control and stability. I showed this technique to Chanccey and she lifted her game very noticably.

[Number One]

I hate it when people jump on posts and reply before I delete them.
mwah hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa

I'm bored and stuck inside at home sick...I got NOTHING better to get up to

[Trudes]

*must resist*



NOOOO!!!! Weighting the pegs allows the bike's suspension to work properly, and it also lowers the COG. In fact, more heavily weight the OUTSIDE peg for best control and stability. I showed this technique to Chanccey and she lifted her game very noticably.

So I should weight the pegs? Well, the outside peg when cornering, but both if I'm just riding down a hill? I practice doing this anyway, so just continue with what I'm doing? And being an ex horse rider I instinctively tend to lean back a little too... right or wrong?

[Number One]

So I should weight the pegs? Well, the outside peg when cornering, but both if I'm just riding down a hill? I practice doing this anyway, so just continue with what I'm doing? And being an ex horse rider I instinctively tend to lean back a little too... right or wrong?
oo you so serious and studious...I luff you :love:

[MSTRS]

So I should weight the pegs? Well, the outside peg when cornering, but both if I'm just riding down a hill? I practice doing this anyway, so just continue with what I'm doing? And being an ex horse rider I instinctively tend to lean back a little too... right or wrong?

Try riding in a straight line and sort of tense your thighs slightly as you would if you were going to stand up. That will put even weight on the pegs. It has the effect of taking some weight off the swingarm allowing the rear shock to work better. It also lets you move about a bit as well, since your bum is no longer holding all your weight. Following?

[Trudes]

Try riding in a straight line and sort of tense your thighs slightly as you would if you were going to stand up. That will put even weight on the pegs. It has the effect of taking some weight off the swingarm allowing the rear shock to work better. It also lets you move about a bit as well, since your bum is no longer holding all your weight. Following?

Always following. Cheers.

[HenryDorsetCase]

think of a jockey on a racehorse.

having said that it gets a bit tiring after say 6 or 8 laps.

[Trudes]

Hovering the arse above the seat, good for the thigh muscles!!!

[Lissa]

Every corner on the Rimutakas is my nemesis. I really cant remember the last time I was on the hill, its been such a long time. If I had to choose it would be any of the corners going down, but really I havent had too many scary moments on a corner yet, only had a small off on a straight. :Pokey:

[Number One]

THIGHS..........:drool:

[MSTRS]

Always following. Cheers.

Listen up and you may find that changes....
Now, when you've practised that a bit, try doing through a series of corners (gentle ones are good...you are trying to reprogram your conditioned responses).
Once you have that feeling comfy, try decreasing the weight on the inside peg (or increasing on the outside). You should be feeling the bike move a little under you and it will feel more 'stable' somehow. This is good. Once that feels natural, you can get a little faster (or move to practising on tighter corners). Then you want to start moving your body over a little to the inside of the corner, whilst still keeping a little more weight on the outside peg. It does take practice and will feel odd for a start.
Everyone develops their own 'style' but in general I think cornering technique is best served by using your body weight to assist the bike turning. Afterall, you are a part of the total package and weight distribution is one of the skills you need to learn to have more effective control. It's the fine tuning like which peg to weight and whether to lean forward or shift back etc that will lead to more enjoyable riding. Probably safer too, since you will have more control, and you will be riding at (say) 60% instead of 80% for the same result.
Capische?

[Trudes]

Thanks MSTRS.:sunny:
I've been practicing this for a little while now, but get a lot of conflicting things told to me about whether I should shift my bum off the side of the seat or doing what I find comes more naturally which is more of an upper body/shoulder leaning into the corner, basically the "kissing your inside mirror".
More practice is needed and the bucket racing is definitely helping me to try different things, but the peg weighting is starting to become second nature which is good, and definitely makes a huge difference to stabilising the bike.
Always keen to learn new things to help me survive!!

[MSTRS]

Thanks MSTRS.:sunny:
I've been practicing this for a little while now, but get a lot of conflicting things told to me about whether I should shift my bum off the side of the seat or doing what I find comes more naturally which is more of an upper body/shoulder leaning into the corner, basically the "kissing your inside mirror".
More practice is needed and the bucket racing is definitely helping me to try different things, but the peg weighting is starting to become second nature which is good, and definitely makes a huge difference to stabilising the bike.
Always keen to learn new things to help me survive!!

Better to shift your shoulders and upper body towards the inside of the corner (kissing the mirror). If you shift your bum sideways, then you must shift your shoulders and upper body more than you've shifted your bum. You could look upon this as being the part of your bike/body that is leaned over the furtherest is the pivot point and the pivot point is most effective at the top...your tyres being at the bottom.

[vifferman]

When heading uphill at a steady pace, compared to being on the flat you're using more of the available traction of the rear tyre, and less of the front.

So you 'have more front traction available'.

When heading downhill at a steady pace, compared to being on the flat you're using more of the available traction of the front tyre, and less of the rear.

So you 'have more rear traction available'.

And front traction is what counts when it comes to getting around corners, so going downhill is the worst possible situation.
That's not the whole story though, is it?
You're also compressing the forks and thereby effectively making the rake steeper and quickening up the steering - like you do when you brake immediately before you tip in. But conversely, you're also making the steering heavier, because of the extra weight on the front end. As you take the corner, the forks are going to extend again, changing the handling much more than when you take an uphill corner, where there's less weight transfer and less fork length change happening, so less of an unsettling effect happening.
There's also the matter of leaning on the bars, which can't be good.
I can't help wondering though whether a lot of the downhill vs. uphill thing is largely psychological (like in skiing when you finally go :slap:, realise that the whole idea IS to go down hill, not try to slow yourself down, and stop braking and start leaning downhill (instead of uphill) and the weight balance comes right). In the case of motorcycling though, I suspect some throttle /weight-shifting is required to get more weight on the back of the bike, compared to either uphill or on the flat.

[Grub]

Rimutaka Hill road. Last passing lane on the Southside going up to the top. Right hand corner up a kink and rise!

Is it this corner (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1297044&postcount=2) or the one before it where the passing lane is ... I agree, a vicious little number.

[Number One]

Is it this corner (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1297044&postcount=2) or the one before it where the passing lane is ... I agree, a vicious little number.
OO that's a nasty place to crash...no my corner is the one with the passing lane and huge run off area (one just back) there's a good reason why that run off is there......

[Grub]

Eww yeah, Piecock Hill road, heading back to Pahatanui, about half way along there is a blind right hander that has some really yucky patching I think it is right on the apex

Yep that one is a bytch ... it's a telecom pipe they layed and no, you can't power your way through it ... it's a Mark I Nana corner that one. Anything else is grief material.

[Deano]

Conversely - I simply lurve the last passing lane on the south side heading up hill - left hander into the passing lane, then switch into the right hander using both lanes. It's very fast....I mean smooth. ;)

[Grub]

Does gripping with your thighs help? I find it does.

Oh yes it does, but we're talking about riding bikes right now.

[Grub]

Better to shift your shoulders and upper body towards the inside of the corner (kissing the mirror). If you shift your bum sideways, then you must shift your shoulders and upper body more than you've shifted your bum. You could look upon this as being the part of your bike/body that is leaned over the furtherest is the pivot point and the pivot point is most effective at the top...your tyres being at the bottom.

GASP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're talking about Bum Steering ... if you weren't so fuggly I'd kiss you.

[MSTRS]

GASP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're talking about Bum Steering ... if you weren't so fuggly I'd kiss you.

:slap:Oh no you don't. There is no such thing. I thought we'd managed to dispel that ugly myth. I will admit that weight transference has an important role in how well/fast one can corner on a bike, but I'll growl at you (again) if you try to suggest it is a valid steering method all by itself. :whistle:

[MSTRS]

Back to the thread purpose...corners that give one the shits.
Perhaps we could have suggestions on how to take particular corners that will be known to many, yet upset some. That way, we may remember these mongrels and how to deal with if/when we ride them sometime?

[quallman1234]

The RG can be a hell of a lot quicker than bigger bikes on corners. It'll blitz anything on Blue Mountains hill road.

Its true you know!, i lapped everyone in medium / hard at a recent taupo day, except for a motard and a busa.

There's only really one for me, thats on piecock going up the hill heading towards pram, looks like a 90 degree left hander coming up to it, i hate it ive been wide a couple of times there.
Also that patch left hairpin is a pain in the arse but you just slow down for it.
Oh and the last actual corner on the waniu coast road, off camber and tight usually with peebles floating around.

The last two don't really bother me because i just slow down, but you enter the first one i mentioned quite quickly and realise its a bit more of a corner!

[Toaster]

No idea of the name of my nemesis corner, but it was a back road in the Waikato with a suicidal goat on it.

[Mom]

There is a left hand, uphill corner, heading towards Mangawhai from SH1, posted 45, the turnoff from it is Te Arai. I used to fight to get around that corner everytime. Too high a gear and you are over the centre line in a flash as it turns in a bit on itself, too low and you feel you are about to be spat off over the bars. I believe it is a corner that Zed managed to come to grief on a few years ago. He used to refer to it as Zeds corner.

I remember the first time I managed to get round there in the right gear, with the right amount of engine speed and the wonderful countersteer happening just how it needed to! Fantastic feeling. It is a corner that I always give extra thought to, and still get the same buzz now as I get round it.

[The Stranger]

The one that gets me is on Peak road an easy 65kph up hill right hander.
Only thing "wrong" with it is limited visibility, but no more so than hundreds of others. Buggered if I know why it gives me the willies? It should be a fast corner - and it is for most people.

[bistard]

Alright we probably all have that one corner that we just don't like.

You might have crashed on this corner or had a scary moment. You might have never felt like you've got it right or worse still you've been carved up by an old geezer on a GN250 with a Pro helmet and yellow PVC wet weather gear:mad:

Where ever it may be (road, track, dirt) tell us of your nemesis corner and tell us why you don't like it, you never know someone might have had the same experience and may be able to help you out.

Mine doesn't exsist anymore, the old hairpin (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/picture.php?albumid=48&pictureid=6206) at Centennial Park Taupo


I think I got this corner right twice on the whole three seasons I raced there and I definately crashed there three times, all for the same reason. It was just so enticing to get on the gas, hard, early to beat the racer next to you to the right hander. This always ended in scuffed leathers and a bent gear lever and on one occasion a stalled YZ426F that didn't start for the remainder of the race:doh:


So share your experience and tell us all what is you nemesis corner!

Sully,that old guy in the yellow PVC & PRO helmet,was actually riding a Honda Spada 250 & it was Murray McGloughlin,you fool!!
By the way,I got "Gripped " a few weeks ago,I wonder how that happend


EXPECT IT WHEN YOU LEAST EXPECT IT



Bwahahaha

[Sully60]

Sully,that old guy in the yellow PVC & PRO helmet,was actually riding a Honda Spada 250 & it was Murray McGloughlin,you fool!!
And it was the most boring carve up of all time:yawn:




By the way,I got "Gripped " a few weeks ago,I wonder how that happend







I deny having knowledge of this particular event, but I do know where you live:devil2:

[bistard]

And it was the most boring carve up of all time:yawn:




I deny having knowledge of this particular event, but I do know where you live:devil2:


Very good retort my friend!!

By the way I hear he has purchased a Hornet 900

[Mom]

By the way,I got "Gripped " a few weeks ago,I wonder how that happend
EXPECT IT WHEN YOU LEAST EXPECT IT
Bwahahaha


Getting "gripped" sounds dangerous, hope it never happens to me :shit:.

[steved]

The first righthander on the series of downhill twisties heading into Kawakawa bay... Downhill off-camber and tightening mid corner. Haven't binned, it just seems to always catch me slightly too fast.
Me too. This was my first bin corner going down-hill. Always watchful going around this one now. They have made it smoother which helps though.

[Mom]

The one that gets me is on Peak road an easy 65kph up hill right hander.
Only thing "wrong" with it is limited visibility, but no more so than hundreds of others. Buggered if I know why it gives me the willies? It should be a fast corner - and it is for most people.

Your limited visbility comment interests me. There is a slight curve, cant really be called a corner on Waitietie Road that you should never have to slow for. Problem is it is on the crest of a hill and you lose sight of the road totally on approach. Even knowing the road you cant help but hesitate as you cant "see" where it goes, even though you know where it goes.

[The Stranger]

Your limited visbility comment interests me. There is a slight curve, cant really be called a corner on Waitietie Road that you should never have to slow for. Problem is it is on the crest of a hill and you lose sight of the road totally on approach. Even knowing the road you cant help but hesitate as you cant "see" where it goes, even though you know where it goes.

To borrow from Littleman - No one expects a shipping container just around the corner or over the brow - but every so often there is.
That said, cresting corners are wicked. Right hander on Clive rd going from Mountain rd to Normanby rd in Mt Eden is one of my favourites. From the other direction it's great too as the whole bike will pick up and move sideways on you mid corner as you crest whilst leant over. We need more corners like this!

[tate35]

Interesting! I have'nt rode enough yet to come across a corner that I do'nt like...guess I have this to come :shit:

[nadroj]

Yungatart's Corner...on one of the link roads joining SH30 and SH4. A decreasing radius, steepening downhill left.
Pukerimu off Kopaki...http://www.smaps.co.nz/nz/waitomo/benneydale/kopaki+road/
First view is looking back and shows how it tightens just as it steepens

And now with signage!

[Mikkel]

Any figurative corner I can't cut.

Any corner with grit.


On my daily commute I have two nasty down hill corners that are both off-camber and suffer from poor road surface. Interesting in the rain and they don't invite pushing at all.

[MVnut]

And now with signage!

A downhill decreasing radius hook.....one of my favourites. But honestly tho, there's no such thing as a Nemesis Corner, it's all in your mind:bash:

[Grub]

:slap:Oh no you don't. There is no such thing. I thought we'd managed to dispel that ugly myth. I will admit that weight transference has an important role in how well/fast one can corner on a bike, but I'll growl at you (again) if you try to suggest it is a valid steering method all by itself. :whistle:

My whinge was that I had been misunderstood. Don't want to hijack the thread but will just clear this up once and for all (I hope). My dissertation that I called "The Bum Steer" was never to say that weight transferrence on its own was a valid steering method. In the same way I was trying to say neither is just countersteering.

The concept of the 'Bum Steer" was to alert people to the way weight transferrence can be felt - through the bum cheek. Simple as that.

So guess what .... we are totally, 100% agreed on everything!

[celticbhoy]

Oh and the last actual corner on the waniu coast road, off camber and tight usually with peebles floating around.


Yep first time came across this it shit me cos although it is signposted as 25km corner you have just gone through a heap of other corners well above the posted speed suggestion then hit this sharp off camber one and you get the first look at the sea as you look to avoid the other side of the road! Now just slow down nearer posted speed. ha

[Patch]

Somewhere between Kawakawa Bay and Clevedon...

Right here (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=miranda,+new+zealand&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.66491,70.576172&ie=UTF8&ll=-36.946634,175.146704&spn=0.016086,0.034461&z=15), when heading in the northwest direction toward Clevedon.

At least, I think that's the one. The location and shape of the road look right.

It's the only seriously evil blind decreasing-radius corner I've ever come across that truly deserves such a description. It's very difficult to ride that road in that direction for the first time and not end up on the wrong side of the centerline when you hit that corner.

It's slightly uphill, dreadful shitty surface, narrow road which is often damp due to a full sky-obscuring wad of native bush covering the hill it's on.

Vicious.
This is quite a good corner, can catch you out if your not quite with it. Not as bad as it sounds tho.

[nico]

Rimutaka Hill road. Last passing lane on the Southside going up to the top. Right hand corner up a kink and rise.

Spun the car out on it and had my first and only bin on a bike on it too.

It's a great corner and it feels cool to do BUT I'm useless at it!

tep this would be my pick of bastard corners too or am i just ussless aswell?> probaly:headbang:

[jrandom]

Not as bad as it sounds tho.

That's true.

Be worse if it was downhill.

[Sully60]

A downhill decreasing radius hook.....one of my favourites. But honestly tho, there's no such thing as a Nemesis Corner, it's all in your mind:bash:

It was more a reference to challenging corners or why certain corners are challenging. Nemesis is a term that all will know despite it's incorrect use in modern times, I mean how can some ancient Greek sheila exact vengance on you via a corner?

Haven't heard from any dirty bike riders, now they have some challenging stuff.
Anybody done the Zig Zag on Long Gully station?
How the fuck do you get around those hairpins?:shit:

[Sully60]

That's true.

Be worse if it was downhill.

That particular corner downhill is quite challenging to get right as you are braking and changing direction at the same time then apexing and starting to drive before you can really see the exit, one of the best corners for downhill powerslides or so I've been told:whistle:

[MSTRS]

Your limited visbility comment interests me. There is a slight curve, cant really be called a corner on Waitietie Road that you should never have to slow for. Problem is it is on the crest of a hill and you lose sight of the road totally on approach. Even knowing the road you cant help but hesitate as you cant "see" where it goes, even though you know where it goes.There's shitloads of this sort of corner around the place. On our trip up north last Xmas, DMNTD warned us of the one when you come to the top overlooking the Hokianga harbour entrance. Was he ever right!!! The sudden view takes nearly all your attention just as the road jinks sharply to the left.


And now with signage!

Yep...cos I wrote to the South Waikato council in Te Kuiti to complain and warn about this bastard corner. They agreed.

[Patch]

That's true.

Be worse if it was downhill.
it is an off-camber (depending which erection u came from, if it is the same corner to which I think u r referring too)


u should man up lad an learn to ride tho - there r much worse roads out there.

[jrandom]

it is an off-camber (depending which erection u came from, if it is the same corner to which I think u r referring too)

I'm sure we're thinking of the same one.


u should man up lad an learn to ride tho

I'm doing so, one trackday and one weekend at a time, only had my full licence for a year, y'know.

:sunny:


there r much worse roads out there.

I look forward to sampling them!