Can Off Road helmets used on tarmac? [Archive]

Coldkiwi

14th January 2005, 15:52

Thinking about a new helmet following my little dingle at Pukekohe and I'm wondering whether an off road style helmet would be as good as a full face helmet for city type riding and a bit of twisty back roads. I'm intending to slow down a bit (thats another story) so I don't plan to put it over 150kmhr (ie. massive drag resistance isn't really an issue) but I'm struggling to find any info on whether a dirt lid can cut the mustard in a 100kmhr tarmac crash situation given that most dirt bikes never get that fast.

But while I'm asking, how badly will an off road helmet get blown about at highway speeds?

Anyone seen any info on this?

k14

14th January 2005, 19:12

why would you want to use a motox helmet in the first place?

Hitcher

14th January 2005, 19:34

The Road Code says you must wear a secure approved helmet, or somesuch. I guess bicycle helmets (joke that they are) are a no no, but anything else should be OK...

Jantar

14th January 2005, 19:52

DEATH_INC.

14th January 2005, 19:57

Yeah,I sorta wondering why too......
They're ok but you always get rain stinging you between your goggles and the facepeice and the peak will try to rip your head off if you look up at speed...
btw I had an 250XC KTM that topped out at around 160......offroad too

Kickaha

14th January 2005, 20:00

Going by the fact most of the Motard riders that race use them I would say they pass the current standard to be used for road racing so in a crash situation should provide adequate protection

Motu

14th January 2005, 20:01

I got a Fly 303 MX helmet for Xmas,and I love it!My road helmet is a Nolan N70,the adventure helmet with peak,I don't want to wear it again after an off road helmet.It's just so light,and even with Scott goggles the visibility is superior to a road helmet,ventilation all around the face of course,and on a hot day you can feel it over your head,I can wear my Alpine ear plugs for 10hrs straight with no pain - there is much more freedom around the ears.The peak doesn't adjust down far enough and at 100kph and above I have to tuck my head,just a little - I sit upright on a dirt bike,if you lean forward it would be better,get's knocked around in wind as well,but not as bad as my last dirt helmet,must be because it's lighter with a sharper chin peice.Only problem is I must remember to sun screen my nose,the tip is exposed and takes a beating.

Blakamin

14th January 2005, 20:04

but I'm struggling to find any info on whether a dirt lid can cut the mustard in a 100kmhr tarmac crash situation given that most dirt bikes never get that fast.

Only if ya dont want a head.... :bye:
the bottom of an MX sticks out too far for my liking and would have a tendency to get torn off (with ya head) if it stuck to the road... they plough dirt good tho!! :niceone: (fuckin stupid "dirt in mouth" bits)

avgas

14th January 2005, 20:27

I used to ride every now n then with a motoX helmet, during cafe races.
But DO NOT WEAR IN THE RAIN, HEAVY RAIN AT 60+KPH STINGS LIKE STONES

TwoSeven

14th January 2005, 22:04

Going by the fact most of the Motard riders that race use them I would say they pass the current standard to be used for road racing so in a crash situation should provide adequate protection

Yes, but I think the motard folks should be stopped using them if they are racing only on track - which is whats done here. Proper motard is mostly on dirt and the speeds are not as high.

The basic rule is that the faster you can go, the more serious a lid you should be using. Dirt bike lids are not designed for high speed crashes and its quite common for the straps to break on them in road crashes - you'd think a strap was a strap but apparently they use a different standard.

Having said all that when I commute in town I ride with a half face lid. But then I have push bike riders wearing nothing but tights and plastic buckets overtaking me :)

Jackrat

14th January 2005, 22:30

I've worn a dirt helmet on the road an found it ok.
Rain doesn't cause me many problems even with an open face until I'm over legal speeds,hails another story altogeather.
My XR could do well over 100kms on the beach and one thing that did always concern me was possility of the chin catching an braking my neck.
It's a compromise thing,they are legal,they are comfortable,BUT, the choise is yours.
Oh yeah, an your gonn'a look a right prat on your sort of bike with a dirt lid.

Kickaha

14th January 2005, 22:30

Yes, but I think the motard folks should be stopped using them if they are racing only on track - which is whats done here. Proper motard is mostly on dirt and the speeds are not as high.

The basic rule is that the faster you can go, the more serious a lid you should be using. Dirt bike lids are not designed for high speed crashes and its quite common for the straps to break on them in road crashes - you'd think a strap was a strap but apparently they use a different standard.

They may be built to a different standard but they obviously comply with whatever the roadracing rules require and that would mean they are quite capable of withstanding a tarmac crash at speed,helmets are checked at sign in(at MC Canterbury at least) and if your helmet doesn't have the required standard you don't get to race in it

Having just checked three helmets,2 on road and one off road and they all have the same standard marks

Haven't ever heard of helmets straps breaking before,apart from hearsay,do you have a source?

TwoSeven

15th January 2005, 09:13

I've seen two lid straps break during race crashes both were the mx style. My old FM race lid had a d-link type connector that was required in the UK at the time. Newer lids have those little plastic clip locks. It was these that broke.

The other one that happens quite a lot is said lid coming off rider. Although I've never seen it on a race track I've seen it on a dirt track once and just recently at the cemetry racing. This is not to say it doesnt happen with road lids (I suspect the cheap $100 lids probably live up to their costs).

Speaking of which, does anyone know if FM have an outlet in NZ. Their race lids are excelent. I can only find those cheap ass FFM things here.

k14

15th January 2005, 10:06

As far as i know you aren't allowed clip type strap helmets for racing over here either. They all have to be double d rings.

merv

15th January 2005, 10:25

Motu interestingly your comments about the N70, ear space in your MX helmet etc prompts me to make a comment. Every time I've looked for a new helmet I've checked out Nolans of one sort of another and I've always ended up buying HJC helmets instead. Why? Well the Nolans never seem to have any proper pocket for your ears to sit in so to speak and they would tend to flatten the sides of my head which would lead to headaches. The HJC on the other hand always have very comfortable padded edged pockets where my ears comfortably fit. So I have an FG9 road helmet an FG3 open face and a CSXII MX helmet. Must be my fat head but HJC seem to make helmets that fit me best.

Motu

15th January 2005, 12:01

Uh oh,I've stuffed up your post Merv - I edited it for my reply,but being in mod mode I edited your original post,maybe it is something with this temp server,there was some wierd stuff going on then - the page binked like a cat's eye and the background colour changed.

Kickaha

15th January 2005, 12:32

As far as i know you aren't allowed clip type strap helmets for racing over here either. They all have to be double d rings.

Any type of strap is allowed,as long as the Helmet has the correct standard on it,I've used Laser helmets for years and they have clip type straps

If a helmet comes off,then I would say it either wasn't done up properly or it wasn't the correct fitment for the riders head and in all the time I have been racing or road riding I have seen it happen once and that was because the helmet(with D Ring) wasn't done up properly

merv

15th January 2005, 13:59

Blakamin

15th January 2005, 16:34

Any type of strap is allowed,as long as the Helmet has the correct standard on it,I've used Laser helmets for years and they have clip type straps

hmmnm... I'd heard "D ring" helmets were the only type allowed too....cant remember where tho....

Skunk

15th January 2005, 17:38

I agree with most comments here. I'd say that a Motocross style is fine if ya speeds are under 120ish... :doctor:

I only have double D ring helmets btw :spudbooge

Motu

15th January 2005, 18:33

Yeah,but you don't post anything worth reading anyway Merv - welcome to the power of your new moderator...it's like giving a 9 yr old an AK47! I had a mad panic when I saw what I'd done and tried to fix it but had to race off out,now I'm back and gone straight away again....

NordieBoy

15th January 2005, 19:21

Yes, but I think the motard folks should be stopped using them if they are racing only on track - which is whats done here. Proper motard is mostly on dirt and the speeds are not as high.
Proper Motard is 30% dirt 70% road.
They try and keep the max speeds down to 160kph or so.

The basic rule is that the faster you can go, the more serious a lid you should be using. Dirt bike lids are not designed for high speed crashes and its quite common for the straps to break on them in road crashes - you'd think a strap was a strap but apparently they use a different standard.
Same standard - same straps.

I use a MX lid all the time.
I get neck problems/headaches from road lids as the visor is catching more wind and putting more pressure on my neck (I'm sitting upright and not leaned forward like the angles the helmet is designed to work at).
The MX lid is lighter and has the peak (hole filed out - Motu) dropped a bit which keeps it basically neutral at 100kph and keeps the sun off nicely.
Speed? Not a problem as I don't go above 120kph unless in an emergency.

My chiropractor can tell which helmet I've been wearing that day.

laRIKin

16th January 2005, 21:44

Well I ride on the road with a MX hemet on my 640 LC4 with goggles and a nose piece and have had no problem.
And use to do it (and mates) on the old XT500 when I had it.(years ago)
I do this when I ride to the river and then ride up tracks and roads.
And as for the MX helmets not being good for speed, what speeds do you think that the desert races do.(160+ KPH)
Or up Pikes Peak or at our own Gold Rush.
I think the helmet's are up to a good knock.
If you tip the peak down it not a real problem at speed, that is cruising a 100- 120KPH.
If anything the goggles press real hard in to your face.
And sometimes I use a road helmet, like today as after yesterdays ride in 32degs heat, do 140k's going though dirt track and rivers and gravel road and some tarseal riding, it stinks.

clint640

17th January 2005, 10:01

I use both - the MX (Fly 606) is great for trail rides, 'round town & quick blasts, especially on a hot day, but is bloody noisy and gets buffeted a bit at highway pace. The road lid (KBC TK8) gets used for any trip over about 30km.

I'm with ya on the Nolan helmets having no ear room Merv, I got the local shop to get me in one of their dualsport helmets, It looked good, the price was right, but it was totally uncomfortable.

Cheers
Clint

Wellyman

17th January 2005, 11:20

In my opinion it should be legal for motard racers to use a dirt lid but it should be illegal for road users due to safety risks.

Coldkiwi

17th January 2005, 11:22

sweet as guys, thanks for the input. I had a look at a couple of Shark lids at Mt Eden (one MXR off road and the RSF2 on road) and the Motox style is definitely lighter so that would be a plus.

The real reason I'm looking at them is because I'm planning to move away from the supersport bikes (I agree with ya there Jackrat, Motox lid + GSXR = nonce) altogether but I'm still planning to do 100% road riding.

Anyone have problems with nasty sweaty bands from the goggles in hot weather?

laRIKin

17th January 2005, 18:45

BOTH of my helmets have the SAME grade safety stickers on them.
TWO stickers on both helmets.
And my partners helmets have the same stickers and so do our old helmets.

So they are BOTH been tested to the SAME level.
And pass two independent testers, in different countries.

I could road race or MX or SX or want ever in EITHER.
In NZ, Ozzy Europe and a lot of other countries

So they are BOTH safe to use.

Why do some of you guys still think they are not safe?

:brick: :brick:

<rant mode off>

I give up. Have a nice day

laRIKin

17th January 2005, 19:02

Anyone have problems with nasty sweaty bands from the goggles in hot weather?

If I under stand you correctly. Not really. unless you are working hard on
the bike (MX or trail riding when it's warm).
Road riding, no problems at all.
But maybe on a real hot day around town.

If you want to stop fogging I remove the foam rubber from the vents.
Both top and bottom.
If you are road riding or trail riding you will find it OK.
Properly better as you will not fog up when you stop or going slow, after you have been working hard.
If I was to do MX again on a dusty day I would leave the foam in place.
I have 3 pairs of goggles so it's not a problem for me.
OK I'll explain why, one got rolloffs and ones got tearoffs.
And my old pair has no foam, which I now use all the time.
So it was a waste of money buy new ones when the foam got buggered.

Coldkiwi

18th January 2005, 13:02

I could road race or MX or SX or want ever in EITHER.
In NZ, Ozzy Europe and a lot of other countries

So they are BOTH safe to use.

Why do some of you guys still think they are not safe?

my question was more 'suitable' rather than 'safe' I guess. You are aware that neither helmet would've been tested on a chin impact basis? But they are clearly different designs so obviously a particular safety rating in the chin area wasn't the controlling factor.

If they are both done to the same penetration and crush test standard and they're comfy enough for highway use with goggles, I'll probably look seriously at them!
cheers

Beemer

30th June 2005, 12:49

I'm with Clint, Merv and Motu on the Nolan helmets. I've got an N70E and it would have to be the most uncomfortable helmet I've ever worn after an hour or so. It was on special and I took it for a ride and found it really good - but on a ride longer than an hour, it is torture! And it can't be because we've all got fat heads because I take an XXS in helmets!

We've done everything we can to try and make it fit better, but it still feels like someone is pressing just under my ears. I wore it on our two week South Island trip and some days we'd be riding for hours - I couldn't wait to get off the bike each night and get some relief. The peak is great for low sunlight and there is more ventilation than in a normal full-face helmet, but it has certainly not inspired me to ever buy another Nolan helmet.

I can wear my Shoei all day without any problems and that's what I expect from a helmet.

Motu

30th June 2005, 13:38

I'm happy with the N70,it's just the ear thing...and that only when I wear ear plugs,which should be all the time eh? I might have a look at it and see if I can hollow it out around the ear 'ole part,just to take some pressure off that area.With my MX helmet and ear plugs in I can hear my phone ring,which freaked me out when I first heard it on some lonely back road....so a lot more ''input'' when wearing a dirt helmet,more in contact with your surroundings.