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James Deuce
6th August 2008, 19:19
Still reeling from WW1, the world's major "powers" signed the 1922 Washington Treaty in the hope of limiting the naval arms race that had characterised the build up to WW1. This limited the total tonnage, armament, propulsion, and fuel capacity of different types of Capital warships and resulted in strangely stunted Battleships and Aircraft Carriers.

One such vessel that complied with the Washington Treaty was HMS Nelson.
<img src=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/HMS_Nelson_%281931%29_profile_drawing.png/300px-HMS_Nelson_%281931%29_profile_drawing.png>

Forcing engineers to comply with limitations tends to imply permission to innovate your arse off, leading to clever ideas like using boiler water storage tanks as a kind of protective crush zone to supplement armour, and inert gas for fire control in the magazines of those massive main armament turrets, each sporting three 16in guns.

Harley Davidson found itself in a similar position to the "Great Powers" of the early '20s, sixty years later. After being put in their place by British motorcycles during the '50s and '60s (In terms of sales you understand. One does not want to intentionally inflame the faithful), and the Japanese in the '70s, and having to weather the AMF years (which some people are now convinced actually did more good than harm in retrospect) as well as a cash poor period during the Management buy out of the early '80s, Harley Davidson looked about as secure an investment as the German Mark of 1922. Not very, that is.

Rather unlike British Naval engineers of the post-WW1 era, Harley decided to stick to it's damn knitting. A decade of producing the same sort of motorcycle in the 70's had entrenched Harley in the public's mind as a manufacturer with "tradition", so Evolution became a byword at Harley. In fact it was practically the ONLY word.

"Battleships", you say?

"Harley Davidson?"

"I'm not with you."

Bear with me. My Paternal Grandmother married a bloke, who for me, is the epitome of what a brave man is. He served on the Nelson. After serving in the Merchant Navy from the age of 15 with the Empress line, just so he had somewhere to live, and something to eat (The Great Depression was worse than anything you can imagine), as well as running freight to the South of Spain during their Civil War of the mid-'30s and seeing the appalling depredations of war up close, he joined the RN as a Petty Officer in 1939, and his training as a Steward was extended to running the Galley on the Nelson and acting as the Fire Control chief for the "X" turret magazine. This involved two blokes, one on the outside of the magazine who locked the other (the bloke whom my Grandmother married) inside, so that the bloke inside could kill himself by releasing several 1000 lbs (archaic measurement there kids) of Halon gas, effectively removing oxygen from the atmosphere of the magazine. He'd die of course, however the ship was more important than the individual.

Harley did something similar, in that they suppressed the natural tendency of their engineers to innovate in an extrovert fashion, and instead of the world's fastest sportsbikes, best tourers, best Police bikes, the engineers had to refine a tradition. The innovation came from improving reliability, reducing mass but maintaining the impression of massiveness, and trademarking the "potato potato" sound. The individual's desire to shine was suppressed for the greater Corporate good. The trade tariffs, of '83 limited Japanese bikes to 700cc, tiddlers compared to 883, 1200, and 1340cc engines, and made them just a little more expensive than the "big" Harleys.

But there's always one weirdo, often patriotic, some would say Quixotic, who would rather that Harley had a broad range of bikes, including Sports bikes, and spent 20 years yelling "Look at me!" at Harley Davidson until they paid attention.

They bought the company and the innovation that went with it. Now we, us lucky little people, get two distinct lines of motorcycles from the Motor Company, each with their own expression of personality. And like the Nelson the TT manages to look stunted and "massive" at the same time.

<img src=http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/albums/thumbs/6/932a7821dcb572d00dca1395d3d331c0_6625.jpg?dl=12180 07410> (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/picture.php?albumid=685&pictureid=6625)

Personally, I'm sick of Motorcycle Magazines, especially English ones, largely bagging Buells as pointless, slow, and contradictory. I haven't ridden a Buell yet that hasn't taught me something new about my riding, or how to learn about riding a new and different motorcycle, or how to have Fun.

The TT really reminds me of a friend's 1970 Triumph TR6A (the bike you dunderheads), but it has brakes, suspension, and (joy) an electric start! Yes the engine vibrates, but could this be at the core of the dimly understood "character" that so many motorcyclists gaily throw into conversations about bikes, without having a clear definition in mind? Over 3000rpm and the engine smooths out until it hits its (very) abrupt rev limiter, but it has enough go to be entertaining with no scary bits! Very important that. I'm old and sick of staring Death in the eye. Over it.

This is a motorcycle that YOU ride, very much like that TR6A, and you can chose your own pace without suffering from imposter syndrome. You can chose many different sorts of roads too. It's not solely a sportsbike, a motard, or an adventure bike, but it will do all those if you want it to. The long travel suspension on the TT is brilliant on rough tarmac and gravel and shod with the right rubber, as it is in this case, takes surface changes in its stride, along with the odd slip, tree, or 30cm deep stream. Even a beach covered in 1kg "pebbles". I've encountered Pirelli Scorpion Syncs once before on an Aprilia Pegaso Trail, and they have to be, in my limited experience, one of the better "all-terrain" tyres available for a bike.

<img src=http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/albums/thumbs/6/0fdc880d9f6a3186ba0b197d364b51f7_6627.jpg?dl=12180 07410> (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/picture.php?albumid=685&pictureid=6627)

If you attempt to passively experience a Buell you've missed the point. For many people the "lack" of outright performance is a killer, for some the innovation of the Fuel in Frame idea, and the rim mounted front brake is just too weird, but they all work really well. There was a stoppie welling up at every intersection, and a power slide on every bit of loose gravel in a corner. The gearbox isn't slow or balky at all, you just have to tell it who is boss. It has definitely improved from the XB9S to the XB12TT, losing the big clunks between gears and the excessively heavy boot needed to select a gear.

It's tall. Those under 165cm should probably look at an XB9 or 12S. I'm 177cm if I stand up straight and I had to slide off the seat a little to get a foot flat. The seat could get a little firm after a couple of hours in the saddle, and despite having no pillion pegs the "solo" seat is still longer than a modern Speed Triple's seat. Add $650 and you can get a longer seat and pillion pegs. I'd rather spend $650 on a Ventura rack and getting the seat recovered. Then you'd have a do anything, anytime bike. You may not get there first but you won't have to go home and get the car, trailer, and the CRF or KLX to do those gravel roads.

<img src=http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/albums/thumbs/6/14c3dd82e66475737e6e5ba9484cd7d2_6628.jpg?dl=12180 07410> (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/picture.php?albumid=685&pictureid=6628)
The steering lock is good enough for a feet up U-Turn from this position

That brave bloke who married my Grandmother? His martial bravery was never in doubt, and the bravery he displayed in his personal life was exceptional. He was on the Nelson when it struck a mine and lost most of its bow in 1939, participated in the only Royal Naval Commando operation in Norway in 1940, one of only two to survive in his unit, served on the Nelson through the Malta convoys until 1943 being torpedoed three times (only one attack caused damage) and when the Nelson struck another mine, volunteered for service with what become the SBS (Special Boat Service) in Ceylon. He lost one wife to a GI, another to cancer and my Grandmother to multiple strokes. I used to ride up and see him as often as I could, and every time I turned up on my bike, what ever it was at the time, he called ME brave.

Now you lot need to be brave and try a bike you think wouldn't be "you". You owe it to a bloke who ended up serving through three wars, just because his parents couldn't look after him once he turned 14 and he needed somewhere to sleep and something to eat. A Buell has to be in there somewhere.

<img src=http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/albums/thumbs/6/d6e56105ecfb906d72d9f4cd290dc79b_6629.jpg?dl=12180 07410> (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/picture.php?albumid=685&pictureid=6629)
With my very grateful thanks to Pete McDonald of Wellington Motorcycles, and to Krayy - Just F--king buy it!

98tls
6th August 2008, 19:31
Good read and great pics,looks like a whole lot of fun though the pipe gives me cause for concern if chancing your arm off-tarmac and try a water crossing of any real depth,not what there intended for i realise but the old "na it will make it" thing takes over at times.

skelstar
6th August 2008, 19:57
I have the attention span of a... hey! ... LOOK AT THAT!!! ...

... umm I mean didn't read the whole thing, but really enjoyed the lead-in with the shippy thing. Set the tone well as usual Jim... err James.

riffer
6th August 2008, 20:55
Ugly (but still great) bike.

Wonderful writing.

You're wasted in IT mate. Seriously.

RantyDave
6th August 2008, 20:57
If you read really carefully, he briefly talks about a motorbike. I think.

Dave

RantyDave
6th August 2008, 20:59
You're wasted in IT mate. Seriously.
By the looks of things he didn't spend much of today in IT. Good man!

Dave

Big Dave
6th August 2008, 22:55
:-)


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Pwalo
7th August 2008, 07:50
Buells have always intrigued me. I really like the concept behind the design, and even like the looks, but I've never been able to get my head around sticking the air cooled HD lump in there.

I'll have to pop in to WMCC and take one for a spin, but a shorter one. I'm a bit less vetically endowed than that James fellow.

NZsarge
7th August 2008, 08:14
I don't mind that.....the side plates would have to go though.

sels1
7th August 2008, 08:15
Pete is doing well out of the "Free rides for write-ups" thing with you isn't he Jim? :lol: Well done, good read.

James Deuce
7th August 2008, 08:30
Pete is doing well out of the "Free rides for write-ups" thing with you isn't he Jim? :lol: Well done, good read.

Somebody's doing well. I think both of us are getting something out of it :)

James Deuce
7th August 2008, 08:31
:-)


Cheers mate. :)

That's why I don't video myself riding and why Jimmy is one of my Heroes :)

NZsarge
7th August 2008, 08:33
Somebody's doing well. I think both of us are getting something out of it :)

Do you think there would scope to remodel the set to get it much lower?
Crass I know but has to be asked.... How much?

vifferman
7th August 2008, 08:36
F'kin awesome post, Mr James Twotimes! :niceone:
I'd give you a few hundred blings, but apparently I've been too nice to you lately already. :weep:
Your writings have inspired me to want to ride one of them beasts, but I karnt. Have to go to Yrp (or is it "Urp"? "Yurp"? :wacko:) next week, and if I fell of and fukt myself the vifferbabe would do me in.

Keep up the good work. :niceone:

12.37/10

Sully60
7th August 2008, 09:14
12.37/10

After all those cool pictures and great yarn you couldn't extend to give him a 12.4/10. Gee ya just can't please some folk!:rolleyes:

Krayy
7th August 2008, 09:40
Thanks for taking the time to do the ride and review Jim, most appreciated. If I can't get the money together in time, you have my permission to buy this one, and I'll get the one from R&S :devil2:

Dare I say, "His & Hers"? (I'd cross dress for an STT)

sels1
7th August 2008, 13:12
Now you lot need to be brave and try a bike you think wouldn't be "you".[/SIZE]
Now thats a good line Jim, I will have to go and quote that to CFWB for a testride. (and a few other bike shops as well!!)

Crasherfromwayback
8th August 2008, 11:53
Thanks for taking the time to do the ride and review Jim, most appreciated. If I can't get the money together in time, you have my permission to buy this one, and I'll get the one from R&S :devil2:

Dare I say, "His & Hers"? (I'd cross dress for an STT)

You don't need the money now mate...ride it home now...pay later!

Pete

SPman
8th August 2008, 16:47
The Jeremy Clarkson approach to test write ups - very enjoyable - well done that man!
I like Buells, and mst keeps threatening to test ride a few......

nallac
8th August 2008, 19:10
ssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh


people need to stop going on about how good Buells are.
man you'll get to many people interested in em
whats that going to do to resale values...

push em up of course.

they're nearly in reach for me now
please don't push the prices up
please please please...



i just want one

James Deuce
8th August 2008, 22:26
Do you think there would scope to remodel the set to get it much lower?
Crass I know but has to be asked.... How much?

Why would YOU need to lower the seat, Lurch? :)

Yes there is a bit of scope to do that, but if I were buying I wouldn't need to.

Price is mentioned "elsewhere (http://www.motorcycle.co.nz/buell/)". :innocent:

NZsarge
8th August 2008, 23:48
Why would YOU need to lower the seat, Lurch? :)

Yes there is a bit of scope to do that, but if I were buying I wouldn't need to.


I was thinking of someone else actually, although interesting for sure it's really not my cuppa.

James Deuce
9th August 2008, 08:07
This (http://www.motorcycle.co.nz/buell/?id=38173) would be the one if you are after a Beautiful Buell for the vertically challenged.

Mikkel
9th August 2008, 22:10
Now Jim, that first post is just beyond awesome... Thanks for the read :yes:

Winston001
9th August 2008, 23:20
Great writeup James, you have good skill with words. I like Buells but personally I'd like to see them dressed a bit - front fairing, and that empty space at the back just seems to be asking for something.

Big Dave
10th August 2008, 09:35
Great writeup James, you have good skill with words. I like Buells but personally I'd like to see them dressed a bit - front fairing, and that empty space at the back just seems to be asking for something.

nah.
minimalist r us.

Sully60
10th August 2008, 10:16
nah.
minimalist r us.

Yep, sometimes less is more (http://www.albatrosmt.narod.ru/temi/oboi/Harley/HD-XR750-1980.jpg)

James Deuce
10th August 2008, 10:22
Funny, I was just thinking the same. Of the bikes I've ridden in the last few years, the four that stand out the most are, in the following order of personal desirability the TT, the HD Rocker, the Aprilia Shiver, and the MT-01. All pretty much motorcycles with a stripped down ethos. A couple of wheels, an adequate seat, suspension that works, and an engine bulging with character.

Mikkel
10th August 2008, 16:24
I won't tell the mean greenie you said that... It's temperamental enough as it is without having to introduce emotional harm as well.

nudemetalz
11th August 2008, 12:32
Great write up, James Sir.

Sounds like you like the oldie-pushrodie machines to me.
Want to borrow the V11 for another long-distance blast?
Just don't pop the rear tyre.... ;)

Big Dave
11th August 2008, 15:55
Funny, I was just thinking the same. Of the bikes I've ridden in the last few years, the four that stand out the most are, in the following order of personal desirability the TT, the HD Rocker, the Aprilia Shiver, and the MT-01. All pretty much motorcycles with a stripped down ethos. A couple of wheels, an adequate seat, suspension that works, and an engine bulging with character.

Geez - you sound just like that aussie bloke from the magazine.
You'll qualify for a HTFU tee shirt soon.

A saw a Turbo MT01 parked up in Sydney. Noice.
Speed Triple, and BMW Megamoto deserve mention too.

And don't forget a good old Bonneville. Essence de all you need.

nudemetalz
11th August 2008, 16:03
Geez - you sound just like that aussie bloke from the magazine.
You'll qualify for a HTFU tee shirt soon.

A saw a Turbo MT01 parked up in Sydney. Noice.
Speed Triple, and BMW Megamoto deserve mention too.

And don't forget a good old Bonneville. Essence de all you need.

and.......................................


Moto Guzzi Griso !!

Sully60
11th August 2008, 16:10
and.......................................


Moto Guzzi Griso !!

Yes very cool looking motorcycle.

Yeah, nah, gimme a Jackal Stone (http://www.bikez.com/pictures/moto%20guzzi/2003/20474_0_1_2_california%20stone_Image%20credits%20-%20The%20respective%20copyright%20holder%20or%20ma nufacturer.jpg) anyday!

The No Bling cruiser:yes:

Big Dave
11th August 2008, 17:25
Personal taste thing but moto guzzis have never spoken to me.

sinned
11th August 2008, 19:44
The speed triple still provides me with all the thrill I need. Never ridden a Buell - I won't for a while now having read this thread as don't want to be tempted to change bike for a while.

Ocean1
11th August 2008, 19:59
The speed triple still provides me with all the thrill I need. Never ridden a Buell - I won't for a while now having read this thread as don't want to be tempted to change bike for a while.

:blip:


:devil2:

sinned
11th August 2008, 20:50
:blip:


:devil2:
Actually the :devil2: has tempted me on the new model speed triple. And then there is the BKing??

Ocean1
11th August 2008, 21:06
Actually the :devil2: has tempted me on the new model speed triple. And then there is the BKing??

May you be in heaven half an hour before he knows you're dead dude.

And I'll have your order at the bar...

jrandom
11th August 2008, 21:14
Personal taste thing but moto guzzis have never spoken to me.

A Moto Guzzi spoke to me, once.

It said "SCREEEEEEEECCHHHHHH".

I then became enlightened, and realised why most of them have their centerstands removed.

Big Dave
12th August 2008, 01:46
A Moto Guzzi spoke to me, once.

It said "SCREEEEEEEECCHHHHHH".

I then became enlightened, and realised why most of them have their centerstands removed.

First thing I do to ANY bike.

Sully60
12th August 2008, 08:24
First thing I do to ANY bike.

So do you use tools or 'the other' method?:whistle:

Big Dave
12th August 2008, 13:26
So do you use tools or 'the other' method?:whistle:

So far - a combination.

Trophy - dragged it off
Bonneville - unbolted it.

sels1
12th August 2008, 13:30
And don't forget a good old Bonneville. Essence de all you need.

Yup there is a real fun factor to a Bonnie - I take my brothers one for a blat now and then and really enjoy it.

nudemetalz
12th August 2008, 20:37
Then you have Paul in NZ's beautiful old Trumpy. That is a classy machine.

James Deuce
12th August 2008, 20:54
Paul's is the TR6A I mentioned.

nudemetalz
12th August 2008, 20:58
Paul's is the TR6A I mentioned.

oops,.. it is too......:doh:

James Deuce
27th August 2008, 18:01
Hah! Sold!

Krayy
28th August 2008, 10:23
Hah! Sold!
Ssh!! Don't tell anyone yet, or I might get pipped at the post...

But if all goes well, tractor city, here I come!!!!
:woohoo:

Big Dave
28th August 2008, 13:49
Ssh!! Don't tell anyone yet, or I might get pipped at the post...

But if all goes well, tractor city, here I come!!!!
:woohoo:

I ride all these exotic machines and when I jump back on the tractor sometimes it takes a few k's to get used to it again.

They aren't the sort of bike you should judge on a quick test ride.

But then I get the mojo back and start hurling it into corners and getting air in my driveway again it's still my favourite bike of all.

jrandom
28th August 2008, 13:51
But then I get the mojo back and start hurling it into corners and getting air in my driveway...

... and then you wake up with a start and realise that someone's been riding a 2-stroke up and down your street for the last ten minutes?

I get that too.

Dagnabit.

Big Dave
28th August 2008, 14:59
... and then you wake up with a start and realise that someone's been riding a 2-stroke up and down your street for the last ten minutes?

I get that too.

Dagnabit.

Sunshine, I can do shit on that bike that your ol' pig just dreams about.

jrandom
28th August 2008, 15:01
Sunshine, I can do shit on that bike that you ol' pig just dreams about.

Like standing quarter-miles that last longer than 13 seconds?

Yeah, dontcha hate it when the fun's over too soon.

:2thumbsup

Big Dave
28th August 2008, 15:03
Like standing quarter-miles that last longer than 13 seconds?

Yeah, dontcha hate it when the fun's over too soon.

:2thumbsup

If quarter mile times were higher than about 14th on my list of importance I'd consider one - or a Busa.

jrandom
28th August 2008, 15:10
If quarter mile times were higher than about 14th on my list of importance I'd consider one - or a Busa.

But, le horreur! Busas are ugly.

None if it has any worth if you're not lookin' good in the process.

:nono:

Big Dave
28th August 2008, 15:17
But, le horreur! Busas are ugly.

None if it has any worth if you're not lookin' good in the process.

:nono:

You cannot fail to be impressed by the way the machine can be jeckyll and hyde at the twist of a wrist and it's my favourite 'cockpit' on a bike.

Just go internal mode and switch to light speed.

jrandom
28th August 2008, 15:20
Just go internal mode and switch to light speed.

But Big Dave, speeding is illegal.

AllanB
28th August 2008, 15:23
One thing I've always admired about them - they handle - despite the steering having a very extreme sport bike rake plus the wheelbase being very short. On paper they should flip over under acceleration and almost fall over in corners.

Yet bastards on them keep passing me around the hills!

Bastards are always smiling when they stop as well.

Bastards who ride them are also very happy to chat about bikes in general and have usually had an assortment of brands of bikes.

jrandom
28th August 2008, 15:25
On paper they should flip over under acceleration and almost fall over in corners.

They do.

However, I've been assured that that's because the one I rode was 'set up wrong'.

So I have reserved judgment.

Big Dave
28th August 2008, 16:26
They do.

However, I've been assured that that's because the one I rode was 'set up wrong'.

So I have reserved judgment.

The English press that you hold in such high esteem rate them as THE best cornering motorcycles.

jrandom
28th August 2008, 16:33
The English press that you hold in such high esteem...

:pinch:

Anyhoo, like I said, I'm quite prepared to believe that the one I rode was just set up badly.

Big Dave
28th August 2008, 16:38
:pinch:

Anyhoo, like I said, I'm quite prepared to believe that the one I rode was just set up badly.

I can tell when mine is out 2lbs of air pressure.

And as noted previously - there are mojo adjustments.

jrandom
28th August 2008, 16:41
I can tell when mine is out 2lbs of air pressure.

lbs as in PSI?

I don't think I've ever ridden a bike where 2psi out, front or rear tyre, wasn't fairly obvious.

:confused:

Big Dave
28th August 2008, 16:55
A Lb either end makes not a lot of difference in 'legal' use on most bikes.

jrandom
28th August 2008, 16:59
A Lb either end makes not a lot of difference in 'legal' use on most bikes.

But 2lb, as you stated, is twice as much as an lb.

Dunno about 'legal' or otherwise. I feel a 2psi difference in my barge if I go round a roundabout, or in the front if I'm braking 'briskly' and the tyre's flexing, etc. It doesn't require high speed.

Big Dave
28th August 2008, 17:25
But 2lb, as you stated, is twice as much as an lb.

.


Whatever. It actually needs more than that on some bikes before it becomes hugely obvious. That's why we check 'em huh.

Ocean1
28th August 2008, 18:28
Bastards...

My antecedence may be dodgy, but I, for one, am unlikely to discommode you, dude. :baby:

AllanB
28th August 2008, 18:51
Yep - I'd have to say I've met some good bastards who ride Buells.

I suspect it's because they are having fun on their bikes. :2thumbsup

Krayy
2nd September 2008, 13:29
Thumbs up if you just signed a sales agreement for a Buell STT?

:2thumbsup :woohoo:

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh....yessssssss!!

Off to Wellywood on Friday then...

James Deuce
2nd September 2008, 13:51
Excellent. I was just about to ring you and ask if we were still on.

Crasherfromwayback
2nd September 2008, 15:50
Thumbs up if you just signed a sales agreement for a Buell STT?

:2thumbsup :woohoo:

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh....yessssssss!!

Off to Wellywood on Friday then...


Excellent. I was just about to ring you and ask if we were still on.

See you both Fri!!

Pete

gunnyrob
2nd September 2008, 19:24
So how much was that new kitchen you bought Cora, Krayy?

Sorry I can't make it down to Welly town Jim, I'm leading the Cold Kiwi Auckland push. See you there?

James Deuce
2nd September 2008, 20:01
So how much was that new kitchen you bought Cora, Krayy?

Sorry I can't make it down to Welly town Jim, I'm leading the Cold Kiwi Auckland push. See you there?
Depends which direction weasel boy (bastard bought my bike) heads in :)

Crasherfromwayback
2nd September 2008, 20:25
Depends which direction weasel boy (bastard bought my bike) heads in :)

Don't fret...I've got your new bike arriving soon.

Krayy
8th September 2008, 10:48
It's home...and I LOVE IT!!!!

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=81428