View Full Version : Black and white and some red all over
The Lone Rider
7th August 2008, 19:53
Got the bike back together... and here's what I've been up to!
Just got a fuse problem - when the bike is idling they run fine. However I took a ride to the grocery store and they weren't going. Checked the fuse when I got home and the 0.5a fuse I had in it had blown. Move up to a 1a maybe?
howdamnhard
7th August 2008, 22:00
Got the bike back together... and here's what I've been up to!
Just got a fuse problem - when the bike is idling they run fine. However I took a ride to the grocery store and they weren't going. Checked the fuse when I got home and the 0.5a fuse I had in it had blown. Move up to a 1a maybe?
Check your regulator/rectifier,may be on the way out.
The Lone Rider
7th August 2008, 22:05
Check your regulator/rectifier,may be on the way out.
No idea what that is but I'll look into it.
The lighting is all on its own system and has it's own fuse - it is not connected to the ignition or running lights etc. Only thing is that it gets it's power from the bike battery.
howdamnhard
7th August 2008, 22:25
No idea what that is but I'll look into it.
The lighting is all on its own system and has it's own fuse - it is not connected to the ignition or running lights etc. Only thing is that it gets it's power from the bike battery.
It's part of the battery charging circuit.It's a black thing with cooling fins and wires coming out of it.One of the leads from it runs through the fuse to the battery.Try get your hands on a shop manual,do a search on manuals on KB.Then you can check it out and also see if you have the correct fuse.
howdamnhard
7th August 2008, 22:30
The battery may start running flat first'trouble starting etc.My fuse blew when the regulator died.Putting a bigger fuse in is not a good idea as if there is actually a short somewhere in the system something more expensive is going to have to burn out until it goes open circuit .
Goodluck
xwhatsit
7th August 2008, 23:10
I'd say it's his own wiring, it's not the main fuse blowing, it's his little wiring add-on with it's own fuse. So reg/rec probably not a worry.
I suppose you have to check how much current your lights are pulling. If I were doing it -- and I'm dangerous when it comes to electricity -- I'd work out how much current it should be using by adding up all the lights, then see if it matches up reasonably closely. Then buy a fuse a little bit higher than that.
But really, my advice will probably catch you on fire and blow up your bike, so wait until somebody smart comes along :P
The Lone Rider
8th August 2008, 06:41
The battery may start running flat first'trouble starting etc.My fuse blew when the regulator died.Putting a bigger fuse in is not a good idea as if there is actually a short somewhere in the system something more expensive is going to have to burn out until it goes open circuit .
Goodluck
Pretty sure it isn't my wiring, I've done plenty of soldering and PCB wiring up before and this was far from complex.
Red line going off the + of the battery to a 0.5 amp fuse, then to a switch, switch to four LED strips, then out to a yellow line connected to the - of the battery.
Just really seems odd - I have had them sitting on for a good 10 minutes or more while I was position the LEDs. Was sitting in the garage with the lights off and the LEDs on so I could check their spread. Had it probably on for a good 5-10 minutes with the bike engine turned on idling and no problems. When riding however.. when I hit roughly 30k and accelerated hard and switched up to second gear I saw them go out
Horse
8th August 2008, 10:58
You really need to check the current rating of each LED assembly and then total that up. It's possible 0.5A isn't quite enough when the driver circuitry is included (depending on how that's done).
If 0.5A is close to the limit (and there's always a bit of "slop" in fuses) then at idle it might be just under because the output from the alternator and therefore the battery voltage will be sitting a bit lower. When you rev the engine hard the alternator will spit out a bit more juice and the voltage on the battery will rise just a tad, and that could be enough to increase the current draw on the lights to over the 0.5A of the fuse.
Bung a 1A fuse in and see if it makes a difference, but really you should check the current rating of each of those LED light units and total that up.
The Lone Rider
8th August 2008, 11:10
I've talked to several people, and including those on here I've had about 5 or 6 different opinions.
However I asked a trade electrician at work today, he suggested simpliest thing to do was put a 1a fuse in. Other than that he said total up and put a resister or a small regulator.
Also had a suggestion to put the out lead from the LEDs onto the bike frame rather than the - on the battery
Flip
8th August 2008, 14:01
Well a 0.5amp fuse will only pass 6 watts before it blows. In my experience its usually the expensive radar detector or ignition module that blows first and provides complete overload protection to the 35c fuse. What current is the LED drawing while standing still? It might be that they draw 0.4 amp which is too close for a 0.5 fuse.
The Lone Rider
8th August 2008, 15:37
Well a 0.5amp fuse will only pass 6 watts before it blows. In my experience its usually the expensive radar detector or ignition module that blows first and provides complete overload protection to the 35c fuse. What current is the LED drawing while standing still? It might be that they draw 0.4 amp which is too close for a 0.5 fuse.
Yeah, I've just bought a multi meter and will test later (when I sober up)...
I've been doing this wiring and all that with a bit of throwing back and forth of ideas with Imdying, so much props to him.
I don't plan on getting your name tattooed on me though :P
Tank
8th August 2008, 15:41
will test later (when I sober up)...
Posted at 3 in the afternoon on a workday!
Well done that man! :2thumbsup
The Lone Rider
8th August 2008, 15:51
Posted at 3 in the afternoon on a workday!
Well done that man! :2thumbsup
Hehehe, well I actually took annual leave for half the day and got off at 11am. Tomorrow is CKMC's 1st Annual Birthday Bash and I'm a busy bee and needed the time off work to get some things organized.
From 11am, I've managed to go grocery shopping for cake making materials, baked a cake (no icing on it yet), bought some more fuses for the bike, bought beer (which I'm half way through lol), dropped off the CKMC rally flag for some repairs, went to the party venue to confirm some details and pick up some sponsor prizes... and well it didn't take as long as I thought so I got into the beer.
Oh and did I mention I'm celebrating CKMC birthday, my birthday, Spaully (aspiring CKMC new member) and my nephews birthday (who's coming to the party) so its a party x4... I will be tanked until Sunday. So if any posts I make from here on start being odd.. well you know why!
avgas
8th August 2008, 15:52
What are the LED's rated at - i think you will find they will be say 2V @ 100mA each.
If they are all in series you shouldn't have a problem, in parallel you will need lots current.
Do they each have their own resistance? or is it a net of resistors.
Where is your ground going?
I would be highly supprised that 1 or 2 of these things are drawing more than 6 watts, or pulling more than 0.5A.
I would hate to see you bbq LED's by trying to double the current through them
Tank
8th August 2008, 15:53
Hehehe, well I actually took annual leave for half the day and got off at 11am. Tomorrow is CKMC's 1st Annual Birthday Bash and I'm a busy bee and needed the time off work to get some things organized.
From 11am, I've managed to go grocery shopping for cake making materials, baked a cake (no icing on it yet), bought some more fuses for the bike, bought beer (which I'm half way through lol), dropped off the CKMC rally flag for some repairs, went to the party venue to confirm some details and pick up some sponsor prizes... and well it didn't take as long as I thought so I got into the beer.
Oh and did I mention I'm celebrating CKMC birthday, my birthday, Spaully (aspiring CKMC new member) and my nephews birthday (who's coming to the party) so its a party x4... I will be tanked until Sunday. So if any posts I make from here on start being odd.. well you know why!
Im sorry - did you just say you baked a cake :no:
Cajun
8th August 2008, 15:54
bang a bigger fuse in and if that blows then worry about it
all i normally do
xwhatsit
8th August 2008, 15:56
Ah well that's the thing, isn't it -- LEDs being semiconductors, if you make a small change in voltage, you get a massive change in current (logarithmic relationship).
Voltage is not stable on a motorcycle -- they say 6 volts or 12 volts, but at high revs you might be getting quite a few volts over those figures. So if the voltage is going up a couple of volts when riding (while you're testing at idle), the LEDs start to draw much more current until it pops your fuse.
I suppose a voltage regulator would be the best thing to do. Since the load is fairly low, could you not get away with one of those little 10c 3-pin linear regs?
The Lone Rider
8th August 2008, 16:16
What are the LED's rated at - i think you will find they will be say 2V @ 100mA each.
If they are all in series you shouldn't have a problem, in parallel you will need lots current.
Do they each have their own resistance? or is it a net of resistors.
Where is your ground going?
I would be highly supprised that 1 or 2 of these things are drawing more than 6 watts, or pulling more than 0.5A.
I would hate to see you bbq LED's by trying to double the current through them
These are automotive LED strips, they are rated for 12v.. not sure of the amps.
Yes.. I baked a cake.
No, you can't have any. It's for the birthday bash. Once I get to it, I'll be putting icing lettering and maybe our logo on it.
I also make good lasange..
And my last gf said I was the best shes ever had. Not so sure the other gfs share the same opinion. Never asked lol.
Cake baking bikers tag = real funny :D
Back to LEDs....
avgas
8th August 2008, 16:38
sweet as - check the wattage - if its over 6 watts just go for the 1A fuse, they should have all the resistance they require not to bake
The Lone Rider
8th August 2008, 20:48
Put a 1amp fuse in. Going fine and didnt smell any melted wiring when I got home lol.
howdamnhard
8th August 2008, 22:09
Sorry I didn't know it was your LED light circuit fuse that was the problem.Like the guys previously said at higher revs the voltage reg will let higher voltage go through to charge the battery (up to a point) which will allow the leds to draw more current which will blow your fuse.A 1A fuse should be okay but it would pay to check your total current draw at higher revs and insure your wiring is up to it.
The Lone Rider
9th August 2008, 08:20
Sorry I didn't know it was your LED light circuit fuse that was the problem.Like the guys previously said at higher revs the voltage reg will let higher voltage go through to charge the battery (up to a point) which will allow the leds to draw more current which will blow your fuse.A 1A fuse should be okay but it would pay to check your total current draw at higher revs and insure your wiring is up to it.
Find me a way to ride it while checking a multi meter.. and maybe it's worth a shot :laugh:
After all.. the fuse and switch and majority of the wiring is under the seat...
howdamnhard
9th August 2008, 21:44
Find me a way to ride it while checking a multi meter.. and maybe it's worth a shot :laugh:
After all.. the fuse and switch and majority of the wiring is under the seat...
You don't have to ride it to rev it.The voltage is determined by the engine revs up to a point when the regulator kicks in to limit it.
The Lone Rider
9th August 2008, 23:58
You don't have to ride it to rev it.The voltage is determined by the engine revs up to a point when the regulator kicks in to limit it.
No seemed to me putting it in gear and adding throttle was what blew it.. not leaving it in neutral and adding the throttle.
Seems I having problems with the battery going flat now...
dang it.
Bike was flat for going to the CKMC birthday bash so had to take car.
Then went to pub to celebrate my birthday tonight, and bloody thing was flat when I went to go home. Good thing no girls were watching.
vindy500
10th August 2008, 00:07
bike + center stand, put it in gear and test
howdamnhard
10th August 2008, 00:09
No seemed to me putting it in gear and adding throttle was what blew it.. not leaving it in neutral and adding the throttle.
Seems I having problems with the battery going flat now...
dang it.
Bike was flat for going to the CKMC birthday bash so had to take car.
Then went to pub to celebrate my birthday tonight, and bloody thing was flat when I went to go home. Good thing no girls were watching.
Firstly HAPPY BIRTHDAY.Lucky you didn't have to push your bike home,I did once when bike died halfway home with blown rectifier/regulator.Sounds like those LEDs are more trouble than they are worth.Charge up your battery,restore your original lights and see how you go.Battery shouldn't be going flat unless a circuit is forming somewhere draining it.How did you wire up your lights again?
vindy500
10th August 2008, 00:12
what are the legalities of red leds?
The Lone Rider
10th August 2008, 00:16
I DID have to push it home.. just there was no ladies who saw me this time lol.
Look back a few posts, explains how I wired it. Could draw out diagram tommorrow maybe... after nursing a hang over I imagine.
I seem to be surprisingly coherant for someone who started drinking around 3pm yesterday, went to bed, and started again at noon today lol.
howdamnhard
10th August 2008, 00:30
I DID have to push it home.. just there was no ladies who saw me this time lol.
Look back a few posts, explains how I wired it. Could draw out diagram tommorrow maybe... after nursing a hang over I imagine.
I seem to be surprisingly coherant for someone who started drinking around 3pm yesterday, went to bed, and started again at noon today lol.
Bummer,bike sure gets heavy and funny how you never before realised those slight up gradients.:sweatdropYeh I looked back,should all be OK,but obviously it's not.Get the multimeter out and check where it's shorting.Is the LED switch definitely off when selected off,have you disturbed any other wires resulting in a short ,etc.Good luck.
xwhatsit
10th August 2008, 09:50
Why didn't you just bump-start it lol? Flat battery doesn't preclude bump-starting on 90% of bikes around. 6V Super Cub is a different story though...
The Lone Rider
10th August 2008, 10:12
Ok, next time I will push start a 250kg bike down the road on my own after I have been in a pub for 12 hours.
Anyway, may have sorted the problem... I think the switch may have been making contact with the frame and there for crossing the circuit. But then again if it was doing that I would have thought the LEDs would have been on all the time. Who knows. Might just be a tired old battery.
The Lone Rider
10th August 2008, 13:37
Removed fuse from circuit so should mean the whole thing no longer connected, also tapped up all contacts and such.
Took the bike for a spin - about 30k. Got home. Turned it off, started back up easily. Turned it off. Started back up easily.
So.. I guess let it sit and see if it fires tommorrow. If it's fine, then put the fuse back in and repeat the same test.
xwhatsit
10th August 2008, 18:03
Ok, next time I will push start a 250kg bike down the road on my own after I have been in a pub for 12 hours.
It's got four cylinders, be a piece of piss. If people can bump-start Norton 500 single racebikes on the flat you can do your bike :D Unless you're pissed of course :laugh:
Hope the battery holds for tomorrow! Hate trying to chase down things like this with a multimeter, especially with the state of my wiring loom. Good luck!
The Lone Rider
10th August 2008, 18:21
It's got four cylinders, be a piece of piss. If people can bump-start Norton 500 single racebikes on the flat you can do your bike :D Unless you're pissed of course :laugh:
Hope the battery holds for tomorrow! Hate trying to chase down things like this with a multimeter, especially with the state of my wiring loom. Good luck!
No bike of mine has ever been easy to push, let alone push start. And pub + 12 hours. Come on!
Bike still holding, will see tommorrow when its sat all night.
Then I'll put a fuse in it, and not switch on the LEDs and see if it goes flat
Then I'll turn the LEDs on when riding and see if that drains it.
The Lone Rider
17th August 2008, 16:52
well here's an update - took my battery into an auto electical place. They slow charged it over two days and tested it for voltage retention. Basically the conclusion was the battery was to old and tired to be useful. :sunny:
1 New battery later last thursday... bike runs sweet. :wari:
It is now Sunday - 4 days after I put the new battery in. I have done roughly 400k in total since then. :scooter:
Time to back track. Since thursday I have ridden around the hills and to lyttleton. Yesterday I road to asburton and back.:cold:
However today I took a friend to little river. When we got back to her place I went "hey I can smell something burning" and thought it must be the the wiring for the neons (they werent on - just thought maybe from the engine heating them up or from something else burning nearby in the neighborhood
Get home and can still smell. Once the engine is off I can hear sizzling. And see smoke from under the side covers. HOLY FUCK! :gob:
Wheel it down the drive, carefully pop the seat off. Fried and melted deformed battery.:crybaby:
What the fuck... thats all I can say.
Ive done several hundred K before today, and do what is ultimately a pissy casual cruise to lyttle river.. and the sucker fries.:eek5:
I'm pissed off, and broke.
Dammit.
Who wants to buy a guitar, guitar amp cab, webcam.. got several things I will have to part with (including my car) so I can get this fuckin bike going once and for all and actually have a spell of smooth running!:bye:
What a great weekend to have my birthday.
And to not be out of character, even though I'm very pissed off.. I'll throw in a joke.
I'm so pissed off right now I don't think I could even be fucked baking a cake :angry2:
The Lone Rider
17th August 2008, 22:33
Ta daaaaa.. the amazing exploding fiery battery..
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