Jammers or Detectors. Which is best

[Skyryder]

On the Parra Parra's I got talking to rider who uses a radar jammer. His line of thought was that a jammer prevented a speed readout that could be used in evidence and that jammers were effective against the instant laser gun's signal.

This guy used a Rocky Mountain but I am uncertain of the model.

Skyryder

[k14]

As i said in the other thread, you need both. All a jammer does is stop you getting zapped by the laser guns. You still need a detector to pick up the Ka band radar. Don't think you can get a jammer for that, something to do with it being illegal to operate on that band without a licence.

[inlinefour]

On the Parra Parra's I got talking to rider who uses a radar jammer. His line of thought was that a jammer prevented a speed readout that could be used in evidence and that jammers were effective against the instant laser gun's signal.

This guy used a Rocky Mountain but I am uncertain of the model.

Skyryder

It was my understanding that jammers are illegal and that if you are caught with one you are severely in the shit :buggerd:

[TwoSeven]

There was a big thread on this a while ago (on radars in general). Jammers are next to hopeless, especially if they are using laser units which are pointed at the vehicle - line of site. In that scenario detectors are pretty rubbish as well.

[avgas]

Jammers are and arent illegal. They cant outlaw em cos they essentially do the same job that the radars guns do, but on a different principal.
Anyone up for making bike mobile emp's?

[sAsLEX]

Jammers are and arent illegal. They cant outlaw em cos they essentially do the same job that the radars guns do, but on a different principal.
Anyone up for making bike mobile emp's?

To operate a device that emits certain frequencies at certain powers you require a license, which most people operating a jammer that works properly on the sly wouldn't have!

[ajturbo]

To operate a device that emits certain frequencies at certain powers you require a license, which most people operating a jammer that works properly on the sly wouldn't have!

they are only illegal if you get caught ... right?

[StoneChucker]

they are only illegal if you get caught ... right?
Isn't that the general rule of life?

[Skunk]

Anyone up for making bike mobile emp's?I'd love one of those to use on the boy racers round here with the loud stereos :mad:
Imagine their faces :killingme :killingme

[Skyryder]

As I understand the law yes anything that 'jams' a radar signal is illegal. Now to jam a signal requires the device to 'transmit' a signal that will interfere with the radar or lasar gun. I raised this very question with this guy I met on the Para Parra's. Now this guy said that 'jammers' (as they are known) do not transmit and therefore are not illegal. What they do is prevent the radar or laser gun from recieving their own signal. How they do this I am not too sure but one thing he was positive about was that 'jammers' are not a transmitter and therefore legal. Does anyone have some factual information on this??

Skyryder

[sAsLEX]

What they do is prevent the radar or laser gun from recieving their own signal.

Skyryder

Well they cant passivly Jam, this just wont work, if they dont transmit then they can have no effect on the radar in the cops hands! How they would do what it says above baffles me, maybe inside the "jammer" is a tiny martian who eats radar energy or something like that.

At the mo I am working in the Radar and Communications section at work and will pose this question to those there, but the jammer one of the guys made there definately did transmit!

[What?]

The jammer need simply transmit a wave identical to, but perfectly out of sync with the radar device. This inverse wave will effectively cancel the first one, so the stalker or whatever won't register anything.

[Skyryder]

Well they cant passivly Jam, this just wont work, if they dont transmit then they can have no effect on the radar in the cops hands! How they would do what it says above baffles me, maybe inside the "jammer" is a tiny martian who eats radar energy or something like that.

At the mo I am working in the Radar and Communications section at work and will pose this question to those there, but the jammer one of the guys made there definately did transmit!


This
Importantly, a jammer functions only as a receiver, not a transmitter, and is therefore compliant with FCC regulations. It merely reflects back to the targeting device what is essentially a confusing return signal that the device's computer cannot interpret. In this way, a jammer can serve as both a detection device and as a proactive evasion device.

from this http://radardetectors.articleinsider.com/40163_do_radar_jammers_work.html

Would like to know how this works. looking forward to your reply on this.

Skyryder

[dangerous]

There is only one lazer jammer that has a 0% fail (in NZ) that is the Blinder M20 X Treme M10+

HOW DO POLICE LASER GUNS GET YOUR SPEED? The laser gun sends out a very narrow laser beam filled with invisible light
pulses, pointed at your license plate or headlights. The laser beam reflects
off your vehicle, back to the laser gun. The time required from transmission
until the reflection is received is calculated by the laser gun's computer.
This measurement is made about 70 times in 1/3 of a second for fast, high
accuracy.

HOW DOES THE M20 X Treme M10+ WORK?
A laser jammer adds laser "noise" to the reflected signal. The Blinder? M20
X Treme M10+ correctly analyzes the incoming laser gun pulse and gets past
the laser gun filters to cause the speed gun display panel to remain blank.
The M20 X Treme M10+ constantly scans for laser, but jams only during the
alert phase, thus providing long life for the product. When laser is
detected, the Laser Warning System installed in the driver's compartm?ent
provides warning, giving the driver time to check vehicle speed. After speed
is checked, the driver should turn off the system to enable the officer to
detect your vehicle's adjusted speed. Once past the speed trap, turn the M20
or M40 X Treme it back on.

It is legal to buy, sell, own a lazer jammer...... however it is illegal to stop a copper from doing his job, which is what the jammer does.
However.................. if the copper gets a zero reading, then there is no proof that you were speding so you can not be nicked for that that means there is no proof that you stopped the copper from doing his job.

[k14]

This
Importantly, a jammer functions only as a receiver, not a transmitter, and is therefore compliant with FCC regulations. It merely reflects back to the targeting device what is essentially a confusing return signal that the device's computer cannot interpret. In this way, a jammer can serve as both a detection device and as a proactive evasion device.

from this http://radardetectors.articleinsider.com/40163_do_radar_jammers_work.html

Would like to know how this works. looking forward to your reply on this.

Skyryder

That cut/paste bit doesn't make sense. First it says it doesnt transmit anything, but then says it sends a "confusing" signal back, how does it do that without transmitting anything?

As far as I know the laser jammers work by sending the exact same beam that the laser gun emits. Because the wavelength isn't altered in any way the gun just thinks the car is stationary.

[sAsLEX]

A typical jammer does so by processing the incoming signal from the targeting device, coupling it with FM static, and then reflecting it back to the targeting device.

how does one add FM static to a reflected signal without transmitting?? This is the point that confuses me.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/prowler/

this is what jamming is about


Each pod houses two powerful continuous wave (CW) transmitters which use beam steering to direct the jamming signal at the threat

[spudchucka]

they are only illegal if you get caught ... right?
You're only in the shit if you get caught, they are illegal regardless of whether you are caught or not.

[Skyryder]

You're only in the shit if you get caught, they are illegal regardless of whether you are caught or not.

As I understand it there are two kinds of, for want of a better word, jammers. Those that transmit and those that do not. Can you claify what kind are illegal.. The biker that I was talking too had a Rocky Mountain jammer and he swore it was not a transmitter. Would like to see the legislation (I can not find it) on this if you can post it would be helpful.

Skyryder

[Sensei]

Skyryder .One of my work mate's has just got a Jammer from the USA $480 to the door of his house . Made by Rocky Mountain totally legal to use . Work's on everything :niceone: . SENSEI

[dangerous]

As I understand it there are two kinds of, for want of a better word, jammers. Those that transmit and those that do not. Can you claify what kind are illegal.. The biker that I was talking too had a Rocky Mountain jammer and he swore it was not a transmitter. Would like to see the legislation (I can not find it) on this if you can post it would be helpful.

Skyryder
I think that there is some confusion here between lazer jammers and radar jammers....... which sky are you asking about?????????????

[dangerous]

You're only in the shit if you get caught, they are illegal regardless of whether you are caught or not.
If refuring to lazer jammers........ then are they ONLY illegel to use???? legal to own, buy and of course sell.

Radar jammers I believe to be illegal reguardless..... yes/no

[onearmedbandit]

Rocky Mountain jammers, from what reviews and tests I've seen on the net, are utter crap. In fact I'm sure I've already posted here the link to some of the reviews in a previous thread. This is not my opinion, but that of independent testers. If anyones interested, ask and I'll try to find the links.

[Skyryder]

Skyryder .One of my work mate's has just got a Jammer from the USA $480 to the door of his house . Made by Rocky Mountain totally legal to use . Work's on everything :niceone: . SENSEI

What modal?

Skyryder

[spudchucka]

As I understand it there are two kinds of, for want of a better word, jammers. Those that transmit and those that do not. Can you claify what kind are illegal.. The biker that I was talking too had a Rocky Mountain jammer and he swore it was not a transmitter. Would like to see the legislation (I can not find it) on this if you can post it would be helpful.

Skyryder
I'll confess to knowing stuff all about them. They are not illegal to own but you can be prosecuted for operating a device that interferes with the day to day operation of police speed detection equipment.

Again, I'm not sure of the relevant legislation / regulations etc but its no problem to track it down. I'll ask one of the snakes at my shop.

[Skyryder]

Rocky Mountain jammers, from what reviews and tests I've seen on the net, are utter crap. In fact I'm sure I've already posted here the link to some of the reviews in a previous thread. This is not my opinion, but that of independent testers. If anyones interested, ask and I'll try to find the links.

Yes I've seen them. Just not too sure how old the test results are and for what models. This guy I ran into had a Rocky Mountain and he swore by it. Even bought one for his son. The problem there so much conflictiong evidence on jammers detectors etc just no too sure which way to go. My gut tells me to get a jammer.

Skyryder

[dangerous]

Yes I've seen them. Just not too sure how old the test results are and for what models. This guy I ran into had a Rocky Mountain and he swore by it. Even bought one for his son. The problem there so much conflictiong evidence on jammers detectors etc just no too sure which way to go. My gut tells me to get a jammer.

Skyryder
Well FWIW http://www.radardirect.co.nz/index3.html have tested thes jammers and only one worked every time the blinder.... RM dident get that good a write up.
Dont get ballsed up with a Yank test cos they use differant systems to NZ

http://www.radartest.com/index.asp

[Biff]

You simply cannot buy a proper, 100% effective radar jammer off the shelf. The only ones that exist are ultra wide band units used by the military and they cost tens of $1000. (K & Ka frequency bands, as used in NZ and Oz, are very wide - you'd never be able to cover them all with an off the shelf bit of kit). You're confusing them with laser jammers me thinks, which do work, only because they confuse the receiver diode and Rx circuitry as you swamp it with crap (I can get technical, but I won't). You can jam a small portion of the radar guns frequencies some of the time, but not all of the frequencies all of the time. Or all of them some of the time for that matter.

Incidently active jammers are those that are powered, passive just sit there and are as useful as a snowball in a coalmine. Like Rocky Mountain shite.

Simply sending the same wavelength (frequency) back from your speeding bike WILL NOT WORK. Ok the theory here that was posted in correct, however there is something called a doppler shift which covers the fundamental physics applicable to a wavelenth originating from (or to) a moving object by changing the frequencies phase. To just cancel out the incoming frequency would take massive procesing power - again, huge expense required here.

[madboy]

I checked the net regarding laser/radar jammers a year or so back, and also spoke to a guy in the industry who knew a few people using them. Co-incidentally this research was done shortly after me receiving a ticket :)

My understanding is in simplistic terms you could buy a laser jammer, and you could buy a radar jammer. Separate units, separate technology, separate price tags. There was only one rader jammer that actually worked, and it cost somewhere around US$1000. The magazine review on it commented something along the lines of driving the truck over the radar before you'd notice it.

Laser's were in a similar boat, wide variety of results and I think only one or two really did work, and were priced accordingly. I came to the conclusion the tickets were cheaper than the jammers.

I think it went something along the lines of it was legal to use a jammer that did not transmit, but the jammers that did not transmit did not jam. Kind of pointless expenditure ya think?

I was told by my industry mate that the three people he knew who ran these units hit the picks the moment they went off, slowed down and turned the units off. Thereby allowing the radar/laser user to get a reading on them and hopefully not making them too suspicious - thereby avoiding the traffic stop and subsequent explanation of what the little black boxes were for. I seem to find that cops often don't get a lock on a bike as quick as they do on a car (or perhaps I've got fucking huge speedo error) - which would give more time to slow down.

Unless you're planning on subscribing to the dark side and avoiding the ticket through use of the throttle - in which case you need a scanner not a jammer!! But I'm not advocating that!!!!!!

[madboy]

I should also point out that I dropped out of college physics, and won't pretend to know bugger all about how the devices work. I'm just going off the net reviews and heresay of others!!!

[FlyingDutchMan]

You can't get a jammer to operate without it transmitting something. The only semi-legal (since it doesn't need to be operated to work) way I can envisage is to have a stealth vehicle which absorbs a lot of the radar and what it does reflect isn't reflected towards the reciever. And then that would cost more than a life time of tickets, so why bother?

[Biff]

You can't get a jammer to operate without it transmitting something. The only semi-legal (since it doesn't need to be operated to work) way I can envisage is to have a stealth vehicle which absorbs a lot of the radar and what it does reflect isn't reflected towards the reciever. And then that would cost more than a life time of tickets, so why bother?

Pretty much, although you're on the nail with your second statement.

Going back to what I referred to in my earlier posting, a dopplar shift is where the frequency is changed over a given distance & speed (amongst other things). With this in mind, the reason early stealth planes worked so well was because their structures consisted of a highly complex arrangement of angled body panels. When these various angles were hit by an RF (radio frequency) signal, be they microwave (including radar) or otherwise, each of these panels would reflect the RF signal back in various directions, some even towards the transmitting source at fractionally different times. Therefore the dopplar effect would be different for each of the signals received by the radar, therefore making the plane appear very small (like a bird or a flock of small birds) or not appear at all.

More modern radars overcame this by introducing a very careful set of algorithms into the radars software capable of "rebuilding" these different reflections in order to reconstitute the target. Then came RF absorption material.............

How to jam - three guys in a room, one is shouting (the radar transmitter, Tx) at the other, one is shouting back at him at least as loud if not louder (the target jammer transmitting, Tx), the third (the radar receiver, Rx) is trying to work out what the hell is being said.

[marty]

considering 2 patrol cars approaching each other can use their radars independently and without interfering with each other, and knowing just a little about radar theory, i beleive that the power and processing required to overcome a basic Ka band radar would be huge. it would be cheaper to take the back roads, or pay for a years racing 600 supersport, and there are no radars there! these units are tested in trucks for a reason - you just wouldn't fit them on a bike. i have yet to actually SEE one of these legendary 'works every time' jammer. you could always write to the USAF and ask for a test pot of F117-A paint.....

[Madmax]

got pulled up on the ZX10r the other day, this HP guy thought
i had a jammer on board? he had been trying to get a lock
on me two days in a row (and i was not speeding anyway)
we sort of came to the same idea that the shape and color (black)
of my bike may have made some inpact on the laser
(or he was a very poor shot)
for what its worth

[Blakamin]

I was told by my industry mate that the three people he knew who ran these units hit the picks the moment they went off, slowed down and turned the units off. Thereby allowing the radar/laser user to get a reading on them and hopefully not making them too suspicious - thereby avoiding the traffic stop and subsequent explanation of what the little black boxes were for.

thats what the boss does in his commode (and me the one time as I came into a 50 zone a tad hot and the car screamed at me... "WTF???" I thought and he reached over and hit the button to turn it off) he has the M20's on both ends of his car

[What?]

Simply sending the same wavelength (frequency) back from your speeding bike WILL NOT WORK. Ok the theory here that was posted in correct...
I came up with a valid theory??? Sorry - I won't do it again. :shutup:

[Biff]

I came up with a valid theory??? Sorry - I won't do it again. :shutup:

sorry - didn't mean to sound condescending. valid theory - yes, for a moving vehicle - no.

[What?]

sorry - didn't mean to sound condescending.
Not taken that way.

[Biff]

Not taken that way.

apology duly withdrawn :whistle:

[TonyB]

Suggest that anyone thinking of buying a jammer reads this: http://www.radar.co.nz/driver.html
It appears the Rocky Mountain one wasn't all it appeared to be, mind you this article IS 8 years old now...

[avgas]

but i fig it was better than makin a new one.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/5185/weird.html
and you said rat bikes were bad

[Dafe]

Considering there are cops belonging to this site, I wouldn't be mentioning knowing anybody using a jammer!!!
But for your own curiosity, thats fine!

[marty]

considering most of the cops on this site think that radar/laser jammers are a total waste of time & money because for 1, there's plenty more fish in the sea, and for 2, they know that what goes around comes around. i wouldn't sweat it.