Sliding and the two wheel drift?

[lostinflyz]

OK this has been bugging me for a bit but how do all the good guys get used to/learn to slide.

I've heard several stories of some of our better racers telling others to just slide both ends into a corner and she'll be right. How the hell did they learn to do it. Ok i can understand the the rear end slide side of things and how in time you could get used to it(sorta) and kinda get where dirt riding would help but i mean sliding a dirt bike round a muddy paddock and a race bike at some significant lean angles and fairlysizeable speeds just seems crazy. And dont even get me started on sliding the front wheel. to me that seems crazy.

Im not trying to emulate or learn any of this stuff i simply just wonder how the hell guys learn and get used to it. i can imagine learning it involving a million crashes and several lifetimes worth of pain. but surely that is not how guys have done it as it surely means more bills to pay than is feasible (someones gotta front the cash) and more broken bones than is possible.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

a dirt bike will help you get used to sliding in and out of a corner and if you lay it down it dont cost ya anything!! find a gravel road and attack it, you will soon get used to sliding both ends into a turn, possibley loosing the front mid turn and picking it up with sliding the rear on exit. you cant learn this on a road/race bike without lots of expensive crashes!! This is why mx'ers are good when they convert to road racing, they know how to slide if need be and are masters of slide control.

[scrivy]

Dude, get a sidecar. Heaps of 1, 2 and 3 wheel drifting to be had!! Then there's the rain.............

Yee Haaaaa.....

[sidecar bob]

Dude, get a sidecar. Heaps of 1, 2 and 3 wheel drifting to be had!! Then there's the rain.............

Yee Haaaaa.....

And just like a double ended dildo, Two people can get their rocks off with one at the same time.

[sugilite]

I used to put a stuffed front tyre on a dirt bike, then ride it feet up. Just be prepared to eat dirt from time to time.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Get a big dirtbike and ride in sand a lot. Best learning surface of them all.

[BIHB@0610]

And just like a double ended dildo, Two people can get their rocks off with one at the same time.

:devil2: aaah .... Now I understand! LCR = "Lacivious Carnal Rampage" ...:drool:

[svr]

Get a big dirtbike and ride in sand a lot. Best learning surface of them all.

True - Only time that soft is good.

On a slow bike like the vfr won't sliding tires just slow you down ? - don't you want to be `at' the limit of your tires, not over?
Always fun to watch a madman tho!

[Motu]

To learn to push and slide the front tyre,and to crash a lot - you need to do some flattrack,like the real pro's do.Get on a hard pack clay track with a blue groove - toss it into the corner with no brakes,the bike will two wheel drift and as you approach the apex the front tyre will be very loaded and slide.Lots of fun - and you will no longer be afraid of a front wheel slide.The tyres will howl....and I've paced out more than 3 metres of black marks from the front wheel several times.

[johan]

When I was a kid, I used to take my 50cc bike out to the frozen lakes. I had snow tyres with studs on the rear. The best condition was clear ice with powder snow on top of it that would make it hurt less when you crashed. I loved sliding on the ice, you actually had lot of control.

Of course, this was 15 years ago. Now I'm old and scared, so I've never tried to do any sliding with my road bike on the track.
Maybe if I get powder snow again... :whistle:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/92090/motorbike_ice_roadracing/

[lostinflyz]

yea understandbly you need to practice on dirt. but does it really apply that literaly to the track. I mean ive heard of some guys 2 wheel drifting through the corner at the end of timaru straight and thats a stupidly fast corner. Some of that sounds either like stupid talent or stupid balls.

Eitherway i dont really want to learn to slide it all around. if i ever tried the only thing sliding would be my arse. I simply wonder how on earth u learn and get used to sliding a bike stupid pace.

[CHOPPA]

I wouldnt like to be sliding the front end and i wouldnt recommend trying it cause its not gonna be fast, i can feel the front pushing in corners but my logic is that means your about on the limit... Maybe thats what seperates the good guys they let the front push that little bit more but sliding? I reakon that comes just before scratching. Even on the dirt sliding the front wheel is far from ideal

[CHOPPA]

actually the reason i checked this thread out is because every time there is a 'what tyre' thread you are garanteed to read about some guys that ride on the road and come sideways into corners and smoke it up coming out lol i only get 1000ks out of my tyre and that sorta shit, id like to see those guys ride......

[CHOPPA]

To learn to push and slide the front tyre,and to crash a lot - you need to do some flattrack,like the real pro's do.Get on a hard pack clay track with a blue groove - toss it into the corner with no brakes,the bike will two wheel drift and as you approach the apex the front tyre will be very loaded and slide.Lots of fun - and you will no longer be afraid of a front wheel slide.The tyres will howl....and I've paced out more than 3 metres of black marks from the front wheel several times.

Didnt think about that type of riding! Have done similar on mx bikes on super hard tracks like puke with blue groove but never had enough practice on a single corner to get it even close to down, that shit looks like fun!

[lostinflyz]

To learn to push and slide the front tyre,and to crash a lot - you need to do some flattrack,like the real pro's do.Get on a hard pack clay track with a blue groove - toss it into the corner with no brakes,the bike will two wheel drift and as you approach the apex the front tyre will be very loaded and slide.Lots of fun - and you will no longer be afraid of a front wheel slide.The tyres will howl....and I've paced out more than 3 metres of black marks from the front wheel several times.

while were here what is a blue groove??

[lostinflyz]

I wouldnt like to be sliding the front end and i wouldnt recommend trying it cause its not gonna be fast, i can feel the front pushing in corners but my logic is that means your about on the limit... Maybe thats what seperates the good guys they let the front push that little bit more but sliding? I reakon that comes just before scratching. Even on the dirt sliding the front wheel is far from ideal

my understanding is the idea is to head into a corner too hot and slide the bike the scrub speed off. so hitting the corner at pace and slidding towards the apex so you can be tipped in and turning while losing speed. at least thats the rough explanation of how i understand the whole thing working.

[scott411]

while were here what is a blue groove??

Bluegroove is refering to when dirt gets that hard it gets rubber marks on it, fairly comman in flat track, not that comman in motocross in NZ, only track that really gets it is the pukekohe motorcycle club track at Harrisville

[Motu]

The blue groove on a motorcycle track is narrow,usually one bike wide.To slip the groove puts you into to loose stuff which is slower.I used to ride on a car track on race day....we did our races after the last car race before the water truck went out - the groove was very wide,but rough.There is a lot of traction on the blue groove - I've never leaned a bike so far over as I could on the groove.

The reason the American riders were so dominant in GP for many years was because they learned to ride on the dirt tracks.They learned to steer with the rear wheel,and to push the front wheel to the max....and possibly more importantly they were more experienced in varying conditions.Kenny Roberts used to teach road racers by making them ride small bikes on dirt tracks.

[lostinflyz]

The blue groove on a motorcycle track is narrow,usually one bike wide.To slip the groove puts you into to loose stuff which is slower.I used to ride on a car track on race day....we did our races after the last car race before the water truck went out - the groove was very wide,but rough.There is a lot of traction on the blue groove - I've never leaned a bike so far over as I could on the groove.

The reason the American riders were so dominant in GP for many years was because they learned to ride on the dirt tracks.They learned to steer with the rear wheel,and to push the front wheel to the max....and possibly more importantly they were more experienced in varying conditions.Kenny Roberts used to teach road racers by making them ride small bikes on dirt tracks.

begining to get an idea for all this. when i imagine a dirt track it involves large amount of mud. obviously thats not the case. Is interesting to here your comments re leaning on the blue groove. Sounds like this would help you follow lines better too

Often wondered about the long dominance of yank riders. Understandably Roberts began the loose riding style but youd figure by Schwantz/rainey time that would have been well sorted. why have aussies made good riders for so long too (gardner/doohan/stoner)???

[Ocean1]

begining to get an idea for all this. when i imagine a dirt track it involves large amount of mud. obviously thats not the case. Is interesting to here your comments re leaning on the blue groove. Sounds like this would help you follow lines better too

Often wondered about the long dominance of yank riders. Understandably Roberts began the loose riding style but youd figure by Schwantz/rainey time that would have been well sorted. why have aussies made good riders for so long too (gardner/doohan/stoner)???

If you want to know where the limit is you have first to cross it. Lots. Some of those that do so end up being very useful riders.

Riders with significant dirt experience are well under-represented in both road accident and fatality statistics.

Not sure if it's exactly correct but I was one told by an ex world champoin that every major track world champion was first at least a national dirt title holder, the sole exeption being Giacomo Agostini.

That was before Rossi though, I believe he did all his crashing on toys.

[The Stranger]

And just like a double ended dildo, Two people can get their rocks of with one at the same time.

Hey, what goes on between 2 concenting sidecar racers is none of our business.

[sidecar bob]

Hey, what goes on between 2 concenting sidecar racers is none of our business.

Come to our "have a go" day in October & scrivy will show you first hand what goes on.
I bet you dont show tho.

[scrivy]

Hey, what goes on between 2 concenting sidecar racers is none of our business.

DUDE, WHO SAYS I CONSENT????!!!!
When sidecar bob has got the 'angry on' best you stay outta his way. He will roger anything in his path........
I have learnt to stay clear!!!!

[R1madness]

Put some crash bungs on your bike. Find a big unused carpark. do lots of slow speed circles steadily increasing speed and lean angle but keep the turning circle tight. get your knee down. gently increase speed while keeping the turning circle tight. load up the suspension by increasing speed. Feel for the handle bars to go light and try to turn themselves in. Hold the bars steady dont freek out. this is called pushing the front. It will start to sledge next, then slide, then wash out. You can save it by pushing your knee into the ground harder and holding the handlebars firmly to stop them tucking under. Practice makes perfect.
Dont blaim me if you hurt yourself trying tho.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

my understanding is the idea is to head into a corner too hot and slide the bike the scrub speed off. so hitting the corner at pace and slidding towards the apex so you can be tipped in and turning while losing speed. at least thats the rough explanation of how i understand the whole thing working.

be careful about receiving advice. advice from those who you race against and win wont tell you everything and average riders or worst will give you the wrong advice (they are at the back for a reason you know)!

sliding towards the apex will only slow you down and make you focus on keeping upright when you should be focused on hitting the apex tight and getting on the gas ASAP.

[racefactory]

Put some crash bungs on your bike. Find a big unused carpark. do lots of slow speed circles steadily increasing speed and lean angle but keep the turning circle tight. get your knee down. gently increase speed while keeping the turning circle tight. load up the suspension by increasing speed. Feel for the handle bars to go light and try to turn themselves in. Hold the bars steady dont freek out. this is called pushing the front. It will start to sledge next, then slide, then wash out. You can save it by pushing your knee into the ground harder and holding the handlebars firmly to stop them tucking under. Practice makes perfect.
Dont blaim me if you hurt yourself trying tho.

That's awesome I can't wait to try that!

[FROSTY]

When I was a kid, I used to take my 50cc bike out to the frozen lakes. I had snow tyres with studs on the rear. The best condition was clear ice with powder snow on top of it that would make it hurt less when you crashed. I loved sliding on the ice, you actually had lot of control.

Of course, this was 15 years ago. Now I'm old and scared, so I've never tried to do any sliding with my road bike on the track.
Maybe if I get powder snow again... :whistle:


Watch what you wish for my son. The minefeild just might oblige :devil2:

Before I realised it was illegal I would take my trail bike onto the hard sand at murawhai-slide it till I fell off then get back on and slide it again--good fun

[skaz]

be careful about receiving advice. advice from those who you race against and win wont tell you everything and average riders or worst will give you the wrong advice (they are at the back for a reason you know)!

sliding towards the apex will only slow you down and make you focus on keeping upright when you should be focused on hitting the apex tight and getting on the gas ASAP.

This all comes from a story I was told and then retold to lostinflyz...

I was talking to a long time friend of my fathers who used to race back in the days when Simon Crafar was racing in NZ, when levels used to be somewhat shorter than it is now.

He was telling me that he was talking to Simon in the pits about the (then) corner off the straight at levels, which he explained to me was a big fast double apex style corner.

Simon explained to him that he had figured out that the trick was to bomb into it really really quick, and slide both wheels through the 1st bit of the corner to scrub off enough speed to tighten it up and get good drive out. :eek5:

He didnt believe Simon and so was invited to sit behind him for a demonstration in the next session, and he said that sure enough, Simon headed into the corner, both wheels sliding, then picked it up and dissapeared into the horizon.

Impressive stuff I thought, not something Im hellishly keen to give a lash thats for sure.