My KTM is sad

[tommorth]

Was out at woodhill today haveing a great time zooming around some blue trails
when it started making a taping sound not load but noticable probibly 20 seconds later she tightend up and seized. After some swearing and some pushing I found somone who towed me back big thanks to that guy !! pushing in wet boots and gear sux.
Im at a bit of a loss as to why this happend seemed to be running fine
pulled the head and barrel off top of the piston is lunched ,crank is seized solid . I think the barrels ok not scratched although it looks like it may be cracked between exaust port and the small round ports on ether side

anyone got an idea ?

[Paulus]

Looks (and sounds) like detonation. Jetted too lean or an air leak maybe.

[Ixion]

Detonation. Preignition. Two strokes. It's what they do, is why we luvs them so :love:

[4stroke]

i think i saw you come back on the quad with the lil trailer.
barty5 rupecop and cheese were out there to ohh and rupecop mrs on a kx85.
if you take it to a engine recon place they should be able to do a crack test on it.

[Reckless]

i think i saw you come back on the quad with the lil trailer.
barty5 rupecop and cheese were out there to ohh and rupecop mrs on a kx85.
if you take it to a engine recon place they should be able to do a crack test on it.

Jeepers we should be more organised!!!!!! I stayed home as I didn't think anyone from KB would be out there?? Bugger it!!!!! What do you think KB is for Grrrrrrr!!
Bummer Tommorth!
Pre ignition won't make the crank Seize and put those ring shaped the pits in the head. Looks to me like a bit of the ring or something has been bouncing around in the top end then locked it up! or then gone past into the crank area and locked the big end. Is the big end still locked up with the Barrell off???
Also have a look at the plug colour to give you an idea how lean it was running when it crapped out!!

Either way cancel your cheque and get on the phone and find out what the bloody hell the guy did to it before you bought it!! It should have lasted more than an hour unless you altered something before you rode it.

Fuck that's a bummer!!!

[theblacksmith]

Bits of piston skirt cracked off maybe? lodged in crankase and some might have come up through ports into chamber?? One theory. Check bottom of piston.Bummer aye.

[gammaguy]

probably done a big end and the marks are where the bits of bearing hammered the piston crown before escaping thru the exhaust ports.

stripdown the whole engine and check it out,find out why it did it or it will do it again after you rebuild it.which sucks.

[tnarg]

Shit thats not cool, first ride on bike and it dies. Ring the guy and see what the deal is. Did you check the bike out before riding it ie: water.oils etc ?

[barty5]

fuel mix ok???

[laserracer]

Sorry to hear about the new bike,i bet you were mad:angry2:As long as you havent tampered with it since purchase and are useing the right premix.. i would contact the guy who sold it to you you maybe able to work out a deal ...or theres always small claims court

[Reckless]

i would contact the guy who sold it to you you maybe able to work out a deal ...or theres always small claims court

Yeh I would too!! If its the bike that had the add on headlight, sounds like he likes to have a fiddle and could have done the engine work himself. If you don't know to do the end gap on the ring B4 fitting it or are just to tight to replace the C clips in the top pin or don't turn them in the groove so the gap is opposite the hole, its the little things can cause this sort of stuff. Get onto him pronto so he knows it crapped put after an hour even if he spends some of the money you gave him to buy the parts it'll be a help for you!!

[tommorth]

fuel mix was 40-1 tts and 98 from bp only thing i did was take the lights off and change the fuel line as it was staritng to split and clean the plug.
The guy seemed very genuine dont think he really wanted to sell it
I had a pretty good look at it before i bought but im not an expert it seemed rich if anything heaps of spooge . I talked to him earlyer today think he's gonna stump up some but probably not a huge amount .

gammaguy The marks in the top of the piston and the head look like somthing has been bouncing around even some small rectangular bits still stuck in the piston and fixing the broken bits then having it happening again is what I'm worried about .

tryed taking a pic of the plug but the flash makes it white but its black with coppery spots on it

any recomendations of a place to get to rebuild the crank?

[Rupe]

any recomendations of a place to get to rebuild the crank?

I see your out west, so try to avoid the one in helensville.

[gammaguy]

yup,shes done a big end for sure.its a wear and tear thing although many factors can exaggerate it.use the best oil you can and also dont run it too lean or too rich.with a 2T,carburation is King.

get it rebuilt by someone with a good reputation,i could point you at a good place here in CHCH but probably not much help to you up there.:doctor:

[cheese]

Spectrum are pretty good, but generally flat out.

[camchain]

That's a rotten thing to have happened tommorth. Hard not to think that guy you bought it from knew something was off about it, especially as he's apparently so willing to cough up some dough?
Probably way off and only guessing here, but could very old fuel sitting in tank possibly have anything to do with with this sort of damage? Maybe he got a partial seize when he started it after sitting a long time. Could crank still be OK? Pull the barrel off. On the plus side, if it was a lunched 4 stroke you'd be looking at a much bigger repair bill. Don't let this get you down. Thankfully 2 stroke is a simple engine. You'll be back up and running soon.

[tommorth]

I drained the fuel and carb as soon as I got it home for that reason .When I got there he started it up and fanged up and down the street doing wheelstands etc so I really think he is genuine
I have the barrel off and the rod is very stuck piston looks fine below the top ring which is jamed wont be sure about the crank till I split the cases.Looks like a rodkit at least

All the bits is why i didn't buy a fourstroke although I have rebuilt a fourstroke and not a 2t so maybe this wont be so bad .

At least once its done it will be sweet for ages and I'll be sure that its good.

[cheese]

I foudn a second hand crank on eBay???

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-KTM-300-EXC-300EXC-200-250-Crankshaft-Crank-Shaft_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1015Q7c39Q3 a1Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q 2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem140258664956QQitemZ1402586649 56

[Reckless]

Doubt very much you need a new crank! Just a rod kit. The most important thing is to get the two halves set up correctly once the rod has been put in. They have to be the correct width apart and lined up with special measuring tools. There is an art to that. Well when your blueprinting a kart engine there is! But everything else is OK to do yourself if your confident enough.

Bummer man! Its not to often a 2 smoker shits itself like that! Mostly when you change a piston or ring you would check the rod and notice it needed doing. Thats very bad luck!

[idleidolidyll]

lucky it's a 2 stroke; it'll only cost a few hundred to fix probably.

If that were a 4 smoke blow job you'd be looking at thousands

[crazyxr250rider]

I rebuilt a 250sx crank for a mate was easier than i thought (prob did it the wrong way but its still going....) pressed out the old pin, threw old rod into paddock with rusted out holdens and a bedford truck, cleaned the webs, put new pin in freezer and webbs in boiling water,placed one web in press and installed new pin into web, installed new con rod, thrust washers and big end bearing then pressed on other web as straight as possible with two .9mm feeler gauges in between the web and thrust washer to give it some clearance then I stuck the crank in the some v-blocks to check if it was straght,it wasnt (time for a cup of tea...). On advice from this site I held the crank in the Lathe wacked it with a big soft hammer on the bad side then rechecked in v-blocks with a dial gauge,sweet as was going the next day!

[gammaguy]

which is why we love two strokes....

the four stroke guys would still be measuring their bearing clearances and valve stem wear,while we are out RIDING!:rockon:

[barty5]

which is why we love two strokes....

the four stroke guys would still be measuring their bearing clearances and valve stem wear,while we are out RIDING!:rockon:

then they catch up and pass yah

[crazyxr250rider]

Yea, im over rebuilding my YZF so often.
Getting me a RMZ450 when the YZF sells and a RM250 01 for a hack when I get the money for the XR.Holy shit its guna be Poozukis all round!!!

[secondfield]

Welcome to RMZ fourfitty club bro... the most fun ive ever had on two wheels (one, more often than not!). Seems like guys are riding these things to the edge.

NZ mx1 champs (Hurley)
NZ enduro champs (not even an enduro bike!)

and good ole' Paul Whibley smashing through the GNCC series without the need for a flywheel weight!! :woohoo:

[tommorth]

received some prices today
5233 000 5300 Cylinder $1143.98 5233 013 7000 Cylinder Head seal ring $12.70
5233 700 1200 Intermediate Flange $169.99
5233 704 6100 Intermediate Gasket $9.43
0770 440 030 O-Ring $5.96 x2
5233 706 2144 R.H.S. Control Shaft CPL $69.27
5233 706 1144 L.H.S. Control Shaft CPL $69.27
5033 000 6000 Cylinder Head $171.20
5233 003 7000 Cylinder Head Gasket $15.58
5033 003 5075 Cylinder Base Gasket $9.24
5233 001 5000 Conrod Kit $475.36
5233 000 7000 l Piston Kit $258.29
'' '' ll '' '' '' '' Depends if the top of the piston has one notch or two


0770 250 020 O-Ring $ .80
0760 324 564 Shaft Seal (rhs) $17.42
0760 253 570 Shaft Seal (lhs) $20.97
5033 008 2000 Shaft Bearing (rhs) $101.46
0625 063 055 Shaft Bearing (lhs) $41.00

5230 500 9100 Exhaust Pipe $840.10


prox rod kit is $238 so I think I'll go that way instead of genuine
cylinder and pipe prices are because my bore is damaged cracked both sides of exhaust port and dented around ports. So I wanted a a cylinder price for comparison and it turns out the 03 cylinder has superceded my one and means useing a different pipe lol. I think ill get mine welded and replated

Has any one used this place http://www.engineservices.co.nz/index.htm
would be nice not to have to send it to the states

have heard good thigs about those rmz450s

[barty5]

i was going to use them for my yz125 im selling but it was cheaper to buy new from the states they wanted 650+ to replate if your not in the bike trade and 450 + if you were which i can be when needed let us know if you do use them should be able to get it done at the cheaper price for you.
I would check prices in the states try some on line bike shops shipping is only bout an xtra $50i I was quoted 800 and some for new barrel ended up costing 250 US plus fr all up was about $330 nzd just keep orders under $400 or you have to pay duty split your orders up.

[tommorth]

barty thanks i might take you up on that have sent off a couple of emails for prices
us chromes website says $237 us or about $340 nz plus postage to strip weld and replate a bore im waiting for a reply from langcourt and the place in chch

have put up a pic off the bore but its almost impossibe to see the cracks they are very small

[Rupe]

0760 324 564 Shaft Seal (rhs) $17.42
0760 253 570 Shaft Seal (lhs) $20.97
5033 008 2000 Shaft Bearing (rhs) $101.46
0625 063 055 Shaft Bearing (lhs) $41.00




Hey barty, would this guy be able to get these from a bearing shop???

Worth trying, as it saved me a few $$$$, I used Auckland bearing, diana drive, glenfeild.

[telliman]

man i get nervous when reading this thread!

[xen]

5033 008 2000 Shaft Bearing (rhs) $101.46

thats an expensive bearing, place I got mine from: Precision Bearings & Transmission 110 Mays Rd Onehunga, they should be able to do them and seals for cheaper.

Damn did quite a bit of damage then, what would you look for so it doesn't do it again, leak test?

[barty5]

Hey barty, would this guy be able to get these from a bearing shop???

Worth trying, as it saved me a few $$$$, I used Auckland bearing, diana drive, glenfeild.

as long as the bearing are V rated (automotive) youshould be fine when i did my TT600 Yamaha wanted $85 for the balance shaft bearing i ordered it then found out it had been super seeded to a 6305 bearing cost me $9.50 trade only thing you need to check on is if the are sealed bearing on to big a deal to remove seals and clean out.

[warewolf]

Watch your bearing matches if you go to a bearing place. In my experience, the stupidly-expensive KTM bearings are non-standard sizes, that will be either expensive or unobtainable at a bearing place. All those extra letters & numbers on the bearing part numbers can mean important things.

I spoke to a 2T fellah yestdy about my 200; he suggested that the black-caged ProX big-end bearings aren't the best at high rpms, he normally replaces them with silver-caged bearings, suggested I get the KTM bearing... but it's not listed as a separate part.

[Rupe]

6305 bearing cost me $9.50 trade only thing you need to check on is if the are sealed bearing on to big a deal to remove seals and clean out.


Didn't need to with my crank bearings, I was given the option. Oh and that oven a freezer trick you told me worked primo

[tommorth]

those bearing are expensive I think this one 5033 008 2000 Shaft Bearing (rhs) $101.46 is an odd size read somthing on the ktmtalk site about it being 4mm wider than a standard bearing
warewolf interesting about the prox rod bearing have you tryed geting the ktm bearing seperate? its not listed as a seperate part but you never know .

Im going to start pulling the bottom end apart today cleared a bench in the garage and wired up an extra light .Does anyone have a suggestion on where to get a puller for the flywheel ? size is m27x1.0

[Rupe]

.Does anyone have a suggestion on where to get a puller for the flywheel ? size is m27x1.0

You can borrow mine, or order one from cycletreads. They are not expensive.

[crazyxr250rider]

Get a Hot Rod kit stronger than standard and cheaper.

[theblacksmith]

I replaced every bearing and seal in my sons kx125(including all gearbox and clutch housing seals and bearings) for just under $160 - from SMP bearings in Hamilton
Their details are-
SMP Bearings Ltd,
Hamilton
24 Devon Rd.
Hamilton, New Zealand
Sales Ph. +64-7-847 5009
0800 888 678
Website - http://www.smpbearings.co.nz/

Ask for Della - what she doesnt know about bearings isnt worth knowing.
Cheers.

[crazyxr250rider]

Holy crap thats cheap!!

[tommorth]

rupecopp cheers for the offer borrowed one from zen today came straight off woohoo ! Got the clutch basket off after some swearing ended up puting motor back in the frame chain on in gear and rear brake on

just gotta find away to get the nut that holds the primary gear on the crank any suggestions??

blacksmith thats bloody cheap

[barty5]

rupecopp cheers for the offer borrowed one from zen today came straight off woohoo ! Got the clutch basket off after some swearing ended up puting motor back in the frame chain on in gear and rear brake on

just gotta find away to get the nut that holds the primary gear on the crank any suggestions??

blacksmith thats bloody cheap

if it has another gear it run agaist sometimes a copper washer resonable size jamb in between can help to lock it up less likely to cause damage usin copper washer. Altough i have found somtime even if free spins a rattle gun (quick brust can be just enough to shake them loose)

[tommorth]

cheers sometimes I miss the blatantly obvious

[Reckless]

yep I've taken the correct socket up the the local tyre place before and got them to put their grunty rattle gun on and that has done the trick in the past.

The other way is? Because you are dealing with a shagged crank you can put a cold chisel or something between the two halves at the crank pin and the case. As it turns it will jam and stop the crank from turning and lock it up. Then you can either get a strong arm onto it or an impact driver. I only suggest the above because your doing a complete recon I wouldn't do it if you are leaving the crank alone.

[barty5]

cheers sometimes I miss the blatantly obvious

we all do i spent 1/2 hr other day trying to get a part out of a car got pissed off and let it go in disgust walked to go do something else for a while to get away from it dam thing fell out the bloody bottom of the engine bay id had already tried that way too>:angry2::brick:

[jt119]

had a yz that looked the same just to long on the piston thers a guy ontrade me sales pistons for 120 and botney honda do cranks for about 90 you just need the hotrod kit ther about 250 new seals and main bearings and should be away again