Motogp riders suggestions for speed reduction.

[Cajun]

MotoGP riders suggest five ways to reduce MotoGP cornering speeds.

According to Spanish sports website as.com five suggestions were put forward by the MotoGP riders to help reduce cornering speeds, during their meeting with Dorna CEO Carmelo Ezpeleta and Riders' Safety Representative Franco Uncini on Saturday evening at Brno.

As predicted, the options include the introduction of a control tyre and new limitations on electronics - albeit in the form of a ban on 'fly by wire' technology, which has removed a direct mechanical link (cable) between the throttle and engine, rather than the use of a standard ECU.

The full list of ideas, which will be presented to the Grand Prix Commission, are as follows:

1. Introduce a single control tyre.

2. Increase control of the throttle by the rider (by removing fly by wire technology).

3. Use narrower tyre rims.

4. A possible return to 990cc engines, but with a limit on top speed.

5. Stay with 800cc, but increase motorcycle minimum weight.

AS reports that the Michelin riders, who have struggled badly at the last two rounds, were unanimously in favour of a control tyre rule, with 'a majority' of the Bridgestone riders in favour.

The switch from 990cc to 800cc was made for the 2007 season in order to reduce top speeds, but the more nimble 800cc prototypes are able to corner faster - forcing circuits to increase the amount of run-off available, something that cannot continue indefinitely.

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/18082008/23/riders-suggestions-speed-reduction.html
--------------
What are your guys/girls thoughs on this?

[scorry]

Yeah im all for getting rid of traction control, some interesting stuff tho cheers

[k14]

Bring back crossply's!!

[wharfy]

Hmm.. bit of a conundrum, I have no desire to see the best riders in the world splatter themselves all over the safety barriers.
But - limiting the technology will take away a lot of the incentive for manufacturers to compete. ( including tyre, and other "parts" manufacturers ). Making the technology go "backwards" would turn motogp into some sort of "post classics" class ( no offence to "postie" racers )

A lot of the technology developed for motogp finds its way into street bikes.
Having started in the era of drum brakes and electrics by Joesph Lucas (the prince of darkness) personally I am looking forward to the day when traction control, ABS and suspension that "really" works are standard on all bikes (like fuel injection, electronic engine management and decent brakes )

Maybe if the tracks were made slower e.g. more turns, tighter turns (maybe some ripples in the turns like Manfield :) ) then the manufacturers can go all out to make their bikes the best for those types of circuits where outright horsepower ( Kilowatts doesn't sound right ) is not the deciding factor.

But hey I am only a clubmans racer I wouldn't even throw my leg over a 250 HP bike never mind ring its neck. :scooter:

[Tony.OK]

Look at what removing technology has done for the Formula 1 cars, they took away abs etc and now its much tighter racing again. The drivers have to step up and show their metal.
Watching the Laguna round when they were showing the throttle and brake graphics really showed that the electrikery was a big part of the racing, Casey was 100% throttle at the apex whereas Rossi was alot gentler getting on the gas, so was Casey's traction control better? Or is he a better rider?

I know racing at top levels is always evolving but I kind of think of bike racing as being raw talent as opposed to computers winning the battle.
Do like the idea of a control tyre though........a more even playing feild and would show which teams can get the best setups.

[Cajun]

Watching the Laguna round when they were showing the throttle and brake graphics really showed that the electrikery was a big part of the racing, Casey was 100% throttle at the apex whereas Rossi was alot gentler getting on the gas, so was Casey's traction control better? Or is he a better rider?


Yeah that was interesting, i had the race in avi format and watched those sections a couple of times, even tho casey was behind, rossi, he would wack it 100% 3-4 secs before rossi, and in turn rossi rolled on smoothly. so it was a good 5-6 secs before rossi was at 100%

[fatzx10r]

they could all just ride kawasaki's :bash:

[BarryG]

I think there are rider aids and then there are 'rider aids' and they're different for each rider, or different settings anyway. I think it's as much what the rider prefers as anything, Rossi's settings are (by the look of the video) a lot different to Casey's.
And it's not as if the electronics are really making the bikes safer, when you look at the crashes Lorenzo has had, Capirossi and Hopkins too - there are a lot of times when the rider maybe wants the back wheel spinning, and then times when he doesn't, but the electronics seem to get a bit confused as to what is needed when.
Neil Hodgson had a big highside on Saturday, and it looked like the rear stepped out and was spinning, and then the power dropped, the tyre gripped, and sent Neil over the bars in a big way. He said afterward that he really could have got away with it if the tyre had kept spinning, but the black box said 'uh, uh' and sent him off.
I'm not sure what the riders mean by 'limiting top speed', I don't get that at all. Rossi apparently came up with 'use a throttle cable again', and that makes a certain amount of sense. Bigger engines, more power, skinnier tyres could work.

Cheers
Barry

[steveyb]

600 cc 4 cyls 4 str in top class!!!!!!!!!!!

[wharfy]

600 cc 4 cyls 4 str in top class!!!!!!!!!!!

I would be interesting to see how much performance they could get out of a 600.

[Masterchop]

The 250's are changing to 600 4 strokes in the next few years.

[riffer]

Traction Control has got to go, and the control tyre is a great idea too.

As for the step up to 990cc again, could be good.

Is it possible, however, to bring in a minimum weight for a crankshaft? Given that the reciprocating mass inside the motor has a huge part to play in the ability of a bike to turn faster (ie the GSXR600 is only 1 or 2 kgs lighter than the GSXR1000 but will move from side to side faster) could a heavier flywheel help?

How about a handicap on minimum rider + bike weight too? I always thought that Pedrosa punk had too much of an advantage but after Brno I'm not convinced any more.

So...

remove traction control
control tyre
minimum rider + bike weight

I agree with.

[rsnut]

Increase the weight, lower the engine size & limit fuel usage. A combination of these would work. The 800cc may only need another 5 - 10 kg to slow the current crop of midgets down for the next season.
Push the new technology - its all about prototype racing.

[svr]

Why is cornering speed such and issue for 800's. Don't 250s & 125s still corner faster? Also, most motogp tracks are built for the 6 g or so of F1 cornering, not the 1.3 g or whatever of motogp. The issues of runoff occur when a bike `goes straight on' at very high speed e.g. a racing incident or a crash on the brakes in the rain (e.g. Pedrosa).
Around 1990 the same discussion came up and the 500 riders said "125s crash the most and have the most injuries - they have skinny tires and no power. Instead of limiting the bikes can we please just get the walls moved back..."

[gav]

Yeah, not sure how narrower rims would help? Not like 250's are that slow through corners?
Traction control needs to go but be interesting to see how they can monitor this?
Not too keen on a one tyre rule, why not abandon the tyre limit rules and go back to how it use to be, let Michelin fly in specials if they want or need?

[Chrislost]

Yeah that was interesting, i had the race in avi format and watched those sections a couple of times, even tho casey was behind, rossi, he would wack it 100% 3-4 secs before rossi, and in turn rossi rolled on smoothly. so it was a good 5-6 secs before rossi was at 100%

you may also note that rossie pulls away from stoner with 2/3 the throttle setting that stoner has.

bahahaha at rossie is back up where he should be!1!

[codgyoleracer]

Limit to four gears in the box

[Chrislost]

Limit the noise...
and perhaps lower the rpm.

won't slow corner speed though

[ajturbo]

make them use the tyres that we SS racers have to...

[F5 Dave]

Was flicking through & thinking about Peter Clifords idea, but C.O.R. has beat me to it. 4 gears is a great idea. -Ultimately limits the amount of power that can be made as they have to concentrate on making wide power spread bikes, would use more fuel too. The useful road spin off is factories may invent more technology aimed at spreading power curves rather than the wheezy 600s with all top end & nothing else (but retain 5-6 spd for road of course).

The issue with traction control making the corner speeds more dangerous, even though 250s corner faster is (in my meagre understanding) that it is felt that it is so hard to crash on the way out of a corner, (you just slam open the throttle & let the ICs do the tyre slip regulation, if you believe the articles one reads) that the only way to make up speed is to enter at greater speeds, more-so than is wise on a big heavy diesel.

Limiting to 4 gears may alleviate this to an extent as it would limit the peak power & acceleration, thus would have to slow the top speed meaning this shenanigans would at least be having to be judged from a lower speed before braking.

Sorry if my comprehension for writing understandable sentences is a bit off today.

Or I could just say Bring back the 500s!

[Scouse]

600 cc 4 cyls 4 str in top class!!!!!!!!!!!then they would be slower than the 250's

[svr]

Was flicking through & thinking about Peter Clifords idea, but C.O.R. has beat me to it. 4 gears is a great idea. -Ultimately limits the amount of power that can be made as they have to concentrate on making wide power spread bikes, would use more fuel too. The useful road spin off is factories may invent more technology aimed at spreading power curves rather than the wheezy 600s with all top end & nothing else (but retain 5-6 spd for road of course).

Dunno. Max. power (= revs) would still be important of course. Wouldn't the manufacturers just focus on over-rev capacity so gears could be held longer?
Doubfut that 4 speed boxes would result in nice lazy motors...

[F5 Dave]

Well revs have a natural limit that can only be encompassed upon with material & technology advances, most of these are close to the limit for the time being as we've seen with a few blow ups. So I don't see that they are going to be wanting to rev them any further & if they do the peak could be tuned closer to the top for more power.

If you gave an existing bike a 4 speed box it would drop off power when changed to the next highest gear (would also give the slipper clutch some more to think about changing down) so would accelerate much slower. So either they come up with some trick to make the power curve much wider, or they compromise peak power to make the power curve wider.

Either way mechanical advantage is against them & slower acceleration (and given a racetrack's confinement) slower ultimate speed will result.