Get ready for the return of toll booths

[Bren]

I remember the days long ago when crossing the harbour bridge required you to dig into your pocket...those days are set for a return if national is elected into power...


New roads around Auckland might be paid for by tolls on drivers who use them if National wins the election.
The party's transport spokesman, Maurice Williamson, said yesterday that commuters could face bills of up to $50 a week for tolls of $3 to $5 a trip on new motorways or similar "roads of national importance".
But he believed that most people, if given a choice between tolls or queuing on free roads, would gladly pay.


I'm so glad I dont live in auckland now...



Full story here (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10528807)

[Quasievil]

Sooner we bring in private roads into the country the better, works in most countries around the world, I have no problem with it, if you dont like it use the clogged public roads.
Give us a choice, Labour = no choice just power over the people

[NighthawkNZ]

user pays... they want new roads they pay... I don't

I got nothing against the tolls... but if they hay to do the tolls as well as the petrol tax that becomes a bit tuff...

I am sure we and if we get new roads down here it will be tolled

[oscarnz]

I remember the days long ago when crossing the harbour bridge required you to dig into your pocket...those days are set for a return if national is elected into power...



I'm so glad I dont live in auckland now...



Full story here (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10528807)

Tolling is going to happen whether National get elected or not.
The new road north of Auckland, to bypass Orewa (heading north) is going to be tolled. We are going to be handling the tolling call centre at Land Transport. It is due to open early December.

[Disco Dan]

Used to have fun in England when I was a young'un ...my parents despised the toll roads and my dad whos an engineer made up some round bits of metal the same weight as the correct coins for the toll... it just had a simple pocket thing to put your coins in and measured the weight of the coins.

Bet systems changed by now though!

If there is a way around it i'll find it though, stuff paying taxes twice.

[oldrider]

Nothing wrong with tolling, user pays, you choose to use it or go the other way.

As long as they don't make us pay tolls for existing roads!

Labour does that now by taxing everyone whether you use it or not!

Auckland pays for our roads, we pay for theirs. :doh: Tougher on Auckland than on us, I reckon. :whistle:

Don't be swayed by Labour's scare mongering bullshit. :argue: John.

[k14]

The sooner they bring them in the better. User pays all the way, I don't see why I should subsidise all the wgtn commuters using transmission gully when I use it maybe 2 times a year!

The modern day "toll booth" is not what most people think. In melbourne you have a little chip thingy on your windscreen. Every time you go under a "toll bridge" it make a sound and you get sent a bill at the end of the month. I would suspect it would be a similar thing over here.

[Mully]

Meh. I agree with Tolls.

They will be on the new Northern Motorway Link. Which is a straight, boring road. I'd rather not be on that stretch on a bike anyway (other than a quick 'check it out' look).

Plus, it might keep cages off the windy roads, and mean more money to maintain said windy roads.

[nodrog]

we have one down here and its the fastest way to get into town, plus you dont have to pay if you are on your bike, you just ride around.

[Swoop]

When the harbour bridge toll booths were taken out, the crime rate went up on the shore.
I wonder if it will go down if re-introduced?:shifty:

[Headbanger]

Doesn't affect me as no new roads get built down here, But I'm a big fan of them, Its user pays and the user has the choice to go another way.

[Skyryder]

Nothing wrong with tolling, user pays, you choose to use it or go the other way.

As long as they don't make us pay tolls for existing roads!

Labour does that now by taxing everyone whether you use it or not!

Auckland pays for our roads, we pay for theirs. :doh: Tougher on Auckland than on us, I reckon. :whistle:
d roads and other road users will be forced to prop up their life style.
Don't be swayed by Labour's scare mongering bullshit. :argue: John.


I wouldn't mind if the tolls applied to all users but I see in the Press that locals will not have to pay under the Nats policy. So with the price of gas riseing it will not be economical to use an alternitive route. Under National those that do not live localy will be subsidising those that do, by paying the toll.

Pretty obvouse what's that all about. The Nats realise that land values will drop on tolled roads and other road users will be propping up their land values and life styles.




Skyryder

[Devil]

Unfortunately, if we want the good roads we'll have to pay for them. No problem as long as we fight to ensure bikes remain free, plus it'll help get traffic of the normal roads!

Clarification for people here. Tolls will ONLY go on new roads, not existing ones and there must be a reasonable alternative route if you dont want to pay a toll.

Haven't read up on the details so not aware of the local user thing. Will go do that now.

[Big Dave]

>> But he believed that most people, if given a choice between tolls or queuing on free roads, would gladly pay.<<

I believe he is living on planet Kusbain.

[The Stranger]

user pays... they want new roads they pay... I don't


We already have user pays.

How do I get in on this lark, I would love to be able to bill my customers 3 times for the same thing.

[Skyryder]

When the harbour bridge toll booths were taken out, the crime rate went up on the shore.
I wonder if it will go down if re-introduced?:shifty:


That's the other side of the equation. Road tolls, then the next step is private roads and communites like they do in the states. No doubt that crime is reduced in such areas but not in the ones that most of us will be living in.

Skyryder

[Waxxa]

:argue:I am absolutely against any road tolls, any where in the country, nth or sth islands. Tolls is a crock!!

The roads that are being built are of NATIONAL IMPORTANCE to allow our economy to benefit the best it can by lower transport costs for ALL.

We've been paying 'road tax' for years with our fuel price, and where has all that monies gone? Towards other Govt. projects other than what the tax was intended for!

Screw the tolls!! If it means going the existing way, I'll go that way instead. I'm on a motorbike, I take up very little room on the road, my vehicle weighs stuff all to damage the roads so i refuse to pay. :nono:

[xwhatsit]

This is horseshit. I'm already paying for roads from my registration, from taxes in the petrol I buy, and from my income tax. How the hell do they get off charging me again? `Public Rights of Way' my arse.

[Quasievil]

We've been paying 'road tax' for years with our fuel price, and where has all that monies gone? Towards other Govt. projects other than what the tax was intended for!


That money in part has gone to the B grade goat tracks we drive on freely every day, they will always be there, these will be mostly by pass roads that will be funded via tolls. You can refuse to pay thats no prob, you will go on the B grade road, we will go the toll road and be onto our third beer before you turn up flustered angry and road raged.
you choose:mobile:

[NighthawkNZ]

This thread discusses the Content article: PM hits out at National's roading plans (http://www.southernrider.co.nz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&Itemid=388&id=2004)


But Miss Clark today said toll roads would suck up any money people gained from National's promised larger-than-Labour tax cuts.

Well at least under National I may get a tax cut... :angry: and then more importantly I get the choice where I spend it... If I wish to use the new road cool no problem... if I choose to use public transport (Shudders at the thought) then no problem, and if I choose to use another road the my choice...

In the states, most the the new freeways are tolled (well in florida anyway) and you only pay when you use it...

If I don't use Aucklands motorway why should I have to pay for it... When I visit auckland again (Another shudder) then I am willing to pay for the motorway

Why should I pay the same amount as in for roading if I only do 10 000km a year with no tax break as someone doing 100 000 km a year, who probably got a tax break :dry:

I'm all for user pays and not just for roading either.

[Devil]

Those that are against tolls because of the money argument and what has been done with the money in the past, think of it this way:

They have to build the road to toll it. So you KNOW that the road will be built, and wont have the cash diverted off somewhere else.

I'm all for them building better roads. This is what has to happen for all the roading projects to get done.

[Clockwork]

Once you are used to putting your hands in your pockets to use new roads you can expect tolls in the form of "congestion charging" to appear on the old roads.

And if people don't use the privately funded toll roads beacuse there is a free alternative you can expect that sooner or later the private owners/investors will preasure local/national governments to make the free roads less desirable somehow (lowering speed limits perhaps or introducing choke points, traffic calming etc) And of course the local gonverments will have to comply else the next time we need a new road built the private investors will not want to particiate.

Its the start of a slippery slope I tells ya!!

Oh and don't expect any discounts on your petrol taxes and road fund licences!

[Skyryder]

Once you are used to putting your hands in your pockets to use new roads you can expect tolls in the form of "congestion charging" to appear on the old roads.

And if people don't use the privately funded toll roads beacuse there is a free alternative you can expect that sooner or later the private owners/investors will preasure local/national governments to make the free roads less desirable somehow (lowering speed limits perhaps or introducing choke points, traffic calming etc) And of course the local gonverments will have to comply else the next time we need a new road built the private investors will not want to particiate.

Its the start of a slippery slope I tells ya!!

Oh and don't expect any discounts on your petrol taxes and road fund licences!

I'm reminded of the time when ATM cards were first introduced. Transactions were free. Once the cards were 'embedded' into the public psyche then came the charges. Same thing will happen with road user charges. At first it will be new roads then introduced to pay for upgrades on existing highways.

Williamson has quoted that some will be have to pay up to $50 a week. English has denied this. So who do you believe, Williamson will no doubt become Minister of Transport and would have at least some idea of charges due to his policy import or English who tells the public one thing and privately another.

Skyryder

[Clockwork]

Ooh. and those speed cameras that were only going to snap the 15th percentile!

But we're being too cynical. Tomorrow's politicans are so much more trustworthy, yeah?

[Flatcap]

Williamson has quoted that some will be have to pay up to $50 a week. English has denied this. So who do you believe, Williamson will no doubt become Minister of Transport and would have at least some idea of charges due to his policy import or English who tells the public one thing and privately another.


Depends how many toll roads you use...

[SPman]

Toll roads - OK if they are new roads to be built and are not the only main access to a place.
But, retrospective tolls on existing roads, especially major arteries like the harbour bridge, where there are no viable alternative routes, is a major "shaft the public, they can't do fuck all about it" exercise!
Apart from paying for something that's already been paid for!
Blatant hypocrisy by whoever does it!

[Waxxa]

Qauasi "we will go the toll road and be onto our third beer before you turn up flustered angry and road raged."

Interesting Quasi, 'cause you guys will be stuck at the 'choke point', the tolls! (and a boring ride on a motorway).

And NighthawkNZ, do you really believe that money from around the country outside of Auckland is paying for Auckland roads? Get real!!

Its Aucklands economy that builds roading projects (and other major infrastructure) around NZ, north and south island! And why should anyone who visits Auckland and its region should have to pay to get around the roads, or any region. Its called domestic travel, which is being chopped at the knees by fuel prices alone. Domestic travel which feeds our tourism industry. Jobs!

The local authorities arent even providing a viable public transport option for the public as an alternative! (particularly Auckland, I think the services in Welly and Chch are quite good arent they?)

Oh, and another thing. Why arent these major projects being done 24x7 instead of this bullshit 8x5, with the cost of steel, concrete, fuel going up continuously, GET THE JOB DONE to keep costs at minimum level, so the constuction companies dont go into over-run (which they know they will) and why THEY say that for a 'road' to be built will require a toll.

The savings that are made because our goods can get around easier and cheaper, people are getting to their workplace on time hence more productivity, is the equation to look at and these projects pay for themselves over time. Why save on transport costs only to pay a toll on your goods when you drive your vehicle?

They start tolling one road then all other roads will start being tolled under the guise of maintenance and upkeep.
Where does our taxes from fuel charges come in and diesel road user charges come in?

[Squiggles]

Id be more concerned how much of the toll they put on actually goes towards roading and not towards paying for the tolling system

[Mr Merde]

That money in part has gone to the B grade goat tracks we drive on freely every day, they will always be there, these will be mostly by pass roads that will be funded via tolls. You can refuse to pay thats no prob, you will go on the B grade road, we will go the toll road and be onto our third beer before you turn up flustered angry and road raged.
you choose:mobile:

Where in NZ are these B grade roads, which area has had an upgrade to this mythological grade (here in NZ any way)

After 25 years in the UK and Europe then 6 years back here I havent seen a road in NZ that would comes near a B grade, more likely C to get C grade.

[SPman]

Well at least under National I may get a tax cut... ...

If the government gives you a tax cut, and then rips it straight back by making you pay more for roads, schools, and hospitals, are you really better off?

[Quasievil]

Where in NZ are these B grade roads, which area has had an upgrade to this mythological grade (here in NZ any way)

After 25 years in the UK and Europe then 6 years back here I havent seen a road in NZ that would comes near a B grade, more likely C to get C grade.

Yup I will roll with that....even goat grade would get my agreement.

round the corner .......Gordonton road, they spent a few months changing a corner into a nice sweeper, two months of road works, 5 months later it showed signed of radical pot holing, now we have had 5 weeks of a 30kmph sign and not even a hint of a repair......yup goat track

Im all for toll roads on the basis that a New Zealander is not involved in its construction

[James Deuce]

Meh! Ripped off by politicians.

What are you going to do about it? You have a clear choice. Vote Labour and watch your personal freedoms continue to erode, or vote National and pay twice for infrastructure, education, health, and health insurance.

Or you can rock down to Wellington, perform a bloodless coup, and watch them curl up on the floor in helpless laughter at your naivete when you demand that they hand over all the cash from the variety of taxes levied on transport infrastructure.

Sucks.

But it's better than living in Bangladesh.

[Mr Merde]

Meh! .....

Or you can rock down to Wellington, perform a bloodless coup, ...


Oh you take all the fun out of it.

What use is a politian if you cant make the bugger bleed?

[NighthawkNZ]

If the government gives you a tax cut, and then rips it straight back by making you pay more for roads, schools, and hospitals, are you really better off?


same thing with labour... giveth with one hand taketh with the other...... but in my case I don't even get the giveth with labour.

I am getting less and less in the hand and paying more...

[xwhatsit]

Why should I pay the same amount as in for roading if I only do 10 000km a year with no tax break as someone doing 100 000 km a year, who probably got a tax break :dry:

They already do -- taxes in petrol. The more petrol you use (by having a big fat heavy car and doing long distances), the more in tax you pay.

I fail to see what relevancy this has?

If Labour was introducing toll roads, you guys would be the first to cry `Soviet Russia'.

[Quasievil]

Just to keep this in perspective, they are talking about 6 odd strategic roads only, might be the Welly transmission gully, and a bunch around Auckland. Shit it might and likely will be cheaper to go down a toll road than the public road. Last year I drove trucks to TGA alot, we HAD to go through the toll road, it was cheaper to run that way than the public........perhaps Tolls will keep major trucks of the public roads in these congested areas, thereby making both sets of roads more passable ?

[avgas]

Unfortunately, if we want the good roads we'll have to pay for them.

Funny i thought we were allready?

[Devil]

Funny i thought we were allready?

'cept by tolling, if we dont like it, we dont have to use it...

[Murray]

Meh! Ripped off by politicians.

But it's better than living in Bangladesh.

I hear the summers good in Zimbabwe. Not happy here we could always move there. At least it doesn't rain every bloody weekend!!!!

[SPman]

Just to keep this in perspective, they are talking about 6 odd strategic roads only,
Depends who's doing the talking. Williamson is saying one thing, English is saying another...........

[James Deuce]

I hear the summers good in Zimbabwe. Not happy here we could always move there. At least it doesn't rain every bloody weekend!!!!
You better be of African descent and the same tribe as Mugabe, because there ain't no way a white boy is gonna own anything in Zimbabwe.

[u4ea]

Those that are against tolls because of the money argument and what has been done with the money in the past, think of it this way:

They have to build the road to toll it. So you KNOW that the road will be built, and wont have the cash diverted off somewhere else.

I'm all for them building better roads. This is what has to happen for all the roading projects to get done.

Perhaps if our money wasn't given away in dud treaty claims we would have no need for tolls anyway!!(my pre-maori nordic ancestors are stirring):headbang:


You better be of African descent and the same tribe as Mugabe, because there ain't no way a white boy is gonna own anything in Zimbabwe.

.........and the difference here is??

[James Deuce]

Perhaps if our money wasn't given away in dud treaty claims we would have no need for tolls anyway!!(my pre-maori nordic ancestors are stirring):headbang:



.........and the difference here is??

You've GOT to be shitting me.

[Quasievil]

Perhaps if our money wasn't given away in dud treaty claims we would have no need for tolls anyway!!(my pre-maori nordic ancestors are stirring):headbang:



.........and the difference here is??


My ancestors would tell your ancestors that a couple of blankets didnt quite cut it.............and now settlements are being made it should make your ancestors think......oops I guess we didnt get away with that one.

[Sanx]

You've GOT to be shitting me.

$500 million buys quite a lot of road.

[Quasievil]

$500 million buys quite a lot of road.

maybe, but youre english, your ancestors thought blankets brought alot of land but you got that one kinda well ummmm ...............WRONG

Bwaaaahahhhh

[Sanx]

maybe, but youre english, your ancestors thought blankets brought alot of land but you got that one kinda well ummmm ...............WRONG

Bwaaaahahhhh

Give us back the blankets and muskets, and you can have your land back.

[James Deuce]

Let's get one thing straight. US whalers ran the muskets and blankets economy in NZ prior to 1840 and established a paradigm that the Crown leveraged to turn into land and martial aid in inter-tribal warfare.

[oscarnz]

The sooner they bring them in the better. User pays all the way, I don't see why I should subsidise all the wgtn commuters using transmission gully when I use it maybe 2 times a year!

The modern day "toll booth" is not what most people think. In melbourne you have a little chip thingy on your windscreen. Every time you go under a "toll bridge" it make a sound and you get sent a bill at the end of the month. I would suspect it would be a similar thing over here.

Yeah sounds like that is what is going to be used here, but they are also going to have a self service kiosk at the BP just before Silverdale.

The finer details are currently being ironed out now.

[McJim]

Does this mean that we, in the South Island, can stop paying for Auckland's road network then? :Pokey:

[Quasievil]

Give us back the blankets and muskets, and you can have your land back.

I would but both items where made in England and have long since rusted and fallen apart.

[McJim]

I would but both items where made in England and have long since rusted and fallen apart.

Now we know you're taking the piss - blankets don't rust.

[Quasievil]

Now we know you're taking the piss - blankets don't rust.


mmmm true thank you for pointing that out.

[FJRider]

Does this mean that we, in the South Island, can stop paying for Auckland's road network then? :Pokey:

What do you think...:no:

[FJRider]

I would but both items where made in England and have long since rusted and fallen apart.

And family heirlooms in some familys...

[FJRider]

Now we know you're taking the piss - blankets don't rust.

Weren't the early ones made out of steel wool ..???:innocent:

[Swoop]

Weren't the early ones made out of steel wool ..???:innocent:
Yes. Ancient Maori knitted their first tank out of them. That is how they won the war.

[Forest]

In Melbourne, motorbikes ride for free on all of the toll-ways.

[Toaster]

Give us a choice, Labour = no choice just power over the people

So very well said!

[mark247]

I dont care about tolls, i take a toll road to town every day on my bike and I dont pay a cent :shifty:

[FJRider]

My ancestors would tell your ancestors that a couple of blankets didnt quite cut it.............and now settlements are being made it should make your ancestors think......oops I guess we didnt get away with that one.

As I understood it, it was not about land "sold" that settlement issues were about, but lands CONFISCATED by the goverment of the time.

[xwhatsit]

In Melbourne, motorbikes ride for free on all of the toll-ways.
Not in Brisbane though, so don't get your hopes up. Remember too that Melbourne (unlike NZ) is known to be very bike friendly.

[James Deuce]

As I understood it, it was not about land "sold" that settlement issues were about, but lands CONFISCATED by the goverment of the time.

Correct.

Like most of anywhere convenient to live, usually with good port access.