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vifferman
20th January 2005, 12:41
I figured I'd probably had the VifFerraRi long enough now to post a review, so here's a review for those of you (almost all KBers, I'd say) who've never had the opportunity to ride one.

As many of you know, I had no real intention of buying this bike - it was the result of a recent window-shopping expedition with the alien imposter the PodPeople replaced my wife with at the beginning of last year.:2thumbsup We were looking for a new helmet, but were smitten by the VifFerraRi's lustrous blue paintwork, its shiny Staintune high-mount zorst, and the way we instantly felt at home on it when test-riding it.

Major Model Revisions
The VFR800 is the fifth generation of VFRs, and was released in late 1997, as the 1998 model. As you may know, Honda generally works on a four-year major revision cycle for its significant models, with minor revisions more frequently. The major revisions for the 800 model included the following:

Engine cases as a structural member of the frame, with the single-sided swingarm pivoting directly off extensions to the rear of the cases (same for VTR1000).
Side-mounted 'pannier' radiators, to shorten engine length to enable a shorter wheelbase and quicker steering response.
EFI replacing carburettors.
Dual Combined Linked Braking System, where the brake pedal operates two pistons in the rear caliper, and one in the front, and the brake lever operates one piston in the back caliper and two in each front caliper.:confused:
Cam drive moved to right of camshafts (previously centred).
Engine capacity increased to 781 cc, by increasing bore by 2mm and decreasing stroke by 0.6 mm.
Compression ratio increased from 11.0:1 to 11.6:1.
Completely new frame and bodywork.
New 5-spoke rear wheel, wider to allow fitment of 17x180 tyre.
Digital panel in dash for fuel gauge, temperature, odometer, trip meters.
Overall weight decreased (despite all the extra gizmos) by 5 kg.
Front fork rake increased by half a degree.
Alternator output increased from 370W to 470W.
Minor Model Revisions
The 2001 model has some minor revisions from the earlier model, such as different mirrors, a new EFI system, catalytic convertor fitted, and (I think) a slightly revised DCBS system.

What'll It Do, Mister?
The first VFRs cleaned up in sportbike racing, particularly in the USA. The 800 (the RC46) was touted as oweing a lot to the RC45 racer, and while being the most powerful of the VFRs, it is not the sportbike the first VFR was, and is heavier and less grunty than most 750s. However, unlike its forebears, it is intended more as a Sport-Tourer and all-rounder than a race-replica, and has many times come top in sport-tourer comparison tests. That is not to say it's a luxobarge or slouch, though, as it can achieve a 0-100km/h time of 2.8 seconds, 0-160 in 6.7, and has a top speed of around 240 km/h. (No, I haven't been that fast, although I had one up to an indicated 225 at Pukekohe a few years ago).
The DCBS brakes require 60cm more distance than the previous model to haul the bike to a stop from 100 km/h, maybe because of the extra plumbing, valves and associated hardware. However, they are sufficiently powerful, have good feel, and it's really neat being able to stomp on the rear brake and get real stopping power.

On The Road Again
It's a bit hard to state in absolute terms what the VFR's like to ride. It's faster than the VFR750, with quicker handling and a better overall feel. It's easier to ride than the VTR1000, smoother, with a flatter torque curve, more of a top-end rush, but much less grunt below 5K rpm. It also sounds a lot busier, so the nett result is I end up going slower. Wheelies come less readily, as despite the power being the same and the weight being only slightly more than the VTR, it carries it further forward. Overall, it's less fun, but much more relaxing and comfortable, as the seat's bigger, my knees are less bent, and the reach to the 'bars is easier.

Getting It On
When the throttle is whacked open at over 5K rpm, and it's on the pace, the intakes (two) make a lovely howl, which when combined with camgear whine, and the spudless Staintune, is very spine-tingling. It will wheelie off the throttle, especially over bumps or hammering it out of corners. With the vifferbabe on the back, it's sometimes hard to keep it down. :whistle:

Sitting Comfortably?
A comment a lot of people make when first riding a VFR is that "everything is positioned just right", as it has very good ergonomics: not too upright, not too sporty. Having said that, some Olde Phart owners (older and more farty than me) complain about the ride position and fit higher bars. As soon as I sat on the VifFerraRi I decided the ride position was nearly perfect for me, and gave the GenMar risers I had fitted on the VTR to another (older, fartier) VFR800 owner. However, while the VFR has adjustable span levers, I do miss not having an incrementally adjustable gear lever like on the VTR and my old VF500.:disapint:
The fairing offers more weaher protection than the VTR, but I found the airflow over the screen is a wee bit more turbulent around the helmet, due to the screen being higher and wider. The airsteam is directed at the upper chest / shoulders, whereas on the VTR it was mid-chest. A small 'vent' below the front of the screen reduces turbulence behind the screen.
The seat is firm and OK for moderate-length trips, unlike my decrepit frame.
A little vibration comes through the left footpeg at around 4-5K rpm, but otherwise the bike is very smooth (smoother than my VFR750 was), unless you accelerate from below 3K, when it pulses in a v-twin fashion.

Feeling Thirsty?
The EFI system operates in three modes, one of which is an extremely lean-burn mode, or "closed loop". While this gives outstanding fuel economy when cruising, there is a rather annoying lag when it switches from this to the one it uses when accelerating hard. I've learned to ride around this, and it doesn't piss me off as much as it used to, especially when I can now get almost twice the fuel mileage the VTR gave. :niceone: It's also nice to know that the bike will meet future emissions testing. It'll probably pass noise tests too, as the Staintune is very quiet with the 'spud' in (but rather raspy and demonic with it out!)

Suspenders (and no bra)
The suspension is OK, but as it has only preload on the front and preload and rebound damping adjustment on the rear shock, I miss the adjustability of the VTR, which also had rebound adjustment on the front forks. If we keep the VifFerraRi long(ish) term, some upgraded suspension will definitely be on the list of mods to do.

Tahrs
It's got Bridgestone BT020's fitted front and back, which are very good, but I'd rather have a BT012 on the front, as the BT020F's tread blocks now have raised edges which buzz horribly when cranked over.

Other Stuff
The engine gets a bit hot around town; probably no hotter than previous bikes, but having the temperature display (ambient or coolant temp) set to coolant means I'm more aware of it. The fan sucks air through in the reverse direction to normal airflow, so as to not suck heated air off the engine/front header. However, this means that when commuting, it's fighting with the normal cooling. :blink:

Haven't tested the lights yet, but the grip heaters are absolutely wonderful. :love2: I'm sure that despite thinking they were unnecessary in D'Auckland, I'll really enjoy them in Winter, as I like to ride with summer gloves all year round, which makes my fingers a bit cold from the levers chilling off on cold days.
The horn sux - pathetic little beep.
Love that single-sided swingarm - very easy chain adjustment, but you pay for it with extra unsprung weight which makes the rear end thump a little bit over bumps and ripples.
I can see stuff in the mirrors, for the first time in many years. :2thumbsup
The standard airfilter (brand new when I bought the bike) is going to be replaced with a Uni, as I've got all the stuff to service Unifilters, it's cheaper, and gives better airflow.
Servicing is going to be harder than any other bike I've ever owned, as just getting the gorgeous blue tupperware off is a bit of a mission, and this has to be done to top up the coolant, change the oil, admire the engine, etc. Maybe that's a GoodThing - I know the vifferbabe thinks so, as I won't be so inclined to fiddle, and she's rather I paid someone else to do it (so I've more time to do other things...)

I don't plan on doing anything else to the bike apart from what I've mentioned, and I could easily do nothing to it apart from routine maintenance and be perfectly happy for years to come.:yes: Given the famous reliability and longevity of VFRs (apart from R/Rs - and this has got the new, improved model), we could well have this for many happy, adventurous miles yet.

However, the next VFR revision is due at the end of the year, so if it's not a VTEC, I could be interested....

merv
20th January 2005, 13:01
Having had the joys of no cam chains with mine I would like to see them return to the gear driven at the next update - but is that likely? Who knows? I suspect Honda have been hurting with sales since the 2002 model was introduced because as soon as they went to cam chains and V-Tecs nobody seemed to buy them. My 750 goes so well I'm unlikely to change it quickly anyway and after 11 years that's saying something about the bike. I'm a short arse and one thing I noticed when the 800 was first introduced is the seat was slightly higher than the 750.

jrandom
20th January 2005, 13:14
Excellent review, vifferman.

It seems that the VFR is the epitome of that quiet cul-de-sac and backwater of motorcycling, the Perfect Bike.

There are other flypaper-like cul-de-sacs in the two-wheeled world, of course. The Enormous Full-Dress Tourer and the Stinky Hogley come to mind.

But there's a certain type of individual that always appears to oscillate through various flavours of motorcycle before coming to rest on one that never stops working, goes surprisingly quickly, looks good, and never annoys creaky, abused joints.

I think the VFR is an inspired design decision, and I don't want one.

I still wouldn't mind a go on yours sometime, though ;)

vifferman
20th January 2005, 13:16
Having had the joys of no cam chains with mine I would like to see them return to the gear driven at the next update - but is that likely? Who knows? I suspect Honda have been hurting with sales since the 2002 model was introduced because as soon as they went to cam chains and V-Tecs nobody seemed to buy them.
Well, I bought the VFR750 partly because I'd had 3 Hondas with crap camchains (now 4 :angry2:), and like the character the V4s have.

I'm almost positive that despite all the hoopla surrounding the switch back to camchains and to VTEC, the REAL reason for introducing both was due to the EC noise restrictions. Give that, there's no likelihood of gear-driven cams returning.

I've read some people reckon there's a real kick when the VTEC cuts in, but I tested and tested this, riding back and forth through the cut-in point, and there was no discernible physical sensation, just a horrible WAAAAAAAH!!! as it cut in. From what I've read, there are no economy gains either, despite this also being touted, so what's the point of the extra complexity?

For me, the engine is one of the best features of the VFR, and the VTEC had lost something and gained nothing engine-wise. The chassis is great, the handling, instruments, etc. are too. The styling is modern and a subjective thing - my wife liked it, especially the front indicators, whereas they're the one feature I really didn't like. :laugh:

vifferman
20th January 2005, 13:26
I think the VFR is an inspired design decision, and I don't want one.

I still wouldn't mind a go on yours sometime, though ;)
Had to be not too picky/pokey, dincha, before throwing in that last bit? :blink:

Perfect? Nope. Good? Yup.
It should've been given better suspension (more adjustability) and a bit more power. The VTEC scored marginally better suspension, but a lot of people (mostly the PipeNSlipperBrigade) wanted the 2002 VFR to be more than what was delivered. The expectation was that it would be a road-going version of the RC-211V : V5, 1000 cc, lighter, faster, better suspended.
Instead we got new lights, an engine that was no more powerful yet more complex, trendy underseat zorsts, more nimble handling, Madonna-like breast/indicators, and (the piece de resistance) - a new and improved R/R, located somewhere that wasn't hot! Oh yeah - and a dijickle speed indicator whatsit, so the pillion could keep a close eye on the rider's velocity (the vifferbabe's favourite feature of the VTEC).

So, a lot of peoples deserted the VFR camp, and bought Fireblades/FZ-1s/FJR1300s/GS1100s etc. instead....
I'm just hoping that the rumoured V5 1200 replacement for the Blackbird is more VFR (as in VFiveR) and less Blackbird.
And that it's really pretty, so the vifferbabe will want one.:laugh:

Sensei
20th January 2005, 16:46
Nice speil . Riden a few of these in ma days great bike all ways do the shit in the shoot out's & came out on top what more do you need . Just wish they would do something with the new shape does nothing for me what so ever .But when something goes so well it's a small thing . :yes:
SENSEI

Jonty
20th January 2005, 21:09
Great review!! One question, I have a friend who is about to get rid of his silver 1997 VFR 800 (the non-VTEC model). It has about 80K on the clock, but has only been used for commuting. What are peoples opinion of this particular years model? what would it be worth? Would it be a completely different beast to a 600 inline 4?

cheers :scooter:

merv
20th January 2005, 22:12
The V4's have a beautiful spread of power and are probably different to the 600 in-lines in that respect, though modern technology has improved power bands immensely all the same.

I have the VFR750 which was the last of the carburetted versions and I can't say I have ever ridden a bike with an engine that carburetes more crisply. It is as "smooth as" on and off the throttle and with small variations of throttle opening. No chain snatch or jerkiness no matter what speed. You can run it as low as 2,000 rpm no problem, though I normally keep it at 4,000 and above, and it has quite a kick in power at 7,000 and goes on to redline of 11,500 and rev limiter about 12,000. With its 21 litre tank it will go 400kms on 91 octane fuel.

Most rides I've been on, including a couple with KB'ers I usually only need to keep it between about 4,000 and 7,000 which takes it up to about 155-160km/hr. Don't want Spud looking out for us. It will do over 240km/hr on the speedo which wouldn't be as fast as a modern 600 as they have more power and less weight. I find it such a good bike I'm in no hurry to change it.

Jonty '97 were generally 750s as the 800 didn't come out here until '98.

Value I would say a '94-'97 750 like mine they would be worth $5,000 -$8,000 depending on kms and the '98-'01 800s I guess would be worth $6,000 - $9,000. I say this because I think few would sell them at bargain prices.

vifferman
21st January 2005, 08:47
Great review!! One question, I have a friend who is about to get rid of his silver 1997 VFR 800 (the non-VTEC model). It has about 80K on the clock, but has only been used for commuting. What are peoples opinion of this particular years model? what would it be worth? Would it be a completely different beast to a 600 inline 4?

cheers :scooter:
Thanx, Jonty.

The VFRs are quite different to an inline-4 600, as the V4 engine has quite a different character to it, soundwise and performance wise, and has a bit more low-end and midrange torque, with a bit less top-end rush. The VFR800 is also a bit heavier than the 600, with similar peak HP.

In 2003, before I bought the VTR1000, I looked at exactly the same model as your friend has got (same colour too) but my wife vetoed it as it was "too boring". It had (from memory) about 65K on it, and the I think the bike shop wanted $10K for it (can't recall).
I have a friend (the one I gave the GenMars to) who bought one in Hamilton shortly after that for about $8500 I think. It's in much better condition than the one I looked at.
80K kilometres is a big mileage for most bikes, but not necessarily for a VFR, as there are some I know of that have 3 or 4 times that mileage on them. However, if the 80k is mostly from commuting shortish distances, then that's quite hard on the gearbox etc. The other thing to be aware of is that bike prices have come down a lot recently. A brand-new Blackbird is selling for $17,995, whereas in 2001 they were about $24K. A brand-new VTR1000 can be had for $14,995.

Of the VFR800s, the 1997 (actually officially the 1998 model) is not significantly different from the later ones, with a few cosmetic changes such as mirrors being the main obvious differences, and a different EFI system (the early ones had a different cold-start enrichment system, and a simpler single-mode EFI computer).

I think Merv's estimate of the price is pretty much spot on, but the exact price would depend on the condition of his bike, what accessories are fitted, etc.

vifferman
21st January 2005, 08:59
I have the VFR750 which was the last of the carburetted versions and I can't say I have ever ridden a bike with an engine that carburetes more crisply. It is as "smooth as" on and off the throttle and with small variations of throttle opening. No chain snatch or jerkiness no matter what speed. You can run it as low as 2,000 rpm no problem, though I normally keep it at 4,000 and above, and it has quite a kick in power at 7,000 and goes on to redline of 11,500 and rev limiter about 12,000. With its 21 litre tank it will go 400kms on 91 octane fuel.
The VTR1000 had very sharp and crisp carburetion too, quite amazing for a V-twin with such large carbs (48mm, the biggest Honda had ever fitted to a bike).

One of the praises/criticisms (depending on the reviewer) leveled at the VFR800 when it first came out was that the EFI metering was very precise. Personally, I found the bike easier to ride than the VTR as far as being less responsive to the throttle, but whether that is due to it producing less power at lower revs that the V2, or the EFI being revised for 2001 (same as the VTEC, I believe, but without the 12-hole injector nozzles), I can't say.

I haven't done enough trips to say how far I get on a tank, but I've seen about 320 km including some around-town riding, before the fuel gauge started flashing.




Value I would say a '94-'97 750 like mine they would be worth $5,000 -$8,000 depending on kms and the '98-'01 800s I guess would be worth $6,000 - $9,000. I say this because I think few would sell them at bargain prices.
It's actually hard to get an idea, as there are always so few advertised for sale, but you can revise your 800 prices up by as much as $3000. :eek5:

Jonty
21st January 2005, 09:11
Thanks everyone, very informative :2thumbsup

I am moving up from the ZXR in the next few months and haven't quite decided on its successor. I have been considering the CBR 600F, but have always liked the look and comfort of the VFR (from my 5 min ride of my friends). I guess it will come down to riding the both of them and seeing which one fits my style. I tend to enjoy bikes with quick excelleration and not necessarily high speed from my dirt bike days!

Good to know the VFR is a solid option, thanks again :niceone:

Hitcher
21st January 2005, 11:09
I'd love to ride a VFR at some stage. But here's the thing. Dealers don't have demos. They have bikes they want to sell you new with 0km on the clock and won't let you ride until you buy, or nothing else.

Also on my list of bikes to ride is the ZZR1200 and the new Triumph ST Sprint. I also wouldn't mind a strop on a Firestorm at some stage and even a Multistrada.

But I guess until such time as I wander into a dealership to find either a demo or a second-hander, and a cooperative retail assistant, I guess dreams are free!

The "problem" is that most bike shops are owned by people who love bikes. They don't know jack shit about marketing, selling, or customer service. In many cases that makes them a living. Good luck to them. But motorcycle retailing could be done SO much better with so little additional effort or cost. A tragic waste really.

merv
21st January 2005, 11:17
I bought the VFR partly because I am a short arse and they are quite a compact bike meaning mine fits me well and I'm only 165cm. Big guys might find them a bit cramped, especially if you are used to the ZREX or STX Hitcher.

vifferman
21st January 2005, 11:23
I'd love to ride a VFR at some stage. But here's the thing. Dealers don't have demos. They have bikes they want to sell you new with 0km on the clock and won't let you ride until you buy, or nothing else.
They don't?!?
Never been a problem for me. Maybe the dealers here are different. :spudwhat:


The "problem" is that most bike shops are owned by people who love bikes. They don't know jack shit about marketing, selling, or customer service. In many cases that makes them a living. Good luck to them. But motorcycle retailing could be done SO much better with so little additional effort or cost. A tragic waste really.
Varies.
The one I bought the VifFerraRi from seemd to be populated by sharks, who knew all about marketing, selling, and CRAP customer service. Makes them a living, but they've lost a customer.