Zero Tolerance 20/20

[Genestho]

Remember the agrophobia defence that saw a woman who killed whilst three times over the drink drive limit on Home D?

Well Tara's (the victim) story is on tonight on 20/20, her mother has emailed Crossroads, my lobbygroup.

Yet another case where our justice system has blood on its hands.

I have heard that when this woman was told she killed Tara at the scene.... apparently according to a family member of Taras, the driver said "Shit Happens" (True statement normally, but not when you kill) and has shown a lack of remorse the whole way.

According to studies - if a drink driver is caught and proccessed with at least twice the legal BAC, even at first time, the likelihood of alcohol addiction and therefore recidivism (and its particular profiling as a recidivist) increases.

In some States in Australia and countries around the world these very high BAC readings are treated and acted upon with severe sanctioning.

Not only do we neglect to send 95% of these people off for treatment and early intervention/assessment, we spit them back out onto our roads, and I know the rest.

I would think the offender in this story is a prime candidate to be kept off our roads permanently, until she has targeted treatment but instead we give her home D, and in my humble opinion - I have no doubt she will have ready access to another deadly weapon.

Makes me just feel all warm inside:blink:

[blossomsowner]

saw the programme tonight.........the accident happened about 3km from where i live. Nasty intersection too, even driving straight through you always wonder if someone is going to jump the stop sign.
the justice was non-existent.............there has been plenty of local publicity here about it.
lets hope this country eventually toughens up on drunk drivers......its way past due.

[Pussy]

I watched it and was bloody appalled. The guilty woman is being portrayed as the victim. What a crock of shit

[shafty]

Agro phobia - YEAH RIGHT

Try a week in a coffin

[yod]

Remember the agrophobia defence that saw a woman who killed whilst three times over the drink drive limit on Home D?


it wasn't a "defense", it was a determination made by the judge in conjunction with the offender being bipolar as well as agoraphobic, that meant she serves her sentence at home instead of a jail cell



I would think the offender in this story is a prime candidate to be kept off our roads permanently, until she has targeted treatment but instead we give her home D, and in my humble opinion - I have no doubt she will have ready access to another deadly weapon.



is she not receiving treatment?

[Genestho]

it wasn't a "defense", it was a determination made by the judge in conjunction with the offender being bipolar as well as agoraphobic, that meant she serves her sentence at home instead of a jail cell



is she not receiving treatment?

Sorry, my faupah - you are correct in the determination made by the Judge, based on the evidence supplied from the defence



The treatment we have available for drink driving currently is embarrassingly a "makedo scenario", I have contacts in the A and D Industry with numerous qualifications in this particular area - down in the coalface and those have been the words quoted to me. I genuinely hope she gets what she needs.

As far as treatment for bipolar, and agrophobia, thats not my area of knowledge, and no doubt they'll give her pills - seems to be the answer to everything

There needs to be a collective sharing of info between Ministry of Justice, Dept of Corrections and a good sorting out at MOH if they ever intend in sorting this carnage out and get it off our roads..10 rehab centre closed in as many years dont help.

Giving her four years disqualification from driving wont stop her, if she wants to drive she will, its just paper, and if theres no monitoring from Dept of Corrections, then I assume she will do as she wishes.

[yod]

Giving her four years disqualification from driving wont stop her, if she wants to drive she will, its just paper, and if theres no monitoring from Dept of Corrections, then I assume she will do as she wishes.

yep, so our options are, incarcerate her for life, chop various limbs off, or have someone follow her 24/7

there is no way to stop her, or any of the other hundreds of recidivists

[Genestho]

yep, so our options are, incarcerate her for life, chop various limbs off, or have someone follow her 24/7

there is no way to stop her, or any of the other hundreds of recidivists

Theres always "personal reponsibilty" (yes those foreign two words again) that people around this minority can take with awareness created, the families of the deceased and affected standing up and together, and submissions made within various legislative reviews...

I believe just in the small role I have chosen to take, and the loosely based organsiations and groups getting together, there will be a change, its happening.

[MIXONE]

I to watched the programme and it would be fair to say my blood was boiling by the end.Home detention what a joke!!!Definately no personal responsibility from her.At the end the presenter said that her sentence was being appealed.I hope she goes up before a judge with his feet on the ground next time and gets the jail time she sorely deserves.Karma takes too long for some people.

[yod]

how long should she get do you think?

[Headbanger]

couple of hundred years sounds like a good start.

[MIXONE]

I don't know how long she should get but no jail time at all is a CRIME.

[Blackbird]

I might add that the police officer was a well-known member of Kiwi Biker which some might recognise:rolleyes:

[Delerium]

Seems a bit light doesnt it, she has given the deceased's family I life long sentence. Take some responsibility for your actions. If you dont want to go to prison becuase of your agrophobia, dont DRINK AND DRIVE! That simple. It should be a case of, you wouldnt be in this small cell if you hadnt have done this, youbrought it on yourself. Shit happens. (a quote by her apparently, so mildly ironic)

[Indoo]

This is the typical treatment drink drivers get at the hands of the court. They routinely even beat the charges based on the merest irrelevant technicality in prosecution paper work. Theres no reasonableness or sense in the decisions and we dedicate a courtroom and an entire industry of lawyers who specialize in picking up minor paper work errors and structuring defenses around them manipulating poorly written legislation and procedure. Anyone who spends a day in the drink drive/traffic court room at the District Court would be amazed at what a farce the law is to these people and seeing the defenses they can get away with is sickening.

Decisions like this are what result. The law needs to be overhauled, first time drink drivers should be arrested and processed like any other criminal instead of summonsed. Second time, mandatory alcohol assessment for all offenders, compulsory treatment and a disqualification that extends until they complete that treatment and a medical professional is satisfied that they have overcome their alcohol problem. Third time, mandatory minimum 6 month jail sentence, mandatory confiscation and destruction of vehicle, sentence of disqualification and if caught driving while disqualified return to prison for another 6 months. Fourth time - long prison sentence, life supervision upon release, constant routine blood tests and any alcohol found in their system = return to prison.

It should be treated like any other crime, we don't look at drunkenly assaulting someone as an 'error' of judgment so why do we treat the deliberate act of getting behind the wheel of a lethal weapon while pissed any different.

[McJim]

The guilty drink driver has agoraphobia? Tie her to a pole on a plinth in a desert.

[Genestho]

This is the typical treatment drink drivers get at the hands of the court. They routinely even beat the charges based on the merest irrelevant technicality in prosecution paper work. Theres no reasonableness or sense in the decisions and we dedicate a courtroom and an entire industry of lawyers who specialize in picking up minor paper work errors and structuring defenses around them manipulating poorly written legislation and procedure. Anyone who spends a day in the drink drive/traffic court room at the District Court would be amazed at what a farce the law is to these people and seeing the defenses they can get away with is sickening.Decisions like this are what result. The law needs to be overhauled, first time drink drivers should be arrested and processed like any other criminal instead of summonsed. Second time, mandatory alcohol assessment for all offenders, compulsory treatment and a disqualification that extends until they complete that treatment and a medical professional is satisfied that they have overcome their alcohol problem. Third time, mandatory minimum 6 month jail sentence, mandatory confiscation and destruction of vehicle, sentence of disqualification and if caught driving while disqualified return to prison for another 6 months. Fourth time - long prison sentence, life supervision upon release, constant routine blood tests and any alcohol found in their system = return to prison.It should be treated like any other crime, we don't look at drunkenly assaulting someone as an 'error' of judgment so why do we treat the deliberate act of getting behind the wheel of a lethal weapon while pissed any different.

Well written and extremely sensible, thanks, your obviously inside the court system?

The whole returning the "weapon" at day 29 seems bloody ridiculous to me, unless we attach IID's (which the driver needs to have that privellege earned back and attached to targeted long term treatment) to physically prevent driving.

I absolutely agree with what you say here, and in particular your last sentence.

I think the big thing that is starting to happen with information recently beginning to come my way, is that recidivism (section 65 Land Transport) and drink driving is getting a decent looking into and maybe even an overhaul. I hope that there is not expected to be only the one cure for both types of drink drivers, (the oopsie I didnt realise I was over the limit types where education and transport options are the key vs high BAC content AND recidivism types - where taking them off our roads to be assessed through the courts system to have an early intervention plan) and I hope there is not a blanket legislation change that affects the majority, expected to fix recidivism as well.

This particular info does not appear to be in the sentencing area, and it looks to be an overall look at alcohol and its effects, this is a co-alation of info to be submitted by NGO's community groups, Police, MOH, MOJ, Dept Corrections in reducing alcohol related harm.

I have to admit - I can see some good ideas and aims there!

Amongst many other aims, it looks like ALAC will review its standard drinks guidlines, lowering of BAC for particular types of license holders, youth drinking, education, drink driving advertising, host reponsibilty practices, access to rehab programs and recidivism are only a very small area of this Plan.

It is acknowledging that booze is apart of NZ society, but that to be drunk and dangerously irresponsible for yourself and others needs to changed.

Since there is minorities ruining it for the majority (as always!)Lets hope some sensible solutions come out of this,and that these ideas are implemented and followed up.

[SixPackBack]

it wasn't a "defense", it was a determination made by the judge in conjunction with the offender being bipolar as well as agoraphobic, that meant she serves her sentence at home instead of a jail cell



is she not receiving treatment?

Bipolar?.....sorry all bets are off, bipolar is a life sentence by itself.

Obviously punishment is needed, but in the case of an individual with manic depression [bipolar] the best course of action is medical intervention and close monitoring.

You have to wonder if the vast majority of serious offenders would benefit from a programme of medical intervention rather than slamming them in prison with a bunch of similarly 'sick' folk!

Our system of retribution may apease the victim but does nothing long term to fix the issue.

[scumdog]

The whole returning the "weapon" at day 29 seems bloody ridiculous to me, unless we attach IID's (which the driver needs to have that privellege earned back and attached to targeted long term treatment) to physically prevent driving..

Gouge her eyes out, she won't be driving anywhere then, drunk or not.

And as she's already leeching off the welfare system it's not like it's going to cost the country any extra.

Frikking moronic driver - and frikkin moronic judge.

[Her_C4]

.....manipulating poorly written legislation and procedure. .

Good post - As I have mentioned in other threads on similar matters - this in my opinion, is at the very centre of the issue. Any legislation that has gaps and can be interpreted in various ways by various parties (Government Departments, judges legal defence teams) needs to be actively targeted and rewritten to ensure that the intent of the law is commonly understood and adhered to.

I have seen the effects of drink driving accidents from both sides of the equation and I am aware that historically a number of manslaughter charges have been laid against the perpetrator, and jail time served. I am hearing that this does not happen anymore?

The current state of our legislation in NZ is appalling and yet we keep on blaming the various agencies responsible for trying to make sense of it.

We need to actively lobby for law changes that currently allow recidivist drunk drivers that arm themselves with weapons (cars) and get back out on the road. http://www.safe-nz.org.nz/crossroads/index.html How about a clarification of the three strikes and you are out rule - we can't afford to keep being reactive AFTER someone gets killed.

You get caught - counselling / treatment should be mandatory. you get caught again and you lose your licence. You get caught drving without a licence (drunk or not) and you are closely monitored (Home D?)


It should be treated like any other crime, we don't look at drunkenly assaulting someone as an 'error' of judgment so why do we treat the deliberate act of getting behind the wheel of a lethal weapon while pissed any different.


Bipolar?.....sorry all bets are off, bipolar is a life sentence by itself.

Obviously punishment is needed, but in the case of an individual with manic depression [bipolar] the best course of action is medical intervention and close monitoring.

You have to wonder if the vast majority of serious offenders would benefit from a programme of medical intervention rather than slamming them in prison with a bunch of similarly 'sick' folk!

Our system of retribution may apease the victim but does nothing long term to fix the issue.

Prisons around the country have long become a dumping ground for those that are unfit to be released to society since deinstitutionalization took hold in this country (1980's??).

I have one word for you - Transinstutionalization

"Trends toward deinstitutionalization also reflect shifting demographics and boundaries of care. For example, decreases in inpatient mental health care can be complemented by increases in outpatient mental health care. Decreases in inpatient mental health care can also be paired with increases in other forms of care, such as social welfare, criminal justice, or nursing home care. Thus deinstitutionalization is part of a process sometimes called transinstutionalization, the transfer of institutional populations from hospitals to jails, nursing homes, and shelters. "http://www.minddisorders.com/Br-Del/Deinstitutionalization.html

[Indoo]

It is acknowledging that booze is apart of NZ society, but that to be drunk and dangerously irresponsible for yourself and others needs to changed.

Since there is minorities ruining it for the majority (as always!)Lets hope some sensible solutions come out of this,and that these ideas are implemented and followed up.

Yep thats exactly right. Alcohol is a drug which for those who abuse it has the same impact as any other illicit drug, they do things they wouldn't normally do, they harm people and they commit crime. Someone walking down the street agro and boozed at 2am is every bit as dangerous and as likely to harm people as someone on P and they shouldn't be treated any differently just because we have a skewed view as a society on alcohol.

Our sentencing laws need to start facing up to the harm alcohol does and attacking it, treat alcohol as an 'aggravating' feature rather than a mitigating feature in any crime. Introduce alcohol bans as part of sentencing in any offending fueled by alcohol for say a few years after the offense - if you come to Police attention for whatever reason within that time and your drunk its back before a judge. Those who can drink and not commit crime are left alone, those who can't drink without committing crime are stopped from drinking.

[BIHB@0610]

how long should she get do you think?

Maybe a couple of seconds stone cold sober at the wheel of a car, in the path of a driver three times over the legal limit.

[Genestho]

Crikey Sarah, you've hit a nail on the head there!

As a punishment I could "thoroughly reccommend" that approach.

I know my boy as a contributing member of society, wondered what the fuck (scuse the language but fuck seems so appropriate) did he do, to deserve to never see his young boys, or his Mum and Dad again and to go down like that with those pictures in his head.
Anyway..whats done is done - hearts are broken, life goes on.
What matters now, is what is done with my buddy's message and play our part, to make it right.

[98tls]

Crikey Sarah, you've hit a nail on the head there!

As a punishment I could "thoroughly reccommend" that approach.

I know my boy as a contributing member of society, wondered what the fuck (scuse the language but fuck seems so appropriate) did he do, to deserve to never see his young boys, or his Mum and Dad again and to go down like that with those pictures in his head.
Anyway..whats done is done - hearts are broken, life goes on.
What matters now, is what is done with my buddy's message and play our part, to make it right. Fwiw posts like that need to be printed off and put in front of those who profess to be in charge of the country,sobering stuff indeed.:niceone:

[Genestho]

Tis indeed mate, sometimes I cant even stomach the taste of alcohol anymore, Leon certainly used to work hard, and we played hard over the years, now its just plain ole hard.

Its funny you say that, I was a bit ratty before the ride and emailed the boss of this section 65 review to ask where its at, and got a fob off answer.

So I answered right back with both barrells, describing the scene, and letting them know that 3 lives shouldnt need to be only 2007 alcohol related fatality stats, and that these people were not just numbers to be used as a benchmark for politcal desicions, they paid alot of taxes, contributed in so many ways to this country and couldve continued if they wernt let down by this transparent and cheap system that allowed an indefinately disqualified recidivist to travel on. I got a bit more of a reply after that...

You can quote all the stats you like, but when it comes down to human cost, life is cheap in NZ and its irreplacable.

[98tls]

Tis indeed mate, sometimes I cant even stomach the taste of alcohol anymore, Leon certainly used to work hard, and we played hard over the years, now its just plain ole hard.

Its funny you say that, I was a bit ratty before the ride and emailed the boss of this section 65 review to ask where its at, and got a fob off answer.

So I answered right back with both barrells, describing the scene, and letting them know that 3 lives shouldnt need to be only 2007 alcohol related fatality stats, and that these people were not just numbers to be used as a benchmark for politcal desicions, they paid alot of taxes, contributed in so many ways to this country and couldve continued if they wernt let down by this transparent and cheap system that allowed an indefinately disqualified recidivist to travel on. I got a bit more of a reply after that...

You can quote all the stats you like, but when it comes down to human cost, life is cheap in NZ and its irreplacable. Funny old place we live in eh,in supposed 3rd world countries you steal,rape,bash old ladys to death blah blah you stop breathing.....simple,not in good ole NZ though,all this civilised pc shit has made us "cant see the forest for the trees".Stay strong eh.Thoughts go to your young uns from a few of us gathered at my place,Tuck them in tight and give them an extra hug.

[Genestho]

Thats very kind mate, thankyou to you and your crew there:yes:

My boys are tucked in with me:hug: now snoring their cherubic little heads off:innocent: