Slow down in safe road works areas?

[Slyer]

In so many places there are temporary 80kph signs everywhere, do we really need to follow these signs? Especially when the roads are empty, fully sealed and clean and the workers are all long gone.
I'm thinking specifically of the motorway around northcote road and tristram ave.
Personally I just go 109kph like usual, what do you think?

[Curious_AJ]

In so many places there are temporary 80kph signs everywhere, do we really need to follow these signs? Especially when the roads are empty, fully sealed and clean and the workers are all long gone.
I'm thinking specifically of the motorway around northcote road and tristram ave.
Personally I just go 109kph like usual, what do you think?

shit man, i just go as normal... i reckon it's just durin business hours (or hours the workers work) that you have to obey that...

[FJRider]

In so many places there are temporary 80kph signs everywhere, do we really need to follow these signs? Especially when the roads are empty, fully sealed and clean and the workers are all long gone.
I'm thinking specifically of the motorway around northcote road and tristram ave.
Personally I just go 109kph like usual, what do you think?

29 kms/h over the posted speed limit (even temporary ones) is about 35 demerits, plus fine about $400 I think. You figure it out.

[fireball]

you're not too clever are you?

one day you will meet the road works that have loose gravel on them and "hello" tarmac

[swbarnett]

you're not too clever are you?

one day you will meet the road works that have loose gravel on them and "hello" tarmac
The works he's talking about are off to the side of the road where they are working on the new dedicated bus way around Esmonde and Onewa Roads just north of the Harbour Bridge. They are guarded by concrete barriers and effectively have nothing to do with the motorway itself. This is the sort of disrespect shown to the average motorist by the road workers (or their bosses) that means people don't slow down when it really is necessary. It's just a case of "cry wolf". I travel through that area to and from work daily and I simply keep an eye on what's on the side of the road like I would anywhere. However they mark it no reduction of speed is necessary as the road is clear of any abnormal hindrance (or even the reasonable potential of it).

[slimjim]

dude if speed is posted you best think $ yup reckon we've all gone past at a higher speed however someday sooner or later , blueprick will correct your dosh

[Slyer]

It's all perfect roads and yeah all the work isn't even being done on the road at all. Its on the side of the road behind concrete barriers and it's been like that for months and months. Goes from northcote north as well as around onewa.

So I guess the real question is, do cops really care about temporary speed signs like this? Do they still care even if its after hours?

[pete376403]

So I guess the real question is, do cops really care about temporary speed signs like this? Do they still care even if its after hours?

I guess it depends how their quota is going for the week, or if its a quiet day

A while ago I was past some road works (posted at 70K) but hadn't yet reached the 100k sign. I started accelerating from 70 and was pulled over. We discussed the event and the cop said it was an OSH thing, that the 100K sign had to be 1km (IIRC) beyond the end of the road works. Got off with verbal warning, so that was good.
So yeah, some cops care.

[Slyer]

I completely understand the need to lower your speed around REAL roadworks.
But not when the work isn't even on the bloody road.

[FJRider]

I completely understand the need to lower your speed around REAL roadworks.
But not when the work isn't even on the bloody road.

A posted speed limit is just that. If you get pinged... its your wallet plus demerits. You want to take the risk...we all do...your choice.

[Titanium]

Working in the industry ... they are there for a reason!

People do a lot of bagging when the come up on what they consider is "unmarked" roadworks, how dangerous etc ..... you cant win either way!

Some transit works require that warning signs be posted X number of days before works start. Some companies have crews heading out that put up signs (and take them down) on a schedule so the pavement rehab guys come in behind, complete the works and head off again.

Weather plays a big part this time of year were works can be delayed and the early signs have already been put out.

Every day I get written reports of people speeding through road works. Just plain stupid if you do it. Even had to help a motorcyclist out of a ditch when he came off after speeding in to a works area that had all the traffic management signs up, farken hero he was.

Invisible roadworks .... well some pavement fails from new when the surface resistent does not meet the spec, is "slippery" so the speed limit might be reduced until rectified ........

[swbarnett]

Working in the industry ... they are there for a reason!

People do a lot of bagging when the come up on what they consider is "unmarked" roadworks, how dangerous etc ..... you cant win either way!
Warning signs of roadworks and reduced speed limits are not the same thing.


Some transit works require that warning signs be posted X number of days before works start.
This is just counter-productive. The more there are signs and then no works the more people will ignore signs when there are works. I'll say it again, this is just a case of "cry wolf".


Invisible roadworks .... well some pavement fails from new when the surface resistent does not meet the spec, is "slippery" so the speed limit might be reduced until rectified ........
The specific stretch that is in question here has not even been touched. The works are for installation of the Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) system on the eastern side of the northern motorway.

[xwhatsit]

Yes, I agree, the Onewa Rd offramp/onramp carry-on is a little silly to have at 80kph given that there's massive concrete barriers and they're doing the work well off the motorway. It is probably an OSH thing.

I used to nip through there keeping up with the flow of the other traffic, usually between 95 and 110kph. I've stopped doing that now after seeing cops with radar guns parked in the big layup area between the northbound and southbound lanes (where they have the big hanger for the lane-shifting machine). I got away with it once (two motorcycle coppers, seemed to be having a laugh as I looked in my mirror that an RS could actually do 100kph) but I don't push my luck now.

Legally, I don't think roadworks speed limits carry any less weight than `proper' speed limits so I wouldn't get your hopes up about that. If they're silly speed limits (these Onewa Rd roadworks would be a good candidate for that) then perhaps the copper would be more inclined to show some of that elusive quality, discretion, but as always don't count on it ;)

On the side: why is the Harbour Bridge (and a lot of Auckland motorway around there) limited to 80kph anyway? I know during peak hours it barely gets to 30kph, but off-peak -- why not 100kph? And why do numpties in cars or whatever insist on slowing right down as they climb the Harbour Bridge to 70kph or 60kph or less, then speed back up again as they go down? Even my bike can climb the Harbour Bridge in top gear without opening the throttle any more, how is it so hard for a car with 100hp+?

[trustme]

More than a few have lost their license for being more than 40kph over the posted speed limit ie 30kph roadworks at 70 kph you are walking & yes the cops do watch for it . It is easy revenue because eveyune does it.
Dumb or not sooner or later you will get caught & don't snivel when it happens . Coppers & courts take a dim view of speeding in roadworks as there have been a few roadworkers killed by dickheads who thought they knew better & believed the rules didn't apply to them.
I agree some of the restriictions seem silly & pointless but legally that is no defense.

[R6_kid]

In this particular situation, assuming it is 'after work hours' i.e there are no workers on the site, and there is no vehicle movement happening on the site, then I think it's fine to travel at 100kmh or 109kmh if you really want to.

I would take it at the 80kmh posted limit during the day while people are on site.

I see what you mean, the motorway itself is the same at night time as it was a year or two ago before the works started. I would thing the 80kmh limit is to allow the worksite trucks to rejoin the traffic flow more easily, however I think it goes without saying that paying attention to the road suface EVERY time you pass through the area is a must as you never know what shit might have been dragged on to the road.

[oldrider]

In so many places there are temporary 80kph signs everywhere, do we really need to follow these signs? Especially when the roads are empty, fully sealed and clean and the workers are all long gone.
I'm thinking specifically of the motorway around northcote road and tristram ave.
Personally I just go 109kph like usual, what do you think?

What do I think?

I think you are going to be "walking" soon!

These are selected areas for easy pickings! :Police:

Little old ladies and all the otherwise law abiding get done like dinners in these areas. :yes: John.

[swbarnett]

there have been a few roadworkers killed by dickheads who thought they knew better & believed the rules didn't apply to them.
Dickheads they are but might their attitude be provoked to some degree by the fact that they've seen so many road works signs with no active works around them that they've gotten complacent and are subconsciously thinking that a higher speed is still appropriate?

[Ixion]

More than a few have lost their license for being more than 40kph over the posted speed limit ie 30kph roadworks at 70 kph you are walking & yes the cops do watch for it . It is easy revenue because eveyune does it.
..

Not quite. License losing is 50kph over for a temporary speed restriction, 40 kph over for a permanent one

The reason the Harbour Bridge is 80kph is because that's what it's always been

And it was set at that in 1957 (yes!), because the original curve off the bridge onto the flat bit into Fanshawe St (ie going south, coming off the downhill onto the flat) was MUCH sharper than it now is (mainly because there was a honking big control post building stuck in the middle of the (single lane) curve!)

And it was calculated that ofr the rock and rolly cars of the day (we're talking Morrie Minors here), 50mph was the maximum safe speed (open road was 55mph).

Since then, cars have improved by an order of magnitude, the control building is gone, the curve is reengineered (and more lanes added). But, reconsider the spee dlimit? OMG Noes, noes, noes.

[Motu]

These road work areas are so safe you wouldn't even need to wear a helmet going through them at 100kph,I don't know what you are all worried about.

[swbarnett]

The reason the Harbour Bridge is 80kph is because that's what it's always been
I seem to remember when it was 100kph and they lowered it. Is it just my memory or did it spend some time at 100kph?

[Slyer]

Alright then. I'll go the same speed as everyone and if I'm the only one I'll go 80..
Just seems so silly to go 80 in an area that is exactly as safe as the 100 zones.
(Some would say even safer, no cheese cutters.)

[trustme]

Do what ever speed you like. the road rules are geared to the lowest common denominator & in many cases that is a 44t B train not u on your all conquering sport bike
Ixion , mate, I have come down the bridge in the wet in one of those 44T behemoths & struck a traffic jam at the bottom & let me tell you I fair shit. 80 kph was too fast
I have also been riding in the wet on the southern motorway & hit traffic, next I hear the shuddering scary sound of a truck trying to stop before it shoves me into the middle of next week, I take to the grass in the centre of the m'way as he skids to a halt, all in an 80kph area, see it cuts both ways
We are not the only road users out there & the speed limits reflect that,
The speed limits like it or not take into account other road users beside yourself, ignore it cos you know you are safe , well thats fine by me, just don't snivel if you get a ticket
Also seen the arseholes set up a speed trap at the end of supposed roadworks, cars parked up, drivers walking, total bullshit

[Dino]

What do I think?

I think you are going to be "walking" soon!

These are selected areas for easy pickings! :Police:

Little old ladies and all the otherwise law abiding get done like dinners in these areas. :yes: John.

Have to agree with Oldrider. Doesn't matter what you think the speed limit should be, all that matters is what it is posted at. Yep been caught out before $$$

.

[BiK3RChiK]

There's this bridge here in our town that has a temporary posted speed limit of 70km/hr posted on it that virtually everyone ignores. The reason the limit was imposed though, is because the bridge has been damaged by flooding and the Council don't want to replace the bridge any time soon. So they posted a lower speed limit than the 100km/hr limit so that the life of the bridge could be extended as far as possible. The bridge just happens to be on a curve in the road and I have seen Mr Plod park just beyond the curved bridge and do very nicely thank you pulling up all and sundry as they exceed the stated limit! So be warned!!

[Mom]

dude if speed is posted you best think $ yup reckon we've all gone past at a higher speed however someday sooner or later , blueprick will correct your dosh

There is the kicker for sure!


Working in the industry ... they are there for a reason!

With apologies here, but...
While I can see there is a distinct lack of shoulder available through there, a fair reason to drive/ride with caution agreed, the friggen traffic hardly ever in my experience reaches anything like 100kmph in normal circumstances, it is a congested bit of motorway :yes: The only ones likely to be able to exceed the open road limit would be us "BIKERS". The site is "safe" for the workers. I call OSH here and a tiny bit of $$$ collectiong too :yes:



These are selected areas for easy pickings! :Police:

Little old ladies and all the otherwise law abiding get done like dinners in these areas. :yes: John.

Too true and a very sad comment! I am for the most part a very OTT abider of speed limits :innocent: but some of these speed restrictions are pathetic!

[FJRider]

Warning signs of roadworks and reduced speed limits are not the same thing.
This is just counter-productive. The more there are signs and then no works the more people will ignore signs when there are works. I'll say it again, this is just a case of "cry wolf".


And I'll say it again... ignore the warning signs and speed restrictions at your peril...

[Mom]

And I'll say it again... ignore the warning signs and speed restrictions at your peril...

Guess that depends on your perspective on life really. Taking risks is a spark in most of us that makes us, us! My pocket is too poor to pay for a speeding ticket in a clearly marked "speed restricted" road work area on an open road/motorway, that is a sitter for plod attention :yes: You do and get a ticket, let me be the first to laugh like hell!!!

Maybe, having to open the throttle to get passed a car with a wobbly wheel trim (or what ever excuse I can think of at the time officer) an unlikely acceptable excuse, 35 and a few $ to remind me to behave :innocent: can be lived with.

In my place of life, losing my license is not an option, being badly injured is not an option ( I have children, and a wonderful man I plan to spend many more years with), paying fines sucks! Time and place :yes:

Cruise past the annoying 80kmph signs life is too short for anything else.

[FJRider]

Dickheads they are but might their attitude be provoked to some degree by the fact that they've seen so many road works signs with no active works around them that they've gotten complacent and are subconsciously thinking that a higher speed is still appropriate?

When workers are on site ... the giveaway of workers on site, is big machines with flashing lights, people in bright daygo clothing, and students holding stop/go signs... which ...incidently...are legal and proper stop signs. Even if you think the way is clear for you to go through and the stop sign is still up.

[CB ARGH]

The speed limit is exactly that - A speed limit. If you go over the limit, you face the fines. Some lucky cop's gonna be getting a payrise if he sat in a roadworks area and clocked each vehicle exceeding the posted speed limit.

I slow down personally if it is the 80km sign. :sleep:

[Slyer]

All of you people that agree with the 80kph speed limit just need to go and drive through the section of road in question...
Completely agree with reducing the speed in actual roadworks.

[Drum]

What a huge inconvenience having to slow to 80 km/h. That's another 30 seconds late you arrive at your destination. <_<

[FJRider]

The speed limit is exactly that - A speed limit. If you go over the limit, you face the fines. Some lucky cop's gonna be getting a payrise if he sat in a roadworks area and clocked each vehicle exceeding the posted speed limit.

sadly the law enforcers dont get paid on commision... if they were...:2thumbsup you think the revenue gathering is bad now :lol:

[FJRider]

All of you people that agree with the 80kph speed limit just need to go and drive through the section of road in question...
Completely agree with reducing the speed in actual roadworks.

Its a free country...go as fast as you like... any where you like. Enjoy your walking.

[trustme]

Its a free country...go as fast as you like... any where you like. Enjoy your walking.

And won't they snivel & moan , just don't do it in ear shot of me.
Why do people think the road rules apply to everyone but them.
I speed , I break the rules , I take the risk, I cop the fine if I'm caught.
Do the crime, do the time

[Slyer]

Fair enough. My point is that it shouldn't be a crime.
I agree with the 80kph limit on the bridge by the way, it's the unjustifiable "Temporary" ones that annoy me.

[Jantar]

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roads/traffic-notes/traffic-note-15-rev1.pdf

Shows the requirements for temporary speed limits. However an LTSA survey showed that:


· Only 66% of RCAs used some form of guideline or specification for
setting temporary speed limits.
· 28% of RCAs used only 30 km/h temporary speed limits.
· 41% of RCAs kept no documentation of temporary speed limits.
· Of the sites surveyed with a temporary speed limit, 100% of the sites in
an underlying 50 km/h area and 77% of sites in an underlying 100 km/h
area were sign posted at 30 km/h.
· The temporary speed limit value was appropriate at 79% of sites
surveyed.
· 20% of sites surveyed had no speed limit displayed at the end of the work
site.
· At 92% of sites surveyed some speed limit signs were not placed on the
left side of the carriageway for either direction of traffic.
· At 12% of sites surveyed with an underlying 100 km/h speed limit a buffer
speed limit was present.

So, if you get a ticket for eceeding a tempory speed limit, and decide to fight it, there is a very good chance that the TSL didn't meet the requirements.

Take the risk if you dare.

[FJRider]

So, if you get a ticket for eceeding a tempory speed limit, and decide to fight it, there is a very good chance that the TSL didn't meet the requirements.

Take the risk if you dare.

Whats the bet ...... some will....watch this space...

[R6_kid]

What pisses me off is the speed limit signs heading west on the new motorway between constellation drive and west auckland.

As Constellation goes from two lanes (at 80kmh) to one lane, you have to slow to 70kmh (temporary speed signs), then 500m later you can go back to two lanes at 70kmh, then another few hundred you go back 80kmh, then another 200m and you can do 100kmh as the 'motorway begins'... Why have the 80kmh signs within 200m of a higher speed zone on a motorway, if im accelerating from 70kmh then surely i dont need to stop at 80kmh before continuing to 100kmh in a matter of seconds.

It used to be 80kmh all the way through before the motorway went in and the road works have been gone since earlier last year when it went from chip seal to asphalt. It would seem that the contractors have simply been too lazy to remove them.

The 'temporary speed' signs have been there nearly a year now, and serve no purpose what so ever. More to the point there are four signs (2x 70kmh, 2x 80km) that are completely pointless, and are basically just waste of taxpayer money.

[xwhatsit]

While we're on the subject of bizarre and unusual roadwork speed limits, how about the one on Mangere Bridge? They've been fiddling with the offramp for months now, and it's been at 100kph the whole time (although the actual offramp is 50kph, that's fine).

What is silly, is that they've been raising pylons off the side of the bridge (i.e., in the ocean!). Now they've dropped the speed limit to 80kph by the side of the pylon. Wtf are they worried about? Cars flying off, over the side of the guide rail, across 10-20 metres of ocean and hitting the workers on the pylon? It'd be a damned good shot (and Youtube video) if they did!

[swbarnett]

And I'll say it again... ignore the warning signs and speed restrictions at your peril...
I agree. I'm just saying that the prevalence of signs that have no work to back them up mean that more people are going to ignore them.

[swbarnett]

When workers are on site ... the giveaway of workers on site, is big machines with flashing lights, people in bright daygo clothing, and students holding stop/go signs... which ...incidently...are legal and proper stop signs. Even if you think the way is clear for you to go through and the stop sign is still up.
Not sure what your point is here. I agree with everything your saying. The problem comes when there is no visibility of the road works when a driver sees the first sign and just keep going and suddenly find themselves too fast for the works when they do appear. This behaviour, I agree, is at best unwise but it is more likely when drivers have been previously bombarded with signs that effectively mean nothing.

[musicman]

A few weeks ago at 10am on a Sunday morning I got on the motorway from Onewa Road and drove north (in the car). I was in the middle lane and there was a cop in the right lane a bit behind me, I stayed at around 105km/h and the cop was about the same. When we got to the temporary 80km/h sign before the Northcote Road offramp I started slowing down but the cop car showed no signs of slowing down at all, so after it passed me I sped up back to just under 100km/h, but the cop car was still pulling away from me. I don't think the cop slowed down at all through the whole 80km/h zone, by the time I passed the 80km/h temporary zone after the Tristram Ave on/offramp the cop car was almost out of sight. It seems even they don't obey the temporary speed signs? :lol:

[Slyer]

Yes! I've seen that too.

[nodrog]

about 2 years ago, at least 15 people had their speeding tickets dropped after the local northland cop handed out tickets to people speeding through temporary 30kph roadwork signs on SH1 on a weekend when nobody was on site actually working on the road. all because some bright spark contested his ticket in court on the grounds that the temporary speed restriction should only apply to the hours when the actual roadworks were happening, the judge agreed.

[more_fasterer]

While I can see there is a distinct lack of shoulder available through there, a fair reason to drive/ride with caution agreed, the friggen traffic hardly ever in my experience reaches anything like 100kmph in normal circumstances, it is a congested bit of motorway :yes:

I ride to and from work every day on this stretch of road, even at rush hour the traffic still picks up from 70-80 on the downhill of the bridge to 95+ by stafford rd (where the speed limit used to increase to 100). Before coming to a screaming halt after takapuna, conveniently right where I exit stage left :D



The more there are signs and then no works the more people will ignore signs when there are works. I'll say it again, this is just a case of "cry wolf".

From what I've seen, it appears that there is a large cross-section of the daily commuting populace that are doing exactly that, ignoring the (in this case) irrelevant speed limit.

[oldrider]

In so many places there are temporary 80kph signs everywhere, do we really need to follow these signs? Especially when the roads are empty, fully sealed and clean and the workers are all long gone.
I'm thinking specifically of the motorway around northcote road and tristram ave.
Personally I just go 109kph like usual, what do you think?

Would you be happier with signage that looked like this? :shifty: John.

[FJRider]

Would you be happier with signage that looked like this? :shifty: John.

Or one of these ...

[Hitcher]

In the US of A, all traffic fines double if incurred in roadworks areas.

[BOGAR]

Yes it is a problem of having roadwork sites that when unattended still have heavy restrictions in place or sites that are well away from traffic. There are people continually going around work sites to keep on top of the issue. Every site is different and sometime the speed is kept low for reasons that can only be obvious to the engineer but it is for everyone’s safety. It is recognised that having too many sites that look safe so that people ignore the signs make valid sites become dangerous. Some of the time it was just how the rule was written and not what’s practical that they have to follow.

[varminter]

Don't got no motorways here in Vagas, the only roadworks I pass on the way to work is completely ignored by everyone (30K) I ignore it too for the same reason I ignore the 70K limit for learners, don't want to get run over. Anyway, half the locals can't read and aren't too good with numbers and colours (not red, more a light pink ocifer). I know it's a bit of a risk just assume I'll get lost in the crowd.

[Johano]

In so many places there are temporary 80kph signs everywhere, do we really need to follow these signs? Especially when the roads are empty, fully sealed and clean and the workers are all long gone.
I'm thinking specifically of the motorway around northcote road and tristram ave.
Personally I just go 109kph like usual, what do you think?

Well , my girlfriend just got a $230 and 35 demerit points for doing 78 in a temp 50 zone that is normally 80km/hr on SH16 Kemeu , were there were no road works but a 50km/hr temp and a unmarked car. Yes , she did brake the law ,,, but I think visible policing would work better than a police officer hiding in an unmarked car in a "no danger" zone.

[scracha]

The real issue is why the jobsworths can't use floodlights, nightsticks and work shifts 24/7 to get the roads fixed as quickly as possibly. If someone in the gubberment could actually did maths, they'd realise that paying the road contractors more to get the works done in this fashion would save money.

[cheshirecat]

you're not too clever are you?

one day you will meet the road works that have loose gravel on them and "hello" tarmac

Dam, I thought road works were putting loose gravel on to make it normal.

[Jantar]

Well , my girlfriend just got a $230 and 35 demerit points for doing 78 in a temp 50 zone that is normally 80km/hr on SH16 Kemeu , were there were no road works but a 50km/hr temp and a unmarked car. Yes , she did brake the law ,,, but I think visible policing would work better than a police officer hiding in an unmarked car in a "no danger" zone.
Defend it. And when she writes in ask for full disclosure including a copy of the road management plan, the date the plan was lodged with the roading authority, and a copy of the roading authority's approval of the plan. If the approved plan states that the temporary speed limit is to remain in force even when road works are not taking place then just change her plea to guilty and pay the fine.

However I would be prepared to bet that signs are supposed to be laid down when no workers are actually on site unless it is new seal. Even then the traffic management plan should say how long the signs are to remain in place for. There is even a chance that this is one of the 70% or thereabouts of traffic management plans that are either not lodged, or not approved, but used anyway.

[BoristheBiter]

We rode up to Mangwhai on Sunday and the last part down the hill where the roads works have been is now temp 70km, no road work signs.
the road isn't even finished and the seal is so slippery.
I'm glad i knew of the road works because even at 70 i would have been hard pushed to make that corner, never mind the unsealed bit.
The problem is the consistincy of the signs, or lack of.