Overcharging battery (CB400)

[Xile]

Ok,
it's two times now: while riding, i loose power until the bike won't start anymore, no lights or anything> flat battery!
Opening my seat: sulfure smell and condensation all over and boiling hot battery. Happened the first time on monday, after I dropped my bike onmy driveway on the morning. Went to Honda Warkworth: changed the battery, checked all the connections, sweet as.
TODAY, same thing, battery totally dead and hot, condensation etc.
My bike is a CB400 super sport from 1994, a battery is worse $110, and i'm not going to change it every week :(

Battery is a 12volts, but mine is charging 17volts when off, and 21 volts when running!!!

What could it be? and how could I fix it..?
Thanks for your help guys!

*desperate sight*
Cecile

[FROSTY]

YOUR REGULATOR/RECTIFYER HAS GONE BYE BYES.yOU NEED A NEW ONE

A very temporrary solution is to find the plug from the charging system and unplug it . Ride the bike for half an hour then plug it back in for half an hour. -its just a get you home type solution.

[notme]

.....mine is charging 17volts when off, and 21 volts when running!!!....


Bugger me mate - those voltages are all kinds of wrong. DON'T put another battery in there, you will kill it. Are you saying that you took it to a bike shop and they sold you a battery and THEY measured those voltages? Surely not....if that was the case they owe you a free battery!

Most likely the regulator/rectifier is at fault, you should be able to get one cheapish from a wreckers or tardme and it will be a plug in fix job.

Unfortunatley you will need a third battery, but as noted above, if the actual bike was anywhere near a bike shop and they didn't spot that the battery was being boiled then they need an attitude adjustment, size 12 steelcap for preference. :gob:

[notme]

oh and check all your brake/headlight/indicator bulbs - you may have some blown ones....

[Xile]

if that was the case they owe you a free battery!

I'm counting on this ey!!!

[Xile]

Bugger me mate - those voltages are all kinds of wrong. DON'T put another battery in there, you will kill it. Are you saying that you took it to a bike shop and they sold you a battery and THEY measured those voltages? Surely not....if that was the case they owe you a free battery!

Most likely the regulator/rectifier is at fault, you should be able to get one cheapish from a wreckers or tardme and it will be a plug in fix job.

Unfortunatley you will need a third battery, but as noted above, if the actual bike was anywhere near a bike shop and they didn't spot that the battery was being boiled then they need an attitude adjustment, size 12 steelcap for preference. :gob:


YOUR REGULATOR/RECTIFYER HAS GONE BYE BYES.yOU NEED A NEW ONE

A very temporrary solution is to find the plug from the charging system and unplug it . Ride the bike for half an hour then plug it back in for half an hour. -its just a get you home type solution.

mm so rectifier.. i'm going to try to find one ey...
never see such a plug, frosty, but it THE occasion to find it! :yes:

[Henk]

The plug you are looking for will have 5 or 6 wires and three will be the same colour. It will come from the left or right crank end cover, probably the left

[mnkyboy]

Follow the wires from the rectifier that we pulled out cecile - it traces back to a plug.

BTW was good to meet you yesterday...

[notme]

Follow the wires from the rectifier that we pulled out cecile - it traces back to a plug...

So it's on the way to being replaced then? good stuff. The chart attached might be useful in future too...

[Xile]

Right,
Battery is working, and all the wires checked (Thanks for the map Allun).
A new rectifier is about $270.

So i'm looking for a rectifier/regulator 12V 35amp, one plug with 3 yellow wires, the other with 2 green and 2 white/red wires..ANyone please?

[notme]

Yellow pages - bike wreckers, call them and ask for a reg/rect for your model and year...... don't buy a new one!

You can get them for as cheap as $35 if the wrecker has a few of them....

[davereid]

The voltages you mentioned are very high.

I assume the 17 volts you observed with the motor OFF, was measured within a few seconds of the engine running ?

If you see 17 volts on a 12 volt battery that is not under charge, you likely have a faulty voltmeter, as this is not possible from a 12v battery.

It may pay to re-check those readings.

[davereid]

If you are sure it is the rectifier you can easily and cheaply make a new one. You need a pair of bridge rectifiers, like Dick Smith Z3336 @ $10 is fine.

Connect all the "+" terminals and all the "-" terminals together.

Connect the 3 phases of your stator to the "~" terminals. (You will have a spare "~" terminal, it doesnt matter.)

Job done, a universal 35 amp, 1-2-3-4 phase rectifier for $20.

[notme]

If you are sure it is the rectifier you can easily and cheaply make a new one. You need a pair of bridgge rectifiers, like Dick Smith Z3336 @ $10 is fine.

Connect all the "+" terminals and all the "-" terminals together.

Connect the 3 phases of your stator to the "~" terminals. (You will have a spare "~" terminal, it doesnt matter.)

Job done, a universal 35 amp, 1-2-3-4 phase rectifier for $20.



Close, but no cigar. the RR's on bikes aren't quite as simple as that unfortunately. Xile, the best fix for your situation is finding a reg/rect at a wreckers or trademe etc.

[Xile]

Found a spare one and a spare battery too: enough to go home safely..
I'm gonna go for the replacement of my battery by the warkworth guys, and look on trademe/wreckers to find a new RR...
Thanks for your help guys!! :hug:

[notme]

good to hear :-) oh and clean up any spilled battery acid if you haven't already, or it will eat your bike! Trust me, I knows what I's talking about with batteries!

Put a teaspoon of baking soda in a litre of warm water and use it to clean up the battery area then rinse off and dry the area.

[xwhatsit]

Close, but no cigar. the RR's on bikes aren't quite as simple as that unfortunately. Xile, the best fix for your situation is finding a reg/rect at a wreckers or trademe etc.
He's talking about just replacing the rectifier side (in which case it is that simple, all a rectifier does is flip around the negative side of the AC wave), not the whole regulator/rectifier unit.

[notme]

He's talking about just replacing the rectifier side (in which case it is that simple, all a rectifier does is flip around the negative side of the AC wave), not the whole regulator/rectifier unit.

It'd be an unusual RR unit then! 1. They don't have a seperate rectifier then regulator, and 2. They are one lump of silicon with the RR on it - not discrete devices soldered to a circuit board or anything like that. But in the very unusual case of a discrete component RR unit that also had a rectifier stage followed by a regulator stage, you'd have a bit of a problem opening it as it would be sealed and potted in epoxy. Of course it is possible to build your own unit if you know what you are doing, and you can even improve the design from standard, but returning to the original point of this thread, Xile will be best off getting a second hand plug in RR to solve her problem.

[FROSTY]

original point of this thread, Xile will be best off getting a second hand plug in RR to solve her problem.
Actually she's better off with a NEW accessory reg/rec-Im workin on it for her :sunny:

[davereid]

My design is fine.

Its a rectifier not a regulator.

I never said it was a regulator.

But you could also build one of those for petty cash.

[notme]

Actually she's better off with a NEW accessory reg/rec-Im workin on it for her :sunny:

Nice one, Tony. Should have known! :yes:

[xwhatsit]

It'd be an unusual RR unit then!.
Golly, you're a tough customer to please! Well aware they're sealed, that's why they're called regulator/rectifiers, innit? :bleh:

If the rectifier in the reg/rec is borked, then it's just passing the juice through unmodified. So make a new rectifier (like mentioned above) and stick it upstream of the reg/rec and problem is solved.

[notme]

Golly, you're a tough customer to please! Well aware they're sealed, that's why they're called regulator/rectifiers, innit? :bleh:

If the rectifier in the reg/rec is borked, then it's just passing the juice through unmodified. So make a new rectifier (like mentioned above) and stick it upstream of the reg/rec and problem is solved.

hehehehe, not a tough customer as such, just an engineer. Don't like technical inaccuracies....i guess it goes with the territory!

To try and shed some light on how these things work - it's a sealed complete unit that is a reg and rectifier in one. the reg part controls the rectifier part, and none of the wires that connect the two parts inside the unit are available to the outside world.

so even though what you're saying makes perfect sense, there is no way to connect some wires to the working reg part and connect them to a new rectifier part. that connection is inside the sealed box, thus if either the reg or the rect part fails, you need a new complete unit.

and while I'm nitpicking :Pokey:, they're called regulator/rectifiers because they are a combined reg/rect.....being sealed has nothing to do with the naming....you could have a sealed reg only, or a sealed rectifier only, or an unsealed regulator/rectifier......


Anyway - see http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1717328#post1717328

....And remember the quote - "arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud. After a while you realise that the pig is enjoying it!" :niceone:

[jonbuoy]

The rectifier (rec) turns the AC into DC, the regulator (reg) controls the output voltage of the rect to the battery- on a fixed magnet type "alternator" like most bikes use. The Rect side of things is probably ok it will be the REG side thats poked anyway.

[Craig Anderson]

Hi guys

I have replaced the rectifier with the exact same problem as above, charging the battery to 17/18volts, and after 5 months blew it again, do you think its something with the alternator or just the HONDA rectifier and I should switch to aftermarket ?

CHEERS.