Troy Corser's the man! Yukio aint bad either. [Archive]

White trash

21st January 2005, 10:32

The Alstare Corona Extra Suzuki team, comprising of 1996 World Champion Troy Corser and Japanese star Yukio Kagayama, gave the 2005 GSX-R1000 an excellent debut during a three-day test at Phillip Island.

In the favourable weather conditions of an Australian summer Corser and Kagayama pushed to the limit at the awesome seaside circuit, Corser setting a best of 1m34.2s and Kagayama a 1m34.8s. This combined pace, after just one test, compares favourably with the best lap time of the 2004 race weekend, set by Garry McCoy (Ducati), at 1m34.5s.

Corser had a particularly eventful three days, as his GSX-R twice collided with seagulls, while Kagayama escaped a crash unscathed.

The 2005 season championship will feature high calibre World Superbike entries from six manufacturers, and Suzuki has already proved that it will play a part in what will be a particularly fascinating year of global competition.

I'm predicting Troy Corser to be back on form this year with Yuki' winning the races Troy doesn't :msn-wink:

vifferman

21st January 2005, 10:35

Do the 1000cc IL4s still run with restrictors in WSB?

James Deuce

21st January 2005, 10:40

Suzuki riding homos... Oh Fark.

Pwalo

21st January 2005, 10:41

Great to see the Alstare Corona team back in World Supers. Hopefully they've got their throttle body specs, etc sorted. Hard to believe that Suzuki can win BSB, and AMA (and in NZ), but none of the rounds in WSB. (Rules??)

Should be a really interesting year. All the Japanese manufacturers are back, and I'd say Ducati will be sweating a little bit.

Go the Suzuki boys. Not that I'm biased. Oh no!

White trash

21st January 2005, 10:43

Do the 1000cc IL4s still run with restrictors in WSB?

They've lost the inlet restrictors but put a tighter leash on engine mods, therefore making it a little less expensive.

It'll be great to see nori on the R1 too.

enigma51

21st January 2005, 11:00

im a huge fan of the duc's but ever since they had mister wanker O I lost concentration Neil wanka Hodgson I kinda dislike the factory team so good on any other team or manufacturer that will give them a go. I mean look at 2004 it was the best year ever in WSB as Chris was beating the crap out of them with his CBR

merv

21st January 2005, 11:26

Corser had a particularly eventful three days, as his GSX-R twice collided with seagulls, while Kagayama escaped a crash unscathed.

That man must attract those birds - didn't he get smashed up a bit the year he clinched the title? I think a seagull smashed his screen and knocked the clutch lever off or something like that. Troy was saved by Aaron Slight having decked the RC45 earlier in the first race so that his points still came out on top.

This year will be good with Honda, Yam and Suz battling it out with Duc.

k14

21st January 2005, 11:35

Yeah and i think the gull ended up on fogartys helmet, haha.

Coldkiwi

21st January 2005, 11:40

That man must attract those birds - didn't he get smashed up a bit the year he clinched the title? I think a seagull smashed his screen and knocked the clutch lever off or something like that. Troy was saved by Aaron Slight having decked the RC45 earlier in the first race so that his points still came out on top.

This year will be good with Honda, Yam and Suz battling it out with Duc.

You're not confusing Nori haga getting bashed by the bird in 2003 the year after troy moved on when they were racing for aprilia are ya?

loosebruce

21st January 2005, 12:48

Crazy to think that the Sete Gibs pole time at the island was 1:30.122 for motogp and that in 02 Colin Edwards superpole time was 1:32.767 for superbikes, now they are sitting on low 34's, something not quite right there, but i'm sure the championship wil stilll be a stonker this year.

You'd be a foolish man not to put your money on Croser and Yukio, a very foolish man.

SUZKUI :cool2:

Sparky Bills

21st January 2005, 13:01

Bring on the WSB season!!

Fryin Finn

21st January 2005, 13:08

bear

21st January 2005, 14:26

Hopefully will get more coverage in NZ, haven't really been following, but it seems that the motogp gets more coverage than the super bikes - gotta miss the aaron slight days!

enigma51

21st January 2005, 14:38

Hopefully will get more coverage in NZ, haven't really been following, but it seems that the motogp gets more coverage than the super bikes - gotta miss the aaron slight days!

Wrong way around there is more superbikes than motogp as sky bless there worthless soles dont broadcast motogp. Prime starting broadcasting the motogp half way through the season

MacD

21st January 2005, 16:39

Suzuki riding homos... Oh Fark.

And it's yellow! :niceone:

merv

21st January 2005, 19:37

You're not confusing Nori haga getting bashed by the bird in 2003 the year after troy moved on when they were racing for aprilia are ya?

Nah we are talking 1996.

Colin Edwards was another got sconed by a bird when he was riding the Yammy.

DEATH_INC.

21st January 2005, 20:30

Go the Zookies!!!!and Haga.....
Be good to see a non-duc win again...

gav

21st January 2005, 21:50

Damn, there are some great teams lining up, huh?
How about Ben Bostrom back on a CBR1000RRRRR?
Frankie Chili on a 'onda?
Chris Walker back on green ZX10R?
Norifumi Abe and Sebastion Gimbert (the French wildcard from LeMans last year) on Yamahas?
Andrew Pitt and Nori Haga on R1's?
One of the 250 hotshots, is it Rolfo? moving to World Supers on a Ducati.
Garry McCoy and Steve Martin on the Foggy?
Vermeulan has a team mate, Karl Muggeridge.
Man, WSBK could well be a better show this year, than MotoGP :eek: is anyone likely to beat Rossi? Can't see it myself, but this lot, on the same rubber , woohoo, bring it on!!

Deano

21st January 2005, 21:59

Im still backing Vermeulan....just my two cents worth. How much you want to put on it WT?

White trash

22nd January 2005, 12:44

Im still backing Vermeulan....just my two cents worth. How much you want to put on it WT?

Put $50 on Corser finnishing ahead of Vermeulan in the points.

Keen......?

Big Dave

22nd January 2005, 13:38

Put $50 on Corser finnishing ahead of Vermeulan in the points.

Keen......?

I'll back the Aussie.

bd

Deano

22nd January 2005, 21:10

Put $50 on Corser finnishing ahead of Vermeulan in the points.

Keen......?

Hey man - ITS ONLY A FRIENDLY !!

Sound familiar ?

How about $20 - I do have a mortgage you know......

betti

22nd January 2005, 21:34

Yukio will take some stoppin, was at Oulton Park last year for bsb and seein him ride up the inside of J.R. at full tilt had me fillin me pants, my money'z on him!

Skunk

22nd January 2005, 21:41

I'll back the Aussie.There's always one :killingme

TwoSeven

23rd January 2005, 09:19

Does anyone know if the races are going to be on TV. Hopefully sky sport will pick them up again, but I've not seen any info. Only a few weeks away now.

I prefer SBK and SS over MotoGP simply because I know more about the bikes, riders, technology etc and have a closer afinity (SS more so). I like looking to see what bits are bolted on to the machines and all that.

MotoGP seems to sanitised for my liking, there is no real racing - its just boring technique and they never show the racing down in the field where things are actually happening.

One thing I would like to see on both this year would be rider telemetry (listening to the riders talking to the pits as they race). That would be good. I think they tried it with motoGP but not sure if they will do it or not - even F1 does it now.

Sensei

23rd January 2005, 09:46

- gotta miss the aaron slight days![/QUOTE]

Yea right the guy was a soft cock!! Honda made 3 new bikes for him as they wern't good enough still couldn't win the Superbike's Yet his team mate's would beat him all the time & Colin Edwards Won on the bike ?? He was all ways going to be a No 2 rider as his results proved . Told him this to when he was here at a bike shop . I'm sure if some of the top rider's in NZ had the chance he did they would have done heap's better !
SENSEI :Oi:

scroter

23rd January 2005, 12:03

The Alstare Corona Extra Suzuki team, comprising of 1996 World Champion Troy Corser and Japanese star Yukio Kagayama, gave the 2005 GSX-R1000 an excellent debut during a three-day test at Phillip Island.

In the favourable weather conditions of an Australian summer Corser and Kagayama pushed to the limit at the awesome seaside circuit, Corser setting a best of 1m34.2s and Kagayama a 1m34.8s. This combined pace, after just one test, compares favourably with the best lap time of the 2004 race weekend, set by Garry McCoy (Ducati), at 1m34.5s.

:

correct me if im wrong but a magazine i was reading late last year indicated troy corser had already tested the gixxer then and out of all those that had tested he was fastest(cant remember where). Also in the same publication it indicated that along with steve martin, Garry McCoy would be riding at petronas. maybe things have changed.

scroter

23rd January 2005, 12:04

sorry didnt read that properly missed the 2004 part about mcCoy

k14

23rd January 2005, 16:21

Yea right the guy was a soft cock!! Honda made 3 new bikes for him as they wern't good enough still couldn't win the Superbike's Yet his team mate's would beat him all the time & Colin Edwards Won on the bike ?? He was all ways going to be a No 2 rider as his results proved . Told him this to when he was here at a bike shop . I'm sure if some of the top rider's in NZ had the chance he did they would have done heap's better !
SENSEI :Oi:

well shows how much you know. edwards won on the vtr1000 in the year after slight left superbikes. the 1st year of the vtr they both did average, slight missed the first 3 or 4 meetings cause of his brain op.

yeah he did finish 2nd to his team mates a few times, but he was not a softcock. you ever had all the skin off the back of your hand ground off?? how about a brain operation and then get back on the bike 6 weeks later. what about the year that fogarty (the best rider ever :argh: ) switched to honda. slight kicked his arse, then he went back to ducati and won the champs another 3 times.

he did stuff it up for himself a few times, but it was also the lack of relibality that let him down.

Kickaha

23rd January 2005, 16:45

Yea right the guy was a soft cock!! Honda made 3 new bikes for him as they wern't good enough still couldn't win the Superbike's Yet his team mate's would beat him all the time & Colin Edwards Won on the bike ?? He was all ways going to be a No 2 rider as his results proved . Told him this to when he was here at a bike shop . I'm sure if some of the top rider's in NZ had the chance he did they would have done heap's better !
SENSEI :Oi:

Like what other top riders? Simon Crafar tried and failed so did Andrew Stroud although he didn't have the budget or the bike,I guess given the chance you could have done it seeing as you're such a hard man and not a softcock like Slight :laugh:

No other NZ rider in recent years has done as well as he did on the international scene,and if he's a softcock that must mean every other rider who has competed in and not won the WSB is a softcock as well

merv

23rd January 2005, 18:05

While Slight was in WSB he was beaten rarely by team mates - Russell on the Kawasaki '93 and Kocinski on the RC45 '97 is all I remember (points for a year that is not individual races) and then Edwards on the VTR in 2000 when Slight had his surgery. His contract wasn't renewed after that. He didn't do badly really but seemed to have too many tangles with other riders injuring himself and he lost that rapid start he had been famous for in NZ - first to the first corner. Maybe they couldn't give him the clutch he needed.

Sensei

23rd January 2005, 18:12

gav

23rd January 2005, 20:18

As I'v said , his result's spoke for themself no more no less, I admire your skill's been a swinger "Kickaha" more than his so what ever . Opinion's on here are just that ! I don't worry about saying what I feel & told Arron this to his face ! . Respect a person that tell's it like it is . You know where ya stand . :calm:
SENSEI
You're full of shit, how about Doug Polen? World Champ, came to Honda, got his arse kicked and walked out on the team. Fogarty couldnt get back on a Ducati fast enough, given the chance. Kocinski sets his bike up so strange to anyone else, and again wasnt keen on sticking around for a second season. Slight always had the better of Edwards until his brain op, Honda werent keen on keeping Slight on board after that, damn shame that, they were the softcocks, not Slight, hard as facken nails, that man. Shame Slighty never took the Ducati ride he was often during his career.

Sensei

23rd January 2005, 21:59

BLA BLA BLA :moon: :whocares: :killingme
SENSEI

k14

24th January 2005, 12:06

You're full of shit, how about Doug Polen? World Champ, came to Honda, got his arse kicked and walked out on the team. Fogarty couldnt get back on a Ducati fast enough, given the chance. Kocinski sets his bike up so strange to anyone else, and again wasnt keen on sticking around for a second season. Slight always had the better of Edwards until his brain op, Honda werent keen on keeping Slight on board after that, damn shame that, they were the softcocks, not Slight, hard as facken nails, that man. Shame Slighty never took the Ducati ride he was often during his career.

Right on there. :first:

**R1**

24th January 2005, 13:15

Haga will win for sure....poor dude had to ride a duc last year...how many time did that thing break down??

Sensei

24th January 2005, 16:41

Kickaha

24th January 2005, 18:35

How many year's did Slight try to Win the SBK Title 3/4??.
Did he "NO" & that was before he had his Operation I'm sure GAV & K14 will correct me if I'm wrong but I think that is about right ." Ate-waza-Jodan-mae-geri "
SENSEI :first:

How many others tried and failed to win it in that same time period?,bunch of softcocks the lot of them

Just as a matter on interest have you ever done any bike racing or are you just an armchair racer?

James Deuce

24th January 2005, 18:53

k14

24th January 2005, 19:42

Yep jim is totally right. Read slight's book just a few weeks ago.

Liked the bit that showed how "hard" and good a racer fogarty was. After coming 10th or something in the first donnington race (slight was on the podium) fogarty made the team change the bike to the same as slight had it setup (fogarty didn't have a clue how to set a bike up). Fogarty then went on to beat slight by 0.1s, obviously all down to the fact that slight was a softcock and couldn't race for shit.

The fact of the matter is, a kiwi will never get 100% support from a factory team cause we don't have the population of possible bike buyers to warrant the support. Well not untill a NZ team joins wsc, but i don't think that will be happening in the near future.

Skunk

24th January 2005, 20:05

Sorry Sensei 509, I think you've got it wrong. Slight is well regarded OUTSIDE NZ as a hard charger with the guts to do the best. That he never made it was hard luck and bad support by his team (Honda and Kawasaki). As he said "If I didn't have bad luck, I'd have no luck at all".

Hang around at a GP or WSB meet and you will understand how highly he is thought of overseas as a rider. It surprised me...

Has anyone read Slight's book? The level of support he got from Honda was terrible. John Kocinski got more spent on him in one year than Slight got spent on him in his entire time as a Honda employee. Honda don't give a rat's banana about their riders, as they believe it is their superior technical and engineering skills that win championships. Over to you Valentino......Damn right Jim. :done:

SPman

24th January 2005, 21:00

. Honda don't give a rat's banana about their riders, as they believe it is their superior technical and engineering skills that win championships. Over to you Valentino......
Yeah, Colin Edwards can confirm that!

enigma51

24th January 2005, 21:16

Has anyone read Slight's book? The level of support he got from Honda was terrible. John Kocinski got more spent on him in one year than Slight got spent on him in his entire time as a Honda employee. Honda don't give a rat's banana about their riders, as they believe it is their superior technical and engineering skills that win championships. Over to you Valentino......

Yeah Valentino did show them that it does not help to have just good equipment.

And sensei dont worry mate there are a few blokes (kiwi's) that reckon there was more deserving (ie beter) kiwi riders than slight

White trash your on I have my money on vermeulen and Laconi the only reason why laconi will loose is because the factory ducati team like giving the stupid complaining alround dick head pomps the best rides like my favourite Mister Neil wanker Hodgson who's team mate beat him in the motogp GO RUBENS

Which brings me to another topic. Everybody says that the american kid hopkins will be the next world champion in years to come. Everyone reckon he is the next kevin (No 34) but I think Rubens is the next man to give Valentino a ride for his money. Might not win as Rossi is in a different league but Ruben will still be on his tail.

Thats my two cents at least

Skunk

24th January 2005, 21:20

I think in GP that unless Yamaha drop the ball, or Rossi moves on, Rossi is it.
But there's several fighting for 2nd... And I don't see Hopkins as one - yet.

Kickaha

24th January 2005, 21:36

.

And sensei dont worry mate there are a few blokes (kiwi's) that reckon there was more deserving (ie beter) kiwi riders than slight

I'm still waiting to hear who these riders are and if they were that much better why didn't they get up there and beat him then?

Sensei

24th January 2005, 22:10

Yea Kickaha but on the dirt have done a few track days when not working but no Full blown stuff sorry .But are no arm Chair Racer .[ 1200k per week , 33y's riding , 53bikes owned ]
Spent most of my 39y's training in
Martial Arts so that is were I shine. Fighting is my life & had some great one's at that . Would have loved to have sent more time trying out racing but am more than happy with what I can do so no worry's there either :yes:
PS I think ARRON is Kool to just for the record great to see you all having a good cry thou . :lol: He signed my Shoei mountain bike helmet when he was here , Oyea I told him he should have tryed harder in the SBK & not cryed about his bike so much . Even got to ride his bike that he used while staying in New Zealand , a CBR 929 . Now that's something not anyone can say they have done :rockon:
SENSEI :sly:

White trash

25th January 2005, 08:59

Interestingly, I notice that Haga is more than 2 seconds a lap off Corsers pace.

Blakamin

25th January 2005, 09:12

Interestingly, I notice that Haga is more than 2 seconds a lap off Corsers pace.
FARQ! I seriously thought that that Troy wouldv'e been past it by now... good to see another Aussie up there eh, WT??? :msn-wink:

White trash

25th January 2005, 09:20

.. good to see another Aussie up there eh, WT??? :msn-wink:

Go the Aussies!!!

**R1**

25th January 2005, 10:19

Interestingly, I notice that Haga is more than 2 seconds a lap off Corsers pace.
Yeah but its a new bike and its his first day trying to tame the power of the R1 dont 4get he rode a :killingme 999 :killingme last year.....did you read about Kagayama?....crashed twenty-four times in an eleven race season in Japan...i wonder who he blew to get this ride :buggerd:
...also isnt phillip island Corsers home track? :buggerd:

Big Dave

25th January 2005, 12:50

Go the Aussies!!!

So why do you reckon there are no Kiwis in the top flights, jimmy?
The conditions here make me think that you guys should turn out more top flight steerers that you do?

I know it's got to do with population base etc, but I go round more corners on a Sunday afternoon here that i would have in a month around Newcastle or Sydney. And it's far more challenging to ride - loose metal, slips, melty tar - conditions that rarely happen in Oz.

That said there are a hell of a lot of hard out riders turn up at meeting points north, south and west of the city every weekend.

This is the 'Road Warriors Cafe' at Mt White - just north of Sydney.

http://www.davidcohen.co.nz/mtwhite1.jpg
http://www.davidcohen.co.nz/mtwhite2.jpg

There is about 10km of NZ quality roads within 100km of this place - and look at how many turn up on a typical Sunday morning. They go real hard too.

Just volume & numbers - eh?

bd

White trash

25th January 2005, 13:14

So why do you reckon there are no Kiwis in the top flights, jimmy?

Simply put, I think the entire motorcycle industry of NZ is to blame. Nothing (seriously) is done to entice/encourage new racers.

Why the hell was 150 Street stock not raced at national points level?

Why couldn't MNZ get into starting a GSX250 cup? Stock bikes, on control tyres. $5000, ready to roll. NZ roadracing has been in steady decline since the demise of 250 proddy racing which every other country in the world still races.

A scholarship program similar to Formula Challenge open wheelers or the Toyota cup would be perfect.

What's wrong with an "Adopt a racer" type thing where each top level racer, advises a 1st or 2nd year racer (under 25) at each meeting? Let them pit with them, offer advise, that sort of thing.

Shaun Harris proposed a thing 18 months ago where every national points racer, paid $150 a year (fuck all in a seasons budget) to employ one person responsible for the promotion of the series. Securing event sponsership, that sort of thing all in that category. Great idea, went nowhere.

At the risk of sounding big headed, I believe that with 12 months training, I could be in the top 5 at NZ 600 Sports Production level. I wont do this, as there's no point.

I'm not prepared to sink $35K a year into racing at TOP LEVEL in NZ so I can have a 8 inch tall trophy and a pat on the back! WTF? Why bother?

James Deuce

25th January 2005, 13:38

WT raises a point that has plagued all NZ motorsport inc. cars for the last 20 years. Both motorsport organisations have concentrated on irrelevant formulae that have no transportability to any major International series. There are also far too many classes, making the overhead involved in organising meetings very intense.

IMO 125GP and 600 Supersport should be the major national junior and senior formulae respectively. Any other formulae should be club oriented. Yes it means the big bikes aren't raced here, but it means that prospective racers gain skills necessary to compete in Australia and Europe, or for the Supersport competitors potentially the USA. The goal of the sporting arm of Motorcycling New Zealand should be to feed two people a year into international racing series, or at least an overseas domestic series that can showcase NZ talent. That will start a manufacturer/sponsor feedback loop that may generate financial interest in NZ series.

Drop the rats and mice from the National calendar, and give the public close exciting racing and you might even get people turning up.

No disrespect to the F1/F2/F3/F5 brigade intended.

**R1**

25th January 2005, 13:39

Simply put, I think the entire motorcycle industry of NZ is to blame. Nothing (seriously) is done to entice/encourage new racers.

Why the hell was 150 Street stock not raced at national points level?

Why couldn't MNZ get into starting a GSX250 cup? Stock bikes, on control tyres. $5000, ready to roll. NZ roadracing has been in steady decline since the demise of 250 proddy racing which every other country in the world still races.

A scholarship program similar to Formula Challenge open wheelers or the Toyota cup would be perfect.

What's wrong with an "Adopt a racer" type thing where each top level racer, advises a 1st or 2nd year racer (under 25) at each meeting? Let them pit with them, offer advise, that sort of thing.

Shaun Harris proposed a thing 18 months ago where every national points racer, paid $150 a year (fuck all in a seasons budget) to employ one person responsible for the promotion of the series. Securing event sponsership, that sort of thing all in that category. Great idea, went nowhere.

At the risk of sounding big headed, I believe that with 12 months training, I could be in the top 5 at NZ 600 Sports Production level. I wont do this, as there's no point.

I'm not prepared to sink $35K a year into racing at TOP LEVEL in NZ so I can have a 8 inch tall trophy and a pat on the back! WTF? Why bother?
I agree....all the time im getting told ÿou should be on the track racing, the way you ride on the road is dangerous bla bla bla, but for me anyway its just too dam expensive...my whole life i have wanted to be a bike racer and im confident with time spent and the right gear i could be very compeditive, but like you said who wants to sink $30k+ in2 somthing that in NZ gets ya nowhere....sure theres buckets etc but did Aaron Slight start there??? 250cc class is for sure the way to go but then at the end of the day the more $$$$$$ you have the more chance ya have, so i'll stick to blasting around the hills and have ago days...i guess the other problem i have is im very compeditive so i couldnt just race for the enjoyment, my enjoyment comes from achieving.....

TonyB

25th January 2005, 15:58

Why couldn't MNZ get into starting a GSX250 cup?
Hell yes! My FZR thou looks almost exactly like a GSX250- I might actually stand a chance!

I agree there are too many classes, and many of the ‘important’ ones don’t matter- though isn’t our Superbike class (1000’s) something like the Superstock class at the WSBK? It even happens in car racing, I mean what the f^ck was the point of the Transam series? The NI had different rules to the SI, and both were different to Oz. Only one or two cars were competitive, because they spent the most money. Ridiculous, NZ is just too small to have dozens of different classes, wether it be cars or bikes! Since the introduction of the V8’s, things have really taken off. MNZ needs to find a similar idea. Wouldn’t it be great if the classes were consolidated so that there is something entry level that costs no more than go-kart racing, then 250’s, 600’s and finally 1000’s in a Superstock format? Maybe even four classes is too many? Obviously there is the problem of what to do with all of the racers that have invested heavily in classes that would become defunct…. I have no ideas there, but all of the fields would be bigger, the racing would be better, and there would be a better chance of pulling in the crowds.

And there’s another problem- the crowds. I didn’t go to the NZGP at Ruapuna last time, as it pissed down, but the year before I went along. It was only $15 or $20 for the whole weekend. It costs more than that to go to the bloody stock cars, yet there was probably less than 500 people there. It was advertised heavily on the radio, but no one came, even though the weather was perfect. Why does no one care?- even the local bikers stayed away in droves. I reckon it has to do with the number of classes again- too few riders spread over too many classes, some of which are quite frankly boring to watch. Then everyone takes an hour for lunch, during which time NOTHING happens. How entertaining. Why not charge local riders $10 to go out during the lunch break ‘have-a-go’ style? Or find some local stunters who want to show off? I think the key to getting crowds is to show car racing fans how entertaining bike racing is. The Mike Pero series is apparently drawing reasonable crowds, but apparently there was no bike racing there. MNZ should get a GOOD class involved in that series to give the cage lovers a demo of what real racing (with actual PASSING –GASP-) looks like. Then maybe they’d show up for the bike racing.

I think it would be fair to say that all of our successful international riders (track and dirt) got to where they are by taking a gamble, getting out of NZ, and racing in Oz or Europe. If the funds could be made available, the winner of the class with the best chance of getting noticed in could be sent to Europe to race on a sponsored bike, with some of our brilliant Kiwi mechanics looking after the bikes etc. I’d put up $50 a year to see that happen- if every Kiwibiker did that there’d be $75,000 in the kitty. If it could be done, that would be one hell of a carrot for those who have the talent but can’t see the point of investing money in a sport that currently takes you nowhere.

White trash

25th January 2005, 16:29

If the funds could be made available, the winner of the class with the best chance of getting noticed in could be sent to Europe to race on a sponsored bike, with some of our brilliant Kiwi mechanics looking after the bikes etc. I’d put up $50 a year to see that happen- if every Kiwibiker did that there’d be $75,000 in the kitty. If it could be done, that would be one hell of a carrot for those who have the talent but can’t see the point of investing money in a sport that currently takes you nowhere.

Now that's exactly the kind of "outside the square" thinking we need.

The John Britten Memorial is a really good step in the right direction and every single one of us should support the shit out of it with attendance and make it worth the promoters time and effort. I would be prepared to race the 1K in the Superbike class if I'd had more set up time, just for a shot at the prize money.

I hate to say it, but when they banned cigarette sponsorship in NZ, the good racing stopped.

Blakamin

25th January 2005, 17:23

what about tracks tho... fuck, manfield is 2 hours from wellywood... how many non bikers wanna travel that far??? i reckon they'd go if they were closer.... taupo?
how many locals go to either track?
travel costs and then admission make going to the races out of the price range of anyone without disposable income (takes me a month of saving to go)

gav

25th January 2005, 17:29

Its not so much what the guys start on , its what they are prepared to do to chase the dream. Staying in NZ, aint going to get you anywhere. Look how Bruce Anstey has come on since hes moved off shore. Slight as a youngster chased rides in Oz and rode all sorts of shit to get noticed. Anyone remember him on the old Aussie MC News Ducati 600? or the Bob Brown Ducati, sma ebike Kevin Magee rode for a bit? HOw about as a 17 year old racing a TZR250, FZ750 and FZR1000 at Wanganui all on the same day, he was clearly the best NZ had to offer and has had a great career. The Aussie and NZ Castrol 6 hour races were huge opportunities for younger guys back then. Simon Crafer was another who went overseas chasing rides, riding in Malaysian champs, getting rides in local Japan races and picking up starts in Suzuka 8 Hour etc. Chasing rides in UK etc, thats how guys will get noticed. Stroudy is a guy who has been there and done that and probably just wants to concentrate on local scene, Brian Bernard too, spent alot of time in the States, but some of these younger guys need to try and get some exposure overseas. Jared Love was being lined up to race an Aprilia overseas before his crash at Paeora. Whether MNZ can get some sort of scolarship when a young guy could get a start in a local race season in say Italy or Spain or maybe UK, and from there maybe get noticed.
Oh yeah, as for who is the man? Well he don't ride no stinkin' Suzuki, folks
http://www.mcnews.com.au/motorcycleracing2005/motogp/testing/jan_sepang/rossi_day1_lhf_700p.jpg

James Deuce

25th January 2005, 17:33

James Deuce

25th January 2005, 17:34

Its not so much what the guys start on , its what they are prepared to do to chase the dream. Staying in NZ, aint going to get you anywhere. Look how Bruce Anstey has come on since hes moved off shore. Slight as a youngster chased rides in Oz and rode all sorts of shit to get noticed. Anyone remember him on the old Aussie MC News Ducati 600? or the Bob Brown Ducati, sma ebike Kevin Magee rode for a bit? HOw about as a 17 year old racing a TZR250, FZ750 and FZR1000 at Wanganui all on the same day, he was clearly the best NZ had to offer and has had a great career. The Aussie and NZ Castrol 6 hour races were huge opportunities for younger guys back then. Simon Crafer was another who went overseas chasing rides, riding in Malaysian champs, getting rides in local Japan races and picking up starts in Suzuka 8 Hour etc. Chasing rides in UK etc, thats how guys will get noticed. Stroudy is a guy who has been there and done that and probably just wants to concentrate on local scene, Brian Bernard too, spent alot of time in the States, but some of these younger guys need to try and get some exposure overseas. Jared Love was being lined up to race an Aprilia overseas before his crash at Paeora. Whether MNZ can get some sort of scolarship when a young guy could get a start in a local race season in say Italy or Spain or maybe UK, and from there maybe get noticed.

Yes he did, but the classes he rode in had relevance in Aus. Our current ones, including the 1000s don't meet Aussie regs, and therefore we don't naturally feed into Australia anymore. The "scholarship" idea is one whose day has passed. NZers need to feed into International series and bring money with them in the form of personal and business sponsorship that has long term potential for the market they will be racing in, a la Scott Dixon.

Talent on its own is meaningless in modern motorsport, and Slight and Crafar would face the same hurdles today. Neither of them would get rides now, unless they brough money and a media friendly personality with them as a very bare starter.

merv

25th January 2005, 18:16

Truth be known the whole problem is one of economics and started about the time of Rogernomics and a whole lot of political correctness that has followed. We see boy racers in cars these days because first of all our change in classes within society has meant the rich have got richer while the poor are rotting in hell, so the poor aren't buying bikes. Then the open market philosophies allowed the flood of Jap import cars in, so if they are vaguely rich enough to buy anything they buy a cheap but fast car - can carry the piss, drugs and chicks. The do-gooders saw to the tightening of licence requirements and then it was harder to get a bike licence than it had been. All this has added up to a market now for bikes that is a fraction of what is was 20 - 30 years ago.

When Aaron Slight was racing in the early days here he rode for Gregory's of Masterton. We had lots of dealer supported racing, which they could afford if they were getting sales. Then the shops started closing or really wound back their effort and you can't blame them if the young people weren't flocking in the doors. So things like the Castrol 6 hour evaporated.

Its the punter buying bikes that helps dictate the racing scene. After the lows of the 90's to me things do look more promising these days given the backing we are seeing from the dealers. So the economy is a bit more bouyant and there is a bit more money to splash around it seems. So I don't think its all bad news. However, WT might be able to tell us, how much of an increase of Suzuki sales would he need for WMCC to field a 3 strong or more team like they did in the days of the Hiscocks, Holden and Toomey? I suspect it would have to be a 3 fold increase or more on a sales of units basis. I suspect that is never going to happen now that the youth of today have tasted their turbo cars and bling bling.

We can only do our bit to encourage people into the joys of biking. Me personally, I'm a dismal failure and neither of my kids have even considered getting a bike licence. No point forcing them, because I would end up paying and they would blame me if it all went wrong anyway.

That's my take on all this, its more of a society wealth and culture thing than it is anything to do with MNZ and their class structure. If the sales were there, the interest would be there, like it used to be in the 250 proddy days for example, and I am sure the dealers would lobby for a series anyway and MNZ would do something. An example of this is the V8 cars - they have their NZ series I am sure only because enough people are buying them and therefore like to watch them at the track. Its money that does the talking.

enigma51

25th January 2005, 18:31

To be honest I will be more than willing if there was a carrot hangin in front of me to spend money on racing. Even if we took lets say the 75000 and spilt it between the top 6 it will still be enough for people to spend the money. Its very easy most of us want to race for the fun of it but not all of us can gough up the doug

Kickaha

25th January 2005, 18:47

sure theres buckets etc but did Aaron Slight start there??? .

Aaron Slight might not of but there are quite a few past NZ champions that did

i guess the other problem i have is im very compeditive so i couldnt just race for the enjoyment, my enjoyment comes from achieving.....

You mean if you don't win you go away and and sulk then :rolleyes: get a bucket come out and get your arse kicked,you'll get used to it

The Britten meeting is indeed a step in the right direction,however even the promise of good prize money doesn't guarantee good racing or numbers in the classes,last year a planned motard class was cancelled due to lack of interest and the 600 class wasn't well supported and while there was good racing it was no better than any I have seen at National champs

The main Difference was the crowd,really good numbers due to the fact they promoted the event more effectively than the nationals ever has been in recent years

Wouldn’t it be great if the classes were consolidated so that there is something entry level that costs no more than go-kart racing

Kart racing isn't cheap at any level if you want to be competitive

James Deuce

25th January 2005, 18:52

Kart racing isn't cheap at any level if you want to be competitive

Tried to run a KT100 for a year. Gave up after one meeting and an addition to the mortgage in measurable percentage points.

Superkarts? An old V8 racer would be cheaper.

merv

25th January 2005, 20:54

A point about Aaron is he started on dirt bikes at a young age which is a cheap way to get started and is a bit like buckets in that respect. He didn't just magically turn up on the road circuit out of nowhere.

Some may remember too that Robert Holden's first road race title was on a 125 MXer.

**R1**

26th January 2005, 06:56

Aaron Slight might not of but there are quite a few past NZ champions that did

You mean if you don't win you go away and and sulk then :rolleyes: get a bucket come out and get your arse kicked,you'll get used to it

The Britten meeting is indeed a step in the right direction,however even the promise of good prize money doesn't guarantee good racing or numbers in the classes,last year a planned motard class was cancelled due to lack of interest and the 600 class wasn't well supported and while there was good racing it was no better than any I have seen at National champs

The main Difference was the crowd,really good numbers due to the fact they promoted the event more effectively than the nationals ever has been in recent years

Kart racing isn't cheap at any level if you want to be competitive
yeah i think i explained myself wrong,
i wouldnt give somthing up just coz i aint no good at it, but how fast do buckets go?? the buzz i get from racing is SPEED and lots of it, winning is algood tho.....plus at 80kg i dont think i would take full advantage of a tiny bike

TonyB

26th January 2005, 07:49

Tried to run a KT100 for a year. Gave up after one meeting and an addition to the mortgage in measurable percentage points.

Superkarts? An old V8 racer would be cheaper.

So did I. Tried it when I lost my licence for 6 months in my early 20's. I too chucked it in after one meeting and a number of frustrating practices- I was sold a dodgy engine by a kart dealer who was going out of business (didn't know at the time). I got sick of the lack of reliability. The problem with kart racing, even at KT100 level, is there's engines, then there's ENGINES. They allow modification to the engine (blueprinting, and other stuff I don't understand) so a guy with cash is going to have a much faster kart than someone with the basic KT100 engine.

What I'm talking about with bikes is for a standard bike to be adopted, such as the FX150 or something similarly cheap. The engines would be sealed, so no modifications would be allowed at all. Any engine work would be carried out by designated mechanics (in the same way as the new Toyota based slicks and wings car class). No mods to suspension, exhausts- nothing. A control tyre would be used. Then we would all see who has the most TALENT, not the most money. Perhaps the dealers would offer discounted prices for the bike and any parts and work to be done, provided you were racing it in the series. I could see the new manufacturers such as Hyosung or Ssayong(?) jumping at the chance to get their products involved in something like this. Because there would be a control tyre, the bulk buying power of the riders could be used to get a discounted rate on that tyre. Same goes for riding gear- if the series adopted one brand of leathers, then bulk buying could again be used to get them at a good price, maybe the manufacturers logo would be put on all the bikes in return for a good price. Can you see where I'm going here?

As for money, obviously we're not going to get $75k from Kiwibiker members, but surely the Lotteries commission could be hit up for some cash. If the carrot at the end was to be a member of a 2 bike team in the World supersports, then the winner would get 2 years exposure- more if they came back during our summer and won again. If a suitable NZ corporate sponsor couldn't be found, there must be the possiblilty of getting an overseas sponsor.

James Deuce

26th January 2005, 08:29

So did I. Tried it when I lost my licence for 6 months in my early 20's. I too chucked it in after one meeting and a number of frustrating practices- I was sold a dodgy engine by a kart dealer who was going out of business (didn't know at the time). I got sick of the lack of reliability. The problem with kart racing, even at KT100 level, is there's engines, then there's ENGINES. They allow modification to the engine (blueprinting, and other stuff I don't understand) so a guy with cash is going to have a much faster kart than someone with the basic KT100 engine.

It sounds pathetic, but I'd gotten reasonably good at Indoor Karting, went well at a couple of track days in Kart club KT100s, and enjoyed the one race I entered (despite the 360 on the entry to a hairpin :D). But by crikey there are as you say, some ENGINES out there. And it's all about whose back you're scratching and how much moolah you have. I hate politics a lot more than spending cash, and when I was obviously struggling to get the Kart running for practice, the way they stood round like vultures waiting for the fresh meat to rot just put me off altogether.

What I'm talking about with bikes is for a standard bike to be adopted, such as the FX150 or something similarly cheap. The engines would be sealed, so no modifications would be allowed at all. Any engine work would be carried out by designated mechanics (in the same way as the new Toyota based slicks and wings car class). No mods to suspension, exhausts- nothing. A control tyre would be used. Then we would all see who has the most TALENT, not the most money. Perhaps the dealers would offer discounted prices for the bike and any parts and work to be done, provided you were racing it in the series. I could see the new manufacturers such as Hyosung or Ssayong(?) jumping at the chance to get their products involved in something like this. Because there would be a control tyre, the bulk buying power of the riders could be used to get a discounted rate on that tyre. Same goes for riding gear- if the series adopted one brand of leathers, then bulk buying could again be used to get them at a good price, maybe the manufacturers logo would be put on all the bikes in return for a good price. Can you see where I'm going here?

Yeah, nice idea. I reckon the Hyosung 250s would be the go, and I reckon Hyosung would be all over it like a rash.

TonyB

26th January 2005, 10:13

But wait, there’s more!
The cost of getting from meeting to meeting in NZ is fairly high, especially with the ditch in the middle. Young guy’s especially would find this tricky “what, I bought the bike and now I need a VAN?” Solution? Hit up a transport company for a good rate to freight the bikes (The Bobsfreight NZ Champs?). Make transport trays for the bikes that are loadable with forklifts.
Hit up an airline/ bus company for good rates for the racers.
In that new slicks and wings class, they lease the engines from Toyota. The engines are covered in seals and can only be worked on by their mechanics. Could be an idea, but what about having a flat rate for the whole year? You pay up $X, either up front or instalments, then there are designated workshops in the major centres. So where ever you are, you just rock up to the designated workshop and say “fix it please bro” and it is done. Odds are that unmodified bikes will be pretty reliable, so the costs of the few that have a major mishap will be covered by those that are trouble free. Racers are safe in the knowledge that they’re not going to be hit with an unexpected bill.
Back in the days of RZ350's, there used to be a series (maybe not here) where riders turned up, drew keys out of a hat, and raced the bike the keys were for. The bikes were all prepared for them and they just turned up and raced. Not a bad idea- sounds a lot like the rent a racer thing.

Big Dave

26th January 2005, 10:49

Back in the days of RZ350's, there used to be a series (maybe not here).

The Yamaha 250 World Cup was a great thing - there were National Champs on proddy RD250's in Oz UK Sweden NZ? etc etc and the winners went to Brands Hatch or similar for the 'World Championship'. Was it called yamaha Gold Cup or similar?

My best mate and riding buddy back in Newcastle NSW - the fabulous Mr Rusty Howard - won the whole shootin' match in 1988. I've used the trophy as an ashtray!

Great series - should be done again - Triumph are running a Thruxton Cup in the US - that would be cool too.

bd

White trash

26th January 2005, 10:57

Triumph are running a Thruxton Cup in the US - that would be cool too.

bd

Very cool. Just a little expensive.

k14

26th January 2005, 11:51

gav

26th January 2005, 18:01

The one make one hit wonder scheme has been tried before, the most recent being the SV650 rent a rcer idea. Brilliant idea really, but seemed to die after what 1 maybe 2 seasons at the most. Unfortunately I think NZ is too small to expect one brand to carry the can. As it is, you cant complain about Suzukis efforts lately. The best class would be the 150's. You have Suzuki, Honda and Kawasaki available and it would be good to see some of the top riders riding as well. Andy Bolwell raced a Kawi 150 for a while. They just need to be continued long enough to gain support, how about a Blue Wing Honda team on NSR150's?
How about setting a maximum hp and all bikes to be dynoed at scrutineering and top 5 to be redynoed after each race?

Kickaha

26th January 2005, 19:08

yeah i think i explained myself wrong,
i wouldnt give somthing up just coz i aint no good at it, but how fast do buckets go?? the buzz i get from racing is SPEED and lots of it, winning is algood tho.....plus at 80kg i dont think i would take full advantage of a tiny bike

In the top 4-5 guys in Chch there is only one guy under 80kg and the guy who got 2nd is 100kg+.

I've raced 250 superkarts that would piss on your R1 and without a doubt the bucket is far more fun despite the fact it's a lot slower

A lot of the fun to be had out of buckets is doing over guys on bigger faster bikes,like the guys on the RS250 Aprilla and ZXR400 I passed in the wet at Timaru or the 650 Triumph at Nelson

Most people dismiss them because they aren't real fast but they teach better riding skills than big bikes ever will,if you want to learn to ride hard,race a slow bike!

A one make series only goes part way to adressing NZ road race problems and perhaps at an entry level is a good idea but we dont have a clearly defined path for people to follow if they chose to go overseas to race and our classes aren't aligned with other countries

I think bringing the 600 and 1000 in line with Australia would be a good start

TonyB

26th January 2005, 20:03

we dont have a clearly defined path for people to follow if they chose to go overseas to race and our classes aren't aligned with other countries

I think bringing the 600 and 1000 in line with Australia would be a good start
Eggzackery!
Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know alot about Buckets. Is there a fair bit of disparity even in buckets, or is it pretty even? Just seems that there would be a wide range of bikes getting converted. Are there rules on what you can do to the engine?

Kickaha

26th January 2005, 20:27

Eggzackery!
Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know alot about Buckets. Is there a fair bit of disparity even in buckets, or is it pretty even? Just seems that there would be a wide range of bikes getting converted. Are there rules on what you can do to the engine?

Quite a variety from RS125 framed MB100 to GN125(140 with stroker kit) CB125T,RX125,GP100,H100,there's a GP100/RG400/TZR hybrid being built at the moment

http://www.mnz.co.nz/competitionrules.aspx chapter 24

TonyB

27th January 2005, 09:57

Quite a variety from RS125 framed MB100 to GN125(140 with stroker kit) CB125T,RX125,GP100,H100,there's a GP100/RG400/TZR hybrid being built at the moment

http://www.mnz.co.nz/competitionrules.aspx chapter 24

Engines must be derived from non-competition
motorcycles. Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro and
Go Kart motors and transmission parts are not
permitted. There shall be no restriction on the make,
type or design of carburettor, ignition, exhaust,
piston, cam, valve springs or cooling system except
for class eligibility. All engines must be normally
aspirated except F4 4 stroke engines of less than
100cc capacity, which may be turbo or supercharged.
F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to
carburation equivalent to a single 24mm carburettor,
F5 4 stroke engines over 53cc are restricted to
carburation equivalent to a single 20mm carburettor.
Erm... has anyone ever actually tried to turbo charge an F4 4 stroke? Imagine the size of the turbo!

k14

27th January 2005, 12:11

Kickaha and his mate have done it at the moment, just about got it running. They have a 100cc motor i think (can't remember the exact details). They got a turbo off a suzuki cappicino (sp?), the 600cc pocket rocket car.

**R1**

27th January 2005, 13:37

In the top 4-5 guys in Chch there is only one guy under 80kg and the guy who got 2nd is 100kg+.

I've raced 250 superkarts that would piss on your R1 and without a doubt the bucket is far more fun despite the fact it's a lot slower

A lot of the fun to be had out of buckets is doing over guys on bigger faster bikes,like the guys on the RS250 Aprilla and ZXR400 I passed in the wet at Timaru or the 650 Triumph at Nelson

Most people dismiss them because they aren't real fast but they teach better riding skills than big bikes ever will,if you want to learn to ride hard,race a slow bike!

A one make series only goes part way to adressing NZ road race problems and perhaps at an entry level is a good idea but we dont have a clearly defined path for people to follow if they chose to go overseas to race and our classes aren't aligned with other countries

I think bringing the 600 and 1000 in line with Australia would be a good start

na not for me....i have spent far too many years thrashing the shit out of poor wee bikes....and dreaming of a big fast bike...now that i have the R1 im happy as(no more hating my bike coz it aint fast enough) i always find with less powerfull bikes you are always wanting more...but thats just me....plus if i raced i would want to race the bikes i like....and no offence but i dont like mb100's and the like. hey i guess its back to that each to their own thing............. i belive there are even guys that race harleys.

TonyB

27th January 2005, 15:35

Buckets must be all about corner speed though- am I right? And outbraking rather than blasting past. If the racing's even I doubt you'd ever notice how slow you're going in a straight line- especially when you're dicing with other bikes. I know in gokarts we never went that fast, but it sure felt fast, aside from being low to the ground it was because there were karts all around you- jim2, you'd agree with that wouldn't you? I remember one race where someone behind me tried to take the first bend flat out on cold tyres (you had to wait a lap or two for them to heat up), their kart went spinning past me, across the front, and into the grass. Massively entertaining! I guess the thing with buckets is you could go racing, and keep your road bike. If you were really good, maybe you'd get noticed and then someone else would pay for your gear in a higher class.