Sym Voyager 250 GTS [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

Flange

7th October 2008, 20:35

I've had a Sym Voyager for a couple of weeks now. It goes really well, happy at an indicated 110-120 two up. I haven't tapped it out yet (it's not quite run in) but did briefly see 130 while passing a car. It's only a 250 so acceleration is never going to excite anybody who has ridden a modern sports bike but it would probably run with most 250 motorbikes despite it's relatively high weight of 174kg. CVT transmission makes very good use of available power and facilitates quite excellent economy of 300km on 12ltrs of 91.

The biggest revelation is the handling. I've yet to take it for a run around the coast with my sportsbike mates but I think that through the twisties it will hold it's own at the speeds we normally travel at - not exactly shagging around. It tips into corners very easily, holds it's line pretty much perfectly on a smooth surface and has pretty reasonable ground clearance. The rear suspension (twin shocks, preload adjustable only) is pretty firm on it's middle setting while the front suspension is about right for The Eastern Bay's bumpy roads. Ya gotta remember though that it is a scooter with the engine and trans weight directly on the swingarm so it thumps into bumps pretty firmly, and is definitely more easily upset by bumps mid-corner than is a proper bike. This point more than anything would be most scooters' Achille's heel, but It's fair to say that I've ridden plenty of so called sports bikes which don't handle as well as the Sym.

The brakes are disks both ends with the left lever operating the rear plus two pistons in the front, the right operates the other two front pistons. Lever pressure is relatively high but the brakes are very progressive and very good. Squeeze the left lever firmly with three fingers and the bike just squats and slows very quickly, back tyre chirping. Then bring in the right lever and it stops bloody quickly indeed. Honda have been trying to foist linked brakes off on performance bikes for years and I think it's fair to say that not many serious riders would have a bar of them. On the scoot though with it's rearward weight bias I'm really happy with linked brakes and would highly recommend them.

Panel fit and finish is if a very high standard. My understanding is that Sym manufactured on behalf of Honda since the 60s - they've obviously learned a lot from Honda as I would rate the quality right up there.

If you do a bit of night time riding, you would be very happy on the Sym as the lights are real berm-burners. Phillips HID apparently, with a couple of what look like halogen "fog lights" outboard of the main lights.

Storage is great with the usual cavernous under-seat compartment plus another in front of the rider's knees and would you believe a couple of cup holders between the rider's feet ? Only from Asia.... Just the ticket if you are into riding and drinking at the same time though.

I'm a computer tech and bought the scoot with the idea of using it to do much of my work on. The available storage makes it quite suitable for the job, plus the protection offered by the bodywork and screen means that you don't show up at customers' premises looking too fly-splattered. As stated, excitement is not really what it's all about when there's a 130BHP missile parked in the garage beside it, but it's more practical than an SV1000s and a hell of a lot more enjoyable to use around the Eastern Bay's twisty roads than an L300 dropside. The name of the scooter game is fun and the Sym provides that.

Finally, if it's entertainment you're after, buy a Sym, open up the Owners Handbook at pretty much any page, and then piss yourself with laughter. For example, page 10 tells us "..main switch in the ON position, cuts according to this switch, four directions lantern festivals dodge extinguish do move.."

While the User Manual might be a joke, the Sym Voyager GTS 250 is anything but a joke. It is a very good machine indeed.

The Baron

8th October 2008, 11:49

Hi, My wife also has a SYM GTS 250. It only has about 1300 km on it but is a great bike and rides well with other 250 bikes. We also looked at Burg 250 but the Burg 250 is $5000 more so the SYM is a lot of bike for the money. I ride this bike often and it is a great fun machine.

Slicksta

9th October 2008, 20:51

Thanks for the info the manual (http://www.sym.com.tw/admin/upload/download_e/dnfile/LM25W-6.pdf) is well worth a read

Flange

21st October 2008, 07:14

Two weeks on from my initial review and the Sym has now done about 1600km.

With new bikes I like to overkill the oil changes - the Sym got it's first at about 150km, then at 300, 800 and finally at 1500. As with previous bikes, the first oil change brought out bits of aluminium swarf, threads of silicon, some jelly-like gunge and fine metal particles. Subsequent changes brought out little. Overall the Sym seems reasonably clean internally compared to how my SV was when new for instance. It's now on synthetic oil in both the engine and final drive.

At 1000km I checked the air filter and found it badly blocked. The air filter is a pleated paper item and the intake snorkel for the airbox gets it's air from high under the seat. This is obviously an attempt to get the air from a relatively clean area but probably because I live at the end of a 200m unsesaled driveway it's still pretty dusty up there.

Rather than just replacing the filter (no doubt this would get pretty expensive if replaced every 1000km) I've cut out the pleated paper and replaced it with Twin Air foam filter as commonly used on offroad bikes, and treated the foam with K&N filter oil. At the same time I removed the fine mesh which goes behind the pleated paper. This serves as a flame trap, but so far the engine doesn't seem to backfire through the carb so I guess it's pretty safe to dispense with the flame trap and thereby remove a significant impediment to air flow.

The filter mod reduced fuel consumption (350km/12ltr vs 300 previously). This, along with a worsening of throttle response told me that the engine was now running lean. The carb appears to be a Keihin CVK and according to the service manual the main jet should be a 122. In fact it is a 112 - maybe a move to meet newer emission standards? To address the lean state I put a 1mm spacer under the needle. This greatly improved throttle response but I thought that it was still a bit lean and so courtesy of The Dude Murray at Whakatane Motorcycles (top people, highly recommended) I obtained an old 85 4mm jet out of something unknown and with the assistance of Murray's jet drills bored this wee thing out to 115 and fitted it. This seems to have brought the mixture about right and throttle response is now very good indeed, much better than when standard. A pox on emission control standards !

Now that the bike is pretty well run in I did a top speed run - 145 indicated. On a private road with a professional rider of course. The speedo is a bit optimistic so I guess the real top speed is probably closer 135 than 145. Still pretty good for a 250 single and probably fast enough for a scooter given the small wheels and the propensity to react to wind gusts as they do.

Now that I've had the opportunity to pull things apart a bit, I can report that under the plastic things are very tidy and well put together.

Next, my mind turns to the exhaust system. I believe these are fitted with catalytic converters which are heavy, and which fairly quickly become restrictive and so counter-productive. Maybe a nice lightweight aluminium can of some sort, although I'm fairly keen to keep it quiet...

Cheers
Flange

The Baron

22nd October 2008, 19:08

It's great to read your progress report Flange. I am interested to see what difference the exhaust change will make. Well I had better go and check the air filter...

cs363

22nd October 2008, 19:18

Thanks for the info the manual (http://www.sym.com.tw/admin/upload/download_e/dnfile/LM25W-6.pdf) is well worth a read

Ah yes...very reminiscent of early Japanese manuals, lol

Flange

22nd October 2008, 19:25

Does The Baron have a Voyager ?

The Baron

23rd October 2008, 09:58

Hi Flange. Re GST250. Yes and no. It belongs to my wife but she does not do a lot of riding so I take it out from time to time. Its a great fun machine and is always good to see peoples faces as you over take them on a scoot.
We got it Jan 08. Its Black but in the daylight looks very dark blue and is not modified .. yet.. But I have thought about changing the exhust so I am keen to see how you get on.
The Baron.

Flange

23rd December 2008, 21:22

Another progress report, now with 7000km up.

I haven't had the opportunity to do anything further in the way of mods, just ridden it. Everything is fine.

One nice feature which has shown up is that the bike has a warning light on the dash which comes up every 3000km to remind one to do one's engine oil changes. It took a bit to work out how to reset this light - initially I thought that it might reset automatically after doing the oil change courtesy of a float switch or similar but no. There doesn't appear to be anything in either of the manuals, but finally after much head scratching I noted a button on the dash labelled O/R and lo, this turns out to be Oil Reset. A good system though as it takes all the guesswork out of when to change the oil.

At 6,500 the original rear tyre was shagged. Just as well as it had been developing the dreaded flat-in-the-centre for quite a while and this had a rather adverse affect on the handling so I was quite pleased to fit a nice new Conti Twist and restore the handling to the standard it was. The front tyre is still good, maintaining a good shape and should last the life of the second rear.

On my SV (or any powerful sports bike) it is possible to maintain the shape of the rear tyre by gassing it up early when exiting corners and then rolling off as the bike comes upright. A 250 scooter is never going to have the power to do this so despite an impressively slim "chicken strip" around the rear tyre it looks like a flat patch in the centre is going to be a fact of life. I wonder if anybody makes a dual compound tyre in scooter size ?

When removing the rear wheel to change the tyre, one needs to first remove the exhaust system. The first thing I noticed upon doing so is how bloody hevy the standard exhaust is - 8.5kg would you believe ?

Having previously observed that the engine is mounted so that it's centre of mass is approximately over the swingarm pivot point, this got me thinking that the designers have cleverly minimised the effect of engine weight on the rear suspension. I would imagine that the amount of engine weight hanging over the front of the swingarm pivot would pretty much balance out that hanging over the back.

What must adversely affect suspension action though is the 8.5kg of exhaust weight centered about a metre behind the swingarm pivot. No doubt about it, the stock muffler has to go ! So, courtesy again of the nice folks at Whakatane Motorcycles I'm now the proud owner of a muffler from a mid-80s Honda VTR250. Nicely shaped, relatively light and hopefully not too restrictive. Now, to adapt it to fit. Watch this space for future developments.

Cheers
Flange

MarkH

30th December 2008, 22:44

At 6,500 the original rear tyre was shagged. Just as well as it had been developing the dreaded flat-in-the-centre for quite a while and this had a rather adverse affect on the handling so I was quite pleased to fit a nice new Conti Twist and restore the handling to the standard it was. The front tyre is still good, maintaining a good shape and should last the life of the second rear.

What is the size & price of the rear tyre? 6,500kms seems a little short runned, my Burg 400 has now done over 14,000kms on the original tyres and the rear looks to still have a few more thousand kms to go, the front looks even better.

Flange

31st December 2008, 22:33

the rear is 130/70-13, standard is a Maxxis. I was a bit surprised that it wore so quickly, maybe the Conti will do better - the dude in the shop thought it would. Time will tell...

MarkH

1st January 2009, 08:28

the rear is 130/70-13, standard is a Maxxis. I was a bit surprised that it wore so quickly, maybe the Conti will do better - the dude in the shop thought it would. Time will tell...

Mine is 150/70-13 which is not much different, and considering I have more weight & 400cc I wouldn't really expect the lifespan to be all that much different. I am running the original Bridgestone Hoops and I would say that it is very likely quite a range of lifespans would be found between different brands of tyre. I suppose it will take a while to find out how long the Conti will last, but I suspect that you will get a LOT longer out of it than the Maxxis.

Flange

2nd January 2009, 05:50

Dave Lobster

2nd January 2009, 09:25

My 400 had its back tyre changed at the 12,500 mile service. It wasn't completely worn out, but it wasn't as hot as it could have been in the wet. All my mileage has been two up, up and down the motorway. Not flat out caning it, but certainly not hanging around like a tortoise.

I've been happy with mine. Can't recommend them high enough.

MarkH

2nd January 2009, 10:10

Yair, I suspect you're right there Mark. Maybe the Bridgestone is the key. Are they dual tread compound ?

Given that your Burgman is quite a bit more powerful than the Sym and heavier to boot, one would expect it to use it's tyres quite a bit more quickly, all other factors being equal.

Most of my kms are open road running with lots of hill work so I guess that will impact on the equation too.

Happy with the 400 ?

I have no idea of the compound make-up of my tyres.

My 400 is great for commuting about Auckland and does a pretty decent job as a tourer. It really seems quite happy to cruise along at 110kph (speedo is crap and reads 120, but GPS comparison says 120 on speedo is around 109 actual). I have been over the bombays several times - no problem getting 140 on the speedo uphill heading south or 130 on the speedo uphill heading north. I don't push through the corners like a sports bike, but is does handle pretty good for a scooter and I enjoyed going around the Coro loop. Top speed is only around 140/155kph (actual/indicated), but that is enough for travelling at a normal speed with enough reserve for passing. There is plenty of storage under the seat to let me keep my wet weather gear on hand all the time, not a bad thing with NZ unpredictable weather. It is also pretty happy dawdling along at 60kph around the city.

It was kinda handy to have a full motorcycle license from way back and getting a free choice of engine size - the Burgman 250 has the same list price as the 400. With a lot of motorway and open road riding I prefer the 400.

Dave Lobster

2nd January 2009, 13:14

the Burgman 250 has the same list price as the 400. With a lot of motorway and open road riding I prefer the 400.

I've had a 250 for a week when my 400 was getting a new clutch. For two up work, it's pretty poor when compared to my 400. Far more thrashy and VERY thirsty. As thirsty as the 650 we've had the use of too.

The Baron

25th February 2009, 07:26

Hi.
I took the Sym Voyager 250 in for a WOF. It passed. But the head light needs to be adjusted up.
So Q. Where is the adjustment and how do it get to it?
I will need to know oneday if only to change light bulbs etc.

I will find it if I pull enough bits off, but if you know, it will save time.

Thanks

insane1

25th February 2009, 08:15

there should be a forum for this scooter that might tell you more just google it .

NZscoot

5th March 2009, 14:23

Hi Flange, I have a Sym Citycom and want to do the same with the air cleaner. Did you leave the metal plate with the bigger holes in your airfilter? I guess you removed the fine mesh. How did you keep the foam in place??

How did your exhaust mod go?? The Citycom's exhaust is also a heavy beast. One day it may go too.

Flange

11th March 2009, 20:11

Hey there Dude

Give The People your thoughts on the Citycom. They too get great reviews.

Yes, I left the perforated metal plate in place, removing only the wire gauze.

To hold the filter foam in place I just drilled a few fine holes in the plastic and zig-zag'd some lock wire in front of the foam.

For what it's worth, I've gone back to a standard paper filter, reason being that the foam quickly seemed to choke up and even after cleaning appeared to not flow air properly. The symptom which I observed was a loss of throttle response - the performance or economy didn't seem to change significantly, just the throttle response. After putting a new paper filter back in the throttle response has returned to normal.

I used to have a Yamaha R6 which had a foam filter, but that was very large, a hemispherical shaped jobbie about 600mm by 400mm which filled most of the inside of the airbox and thus had quite a large surface area. I guess that for a foam filter to be successful, quite a large area is needed. Likewise a CBR1000 which I made into a race bike for a guy had a couple of cylindrical foam filters, again producing quite a large surface area.

I might try removing the perforated metal plate as well at some stage, That would effectively produce a much larger "opening" for the air to flow through if ya get what I mean. Just zig-zag a bit more lock wire on the back side of the foam to hold it in place.

And, I haven't had the chance to fit the new muffler yet, too busy workin' and ridin'.

The Sym has now done over 12,000km with no probs, cementing the belief that these really are a quality piece of kit. Just chewed out the second back tyre, a Conti Twist. It actually failed, developing four or five large blisters. If it weren't for the blisters the tyre would probably have given a couple of thousand Ks more, as it was it gave about 6000km. The front tyre is getting pretty worn so I'm replacing them both.

Finally, I got pissed with the wife pinching my 250 and leaving me to ride her little 100, so I've bought a second 250, guess that's pretty unique ? I was actually going to buy another new one but was told that "production has been halted" whatever that means. From what I've read these bikes are very popular everywhere and sell like hot cakes so I can't see why Sym should suspend production, unless they're going to release a new model and want to use up the old inventory perhaps. Instead I found a practically new one on Trademe, only 500km old. Good enough for me. It's interesting to ride two identical bikes and feel the differences, and strangely enough, they do feel quite different even after I've set them up the same.

Cheers
Flange

MarkH

11th March 2009, 21:59

The Sym has now done over 12,000km with no probs, cementing the belief that these really are a quality piece of kit. Just chewed out the second back tyre, a Conti Twist. It actually failed, developing four or five large blisters. If it weren't for the blisters the tyre would probably have given a couple of thousand Ks more, as it was it gave about 6000km. The front tyre is getting pretty worn so I'm replacing them both.

Are there any Bridgestone Tyres that fit your Scooter? I got 16,000kms out of my rear tyre, my front has done 20,500 and is still going. I don't take it easy on my tyres and have been on many group rides through twisty roads and kept up with a bunch of regular bikes. I replaced my Bridgestone Hoop tyre with another one and I will do the same for the front when it needs it - I have no complaints with my tyres.

Flange

12th March 2009, 20:39

Are there any Bridgestone Tyres that fit your Scooter? I got 16,000kms out of my rear tyre, my front has done 20,500 and is still going. I don't take it easy on my tyres and have been on many group rides through twisty roads and kept up with a bunch of regular bikes. I replaced my Bridgestone Hoop tyre with another one and I will do the same for the front when it needs it - I have no complaints with my tyres.

Foxtrot Uncle Charlie Kilo, that's a pretty good mileage ! The dude Muzza at Whakatane Motorcycles has put Dunlops on for me (I trust him, so left it up to him to to put on good tyres at a good price) but if these tyres don't go the distance I will certainly look at Bridgestones next. What sort of Bridgestones are they ?

MarkH

12th March 2009, 21:20

Foxtrot Uncle Charlie Kilo, that's a pretty good mileage ! What sort of Bridgestones are they ?

That should be Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo.

They are the standard Bridgestone Hoops that Suzuki supply with the scooter, I think they picked some good'uns when they chose them. The rear is a Bridgestone Hoop 150/70-13 and the front is a Bridgestone Hoop 120/80/14.

Looking at a list of tyres online I see that there is indeed a Bridgestone Hoop 130/70/13

Flange

15th April 2009, 17:14

As previously described, the standard muffler on the Sym 250 is a bloody heavy piece of kit, around 8kg, and mounted as it is a fair way aft of the swingarm pivot this produces a lot of unsprung weight. Unsprung weight is the arch-enemy of good suspension action.

I was given the can off a mid 80s Honda VTR250 which looked broadly the right size and shape, and best of all only weighs about 2kg. So, off with the old one and on with the new thus:

First an adapter is needed to bridge the gap between the standard header pipe and the internal diameter of the VTR muffler which is considerably larger than the standard Sym item. We used a bit of aluminium, lathed it to size and hacksawed some splits most of the way down the length of it to enable it to clamp down.

Then we ground off the old bracket and welded on a new one made from a bit of mild steel sheet.

Finally, a bit of VHT paint and a hose clamp and it's done.

So, what's it like ? The Fashion Police have decreed that it doesn't look as good as the original item, and I tend to agree with them. I will make up a heat shield, primarily for safety reasons but also because I think this might tidy up the aesthetics, but the bottom line is that I think it looks OK but not great.

How does it sound ? It's a bit louder than standard and this is not what I wanted. Also the exhaust note is not particularly pleasing when riding it, but I haven't heard how it sounds when ridden past. I can put up with the sound if the suspension action benefits sufficiently however.

How about the suspension action ? I expected quite an improvement from shedding 6kg of unsprung weight but was surprised just how great the improvement was. Ride quality is much better now with virtually none of the typical scooter thump when hitting a bump. Likewise when cornering fast over a bumpy surface the tyre sticks to the surface much better. Ground clearance is not really an issue on the Sym 250, but this mod does produce quite a bit more ground clearance on the right hand side should it ever be needed.

To summarise, this was a very successful mod indeed purely on the grounds of improvement to the suspension action. Aesthetically it's a bit of a mixed bag and the sound needs a bit of working on but hey, I can live with that.

Thanks to Jimmy Steadman for turning up the adapter and doing the bracket work.

Cheers
Flange

Flange

15th April 2009, 17:49

And of course what about the mixture ? The plug indicates that the mixture is still about right, and there's no discernable difference in throttle response or power up the Ohope Hill - it still gets to about 85 km/hr by the top.

I do notice a bit more popping under deceleration but that may well be due to the fact that the new muffler lets a bit more noise through. I am tweaking the idle air adjustment to see if I can tune this out.

Cheers
Flange

Flange

13th July 2009, 13:16

Mileage is now 16,800 and all's well.

According to the service manual, I should have fitted a new drive belt at 12,000km but I've been keeping a good eye on the original belt and there's no sign of cracking or perishing. Wear is measurable but it is still well within the specified width tolerance, so I've ordered another belt just in case and will run out the standard one until it gets down to 22.5mm wide.

I don't know how my type of running would affect belt wear. I live rural and most of my running is open road so the bike spends most of it's life around 100-120km/hr. Does this cause more or less belt wear than would town running with it's continuous speeding up and slowing down ? Dunno really.

It's on the third set of tyres, this time Dunlops and these are the best so far. My wife's identical scoot still has the OEM Maxxis and the difference in handling is very significant.

It's winter time, and my fingers know it ! Note the nice set of handguards ? They're aftermarket jobbies, if anybody's interested PM me for details. Mounting them was a bit fiddly but worth it.

Most significantl though is the exhaust system. Previous posts detail the replacement of the original 8.5kg behemouth with a svelte 2kg item from a mid-80s VTR250. This dramatically improved the ride, and the handling on bumpy surfaces, but I wasn't terribly happy with the aesthetics nor the sound. While pottering in the shed recently I noticed a long-forgotten can (in lovely titanium no less) off an 01 Suzuki GSX-R1000. Gixxer riders tend to take them off and put something noiser on in the misguided belief that in doing so they will get more power. In reality they're a very free-flowing and light muffler. Cursory inspection indicated that it wouldn't be too difficult to adapt that to fit, and so it was. I simply needed to make up a flange plate and front pipe to connect to the standard header along with a small bracket to bridge the gap between the top front muffler mount and the standard bracket on the can and voila !

I didn't weigh the Gixxer can but it feels slightly lighter than the VTR item, and certainly it looks better to my eye. It's a bit louder than the original Sym can but the sound quality is heaps better than the VTR can, it's a lovely gruff sound so I can certainly live with that. Throttle response is better and there seems to be a tad more power but I haven't tested it on the Ohope Hill yet.

Best of all, when it comes time to sell the bike I can simply remove the titanium can and bolt the original straight back on.

Happy with the Sym ? You bet.

Cheers
Flange

MarkH

13th July 2009, 17:10

NZscoot

13th July 2009, 17:11

Flange - good to hear the GTS is still doing it for you.

I changed out the stock air cleaner for a foam one like you did. I seem to feel throttle response is worse, but I had two layers of Uni foam in. Now running with only one layer - so we'll see.

The Citycom has almost 7000kms on now. It is a great scoot and runs like clockwork. I'm still on the original Maxxis tires. My rides are all in the city therefor the tires doesn't have flat spots. You can read about my experiences here:
http://scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=200cc&thread=16772&page=1

I've fitted a bigger Givi screen which protects my hands pretty good. Handy especially this morning with -2C here in Christchurch.

Well all for now. off for another 5 degC ride home now.

Flange

13th July 2009, 19:04

My Bridgestone Hoops are still good - the rear I replaced at 16,000 KMs is doing well and my front is the original, I might get to 30, 000 KMs before it has to be replaced.

I am a little envious of your exhaust - mine is still factory and really heavy. I don't know how well things would go with the O² sensor if I tried to fit a can that wasn't designed for my scoot. But like yours, mine is part of the unsprung weight - so lighter would be much better.

Bloody Norah, how do you get that sort of mileage from tyres ?

As for the O2 sensor, providing it is fitted in the "normal" position (in the pipe between the exhaust port and the muffler) then changing the muffler should make no difference to the ECU. If there's any sort of catalytic converter upstream of the O2 sensor, the situation might be a bit more complex.

Flange

13th July 2009, 19:19

I changed out the stock air cleaner for a foam one like you did. I seem to feel throttle response is worse, but I had two layers of Uni foam in. Now running with only one layer - so we'll see.
.

I've been thinking of making up something a bit larger, perhaps a sheet of light aluminium (or even something like radiator guard) cut to the same outside size as the standard air cleaner and then covered with Twin Air, that should give enough surface area.

I wonder too just how "unique" the Sym air cleaner is ? Maybe Sym have designed an air filter specifically for this bike, but more likely they've simply used an existing design from a specialist filter manufacturer somewhere in Taiwan. I saw an advert from someone like Polini for washable air filters and some of them looked at least broadly similar in shape to the Sym item. Maybe there's an aftermarket item out there somewhere,,,

MarkH

13th July 2009, 22:14

Bloody Norah, how do you get that sort of mileage from tyres ?

*shrug* I dunnoe - I just ride the scoot, no wheelies or burnouts or anything, I just ride around and the tyre wears however much it wears.

How do you find swapping between the scooter and the SV? I wish I had some spare money - I see that the SV1000S can be bought brand new for $12K with lower fairing brand new, bloody hell that seems like excellent value. That would make an excellent weekend bike with the scooter kept as a weekday commuter.

NZscoot

14th July 2009, 17:12

I've been thinking of making up something a bit larger, perhaps a sheet of light aluminium (or even something like radiator guard) cut to the same outside size as the standard air cleaner and then covered with Twin Air, that should give enough surface area.

I wonder too just how "unique" the Sym air cleaner is ? Maybe Sym have designed an air filter specifically for this bike, but more likely they've simply used an existing design from a specialist filter manufacturer somewhere in Taiwan. I saw an advert from someone like Polini for washable air filters and some of them looked at least broadly similar in shape to the Sym item. Maybe there's an aftermarket item out there somewhere,,,

Hmm..that makes me think. I know a chap here that makes steel mesh. Perhaps he has a bit I could use. There is probably more than half the surface area not used. Should be very easy. I'm going to look into it.

Flange

14th July 2009, 21:51

How do you find swapping between the scooter and the SV? I wish I had some spare money - I see that the SV1000S can be bought brand new for $12K with lower fairing brand new, bloody hell that seems like excellent value. That would make an excellent weekend bike with the scooter kept as a weekday commuter.

No real problem, I'm just very careful to re-calibrate the brain during the first ten or so KM on the SV. Occasionally I am left wondering why the SV doesn't slow down when I squeeze the left lever...

I bought my SV new in 03, not with any particular plan of keeping it long term, but it's just kind of happened that way. I'm fortunate in being able to try all the latest and greatest bikes - R1s, Gix 750 & 1000, Duc 1098 etc, long enough to get past the initial "gee whiz" and so far none of them have compelled me to change. Over the years I've messed around with the SV quite a bit but even stock they're a very good bike. Maybe their biggest problem is the "budget" tag they seem to have acquired, probably with the assistance of fashion-driven journos. Particularly in 03 they were a quite advanced bike and even today they're certainly not outdated technically, and the component list is certainly not that of a budget bike.

Performance-wise they don't have the top end of the litre fours, but up to around 200 or so they seem to be as good as anything, better than most. On the full front straight at Taupo pretty much the only bikes that get away are the ones being ridden by better riders.

Best of all, if ya don't need a brand new one there's plenty available second hand in tidy condition for seven or eight grand.

Cheers
Flange

Flange

14th July 2009, 22:01

Hmm..that makes me think. I know a chap here that makes steel mesh. Perhaps he has a bit I could use. There is probably more than half the surface area not used. Should be very easy. I'm going to look into it.

Yair, that would be the go. Trace the outline of an original filter onto the mesh & cut it out. Then trace it onto some filter foam, cut that out and bond it on around the edges of the mesh.

Or something like that.

Let me know how you get on. Ya wouldn't need a very close mesh.

Did I read somewhere that you work in the medical technology field ? If so, we would expect a masterpiece !

Cheers
Flange

MarkH

14th July 2009, 23:55

Maybe their biggest problem is the "budget" tag they seem to have acquired

I would describe them as damn good value rather than budget.

Performance-wise they don't have the top end of the litre fours, but up to around 200 or so they seem to be as good as anything, better than most.

That is all the performance I would ever need - I would love to get a nice sports-tourer for weekend riding. What happens at 200+ is for racers to worry about on the track.

Alas my budget is worse than zero at the moment so I will have to wait for my finances to improve before buying a nice bike.

SS90

15th July 2009, 05:13

Mileage is now 16,800 and all's well.

According to the service manual, I should have fitted a new drive belt at 12,000km but I've been keeping a good eye on the original belt and there's no sign of cracking or perishing. Wear is measurable but it is still well within the specified width tolerance, so I've ordered another belt just in case and will run out the standard one until it gets down to 22.5mm wide.

I don't know how my type of running would affect belt wear. I live rural and most of my running is open road so the bike spends most of it's life around 100-120km/hr. Does this cause more or less belt wear than would town running with it's continuous speeding up and slowing down ? Dunno really.

While that is very good mileage from a belt, I would personally caution you on the reason the manufactures suggest you replace the belts earlier than it appears you should.

The pulleys (particularly the front one) sustain quite alot of wear during normal operation.

Normally this wear is difficult too see (because the surface gets quite polished during normal operation), the best way is to run your finger along the drive surface of the pulley........most likely you will feel a "groove" where the belt travels through it's range (also the groove will be at it's deepest at the point where the belt sits during it's "normal" operation.....this will vary from owner to owner, like you say, you use it at open road speeds, so it sits in one position more than constantly moving through it's range, like you would expect on a scooter used in town and the assosiated stop/start motoring.

If you allow the wear to get quite deep, then when you do replace the belt, the new belt will be running on considerably "deep" grooves.

My opinion is that the new belt will simply not last as long as the first, due to the pully wear situation.

I am not saying that the belt will snap immediately, but it is most likely that it will wear prematurely and either wear out substantually faster than the fist one, or perhaps even break unexpectedly (between service inspections)

Personally I recommend a thorough inspection of the pully system, with careful attention to the surface when you do replace the belt.

Flange

15th July 2009, 18:42

SS90

16th July 2009, 05:33

Thanks for that SS90, I will put The Beast up on the workbench this weekend and check the pulley faces. Do both front and rear pulleys tend to grove ? Also what do you know about the relative merits of kevlar belts ?

The thought of a breakage has been foremost in my considerations, that could be more than just an embuggerance if it happens far from home. Jocelyn and I are planning on doing the Burt Munro in November; I wouldn't be happy to suffer a belt failure down there.

Cheers
Flange

Most (all) rear pullys are steel, and while they certainly do wear, it takes significantly high mileage to affect them.

The fronts are all aluminium (hence more wear).

Also don't forget to check the front pully rollers (inside the pully assembly), they should be round, and any signs of flat spots (even on one roller) will cause acceleration losses!

I have noticed on front pullys a tendancy for a rubber build up (the opposite of the groove problem!) from belt wear. You can clearly see a black groove from the belt.This is easily removed with brake cleaner and elbow grease (normally)

To be honest, I know pro's or con's with kevlar belts, but I would be confident that such an item would cause premature pully wear.........

Niced too see someone taking a real interest in CVT maintenance!

Flange

17th July 2009, 23:33

To be honest, I know pro's or con's with kevlar belts, but I would be confident that such an item would cause premature pully wear.........

Niced too see someone taking a real interest in CVT maintenance!

Dunno really. I would imagine that the coefficient of friction between the belt and pulley, the amount of it's material that the belt sacrifices, and the temperature at which the belt and pulley run at would all combine to dictate the rate of wear of the pulley.

I once saw a video of a CVT running with the cover off (apparently a very dangerous practice) and one of the things which really stood out was the amount of whip which the belt experienced as it came off the pulleys. I would imagine that the greater the whip, the greater the amount of flexion the belt is experiencing, and therefore the greater the heat buildup in the belt and pulleys. I wonder what effect the use of kevlar belting would have on this whip ?

I thought while watching the video that perhaps some sort of idler close to the point at which the belt comes off the pulley might help to settle things down a bit and make life easier for the belt.

Also the amount of dirt accumulating inside the CVT housing must have quite an impact, although this factor would probably be independent of the belt material. The Sym has a foam filter on the air intake of the CVT housing. When the bike was new I treated the filter with a little K&N air filter oil to make it a bit more efficient at trapping dust.

I really appreciate having people to discuss these things with.

Cheers
Flange

Spearfish

19th July 2009, 23:47

One of the modifications moped riders do is fit a racing version of variator, they are slightly larger in diameter and have a better ramp face angle.
I think for every 1mm lost in belt width is around 3kmh lost in speed, probably not a problem for larger scooters but it sure is for mopeds.
Another thing to play with is the roller weights, lighter weights = more acceleration for around town but less top end ( the two faces are pushed together slower and a lesser amount making the variator a smaller diameter for longer) or heavier weights = more top end but less acceleration (pulley faces move faster and further for a larger diameter and engine load).
They also get slightly longer belts so the belt can travel further out to the edge of the pulley. When I did mine it added 10kph over the standard kit for the same engine revs. Manufactures set them at an average weight for average use.
I know malossi make a full replacement multivar kit for most maxi scooters but I don't know how easy they are to get here in NZ.
The on-line http://www.sip-scootershop.com/main/base/Home.aspx is very big and popular but getting the bits here would be horrendously expensive.

SS90

20th July 2009, 08:54

I thought while watching the video that perhaps some sort of idler close to the point at which the belt comes off the pulley might help to settle things down a bit and make life easier for the belt.

Also the amount of dirt accumulating inside the CVT housing must have quite an impact, although this factor would probably be independent of the belt material. The Sym has a foam filter on the air intake of the CVT housing. When the bike was new I treated the filter with a little K&N air filter oil to make it a bit more efficient at trapping dust.

I really appreciate having people to discuss these things with.

Cheers
Flange

I'm a little lazy to google it just now, but I know that Polaris used to have (maybe they still do) CVT high performance quads (I think mid 90's) and while I never saw one with the covers off, I would ASSUME (dangerous I know) that they would have a really good system (high performance set up) If anything would have an idler roller, my guess would be that they would!

Personally, I would try and find some pictures of such a set up, I too would be interested in seeing if they dramatically altered the somewhat "tried and true" system we see today (that seem somewhat unchanged it 25 years or so!

Flange

27th August 2009, 20:46

So here we have two takes on the GSX-R can conversion. My (black) one has an 01 can while Jocelyn's (blue) scoot has a can from an 03 GSX-R1000 which is 110mm longer and does I believe have a rudimentary catalytic converter in it. I think that the 03 Suzukis used a catalytic lining around the outside of a straight through tube rather than the more common honeycomb type so it's not likely to pose gas flow problems as it gets older.

Given the option I would rather use the 01 can as, being shorter the centre of mass would be further forward and thus put less load on the brackets. If that proves to be a real problem I will put a second mount further back on the can.

Neither muffler seems to provide any noticeable performance difference from the standard SYM item, the major advantage is the saving of 6kg of unsprung weight from the rear suspension which does produce a dramatic improvement in suspension action.

Where I have been able to obtain a modest performance gain is with the air filter. I've previously described cutting the pleated paper out of a standard filter and replacing it with Twin Air filter foam. Problem was, the surface area of pleated paper of a given size is significantly greater than that of the equivalent sized piece of foam. So, with the help of a piece of wire mesh from Mitre 10's garden centre and a larger piece of Twin Air foam, both sized and shaped to completely fill the airbox, I've made up a washable filter which probably has a rather greater surface area than the original paper pleats, This does produce a slight improvement in mid-range power and on the Ohope hill the scoot now gets two or three km/hr more speed by the top. I've yet to check the exhaust gas but suspect that it's marginally lean at most throttle settings so maybe there's a bit of power to be gained by raising the needle a tad and perhaps going up a size on the main jet.

I haven't photographed my home made filter as it looks a bit muttley, but if experience proves it to be viable I might make another tidier one and post a picture.

Another approach I'm considering is to put a cylindrical foam filter (a la motorcross) on the intake snorkel and leaving the airbox empty. Advantages would include easier access and potentially greater still surface area. Maybe.

Still on the original belt at 19,000km, no sign of wear on the pulleys. I've bought a new belt (if anybody needs specs and measurements let me know and I will post them) but whilst my scoot is doing maybe 200rpm more than Jocelyn's at 100km/hr (hers has covered less than 4,000 very gentle km) I don't think this is reason enough to change the belt yet. If the belt starts showing signs of fraying around the sides or cracking anywhere, or if the revs raise much more, then I will change it.

Cheers
Flange

Flange

27th August 2009, 20:51

Crap ! Don't know what went wrong there but no photo. Try again...

Gizzit

28th August 2009, 17:50

Nice looking scoots !! :niceone:

They look like a good, easy size to maneuver. How do they do on the open road ?

From what I've read about SYM, they make very good machinery. Apparently they are well designed, well engineered, and built to last.

Flange

28th August 2009, 21:56

Yes to all that. The quality, both mechanical and finish-wise is top notch and there are some real nice touches that you often don't find even on top end sports bikes like angled valve stems, braided brake lines, HID lights and so on.

I live rural so a lot of my running is open road which the Sym handles with aplomb. They will cruise happily at an indicated 120 and I've seen 145 indicated which is good enough in this age of heavy policing and draconian punishment - even on the thou I don't tend to cruise much quicker than that. It's great to have that massive reserve of speed and acceleration that a modern sports bike gives, even if it's not used all that much, but on a scooter, well....

I do look at things like the T-Max and the 650 Burgman and think that it would be nice to have the extra horsepower, and probably if the scooter was my only bike I would consider something bigger. But all of those bigger scooters also carry quite a bit more weight so I'm not sure just how much difference there would be in performance. Certainly the 650 would have more top end, but it would be interesting to run against one just to see what the real-world difference is.

Cheers
Flange

NZscoot

31st August 2009, 16:45

I'm back to square one regarding the air filter. Factory gives best performance/economy. I haven't had time to make the bigger mesh one yet. I like your exhaust mods. I think it would look mean on the Citycom.

MarkH

31st August 2009, 19:23

I do look at things like the T-Max and the 650 Burgman and think that it would be nice to have the extra horsepower, and probably if the scooter was my only bike I would consider something bigger. But all of those bigger scooters also carry quite a bit more weight so I'm not sure just how much difference there would be in performance. Certainly the 650 would have more top end, but it would be interesting to run against one just to see what the real-world difference is.

My 400 does OK, but the 650 not only has more power and a top speed of around 165kph actual (measured by GPS) but also it has a computer controlled CVT instead of centrifugal CVT. This means that it has a 'power' setting where it will accelerate pretty darned well. The 650 also has the engine & exhaust bolted to the frame, not the swing arm - for proper 'motorcycle like' suspension.

But yeah - weight . . . The 650 has plenty of it. My 400 has a dry weight of 199kg and the 650 has about 70kg more. TBH my 400 doesn't feel all that heavy - I think the low CoG of the scooter makes it much easier to throw 199kg around.

You don't have a 3rd lightweight exhaust lying around do you? I would love to drop the unsprung weight of the burgy.

Flange

1st September 2009, 20:35

My 400 does OK, but the 650 not only has more power and a top speed of around 165kph actual (measured by GPS) but also it has a computer controlled CVT instead of centrifugal CVT. This means that it has a 'power' setting where it will accelerate pretty darned well. The 650 also has the engine & exhaust bolted to the frame, not the swing arm - for proper 'motorcycle like' suspension.

But yeah - weight . . . The 650 has plenty of it. My 400 has a dry weight of 199kg and the 650 has about 70kg more. TBH my 400 doesn't feel all that heavy - I think the low CoG of the scooter makes it much easier to throw 199kg around.

You don't have a 3rd lightweight exhaust lying around do you? I would love to drop the unsprung weight of the burgy.

You've raised a few good points there Mark. The computer controlled CVT does raise interesting possibilities like Power/Economy settings, but of the various automatic vehicles I've used which have this sort of option, once I've got past the "I'm a Kiwi Male" stage, I tend to leave them in "normal" and let the gearbox get on with the job. The best example of this was a Mitsi Diamante three litre MIVEC with tiptronic transmission which we used to own. For a couple of weeks it was fun playing with the tiptronic particularly when coupled to such a potent motor, but once the novelty wore off it just got left in full auto and the complexity became irrelevant.

The plain old vanilla CVT in the SYM is immaculately behaved - it clutches off the line nicely, revs go to what I assume is maximum torque and then stay there. On the over-run the transmission maintains a nice level of engine braking. For my money, I would happily trade the ability to influence how the gearbox works for simplicity and light weight.

As for separating the engine/trans from the swingarm, yes, in the purist sense this is quite desirable. The holy grail of suspension design is to absolutely minimise unsprung weight. If we plonk say 40kg of engine & transmission onto the swingarm, we are doing terrible things to the unsprung weight but if we take the seat unit off the Sym and look at how the engine/trans is mounted we find that yes, while the engine/trans/swingarm/exhaust are all one unit, the pivot point for the whole gubbins is placed so as to (I guess) put roughly half of the combined weight forward of the pivot point and roughly half behind. So while the likes of the 650 Burg and the 500 TMax have no engine weight bearing directly on the swingarm, they also don't have any of the swingarm/rear wheel/rear brake assembly weight counterbalanced in any way. Maybe, the basic scooter setup is not such a bad system providing the balance factor is right. The basic scooter setup does have more mass to be set in motion and then stopped when the rear wheel encounters a bump, but a well balanced scooter setup is at least counter-balanced which the 650 Burg or TMax aren't.

As for a third lightweight can, well sorry Dude I don't, but the 03 can which is now on Jocelyn's scoot came from Trademe for the princely sum of $35 delivered. Probably most GSX-R1000s have had an aftermarket can fitted, so there must be hundreds of those lovely titanium cans loitering in dark corners around the country. If you manage to get your hands on one I would be real happy to help you fit it.

Cheers
Flange

Flange

1st September 2009, 20:54

ps - the non-titanium Suzuki cans such as those fitted to the SV1000 or Bandit are considerably heavier than the titanium jobbies. If you are thinking of a conversion, make sure that it's a titanium can that you put on, preferably the shorter 01/02 can.

MarkH

2nd September 2009, 08:17

You've raised a few good points there Mark. The computer controlled CVT does raise interesting possibilities like Power/Economy settings, but of the various automatic vehicles I've used which have this sort of option, once I've got past the "I'm a Kiwi Male" stage, I tend to leave them in "normal" and let the gearbox get on with the job. The best example of this was a Mitsi Diamante three litre MIVEC with tiptronic transmission which we used to own. For a couple of weeks it was fun playing with the tiptronic particularly when coupled to such a potent motor, but once the novelty wore off it just got left in full auto and the complexity became irrelevant.

A while back I was talking to Balu - he has an '08 Burgman 650 Exec. He told me that the only time the manual selection thingy did anything useful for him was when he was cruising and in manual he could put it in 'overdrive' i.e set a higher gear ratio than would normally be used. On the other hand the power setting is actually useful for a quick take off from the lights, especially if you can get a good launch and embarrass a 'real' bike.

If only the 650 didn't weigh about the same as a baby elephant . . .

Oh well, my 400 now has a new WoF and 2 new tyres and is ready for a nice ride down to Waiouru on Friday. I hope it doesn't get cold in Waiouru :cold: since I'll be in a tent for a couple of nights. I better wear some thermals underneath and some leathers over top.

Flange

17th November 2009, 08:13

Well, I guess even Ducati's MotoGP team are constantly ironing out bugs so maybe I shouldn't feel too despondent that my flash GSX-R can tried to fall apart.

It wasn't really too much of a surprise given the amount of muffler overhanging past the top mounting bracket and I did have a mod planned to cater for the day.

The first photo shows the way that the aluminium sleeve cracked and tore around the top bracket. The aluminium sleeve is very thin indeed and so required a bit of clever welding by Jimmy Steadman to whom my thanks go to yet again.

Next we made up an inverted T bracket to support the muffler from below using one of the mounting points from the OEM muffler, then secured the muffler to the bracket using a couple of large stainless steel hose clamps. While we were at it we made up a second bracket to fit to Jocelyn's scooter, just to make sure that the problem doesn't repeat there.

If this doesn't do the job, then there's always a third OEM mounting point on the swingarm below the front of the muffler. It would be easy to make up another inverted T bracket to go there.

21,000km now and the first factory part has required replacement - a rear wheel bearing was getting a bit grumbly so the guys at Whakatane Motorcycles took the initiative and replaced it while fitting a nice new set of tyres. I'm still on the original drive belt with no undue wear showing to either the belt or the pulleys.

This was my fourth rear and third front tyre. The Dunlop Scootline's gave me 9,000km, about 50% more than either the OEM Maxxis or the Conti Twist. The Dunlops also handled very well until the last thousand or so KM at which point they became flattened off to the point that the scooter was getting quite hard to tip in, and was forever trying to run wide coming out of corners. I was really keen to stick with Dunlops but could only get a front so the rear is now a Metzler ME7-Teen - oh joy, who thinks up these fucking names ? It does handle very nicely though.

Jocelyn and I are off to the South Island on Saturday, riding down with a group from Underwood & Wilkins en route to the Burt Munro. Two weeks cruisin' the south should be a treat.

Cheers
Flange

The Baron

17th November 2009, 10:43

Hi Flange.
My wife and I do enjoy your updates so keep them coming.
Have a great trip to the Burt Munroe.

Flange

18th November 2009, 06:08

Hi Flange.
My wife and I do enjoy your updates so keep them coming.
Have a great trip to the Burt Munroe.

Cheers for that Mate, will do both.

Our sub set of the Underwood and Wilkins group will be passing through Masterton on Sunday so watch for a red VTR, a red Buell, a VFR and the two mighty SYMs - give us a wave if you see us.

How's Mrs Baron's biking experience going ?

NZscoot

20th November 2009, 12:37

This was my fourth rear and third front tyre. The Dunlop Scootline's gave me 9,000km, about 50% more than either the OEM Maxxis or the Conti Twist. The Dunlops also handled very well until the last thousand or so KM at which point they became flattened off to the point that the scooter was getting quite hard to tip in, and was forever trying to run wide coming out of corners. I was really keen to stick with Dunlops but could only get a front so the rear is now a Metzler ME7-Teen - oh joy, who thinks up these fucking names ? It does handle very nicely though.

Jocelyn and I are off to the South Island on Saturday, riding down with a group from Underwood & Wilkins en route to the Burt Munro. Two weeks cruisin' the south should be a treat.

Cheers
Flange

Boy that GTS is heavy on tyres. I have 12000k's on the OEM Maxxis tyres on my SYM Citycom now and they had 3mm+ still at the last WOF 2 weeks ago.
Enjoy your south island trip. I can tell you that today is one beautiful day for scooting on the south island. Actually the last few weekends we have had some pretty awesome scooting weather. I did a 630km trip on the Saturday of two weekends ago and did both the Arthur's and Lewis Passes up to Punakaiki the Saturday before that. Good luck with your trip.

Flange

13th December 2009, 19:36

Well the South Island trip is done and dusted, we're both back at work with only the Mastercard payment to look forward to. It was an awesome trip with a great bunch of people. Special thanks to the organiser John Jones from Underwood & Wilkins and his good lady Roz - their arrangement and leadership were first rate.

And how did the scooters go ? Bloody well really. All up we covered about 4000km in just under two weeks with no mechanical woes at all. We did encounter two problems, one of them sort of unavoidable (some punctures), the other the result of bad planning really. In a previous post I commented on fitting new tyres to my bike before heading south. The rear tyre was a Metzler which performed OK but which was actually the wrong size. Standard is a 130/70-13 while the Metzler which arrived was a 130/60-13. By the time it arrived it was too late to do anything about it so we had no option but to use it. The lower profile tyre gives a harder ride but we can hack that. The real problem is that a lower profile effectively lowers the overall gearing of the bike which means that the motor is spinning faster at 100km/hr than it should. This was compounded by my wish to see how much life I could get out of the drive belt. A worn drive belt also effectively lowers the overall gearing so the cumulative effect of the lower profile tyre and the worn drive belt was that at 100km/hr my scoot was spinning at about 6,500rpm vs the 5,800rpm for Jocelyn's. Running locally this is not too much of a problem but for extended running like we did down south, the poor little sucker felt like it was revving it's nuts off all the time, particularly when it became necessary to defend the honour of the scooter brigade and up the pace a bit.

The group were as stated a great bunch of people but I could see that a few were a little, shall we say "amused" at the concept of scooters going with bikes on a trip that long. Being a gypsy tour we didn't ride in convoy, rather we all knew where to meet at night and how we got there was up to the individuals. That we found ourselves in a constant game of leapfrog with others from the group; and given that we were seldom last in at night, indicated that in real world terms the scooters toured at a pretty similar pace to the various bikes. By the time we left the group everybody seemed to have accepted the scooters pretty well.

So, what would I do differently next time ? First, I will take a tyre pando in addition to the push plug kit which I had. Jocelyn got a stone puncture 40km out the back of Masterton on Route 52. Because the tyre was flat I couldn't find the hole to put a plug into so we ended up riding it flat for 21km to the nearest "civilisation" - Eketahuna. There's not many towns I haven't been to but Eketahuna is one of them and shoot, I didn't even know if there was a petrol station there let alone one which would be open on Sunday afternoon. As it transpired there was a petrol station and it was open, but would you believe that it did not have a tyre pump ? Just to add insult to injury there is a beautiful Firestone depot right next door to the petrol station but you guessed it, Sunday afternoon, nobody home. The guy at G.A.S. was very helpful and eventually he did find a pando which I bought and was just about to put into the tyre when a staff member rolled up at the Firestone depot to put something away. He very kindly ran out an air hose for us, the hole was found and plugged and we were away again. So big ups to the man from Firestone Eketahuna and the man from G.A.S Eketahuna, both of them kind and helpful men.

I was mightily impressed that I was able to ride the scoot with no air at all in the rear tyre, for 21km at about 70km/hr without the tyre flying off the rim or suffering terminal damage. Not only that, but with a push plug repair it got us down to Blenheim where we got it repaired properly with a vulcanised patch, and then went on to cover another 3,500km. The OEM Maxxis tyres took a huge step up in my estimation on this trip !

Next time I will put a bit of slime into the tyres in the hope that this will prevent leaks from developing.

And I will never set off on a major trip with a worn drive belt and an undersized tyre ! Both bikes need a new rear tyre and I'm doing my best to find a tyre with a higher profile than standard, either a 130/80-13 or a 140/70-13. The Syms have plenty of power to pull a higher final gearing and for long distance work, higher gearing would allow either more relaxed cruising or higher speed cruising as desired.

Since returning I've done a fair bit of maintenance on the bikes which I will detail in a later post.

Cheers
Flange

Flange

26th December 2009, 22:10

After the Southern Oddyssey both bikes were due a bit of a birthday. First up, an oil change along with a general going-over.

As previously reported my drive belt was well overdue replacement. The manual says 12,000km and by this time mine had done 26,000km and measured a uniform 24mm wide. A new belt is 25mm wide and the manual specifies a minimum width of 23.5mm. So whilst my belt was still within tolerance and showed no sign of cracking, chafing, delaminating or whatever it had worn enough to cause a significant increase in revs at cruising speed and so had to go.

To replace the belt one needs to remove both the front and rear pulley. Both require a tool to hold the pulley assemblies still while the hub nuts are undone so I fabricated one of those out of a bit of mild steel strap - if anybody needs further details let me know and I will send a picture.

The front hub incorporates the centrifugal weights so I opened this, cleaned out the dust, checked the weights for round and found them well. Out of curiousity I weighed them and found them to be 22gm each as opposed to the 17gm which the workshop manual specifies - obviously the manual doesn't necessarily reflect what we get on the Kiwi market.

The rear pulley incorporates the centrifugal clutch which had built up plenty of dust from the linings and belt so again a thorough blow out was in order. After 26,000km the clutch linings showed little wear.

Visual inspection of both assemblies found no problems and so the new belt was fitted. This is a very simple and self-evident operation, as is reassembly using the aforementioned holding tool and a torque wrench. Both front and rear pulleys must come at least part way off their shafts to enable the belt to come off - there isn't enough clearance between the outer edges of the pulleys and the transmission casing to change the belt with the pulleys in situ.

Next came valve clearances. At 26,000km my bike was becoming progressively more reluctant to start when cold but not when hot which is often a symptom of valve clearances having closed up This proved to be the case. Both inlet valves had closed to no measurable clearance while the exhaust valves were both at the standard .15mm clearance. Adjustment is by screw and locknut except that the "screw" is in fact a small square headed bolt. The square head looked to be about the same size as the square drive bit used to do up wood screws so I tried a wood screw for size and sure enough it fitted the head of the adjuster bolt. So simply by bending a long wood screw to right angles I had a crude but effective tool to hold the adjusting bolt whilst tightening the lock nut. With the inlet valves set to the appropriate .1mm clearance the bike now starts and idles properly from cold. It also develops noticeably more power, reaching about 88km/hr up the Ohope Hill vs about 82km/hr before adjustment.

Access to the valves is quite reasonable with the seat unit removed along with the plastic trims above and below the footwells.

At 8,000km the valve clearances on Jocelyn's bike were correct.

The spark plug gap in my bike had opened out to about 40 thou so I brought this back to 25 thou. Modern spark plugs are amazingly reliable devices given the job they perform. That the standard NGK fitted to the SYM has fired reliably for 26,000km speaks volumes for their quality. I have memories of the crap which masqueraded as spark plugs back in the '60s (the first NZ made Champions come to mind) which needed replacement about once a week in the small two stroke engine which "powered" me around the streets of Christchurch in those days. Compare this to the iridium plugs in a Mitsubishi that we had which were absolutely fine after 188,000km when we sold the car. I am a bit of an optimist, believing that if there is only one of anything to keep an engine running then it probably will fail so both bikes will shortly be fitted with nice iridium plugs. They're relatively expensive at about $35 each, but this is cheap in comparison to the cost of getting stranded somewhere.

Finally, when talking about mileage I called in to a scooter shop in Christchurch to have a look at a Kymco 500 and while there a guy mentioned a SYM 250 being used by a rural postie down Invercargill way which he understood to have covered around 80,000km so far without problems.

Finally, new tyres for the rear of both bikes. I searched fruitlessly for something a bit higher profile than the standard 130/70 so standard it is, this time IRCs. One is Japanese, the other made in Thailand. Both required more scrubbing in than most tyres, but now that they are scrubbed they seem to handle well so we will see how they last.

Cheers
Flange

Flange

16th November 2010, 21:15

223706223707

So, while we were away in Oz for a few weeks, a couple of rats took up residence in the bodywork of Jocelyn's scoot, gnawed through the bottom of the radiator overflow bottle, drank the contents and promptly died in situ. By the time we got back they were pretty rank, and removing their remains involved removing all of the bodywork.

For no particular reason, here's a photo of the gnawed radiator bottle, and more interestingly, the Sym without it's bodywork. Thanks again to the good guys at Whakatane Motorcycles I've scored a complete Sym 250 with significant frontal crash damage. The forks and front bodywork are shagged and I didn't bother keeping the frame (it was a bit bent) but the rest is now stripped and tucked away just in case they're ever needed.

As an aside, while over in Perth my mate Colin loaned me his "old" (2009) GSX-R1000 and together we managed to get one decent ride in, Colin on his "new" (2010) GSX-R1000 and stepson Tony on his K7 R1, from Perth to a small town called York, about a hundred Ks inland. Temperature in the mid-20s, not a cloud in the sky and once we got out of Perth and off the main road, sod all traffic and pretty good roads. There's a nice bike cafe in York which was unfortunately closed that day but we did manage to score an outstanding burger and a cold coke at a pub down the road. The serving wench was wearing a Monteiths apron so I enquired as to whether they sold that beer, which comment she answered with a blank "What's Montheiths?"...

The Gix is of course a lovely bike to ride combining stellar yet very controllable performance with surprisingly high levels of comfort. Everybody should have one in their garage. All in all, not a shabby day.

Cheers
Flange