Question on which Honda for F3

[jnr]

Hi,

I will soon be in the market again for a racebike, although I'll be at the lower end of the grid I prefer F3 simply due to the less restrictive rules on modifications you can do.

I had thought about an SV and while this is still an option I began to look for something different and came across the V4 VFR400 & RVF400. From what I gather the RVF is the one to go for although with their current market value I had thought of the VFR and use the money saved and spend it on a newer front end etc. I hadn't really thought about the CBR yet so not really sure about it.

So I just thought I'd throw it out there for you opinions on the better of the Honda 400's.

Cheers, Jeremy.

[James Deuce]

RVF's are a lot harder to get power out of than VFRs.

IMO a CBR400RR is a much better bet for F3. It's easier to get parts for (but not THAT easy), makes more power, and most importantly is much, much easier to work on than the V4s..

[mark247]

Yea id say the NC30 is a better starting point because of the more powerful engine. Parts are easy to get as well.

[k14]

If you want a honda for F3 then a RS125 is the only option :Punk:

[scracha]

If you want a honda for F3 then a RS125 is the only option :Punk:

CBR but get an NC29 as the NC23 is a bitch to find bits for.

[Nicksta]

between the two options you give, VFR is better than RVF in my opinion.....
jury is still out as to weather CBR is faster than the VFR... ay stevie ;)

[johnsv650]

best honda for f3 would be a 126cc (over size 125).
125's aren't allowed in f3 but a 126 is .......
fastest option...

[lostinflyz]

RVF's with nc30 carbies are a good option. the NC35 engine is a bit higher spec (lightened bits and bobs) but the carbies are useless. ive got a nc30 frames nc35 motor and its primo. 65bhp rear wheel. yee haw, not to hard to get alot snot outta (most 400's are around 60ish, much more than that is expensive,usually). either way theres quite a few bits about for them and outside the motor there not to bad to work on.

make sure no matter what that the bikes got a 17" rear (or you have about a grand lying round to buy one, give or take).

Theres a good CBR400 for sale down here. goes well and i wouldn't say theres a pace difference. 2 and a half grand i think. but the VFR's are alot cooler looking, and thats what matters. haha

[jnr]

Thanks for your help guys, am I correct in that the NC30 comes with the 18" rear as std as opposed to the NC35 fitted with a 17" How hard is a spare set to acquire and are there other options to switch - although I understand choices are limited due to single side.

[jnr]

If you want a honda for F3 then a RS125 is the only option :Punk:

Yeah, had thought about a 125 but 95kg is a bit of a handicap!!

[jnr]

Theres a good CBR400 for sale down here. goes well and i wouldn't say theres a pace difference. 2 and a half grand i think. but the VFR's are alot cooler looking, and thats what matters. haha[/QUOTE]

Yeah, they definately look a lot better, :niceone: even better with a TYGA bodykit.

[enigma51]

You should realy ask your boyfriend which one is better.

[mark247]

Thanks for your help guys, am I correct in that the NC30 comes with the 18" rear as std as opposed to the NC35 fitted with a 17" How hard is a spare set to acquire and are there other options to switch - although I understand choices are limited due to single side.

You really gotta search for them. You only need a rvf rear wheel, the front is the same. They go for around $500.

[jnr]

Cheers for that, what have you done to yours?

[limbimtimwim]

The CBR if you are tall (Aye Deano and Stevie? And I mean they are lanky, not fat) the VFR if you are small (Isn't that right Nicky?) the RVF if you are rich (Errrr... Don't know anyone..).

Since I know the RVF the best, I'll make some sweeping statements that are bound to be incorrect.

What you do have in the RVF is brakes and handling, what you don't have is power.

I'm pretty sure you can make some serious power with it. The problem is that muffer has to come off, but then your fuelling is all up the poo. So you need an expert. Then you are out of money. Then you find a big bore kit, but you shove it under your bed because you don't have the money to get it done properly.

[lostinflyz]

The CBR if you are tall (Aye Deano and Stevie? And I mean they are lanky, not fat) the VFR if you are small (Isn't that right Nicky?) the RVF if you are rich (Errrr... Don't know anyone..).

Since I know the RVF the best, I'll make some sweeping statements that are bound to be incorrect.

What you do have in the RVF is brakes and handling, what you don't have is power.

I'm pretty sure you can make some serious power with it. The problem is that muffer has to come off, but then your fuelling is all up the poo. So you need an expert. Then you are out of money. Then you find a big bore kit, but you shove it under your bed because you don't have the money to get it done properly.

yea that sounds about right. tuning a VFr/rvf is a bit of black art and alot of pain. and big bore is only for those rolling in money or with little else going on in life. but ive always been fond of grenades

[roadracingoldfart]

between the two options you give, VFR is better than RVF in my opinion.....
jury is still out as to weather CBR is faster than the VFR... ay stevie ;)


I can answer that one Nicki......
Stevies CBR is a whale :crybaby: and mine is (as you know ) faster hehehe and thats always going to be the case :yes:


I prefer the CBR as i own one and as i also have to work on them i can say with honesty that the V4s are just a shitty project to undertake due to the design. The CBR is a breeze by comaprison to work on. Just try to fit a set of carbs to a V4 and then call me wrong !!!

As for the 17 inch wheel , you can get the tyres in this size but you will pay a slight premium for the honour.
CBR will fit many other Honda wheels where the VFR is a bit more of a trick as there was only a few models with them so rarity is an issue.

Either way it is alot of fun and F3 is getting to be a big class with the option to cross enter into Post Classic Junior if you buy a pre 89 model.

Paul.

[roadracingoldfart]

[QUOTE=limbimtimwim;1714765]The CBR if you are tall (Aye Deano and Stevie? And I mean they are lanky, not fat) the VFR if you are small (Isn't that right Nicky?) the RVF if you are rich (Errrr... Don't know anyone..).

QUOTE]

Hell man , im 6 foot 2 inches and i fit perfectly onto the CBR, the VFR makes me look like (and feel like ) Mr Bean on a bad posture day.


Paul

[limbimtimwim]

Just try to fit a set of carbs to a V4 and then call me wrong !!!Ick! :cry: There is a trick/horrible hack involving a small screwdriver to make it easier. But I still hate it.
Hell man , im 6 foot 2 inches and i fit perfectly onto the CBR, the VFR makes me look like (and feel like ) Mr Bean on a bad posture day. That's what I mean, 6"2' is lanky, and it seems lanky types fit on the CBR well. I think the CBR400 was physically larger than it needed to be.

[Clivoris]

I'm having shitloads of fun on my CBR, but I have discovered that it can be a challenge keeping a 20 year old bike running well. That too is part of the fun. I imagine that what others have said about the V4s being even more challenging (and expensive) may be true.

[jnr]

I'm 6"3 so might be a squeeze on the VFR!!

[jnr]

I'm having shitloads of fun on my CBR, but I have discovered that it can be a challenge keeping a 20 year old bike running well. That too is part of the fun. I imagine that what others have said about the V4s being even more challenging (and expensive) may be true.

I know what you mean, the FZR went fine but finding that certain part always seemed to end up in one getting fabricated or something newer used.

[limbimtimwim]

I'm 6"3 so might be a squeeze on the VFR!!Try it though. You aren't exactly riding SH1 Wellington to Auckland non-stop.

[mark247]

I'm 6"3 so might be a squeeze on the VFR!!

im 6"2 and i fit on my VFR, just...

pic of proof

[JJ58]

Hey good idea to ask around on this matter. I've owned a VFR before and I fitted an RS250 rear wheel to it. They are a lot of performance mods for both the RVF and VFR. You could by them all and spend around $40K plus and you'll have a bike that has less performance than a stock engined SV.

In terms of getting into racing, don't handicap yourself by getting something that's not competitive. Look at what's at the front of the field and get a similiar bike.

If you really want to buck the system and run a Honda then some suggestions are:

A sleeved down CBR600, that's lightened to the hilt,
A RS125 spec CRF450,
A RS125 Spec CR500
Ummm, err, that's where I run out of ideas...... It'll most likely be cheaper to sleeve a 600 down than what it would be to build up a competitive CBR400.

...My 2 cents worth anyway.

[lostinflyz]

Hey good idea to ask around on this matter. I've owned a VFR before and I fitted an RS250 rear wheel to it. They are a lot of performance mods for both the RVF and VFR. You could by them all and spend around $40K plus and you'll have a bike that has less performance than a stock engined SV.

In terms of getting into racing, don't handicap yourself by getting something that's not competitive. Look at what's at the front of the field and get a similiar bike.

If you really want to buck the system and run a Honda then some suggestions are:

A sleeved down CBR600, that's lightened to the hilt,
A RS125 spec CRF450,
A RS125 Spec CR500
Ummm, err, that's where I run out of ideas...... It'll most likely be cheaper to sleeve a 600 down than what it would be to build up a competitive CBR400.

...My 2 cents worth anyway.

Thats not fully true. i mean a 400 race bike is under 3 grand generally pretty sorted. any of your options you would first have to source the bits (what 10+ grand for a 600, similar for a motard and old RS125) and do all the work which is time and or money. for 5 grand you could pretty easily source out a 450 kit to get the snot or tune up your 400 motor a long way and itd be as much work as any of the others. and still alot cheaper.

if you wanna go front running you have to spend 30 grand (look at the SV boys at the front). for 30 grand you can make alot of things pretty competitive. especially in f3.

its def. not a 40K experience to get a stock SV motor matched. it wouldn't even cost a tenth of that.

but in f3 a better rider will beat 9/10 other bikes there no matter what hes riding. Its generally a starter class anyway. if you wanna go competivie (nationals) you need to do it on a SV and spend 20+ grand. but eric de boar has proved a ZXR450 can beat most the field. and then you gotta get up to william's level.

[JJ58]

Thats not fully true. i mean a 400 race bike is under 3 grand generally pretty sorted. any of your options you would first have to source the bits (what 10+ grand for a 600, similar for a motard and old RS125) and do all the work which is time and or money. for 5 grand you could pretty easily source out a 450 kit to get the snot or tune up your 400 motor a long way and itd be as much work as any of the others. and still alot cheaper.

if you wanna go front running you have to spend 30 grand (look at the SV boys at the front). for 30 grand you can make alot of things pretty competitive. especially in f3.

its def. not a 40K experience to get a stock SV motor matched. it wouldn't even cost a tenth of that.

but in f3 a better rider will beat 9/10 other bikes there no matter what hes riding. Its generally a starter class anyway. if you wanna go competivie (nationals) you need to do it on a SV and spend 20+ grand. but eric de boar has proved a ZXR450 can beat most the field. and then you gotta get up to william's level.

I know the past two owners of Eric's bike, and there's a lot that's gone into it. Also, I've seen a lot of very fast VFR's with lots of $$ thrown at them, and I'd doubt if any of them would even touch a pro twins bike.... Plus they're ticking hand genandes (remember to factor in a motor rebuild in your purchase price for a 400). That's why I think the best bang for buck would be a stock SV with a few mods, or some of the other suggestions I made (depending on the time you want to put into prepping). Plus SV's are easier and more plesant to race for an amatuer.

Honestly, if you look at the cost of setting up a F3 winning SV I think you'll be shocked at how cheap it is.... I think $30+k is a huge over exaggeration unless they're running WSB forks or something crazy like that, but you really wouldn't need that for F3..... Remember the motor's are stock, so that helps reliability..... A reasonably fresh ebay motor costs around $800USD.

But then if you just want to make up numbers then anything cheap would be great.

400's are only raced in vintage here, so it's funny that they're still being raced in a NZ national series..... I like the Kiwi attitude!!

[Shaun]

I agree with what jj is saying

Buy a 400, and get ya arse kicked, unless you have spent a shit load on it

I can and do build and sell, SV650 bikes, with full GSXR front end, and Penske rear shock, Body work, pipe, footpegs, stearing damper ( different brand than before)

$12k normally is the going price

Next one finished in 2 weeks from now

[jnr]

I understand what you guys mean, I'm not looking to get straight to the top - heck, if I qualify I'll be happy :laugh: - but I do want something reliable with a bit of poke.

I had previously looked at the idea of sleeving down a 600 the advantages are you clearly have a modern bike with all the bells and whistles. I have seen a few 450 kits in action, some reliable others just grenades popping at any given chance (more development/homework reqd)

I was heading down the VFR/RVF track just for something a little different out there but might have to refocus with something that "is less hassle". I enjoy F3 just for the fact you can do what ever you want so long as you meet the two rules in place for the class.

This used to lead to a class with two different kinds of people, the first would would tune their 400/450 to the hills, have all sorts of later/exotic parts fitted and just develop the bike over a few seasons and then you had the ones who just turned the key of an SV, with minor mods, although now Pro Twin has taken that away.

So, might have to look at other options that are around also, but still something a little out of left field. :msn-wink:

[TonyB]

All this is a bit of a moot point unless we know your budget.

Here's a spanner in the works.... if you REALLY want something different, get a Ducati 750SS. As long as its carburetted you can run it in F3. You can also run it in BEARS if there is a series in your area:cool:

Just don't do what I did and buy a Monster M750- too much development required.

[jnr]

Budget would be anywhere from 8-15K depending on a few factors

[JJ58]

Hey JNR, I'm not trying to steer you one way or another, but just a word of warning, I've seen people try to go a little left field before and generally it ends up in them either:

*being disillustioned because their bike is slow, they get fed up and quit racing,
or
* they spend so much time, effort and cash trying to get their bike to work that they get disillustioned and quit racing.

Even if you don't want top ten, don't handicap yourself or you may not enjoy your racing as much as you could, and you may waste a lot of cash and time.

...On the other hand, going left field always gives you an excuse for poor performance:niceone:

Saun's offer of a bike sounds like a good deal, and when time is taken into account would be the cheapest option......... Get on the track and have some fun!!!

[skaz]

Im glad I went for a 400 to start with. It was much more affordable than getting a 650 and I reckin they devlop your riding skills better than a 650 would.
Because the 400 dosent have the power of a 650 you have to learn to keep it in the sweet spot out of corners, carry higher corner speed and have better lines in order to stick with the 650's.
I totally agree however that at the pointy end of the field they arnt really competitive unless you put a lot of $$$ and effort into them, then again the result is kinda cool, I reckin 450's are awesome.
My main complaint about my 400 is that it dosent really do wheelies :(

[jnr]

Hey JNR, I'm not trying to steer you one way or another, but just a word of warning, I've seen people try to go a little left field before and generally it ends up in them either:

*being disillustioned because their bike is slow, they get fed up and quit racing,
or
* they spend so much time, effort and cash trying to get their bike to work that they get disillustioned and quit racing.

Even if you don't want top ten, don't handicap yourself or you may not enjoy your racing as much as you could, and you may waste a lot of cash and time.

...On the other hand, going left field always gives you an excuse for poor performance:niceone:

Saun's offer of a bike sounds like a good deal, and when time is taken into account would be the cheapest option......... Get on the track and have some fun!!!


No, I understand where you are coming from, just trying to sort ideas out, I won't be at the pointy end but do want something that is fun to ride and won't be handicapped with - thats more the rider ;)

[jnr]

Im glad I went for a 400 to start with. It was much more affordable than getting a 650 and I reckin they devlop your riding skills better than a 650 would.
Because the 400 dosent have the power of a 650 you have to learn to keep it in the sweet spot out of corners, carry higher corner speed and have better lines in order to stick with the 650's.
I totally agree however that at the pointy end of the field they arnt really competitive unless you put a lot of $$$ and effort into them, then again the result is kinda cool, I reckin 450's are awesome.
My main complaint about my 400 is that it dosent really do wheelies :(

Totally agree with you, I had a 400 a few years ago and racing against the SV's. Your riding skills come into it a lot more, the SV's used to bang down a gear and throw it into the corner later with the engine braking and if it was the wrong gear the torque would pull them out. No offence to any SV riders out there but they are different!

[roogazza]

Rather than wonder what Honda to race in F3 .
Why not find an SV650 and enter Pro twins ?
I mean thats gotta be cheap racing and the way it is at the moment they are struggling to get 6 to 10 bikes on the grid. ( top ten finish for sure !!! ha ha)
If pro twin falls on its face you can switch to F3 and be competitive there as well.
I don't know where some of these costs come from ?
(30 or 40 grand is just garbage) Gaz.

[lostinflyz]

sorry JJ you are right that you cant beat a SV money wise. but he wanted a honda.

To sleave down a 600 is nigh on a rebuild as well not to mention trying to sort out all sorts of bits and bobs with a new 600.

yes 450's are time bombs. but they have shown to be competitive.

theres a guy down here who rides a really nice setup (and looking) 750SS. im jealous of it.

but for the money you wanna spend and convenience get a SV really. Its not a whole lot that needs doing to be a good bike and its smack bang in your price bracket. for 12 grand set up off shaun sounds good as gold.

but for cool factor a 450 RVF would be awesome. Once i start making money im keen as pig shit to build one.

the 30 grand figure is what everyone says the front boys (f3 not pro twins) are dishing out on their SV's. paddock banter but thats the number im told.

[avgas]

ZXR SP would be my pick......but they are as rare as RVFs......
if you have a look around some ZXR's came here with the SP spec engine. These were mainly the H1 models.
Klowns/Steved old bike would have been perfect if they didn't blow the motor up........
Had about the same torque as the VFR, RVR, a bit more power then them, but lacked top speed (about 200-220 MAX) and lacked the handling. But better handling than the CBR RR and the FZR.

[TonyB]

Budget would be anywhere from 8-15K depending on a few factors
Then buy an SV off Shaun!! Go pro-twins racing- it wont get you to the front of the F3 grid, but when you race against other pro twins bikes you'll know exactly how good you are. If the other Pro-twins bikes kick your arse, you won't be left wondering if its because of their budget

And you wont be forever pissing around trying to fix a 20 year old bike. Seriously, it might seem like fun, but you'll soon get sick of it. Nothing is worse then breaking or having problems on race day. Get an SV and spend time developing your riding, not your bike.

[Ozzy27]

This is the Dyno Graph of my new project for a 450 F3 bike.
this engine is currently STD!!! I plan to develop some more.
If you are interested I would be happy to build more please PM me for details.
:yes:

[gav]

Budget would be anywhere from 8-15K depending on a few factors
If it had to be a "Honda" I'd buy an SV, paint it red and slap some wing and HRC stickers on it ........ :whistle:

[Shaun]

This is the Dyno Graph of my new project for a 450 F3 bike.
this engine is currently STD!!! I plan to develop some more.
If you are interested I would be happy to build more please PM me for details.
:yes:



Good work that man

[JJ58]

Ozzy, that's a lot of power for a 450, well done! I'll be looking forward to seeing it on the track in the future.

[svr]

the 30 grand figure is what everyone says the front boys (f3 not pro twins) are dishing out on their SV's. paddock banter but thats the number im told.

Its not rocket science, just look at the 3 or 4 national sv's and start adding it up (most of the money is in the chassis). Front-end, Ohlins TTX shock & cartridge forks, carbon wheels, brakes, etc. + motor work (cams, pistons, valves, springs, rods, crank lightening and balancing, porting, full system, etc...). Plus, 80+ hp sv's are fairly high maintenance devices.

[svr]

Ozzy, that's a lot of power for a 450, well done! I'll be looking forward to seeing it on the track in the future.

So `standard' 450 triples have standard sv's beaten on all fronts then? - chassis and power?, with no limitation on modifications (unlike the intake limitations for sv's). 10hp should be easy to find huh?

[CHET]

hey man just thought id put in my 2 cents here.I race a zxr 400 that i bought for 3 grand ,i havnt touched the motor and all thats been done to the suspension is change the fork oil and adjust it.My bike has been awesome and cheap and can be entered into posties and f3 (bang for youre buck).
Even with no real mods im still in the top three in posties,i dont think it matters too much what the brand is just get out there and give it a go.Thats all ive done and have been haveing a ball ever since. :Punk:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Then buy an SV off Shaun!! Go pro-twins racing- it wont get you to the front of the F3 grid, but when you race against other pro twins bikes you'll know exactly how good you are. If the other Pro-twins bikes kick your arse, you won't be left wondering if its because of their budget

And you wont be forever pissing around trying to fix a 20 year old bike. Seriously, it might seem like fun, but you'll soon get sick of it. Nothing is worse then breaking or having problems on race day. Get an SV and spend time developing your riding, not your bike.

Amen to that. seriously.

[glice]

Arnt you alowed 250 2strokes in f3? or am I thinking of something else. how competitve would something like an nsr be?

[HenryDorsetCase]

if it has to be a honda and money is no object, what about a Bros 650? They are lightish, nimble and watercooled. also have 17 inch wheels.

real money pit though, and youre trying to turn a sows ear into a silk purse.

If Shaun will do an SV for $12k that is CHEAP!

[svr]

Arnt you alowed 250 2strokes in f3? or am I thinking of something else. how competitve would something like an nsr be?

For 12k I think you could build a 250 2 stroke (Aprilia, NSR, RGV-sp, KR1-sp) that would beat a pro-twins SV, although `club' type riders would probably be better off on the SV. But it would be an F3 bike, of course. For 30k you could probably make the 2-stroke better than national level SV's.
All of which is a bit moot until we see the Tigcraft Aprilia (and maybe some 450 triples) in action...

[Shaun]

if it has to be a honda and money is no object, what about a Bros 650? They are lightish, nimble and watercooled. also have 17 inch wheels.

real money pit though, and youre trying to turn a sows ear into a silk purse.

If Shaun will do an SV for $12k that is CHEAP!



I SAID it first mate--Cheers

[scracha]

Get started on the 400 for well under 3 grand. Crash it a few times and have fun. If you wanna get competitive then I guess the SV650 is the way to go but every fule know Suzuki's b the fags choice in F3.

[svr]

If you wanna get competitive then I guess the SV650 is the way to go but every fule know Suzuki's b the fags choice in F3.

Must suck getting your arse routinely kicked by fag racers huh?!

[glice]

For 12k I think you could build a 250 2 stroke (Aprilia, NSR, RGV-sp, KR1-sp) that would beat a pro-twins SV, although `club' type riders would probably be better off on the SV. But it would be an F3 bike, of course. For 30k you could probably make the 2-stroke better than national level SV's.
All of which is a bit moot until we see the Tigcraft Aprilia (and maybe some 450 triples) in action...

I want to get into f3 but cant afford much and was thinking a 2stroke might be a good way to do it. do people really spend 30k in f3. I cant afford anywhere near that.

[svr]

I want to get into f3 but cant afford much and was thinking a 2stroke might be a good way to do it. do people really spend 30k in f3. I cant afford anywhere near that.

You don't have to - in F3 you can spend anything between say $1500 and over 30k and still have someone to race against. Its only winning against national level bikes that will cost the big money.
I'd say spend 5-6k on a SV and keep it pretty standard - you'll have a reasonable, newish bike for protwins and club F3. If you decide later that you want to win protwin you can always throw another 5k or so at it.
20yr old 400s make little sense unless you want a built-in excuse and 2 strokes are only for nostalgic people that have warped memories of them...

[scracha]

Must suck getting your arse routinely kicked by fag racers huh?!
Gah...and I was thinking of joining the F3 fags. Obviously I'm not a butch fag like you :scooter:

Chet and SVR are onto it though. If you've got less than 5 or 6 grand get a cheap 400 and spend another few hundred (cough) getting it sorted. If you've got the money then get an SV. If you're dipping your toes in the water then you can't really go wrong with the 400's though as you won't loose money on them. If you're a good rider in F3 it'll show regardless of what you're on.....and the reverse is true....sigh.

[lostinflyz]

I want to get into f3 but cant afford much and was thinking a 2stroke might be a good way to do it. do people really spend 30k in f3. I cant afford anywhere near that.


pending budget you can get a really well sorted f3 400 for about 3 grand (dont pay anymore unless its worked and got spares). if you got more then you get into the older SV's that have about the same snot as the really expensive 400's. if you have more then SV's or similar are your best bet. if you can ride (i.e. professionally pretty much) then you spend 30 grand as you cant just outride the competition at that level


You don't have to - in F3 you can spend anything between say $1500 and over 30k and still have someone to race against. Its only winning against national level bikes that will cost the big money.
I'd say spend 5-6k on a SV and keep it pretty standard - you'll have a reasonable, newish bike for protwins and club F3. If you decide later that you want to win protwin you can always throw another 5k or so at it.
20yr old 400s make little sense unless you want a built-in excuse and 2 strokes are only for nostalgic people that have warped memories of them...

In f3 it doesnt matter too much what you ride as everyone is relatively average as everyone is newish to racing or at a level they are comfy at and dont wanna go any faster. Theres alot of guys on alot of different bikes in the upper parts of the field usually. with pro twins and all there are alot of SV's out there which kinda distorts the picture but generally club wise it matters sweet FA what your riding. You might be a wee bit forward or a wee bit back on one bike or another but its club racing and who cares, i dont get paid either way.

I've found you notice who is generally around your pace and in front and behind and can gauge how your riding/racing against that. So ride what you like and dont complain (no one likes a moaner).

[Wingnut]

In f3 it doesnt matter too much what you ride as everyone is relatively average as everyone is newish to racing or at a level they are comfy at and dont wanna go any faster. Theres alot of guys on alot of different bikes in the upper parts of the field usually. with pro twins and all there are alot of SV's out there which kinda distorts the picture but generally club wise it matters sweet FA what your riding. You might be a wee bit forward or a wee bit back on one bike or another but its club racing and who cares, i dont get paid either way.

I've found you notice who is generally around your pace and in front and behind and can gauge how your riding/racing against that. So ride what you like and dont complain (no one likes a moaner).

That sounds good to me as I have just purchased a 400 to have a go at this racing thing. Looking forward to just having a good time in general and mixing it up with others at a similar pace. Should be fun.

[scracha]

C'mon then. What did ya get?

[Wingnut]

C'mon then. What did ya get?

Who me???? I got a CBR.

[glice]

Gah...and I was thinking of joining the F3 fags. Obviously I'm not a butch fag like you :scooter:

Chet and SVR are onto it though. If you've got less than 5 or 6 grand get a cheap 400 and spend another few hundred (cough) getting it sorted. If you've got the money then get an SV. If you're dipping your toes in the water then you can't really go wrong with the 400's though as you won't loose money on them. If you're a good rider in F3 it'll show regardless of what you're on.....and the reverse is true....sigh.

cool. I was hopeing to get an sv but I dont think I'll be able to afford it, so cheap 400 sounds like my best bet, or maby a 2stroke? or is that just a bad idea.
how much prep from stock do you guys do in f3?

[scracha]

cool. I was hopeing to get an sv but I dont think I'll be able to afford it, so cheap 400 sounds like my best bet, or maby a 2stroke? or is that just a bad idea.
how much prep from stock do you guys do in f3?

Cheap 2 stroke 250? I should coco. The SV is probably a better base to start with if you can stretch to it. Probably cheaper in the long run too :-) I'm sure some guys were racing Hyosung 650's last year too but maybe they blew up. 400's...they go for stupid prices in summer. Spend a couple of grand on one and then budget on another grand on rubber, spare levers, a decent service, etc.

Prep? Just get out there. When you start reaching the bike's limits then do more fettling. Ditch the lights, put on sticky tyres (I learn't the hard way that being a mean Scotsman on $hite old tyres means you'll probably crash), fit good brake pads and stiffen up the front end (all the 400's seem designed for 60Kg short Japanese guys) and go racing. If you've got a nice stock fairing in reasonable condition then sell it and buy a cheapo fibreglass one. Oh...and it doesn't hurt to bring spare footpegs, handlebars and brake/clutch levers.

The racers are a bloody nice crowd, very helpful, full of advice. You'll learn loads. Hell, I wish I'd done this racing malarky 15 years ago when I started riding. Be warned though, it's addictive and most racers have (un)healthy credit card balances.

[roadracingoldfart]

Cheap 2 stroke 250? I should coco. The SV is probably a better base to start with if you can stretch to it. Probably cheaper in the long run too :-) I'm sure some guys were racing Hyosung 650's last year too but maybe they blew up. 400's...they go for stupid prices in summer. Spend a couple of grand on one and then budget on another grand on rubber, spare levers, a decent service, etc.

Prep? Just get out there. When you start reaching the bike's limits then do more fettling. Ditch the lights, put on sticky tyres (I learn't the hard way that being a mean Scotsman on $hite old tyres means you'll probably crash), fit good brake pads and stiffen up the front end (all the 400's seem designed for 60Kg short Japanese guys) and go racing. If you've got a nice stock fairing in reasonable condition then sell it and buy a cheapo fibreglass one. Oh...and it doesn't hurt to bring spare footpegs, handlebars and brake/clutch levers.

The racers are a bloody nice crowd, very helpful, full of advice. You'll learn loads. Hell, I wish I'd done this racing malarky 15 years ago when I started riding. Be warned though, it's addictive and most racers have (un)healthy credit card balances.

Two strokes are quite expensive to race as anyone that has had one will tell you. Its a maintenance factor you have to build into the budget . :eek:
Most 400s are quite competative in amoungst the other 400s but the rider can make the diff to results. A well set up but not costly 400 will be hard to beat and even some of the fast 450s that appeared a few years ago didnt really have much of an advantage over my bike. (if 400s sell for silly prices im keen on a silly offer :msn-wink: )

As for credit card balances then Steevie will be the guru on that subject , i have been gluing his bike back together all year and its still not quitye finished lol .

[roadracingoldfart]

Cheap 2 stroke 250? I should coco. The SV is probably a better base to start with if you can stretch to it. Probably cheaper in the long run too :-) I'm sure some guys were racing Hyosung 650's last year too but maybe they blew up. 400's...they go for stupid prices in summer. Spend a couple of grand on one and then budget on another grand on rubber, spare levers, a decent service, etc.

Prep? Just get out there. When you start reaching the bike's limits then do more fettling. Ditch the lights, put on sticky tyres (I learn't the hard way that being a mean Scotsman on $hite old tyres means you'll probably crash), fit good brake pads and stiffen up the front end (all the 400's seem designed for 60Kg short Japanese guys) and go racing. If you've got a nice stock fairing in reasonable condition then sell it and buy a cheapo fibreglass one. Oh...and it doesn't hurt to bring spare footpegs, handlebars and brake/clutch levers.

The racers are a bloody nice crowd, very helpful, full of advice. You'll learn loads. Hell, I wish I'd done this racing malarky 15 years ago when I started riding. Be warned though, it's addictive and most racers have (un)healthy credit card balances.

Two strokes are quite expensive to race as anyone that has had one will tell you. Its a maintenance factor you have to build into the budget . :eek:
Most 400s are quite competative in amoungst the other 400s but the rider can make the diff to results. A well set up but not costly 400 will be hard to beat and even some of the fast 450s that appeared a few years ago didnt really have much of an advantage over my bike. (if 400s sell for silly prices im keen on a silly offer :msn-wink: )

As for credit card balances then Steevie will be the guru on that subject , i have been gluing his bike back together all year and its still not quite finished lol .

Paul.

[svr]

Two strokes are quite expensive to race as anyone that has had one will tell you. Its a maintenance factor you have to build into the budget . :eek:


Depends on the state of tune, of course, for 2 and 4 strokes. Standard 2 strokes can be cheap as to race.
70 hp SV - reliable, cheap, slow.
60 hp RGV (with fresh engine - not a 20yrs of `never been raced!' engine) - reliable, cheap, slow.
85hp SV - high maintenance, expensive, less slow.
70hp RGV - high maintenance, expensive, less slow.

Reliability is related to maintenance is related to speed to budget etc.

[glice]

Cheap 2 stroke 250? I should coco. The SV is probably a better base to start with if you can stretch to it. Probably cheaper in the long run too :-) I'm sure some guys were racing Hyosung 650's last year too but maybe they blew up. 400's...they go for stupid prices in summer. Spend a couple of grand on one and then budget on another grand on rubber, spare levers, a decent service, etc.

Prep? Just get out there. When you start reaching the bike's limits then do more fettling. Ditch the lights, put on sticky tyres (I learn't the hard way that being a mean Scotsman on $hite old tyres means you'll probably crash), fit good brake pads and stiffen up the front end (all the 400's seem designed for 60Kg short Japanese guys) and go racing. If you've got a nice stock fairing in reasonable condition then sell it and buy a cheapo fibreglass one. Oh...and it doesn't hurt to bring spare footpegs, handlebars and brake/clutch levers.

The racers are a bloody nice crowd, very helpful, full of advice. You'll learn loads. Hell, I wish I'd done this racing malarky 15 years ago when I started riding. Be warned though, it's addictive and most racers have (un)healthy credit card balances.

I'm thinking 400, unless that 2stroke comes through. and I'm pretty short and 60kg, so I rekon I'll be right.
how many guys are out there running stokers. what sort of maintinace do you lot do?

[Ivan]

my SV was 5 grand in pro twin setup,


that had

2001 SV K5 Gixxer 6er fairings Emualtors in front and GSXR750 shock not bad price and reliable as the days and very fast, Alot more top speed than my old 125

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

I want to get into f3 but cant afford much and was thinking a 2stroke might be a good way to do it. do people really spend 30k in f3. I cant afford anywhere near that.

probabley best to stick with trackdays then matey, WAY cheaper and just as fun IMHO. Find a cheaper sport and just do track days for a laugh and to improve your riding and for meeting people, cos racing aint a poor mans sport!

[koba]

probabley best to stick with trackdays then matey, WAY cheaper and just as fun IMHO. Find a cheaper sport and just do track days for a laugh and to improve your riding and for meeting people, cos racing aint a poor mans sport!

I race on a reasonably tight budget.
Streetstock!
Cheap and fun.

[lostinflyz]

I race on a reasonably tight budget.
Streetstock!
Cheap and fun.

i race on a tight budget too. A little bitta cash and a whole lotta debt.

but to start out isn't that much. you can pretty much spend as much or little as you like. within reason.

but streetstocks perfect if your worried about money cause theres only so much you can actually dosh out within the regs. just rem to have money for entry fees and petrol and your pretty sorted.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

I race on a reasonably tight budget.
Streetstock!
Cheap and fun.

Ive raced in streetstock as well, but racing is an expensive way to get track time. also factor in crash expenses.

"expensive" is all relative to income, if you dont have a lot of income, then even streetstock racing is expensive. So if you dont have the income, then dont even think of going racing

[koba]

Ive raced in streetstock as well, but racing is an expensive way to get track time. also factor in crash expenses.

"expensive" is all relative to income, if you dont have a lot of income, then even streetstock racing is expensive. So if you dont have the income, then dont even think of going racing

True, except crash expenses are cheap as if you can weld, beuty of an RG150 is steel construction. Unless you totally munt the forks or somthing they are cheap as to repair IF you have the access to the gear and basic welding ability.
I have old waterpipe for my spare clipons.

[scracha]

Fit crashbars...you'll save loads. Budget racing. If you're handy with a spanner (like Koba and OldRoadRacingFart) then you can do it with limited resources. There are a few guys doing post classics that have spent less than a grand on their bikes. If you're not handy and/or want to be competitive then get ready to watch most of your earnt kiwi peso's going towards racing.

[glice]

my SV was 5 grand in pro twin setup,


that had

2001 SV K5 Gixxer 6er fairings Emualtors in front and GSXR750 shock not bad price and reliable as the days and very fast, Alot more top speed than my old 125

cricky, I could afford 5g. thats what I was wanting to get untill I heard 30g, thats more like it.

[glice]

probabley best to stick with trackdays then matey, WAY cheaper and just as fun IMHO. Find a cheaper sport and just do track days for a laugh and to improve your riding and for meeting people, cos racing aint a poor mans sport!

yea, but I really want to give racing a go. and I was talking about 30 grand being off putting, I think I can afford to do it on the cheap and still have some fun.

[svr]

yea, but I really want to give racing a go. and I was talking about 30 grand being off putting, I think I can afford to do it on the cheap and still have some fun.

Go racing!- there are people doing trackdays that spend a lot more than the average club racer. As a racer you'll do fewer laps, but racing makes riding around feel lame by comparison.

[lostinflyz]

yea, but I really want to give racing a go. and I was talking about 30 grand being off putting, I think I can afford to do it on the cheap and still have some fun.

im a student and i can afford to go racing. OK nearly afford. But its not that expensive and id spend every penny i have so far to go racing. You can spend as much or little as you like.

IT DOES NOT cost 30grand. Thats to be at the front come nationals time(give or take as much as 10grand from that). But you first have to be a fucking good racer and like any sport that takes time, practice and experience.

I got my first race bike (VFR400) for 1700 and spent a bit (say a grand once tyres and forks had been sorted, not counting paddock stands). My new race bike was 5 but that included stands, warmers, genrator and heaps of spares. My mate spent about mid 2 grand on a nicely setup GSXR thats really been a great bike. Thats an idea for price of normal 400 f3 race bike.

Best advice is to find something setup and just get racing rather than spend 6 months figuring out the 12 million problems in a cheap road bike. Wish someone drilled that into me

There isnt much of a price difference between racing and trackdays really. and theres usually alot more racing. and its racing. and racing is good, very good.

[glice]

im a student and i can afford to go racing. OK nearly afford. But its not that expensive and id spend every penny i have so far to go racing. You can spend as much or little as you like.

IT DOES NOT cost 30grand. Thats to be at the front come nationals time(give or take as much as 10grand from that). But you first have to be a fucking good racer and like any sport that takes time, practice and experience.

I got my first race bike (VFR400) for 1700 and spent a bit (say a grand once tyres and forks had been sorted, not counting paddock stands). My new race bike was 5 but that included stands, warmers, genrator and heaps of spares. My mate spent about mid 2 grand on a nicely setup GSXR thats really been a great bike. Thats an idea for price of normal 400 f3 race bike.

Best advice is to find something setup and just get racing rather than spend 6 months figuring out the 12 million problems in a cheap road bike. Wish someone drilled that into me

There isnt much of a price difference between racing and trackdays really. and theres usually alot more racing. and its racing. and racing is good, very good.

I'm just having a break from uni, so I figure now is a good time to get the expensive stuff like a bike out of the way while I can.
yea already set up sounds like the way to go, I'm just having trouble finding one that I can afford and isnt too far away. How much has been done to your 400?

[glice]

Go racing!- there are people doing trackdays that spend a lot more than the average club racer. As a racer you'll do fewer laps, but racing makes riding around feel lame by comparison.

heck yea, I've made up my mind. I'm going racing.

[lostinflyz]

I'm just having a break from uni, so I figure now is a good time to get the expensive stuff like a bike out of the way while I can.
yea already set up sounds like the way to go, I'm just having trouble finding one that I can afford and isnt too far away. How much has been done to your 400?

too far away isn't usually too much of a problem, whats it about 500 odd bucks to ship a bike from chch to auckland. and in my experience its not really a good time to find a bike. most winter racing is still going or summer is starting to ramp up. Just gotta keep an eye out.

my good 400 has had heaps done to it. the guy previous really put in some nice effort and made custom every thing for it (rear set, triple clamps, mounts, exhaust, fairings) and the lot, and the engine pumps a nice health 65bhp. I got a mean as deal on it i reckon. but most 400's are relatively standard (not a bad thing, as when you bin it you know what your looking for, and dont have to make new bits days on end) but usually have exhaust and a bitta tuning and maybe some suspension work.

either way just keep hunting. you never know when a good one might come up

[TonyB]

Definitely try and get a sorted race bike, rather than buy a road bike and try to sort it out. I speak from experience here.
Most race bikes sell for significantly less than it cost to build them.

[lostinflyz]

Definitely try and get a sorted race bike, rather than buy a road bike and try to sort it out. I speak from experience here.
Most race bikes sell for significantly less than it cost to build them.

yea what he says. ive got one im gonna sell soon that i built from the road and ive spent mountains on it and im only gonna sell it for a few hundred more than i bought it for. 400 race bikes arent worth alot cause they are too expensive to convert back to the road but too slow to beat old SV's

[gav]

yea what he says. ive got one im gonna sell soon that i built from the road and ive spent mountains on it and im only gonna sell it for a few hundred more than i bought it for. 400 race bikes arent worth alot cause they are too expensive to convert back to the road but too slow to beat old SV's
Was that your bloody rowdy v4 at Levels on Saturday? :headbang:
You get the big stick waved at you? :lol:

[lostinflyz]

Was that your bloody rowdy v4 at Levels on Saturday? :headbang:
You get the big stick waved at you? :lol:

rowdy v4? meeee?? nooooooo.
I heard nothing. just a constant buzzing noise.

yea was blowing 97db during practice. guess ill shut it up a wee bit now. stupid man and his damn sound meter.

Not the loudest thing there though. That white RGV was blowing 96 and one of the superbikes was blasting over 100db. yee haw.

[glice]

too far away isn't usually too much of a problem, whats it about 500 odd bucks to ship a bike from chch to auckland. and in my experience its not really a good time to find a bike. most winter racing is still going or summer is starting to ramp up. Just gotta keep an eye out.

my good 400 has had heaps done to it. the guy previous really put in some nice effort and made custom every thing for it (rear set, triple clamps, mounts, exhaust, fairings) and the lot, and the engine pumps a nice health 65bhp. I got a mean as deal on it i reckon. but most 400's are relatively standard (not a bad thing, as when you bin it you know what your looking for, and dont have to make new bits days on end) but usually have exhaust and a bitta tuning and maybe some suspension work.

either way just keep hunting. you never know when a good one might come up

yea I know its not too much to ship a bike, I'm just worried about getting ripped off and having some heap of crap turn up.
yea I've been hunting and hunting. at least the longer it takes to find a bike the more money I can save.
Yea race ready is what I want, but what about a road one that already has things like exhaust etc done to it and just need lights taken off and some race fairings put on? (which I think I can make myself)

[lostinflyz]

Yea race ready is what I want, but what about a road one that already has things like exhaust etc done to it and just need lights taken off and some race fairings put on? (which I think I can make myself)

what ever you do DONT do that. that was my thinking. 1700 quid for one in not too bad knick with fairings done. just needs a few things done. about 2 grand later its nearly sorted.

In the end you need tyres just about always but a road bike is more than likely (i.e. 98% chance) gonna need a new rear shock (or a rebuild at least) and the front end stripped and rebuilt (more than likely resurfaced). then itll prob need a tune and the lot. plus stands and the hassle of changing out bobs and bits (drilling sump plug ect.). fairings could be a pain to, dunno.

If its good for the road then its worth to much to turn to a race bike (my old NC21 is worth over 2 grand. as a race bike id be lucky to get even half that). If its too crappy for the road itll take to long and too much money to sort out.

Ill be happy to have a look at something down here for you if you like if it ever comes up. i'd offer you the one i've been doing but its not quite there yet. but maybe soon.

[Ivan]

cricky, I could afford 5g. thats what I was wanting to get untill I heard 30g, thats more like it.

yeah man they easy score,
Honestly pro twins is a great class i have been involved in 125GP for the last 3 seasons and its been stress on racing keeping an eye on engine temps etc jetting the pro twin I honestly gas up and ride theres no expense to it of course theres a cost to everything but man if you wanna do it then do it dont let people tell you not to...
If you wanna do something then aim for it and achieve

You want cheap then pro twin or streetstock is good.

And man you honestly couldnt spend 30k on a Pro Twin 650 your not aloud to do anything to em maybe an F3 spec engien and frame and wheels and brakes blah blah but the standered SV is great

Nice Power but not to rough at hitting it easy to ride andreally really forgiving

[gav]

rowdy v4? meeee?? nooooooo.
I heard nothing. just a constant buzzing noise.

yea was blowing 97db during practice. guess ill shut it up a wee bit now. stupid man and his damn sound meter.

Not the loudest thing there though. That white RGV was blowing 96 and one of the superbikes was blasting over 100db. yee haw.
Yeah there was an Aprilia RS250 that sounded the loudest too, #32 I think?

[Wingnut]

rowdy v4? meeee?? nooooooo.
I heard nothing. just a constant buzzing noise.

yea was blowing 97db during practice. guess ill shut it up a wee bit now. stupid man and his damn sound meter.

Not the loudest thing there though. That white RGV was blowing 96 and one of the superbikes was blasting over 100db. yee haw.

Is your VFR the white one? That was pretty damn loud man. Was some good racing to watch all the same!

[lostinflyz]

Is your VFR the white one? That was pretty damn loud man. Was some good racing to watch all the same!

ummm no.

yea i know its loud, but i just love it.

either way time i pack the mufflers to take the edge off it. The only prob with it is in the pits its loud, too loud i agree. thinking about putting new cans on it but doubt itll make a single iota's difference.

[gav]

Well, warming it up for at least 10 minutes in the pits was probably a little uncalled for! :whistle:
You were lucky I didnt come over and silence it for you. :calm:
J/K I was in the van next door, racing the FXR in the 150's.
Sounded good, use to have a few V4 'onda's me self. :msn-wink:

[lostinflyz]

Well, warming it up for at least 10 minutes in the pits was probably a little uncalled for! :whistle:
You were lucky I didnt come over and silence it for you. :calm:
J/K I was in the van next door, racing the FXR in the 150's.
Sounded good, use to have a few V4 'onda's me self. :msn-wink:

haha i would usually agree but its been throwing plugs lately and gets very very grumpy if it doesnt get a nice long warm up. Ive got it sorted now but i wanted to be sure as saturday was the first day it ever got to the track and actually ran first click (first practice ever, its quite strange)

Im tempted to make some deflectors for it for warming up so it isn't so stupidly annoying and loud in the pits. why cant everyone else jsut have an obnoxiously loud bike.

i get all self concious when everyones looking at me :confused:

[glice]

what ever you do DONT do that. that was my thinking. 1700 quid for one in not too bad knick with fairings done. just needs a few things done. about 2 grand later its nearly sorted.

In the end you need tyres just about always but a road bike is more than likely (i.e. 98% chance) gonna need a new rear shock (or a rebuild at least) and the front end stripped and rebuilt (more than likely resurfaced). then itll prob need a tune and the lot. plus stands and the hassle of changing out bobs and bits (drilling sump plug ect.). fairings could be a pain to, dunno.

If its good for the road then its worth to much to turn to a race bike (my old NC21 is worth over 2 grand. as a race bike id be lucky to get even half that). If its too crappy for the road itll take to long and too much money to sort out.

Ill be happy to have a look at something down here for you if you like if it ever comes up. i'd offer you the one i've been doing but its not quite there yet. but maybe soon.

sweet, I'll deffintly go for a race ready bike in that case. that sounds good, what area are you in?

[Buckets4Me]

I have a cb125 single bucket racer f4 bike for $250 :2guns:


keep you away from them expensive guys :jerry:

<_<

[Cleve]

I guess the NEW answer to this question is a CBR600RR with an Ozzy 3 cyclinder jobbie...