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AlBundy
2nd September 2008, 21:48
I was reading about the ride up the snow the other day... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=79468

How have you guys down South managed with your rides? Do you guys venture out or wait for the roads to thaw?

What sort of riding style do you use to stay upright? More trail/moto-x style?







PS: We are trying to get a section for motards going...

Gav has suggested it goes into a sub section of Competitive Riding, similar to buckets and stunting....

PPS: We have a thread in Site Stuff for support... PLEASE pop in and put your name down.

AlBundy
2nd September 2008, 22:37
I'd imagine this would be better for control?

GaZBur
2nd September 2008, 22:45
...How have you guys down South managed with your rides? Do you guys venture out or wait for the roads to thaw?

PPS: We have a thread in Site Stuff for support...

I have raced at Silverstream last winter where we had to wait while the industrial heater strapped onto the back of a ute thawed a line through one corner that wouldn't de-ice. We raced but there was only one line through that particular corner. This winter its mostly been wet - not much ice this year.

AlBundy
2nd September 2008, 23:13
I take it you use the motard style? A bit easier to catch and control slides etc?

Crasherfromwayback
2nd September 2008, 23:14
I'd imagine this would be better for control?

Mate...if you want to get good at sideways action ride in the sand!

It's been said here before that flat track action is the way to go...and while I don't doubt that, it's hard to do such an activity here in NZ.

So gear your dirt bike up for 100mph...go as hard as you dare towards a stick you've placed in the sand...then snick it down a gear (no brakes needed) and chuck it sideways!!!

The bike will scrub off the speed you need pushing the sand...and it's the best way to understand how a bike slides. Trust me. Then you'll become fucking handy in the wet too.

AlBundy
2nd September 2008, 23:28
Worth thinking about...

Do you control the rate of slide with some front brake at all? You know, like when you lock a pushies back wheel up?

Crasherfromwayback
2nd September 2008, 23:33
Worth thinking about...

Do you control the rate of slide with some front brake at all? You know, like when you lock a pushies back wheel up?

No mate...all done with the angle of lean and the throttle. I'll get you a clearer pic if you want! Give me your email addy!

thehollowmen
3rd September 2008, 00:30
I loved riding in the snow, great fun. Yes, take it slow and smooth, and be ready to be kicking it out motard style.
Supersports are very difficult to do this on, but my DL650 was a good one for it, as was the GN250

Devil
3rd September 2008, 08:11
I'd imagine this would be better for control?

Can someone help me out here? This is what i'm trying to get my head around. I have constantly running through my head the whole lean vs grip thing, which is why I ride mine like a road bike, but I love the whole motard riding style and would like to do more of it. Obviously it's ok to lean the bike like that while sitting upright, but I'm allergic to arsing off.

Do I just need to get my head around it? Do you really still have a lot of grip sitting up and just throwing the bike on it's side?

*eyes up the accessory footpeg sliders for the KTM*...

AlBundy
3rd September 2008, 10:57
Well, the little bit that I've done, motard style, certainly gives heaps more control when the roads are dodgey.
One only has to watch a few motard races and see how quick they go in the gravel, to see there must be something in the style for it to work.

The way I see it (and it could be totally wrong), the way the forces are transmitted to the tyres, are totally different. If you sit on top of the bike, weighting the outside peg, you are kind of pushing the tyres down. Also, since you are on top of the bike, the cog is higher, which reduces the centrifugal forces acting on the tyres at the contact patch.
In a road style, since the cog is a lot lower and to the inside, the centrifugal force acting on the tyre contact patch is more.

That's the way I've looked at it. It may be flawed. Certainly, to me it explains why you see so many motards dragging pegs.
Having said that, pushing the bike down will cause pegs to drag, lol...

Another observation, from riding... As a rider, you are actually leaning less, which maybe sub-consciously, get transferred into a sense of less speed. Also, since you are not 'into' the corner as much, you have better vission around the corner, specially on tight and twisty roads. It's hard to explain.

AlBundy
3rd September 2008, 11:07
I loved riding in the snow, great fun. Yes, take it slow and smooth, and be ready to be kicking it out motard style.
Supersports are very difficult to do this on, but my DL650 was a good one for it, as was the GN250


That's pretty keen on a GN...

But, suppose you can play on anything, lol...

AlBundy
3rd September 2008, 14:19
Another pic for Devil...

Another thing to do... Keep your elbows up....

Devil
3rd September 2008, 14:25
Blardy hell. Heh.

So let me get this right.
1) Right forward on the seat.
2) Keep arse planted.
... do you want to pull your weight forward at all, ie. lean in?
3) Keep head up, push bike down into corner and get on the gas asap for stability. Weight outside peg...

AlBundy
3rd September 2008, 14:36
Just keep your arm relaxed. I don't pull myself in.

Keep in mind, you're kind of pushing the bike down, so you won't be pulling yourself forward.

By sitting upright and having the bike under you, when it moves around, it's more a sideways motion in your hips, opposed to in line with your spine... So it doesn't feel as bad, lol...
A totally different feel for sure...

I'm only new at this but that's what works for me and what feels right. I haven't ridden a motard on a track, so until proper racers arrive, it's the best I can say.

Maybe Crasher can add something later on. He's got a lot of good advice.

Goblin
3rd September 2008, 20:55
This pic demonstrates different styles.
From what I can tell, the guys who are predominately road riders tend to hang off, while the ones who have mostly been motoX/trail riders, sit more on top of the bike with the foot out, backin it in styles.

I guess it's just a matter of getting out there and developing your own technique.

Quasievil
3rd September 2008, 22:20
Hiya dude, this might interest you, its on Sportsbike, download the pdf for how to back it in, very interesting.
http://sportsbike.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=1674&highlight=backing

AlBundy
4th September 2008, 04:28
This pic demonstrates different styles.
From what I can tell, the guys who are predominately road riders tend to hang off, while the ones who have mostly been motoX/trail riders, sit more on top of the bike with the foot out, backin it in styles.

I guess it's just a matter of getting out there and developing your own technique.


Thanks for the pic.

Couldn't have found a better example of the two styles if I tried...


Hiya dude, this might interest you, its on Sportsbike, download the pdf for how to back it in, very interesting.
http://sportsbike.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=1674&highlight=backing

Thanks... Seen that and taken on board for future reference...

NordieBoy
4th September 2008, 08:01
If you're on top of the bike in the corner you have more control if/when it slips/grips suddenly. You've also got better sight lines up higher.

If you're hanging off the side and get a slip-grip it's probably highside terrortory.
On top of the bike it's less likely to have as painfull results.

Hanging off also takes more strength/effort changing direction than sitting up too.
How many 1 armed knee draggers do you see racing?

AlBundy
4th September 2008, 12:33
If you're on top of the bike in the corner you have more control if/when it slips/grips suddenly. You've also got better sight lines up higher.

If you're hanging off the side and get a slip-grip it's probably highside terrortory.
On top of the bike it's less likely to have as painfull results.

Hanging off also takes more strength/effort changing direction than sitting up too.
How many 1 armed knee draggers do you see racing?

I've heard of a few incidents with sticking your foot out the front, vs just vertical along the side of the bike... Mostly when the front let go mid-corner... The bars do can hurt/damage the knee as it washes out... Luck of the draw maybe?

A few pics... And a classic for Nordie, Crasher etc...

NordieBoy
4th September 2008, 16:52
A few more pics from over the years.

http://fran.nelson.geek.nz/motorbikes/motard/

vroom
5th September 2008, 07:35
We have a specific Supermoto training video for sale by one of the top US riders that's worth watching.

Quasievil
5th September 2008, 09:01
We have a specific Supermoto training video for sale by one of the top US riders that's worth watching.

Name and details on it ?? and how old and how much dude ?

Mikkel
5th September 2008, 12:32
I'd say choosing your style depends on the situation.

I am pretty confident that on a nice surface around a fast sweeping corner the road riding technique will be faster... Quite simply the weight and dynamics of such a turn ought to favour that riding style.

If you're racing it's just as much a fight for position, so if you can come in and block the other guy's line you don't actually have to take a faster liner through the corner.

On dodgy surfaces, or if you intentionally are trying to back it in, staying on top feels as if you have more control that's for sure. Also, the further you lean over the bike the easier it'll be to spin up the rear tyre. I had a bit of fun with that on my way to uni today - slightly damp roads and such :whistle: only a little bit though.

I'd like to throw in my support to crasherfromwayback's statement about riding in the sand. It's easy to spin it up in the sand and you can get a good feel for how the bike behaves when it's not gripping... oh, and it's a lot of fun. Just remember to wash your bike when you get back home, saltwater is nasty. :yes:

AlBundy
5th September 2008, 12:57
I'd say choosing your style depends on the situation.

I am pretty confident that on a nice surface around a fast sweeping corner the road riding technique will be faster... Quite simply the weight and dynamics of such a turn ought to favour that riding style.

If you're racing it's just as much a fight for position, so if you can come in and block the other guy's line you don't actually have to take a faster liner through the corner.

On dodgy surfaces, or if you intentionally are trying to back it in, staying on top feels as if you have more control that's for sure. Also, the further you lean over the bike the easier it'll be to spin up the rear tyre. I had a bit of fun with that on my way to uni today - slightly damp roads and such :whistle: only a little bit though.

I'd like to throw in my support to crasherfromwayback's statement about riding in the sand. It's easy to spin it up in the sand and you can get a good feel for how the bike behaves when it's not gripping... oh, and it's a lot of fun. Just remember to wash your bike when you get back home, saltwater is nasty. :yes:

Yeah.

Suppose it boils down to experimenting and getting away from doing the normal thing... Trying different styles, even though they may be slower. Better than not trying them at all...

I must admit, the road style feels totally alien on the DRZ. It just feels wrong. That said, the roads have been damp and gritty, so the motard style just works...

vroom
7th September 2008, 16:52
Name and details on it ?? and how old and how much dude ?

"Gary Trachy 357 Learn To Ride Supermoto DVD

This is an instructional DVD from AMA Supermoto Pro racer Gary Trachy. Much of his teachings come from his years of experience holding supermoto schools.

Excellent for riders new to Supermoto!"

$39.95 including postage, we also have the latest issue of Supermoto Racer magazine just arrived. ($14.95) Mad Aussi should have copies in Hamilton.

http://supermotoracer.co.nz/

SeppoDave
8th September 2008, 08:52
Is the supermotoracer website down? I can't click on any links.

GaZBur
8th September 2008, 09:45
Is the supermotoracer website down? I can't click on any links.

The images appear to be placeholders for a site still being constructed as the source shows no actual links at all. If the designer is reading this can I suggest getting rid of the ultra tacky 1950's style pin up girl.

vroom
8th September 2008, 21:15
Correct, site is still being worked on as that is just a holding page while it's done. Links will be working tomorrow for online shop.

t3mp0r4ry nzr
10th September 2008, 11:37
I think the thing to remember is that whether to back it in or not depends on the turn, a tight 90 degree turn might neccessitate it to slide it sideways under brakes to turn it, which enables you to get on the gas sooner. A more gradual turn however is best taken with the wheels pointing in the same direction.

its a falicy to back it in for the sake of it just cos thats what SM riders do. sure backing it in will be benficial on go cart tracks where predominantly most of the SM racing takes place cos they are so tight, but on a car/bike circuit backing it in on anything but the most tightest of hairpins will slow you down.

vtec
10th September 2008, 13:26
Yeah totally agree, only back it in on the tight corners. When I was racing 600's Jay Lawrence who was noticeably faster than me used to back it in to hairpins, but I was still pretty good on the brakes, and found the back end of my cbr600 stepping out regularly, and it never felt in danger of causing me to crash.

On supertight circuits and kart circuits, backing it in works really well, cause it gets the bike pointing in the right direction really fast, and you don't need to rely on your front wheel as much. Relying on your front wheel to make tight turns is more likely to cause a lowside especially in a tight lowspeed corner. Motards are unbeatable in tight corners, and their uncanny ability to back it in totally controlled helps that.