LTSA work creation scheme - please assist they need meaningful employment now.

[Tony]

I have discovered a work creation scheme for the LTSA that no longer makes any sense or serves any practical purpose, and seems ridiculous to all concerned. Even senior LTSA staff don't seem to understand the whys of it, and understandably get very frustrated trying to understand/explain it.

Here's how it works

I have had a car drivers license for over 25 years.

I recently obtained a motorcyle learners licence.

As part of this process I had to undergo a basic handling competency test, sit a drivers license theory test, do a sight test, provide updated contact details and pay several fees to the parties concerned. Upon completion of this I was issued with a new drivers license last month on the 18th of July. It has a
nice (in the eye of the beholder sought of way) up to date photo of me on it and has 'New Zealand Driver License' written across the top of it.

And now I am happily puttering around out there on my bike, saving money, gasoline, fossil fuels and the world.

So far ...so good.



However Imagine my surprise when I received an application for a drivers license renewal in the mail just one month later?

So knowing that administration errors can occur, I phoned up LTSA to find out what's happening. They were able to confirm that they had issued me with a new license on the 18th of July 08. But however that since it was 10 years since I had last been issued a previous car license, I now had to obtain another new combined car and bike license just one month later.

The reason I was given was for the need to renew the license is that they needed to:

* update my contact records and my photo - which of course I have just done as part of obtaining a motorcycle learners license.
* comply with the legislation.

To obtain a renewal of my one month old license I now have to go through all the hassle of filling in forms, providing an account statement isued in the previous 12 months from a bank building society, credit union or credit card company, etc, and visit a participating NZ driver licensing application.

...and given that I did this all just a month ago none of this provides any practical value for the LSTA or me... and is just a little absurd and frustrating.

Commonsense suggests that my newly issued license should be valid for 10 years.

One further absurdity is that if I had never had a car license then my newly acquired bike license would be valid for 10 years instead of just one month.

I feel ripped off

I have written to Annette King the Minister of Transport and will be interested in the response.

[Irontusk]

I'd be pretty pissed off and refuse to pay!
USELESS government we have..

[CookMySock]

Tell them you already comply with the act. New license doesn't expire until blahblahblah date. kthx, bye!

Steve

[R6_kid]

Dont do anything more.

If it gets so bad that they want to fine you etc, then take it to court, you'll (quite hopefully) win, then you should be applying for reparation for lost time, and of course for your court fees to be paid by the other party.

Maybe it would be just enough to get some change happening.

[slofox]

They're a bunch or dorks, Tony....:angry:

Last time I renewed my licence they tried to talk me into surrendering my Motorcycle licence......."WTF for?" I asked.......Told the girl to sod off if she expected me to give it up.....asked her if she thought I was too old to hold one? "Oh no, of course not"......."So I'll keep it then!!!!! (and you can shove your head up your arse thanks)"....snortrantraveoink!!!:angry2:

[Fatjim]

Its nobody else's fault but your own.

[Fatjim]

Dont do anything more.

If it gets so bad that they want to fine you etc, then take it to court, you'll (quite hopefully) win, then you should be applying for reparation for lost time, and of course for your court fees to be paid by the other party.

Maybe it would be just enough to get some change happening.

You'd make a great leader. You could send us to war!

[Tony]

Tell them you already comply with the act. New license doesn't expire until blahblahblah date. kthx, bye!

Steve

No I don't comply with the act. I thought initially that the LTSA was mis-understanding the act but I checked and it is very clear.

"(3) The period of validity of a driver licence is not affected by the holder obtaining a driver licence or endorsement of any other class or type."

Reference: http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/1999/0100/latest/DLM281575.html#DLM281575

[scracha]

Shh...it's a government department. They're all like that.

Shh..you're in New Zealand. Now shut up and move along quietly sir.

[Mom]

No I don't comply with the act. I thought initially that the LTSA was mis-understanding the act but I checked and it is very clear.

"(3) The period of validity of a driver licence is not affected by the holder obtaining a driver licence or endorsement of any other class or type."

Reference: http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/1999/0100/latest/DLM281575.html#DLM281575

And isn't that the real kicker here. Surely the cutie behind the desk when you did your whole add a class to your license could have pointed that out to you at the time. Common sense must prevail here, you have a new photo (well a month old) you have just updated all your details and passed the ttheory test again (you dont have to do that to renew) Write a letter to them stating the facts and offer a sensible suggestion, renew using last months updated details. Bound to happen :yes: TUI anyone?

What a crock!

[Tony]

And isn't that the real kicker here. Surely the cutie behind the desk when you did your whole add a class to your license could have pointed that out to you at the time.

Yes but that would be an attempt at customer service and as they only have applicants not customers you are pusing the boundaries. Applicants service anyone? - nup just doesn't sound right.

Actually all joking aside it's not fair to blame front desk LTSA staff members just for following the rules. They are not paid to make decisions and if they did we would probably complain about them.

Legislation is the problem. Someone just wasn't thinking about cost efficency, and productivity when they created this bit of nonsense legislation.

[Mom]

Someone just wasn't thinking about cost efficency, and productivity when they created this bit of nonsense legislation.

See I disagree, they were thinking, and the thinking was all about taking a few more $$ from Tony and his ilk.

They never consider the bigger picture when they make these rules. Mind you I suppose if they did we would complain about the slowness of the process.

:buggerd: :crazy:

[Drum]

Similar story here, but to further complicate things I can't pass their eye exams so I had to get an optometrists certificate for my 6L. Then another for my 6R (six months later). Then another for my 6F (six months later), then another to renew my Class 1 (4 months later).

Yep, that's four eye exams in 16 months!

[Gremlin]

Be very interested to hear what happens with this, as I will probably be in the same boat when I get around to doing more on my car license (only an L so far), but hopoefully not as ridiculous as a 1 month thing... :crazy:

[nodrog]

what is the expiry date on your new licence obtained 1 month ago? and i assume that your new license has both classes on it, ie learner motorcycle and full car (well thats what happened with mine)?

[Gremlin]

what is the expiry date on your new licence obtained 1 month ago? and i assume that your new license has both classes on it, ie learner motorcycle and full car (well thats what happened with mine)?
the addition of classes or change in status of class, regardless of the eye tests and photographs, does not change the expiry date of the license. Time starts from the first time a license is issued, and expiry does not change (with the exception of renewal)

[nodrog]

the addition of classes or change in status of class, regardless of the eye tests and photographs, does not change the expiry date of the license. Time starts from the first time a license is issued, and expiry does not change (with the exception of renewal)

the expiry date on my license changed when i got my new one with my bike license on it.

[Gremlin]

what a pisser... but was it when you got your bike full, or L or R? When I got my car L (after the bike began my license) the expiry didn't change.

Or was your license already expired? :innocent:

[nodrog]

what a pisser... but was it when you got your bike full, or L or R? When I got my car L (after the bike began my license) the expiry didn't change.

Or was your license already expired? :innocent:

i cant remember which one, there has been many bourbons consumed since then, but i know it wasnt already expired.

[captain_andrey]

Its a great system....
I remember when I did my learners for 1 and 6 I did the car and the bike scratchie at the same time. So they had to do 2 eye exams, take 2 photos or their system wouldn't work. After I finished both of them I was told their system could not process both at the same time, there was a minimun of 1 hour waiting between me doing a 1L and 6L because the system has booked me for a 1L test and assumes I am still doing it.

Thanks to the nice lady at the counter. She let me go and said she will file the 2nd form in an hour.

I asked if I will get 1 or 2 licenses and when they are going to come. She said the system will decide that... if they get processed on the same day I might only receive one with both 1 and 6. If they get processes on different day, I will get one class first and then both classes on next one. Sure enough, got my 1L and then a day later 1L 6L

[bungbung]

That's a quality system right there

[Gremlin]

That's a quality system right there
agreed... if I designed networks like that, I wouldn't be in a job :rolleyes:

man, I need a job in a government department, seems like they pay plenty, and don't expect much service :clap:

[firefighter]

Why don't you just ignore it for 6 months, and renew it when you sit your restricted?.....easy solution really......

[mouldy]

Lazy
Thick
Stupid
Arseholes

[Tony]

what is the expiry date on your new licence obtained 1 month ago? and i assume that your new license has both classes on it, ie learner motorcycle and full car (well thats what happened with mine)?

The expiry date written on the back of my new license is this month - I didn't notice this at the time I received it as it never occurred to me to check it.

[Tony]

Why don't you just ignore it for 6 months, and renew it when you sit your restricted?.....easy solution really......

Because I would be driving/riding without a car or bike license for 5 months and I am sure this would also invalidate my insurance.

[Tony]

I have discovered a work creation scheme for the LTSA that no longer makes any sense or serves any practical purpose, and seems ridiculous to all concerned. Even senior LTSA staff don't seem to understand the whys of it, and understandably get very frustrated trying to understand/explain it.

I have written to Annette King the Minister of Transport and will be interested in the response.

I got a reply from the email I sent to Annette King.

Wait for it...

Here it comes...

"Dear Tony (alias)

On behalf of Hon Annette King, Minister of Transport, thank you for your
email dated 28 August 2008 concerning your recently obtained learner
motorcycle licence, and the expiry of your drivers licence.

Your email has been referred to Hon Harry Duynhoven, Minister for Transport
Safety, for direct reply as the issue you raise falls within his portfolio.

You will receive a personal reply from Minister Duynhoven in due course.

In the meantime, may I please have your postal address, so that his reply
can be posted to you?

Thank you for writing.

Anya Zohrab
Private Secretary - Transport
Office of Hon Annette King

Ph: 04 471 9140
Cell: 021 580 198
Fax: 04 495 8445"


Great news! I can't wait to get a repsonse from Minister Duynhoven. I assume he will agree that their procedures are a rediculous waste of money and that he will direct commonsense to prevail.

[Irontusk]

I just checked my licence, it seems like it was renewed when I got my 1F (January last year) but like you, not renewed when I got my 6L about a month ago. Wtf eh.. nearly worth spacing my restricted and full licence tests out :wacko:

Really is a stupid STUPID system. I'd expect you either won't get a letter, or it will just tell you "They're the rules, pay up, cause the rules say so, don't question them."

[Gremlin]

Great news! I can't wait to get a repsonse from Minister Duynhoven. I assume he will agree that their procedures are a rediculous waste of money and that he will direct commonsense to prevail.
:killingme

[tzrmike]

On a similar note, the AA have a great scam going as well. I went to renew my licence a couple of years ago.

Lady behind the desk: "You need proof of address"
Me: "My address is on my licence"
Lady: "Licence is not acceptable as proof of address"
Me: "This is a government issued document, and I had to provide proof of address to get it"
Lady: "Sorry, not acceptable. Do you have an AA card? Because an AA card is acceptable as proof of address."
Me: "Okay, so what proof of address do I have to show you to get my AA card?"
Lady: (Face straight as a die)"None."
Me: "Fuck you" and walked out to see if I could a bill or statement with my address on it, which I did. Fuck you AA.

[FastBikeGear]

On a similar note, the AA have a great scam going as well. I went to renew my licence a couple of years ago.

Lady behind the desk: "You need proof of address"
Me: "My address is on my licence"
Lady: "Licence is not acceptable as proof of address"
Me: "This is a government issued document, and I had to provide proof of address to get it"
Lady: "Sorry, not acceptable. Do you have an AA card? Because an AA card is acceptable as proof of address."Me: "Okay, so what proof of address do I have to show you to get my AA card?"
Lady: (Face straight as a die)"None."
Me: "Fuck you" and walked out to see if I could a bill or statement with my address on it, which I did. Fuck you AA.

Yep I love the LTSA's security procedures. Here's another fun example.

When you add a new grade of license you must surrender your old license. They won't let you cut this in half before you surrender it. It is acceptable as photo ID by many organisations except the LTSA and AA (as above). So if the AA receptionist you hand this to has had a bad weekend at the Casino anything is possible from this point in.

Governemt agencies who you entrust with your information often entrust and share your info with other agencies who unlike bank staff have little knowledge or training on identity security.

[firefighter]

Because I would be driving/riding without a car or bike license for 5 months and I am sure this would also invalidate my insurance.

naaaah, just say you didn't recieve any letter, and you can blatantly prove you have a pretty much brand new one, you wouldn't get a ticket/ nor would the insurance company question your licence when you show it to them, they wouldn't even know it had expired. (the mrs made a claim recently and they didn't even look at hers as they'd seen it when they issued the insurance) besides, your new licence won't expire for a while, they'll look at it and be none the wiser.....

[DougieNZ]

You may have to change your acronym's

LTSA hasn't existed for years

LTNZ replaced them

and now they are are called NZTA

New Zealand Transport Agency (a merger of Transit and LTNZ)

[Irontusk]

besides, your new licence won't expire for a while, they'll look at it and be none the wiser.....

The expiry on the new licence is the same as the old, that's what this whole problem is about.

[Swoop]

the expiry date on my license changed when i got my new one with my bike license on it.
Perhaps the overlap of dates happened.
:more detail: Remember that licences are supposed to fall on 5 or 10 year anniversary's of your birthday.
Some of us surrendered our "lifetime licence" and were only issued a 2yr licence, so that renewals would then fall onto the 5/10 system.

[Max Preload]

Great news! I can't wait to get a repsonse from Minister Duynhoven. I assume he will agree that their procedures are a rediculous waste of money and that he will direct commonsense to prevail.

That crazy Dutch bast'd won't lift a finger.


You may have to change your acronym's

LTSA hasn't existed for years

LTNZ replaced them

and now they are are called NZTA

New Zealand Transport Agency (a merger of Transit and LTNZ)

Speaking of jobs, it's a fulltime one just keeping up with the name changes of these inept government departments. I was aware of the change to LTNZ, while there's no website of that name (http://www.ltnz.govt.nz) just the old http://www.ltsa.govt.nz and http://www.landtransport.govt.nz, but when did the latest change take place?

[firefighter]

The expiry on the new licence is the same as the old, that's what this whole problem is about.

oh..............

[Tony]

You may have to change your acronym's

LTSA hasn't existed for years

LTNZ replaced them

and now they are are called NZTA

New Zealand Transport Agency (a merger of Transit and LTNZ)

Whups your absolutely right but http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/ (http://www.ltsa.govt.nz) works but someone stole the server that was hosting www.ltnz.govt.nz (http://www.ltnz.govt.nz)

[Sanx]

That pathetically-stupid, terminally obtuse, bureaucracy-obsessed bearded Dutch fat fucker with an over-inflated view of his own importance won't lift a finger.

Just changed your post a little. Hope you don't mind.

[Max Preload]

Just changed your post a little. Hope you don't mind.

That's what I meant to write, but my keyboard was playing up :rofl:

[DougieNZ]

Whups your absolutely right but http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/ (http://www.ltsa.govt.nz) works but someone stole the server that was hosting www.ltnz.govt.nz (http://www.ltnz.govt.nz)

Yeah, you are right... silly stuff I agree.

When LTSA changed to LTNZ, the web address stayed the same ltsa.govt.nz

A bit silly when you want people to accept/understand that the name has changed.

The new site is www.nzta.org.nz (http://www.nzta.govt.nz)

I would imagine that all the LTSA/LTNZ/Transit NZ stuff will eventually merge in to that site. NZTA started 1/8/08

Cheers

[Tony]

I got a reply from the email I sent to Annette King.

Wait for it...

Here it comes...

"Dear Tony (alias)

On behalf of Hon Annette King, Minister of Transport, thank you for your
email dated 28 August 2008 concerning your recently obtained learner
motorcycle licence, and the expiry of your drivers licence.

Your email has been referred to Hon Harry Duynhoven, Minister for Transport
Safety, for direct reply as the issue you raise falls within his portfolio.

You will receive a personal reply from Minister Duynhoven in due course.

In the meantime, may I please have your postal address, so that his reply
can be posted to you?

Thank you for writing.

Anya Zohrab
Private Secretary - Transport
Office of Hon Annette King

Ph: 04 471 9140
Cell: 021 580 198
Fax: 04 495 8445"


Great news! I can't wait to get a repsonse from Minister Duynhoven. I assume he will agree that their procedures are a rediculous waste of money and that he will direct commonsense to prevail.


And I have now received the long awaited response from Duynhoven's office...and here it is..

Dear Mr XXXX

On behalf of the Hon Harry Duynhoven, Minister for Transport Safety, thank
you for your further email of 18 September to Hon Annette King, Minister of
Transport.

You will receive a personal reply from the Minister as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely

Tania Ditchburn
Private Secretary - Transport Safety
Office of Hon Harry Duynhoven
Minister for Transport Safety

Ph: (04) 471 9856
Fax: (04) 472 8052


It's like that TV programme 'Lost' I can't wait until the final installment.

[Tony]

When you add a new grade of license you must surrender your old license. They won't let you cut this in half before you surrender it. It is acceptable as photo ID by many organisations except the LTSA and AA (as above). So if the AA receptionist you hand this to has had a bad weekend at the Casino anything is possible from this point in.


I finally bit the bullet and went and paid to renew my one month old license. Sure enough they asked me to hand over my old license. However the guy behind the counter at AA Westgate agreed to cut it in half - he kept the half with all the details on it and passed me the half with my photo on it. It seemed like that this was a familiar request to him. As always it seems it's evident that it depends on who you strike on just how they interpret their rules.

[Blossom]

So how much did the bloodsuckers sting ya for the renewal and how long is it valid for?

They suck.

[motorbike]

Similar story here, but to further complicate things I can't pass their eye exams so I had to get an optometrists certificate for my 6L. Then another for my 6R (six months later). Then another for my 6F (six months later), then another to renew my Class 1 (4 months later).

Yep, that's four eye exams in 16 months!

i had to do the same thing, but it was like 4 in a month for a trucking course,
now i just say "FUCK IT" and cheat ,close one eye and read it

it even says on the form you fill out you dont need to supply one if you did so in the last 5 years WTF is going on

[Tony]

Well I have to admitt I am gob smacked. I acutally got a reply to the email I sent on this issue from the Hon Harry Duynhoven (Minister for Transport Safety) .

Here's the key bits.


"Thank you for you email of 28 August 2008...

...I am aware of the situation you have written about. Unfortunatelty a change in law will be needed to address it. A proposal to overcome this problem is included in the Land Transport (Driver Licensing) Amendment Rule (the Rule). which is currently being prepared by transport officials, for public consultation. The proposed change to the Rule is that where an application for a new class of driver license meets all of the reqluirements for renewal, it will be renewed when that application is processsed. This will also apply to endorsement to licenses....

...I trust this information reassures you that the matter is being addressed, and that the renewal process will be improved in due course.

Thank you for taking the time to write to me about this situation

Yours sincerely
Hon Harry Duynhoven
Minister for Transport Safety"

All I can say is that I am pleasantly surprised and impressed.

[Tony]

I finally bit the bullet and went and paid to renew my one month old license. Sure enough they asked me to hand over my old license. However the guy behind the counter at AA Westgate agreed to cut it in half - he kept the half with all the details on it and passed me the half with my photo on it. It seemed like that this was a familiar request to him. As always it seems it's evident that it depends on who you strike on just how they interpret their rules.

I did some further research on this and they do have the legislation to support the need to surrender your old license (ref section 30, Clause 4(a), Land Transport Act 1998). The move to get you to hand over your old license was possibly done due to a request from retailers who wanted to be able to use the drivers license as photo ID and didn't want old licenses passed on to younger siblings etc. We are getting dangerously close to a situation where the LTSA is endorsing a policy that requires us to carry photo ID. However there appears to be no supporting legislation that requires you to hand over your old licenses.

Maybe someone can advise if I am missing something here?

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/1999/0100/latest/DLM280562.html