Öhlins electronic suspension comes to WSBK Yamahas

[Cajun]

In a development that could possibly be significant for future Yamaha street bikes, Yamaha Motor Italia riders Noriyuki Haga and Troy Corser will run full electronic suspension on their R1s, during the Donington Park round of the World Superbike Championship this weekend.

Haga and Corser will run Öhlins electronic suspension units, with electronic damping control. These units have already been tested earlier at Vallelunga, where they are said to have performed very well. However, Donington Park is the first time this suspension will be used in an actual race.

‘We are expecting that we can do better with this suspension than the conventional set-up. It should assist Troy in particular, as he tested this system at Vallelunga and he was very happy with it. It should be good at some braking points at Donington, where we should really find an improvement with this type of system. We will run one bike for each rider on normal suspension and one with the new electronic system,’ says Yamaha Motor Italia team manager Massimo Meregalli.

‘Right now I am looking to Donington to get my first win for Yamaha – that's my aim this weekend. We will be using Öhlins electronic suspension and I think it will be most useful for bump absorption,’ says Corser.

Now we hope Corser and Haga do really well with the new electronic suspension, and that the team continues to use the super-trick Öhlins units for future races as well. And that’s because then this electronic suspension – or at least something that’s based on it – could possibly find its way to the road-going Yamaha R1s that we can buy. Öhlins electronic suspension on the 2010 Yamaha R1 SP?

Taken from http://www.fasterandfaster.net/2008/09/hlins-electronic-suspension-comes-to.html

Interesting electronic suspension, i remember reading something while ago from robert i think about this, it finally coming to a race track.

[Maido]

I wonder if this is used in conjunction with GPS or if it is like the early traction control where the rider had to select modes by a switch on the bars?
I imagine that this will be quite revolutionary it it works.

[slimjim]

huummm wonder if kit for upgrade

[Robert Taylor]

I wonder if this is used in conjunction with GPS or if it is like the early traction control where the rider had to select modes by a switch on the bars?
I imagine that this will be quite revolutionary it it works.

I would expect that there will be teething problems and if they get it right on its debut I will be very surprised. But the potential is enormous for improved brake dive control, bump absorption and sidegrip etc etc. As you lean over further and further the suspension effectively becomes stiffer and stiffer, the deflecting influences are still ''upright'' but the suspension is more and more obtuse to it. A lean angle sensor feeds the bank angle to the computer which then instructs a stepper motor to soften the suspension. That equals more sidegrip. It will also liberate tyre design further.
With bumps it calculates shock shaft speed early in its travel and adjusts accordingly. As this is something that will eventually make it to production I dont expect it will be GPS based as you would need data on every racetrack ( and road ) on the planet!
When it makes it to production ( very much do not hold your breath, this has not even made it to MotoGp yet ) it will be a self regulating system. The price will also have to be affordable which in this day and age of consumer electronics is attainable.
So the future is very exciting, pity that there is a personality within MNZ on a personal, ill concieved and poorly researched crusade to ban aftermarket suspension in at least one of the premier classes. Given the issues that modern production race bikes place on their suspension and tyres there can be no going back to the past. Im all for progress.

[JJ58]

It's about time that these showed up on bikes... Our four wheeled friends have been using these for some time...... I'm excited, race bikes are about to get a WHOLE lot faster :-)

[Shaun]

As Mr Ohlin's NZ said?

13. Noriyuki HAGA (Yamaha YZF-R1), 1:48.483
23. Troy CORSER (Yamaha YZF-R1), 1:50.930, crashed twice



Guess they will get there though, given more time

[Wingnut]

As Mr Ohlin's NZ said?

13. Noriyuki HAGA (Yamaha YZF-R1), 1:48.483
23. Troy CORSER (Yamaha YZF-R1), 1:50.930, crashed twice



Guess they will get there though, given more time

What times were the other front runners doing in comparison?

[Shaun]

What times were the other front runners doing in comparison?

CO www.crash.net


Comment on this Story
1. Troy Bayliss AUS Ducati Xerox 1098 F08 1min 44.377 secs
2. Ryuichi Kiyonari JPN Hannspree Ten Kate Honda CBR1000RR 1min 44.528 secs
3. Cal Crutchlow GBR HM Plant Honda CBR1000RR 1min 44.627 secs
4. Tom Sykes GBR Rizla Suzuki GSX-R1000 1min 44.682 secs
5. Leon Haslam GBR HM Plant Honda CBR1000RR 1min 44.813 secs
6. Max Biaggi ITA Sterilgarda Go Eleven 1098 RS08 1min 45.384 secs
7. Ruben Xaus SPA Sterilgarda Go Eleven 1098 RS08 1min 45.725 secs
8. Carlos Checa SPA Hannspree Ten Kate Honda CBR1000RR 1min 45.936 secs
9. Gregorio Lavilla SPA Ventaxia VK Honda CBR1000RR 1min 46.044 secs
10. James Ellison GBR Hydrex Bike Animal Honda CBR1000RR 1min 46.392 secs
11. Chris Walker GBR Ventaxia VK Honda CBR1000RR 1min 46.553 secs
12. Troy Corser AUS Yamaha Motor Italia YZF-R1 1min 46.803 secs
13. Kenan Sofuoglu TUR Hannspree Ten Kate Honda CBR1000RR 1min 46.912 secs
14. Jakub Smrz CZE Guandalini Racing by Grifo's 1098 RS08 1min 46.924 secs
15. Michel Fabrizio ITA Ducati Xerox 1098 F08 1min 47.114 secs

16. Fonsi Nieto SPA Alstare Suzuki GSX-R1000 1min 47.344 secs
17. David Checa ESP Yamaha France Ipone GMT 94 YZF-R1 1min 47.624 secs
18. Karl Muggeridge AUS D.F. Racing CBR1000RR 1min 47.778 secs
19. Yukio Kagayama JPN Alstare Suzuki GSX-R1000 1min 47.834 secs
20. Roberto Rolfo ITA Hannspree Honda Althea CBR1000RR 1min 48.031 secs
21. Regis Laconi ITA PSG-1 Kawasaki Corse ZX-10R 1min 48.092 secs
22. Ayrton Badovini ITA Team Pedercini ZX-10R 1min 48.463 secs
23. Max Neukirchner GER Alstare Suzuki GSX-R1000 1min 48.724 secs
24. Noriyuki Haga JPN Yamaha Motor Italia YZF-R1 1min 48.841 secs
25. Lorenzo Lanzi ITA RG Racing 1098 RS08 1min 48.915 secs
26. Sebastien Gimbert FRA Yamaha France Ipone GMT 94 YZF-R1 1min 50.349 secs
27. Shinichi Nakatomi JPN YZF Yamaha YZF-R1 1min 50.454 secs
28. Vittorio Iannuzzo ITA Team Pedercini ZX-10R 1min 51.703 secs
29. Makoto Tamada JPN PSG-1 Kawasaki Corse ZX-10R 1min 52.710 secs
30. Christian Zaiser AUT Grillini PBR Team YZF-R1 1min 53.923 secs
31. Luca Morelli ITA D.F. Racing CBR1000RR 1min 54.032 secs
32. Matt Lynn USA Alto Evolution Honda CBR1000RR 1min 54.910 secs
33. Shuhei Aoyama JPN Alto Evolution Honda CBR1000RR 1min 56.132 secs

ONLY 2.5 SECONDS of the pase

Not bad I guess

[Robert Taylor]

CO www.crash.net


Comment on this Story
1. Troy Bayliss AUS Ducati Xerox 1098 F08 1min 44.377 secs
2. Ryuichi Kiyonari JPN Hannspree Ten Kate Honda CBR1000RR 1min 44.528 secs
3. Cal Crutchlow GBR HM Plant Honda CBR1000RR 1min 44.627 secs
4. Tom Sykes GBR Rizla Suzuki GSX-R1000 1min 44.682 secs
5. Leon Haslam GBR HM Plant Honda CBR1000RR 1min 44.813 secs
6. Max Biaggi ITA Sterilgarda Go Eleven 1098 RS08 1min 45.384 secs
7. Ruben Xaus SPA Sterilgarda Go Eleven 1098 RS08 1min 45.725 secs
8. Carlos Checa SPA Hannspree Ten Kate Honda CBR1000RR 1min 45.936 secs
9. Gregorio Lavilla SPA Ventaxia VK Honda CBR1000RR 1min 46.044 secs
10. James Ellison GBR Hydrex Bike Animal Honda CBR1000RR 1min 46.392 secs
11. Chris Walker GBR Ventaxia VK Honda CBR1000RR 1min 46.553 secs
12. Troy Corser AUS Yamaha Motor Italia YZF-R1 1min 46.803 secs
13. Kenan Sofuoglu TUR Hannspree Ten Kate Honda CBR1000RR 1min 46.912 secs
14. Jakub Smrz CZE Guandalini Racing by Grifo's 1098 RS08 1min 46.924 secs
15. Michel Fabrizio ITA Ducati Xerox 1098 F08 1min 47.114 secs

16. Fonsi Nieto SPA Alstare Suzuki GSX-R1000 1min 47.344 secs
17. David Checa ESP Yamaha France Ipone GMT 94 YZF-R1 1min 47.624 secs
18. Karl Muggeridge AUS D.F. Racing CBR1000RR 1min 47.778 secs
19. Yukio Kagayama JPN Alstare Suzuki GSX-R1000 1min 47.834 secs
20. Roberto Rolfo ITA Hannspree Honda Althea CBR1000RR 1min 48.031 secs
21. Regis Laconi ITA PSG-1 Kawasaki Corse ZX-10R 1min 48.092 secs
22. Ayrton Badovini ITA Team Pedercini ZX-10R 1min 48.463 secs
23. Max Neukirchner GER Alstare Suzuki GSX-R1000 1min 48.724 secs
24. Noriyuki Haga JPN Yamaha Motor Italia YZF-R1 1min 48.841 secs
25. Lorenzo Lanzi ITA RG Racing 1098 RS08 1min 48.915 secs
26. Sebastien Gimbert FRA Yamaha France Ipone GMT 94 YZF-R1 1min 50.349 secs
27. Shinichi Nakatomi JPN YZF Yamaha YZF-R1 1min 50.454 secs
28. Vittorio Iannuzzo ITA Team Pedercini ZX-10R 1min 51.703 secs
29. Makoto Tamada JPN PSG-1 Kawasaki Corse ZX-10R 1min 52.710 secs
30. Christian Zaiser AUT Grillini PBR Team YZF-R1 1min 53.923 secs
31. Luca Morelli ITA D.F. Racing CBR1000RR 1min 54.032 secs
32. Matt Lynn USA Alto Evolution Honda CBR1000RR 1min 54.910 secs
33. Shuhei Aoyama JPN Alto Evolution Honda CBR1000RR 1min 56.132 secs

ONLY 2.5 SECONDS of the pase

Not bad I guess

Well, if nothing else the current times certainly give a strong indication of the very real strength of British Superbike, given the riders in the front group.
New technology quite often has a baptism of fire especially when there are those ready to sieze on any initial shortcomings. I applaud what Ohlins are doing and have every confidence they will chip away and end up with a system and technology that will become an absolute neccessity to be competitive.
You dont go forward by standing still with existing technology, if you have to initially go a couple of steps back to end up going more steps forward then you do it. European companies such as Ohlins and WP are at the forefront of motorcycle shock absorber technology, Ohlins leading MotoGP and WSBK, WP leading 600 Supersport. Add to that works level Showa from Japan, but such equipment is not available to everyday buyers.

[Robert Taylor]

Well, if nothing else the current times certainly give a strong indication of the very real strength of British Superbike, given the riders in the front group.
New technology quite often has a baptism of fire especially when there are those ready to sieze on any initial shortcomings. I applaud what Ohlins are doing and have every confidence they will chip away and end up with a system and technology that will become an absolute neccessity to be competitive.
You dont go forward by standing still with existing technology, if you have to initially go a couple of steps back to end up going more steps forward then you do it. European companies such as Ohlins and WP are at the forefront of motorcycle shock absorber technology, Ohlins leading MotoGP and WSBK, WP leading 600 Supersport. Add to that works level Showa from Japan, but such equipment is not available to everyday buyers.

Actually, in all fairness I initially omitted to mention another technological player that is not so evident on the European road race season, Penske. They are especially a big player in indycar and Nascar etc where they are always in pitch battle with Ohlins. They too have their own clever ideas. My salient point remains the same, if you are not prepared to push forward with new technology you stagnate and go backwards.

[lostinflyz]

wasn't it raining during both practice sessions. And my understanding is donnington is a bit of a dog in the wet. so we shouldnt be too quick to think there pace is an indication of the possibilities or shortcomings.

And i agree with Mr. Taylor - good on ohlins and the yammy boys for giving it a shot. If it wasn't race ready - or pretty close i couldn't see a factory yamaha bolting it up and loooking slow. But maybe its a prep for next year.

[avgas]

wow i wonder if they will even need the riders anymore. I can think of some sexy girls who cant ride but look good on bikes. lets give them a go i say

[roogazza]

Anyone got any hot news on the Ohlins stuff used at Donington over the weekend ? Was it a success ?
Haga seems pissed , Corser crashed a few times and then got a 3rd in the second leg , but it was wet , so no surprise there.
A couple of local hot shoes showed their knowledge and Kio the Ten Kate rider won the second while looking for a place to jump off the whole time, Brave man ! Gaz.

[Cajun]

not seen anything maybe on yamaha wsbk site might have a write up from the rider/team about the weekend

[slimjim]

:whistle: yes update please ....

[Shaun]

THIS IS RUMOUR FROM A FRIEND AT THE RACE ONLY!

Apparently HAGA stuck with the electonic package, and Corser, Returned to the old Known set up they have used in the past (RUMOUR ONLY)

Am sure the sweeds will get it to work seriously anyway, they would not have started racing with it, Unless they believed it was the future

[Robert Taylor]

No rumours, no conjecture, have spoken to the horses mouth ( Ohlins AB Sweden ) The Yamaha team had a number of almost totally preoccupying issues over the Donington weekend that were not suspension related. Yes they did try it but it was not a fair test due to everything else that was going on. The tests were then to be continued at Karlskoga track in Sweden as what they did learn was the concept showed promise.
Having personally been to Karlskoga track I can report that this is a good track to test on as it has a variance in corner approaches and has bumps very similiar to Manfield.
I did not want to be too cheeky in pressing them for too much information than what they volunteered as their engineers are very busy people.

[Shaun]

Hope ya washed your mouth afterwards

[Robert Taylor]

Politeness is usually to ones advantage.

[slimjim]

cool .:yes:.. thanks for updating... shall be most interesting to keep a closer watch..tha

[roogazza]

No rumours, no conjecture, have spoken to the horses mouth ( Ohlins AB Sweden ) The Yamaha team had a number of almost totally preoccupying issues over the Donington weekend that were not suspension related. Yes they did try it but it was not a fair test due to everything else that was going on. The tests were then to be continued at Karlskoga track in Sweden as what they did learn was the concept showed promise.


Thanks for that. Was purely for my personal interest. Gaz.

[Shaun]

Politeness is usually to ones advantage.


Thanks again for being my DAD

[Maido]

While on the topic of yamaha and wsbk....
I see the new R1 has gone to a crossplane type crank, does anyone know if the world supers use this stye of crank already?
Also, show how thinking changes rapidly in high competition, not so long ago the big bang was the only engine to use, now the screamer is making its way back.
I would guess that faster processing speeds (and compact design) would allow greater flexibility on the traction control etc, meaning that engines that were previously prone to wheel spin are now making a comeback.

[Cajun]

While on the topic of yamaha and wsbk....
I see the new R1 has gone to a crossplane type crank, does anyone know if the world supers use this stye of crank already?
Also, show how thinking changes rapidly in high competition, not so long ago the big bang was the only engine to use, now the screamer is making its way back.
I would guess that faster processing speeds (and compact design) would allow greater flexibility on the traction control etc, meaning that engines that were previously prone to wheel spin are now making a comeback.

don't think they be allowed to use this crank yet, would have to wait until bike is in production aka sold 1500 units or something silly like that

[brads]

While on the topic of yamaha and wsbk....
I see the new R1 has gone to a crossplane type crank, does anyone know if the world supers use this stye of crank already?
Also, show how thinking changes rapidly in high competition, not so long ago the big bang was the only engine to use, now the screamer is making its way back.
I would guess that faster processing speeds (and compact design) would allow greater flexibility on the traction control etc, meaning that engines that were previously prone to wheel spin are now making a comeback.

Say what?????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????

[johan]

This was a pretty good article, about traction and firing order:
http://superbikeplanet.com/2007/Dec/071217b.htm

[codgyoleracer]

While on the topic of yamaha and wsbk....
I see the new R1 has gone to a crossplane type crank, does anyone know if the world supers use this stye of crank already?
Also, show how thinking changes rapidly in high competition, not so long ago the big bang was the only engine to use, now the screamer is making its way back.
I would guess that faster processing speeds (and compact design) would allow greater flexibility on the traction control etc, meaning that engines that were previously prone to wheel spin are now making a comeback.


There are a number of impressive specs on the 2009 Yamaha

[wharfy]

This was a pretty good article, about traction and firing order:
http://superbikeplanet.com/2007/Dec/071217b.htm

A very interesting article, and the theory is indeed "counter intuitive" I might have to print it and leave it laying around for some of the geeks here at work to read :)

[imdying]

I would guess that faster processing speeds (and compact design) would allow greater flexibility on the traction control etc, meaning that engines that were previously prone to wheel spin are now making a comeback.Yep, that'd be what I'd put my money on.

Perhaps they'll be able to run more unstable chassis' which are more maneuverable as suspension tech continues?

[Cajun]

Yamaha World Superbike Team Will Race With Ohlins 'Variable Electronic Suspension' For Rest Of 2008 Season
(http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34249)



After taking part in a successful official FGSport test at Vallelunga in July both Troy Corser (Yamaha Motor Italia WSB Team) and Noriyuki Haga (Yamaha Motor Italia WSB Team) will see nothing but opportunities at the final Italian round on the 2008 World Superbike calendar.

Corser, who moved into second place in the championship standings after the previous round at Donington Park, will be out to make up ground on long-term championship leader Troy Bayliss, with three rounds left to run.

Haga secured a podium finish of third for Yamaha in the second race at Vallelunga in the 2007 season and he goes for his fifth race win of 2008 this weekend. Corser finished that same 2007 Vallelunga race immediately behind Haga, and with the improvements made on the YZF-R1 racebike since that competition last year, much is expected from the Yamaha duo this weekend. .....

[Rcktfsh]

Talking of Ohlins, I was wondering if Wobert can confirm the rumour, I just made up, that the Ohlins mobile pixie hutt will be sporting not only new suspension this season but also new sponsor signage from the "NZ Man Boy Love Assn"???

[Robert Taylor]

Talking of Ohlins, I was wondering if Wobert can confirm the rumour, I just made up, that the Ohlins mobile pixie hutt will be sporting not only new suspension this season but also new sponsor signage from the "NZ Man Boy Love Assn"???

My co-worker is as vertically challenged as you but there is nothing pixie-ish about him as his ears dont stick out. Add a pleasantly quiet demeanour. However, he doesnt have that Randy Newman record from the 70s that a whole load of less tall people were very unhappy about.
Yes, we have installed mounting points for an Ohlins shock on each wheel ( true fact ) and the shocks have been made for it. ( And why wouldnt we???!!!! )When we get to the meetings our first job will be a revalve to improve/ optimise further.
Later we will be considering GPS and electronic TTX36 as successfully used by Haga and Corser last night. The doubting Thomas's can put that fact in their pipes and smoke it, and the best is yet to come!
I thought the ''NZ Man Boy Love Assn'' was a sub group within the ( soon to be annihilated ) Labour Governments ranks? That kinda rules us out as we are both bluenose tories and rather proud of it.

[Rcktfsh]

Try a fullface it may help with the nose chill.

[Cajun]

Haga continued to use the new Ohlins electronic rear shock for both Vallelunga races, the system worked well for the Yamaha rider, an improvement on the standard shock.

interesting quote i came across.

[cs363]

My co-worker is as vertically challenged as you but there is nothing pixie-ish about him as his ears dont stick out. Add a pleasantly quiet demeanour. However, he doesnt have that Randy Newman record from the 70s that a whole load of less tall people were very unhappy about.
Yes, we have installed mounting points for an Ohlins shock on each wheel ( true fact ) and the shocks have been made for it. ( And why wouldnt we???!!!! )When we get to the meetings our first job will be a revalve to improve/ optimise further.
Later we will be considering GPS and electronic TTX36 as successfully used by Haga and Corser last night. The doubting Thomas's can put that fact in their pipes and smoke it, and the best is yet to come!
I thought the ''NZ Man Boy Love Assn'' was a sub group within the ( soon to be annihilated ) Labour Governments ranks? That kinda rules us out as we are both bluenose tories and rather proud of it.

I think you'll find that your co-worker towers over Mr Rcktfsh (who by the way, is more of a Goblin (without the characteristic red hair) than a pixie.
But I digress, .........so, you're not denying it's a pixie hut then? :lol:

[cs363]

Haga continued to use the new Ohlins electronic rear shock for both Vallelunga races, the system worked well for the Yamaha rider, an improvement on the standard shock.interesting quote i came across.

Wonder if they mean the standard Yamaha shock or the standard Ohlins?
If they mean the Ohlins then these new fangled electric jobbies must be trick as I assume the 'standard' Ohlins shock Haga would be using would be a TTX which are the bees knobbly bits at present!

[Robert Taylor]

Wonder if they mean the standard Yamaha shock or the standard Ohlins?
If they mean the Ohlins then these new fangled electric jobbies must be trick as I assume the 'standard' Ohlins shock Haga would be using would be a TTX which are the bees knobbly bits at present!

Must be the standard Yamaha shock as they are race developed and fully adjustable. Yeah right....No, Ohlins TTX36 with electronic over-ride according to the ''event'' on the track. BTW Yamaha have 32 different link ratios in their toy box for that bike. Also their team cook does a nice job with his pizzas and Haga is pretty handy with his hire cars.

[roogazza]

Was there a round of Superbikes on Sunday last ? I caught the tail of racing at Vallelunga last night on channel 33 .
Sky mag didn't mention WSB for Sunday ? Have they cocked up ?
or am I having another senior moment ? Gaz.

[Cajun]

Was there a round of Superbikes on Sunday last ? I caught the tail of racing at Vallelunga last night on channel 33 .
Sky mag didn't mention WSB for Sunday ? Have they cocked up ?
or am I having another senior moment ? Gaz.

yes was a round on sunday. check out www.worldsbk.com

was it shown on sky no idea, don't have sky.

[nodrog]

yes was a round on sunday. check out www.worldsbk.com

was it shown on sky no idea, don't have sky.

it sure was shown on sky :niceone:

[Badjelly]

Was there a round of Superbikes on Sunday last ? I caught the tail of racing at Vallelunga last night on channel 33 .
Sky mag didn't mention WSB for Sunday ? Have they cocked up ?
or am I having another senior moment ? Gaz.

The last of these I suspect.

It was in TV Guide, though when I tuned in at the advertised starting time (10:25 pm) the first SBK race was halfway through.

Was it really not in Sky Mag?

[roogazza]

The last of these I suspect.

It was in TV Guide, though when I tuned in at the advertised starting time (10:25 pm) the first SBK race was halfway through.

Was it really not in Sky Mag?

No use me whinging now , but no !! It is listed for Monday the 29th at 7am through to 11am Ch 32 ????? Not bad , only a week late ! Gaz.

[denill]

No use me whinging now , but no !! It is listed for Monday the 29th at 7am through to 11am Ch 32 ????? Not bad , only a week late ! Gaz.

That's bad Gaz. :argh:

FWIW I always confirm using the on-screen guide. Cos there have been last minute changes in the past.

[Cajun]

came across this image

'Yamaha's electronic suspension: Wired for rebound.'

[Robert Taylor]

came across this image

'Yamaha's electronic suspension: Wired for rebound.'

Yes, and the rulemakers in WSBK are somewhat shortsiightedly trying to ban it, thereby halting the march of progress. Ohlins engineers are currently in protracted discussions with them and are somewhat gobsmacked by the mentality of it all.

[Cajun]

Yes, and the rulemakers in WSBK are somewhat shortsiightedly trying to ban it, thereby halting the march of progress. Ohlins engineers are currently in protracted discussions with them and are somewhat gobsmacked by the mentality of it all.

Interesting not come across that bit of information in my reading.

[slowpoke]

Yes, and the rulemakers in WSBK are somewhat shortsiightedly trying to ban it, thereby halting the march of progress. Ohlins engineers are currently in protracted discussions with them and are somewhat gobsmacked by the mentality of it all.

Hmmmm, I dunno Robert. I'm all for progress but it has to be sustainable progress and once the inevitable gains via this technology are realised then you are going to be bringing up the tail of the field unless you have it, and the big bucks to pay for it. I'd hate to have WSBK turn into MotoGP with only a dozen or so bikes on the grid.

At the moment you or I could basically build/test a competitive bike to put Shirriffs, Stroud, 'Poos on to contest the Hampton Downs WSBK race in 2011, but this sort of technology blows that theory out the window.

It's great technology but maybe MotoGP is a better playground for this until costs and the expertise to run it have become more real world?

[Cajun]

maybe they kicking up a stink, mostly due to fact that the yamahs are starting to come on strong, and believe its this new wizz bang dark art, magical electronic springy thingy me jiggys

aka haga winning 3 of the last 4 races, and corser 3rd out of 4 races.

[denill]

Yes, and the rulemakers in WSBK are somewhat shortsiightedly trying to ban it, thereby halting the march of progress. Ohlins engineers are currently in protracted discussions with them and are somewhat gobsmacked by the mentality of it all.

Hey Robert. Can you give any sort of a ball park figure for the cost of the Yamaha/Ohlins setup??

[Cajun]

Hey Robert. Can you give any sort of a ball park figure for the cost of the Yamaha/Ohlins setup??

somewhere in range of first born child i would think,

[GSVR]

Yes, and the rulemakers in WSBK are somewhat shortsiightedly trying to ban it, thereby halting the march of progress. Ohlins engineers are currently in protracted discussions with them and are somewhat gobsmacked by the mentality of it all.

Or possibly the Ohlins engineers are so full of their own self interests they can't see the big picture.

And what decade was active suspension banned in F1?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/3154076/Max-Mosley-issues-stark-warning-over-F1-spending-Formula-One.html

[svr]

Or possibly the Ohlins engineers are so full of their own self interests they can't see the big picture.

And what decade was active suspension banned in F1?

[/url]

Was that to reduce costs or lower corner speeds (like banning ground effects, slicks, etc.)?

[Robert Taylor]

Interesting not come across that bit of information in my reading.

No you wont, it was a conversation that I had with an engineer at the Ohlins factory in Sweden.

[Robert Taylor]

Or possibly the Ohlins engineers are so full of their own self interests they can't see the big picture.

And what decade was active suspension banned in F1?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/3154076/Max-Mosley-issues-stark-warning-over-F1-spending-Formula-One.html

What a contemptible narrow minded post ( frankly ) When Ive had some r and r Ill come back with some realities contrary to your politics of envy.

[cs363]

Or possibly the Ohlins engineers are so full of their own self interests they can't see the big picture.

And what decade was active suspension banned in F1?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/3154076/Max-Mosley-issues-stark-warning-over-F1-spending-Formula-One.html


Surprised you haven't traded your bike on a horse with an attitude like that! :whistle:

Active suspension was banned in F1 on safety grounds and not just because corner speeds were rising due to its use. The systems were hydraulic based and several cars experienced problems with leaking hydraulics ultimately causing high speed crashes, the highly publicised crash of Alessandro Zanardi at Spa being the straw that broke the camels back.
The other major issue with these early systems was the excessive weight they added due to all the rams & pumps etc. Not to mention the dangers of highly pressurised, hot oil in a very complicated system which didn't make the mechanics lives very easy.
The other factor was most likely that the systems were originally introduced by Lotus and ultimately refined by Williams. Had it been a Ferrari innovation no doubt the Ferrari International Assistance group (or FIA for short...) probably would have turned a blind eye, such are the politics of F1... :whistle:

As an aside, active suspension itself wasn't actually banned - it was the hydraulic rams themselves which were banned at the 1994 Canadian GP as the FIA steward Charlie Whiting issued a stewards bulletin stating that they were illegal as they were movable aerodynamic devices which had been banned some time previously.

I don't believe the Ohlins system would present any of the issues that the early F1 system did, apart from raising corner speeds somewhat, though I doubt that it would be to the extent of causing the bikes to become dangerous (er). :)

[GSVR]

What a contemptible narrow minded post ( frankly ) When Ive had some r and r Ill come back with some realities contrary to your politics of envy.

Please don't save your energy for something more important. I'm not worthy.

Someone told me once that technology on bikes was about 20 years behind cars. I reacon thats bull. Its only around 15.

[cowpoos]

'Poos on to contest the Hampton Downs WSBK race in 2011
I'd need more than some Sparky suspension...I'd need the 1995 rugby world cup caterers from south africa on my side!!!

[Robert Taylor]

Or possibly the Ohlins engineers are so full of their own self interests they can't see the big picture.

And what decade was active suspension banned in F1?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/3154076/Max-Mosley-issues-stark-warning-over-F1-spending-Formula-One.html

Thanks to CS363 for enlightening GSVRs over simplistic and emotive lack of understanding, and ( as a Formula 1 fan myself ) saving a lot of typing.

To flippantly state that ''possibly Ohlins engineers are so full of their own self interests they cant see the big picture'' is a HUGE injustice to their integrity. Do you personally know the chief engineers at the Ohlins factory? Knowing the answer to that question let me enlighten you to a few facts, in random order;

1) The chief race engineer of Ohlins racing department is Mats Larsson, a very tall and brilliant engineer who is very overworked and has no time for bs. I like him a lot for his engineering talents and the help he provides. He also has a very open disrespect for sales and marketing people and their ''self interests''.

2) Their chief test rider is Anders Andersson, certainly a guy that was ''self interested'' enough to compete at Manfield in the early years of WSBK. Very short in stature, totally lacks pretence but also very helpful and a very hard worker.

3) About 5 years back the Ohlins guys drove me to a track they test at frequently in the South of Sweden. Karlskoga raceway is track with bumps akin to Manfield but the pit facilities etc are far less developed than Manfield. It satisfies Ohlins self interest to test there in refining suspension that not only has decent bump compliance but also provides the maximum possible mechanical grip. It certainly also satisfied my own self interest going there and being involved in some of their test programme.

4) Mid November we have an Ohlins engineer visting to train selected Ohlins service agents and in doing so satisying their own self interests.

5) Closer to the end of the year a couple of road race set up seminars will be run by a visiting Ohlins WSBK engineer who has put aside his own self interest at a time that he will be over travelling and will just want r & r with his family before the madness recommences. These seminars will be by invite only for our most loyal and committed Ohlins road race customers, satisfying their own self interest. Those who have derided this company will certainly not recieve an invite.

6) The prototype Ohlins electronically assisted suspension is a good thing in the self interest of progress, and since when was progress a dirty word???????? CS363 highlighted the complexity of the F1 active system, heck its nowhere near that. Corrections are made in damping bleed according to bank angle, torque induced squat, brake dive control, profile of bump and therefore suspension shaft velocity etc. All in the self interest of improved grip, brake dive and overall pitch control. Plenty of people self interested in that and talk of other companies looking at developing their own systems. My god, what a pack of nasty self interested money grubbing capitalist bastards.....

Heck, the race programme could turn pear shaped with bad results at the next meetings, who knows....

You obviously make assumption that this technology will be expensive. Frankly no-one yet knows that and it could well be only incrementally more expensive if it makes it to full scale consumer market production, depending on economy of scale.
Ohlins may well have self interest at heart. It may surprise many ( including GSVR ) that Ohlins very often collaborate with WP in bulk purchase of raw material, such as in the past a certain fork tube size. So as to get a better price, thereby minimising the impact on the end price to serve the self interests of their customers.

I would reasonably suggest GSVR that Ohlins in fact have a much much clearer conception of the bigger picture than you do as their engineers travel all over the world to many different countries, and indeed are very willing to travel to the last bus stop in the world.

Here at a local level we travel with our customer support trailer, that serves our own self interest in generating ongoing sales, but it hasnt escaped everyones attention that we help many people ( out of sheer goodwill ) that ask for help.

GSVR, you are riding at a level and cost that you can afford and are comfortable with, and I dont in any way knock that. But what I object to are ill informed and stupidly emotive comments that condemn those engaged in engineering better solutions.

[johan]

*edit*
never mind, Robert already answered my question just as I wrote it...

[Robert Taylor]

Please don't save your energy for something more important. I'm not worthy.

Someone told me once that technology on bikes was about 20 years behind cars. I reacon thats bull. Its only around 15.

Bollocks, if you came and saw me at a meeting asking for help youd be worthy of same. I jus dont agree with an ''us and them'' mentality that so many of our countrymen subscribe to.

[Robert Taylor]

*edit*
never mind, Robert already answered my questions just as I wrote it...

Johan, see post above. Replying to your message later.

[limbimtimwim]

You obviously make assumption that this technology will be expensive. Frankly no-one yet knows that and it could well be only incrementally more expensive if it makes it to full scale consumer market production, depending on economy of scale.I suspect a mid-range car navigation system has most of the bits required for this. Ie. acceleration meters and gyroscopes. They are not outlandishly expensive. Mass produced in an japanese (Or Italian..) superbike the cost of these parts would not be be out of proportion.

Fuel injection, ABS (And say power steering in cars) were expensive once, all those sensors, pumps are such like.

[sAsLEX]

I suspect a mid-range car navigation system has most of the bits required for this. Ie. acceleration meters and gyroscopes. They are not outlandishly expensive. Mass produced in an japanese (Or Italian..) superbike the cost of these parts would not be be out of proportion.

Fuel injection, ABS (And say power steering in cars) were expensive once, all those sensors, pumps are such like.

As an engineer who has had a look at the data sets that car navigation systems use they will not be of high enough definition for it to work accurately.

Plus they don't have elevation, surface et al information

[GSVR]

Yes, and the rulemakers in WSBK are somewhat shortsiightedly trying to ban it, thereby halting the march of progress. Ohlins engineers are currently in protracted discussions with them and are somewhat gobsmacked by the mentality of it all.


Or possibly the Ohlins engineers are so full of their own self interests they can't see the big picture.

And what decade was active suspension banned in F1?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/3154076/Max-Mosley-issues-stark-warning-over-F1-spending-Formula-One.html


What a contemptible narrow minded post ( frankly ) When Ive had some r and r Ill come back with some realities contrary to your politics of envy.



Please don't save your energy for something more important. I'm not worthy.



Bollocks, if you came and saw me at a meeting asking for help youd be worthy of same. I jus dont agree with an ''us and them'' mentality that so many of our countrymen subscribe to.

You could of just said No. I just assumed the the side of "them" the shortsighted WSB guys. Im sure whatever their motives are money will play a huge part.

BTW The suspension must be good if they want to ban it. If it was crap no one would care and the other teams would encourage its use!

[Robert Taylor]

You could of just said No. I just assumed the the side of "them" the shortsighted WSB guys. Im sure whatever their motives are money will play a huge part.

BTW The suspension must be good if they want to ban it. If it was crap no one would care and the other teams would encourage its use!

Well then, a command of the facts arms one better than making dangerous assumptions, which in turn can often lead to embarrassment. And btw I know only too damn well that the total motivation of the engineers is to get those bikes around the tracks even faster. If the marketing people see commercial potential then yes they will mass produce it. Thats where the TTX36 came from. ETC... and all those nasty profits they make ( indeed way way way way less nasty than oil company profits ) are the engine that drives further r & d.
I think there are a lot easier ways to make money than manufacturing suspension units and getting the market to accept them ( which is not always a given, by any means ) If I had my time again I would choose the path I almost chose, going to law school. Id actually be wealthy rather than being a joe bloggs who otherwise enjoys the constant challenge of what one is doing. Most engineers dont choose such a career path to become wealthy, that is no less true of Ohlins engineers. As in many big companies they almost have a contempt for the sales and marketing guys but are also realistic enough to know that they have to co-exist and co-depend upon one another to generate enough product to survive and be strong in a very fickle industry and also generate enough to fuel further r & d.............that incidentally companies like Ohlins are very engaged in. Nothing at all sinister in that.

[Shaun]

#65 Today, 22:47
Robert Taylor
Forum whore
♂
Bike: None
Location: New Plymouth
Posts: 1,105


Well then, a command of the facts arms one better than making dangerous assumptions, which in turn can often lead to embarrassment. And btw I know only too damn well that the total motivation of the engineers is to get those bikes around the tracks even faster. If the marketing people see commercial potential then yes they will mass produce it.


Agree, the Fitters and development engineers are very focused!

The marketng dept is Crap, as per all marketing dept's. They did not even bother to reply to my EMAIL RE Shit happens? I guess like you? they Knew I was full of Hospital product, not to mention the head BANG!

Thanks for all your email replies about it though, and I thought it was brilliant of you to Personally promise to check all FITMENT of that product and correct PRODUCT fitment, if You had to anything to do with that product.

[Robert Taylor]

#65 Today, 22:47
Robert Taylor
Forum whore
♂
Bike: None
Location: New Plymouth
Posts: 1,105


Well then, a command of the facts arms one better than making dangerous assumptions, which in turn can often lead to embarrassment. And btw I know only too damn well that the total motivation of the engineers is to get those bikes around the tracks even faster. If the marketing people see commercial potential then yes they will mass produce it.


Agree, the Fitters and development engineers are very focused!

The marketng dept is Crap, as per all marketing dept's. They did not even bother to reply to my EMAIL RE Shit happens? I guess like you? they Knew I was full of Hospital product, not to mention the head BANG!

Thanks for all your email replies about it though, and I thought it was brilliant of you to Personally promise to check all FITMENT of that product and correct PRODUCT fitment, if You had to anything to do with that product.

Actually as you very well recall I fairly and proffessionally investigated a problem that you had and concluded that the damper you were supplied was not correct for the bike as the mounting bracket was not correct for the GSXR, even though I did not supply the kit. As very clearly shown to you in my workshop at a time you were being courteous. It was supplied on the other side of the world and you cannot prove or disprove the quality of fitment, therefore you dont know who to authorise legal proceedings against.

I also contacted Ohlins, being in full command of the facts as I analysed them, even though this problem occurred on another distributors patch. Incorrect bracket, not specific to the clearances and damping arc movement required dictated by the oem GSXR mounting. Recipe for disaster given another parties negligence / ignorance. Prove otherwise?

Given that I have been on the recieving end of very very nasty threatening telephone calls I have no interest in drawing any further conclusions.

[Shaun]

"I said" ----- Thanks for all your email replies about it though, and I thought it was brilliant of you to Personally promise to check all FITMENT of that product and correct PRODUCT fitment, if You had to anything to do with that product.
__________________
shaun@motodynamix.co.nz



"you said"



Actually as you very well recall I fairly and proffessionally investigated a problem that you had and concluded that the damper you were supplied was not correct for the bike as the mounting bracket was not correct for the GSXR, even though I did not supply the kit. As very clearly shown to you in my workshop at a time you were being courteous. It was supplied on the other side of the world and you cannot prove or disprove the quality of fitment, therefore you dont know who to authorise legal proceedings against.

I also contacted Ohlins, being in full command of the facts as I analysed them, even though this problem occurred on another distributors patch. Incorrect bracket, not specific to the clearances and damping arc movement required dictated by the oem GSXR mounting. Recipe for disaster given another parties negligence / ignorance. Prove otherwise?

Given that I have been on the recieving end of very very nasty threatening telephone calls I have no interest in drawing any further conclusions.


Well said that man! Conclusions can be very dangerous:stupid:

[slowpoke]

Or possibly the Ohlins engineers are so full of their own self interests they can't see the big picture.

And what decade was active suspension banned in F1?



I don't quite get the points you are trying to make:

I would expect any business individual to have their and their shareholders ineterests at heart, that's the nature of running a business. You and I do exactly the same on a smaller scale when we check our pay packets each fortnight. Until the effect of this sort of technology is actually seen who knows how it fits into the "big picture"?

For that matter what is "the big picture"? Having better road bikes available to you and I? A cheap WSBK series? The fastest/best possible machines on the track? You can't have it all.

Technology has moved on from the times of F1 active suspension, to the point where the systems used then are irrelevant now. Traction control was a mend-bendingly expensive and specilised black art just a few years ago and now we can buy the bits and fit it to our CBR250 for a comparative pittance. So it will be with Arcy Sparky Suspenders.

I'm worried about costs blowing out and reducing the quality of the competition but until it actually starts to happen then I'm happy to reserve judgement.



Someone told me once that technology on bikes was about 20 years behind cars. I reacon thats bull. Its only around 15.

WTF? I can't name a reasonably affordable car with a titanium exhaust, titanium valves, anti-friction coated suspension components, electro-plated cylinder bores rather than heavy liners, multi adjustable suspension with two speed compression damping, sequential cassette style gearbox, fly by wire throttle, anti-compression lock-up slipper clutch, variable length induction venturies, carbon composite bodywork, forged magnesium wheels, titanium rods, magnesium engine cases etc etc. Yes you can tick a couple of boxes on the odd vehicle but we can go down to the local bike shop and for not a lot of dosh we can buy a bike that has most of not all of these boxes ticked. In an age where cars are getting heavier and heavier our bikes are maintaining their kight weight if not getting lighter despite weight inducing emissions legislation. Check the weight gain of a Commodore or BMW M3 or Mitsubishi Evo over the years and compare the weight gain of a CBR900-1000RR or Ducati 916-1098, and the car makers don't look too smart.

[NZsarge]

Check the weight gain of a Commodore or BMW M3 or Mitsubishi Evo over the years and compare the weight gain of a CBR900-1000RR or Ducati 916-1098, and the car makers don't look too smart.

Given models of cars are getting heavier because they are:
A. Getting bigger with each successive model.
B. Having to build more and more safety (both passive and active) features into their cares to remain both competitive in the market place as safety is one of (if not the) the most important criteria for customers and ofcourse required safety standards are become continually more stringent.

Crash standard are'nt applicable to bikes so they don't have build bikes with more more detailed crash zones etc etc in other words their R&D costs and manufacturing costs can more easily be directed into things like exotic materials and so on....

[GSVR]

WTF? I can't name a reasonably affordable car with a titanium exhaust, titanium valves, anti-friction coated suspension components, electro-plated cylinder bores rather than heavy liners, multi adjustable suspension with two speed compression damping, sequential cassette style gearbox, fly by wire throttle, anti-compression lock-up slipper clutch, variable length induction venturies, carbon composite bodywork, forged magnesium wheels, titanium rods, magnesium engine cases etc etc. Yes you can tick a couple of boxes on the odd vehicle but we can go down to the local bike shop and for not a lot of dosh we can buy a bike that has most of not all of these boxes ticked. In an age where cars are getting heavier and heavier our bikes are maintaining their kight weight if not getting lighter despite weight inducing emissions legislation. Check the weight gain of a Commodore or BMW M3 or Mitsubishi Evo over the years and compare the weight gain of a CBR900-1000RR or Ducati 916-1098, and the car makers don't look too smart.

Yeah. And they still come out with substandard suspension despite years of development. Thats really smart. Or is this just a marketing strategy by Ohlins to promote their products?

Hell the new sport bikes even come out with electronic steering dampers. Whats the first thing a racer does when he gets one of these bikes? And why?

If your going to compare bikes to cars at least compare apples with apples. Superbike vs Supercar. Not Suberbike vs Family Sedan.

[Robert Taylor]

"I said" ----- Thanks for all your email replies about it though, and I thought it was brilliant of you to Personally promise to check all FITMENT of that product and correct PRODUCT fitment, if You had to anything to do with that product.
__________________
shaun@motodynamix.co.nz



"you said"





Well said that man! Conclusions can be very dangerous:stupid:

No need for any further diatribe then, as there was none before.

[Robert Taylor]

Yeah. And they still come out with substandard suspension despite years of development. Thats really smart. Or is this just a marketing strategy by Ohlins to promote their products?

Hell the new sports bike even come out with electronic steering dampers. Whats the first thing a racers does when he gets one of these bikes? And why?

Because you the consumer demand the lowest possible price and that is one of several areas they cut costs. Aside also from the fact people are of all shapes, sizes and weights and customisation is therefore required.
Yamaha Motor Co own a 5% stake in Ohlins but their motox bikes come out standard with either KYB or Showa suspension. 2 reasons why, Ohlins have nothing like the production capacity of those two Japanese shock companies ( nor wish to ) and therefore dont have the economy of scale. Because of that first reason they need to keep their bikes competitively priced against their main ( Japanese ) competitors. SIMPLE ECONOMICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
And why single Ohlins out? There are other great companies that exist such as WP and Penske because they make high end great performing dampers.
Just stating the obvious. But choose as you wish to consider its all a conspiracy, most people that have responded get it...........

[GSVR]

Because you the consumer demand the lowest possible price and that is one of several areas they cut costs. Aside also from the fact people are of all shapes, sizes and weights and customisation is therefore required.
Yamaha Motor Co own a 5% stake in Ohlins but their motox bikes come out standard with either KYB or Showa suspension. 2 reasons why, Ohlins have nothing like the production capacity of those two Japanese shock companies ( nor wish to ) and therefore dont have the economy of scale. Because of that first reason they need to keep their bikes competitively priced against their main ( Japanese ) competitors. SIMPLE ECONOMICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
And why single Ohlins out? There are other great companies that exist such as WP and Penske because they make high end great performing dampers.
Just stating the obvious. But choose as you wish to consider its all a conspiracy, most people that have responded get it...........

No not singling Ohlins out at all but they are a good example as they make a great product.

Slowpoke was mentioning all the exotic stuff on a modern sportsbike. Hell Titainium is expensive. That really smacks of cost cutting!

And where in the owners manual does the bike maker advise me that my suspension might not suit my weight and could be a safety issue? They tell you to wear a helmet!

[slowpoke]

Yeah. And they still come out with substandard suspension despite years of development. Thats really smart. Or is this just a marketing strategy by Ohlins to promote their products?

Hell the new sport bikes even come out with electronic steering dampers. Whats the first thing a racer does when he gets one of these bikes? And why?

If your going to compare bikes to cars at least compare apples with apples. Superbike vs Supercar. Not Suberbike vs Family Sedan.

Seriously mate, I think you are loving the reactions you are getting, but maybe it would be better if you went away and had a bit of a think about the comparisons you are making.

How is a preload, rebound and 2 speed compression adjustable shock available on a run of the mill generic Japanese sportsbike substandard? Sure it's not the best you can buy but it probably compares favourably with GP suspension of just a few years ago.

Not all racers ditch the electronic steering damper, but most racers prefer some adjustablity rather than generic settings developed for a road bike.

Superbike versus Supercar? Get real, a generic Jappa sportsbike is at the opposite end of the price/prestige spectrum than the BMW M3 previously mentioned. It and the Evo are acknowledged as some of the finest real world sports cars you can buy, and far from your average family sedan.

[avgas]

I find this new argument about technology on bikes vs cars most interesting.
As an enthusiast in both - i can openly state that it does vary rarely matter.
Bikes are not behind cars in technology at all. Anyone who has this misconception has not looked very in depth into the matter.
They are different vehicles really.
What cars have 5v/cylinder technology? where did they get it from?
Fly-by-wire is bull as it is like the nasa special pen.....cost millions and is as good as a pencil in space. Do we have a sudden lack of throttle cables in the world? Is their any advantage in telling a middle-man that you would like to change your throttle position?
Think about it this way, if you were going to talk to a friend - would you ring up another friend that you jointly knew and arrange for a meeting where you would be Chinese whispers through the joint friend?
So why the hell do it on a vehicle (apart for the wank factor).
And before i get my head bitten off for this and i have to tell why its wrong - i should let you know that i have a fair bit of knowledge in magic boxes with blinky lights and how they work.
Yes KISS is not always the best idea - but you should consider ALL options in new deisgns - even the simpler ones.

[GSVR]

Seriously mate, I think you are loving the reactions you are getting, but maybe it would be better if you went away and had a bit of a think about the comparisons you are making.

How is a preload, rebound and 2 speed compression adjustable shock available on a run of the mill generic Japanese sportsbike substandard? Sure it's not the best you can buy but it probably compares favourably with GP suspension of just a few years ago.

Not all racers ditch the electronic steering damper, but most racers prefer some adjustablity rather than generic settings developed for a road bike.

Superbike versus Supercar? Get real, a generic Jappa sportsbike is at the opposite end of the price/prestige spectrum than the BMW M3 previously mentioned. It and the Evo are acknowledged as some of the finest real world sports cars you can buy, and far from your average family sedan.

Well I'm a little surprised at the passion behind some of the replies but have carefully worded to keep my posts simple and questioning. Not becuase I actually care to much either way but more to provide the other side of the debate.

I find the suspensions and brakes on the modern superbikes awesome but awesome can be improved on for a price.

Suzuki had for years this generic non adjustable steering dampner that came out on their bikes. You must know the one. Now they make an improvement and its just a gimic and doesn't have the adjustment required for track use?

In all respect the cars you mention not supercars they are actually sports/touring cars and as such should be compared to sports/touring bikes like the VFR etc.

[Robert Taylor]

No not singling Ohlins out at all but they are a good example as they make a great product.

Slowpoke was mentioning all the exotic stuff on a modern sportsbike. Hell Titainium is expensive. That really smacks of cost cutting!

And where in the owners manual does the bike maker advise me that my suspension might not suit my weight and could be a safety issue? They tell you to wear a helmet!

Heck you are not going to change the world on your own so Id stop winding yourself and others up any further. Im not going to waste any more time clarifying the obvious. Read and absorb what slowpoke says, he is making a lot of sense. Finito.

[GSVR]

Heck you are not going to change the world on your own so Id stop winding yourself and others up any further. Im not going to waste any more time clarifying the obvious. Read and absorb what slowpoke says, he is making a lot of sense. Finito.

I really thought you would have something to say about this from Mr Slowpoke:

"How is a preload, rebound and 2 speed compression adjustable shock available on a run of the mill generic Japanese sportsbike substandard? Sure it's not the best you can buy but it probably compares favourably with GP suspension of just a few years ago. "

At the risk of repeating whats already been said in other threads of course!

[Robert Taylor]

I really thought you would have something to say about this from Mr Slowpoke:

"How is a preload, rebound and 2 speed compression adjustable shock available on a run of the mill generic Japanese sportsbike substandard? Sure it's not the best you can buy but it probably compares favourably with GP suspension of just a few years ago. "

At the risk of repeating whats already been said in other threads of course!

Clearly I dont have the idle time that you have, nor do I wish to keep repeating myself. FINITO.

[cowpoos]

Hell Titainium is expensive. That really smacks of cost cutting!
!


Titainium is actually very very prolific mineral actually!!

But besides that...what the hell has got up your goose gary!
You are no doubt a free thinker...always new that from talking to you regularly at the track,etc...so whats with this sudden anti suspension companies conspurisy theory thing you got going here!!

[Shaun]

Titainium is actually very very prolific mineral actually!!

But besides that...what the hell has got up your goose gary!
You are no doubt a free thinker...always new that from talking to you regularly at the track,etc...so whats with this sudden anti suspension companies conspurisy theory thing you got going here!!



Very pink thick lips you have there dude:Oops:

[GSVR]

Titainium is actually very very prolific mineral actually!!

But besides that...what the hell has got up your goose gary!
You are no doubt a free thinker...always new that from talking to you regularly at the track,etc...so whats with this sudden anti suspension companies conspurisy theory thing you got going here!!

Titanium is very plentyful but that doesn't make it cheap. The resason it expense is because it is hard stuff to work with. Same sort of deal as Stainless.

I'm not anti suspension companies as its one of the components on a bike that can make a huge difference. I would like to to realistically quanitify the actually difference between OEM and quality aftermarket.

Theres good reasons for fitting aftermarket to racebikes. You can't get OEM race suspension.

But would you agree with Slowpokes statement that the current OEM stuff is comparable with GP suspension of a few years ago?

I don't think they can be compared as they are doing two very differrent jobs.

The R in GSXR doesn't stand for Race it stands for Replica. Whats it a replica of ?

[SixPackBack]

Titanium is very plentyful but that doesn't make it cheap. The resason it expense is because it is hard stuff to work with. Same sort of deal as Stainless.

I'm not anti suspension companies as its one of the components on a bike that can make a huge difference. I would like to to realistically quanitify the actually difference between OEM and quality aftermarket.

Theres good reasons for fitting aftermarket to racebikes. You can't get OEM race suspension.

But would you agree with Slowpokes statement that the current OEM stuff is comparable with GP suspension of a few years ago?

I don't think they can be compared as they are doing two very differrent jobs.

The R in GSXR doesn't stand for Race it stands for Replica. Whats it a replica of ?


Not true. In many respects both stainless and titanium are easy materials to process.

[GSVR]

Not true. In many respects both stainless and titanium are easy materials to process.

Ok then Einstein so why is Titanium so goddam expensive.


Or maybe this thread should get back on track and the merits of WSBK being a testing ground for new technologies should be discussed.

[Cajun]

well in theory wsbk shouldn't be a testing ground for new tech isn't that what motogp for, wsbk is production superbike. In thory every item on a wsbk bike an average jo should be able to order. (be it at a very large expense)

And i am guessing these ohlins joe average can not go buy at this point in time, , so shouldn't be in the arena.

[SixPackBack]

Ok then Einstein so why is Titanium so goddam expensive.


Or maybe this thread should get back on track and the merits of WSBK being a testing ground for new technologies should be discussed.

*Betchya GSVR is from that manawatutu place with all the high tech-ma-nolagee*

[Shaun]

Ok then Einstein so why is Titanium so goddam expensive.


Or maybe this thread should get back on track and the merits of WSBK being a testing ground for new technologies should be discussed.



Na fuck that, it brings the truth and honesty out:banana::Playnice:

[Robert Taylor]

Titanium is very plentyful but that doesn't make it cheap. The resason it expense is because it is hard stuff to work with. Same sort of deal as Stainless.

I'm not anti suspension companies as its one of the components on a bike that can make a huge difference. I would like to to realistically quanitify the actually difference between OEM and quality aftermarket.

Theres good reasons for fitting aftermarket to racebikes. You can't get OEM race suspension.

But would you agree with Slowpokes statement that the current OEM stuff is comparable with GP suspension of a few years ago?

I don't think they can be compared as they are doing two very differrent jobs.

The R in GSXR doesn't stand for Race it stands for Replica. Whats it a replica of ?

Nothing is ever as it seems and most often its not worth losing sleep over. All power to technology.

[NZsarge]

If your going to compare bikes to cars at least compare apples with apples. Superbike vs Supercar. Not Suberbike vs Family Sedan.




Superbike versus Supercar? the Evo are acknowledged as some of the finest real world sports cars you can buy, and far from your average family sedan.

Yeah, you'd be mind boggled how quick an Evo can be in the right hands, particularly in the tighter going.

[NZsarge]

well in theory wsbk shouldn't be a testing ground for new tech isn't that what motogp for, wsbk is production superbike. In thory every item on a wsbk bike an average jo should be able to order. (be it at a very large expense)

And i am guessing these ohlins joe average can not go buy at this point in time, , so shouldn't be in the arena.

I agree, this sort of yet to be purchasable tech (by the above mentioned "average Joe") would be better left to Moto GP (probably already is being used there...)
But then again if Ohlins were looking at developing this tech for use on roadbikes in the nearish future would this not be the best arena to begin development....?
Meh..

[Robert Taylor]

I agree, this sort of yet to be purchasable tech (by the above mentioned "average Joe") would be better left to Moto GP (probably already is being used there...)
But then again if Ohlins were looking at developing this tech for use on roadbikes in the nearish future would this not be the best arena to begin development....?
Meh..

This will be coming to roadbikes in the future and it is totally relevant to bikes that are closer to those on the street. It has not yet been used by Ohlins in MotoGP. As to the reasons why I havent directly asked the Ohlins techs as they are rather busy at present.

[GSVR]

Yeah, you'd be mind boggled how quick an Evo can be in the right hands, particularly in the tighter going.

No Dispute with that. But if your going to compare a car with the quickest production road bike available what car would you choose?


I agree, this sort of yet to be purchasable tech (by the above mentioned "average Joe") would be better left to Moto GP (probably already is being used there...)
But then again if Ohlins were looking at developing this tech for use on roadbikes in the nearish future would this not be the best arena to begin development....?
Meh..

Probably the best place to test a product is where its going to be used. But then you wouldn't get the wordwide exposure and generate anticipation or demonstrate how well it works. Isn't that the main motive for any factory team or component supplier to be there in the first place? What wins on Sunday sells Monday

[NZsarge]

No Dispute with that. But if your going to compare a car with the quickest production road bike available what car would you choose?
Hmm Tempted to say Veyron...but.. hell that's harded to answer than I thought it would be and I thought it would quite difficult to answer and as you pointed out before....probably not the right thread.


Probably the best place to test a product is where its going to be used. But then you wouldn't get the wordwide exposure and generate anticipation or demonstrate how well it works. Isn't that the main motive for any factory team or component supplier to be there in the first place? What wins on Sunday sells Monday
Yes agreed, if you're actually intending to produce road going versions of what you're racing it makes sense to develop it on the racing series that is closer to road bikes which means Superbikes not Moto GP.

[Robert Taylor]

No Dispute with that. But if your going to compare a car with the quickest production road bike available what car would you choose?



Probably the best place to test a product is where its going to be used. But then you wouldn't get the wordwide exposure and generate anticipation or demonstrate how well it works. Isn't that the main motive for any factory team or component supplier to be there in the first place? What wins on Sunday sells Monday

And the flipside is if its a dramatic failure you never hear the end of it from all the doubting Thomas's and five minute experts..............

[cowpoos]

Very pink thick lips you have there dude:Oops:

Yeah...problem is they make my arse look fat!!

Now stop hitting on me!! you'll make your wife jealous!

[Shaun]

Yeah...problem is they make my arse look fat!!

Now stop hitting on me!! you'll make your wife jealous!




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