Dirt biking has evolved!

[cave weta]

Bloody hell it has just sunk in! - Ive had all day to think about what happened to me on Saturday....


Back in 1976 I was lucky enough to be one of the first people in the country to ride a bike with just one rear shock absorber- radical! A few years later I found that disc brakes would solve the fading and constant adjustment of drum brakes.
In the mid 90s they discovered how to make 4 strokes perform and powervalves made 2 strokes tractable.
Well- This weekend I was introduced to All Wheel Drive Dirtbikes!!!!!
I spent Satuday clawing my way up impossible clay rutted hills and churning through Knee deep bogs on a CRF250x fitted with the system.
Over The Top Adventures has been chosen as launch partner for the release of the amazing CHRISTINI AWD system! you will read about it next month in DRD, but for now, let me tell you that this summer is the going to be the most significant era in Dirt Biking that most of us will ever see. The Christini system has been under development for 5 years in the USA and Europe.
OFFROAD IMPORTS (http://www.offroadimports.co.nz)are the NZ Dealer for this amazing innovation! Bikes are here and available right now. this summer you will be able to come here and test ride these amazing bikes yourself on the challenging trails that we offer as our tour package.

where is it??
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Here's the business!
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And the system with its pants down...
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and here's where you will be without it! A conventional bike in the same hole!
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[bomma]

wahahaha that's badass!!! can do simultaneous front and rear burnouts!! :2thumbsup

[Badger8]

WOOT?! That is a freakin great idea, but i'm just tryin to wrap my head around how the heck it works... How is it transferring drive to the front wheel? cant see the workings particularly well in those photo's... would be an insane thing to try out alright! :woohoo:

[cave weta]

WOOT?! That is a freakin great idea, but i'm just tryin to wrap my head around how the heck it works... How is it transferring drive to the front wheel? cant see the workings particularly well in those photo's... would be an insane thing to try out alright! :woohoo:


wahahaha that's badass!!! can do simultaneous front and rear burnouts!! :2thumbsup

This thing is like comparing the off road capabilities of a full on 4WD rally plugger with a Toyota hiace van!
You point this thing at the nastiest rutted slick clay hill you can find and ride 1/2 way up, stop, roll open the throttle and just cruise up the rest of the way!
No dramas- no heroics- just go where you want! I tested two of them on Saturday, one was manual- the other had a Reklus auto clutch and a hand rear brake- that was another story again!

[motorbyclist]

a few years back yamaha was experiemnting both on and off road with 2WD

they had a hydraulic pump running of the output of the gearbox, sending fluid to another pump in the front hub. this meant no mechanical link to the front and if the rear wheel breaks loose the front wheel will get more power to compensate (output spins up pump = moar power), and the front can't get more power than the rear (output not change means pump not change)

apparently it's magic on the dirt, but on the road it really only came into it's own during wet races. but, of course, these systems added a significant amount to the pricetag (talking a $30k dirtbike here) and would require their own classes to race them

that honda there looks like a similar story - is it affordable?

[theblacksmith]

You ve had a visit from my welsh friend Dafydd aye? Cool.
Have a look at the Christini website guys - this system is the shit man!

[cave weta]

a few years back yamaha was experiemnting both on and off road with 2WD

that honda there looks like a similar story - is it affordable?

You justfy the price once you have ridden it!- Whats a brand new standard CRF worth?- $12,000- im not sure.... OFFROAD IMPORTS (http://www.offroadimports.co.nz)Have got one sitting in a box ready for you for $18,500 but honestly, you are getting more than a bike and a half! they have KTM EXC300s on their way too- luurvely!:2thumbsup
those yamahas cost a fortune and were not made available to the public punters. They were robbed of so much power using hydraulics.
This system comes with a 12 month warranty and 50 hour service intervals. (basicaly seals and bearings) the power loss is quoted at .2hp on the 250. you would never feel it..

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COME ON, YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO......

[CB ARGH]

Somebodie's got some real talent here!!! That's wicked man. :Punk:

[cave weta]

Somebodie's got some real talent here!!! That's wicked man. :Punk:

OFFROAD IMPORTS (http://www.offroadimports.co.nz)will be having regular AWD EXPERIENCE rides here with us. Better get down here and get muddy!

You Know You want to...

[Pierce]

I've seen these bikes in action and they are really very impressive! Was over at the trailblazer with CR125NZ and Dafydd who was actually riding one (he is one of the guys in charge of bringing them in I think). Front wheel has a clutch so you choose the amount of power to the front wheel and you can actually ride rear wheel only.

They look strange when going up hills cos you can actually see it get pulled up by the front wheel and round corners too.

I'll stick with conventional rear wheel drive but for a serious trail rider this could be a machine for you

[cave weta]

- other stuff that OFF ROAD IMPORTS (www.offroadimports.co.nz)have is;

Stomp grip - its like velcro for you and your bike! Wickedly grippy panels that stick you to your steed!


Reklus auto clutches- You just have to ride one!

Hyde Protectors and bashplates - you can see em all over the frame and swingarm of the Christini. They are polypropelyne moulded panels that protect the easily damaged parts of your bike. the bashplate is so close fitting and sexy!!
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Hand rear brakes so that you have something to do with your left hand once your clutch has gone!

Co-Polymer extruded Carbon case savers- these are moulded to fit the various models of clutch cover and protect against rock and brake lever caused holes.

Lockable steel braid un cuttable tie downs! You just have to see them!

A bike wash that is fully endorsed by **ME**!! - and trust me- I wash a lot of bikes !
www.offroadimports.co.nz- (http://www.offroadimports.co.nz) tell em I sent ya

[krad_nz]

I dunno, I find it hard to believe that you only lose 0.2 HP.
No expert but just thinking about drive line loses/efficiency in cars etc.

- FWD loses = 20-30%
- RWD loses = 30-40%
- 4WD loses = lots, some Subi's can be 70% apparently.

Still, bet it would be fun :)

[cs363]

Back in 1976 I was lucky enough to be one of the first people in the country to ride a bike with just one rear shock absorber- radical!


I don't know if an AG100 with one rear shock missing really qualifies as a monoshock in the true sense Stu..... :bleh:

Looks like you had some fun, and that certainly looks like a better system than the hydraulic one, and certainly easier to jerry rig if you did happen to strike problems out in the middle of nowhere.
I certainly appreciate the value for those that ride in boggy conditions a lot and would be interested in having a skid, but just not sure if it's entirely me...

On another note, shame that Offroad Imports don't list pricing for those tie downs or any dealer info - they look like a bloody good idea! Any idea what they are worth?

[barty5]

On another note, shame that Offroad Imports don't list pricing for those tie downs or any dealer info - they look like a bloody good idea! Any idea what they are worth?[/QUOTE]

Yeh saw those looked quite good could quite tell was i a hurry did they have a locking system as well

[cs363]

Yeah saw those looked quite good could quite tell was i a hurry did they have a locking system as well

Looks like they have one of those high security key locks (like a disc lock) though it's hard to tell from the pic.

[cave weta]

Information is on its way.... just emailed them!

[cave weta]

Ive been sent a PDF with all the info on the security straps. EMail me if you would like me to send it to you.

Ive been reading on the net about the hydraulic vs mechanical system for the AWD- seems that Yamaha pulled their tail between their legs and gave up in 2004 whereas the Christini system is performing well in extreme competition..

[I]The entire system adds only 15 pounds to the weight of the bike – compared with the 19 pounds of the system used by the Yamaha and KTM.

The system has already proven effective in hard enduro racing, with its reliability successfully tested in World Enduro, GNCC, Endurocross, Red Bull Last Man Standing and Hare scrambles over the last few months. Christini riders have consistently placed well, raising eyebrows amongst competitors, and are unanimous in their praise for the system. The effect is equally amazing for novice riders, who will simply spend less time stuck or falling over and suffer noticeably less riding fatigue.

[A&R]

You justfy the price once you have ridden it!- Whats a brand new standard CRF worth?- $12,000- im not sure.... OFFROAD IMPORTS (http://www.offroadimports.co.nz)Have got one sitting in a box ready for you for $18,500 but honestly, you are getting more than a bike and a half! they have KTM EXC300s on their way too- luurvely!:2thumbsup
those yamahas cost a fortune and were not made available to the public punters. They were robbed of so much power using hydraulics.
This system comes with a 12 month warranty and 50 hour service intervals. (basicaly seals and bearings) the power loss is quoted at .2hp on the 250. you would never feel it..

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COME ON, YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO......

I looked at one of those 18months ago. I had some quotes from christini in the U.S.A. they had a couple of demos at the time. Could have got one for NZ$12000 but couldn't afford it at the time. they got a real good web site shows you how it all works. would luv to have ago on one.http://www.christini.com/awd-technology.php

[cave weta]

would luv to have a go on one

Ahh well.... funny you should say that...
Off Road Imports are running AWD Experience days on my tracks!
$199 gets you 4 hours riding my tracks and testing the bikes. (minimum 2 riders)


come on Andy....
you need a thrill

[xwhatsit]

I dunno, I find it hard to believe that you only lose 0.2 HP.
No expert but just thinking about drive line loses/efficiency in cars etc.

- FWD loses = 20-30%
- RWD loses = 30-40%
- 4WD loses = lots, some Subi's can be 70% apparently.

Still, bet it would be fun :)
First of all -- I like your bike :D

On topic though, remember you're already factoring in rear wheel drive train losses with the horsepower figure they're taking. Probably dynoed a normal CRF250 and then dynoed a CRF250 with 2WD. So you're already talking rear wheel horsepower. Also, there's no hydraulics in this; it's pretty much direct mechanical drive (what is that -- chain drive to a drive shaft running down the fork leg?), so it's going to be fairly efficient.

0.2HP out of ~30 rear wheel horsepower sounds a little generous, but I reckon the power loss could be smaller than most would guess.

[pete376403]

I dunno, I find it hard to believe that you only lose 0.2 HP.
No expert but just thinking about drive line loses/efficiency in cars etc.

- FWD loses = 20-30%
- RWD loses = 30-40%
- 4WD loses = lots, some Subi's can be 70% apparently.

Still, bet it would be fun :)

That 0.2hp would be with perfectly lubricated and adjusted chains, gears, etc. It would possibly get worse as the system approaches it's maintenance interval.
Bevel gear diffs in cars suck up a fair amount of power but those numbers seem a bit high. I know there is a general "loose 30% power through the driveline" statement but, as I once read in a David Vizard book on that - say an engine makes 250Kw at the flywheel - conventional wisdom says you loose 30% - 83Kw in the driveline. Well, knowing how hot 2.4Kw (ie your standard domestic electric heater) gets, does the gearbox and diff get as hot as 34 electric heaters running a full output? Because thats the only thing power losses can be converted to - heat. Or maybe drivelines aren't as inefficient as has been claimed, and the "30%" figure has been pulled out of the air to cover the difference between someones supposed huge power engine and the far lower figure that it really delivers on a chassis dyno.

[cave weta]

That 0.2hp would be with perfectly lubricated and adjusted chains, gears, etc. It would possibly get worse as the system approaches it's maintenance interval.
Bevel gear diffs in cars suck up a fair amount of power but those numbers seem a bit high. I know there is a general "loose 30% power through the driveline" statement but, as I once read in a David Vizard book on that - say an engine makes 250Kw at the flywheel - conventional wisdom says you loose 30% - 83Kw in the driveline. Well, knowing how hot 2.4Kw (ie your standard domestic electric heater) gets, does the gearbox and diff get as hot as 34 electric heaters running a full output? Because thats the only thing power losses can be converted to - heat. Or maybe drivelines aren't as inefficient as has been claimed, and the "30%" figure has been pulled out of the air to cover the difference between someones supposed huge power engine and the far lower figure that it really delivers on a chassis dyno.

David Vizard was the god of speed in the 80s..
but my shiny, multipage, embossed full colour CHRISTINI brochure
tells me 1/10 of a horse power. is that american standard bred or english thoughobred? I dont know- Im off to bed, but if you want to ride it and find out for yourself- just make a booking....

[krad_nz]

Yeah those figures are ball park and not linear :)

A 1000kw FWD vehicle will not lose 250KW through the drive line etc. If it did.. well things would get hot fast.
Thats a lot of energy to dissipate as heat & noise & kinetic like you said.

In this case..... 0.2/30 = 0.67% losses. Just seems very low to me.

I have a Starlet that is old but is rated as 100kw at the fly wheel. Its slightly modified so I'm assuming that the mods have negated loss of power due to engine wear & age etc.
On the dyno it puts out pretty much 75kw which is 25% loss. Everything is connected via a mechanical linkage and the gear box hasn't melted due to trying to dissipate 25kw...... yet :)

And shaft drives are better than a chain system too I believe?

Anyway, back on to the goodies.

xerxesdaphat: I refer to it not as a bike, but as 'The Lump'. :)
Starts first kick most of the time too!

[cave weta]

That 0.2hp would be with perfectly lubricated and adjusted chains, gears, etc. It would possibly get worse as the system approaches it's maintenance interval.
Bevel gear diffs in cars suck up a fair amount of power but those numbers seem a bit high. I know there is a general "loose 30% power through the driveline" statement but, as I once read in a David Vizard book on that - say an engine makes 250Kw at the flywheel - conventional wisdom says you loose 30% - 83Kw in the driveline. Well, knowing how hot 2.4Kw (ie your standard domestic electric heater) gets, does the gearbox and diff get as hot as 34 electric heaters running a full output? Because thats the only thing power losses can be converted to - heat. Or maybe drivelines aren't as inefficient as has been claimed, and the "30%" figure has been pulled out of the air to cover the difference between someones supposed huge power engine and the far lower figure that it really delivers on a chassis dyno.

Oh by the way Pete-- Cool avatar! wallace rocks!

[theblacksmith]

2wd? Hmmm - probably get more life out of the tyres lol!!!

[cave weta]

Ive been chatting with the importer today. These AWD bikes will now be available in my rental fleet! :woohoo:

For $199 each, you and a mate can come to my private natural terrain tracks and put these machines through their paces! you will get 4 hours of riding including an hour on your own bike to familiarise yourself with the challenging hills and bogs in this awesome private venue. Then we will put a few steaks on the barbie while you will go over the technicalities of the machines with the importer himself.Then hit the same tracks on the worlds most advanced dirtbikes.
You will recieve a cd crammed with photos of your ride and a cashback voucher that will refund the full cost of your
ALL WHEEL DRIVE EXPERIENCE
if you decide to purchase your own Christini.