Cordura jacket and pants that leak!

[Grubber]

Has anyone had prob's with the so called 100% water proof jackets that seem to leak after a couple of years??
Got some rev-it gear that is suppose to be just the bees knees etc and it leaks real bad. Been advised to buy over jacket and pants!!!Was hoping that the water proof gear was going to help avoid getting wet and buying more wet weather gear.
Anyone care to tell me if they feel they just wasted thier money buying this stuff?:angry2:

[Hitcher]

Is the membrane in your Rev'It gear Gore-Tex? If you want to keep dry, don't accept imitations.

[TimeOut]

My jacket started leaking around the elbows, sprayed it with "Silicone Water-Guard" seemed to make it better than new.

[Bend-it]

Yup... but mine's el-cheapo Nortech, so I don't quite blame them. It's been a giid 3 years... now TIME FOR NEW GEAR!!! :2thumbsup:

[Grubber]

Yea it's all good stuff but still failed to stay dry.
Really annoyed as i was going to buy new leather 2 piece this season but now got the wet weather problem.Damn!

[Grubber]

Oh yea and i sprayed this one too and it STILL leaked!!

[ital916]

Has anyone had prob's with the so called 100% water proof jackets that seem to leak after a couple of years??
Got some rev-it gear that is suppose to be just the bees knees etc and it leaks real bad. Been advised to buy over jacket and pants!!!Was hoping that the water proof gear was going to help avoid getting wet and buying more wet weather gear.
Anyone care to tell me if they feel they just wasted thier money buying this stuff?:angry2:

First off...a lot of gear I would say is 75 to 90 % waterproof. You ride in the rain long enough, your jacket will get saturated and will leak here and there. To be 100% get rain gear and put it on top. It doesn't cost an arm and a leg, placemakers does some for 12 bucks if your el cheapo.

That way you have a piece of clothing doing one thing and one thing well, and that is keeping you dry. You'll have your cordura jacket on underneath.

Second, what rev-it jacket is it? How old is it? How do you handle it? How heavy is the rain? Are the pants leaking too? If so where? Take your rev-it gear back to the store where you got it and get them to check it out, Instead of flying onto kb in a flurry and shooting your mouth off. If you can't fix the problem after that then ask/bitch for help on here.

Oh and motorcycling is an outdoor pursuit so if in heavy rain you stay dry for three ours and then geta little wet HTFU. It's not acid matey it's water. Now go and try to fix the problem instead of bitch about it.

My 2c.

[Duke girl]

Even thou they are suppose to be 100% waterproof I always protect mine with spraying extra water proof spray on them, even if you shouldnt really need to do it. You have to wonder what sort of waterproof testing they put them through before selling them as a 100% waterproof product. Do you know how much warrenty was on them when you purchased them as you maybe covered in returning them?. Worth a try.

[portokiwi]

sorry mate cant afford them yet.:nono:

[ital916]

Even thou they are suppose to be 100% waterproof I always protect mine with spraying extra water proof spray on them, even if you shouldnt really need to do it. You have to wonder what sort of waterproof testing they put them through before selling them as a 100% waterproof product. Do you know how much warrenty was on them when you purchased them as you maybe covered in returning them?. Worth a try.

I think it's more a problem of people wanting a jacket that will protect them, keep them dry, keep them warm and cool at the same time, fits fantastic and looks good. It's like getting a limousine, minivan, 4wd off road car that looks like supercar, goes like a supercar and costs the same as a kia.:shutup:

[Grubber]

Not sure what planet your from dude,,,but i have been back to the friggin shop and i didn't come here to bitch. I came here to see if they really are worth the money ya pay for them.
If you find it a bit difficult to fatham that then basically i couldn't give a tin of cold dog crap what you got to say.
Take a couple more prozac and crawl back in ya corner...

[Grubber]

Warrenty was 12 month and did the spray thing....Shop will do good deal on over jacket etc so aint so bad. Was just curious as to other people and this type of gear..all good.

[ital916]

Not sure what planet your from dude,,,but i have been back to the friggin shop and i didn't come here to bitch. I came here to see if they really are worth the money ya pay for them.
If you find it a bit difficult to fatham that then basically i couldn't give a tin of cold dog crap what you got to say.
Take a couple more prozac and crawl back in ya corner...

Oooh looks like someones a wittle angry. :grouphug: I wasn't bagging on ya, I'm just very blunt. And yes they are worth the money you pay for them. Now what was the jacket pant names etc. You said rev it..how old? Answer the qs please..I said please. Are they under warranty?

[Hitcher]

Spraying membrane-based waterproof clothing completely compromises the membrane.

[Duke girl]

Just make sure you shop around when purchasing your next 1 and ask plenty of questions about the 1 you are interested in before buying it. Goodluck.

[Pwalo]

FWIW I commute every day, and my Teknic jackets haven't let in a drop over the last three years. (Especially after I learn't to tuck my gloves into my jacket sleeves).

[klingon]

Waterproof membranes can start to leak when they get dirty/greasy. Proper stuff for washing them is cheap from a bike store (e.g. Techwash) so give that a go.

Another reason for leaking is stress on the seams. If you've been wearing a lot of bulky winter gear underneath, you might be stressing the seams more than usual. Make sure your gear is large enough size to go over the top of whatever winter woollies you'll be wearing underneath.

I have some Dririder pants that I've been wearing pretty much non stop for the last three years (including in some very heavy rain) and I've had no problem with them leaking.

[<Rhino>]

FWIW I commute every day, and my Teknic jackets haven't let in a drop over the last three years. (Especially after I learn't to tuck my gloves into my jacket sleeves).

My gloves go under the jacket too (only because they have too) and I stay pretty dry. I have a Dri Rider Summit pro jacket and love it, comfy, warm, and mostly waterproof. I do get a little wet in sustained heavy rain but wear a gortex jacket underneath so all toasty warm and dry :sunny:

[Grubber]

My gear was just short of 2 years old when it started leaking. Shop guy said it sometimes happens but not very often. All i needed to know was if he was telling me porkies or not.
Don't usually have to wear a whole lot of winter stuff underneath as it is warm enough.
Just leaks thats all.

[Matt]

I don't rate the Rev-it stuff at all - see http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=68729 - eventually got a refund after far too much hassle.

My old Teknic stuff was great, as is my current Alpinestars...

Matt

[ajturbo]

Even thou they are suppose to be 100% waterproof I always protect mine with spraying extra water proof spray on them, even if you shouldnt really need to do it. You have to wonder what sort of waterproof testing they put them through before selling them as a 100% waterproof product. Do you know how much warrenty was on them when you purchased them as you maybe covered in returning them?. Worth a try.
what??? you go out in the rain??? bull shit!

[Max Preload]

Warranty was 12 month and did the spray thing....

Just remember stated 'warranty' periods don't mean shit if you're prepared to stick to your guns if you come up against unreasonable retailers. You're covered by the Consumer Guarantees Act for a 'reasonable period'. I'd make the call that any referee at the Disputes Tribunal would agree with me that a reasonable period is 3-5 years for bike gear given what you pay for it and the claims made by the manufacturer as to suitability for the purpose (it's not like you're using it outside of what it's intended for).

[Griffin]

I don't rate the Rev-it stuff at all - see http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=68729 - eventually got a refund after far too much hassle.

My old Teknic stuff was great, as is my current Alpinestars...

Matt

Mmmmmmmmmmmm Alpinestars... thats the bees knees. An Alpinestars goretex suit is the equivalent of getting a limousine, minivan, 4wd off road car that looks like supercar, goes like a supercar. Unfortunately not on a Kia budget tho :(

[Askelon]

My teknics jacket was good for a good 5-6 years when it started leaking like a sieve. Got a quasimoto atm and its all good so far! My pants on the other hand didnt even last a year.

[turtleman]

My KBC pants leaked the first time I wore them in the rain. Took them back to the shop where they said "it's probably the stitching - we'll send them away to get fixed" !

I just said "no - they're supposed to be 100% waterproof, and they're not, so I want them replaced. So they replaced them with some Alpinestars ones and they're pretty good !

The KBC jacket is crap too - I seem to get quite damp after a short ride in the rain, and it's less than a year old. Looks like I'm gonna either spray it or replace it. Probably just get some leathers and some cheap wet weather overpants etc.

Rain-off glubbs are primo tho' ..... http://www.rain-off.com/

[Quasievil]

I'd make the call that any referee at the Disputes Tribunal would agree with me that a reasonable period is 3-5 years for bike gear given what you pay for it and the claims made by the manufacturer as to suitability for the purpose (it's not like you're using it outside of what it's intended for).

I would tell the tribunal to stick up there arse if they expected me to warranty an item after 3+ years.
I hate cordura and the whole waterproof thing, it depends on so much more than just the gear it depends on how it is being used etc as well.
basically its unrealistic to expect to be completely dry after riding in the rain, for a long period of time particulary and unless you are going to spend the HUGE bucks you wont, and I can tell you for free that 80% of bikers pay as little as possible but expect the best possible results, that applies to most things. In saying all that we do our best, and apply the best technology we can whilst keeping in the price bracket that people buy in. But 3 years lol no way, I wouldnt even bother turning up I would send them a copy of the warranty.

[Max Preload]

I would tell the tribunal to stick up there arse if they expected me to warranty an item after 3+ years.
I hate cordura and the whole waterproof thing, it depends on so much more than just the gear it depends on how it is being used etc as well.
basically its unrealistic to expect to be completely dry after riding in the rain, for a long period of time particulary and unless you are going to spend the HUGE bucks you wont, and I can tell you for free that 80% of bikers pay as little as possible but expect the best possible results, that applies to most things. In saying all that we do our best, and apply the best technology we can whilst keeping in the price bracket that people buy in. But 3 years lol no way, I wouldnt even bother turning up I would send them a copy of the warranty.

Not turning up is a sure way to lose. And like I've already said, your written warranty means diddly squat - you can't contract out of the CGA with a disclaimer or specified warranty period. Not long after its introduction my ex bought one of those fluorescent pink Shoei RF200s from Mike Vinsen Suzuki, and it faded badly very quickly - within about 18 months. When approached for a remedy, they tried to say that everyone knows fluorescent colours fade and wouldn't replace or refund. So she filed with Small Claims as it was known then and was awarded the cost of repainting in a colour scheme of her choosing. I remember the referee stating 'If they [Mike Vinsen] knew it would fade badly as they've stated everyone knows then there should have been a notice to that effect fixed to the helmet'. I mean FFS it's a motorcycle helmet - it gets used in the sun!

But back to the waterproof jackets... as for how it's being used, it's being used on a motorcycle, just as it's being sold to be used, as a waterproof item of clothing. We're not talking physical damage here from it being used on enduro riding and branches damaging the jacket - we're talking about seepage through the various membrane or joints in it. That is unacceptable.

[Quasievil]

Not turning up is a sure way to lose. And like I've already said, your written warranty means diddly squat - you can't contract out of the CGA with a disclaimer or specified warranty period. Not long after its introduction my ex bought one of those fluorescent pink Shoei RF200s from Mike Vinsen Suzuki, and it faded badly very quickly - within about 18 months. When approached for a remedy, they tried to say that everyone knows fluorescent colours fade and wouldn't replace or refund. So she filed with Small Claims as it was known then and was awarded the cost of repainting in a colour scheme of her choosing. I remember the referee stating 'If they [Mike Vinsen] knew it would fade badly as they've stated everyone knows then there should have been a notice to that effect fixed to the helmet'. I mean FFS it's a motorcycle helmet - it gets used in the sun!

But back to the waterproof jackets... as for how it's being used, it's being used on a motorcycle, just as it's being sold to be used, as a waterproof item of clothing. We're not talking physical damage here from it being used on enduro riding and branches damaging the jacket - we're talking about seepage through the various membrane or joints in it. That is unacceptable.

Nope disagree on most of that actually.

[Max Preload]

Nope disagree on most of that actually.

That's all fine and dandy, but the CGA doesn't hold your view. I know which one I'd back on winning.

[Sidewinder]

Not sure what planet your from dude,,,but i have been back to the friggin shop and i didn't come here to bitch. I came here to see if they really are worth the money ya pay for them.
If you find it a bit difficult to fatham that then basically i couldn't give a tin of cold dog crap what you got to say.
Take a couple more prozac and crawl back in ya corner...

leave this man alone or the mormon few will deal to you!

[Quasievil]

That's all fine and dandy, but the CGA doesn't hold your view. I know which one I'd back on winning.

Err yes it does after 3-5 years you would get zero remedy on any item of clothing, wont matter if its a pair of levis or a motorcycle jacket., and if some weird stupid mediator did hold the supplier accountable after 3-5 years it would be a pro rata basis, meaning that three years of use was gained so only a partial remedy would be provided.

3-5 years is a reasonable period of time for an item of clothing.


However in the case of QUASiMOTO any issues we fix and fix instantly and dont find ourselves in a situation like this.

[Sparky Bills]

Have you washed the jacket at all??
SOmetimes after time the membrane pores can get blocked and stop working right.
There is a product called Sport Wash which is fantastic for this situation.
Give it a go. Whats the worst that will happen?
Any good bike shop will be able to get this product from Dold Industries in Hamilton. ( They are a wholesaler so wont sell to public)

Ive had my Alpinestars RK-5 Goretex jacket for a year and a half now and am yet to have ONE SINGLE DROP come through. I mean not a drop!
I have never been soooo impressed with a jacket before.
Food for thought either way.

[Max Preload]

I'd make the call that any referee at the Disputes Tribunal would agree with me that a reasonable period is 3-5 years


I would tell the tribunal to stick up there arse if they expected me to warranty an item after 3+ years.
<snip>
But 3 years lol no way...


...after 3-5 years you would get zero remedy on any item of clothing, wont matter if its a pair of levis or a motorcycle jacket, and if some weird stupid mediator did hold the supplier accountable after 3-5 years it would be a pro rata basis, meaning that three years of use was gained so only a partial remedy would be provided.

3-5 years is a reasonable period of time for an item of clothing.

I wish you'd make up your mind. If you're going to try and argue you need to take a contrary view to the person with whom your are attempting to argue and stick with it. :rofl:

[cs363]

If it's sold as (and stated on attached labels etc) as being 100% waterproof then it damn well should be, barring any mis-treatment by the owner that may compromise the waterproofing.
Sparky Bills is on the money with that Sport Wash product - it's the shiz for high tech garments. Also, spraying textile garments with a product like the Silicone spray from the same company (it's all from the folks who make Sno Seal) is actually recommended by most manufacturers as it helps repel water from the outer surface, making the membrane's job easier. As long as you use a product intended for this purpose it categorically will not harm the membrane.
What will harm it on the other hand is washing it in normal household laundry detergent (with the exception of Lux flakes as that is pure soap) as that will build up and block the pores in the membrane (just take a look at the crap that builds up in your washing machine for an idea on how that works..)
Also excessively dirty garments if left will eventually damage the membrane via abrasion.

If you buy cheap ass gear, then you get what you pay for and it's a hit or miss affair as to whether they will actually be waterproof. But if you buy good top end gear like Alpinestars/Dainese/BMW etc with genuine Gore-Tex membranes then they will keep you dry -period. Gore-tex is guaranteed by its maker for five years independent of the actual brand of the gear. These companies often offer their own brands of membrane gear which are usually very comparable to Gore-Tex (though nothing is quite as good as the original), for instance I have Alpinestars Dry Star gear and it's awesome, not a drop of water gets through.

On the CGA, the basis of that is that the gear should last and work as intended for a fair and reasonable period - that's where the small claims tribunal comes in as some folks have difficulty discerning what fair and reasonable actually is. For instance a motorcycle courier who uses his gear 5+ days a week in all weathers and perhaps doesn't keep it clean and maintained as above, might expect say, 2 years of continuous use as being fair and reasonable whereas an occasional weekend rider would easily double this time period especially if the gear was looked after correctly.

Don't quote me on these figures, they are representative only but should give you some idea.

[mv.senna]

Hi Grubber -
I totally sympathise with you....I lost count of how many times "dri-rider" or similar branded theoretically waterproof textile gear let me down over the years...in the rain, skating down the road head first, and they did nothin for my figure either :doh:

....Then, about 3 yrs ago I got a shift textile moto-r jacket, and it absolutely rocks - best armour, warm lining etc.. I've ridden in pissing rain the distance of tga to akl and only got slightly damp around the collar and cuffs...(of the jacket). I no longer bother with (textile) trousers, as I found that the bottom half of my leather 2pc (that wd be the pants) keep me drier than the fkn waterproof textile trousers ever did...apart from the occasions where i'm surrounded by hot guys on hot sprot bikes (mv's especially lol). :bleh:

[Max Preload]

If it's sold as (and stated on attached labels etc) as being 100% waterproof then it damn well should be, barring any mis-treatment by the owner that may compromise the waterproofing.

Exactly. If the claims as to suitability for the stated purpose can't be met, that needs remedying.


On the CGA, the basis of that is that the gear should last and work as intended for a fair and reasonable period - that's where the small claims tribunal comes in as some folks have difficulty discerning what fair and reasonable actually is. For instance a motorcycle courier who uses his gear 5+ days a week in all weathers and perhaps doesn't keep it clean and maintained as above, might expect say, 2 years of continuous use as being fair and reasonable whereas an occasional weekend rider would easily double this time period especially if the gear was looked after correctly.

Don't quote me on these figures, they are representative only but should give you some idea.

In the couriers case he wouldn't actually be covered by the CGA anyhow as it's business use, which is specifically excluded from the CGA. At least it is if he is honest.

While I sympathise with the businesses in terms of the far reaching implications of the CGA (especially when they're buying from an importer/distributor who just wants to pedal what they can get hold of at maximum profit) I also have much sympathy for the end user too spending his hard earned cash purchasing motorcycle gear touted as 'waterproof' only to find it leaks 13 months down the track in the first downpour they've gone out in when the theoretical warranty has expired. There are many unscrupulous traders happy to say 'you're paying for backup and support' and then offer none when there's a problem that in reality is fair and reasonable for the consumer to assume they'll remedy. At the end of the day the consumer just wants the promises made to be honoured for a 'reasonable time'. There's a degree of good faith between retailers and consumers and the CGA only comes into force when that is broken.

[Quasievil]

I wish you'd make up your mind. If you're going to try and argue you need to take a contrary view to the person with whom your are attempting to argue and stick with it. :rofl:

I think you know what I mean, a term of 3-5 years is a reasonable durability time frame for an item of clothing in that I doubt you would have a successful claim against the supplier of the article after such a term, in fact I know you wouldnt have a successful claim.

But congrats on your soap box moment, but you knew what I was trying to say.

[Quasievil]

his hard earned cash purchasing motorcycle gear touted as 'waterproof' only to find it leaks 13 months down the track

What happened to the 3-5 years.

:yawn:

[Max Preload]

What happened to the 3-5 years.

:yawn:

I thought you'd realise I was referring to your worthless position of 12 months warranty.

[Max Preload]

3-5 years is a reasonable period of time for an item of clothing.

I happen to at this moment be wearing a polar fleece that is 11 years old and it's worn a LOT - like almost every day in winter.

[Ragingrob]

I happen to at this moment be wearing a polar fleece that is 11 years old and it's worn a LOT - like almost every day in winter.

Um, well done?

My waterproof jacket has yet to let any rain in even though it was only 160 bucks. Heck, my quasimoto leather jacket only lets the slightest of water in on the rainiest of rides even though it's not supposedly 'waterproof'.

I agree that if I buy a product claiming something like 100% waterproof then it should be 100% waterproof and that's that. This is very different to expecting that same product to be still at it's potential 2 or 3 years down the track. Shit wears out. It'll wear out faster or slower depending on use and treatment.

Computers wear out within a few years, slow down etc etc, even though omg I'm only using it for what it's intended for, computing...stuff. Gosh if only I could go get a replacement computer every 3 years cause it's not doing what it did when I bought it.

You buy a bike that does 0-100 in 3 seconds flat (stated by manufacturer), in 5 years if it only does 0-100 in 3.5 seconds are you gonna take it back and complain?

[Sparky Bills]

I thought you'd realise I was referring to your worthless position of 12 months warranty.



Are you kidding me!?
How long should the warranty go for since you seem to know soooo much about it...
5-10 years??

[Max Preload]

Um, well done?

Perhaps well done the manufacturers for producing a garment that lived up to all the reasonable expectations of the consumer and much much more. That's clearly a rareity these days.


My waterproof jacket has yet to let any rain in even though it was only 160 bucks. Heck, my quasimoto leather jacket only lets the slightest of water in on the rainiest of rides even though it's not supposedly 'waterproof'.

You mean it's doing what it claimed to? Personally I don't give a shit if a waterproof jacket cost $160 or $500. If it was claimed to be waterproof then that's what it should be. Expectations for how long it should remain that way would certainly vary though. Maybe 3 years for the $160 one and 5 years for the $500 one.


I agree that if I buy a product claiming something like 100% waterproof then it should be 100% waterproof and that's that. This is very different to expecting that same product to be still at it's potential 2 or 3 years down the track. Shit wears out. It'll wear out faster or slower depending on use and treatment.

Wears out or simply falls to bits? And again that would depend on how much one paid for it...


Computers wear out within a few years, slow down etc etc, even though omg I'm only using it for what it's intended for, computing...stuff. Gosh if only I could go get a replacement computer every 3 years cause it's not doing what it did when I bought it.

I bet it still does everything it did when you bought it at the same speed if you return it to it's original configuration (software and hardware). Not many people modify clothing.


You buy a bike that does 0-100 in 3 seconds flat (stated by manufacturer), in 5 years if it only does 0-100 in 3.5 seconds are you gonna take it back and complain?

There are far more variables and unknowns in that particular scenario than come into play when waterproof clothing ceases to be waterproof.

[Ragingrob]

Perhaps well done the manufacturers for producing a garment that lived up to all the reasonable expectations of the consumer and much much more. That's clearly a rareity these days.

I'm pretty sure that making a polar fleece which will still be able to be worn in 11 years is slightly more simple than making a 100% waterproof jacket that will endure rain hail and sunshine at 100kph that will last the same amount of time.

But yes, we all know that quality isn't valued as much as in was back in the day.


I bet it still does everything it did when you bought it at the same speed if you return it to it's original configuration (software and hardware). Not many people modify clothing.

Well I bet if you return the waterproof jacket to it's original configuration (stitching, membrane, fabric, sealant) then it will do everything it did when you bought it.


There are far more variables and unknowns in that particular scenario than come into play when waterproof clothing ceases to be waterproof.

Really? I suppose there are a few. But hey, if a $500 jacket should be in perfect as new condition in 5 years, then surely a $20,000 bike should maintain it's top specs all by itself too.

[Quasievil]

I thought you'd realise I was referring to your worthless position of 12 months warranty.

Okay so when customers ask about the warranty I should say, I dont have one refer to the CGA lol yeah good one, you obviously have no clue. every customer requires a warranty position to be announced, its a warranty contract between the customer and the supplier, one which WILL offer that customer some remedy before needing to take it further if needed to at all, its part of the basis of the sale process.
examples
A/if you buy a item and the retailer says two weeks warranty only what does that tell you ??
B/ if you buy an item and the retailer says 12 month warranty, what does that tell you ??

the retailer is giving you a warranty based on his level of service and what you can expect from HIM if there is a problem.

[ital916]

Come on guys, what resonable sane person would expect after five years for a jacket to be exactly like it was at the beginning. When purchasing a motorcycle jacket I basically expect it to last at least a year with hard everyday use. As for people saying this brand sucks and that one rocks. If we dig deep enough in threads you'll find a large variety of brands that have failed one person and been perfect for another.

Like I said originally, my view on the topic. If i ride in torrential rain I'm not gonna cry if the jacket leaks a little. If I get to my destination 75% dry thats fucking brilliant.

It is an amazing trait of many (not all) motorcyclists to want wonder gear for the least amount of money. You want good cheap rain protection, buy a jacket and put a rain coat on top of it. :Oops: that would be too easy.

I agree 100% with quasis argument through this thread.

[MaxB]

If you buy cheap ass gear, then you get what you pay for and it's a hit or miss affair as to whether they will actually be waterproof. But if you buy good top end gear like Alpinestars/Dainese/BMW etc with genuine Gore-Tex membranes then they will keep you dry -period.



Not always so. I had a big brand Italian jacket whose neck fitting crapped out after a few months. I ended up paying to get it modified. Not nice on a grand plus jacket.

In my experience I don't think there is a great difference between a $1200 and a $600 jacket but in general a $600+ jacket is light years away from a $200 jacket.

With upmarket gear I find that the fit and finish is better eg it stays more comfortable for longer, seals down against the elements, has pockets that stay dry etc. Agree that Gore-Tex is pretty much the ultimate.

[cs363]

Not always so. I had a big brand Italian jacket whose neck fitting crapped out after a few months. I ended up paying to get it modified. Not nice on a grand plus jacket.

In my experience I don't think there is a great difference between a $1200 and a $600 jacket but in general a $600+ jacket is light years away from a $200 jacket.

With upmarket gear I find that the fit and finish is better eg it stays more comfortable for longer, seals down against the elements, has pockets that stay dry etc. Agree that Gore-Tex is pretty much the ultimate.


If you have paid to fix a 'big brand Italian jacket whose neck fitting crapped out after a few months' and assuming that this was actually the case -that it 'just crapped out' then more fool you. That as you describe it is a plain and simple warranty issue.
All I can take from that is either you aren't being completely honest, or your dealer has let you down regarding honouring not only the warranty but the CGA.
And remember that under the CGA it is actually up to the dealer to sort it rather than the wholesaler/manufacturer. It is then up to the dealer to sort it with the wholesaler/manufacturer.

[cs363]

In the couriers case he wouldn't actually be covered by the CGA anyhow as it's business use, which is specifically excluded from the CGA. At least it is if he is honest.

The case I outlined was (if you had read it in context) purely theoretical and besides, when it comes to warranty claims, much like insurance claims the percentage of 100% honest claims are very small....
If I had a dollar for every item that gets returned for warranty thats 'only be used two times'......yeah, right.

[Duke girl]

For your information AJ I rode from Napier to Waikanae in the rain when I picked up the Ninja from Gisborne so Yes I can ride in the rain and it doesnt bother me as a real rider will ride in the wet and dry. So you have even learnt more about me now. You can put that into your book of valuable information and everytime it rains and your sitting at home pondering around because you wont ride in the rain you can think of me out there in it ok?.:finger::bash::hug:

[mouldy]

I ride every day in all sorts of weather and after 26 years of autocycling I have come to the conclusion that all waterproof membrane gear leaks sooner or later and also having an outer shell holding a gallon of water sucks too . Regularly waxed leather seems to be as waterproof as long as you get plenty of wax in the seam . That said my Shift Quattro which is 3 years old does not leak yet , both pairs of Spyke pants now leak through the crotch where the membranes seams split and my oxtar boots don,t leak either .

[xr-rider]

For your information AJ I rode from Napier to Waikanae in the rain when I picked up the Ninja from Gisborne so Yes I can ride in the rain and it doesnt bother me as a real rider will ride in the wet and dry.

did you have a choice then though or did you have to ride it?

[ital916]

For your information AJ I rode from Napier to Waikanae in the rain when I picked up the Ninja from Gisborne so Yes I can ride in the rain and it doesnt bother me as a real rider will ride in the wet and dry. So you have even learnt more about me now. You can put that into your book of valuable information and everytime it rains and your sitting at home pondering around because you wont ride in the rain you can think of me out there in it ok?.:finger::bash::hug:

Haha, I love people trying to define a real rider. Duke girl the notion is kinda absurd. Who makes up the definition of a real rider. We could taker it further and say a real rider is one that basically lives on their motorcycle and abandons all non motorcycling aspects of their life.

Everyone has their own way of defining their riding character, some refuse to ride in rain or poor weather as it can take the enjoyment factor away etc. It is great that you can ride in rain or shine but again it would be foolish to judge that as being a real rider. I reckon that is a saying to which there can be no real definition.

Nice bike by the way.....mmm sexy :2thumbsup

[freddy72]

I Brought cheap spool pants a jacket about a year ago now and is used almost daily in all weather conditions and have only been a little bit wet on my forearms from water seeping up from my wrists. In terms of buying the gear I was told that no gear will be 100% water proof no matter what the manufacturer claims as water will eventually get in around your neck, wrists or from the zip in the front if you are in the rain long enough.

[Max Preload]

I'm pretty sure that making a polar fleece which will still be able to be worn in 11 years is slightly more simple than making a 100% waterproof jacket that will endure rain hail and sunshine at 100kph that will last the same amount of time.

Of course it is, but the polar fleece cost $75 reflecting the simplicity of manufacture.


Well I bet if you return the waterproof jacket to it's original configuration (stitching, membrane, fabric, sealant) then it will do everything it did when you bought it.

Certainly, but with materials or chosen methods of construction that are inferior it will deteriorate much faster and no be repairable.


Really? I suppose there are a few. But hey, if a $500 jacket should be in perfect as new condition in 5 years, then surely a $20,000 bike should maintain it's top specs all by itself too.

Where have I or anyone else said that anything should be expected to last if neglected i.e. not maintained in the expectancy that it will maintain itself. And the purchase cost comes down to complexity of manufacture again.


Okay so when customers ask about the warranty I should say, I dont have one refer to the CGA lol yeah good one, you obviously have no clue. every customer requires a warranty position to be announced, its a warranty contract between the customer and the supplier, one which WILL offer that customer some remedy before needing to take it further if needed to at all, its part of the basis of the sale process.
examples
A/if you buy a item and the retailer says two weeks warranty only what does that tell you ??
B/ if you buy an item and the retailer says 12 month warranty, what does that tell you ??

the retailer is giving you a warranty based on his level of service and what you can expect from HIM if there is a problem.

I have no clue? Whatever. Learn to read what's actually written, not what you think is written... here it is again...

I thought you'd realise I was referring to your worthless position of 12 months warranty.
The reason your position of 12 months warranty is worthless is because you seem to think that stating it absolves you from all responsibility for any issues beyond that magic date. It does not.

Here's an example of someone who actually doesn't have a clue:


QUASiMOTO Ltd is not liable for any direct, indirect, special, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use, or the inability to use, the products on this site. This includes but is not limited to the loss of data or loss of profit, even if QUASiMOTO Ltd was advised of the possibility of such damages. (http://www.quasimoto.co.nz/info/quasimoto-policies)
which is in direct contradiction to the provisions of the CGA, namely clause 18(4) (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0091/latest/DLM312823.html) which states:

In addition to the remedies set out in subsection (2) and subsection (3) of this section, the consumer may obtain from the supplier damages for any loss or damage to the consumer resulting from the failure (other than loss or damage through reduction in value of the goods) which was reasonably foreseeable as liable to result from the failure..

[Quasievil]

Okay Smart arse, our lawyer obviously got it all wrong. Please tell us with your high wisdom and legal knowledge what our and everyone elses warranty offer should state ?

lets hear it?

what do we say to customers wanting a warranty?

Not forgeting the arguement you have is a waterproof Jacket failing after 3-5 years will be covered by the CGA which I argue it wont be as a 3-5 year period would be considered as a reasonable life expectancy for a article of clothing.

[Ragingrob]

Okay Smart arse, our lawyer obviously got it all wrong. Please tell us with your high wisdom and legal knowledge what our and everyone elses warranty offer should state ?

lets hear it?

what do we say to customers wanting a warranty?

Not forgeting the arguement you have is a waterproof Jacket failing after 3-5 years will be covered by the CGA which I argue it wont be as a 3-5 year period would be considered as a reasonable life expectancy for a article of clothing.

All I know is that if anything outta the ordinary happens with my Quasi gear, Paula an Brett are all too willing to fix it for me or pay out to get it fixed.

:clap: That's all I need from a retailer.

[Max Preload]

Okay Smart arse, our lawyer obviously got it all wrong. Please tell us with your high wisdom and legal knowledge what our and everyone elses warranty offer should state ?

lets hear it?

what do we say to customers wanting a warranty?.

Your toys seem to be flying out of your cot at an alarming rate. Calm the fuck down. Tell them what you want, just like most retailers - most people are ignorant of their rights - that's why the likes of Noel Leemings and Co can sell extended warranties to so many gullible gimps. But if I were you, I'd simply state that your goods carry a 12-month manufacturers warranty against defective workmanship and materials and any problems arising from claims made as to suitability for the purpose for which they are sold but beyond that the purchaser may have rights afforded them by the provisions of the CGA if the products are not abused.


Not forgeting the arguement you have is a waterproof Jacket failing after 3-5 years will be covered by the CGA which I argue it wont be as a 3-5 year period would be considered as a reasonable life expectancy for a article of clothing.

I would consider 3-5 years, depending on price paid, to be fair a reasonable use period for a jacket, used in a manner typical of an average motorcyclist, to remain waterproof if it was claimed it was waterproof when purchased. It's called durability and fitness for the purpose. I never said anything about after the 3-5 years - I mean withing 3-5 years of purchase one would have a reasonable expectation based on a number of factors, that it would remain waterproof.


All I know is that if anything outta the ordinary happens with my Quasi gear, Paula an Brett are all too willing to fix it for me or pay out to get it fixed.

:clap: That's all I need from a retailer.

Good on ya. How about the rest of the nation who aren't acquainted with them?

[Ragingrob]

Good on ya. How about the rest of the nation who aren't acquainted with them?

Acquainted? They're the seller, I'm the buyer, acquaintance made.

I'm just saying that it's a lot easier dealings through smaller companies where the people are actually seen and feel responsible. Unlike revit etc where their items are sold through hundreds of shops, it's easy for them not to care. All you get is the shop trying to move the blame on but not doing anything about it afterwards.

[Quasievil]

Your toys seem to be flying out of your cot at an alarming rate. Calm the fuck down.

err youre kidding right ? take more than this to get me going lol

[ital916]

:corn::corn::corn:

It seems this entire ongoing argument is based solely upon the time frame that people think items should last. I don't think price can be used as a factor for citing how long something should last, but the purpose for which that item is created. A motorcycle jacket through everyday use takes a beating, it's constantly getting wet, dirty, drying, wet, getting wet at high velocities, getting thrown around, trodd on, falling off crap,getting even dirtier etc.

To think a motorcycle jacket will last 3-5 years is a bit of wishful thinking but thats just me.

Now we must also remember if something does break after the one year warranty is up that doesn't give us the right to go barging back to the dealer saying it is a crap product.

Anyway don't mind me, you two can carry on. How has your day been rob? haha.

[Hitcher]

If I bought a Gore-Tex jacket that failed within six months of purchase, I would be looking for some sort of warranty recompense. After that date I would have no expectations of the manufacturer/distributor but would be extremely stoked if they replaced a failed garment.

Normal wear and tear and all that.

[Quasievil]

Your toys seem to be flying out of your cot at an alarming rate. Calm the fuck down. Tell them what you want, just like most retailers - most people are ignorant of their rights - that's why the likes of Noel Leemings and Co can sell extended warranties to so many gullible gimps. But if I were you, I'd simply state that your goods carry a 12-month manufacturers warranty against defective workmanship and materials and any problems arising from claims made as to suitability for the purpose for which they are sold but beyond that the purchaser may have rights afforded them by the provisions of the CGA if the products are not abused.



I would consider 3-5 years, depending on price paid, to be fair a reasonable use period for a jacket, used in a manner typical of an average motorcyclist, to remain waterproof if it was claimed it was waterproof when purchased. It's called durability and fitness for the purpose. I never said anything about after the 3-5 years - I mean withing 3-5 years of purchase one would have a reasonable expectation based on a number of factors, that it would remain waterproof.



Good on ya. How about the rest of the nation who aren't acquainted with them?

This is what we have currently, we reference the CGA, as per our lawyer, very similar to alot of other statements also I think. But in displaying the below we abide more so as to whats fair and have never had an issue which resulted in anyone having to get all legal on us.
I wouldnt accept a full claim over 3 years though, and neither would ANY retailer. But I would listen and make the customer as happy as possible

Warranties

QUASiMOTO Ltd gives no express guarantees unless they are in writing. Unless the goods are acquired for business purposes, QUASiMOTO Ltd will repair or replace any goods which fail to comply with any guarantee contained in the Consumer Guarantees Act 1993. Nothing on this site is to be construed as a recommendation to use any particular product.
You must notify us immediately if any issue arises, delayed action in notifying us which results in further damage to any garment or product will not be covered by us.
Limitation of Liability

QUASiMOTO Ltd is not liable for any direct, indirect, special, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use, or the inability to use, the products on this site. This includes but is not limited to the loss of data or loss of profit, even if QUASiMOTO Ltd was advised of the possibility of such damages.

[Taz]

My clover jacket has had it's 10th birthday and hasn't leaked yet. Not even during last years GC. Almost time for a new one though.

[MaxB]

If you have paid to fix a 'big brand Italian jacket whose neck fitting crapped out after a few months' and assuming that this was actually the case -that it 'just crapped out' then more fool you. That as you describe it is a plain and simple warranty issue.
All I can take from that is either you aren't being completely honest, or your dealer has let you down regarding honouring not only the warranty but the CGA.
And remember that under the CGA it is actually up to the dealer to sort it rather than the wholesaler/manufacturer. It is then up to the dealer to sort it with the wholesaler/manufacturer.

The jacket was 14 months old when it broke. It had a years warranty. It had less than 2000ks of use over a 3-month summer period, since I had other gear. The dealer had changed hands in the meantine and I only had the eftpos stub, not a receipt. I did not get a refund. So I had a choice: bitch and moan to the authorities or do something about it and make alterations to the neck to get the jacket I had always wanted. I chose to fix it.

I'm not mentioning the brand or dealer 'cos I have had other similar stuff and it has been fine, plus I'm not getting into a brand war.