November 8th - Now you know when not to vote Labour.

[MisterD]

Toss 'em out on their useless arses.

Harold articule. (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10531851)

[bomma]

vote of no confidence....:oi-grr:

[MisterD]

Here's a song for you Hulun.

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[Quasievil]

Damn fucking right, did she say crime was down ??? WTF how did they shuffle the stats around to get that?

Fucking useless hopeless brainless stupid Labour and their tosser stupid mates like the greens have GOT to go.

Alternatives?? fuck knows !!

[Pussy]

Great!! Only another 8 weeks of those twats in charge :woohoo:

[Colapop]

"Miss Clark used her announcement at the Beehive this afternoon to contrast Labour and National, saying the election would be about which party deserved the trust of voters" (from "Stuff")

She's kidding right?? Labour aligned with Winston "The Little Liar" Peters and we should trust either of them? Don't kid yourself that National is any better.

[The Pastor]

alright, the 2008 kb election party is now on the 8th!

register here!

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=1721&day=2008-11-8&c=1

[Tank]

Does anyone here believe that Labour will get back in?

The only thing worse will be Labour getting back in with Winston holding the balance of power (a fucken again).

[James Deuce]

From my perspective, life will get a lot worse under National.

[rachprice]

bastards had to go spoil my birthday! :2guns:

[Tank]

bastards had to go spoil my birthday! :2guns:

Its becase Labour hates you.

BTW - Thats my brothers birthday as well.

[Trudes]

We'll be in Australia.... do we vote when we get back? What happens?

[Pussy]

We'll be in Australia.... do we vote when we get back? What happens?

Before you go.... special vote

[Trudes]

Before you go.... special vote

How do I organise that? Can I vote on-line?? Now that would be handy!

[Maha]

Better the Devil you know I say!.....:niceone:
No doubt its the end for Labour but, lets check back on this thread in 12 months and listen to the National beaters.
When was the Government that had the whole country (or even 1/2 the country) pleased with everything they did?

[Murray]

From my perspective, life will get a lot worse under National.

Are you on a benefit?????

[Pussy]

How do I organise that? Can I vote on-line?? Now that would be handy!
Not too sure, Trudes. Perhaps the enrollment/electorate people may have the gen. I've only ever cast a special vote while I've been in the country, but out of the electorate

[Pussy]

How many days before the election will you be shooting through, Trudes? Hopefully someone who definitely knows the answer about where to go will chip in....

[Trudes]

Thanks Pussy. :)
We leave on the 5th, I'll have a look on the electoral office website and see what the story is.
Edit: Just done this, seems I can make an advance vote before we go, sweet.

[James Deuce]

Are you on a benefit?????
And if I was?

[Quasievil]

Just wait you Labour lovers until you buy a new Bike and see a $2000 Emission Tax on top of the price...........thats to reduce the Global warming impact lol yeah right. The Biggest CON of the modern world is the Global warming debarcle as well as the B.S Taxes being introduced under stupid little schemes like the emissions trading legislation, LABOUR has done us all over big time by signing us all up for it.

This will set NZ back years and years and years and will add even more cost to everything you buy...everything.

What has labour done exactly thats got us ahead ??? I know the answer fuck all, Health is fucked, Law n Order is fucked, 9 Years on and same shit

Im a bit Mad with these fucking stupid people

[James Deuce]

I'm no "Labour Lover" but I will be worse off under National.

[NighthawkNZ]

How do I organise that? Can I vote on-line?? Now that would be handy!


you have to be spethal

[Quasievil]

Oh and I reckon that anyone who has been on any kind of benefit for more than 6 months shouldnt be allowed to Vote, on the basis they dont contribute to the economy , rather they suckle on it. that way all of the fucking bludgers wont be able to continue dragging the country down looking after their own lazy bludging self interests.

Im going to form a party called the, world according to Quasi party !!:apint:

[tzrmike]

Kill 'em all.

[Trudes]

Kill 'em all.

Good song that.

[hospitalfood]

well.....i work hard for my money, self employed etc, in theory i will be better off with the nats in.

but i have a brain so labour gets my vote.

[Quasievil]

well.....i work hard for my money, self employed etc, in theory i will be better off with the nats in.

but i have a brain so labour gets my vote.

LOL that makes sence........not, and is completely contaray to your claim.

[Ixion]

How do I organise that? Can I vote on-line?? Now that would be handy!

No, you can't vote on line. This is the gubbermint they are still struggling with the pain of abandoning the quill pen. You can vote before you go, contact the electoral officer for a list of special voting booths. Or, in Australia by going into the NZ High Commission (I think that's what it's called) . Anyway a call to the Electoral Officer will explain it all. Vote early, and vote often.

[Winston001]

I'm speechless with astonishment that Hulen Clark could seriously kick off Labour's election campaign by saying it will be about "TRUST".

I don't like her but never thought she was stupid. :doh: Doesn't she get it? The general population don't trust any politicians. It's more a matter of which party people feel will be the least untrustworthy. Focusing on trust is looney given the Peters saga which Labour is tied to, like it or not.

[Swoop]

For the past two years it has been next to impossible to find anyone who would claim to have voted for the Looney Labourite Sect.

All of a sudden there seems to be an abundance of them around here.



:spanking:

[Pussy]

For the past two years it has been next to impossible to find anyone who would claim to have voted for the Looney Labourite Sect.

All of a sudden there seems to be an abundance of them around here.



:spanking:

Not I, Swoop... never have, never will

[SPman]

I'm no "Labour Lover" but I will be worse off under National.
Most ordinary people will be worse off under National. Not that they'd dare admit it though, in the "how fast can we get rid of Helen" frenzy......

Labour have outstayed their welcome and have "3 term arrogance", National are as untrustworthy as any neo-con organisation around, NZ First will hopefully go down with Winnie, The Greens are seen as too extreme by a lot of people, ACT are like National only worse.......I'd say the voting public is shafted!

[Trudes]

Bring back the McGillicuddy's :banana:
I think I may tick the leaf (http://www.alcp.org.nz/)this year.

[Swoop]

When will we see the first election billboards going up???

I like election time. You can get HEAPS of FREE lengths of 100x50 treated pine.:2thumbsup

[oldrider]

There are many times more stupid people in New Zealand than there are "thinking" people, so on this basis I predict:

Government: Any old mix with, Labour, of Anderton, Winston first, Greens, Dunn, or Maori. Take your pick.

Opposition: National and any rejects from above mixture.

Missing in action: Rodney Hide and ACT.

Casualties: Democracy and freedom of the individual.

Consequences: Record numbers of people leaving the country over the next three years.

Largest group to benefit: Criminals and lawyers.

Helen is so honest and Labour has done so much and "you can't trust Key", I know this because Helen has just told me so today! :yes:

I am so happy for my grandchildren and their future in this our "freeland". :brick: Highly sceptical, :sick: John.

[Winston001]

There are many times more stupid people in New Zealand than there are "thinking" people, so on this basis I predict:

Government: Any old mix with, Labour, of Anderton, Winston first, Greens, Dunn, or Maori. Take your pick.

Crikey hope not. :oi-grr: I think Labour won't get enough seats.



Missing in action: Rodney Hide and ACT. Yes sadly you could be right although Hide is an effective elortorate MP which might save ACT.



Consequences:Record numbers of people leaving the country over the next three years.

Yep..sigh. I'd join them but career, children, ano-domini yadda yadda.....


Largest group to benefit:Criminals and lawyers.

So, its not all bad then :D

[Niterider]

I read ACT and Libertarian policy.
Being a fairly new import to NZ, why does Lib not feature?:wait:
What is the downside on voting ACT?:scratch:

[Jerry74]

They are all equally hopeless !!!!!

How many of us will be in Aussie this time next year ??

[Swoop]

What is the downside on voting ACT?:scratch:
None whatsoever.
A sensible vote, rather than wasting it on "single issue" parties like the cannabis party...
Also, you get to annoy a local KB redneck.

I'm going to use all of my six votes on ACT this year!!!

[Niterider]

None whatsoever.
A sensible vote, rather than wasting it on "single issue" parties like the cannabis party...
Also, you get to annoy a local KB redneck.

I'm going to use all of my six votes on ACT this year!!!

Are you talking of 3 x local and 3 x Parliament votes?

[trustme]

I think Rodders will be back , National won't try too hard in Epsom & the locals may well keep him in, as Ohariu do with Peter Dunne
I just hope like hell we finally see the back of Luigi but he only needs the Nannas for his 5 %

[Winston001]

I read ACT and Libertarian policy.

Being a fairly new import to NZ, why does Lib not feature?:wait:

What is the downside on voting ACT?:scratch:

I'm not sure why the Libertarians don't get much traction - maybe not enough journalists are sympathetic to their ideas.

ACT - totally polarise people and are viewed as BIG BUSINESS = CAPITALISTS = BAD go-and-sit-in-the-corner types, by average Kiwis. The same Kiwis who want to sell their cars for more than they paid for them, expect their houses to double in value, and their employers to up their pay whether business is good or not.

The standard of political and economic debate in NZ is at kindergarten level. Ixion excepted. :D

[Niterider]

I'm not sure why the Libertarians don't get much traction - maybe not enough journalists are sympathetic to their ideas.

Ditto.


ACT - totally polarise people and are viewed as BIG BUSINESS = CAPITALISTS = BAD go-and-sit-in-the-corner types, by average Kiwis. The same Kiwis who want to sell their cars for more than they paid for them, expect their houses to double in value, and their employers to up their pay whether business is good or not.

Any idea why this Big Bad Business view or do we just have too many brainless people left in Kiwiland?:doh:

[Ocean1]

Any idea why this Big Bad Business view or do we just have too many brainless people left in Kiwiland?:doh:

The thickening end of the wedge started by: Make NZ unatractive for productive people. They all either stop being productive or fuck off to do it somewhere else.

Leaving...

[oldrider]

I read ACT and Libertarian policy.
Being a fairly new import to NZ, why does Lib not feature?:wait:
What is the downside on voting ACT?:scratch:

Not "everybody" in NZ is stupid, just the majority "socialist population".

The only downside in voting ACT or Libertarianz is, it just puts you in the polical minority in NZ.

Criminals and lawyers won't leave this country.

Crime is a growth industry, lawyers feed off it, taxpayers finance it and thousands of bureaucrats service it.

If that's not bad enough, take a look at the justice system, education, health.......etc, etc etc. :shifty:

Never mind, Helen said today that you can trust her and her cronies to continue the good work.

She also said to watch out for that untrustworthy flip flop artist John Key and the National party!......Thank you for your wise council Helen. :confused: John.

[Winston001]

Ditto.



Any idea why this Big Bad Business view or do we just have too many brainless people left in Kiwiland?:doh:

Plenty of decent people here, the problem is that we have become completely captured by the Welfare State. Originally it was a social democracy concept to protect the weak, the poor, and the indigent. It ballooned when under National in 1972 the Domestic Purposes Benefit was introduced.

Hard to argue against, but what was originally thought of as temporary, became a right, and a way of life. Today we have two generations of Kiwis who can't see the point of working hard or striking out to try for themselves.

OK, gross generalisations and the UK - indeed much of Europe, have had the same policies. But they seem to rise beyond it. Look at Britain - clothcap politics is strong but nevertheless following Thatchers policies, the POMs have thrived.

Maybe we are just too small-minded. My two cents.

[James Deuce]

.

OK, gross generalisations and the UK - indeed much of Europe, have had the same policies. But they seem to rise beyond it. Look at Britain - clothcap politics is strong but nevertheless following Thatchers policies, the POMs have thrived.

Maybe we are just too small-minded. My two cents.

Eh what?

"Unwed mothers" farm the UK's social welfare system to much greater effect than Kiwi women with that particular bent and start a great deal earlier. Vast hordes of homeless people roam about and huge suburbs with the population of Christchurch are ghettos in a number of cities over there I've spent time in. Just like NZ, bits of the UK thrive and bits wallow in everything that is wrong with urban and suburban culture and tradition. It's just more densely packed and way more parochial, even small-minded, than anywhere in NZ except West Auckland.

There's no way I'd be holding the UK up as an example to strive toward.

[Niterider]

Plenty of decent people here, the problem is that we have become completely captured by the Welfare State. Originally it was a social democracy concept to protect the weak, the poor, and the indigent. It ballooned when under National in 1972 the Domestic Purposes Benefit was introduced.

Hard to argue against, but what was originally thought of as temporary, became a right, and a way of life. Today we have two generations of Kiwis who can't see the point of working hard or striking out to try for themselves.

OK, gross generalisations and the UK - indeed much of Europe, have had the same policies. But they seem to rise beyond it. Look at Britain - clothcap politics is strong but nevertheless following Thatchers policies, the POMs have thrived.

Maybe we are just too small-minded. My two cents.

I get the idea that the beehive is leaning so far over to the left that 2 terms of libertarian- or at least ACT rule, will just get the hive to stand up straight again. It will definately get rid of most of the common crime like theft, murder (including boy racers using cars as weapons), rape etc.:ar15: or am I missing something?:wait:

[Winston001]

Eh what?

"Unwed mothers" farm the UK's social welfare system to much greater effect than Kiwi women with that particular bent and start a great deal earlier. Vast hordes of homeless people roam about and huge suburbs with the population of Christchurch are ghettos in a number of cities over there I've spent time in. Just like NZ, bits of the UK thrive and bits wallow in everything that is wrong with urban and suburban culture and tradition. It's just more densely packed and way more parochial, even small-minded, than anywhere in NZ except West Auckland.

There's no way I'd be holding the UK up as an example to strive toward.

Ok but disagree. Remember, the UK has 60 million people crammed into a country the same size as NZ. So they have 15X the population. Multiply South Auckland 15X, dot them around, and you'd have plenty of visible social problems here too.

Have a look at this: http://dataranking.com/table.cgi?LG=e&TP=ne03-2&RG=1&FL= It shows comparable purchasing power in the OECD countries. In other words, you can buy more with your wages. The UK is at 10 and rising over ten years. NZ by comparison is at 21 and hasn't moved in the same period.

The UK generally sits around 12 on most of the OECD figures and NZ around 23.

[Niterider]

The only downside in voting ACT or Libertarianz is, it just puts you in the polical minority in NZ.



Looking at the snap election poll : http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=80661 which might be a reasonable representation of the real thing?? Act is ahead of helen!! I think ACT has a good chance. Reason being many callers on Newstalkzb today moved from Labour to ACT and sounds like the Maori party is very popular even amongst the non-Maoris. They seem to like their leader's straightness, mannerism and honesty.

[aerobubb1]

I heard somewhere the comment COMMUNISM IN DISGUISE which I feel pretty much sums it up,

lets have a vote and go with minority!

[RiderInBlack]

well.....i work hard for my money, self employed etc, in theory i will be better off with the nats in.

but i have a brain so labour gets my vote.Having been self employed i don't think I would be better off with Nat. Not interested in the Country borrowing more just ta give tax cuts when we are heading for a recession. The only reason I would vote for Nat this time would be ta get one party in that doesn't need to deal with other parties ta have the majority in Parliament by voting with the "Sheep". As far as I am concerned Labour has done OK and would be happy ta have them in again. With a bit of luck Winnie First won't make the cut, so Helen won't have ta sell what sole she has left ta get in.
All Leaders are Lizards, but I have ta vote for a Lizard or the wrong Lizard gets in. So unless Nat shapes up, I voying Labour.

[Swoop]

Are you talking of 3 x local and 3 x Parliament votes?
Quite possibly...:whistle:

[James Deuce]

Ok but disagree. Remember, the UK has 60 million people crammed into a country the same size as NZ. So they have 15X the population. Multiply South Auckland 15X, dot them around, and you'd have plenty of visible social problems here too.

Have a look at this: http://dataranking.com/table.cgi?LG=e&TP=ne03-2&RG=1&FL= It shows comparable purchasing power in the OECD countries. In other words, you can buy more with your wages. The UK is at 10 and rising over ten years. NZ by comparison is at 21 and hasn't moved in the same period.

The UK generally sits around 12 on most of the OECD figures and NZ around 23.

You're talking about a different issue there.

New Zealand had an artificially high ranking on that table because we borrowed money at a rate comparable to the US over the last 5 years, for two decades. We're never going to get higher on that table. Quantity has a quality all its own. I wouldn't expect the UK to stay up there either.

However you were trying to state that the UK doesn't have the social welfare generated issues NZ does. It most certainly does and there is a lot more scope to make a lot more money out of the tax payer if you pop babies out. The basic standard of living in the UK is quite unpleasant unless you like rooting and drinking as a way of life and the housing drives me insane.

[Winston001]

However you were trying to state that the UK doesn't have the social welfare generated issues NZ does. It most certainly does and there is a lot more scope to make a lot more money out of the tax payer if you pop babies out. The basic standard of living in the UK is quite unpleasant unless you like rooting and drinking as a way of life and the housing drives me insane.

No argument with that. What I was saying is that despite a strong working-class left-wing ethic, the UK has successfully grown its economy. The purchasing power stats show that.

For some reason in NZ we still cling to the belief that profit is bad, employers are bad, personal wealth is bad. This instills a sense of envy, unfairness, jealousy, amongst the population to the extent that to aspire above average is crushed.

A business friend for many many years would not buy himself a 2nd hand Mercedes because he (rightly) feared that people would no longer support him - for doing too well.

In America - and I don't actually admire this, he'd buy a Merc in the hope that it would attract business. It seems kind of shallow, but more impoertantly, personal success is admired and celebrated. Even the Aussies do that.

[Robert Taylor]

No argument with that. What I was saying is that despite a strong working-class left-wing ethic, the UK has successfully grown its economy. The purchasing power stats show that.

For some reason in NZ we still cling to the belief that profit is bad, employers are bad, personal wealth is bad. This instills a sense of envy, unfairness, jealousy, amongst the population to the extent that to aspire above average is crushed.

A business friend for many many years would not buy himself a 2nd hand Mercedes because he (rightly) feared that people would no longer support him - for doing too well.

In America - and I don't actually admire this, he'd buy a Merc in the hope that it would attract business. It seems kind of shallow, but more impoertantly, personal success is admired and celebrated. Even the Aussies do that.

You have summed it up perfectly. And pointedly, a vote for Labour is a vote for the most corrupt and self serving Government in our history.

[portokiwi]

:(I just dont know who to vote for???

[Motig]

Well if anyone thinks voting for National is suddenly going to make employers generous enough to make our wages equivalent to Aussie, the're in for a rude shock if they get in. And tax cuts, dont make me laugh $10 to $16 a week if your lucky. Unfortunately theres 9 years people who have only known Labour as the Govt and have no idea how National stuffed the average worker/ pensioner when they were in. I also find it interesting that employers say wages cant go up until productivity does. Amazing how these same workers that ar'nt working hard enough here are so valued overseas. But anyway Vote Winston - just to piss National and their tame pitbull Rodney off :2guns:

[Swoop]

greens = more ridiculous taxes (carbon emissions, fart, "whatever") which will push inflation up dramatically.
labour = wasting 9 productive economic years when NZ could have done so much more... yet chose to bloat the bureaucratic gravy train with public servants who fail to serve the public. The result is that you fill in more paperwork, then wait substantially longer for your application.
Evidence? 1: The "health" system. 2: Local gubbinment. 3: Resource "management"...

[brendonjw]

bastards had to go spoil my birthday! :2guns:

Mine as well :girlfight:

[geoffm]

One of the good things about NZ is free entry to Oz - and it is also a weakness. There are around 450,000 kiwis in Oz at present, generally the ones we want in our country as they have the drive to do better and skills and work ethic to suit.
Think of what the voting demographics would be if they were all living in NZ instead?

My prediction - it is going to be closer than the polls suggest, as Labour will sleep with anyone to stay in power and they have more options. With the Maori seats, they have a natural advantage. Add that to all those civil servants and beneficiaries who know a gravy train station when they see one...
If Helen gets in, watch the Aussie Exodus become a flood.
If the Nats get in, they won't realistically be able to do anything doue to a tanking econaomy, and a huge voting bloc who cannot be upset, and a left wing media. They don't have th eballs to do what needs to be done - decimation of the bureaucrats (in the traditional Roman fashion) and serios cost reductions and accountability.

[Winston001]

Well if anyone thinks voting for National is suddenly going to make employers generous enough to make our wages equivalent to Aussie, the're in for a rude shock if they get in. And tax cuts, dont make me laugh $10 to $16 a week if your lucky. Unfortunately theres 9 years people who have only known Labour as the Govt and have no idea how National stuffed the average worker/ pensioner when they were in. I also find it interesting that employers say wages cant go up until productivity does. Amazing how these same workers that ar'nt working hard enough here are so valued overseas.

Thanks Motig for proving the point about envy and bitterness.

Australia has a much stronger union movement than here, yet production per worker is significantly higher - which is why wages are higher. The fundamental fact is that the boss has to make a profit before he can pass any of it on. In Oz, they do.

And don't fall for the "exporting minerals" explanation. The Oz economy only relies 25% on exports, most of the production and wealth is created inside the country. NZ by comparison relies on exports to a high level.

As for Kiwis going over there, they get easily absorbed into the work force but often they are people with skills. You don't hear of cleaners streaming off to Oz for the high life. But doctors, nurses, engineers - absolutely.

[MisterD]

Don't fucking get me started on the Watermelon party - ban this, ban that, tell me how to live my life and raise my family. Fuck. the. hell. off.

Anyway, a smile is called for:

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/trusts_002.jpg

[Jerry74]

I can't see things improving at all regardless who is the govt

[Ocean1]

NZ by comparison relies on exports to a high level...

As for Kiwis going over there, they get easily absorbed into the work force but often they are people with skills. You don't hear of cleaners streaming off to Oz for the high life. But doctors, nurses, engineers - absolutely.

Yup, our largest export sector.

Revenue?

Zero.

The world's biggest Polytech, with student loans encouraging graduates to fuck off and never come back.

And they never saw it coming, ffs with all the malace in the world you couldn't have devised a more damaging policy set.

What's left? B Ark losers collecting leaves against the shrinking economy.

We're doomed I tells ya.

[Bullitt]

I'm back...did anyone miss me <_<

My predictions are:

Labour will pull another blatant bribe aimed at students. Either a universal student allowance or writing off a significant portion of student loans. Although many people will see this for what it is there will be enough people with student loans who dont care about politics to vote for them. It'll piss off alot of people but those people had already decided not to vote for Labour anyway. Shortly after losing the election Hulun will announce shes taking up a role with the UN.

Key will continue to turn an unloseable election into a tight race due to constantly apoligising when he hasnt done anything wrong and adopting stupid labour policies. He will be next PM but only via a coalition with Act and the Maori Party.

Act will poll higher than they ever have before, easily getting 5% to become the third biggest party in parliament. This will principally be due to National adopting stupid labour policies forcing reasonable normal kiwis with no choice but to hope to Act for some sense. Theyre currently polling low but this is because all their voters will be busy working when the polls are conducted.

Maori part will be well under 5% but will get most of the maori seats and cause an overhang. A vote for MP is a wasted vote.

Winston will scrape over the 5% mark due to all the geriatrics who think hes the only honest politician and has been set up. He wont have any power and will not achieve much before deciding not to stand in the next election.

The Greens will scrape over 5% despite most of New Zealanding seeing that theyre the most damaging party and everyone would be better off if they went back to their communes. Their actions in 08 and beyond will determine whether they increase or decrease their vote substantially but this will be the last election they're close to 5%

United Future will get back in but only with one seat, as will Anderton.

Roll on the 8th of Nolabour...though Im feeling alot less confident than I was, I get the feeling alot of Kiwis are far less sensible than I once gave them credit for.

[brendonjw]

Helam clark is going on about trust, this is the same "woman" who committed forgery with the painting??? no wonder labour is so soft on crime :2guns:

[RiderInBlack]

a vote for Labour is a vote for the most corrupt and self serving Government in our history.Bull shit. Ya have forgotten The Muldoon Years. Nat will not be the answer to our problems that all ya suckers think. Yer let's go back ta keeping the "Fat Cats" happy while our Overseas Dept Raises along with the Inflation Rate. As for the environment, I'm no Greenie, but it is long past time we pull our heads out of the sand (or the Oil Barons' Arses), and started ta take looking after we have got seriously. It's a long way to the next habital planet, if we trash this one. Nat is not going ta help there. Especially if they are going to encouraging Coal Powered Electricity.
I often feel that running a country must be like raising Teenagers. Ya have ta make unpopular choices because of finances, resouces and ya have ta get on with the "Naugbours", but ya "teenagers" only see that they don't get ta do the "cool" things the "Naugbours' Kids" do. "They" don't want ta understand why you have made the hard choices and that it is in their own good in the long run.
So OK, blame "Mum" (Labour Goverment) for all ya problems and run off ta live with "Daddy" (National) for awhile cause ya stupid enough ta think "He" will treat ya better. Only to find out "Mum" was not too bad and might have know what they where doing.

[Winston001]

Bull shit. Ya have forgotten The Muldoon Years. Nat will not be the answer to our problems that all ya suckers think. Yer let's go back ta keeping the "Fat Cats" happy while our Overseas Dept Raises along with the Inflation Rate. As for the environment, I'm no Greenie, but it is long past time we pull our heads out of the sand (or the Oil Barons' Arses), and started ta take looking after we have got seriously. It's a long way to the next habital planet, if we trash this one. Nat is not going ta help there. Especially if they are going to encouraging Coal Powered Electricity.
I often feel that running a country must be like raising Teenagers. Ya have ta make unpopular choices because of finances, resouces and ya have ta get on with the "Naugbours", but ya "teenagers" only see that they don't get ta do the "cool" things the "Naugbours' Kids" do. "They" don't want ta understand why you have made the hard choices and that it is in their own good in the long run.
So OK, blame "Mum" (Labour Goverment) for all ya problems and run off ta live with "Daddy" (National) for awhile cause ya stupid enough ta think "He" will treat ya better. Only to find out "Mum" was not too bad and might have know what they where doing.

Some good stuff here. Disagree about the Muldoon bit - Muldoon tried to create Fortress New Zealand with tariff barriers against the rest of the world. There are sod all Fat Cats in NZ - that is one of our problems, no-one with enough spare wealth to have a go at new industries, to provide venture capital.

But I like the teenager analogy. The thing is I see it the other way around. Labour is protecting the teen with lots of rules and unearned free stuff, essentially protecting the teen against the cold hard world. National wants to let the teen have a go and experience the consequences of failure and success, while still providing a basic home and shelter. Tough love.

However the National version of tough love is still pretty generous and not far from Labour.

Why can't our useless bloody MPs and equally useless media start talking about national and international issues. Not only global warming but economics and social democracy. Where do we want to go? Look at Finland and Ireland as success stories and ask what we can learn.

[Swoop]

If Helen gets in, watch the Aussie Exodus become a flood.
Quite correct. There are companies already prepared to close up shop here and depart for Oz.
Far too much bullshit paperwork and taxes here.

The Greens will scrape over 5% despite most of New Zealanding seeing that theyre the most damaging party and everyone would be better off if they went back to their communes.
Unfortunately there are voters who have been brainwashed with some of their crap. Even the Coromandel residents will not vote for a green electorate MP. If people stop giving the bastards their party vote we might see less impetus for the "global taxation swindle" of carbon credits.:clap:

[MisterD]

Unfortunately there are voters who have been brainwashed with some of their crap. Even the Coromandel residents will not vote for a green electorate MP.

Unfortunately we're up against the power of the international Green brand in that respect. It's all touchy-feely emotional stuff, their "Vote for me" billboards with the kid on it etc. etc. Yeah, all well and good, but I'd like my kids to have a chance of living here and getting a job, so I'm voting for them and voting ACT.

To anyone still considering voting Labour, you do realise this means Winnie still as Foreign Minister, and Greens in the cabinet? Sue Bradford as Police Minister? Keith Locke as associate Defence? Shitting yourself yet?

[Flatcap]

Unfortunately we're up against the power of the international Green brand in that respect. It's all touchy-feely emotional stuff, their "Vote for me" billboards with the kid on it etc. etc. Yeah, all well and good, but I'd like my kids to have a chance of living here and getting a job, so I'm voting for them and voting ACT.

I didn't realise you were such a tree-hugger

[MisterD]

Check the grammar of my post for me Craig - voting for my kids by voting for ACT.

[Flatcap]

Check the grammar of my post for me Craig - voting for my kids by voting for ACT.

As Uncle Tommy always says:

"Never let the facts get in the way of a piss take"

along with:

"You aint drunk till you shit yourself"

[RiderInBlack]

Quite correct. There are companies already prepared to close up shop here and depart for Oz.
Far too much bullshit paperwork and taxes here.Which will still happen even if Nat get's in. Not fooled for a moment that there will be less "bullshit paperwork and taxes" when Nat get's in.

[Bullitt]

Pity we cant get accurate political billboards like this one

[davereid]

.....I also find it interesting that employers say wages cant go up until productivity does. Amazing how these same workers that ar'nt working hard enough here are so valued overseas.... :2guns:

Productivity is basically unrelated to how hard you work.

To be productive you need a few things, off the top of my head I think..

- You need access to cheap capital (cheaper than your foreign competitor at least)

- You need to minimise waste, or output wasted feeding parasites

- You need stable government that doesnt change the rules all the time, and is not corrupt.

- You need to be able to put your plans into action quickly, without waiting for un-necessary government involvement.

Lets look at two examples.

You and I are both gravediggers, in adjacent towns. There is a plentiful market for our trade, as we have lots of elderly residents.

But, my town has a low tax (rates), easy-to comply style of government. Your town has a high tax, high compliance government.

After a year, we have both worked very hard, digging a grave every single working day, and we both have $20k. I pay my rates, and you pay yours. I now have $19K, as my tax rate is the same as Singapore. You have $10k, as you are taxed in new Zealand.

After 3 years of hard work, I have $30k more in the bank than you. I also enjoy a lower interest rate than you, so I can borrow more money.

I borrow $100k, add it to my $30k and buy a JCB digger.

I can now dig 4 graves a day. So now I am more productive, but I don't work as hard. And I make more money.

You on the other hand will take years to get your digger. And when you do, you will need a permit to use it. Which will take 18 months to get.

And then, just after you get your digger, the government will invoke the "no tracked vehicles Act' without warning.

You could have chosen a wheeled digger, but you didn't see the change coming.

Now you are f*cked, so I offer you a pay rise and a digger, if you come to my town.

And your council offers to save you by putting a levy on your fuel, so it can save the world from Chinas emissions.

[RiderInBlack]

As an Ex Master Farrier, I've worked with Coal, and it is full of nasty crap gases. Old Farriers (Horse Shoers/Black Smiths ta ya non horsey buggers) ended up Fu*h lungs due ta Coal. Glad I was working with LPG. Why would any nutter want ta go back the the Industrial Age Pollution days using shitty coal?

[Wingnut]

Productivity is basically unrelated to how hard you work.

To be productive you need a few things, off the top of my head I think..

- You need access to cheap capital (cheaper than your foreign competitor at least)

- You need to minimise waste, or output wasted feeding parasites

- You need stable government that doesnt change the rules all the time, and is not corrupt.

- You need to be able to put your plans into action quickly, without waiting for un-necessary government involvement.

Lets look at two examples.

You and I are both gravediggers, in adjacent towns. There is a plentiful market for our trade, as we have lots of elderly residents.

But, my town has a low tax (rates), easy-to comply style of government. Your town has a high tax, high compliance government.

After a year, we have both worked very hard, digging a grave every single working day, and we both have $20k. I pay my rates, and you pay yours. I now have $19K, as my tax rate is the same as Singapore. You have $10k, as you are taxed in new Zealand.

After 3 years of hard work, I have $30k more in the bank than you. I also enjoy a lower interest rate than you, so I can borrow more money.

I borrow $100k, add it to my $30k and buy a JCB digger.

I can now dig 4 graves a day. So now I am more productive, but I don't work as hard. And I make more money.

You on the other hand will take years to get your digger. And when you do, you will need a permit to use it. Which will take 18 months to get.

And then, just after you get your digger, the government will invoke the "no tracked vehicles Act' without warning.

You could have chosen a wheeled digger, but you didn't see the change coming.

Now you are f*cked, so I offer you a pay rise and a digger, if you come to my town.

And your council offers to save you by putting a levy on your fuel, so it can save the world from Chinas emissions.

Surely if it was that simple - change would have to happen - or am I just ignorant?

[Swoop]

Why would any nutter want ta go back the the Industrial Age Pollution days using shitty coal?
You had better ask the Chinese that question. They are happy to use coal to run the power stations that are fuelling their economy.

They certainly do not care about their environment when it comes down to making a buck (or a Yen).
I bet they don't have the paperwork and resource management issues to contend with when applying for a new power station/building/city to be built, either.

[jrandom]

Y'know what? You're all right. None of the major political parties have anything of value to offer.

The faceless mindless masses will vote Mr Key and his lackeys into power, and everything will continue to flip-flop along much as it always has.

It is left to you to consider whether you should use the power of your vote to support a single-issue party (http://www.alcp.org.nz/) that you can agree with.

Tick the leaf in 2008!

[jrandom]

The basic standard of living in the UK is quite unpleasant unless you like rooting and drinking as a way of life...

Ahem.

Well, I can't say I'd complain too loudly...

[The Pastor]

just vote for the bil and ben party, they put the party back in political party!

[Niterider]

Productivity is basically unrelated to how hard you work.

To be productive you need a few things, off the top of my head I think..

- You need access to cheap capital (cheaper than your foreign competitor at least)

- You need to minimise waste, or output wasted feeding parasites

- You need stable government that doesnt change the rules all the time, and is not corrupt.

- You need to be able to put your plans into action quickly, without waiting for un-necessary government involvement.

Lets look at two examples.

You and I are both gravediggers, in adjacent towns. There is a plentiful market for our trade, as we have lots of elderly residents.

But, my town has a low tax (rates), easy-to comply style of government. Your town has a high tax, high compliance government.

After a year, we have both worked very hard, digging a grave every single working day, and we both have $20k. I pay my rates, and you pay yours. I now have $19K, as my tax rate is the same as Singapore. You have $10k, as you are taxed in new Zealand.

After 3 years of hard work, I have $30k more in the bank than you. I also enjoy a lower interest rate than you, so I can borrow more money.

I borrow $100k, add it to my $30k and buy a JCB digger.

I can now dig 4 graves a day. So now I am more productive, but I don't work as hard. And I make more money.

You on the other hand will take years to get your digger. And when you do, you will need a permit to use it. Which will take 18 months to get.

And then, just after you get your digger, the government will invoke the "no tracked vehicles Act' without warning.

You could have chosen a wheeled digger, but you didn't see the change coming.

Now you are f*cked, so I offer you a pay rise and a digger, if you come to my town.

And your council offers to save you by putting a levy on your fuel, so it can save the world from Chinas emissions.

This is a masterpiece!:Punk:
Dave, may I have copyright on it please? (If I make money from it I'll pay you royalties):msn-wink:

BTW, why don't you stand for Gubbermint, you have both my votes mate!! Just name your party! ....or are we both off to OZ?

[Clockwork]

You had better ask the Chinese that question. They are happy to use coal to run the power stations that are fuelling their economy.

They certainly do not care about their environment when it comes down to making a buck (or a Yen).
I bet they don't have the paperwork and resource management issues to contend with when applying for a new power station/building/city to be built, either.

Yup.... they've got poisoned babies too.

[RiderInBlack]

You had better ask the Chinese that question. They are happy to use coal to run the power stations that are fuelling their economy.

They certainly do not care about their environment when it comes down to making a buck (or a Yen).
I bet they don't have the paperwork and resource management issues to contend with when applying for a new power station/building/city to be built, either.Which as much as it annoys us, is why we have. Just as well too, it that case.

[NighthawkNZ]

Surely if it was that simple - change would have to happen - or am I just ignorant?


unfortunately it is nearly that simple, any one thats done economics would agree...

[Quasievil]

It is left to you to consider whether you should use the power of your vote to support a single-issue party (http://www.alcp.org.nz/) that you can agree with.

Tick the leaf in 2008!

I clicked it and its very slow to respond, is that a sign of the party ?

[Winston001]

Productivity is basically unrelated to how hard you work.

To be productive you need a few things, off the top of my head I think..

- You need access to cheap capital (cheaper than your foreign competitor at least)

- You need to minimise waste, or output wasted feeding parasites

- You need stable government that doesnt change the rules all the time, and is not corrupt.

- You need to be able to put your plans into action quickly, without waiting for un-necessary government involvement........

Excellent post and what is frustrating is that this subject isn't discussed in schools or with any depth in our society.

Probably the Resource Management Act and now, the Emissions Trading Scheme are the laws which people see as barriers to industry.

I'm a greenie at heart but have real reservations about the way NZs carbon footprint is calculated. Never mind - the real issue is that to enjoy a high quality of life we have to accept restrictions on blatant abuse of our land and water.

So there has to be a balance between enough regulation to protect what we have, but not too much that it squashes anyone trying to develop business and employment.

Having said that, most of the RMA noise actually comes from developers who want to cut up land, sell it off, and take the profits. No production in that.

[SPman]

. There are around 450,000 kiwis in Oz at present, generally the ones we want in our country as they have the drive to do better and skills and work ethic to suit.
I don't!

Think of what the voting demographics would be if they were all living in NZ instead? I'm voting the same as I would if I were living there


My prediction - it is going to be closer than the polls suggest, as Labour will sleep with anyone to stay in power and they have more options. With the Maori seats, they have a natural advantage. Add that to all those civil servants and beneficiaries who know a gravy train station when they see one... Perhaps they understand and know how to use MMP better... and the Maori party will not automatically go Labour - they have been shafted badly by Labour in the last few years, particularly the botched Foreshore Legislation debacle! I wouldn't call living the life of a beneficiary a gravy train, exactly, unless thats all you have for food...and civil servants seem to be the same in "quality" and number under either party

If Helen gets in, watch the Aussie Exodus become a flood. ...how they going to afford the fares.......:whistle:

If the Nats get in, they won't realistically be able to do anything doue to a tanking econaomy, and a huge voting bloc who cannot be upset, and a left wing media. They don't have the
balls to do what needs to be done - decimation of the bureaucrats (in the traditional Roman fashion) and serious cost reductions and accountability. Accountability! From the National party! :rofl: Where have you been the last 50 yrs!
Left wing media? The Harold, that bastion of reactionary rightwingery. TV - left wing? :rofl:
Decimation of beauracrats - oh yes please, in however fashion.....

[Swoop]

I clicked it and its very slow to respond, is that a sign of the party ?
They are all out getting some snacks. "Getting a case of The Munchies" was mentioned...

[SPman]

You had better ask the Chinese that question. They are happy to use coal to run the power stations that are fuelling their economy.

They certainly do not care about their environment when it comes down to making a buck (or a Yen).
I bet they don't have the paperwork and resource management issues to contend with when applying for a new power station/building/city to be built, either.
Yet,surprisingly, the Chinese are way ahead of Australia and NZ when it comes to investment and use of renewable energy technology.
Over 1000 factories churning out solar water heating units, big investments in Wind and PV power cells - it's just that, there's so many of them and they are doing so much catching up with the west, that China is like a micrcosm of what went on in the West, spread over a much longer time scale!

[Swoop]

Over 1000 factories churning out solar water heating units, big investments in Wind and PV power cells
Manufacturing an item that is "green" is a seperate issue to using an item that is "green".
They might use whale blubber (or coal, or, or...) to fuel their steam engine that makes the solar water heater. (OK, it's an example)

China is buying up used batteries to recycle the heavy metals. I bet that meeting environmental discharge regulations is high on their agenda here.

[jrandom]

I wonder what Tatsuya Ishida would draw about our election?

<img src="http://www.sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2008-09-16.gif"/>

[Magua]

It will definately get rid of most of the common crime like theft, murder (including boy racers using cars as weapons), rape etc.:ar15: or am I missing something?:wait:

Was that sarcasm? How would they definately get rid of those crimes?


3: Resource "management"...

Odd, last I checked the RMA was brought in by national.

[Niterider]

Was that sarcasm? How would they definately get rid of those crimes?

Quote from Lib site:real crimes with genuine victims like rape, robbery, murder and theft can be vigorously pursued and the rights of these victims enforced and upheld.
Life sentences for real crimes will mean life.

[Niterider]

This is a quote from ACT's site:
"Miss Clark knows that tightening liquor laws and capping liquor licences won't stem the rising tide of violent crime - this is just a cynical and transparent attempt to make it look as though Labour cares about public safety," Mrs Roy said.

"If the Prime Minister were genuine about dealing with this problem, she would be demanding that the laws we already have are enforced - and looking at the contributing factors of education and welfare.

"Instead she is pushing for regulations that, while having a minimal effect on criminals, will penalise those New Zealanders who already obey the law - in the same vein as dog micro-chipping and the Anti-Smacking legislation.

"Offenders commit violent crimes, so Labour will punish innocent New Zealanders - where is the sense and justice in that?

[Niterider]

Better the Devil you know I say!.....:niceone:
No doubt its the end for Labour but, lets check back on this thread in 12 months and listen to the National beaters.
When was the Government that had the whole country (or even 1/2 the country) pleased with everything they did?

My suggestion is to look away from the argument of who is pleased and who not. It is just common sence that the majority would prefer peace rather than war and clean rather than dirty and riches rather than rags. It is very easy by these measures to see who's doing the best job of Gubbirment...
The problem being many people have many crooked ideas of achieving it which almost always end up in non-achievement:dodge:. There are rules to live by. Accept the rules and enforce the laws and you're on your way to better days:wari:. Ignore the rules (and the One that gave them) and you're turning life into your worst nightmare:devil2:.

[Swoop]

Odd, last I checked the RMA was brought in by national.
Unfortunately not all your information is correct. It was introduced by labour.

Historical Overview:
The concepts underpinning the RMA were based on developments in both international and local thinking over the previous 20 years. The 1972 Stockholm United Nations Conference on Environment and Development provided the first forum for international debate on concepts such as integrated environmental management and sustainable development.

A subsequent audit of New Zealand's environmental management by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), in 1980, highlighted the need to improve environmental management locally. In 1981, the Nature Conservation Council prepared a report titled Integrating Conservation and Development: A Proposal for a New Zealand Conservation Strategy. This was one of the first documents to identify how the key ideas underlying the concept of sustainable development could be applied in New Zealand.

At the same time, during the early 1980s, there was a growing appreciation that key environmental legislation, including the Water and Soil Conservation Act 1967 and the Town and Country Planning Act 1977, needed to be reviewed. Later that decade, the new Labour Government began to investigate and implement institutional reform for environmental management at both the national and local government levels.

Work began on formally reviewing a number of environmental statutes in July 1988, after the Labour Government was re-elected to power. In December 1988, the government issued a proposal for a single integrated resource management statute that would replace the many existing statutory procedures. After an extensive consultation process, the Resource Management Bill was introduced into Parliament in December 1989, but the Labour Government lost power in 1990 before it was passed into law.

The new National Government decided to continue with the Bill, but first gave it to a Review Group for further consideration. As a result of the review, the minerals section was dropped from the Bill (and enacted separately as the Crown Minerals Act 1991) and other changes made. A revised Act was passed by Parliament in August 1991.

When enacted, the RMA repealed 78 statutes and regulations, and amended numerous others, to provide a single piece of legislation for the management of land, water, soil and air throughout New Zealand. The Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act 1996 subsequently replaced the hazardous substances section of the RMA, which never came into force.


Hopefully the reforms (http://www.national.org.nz/Article.aspx?ArticleID=28322) to this act will be done quickly.

[Magua]

Reading the link from your last post.
"For Labour, the Resource Management Act is about ideology. They say the Act is "beautifully written and beautifully crafted"."

Pretty rediculous way to think about the Act, IF that's what labour actually thinks of it.

[The Pastor]

election party at the strangers, be there or be gay.

[RiderInBlack]

Unfortunately not all your information is correct. It was introduced by labour.

...the Resource Management Bill was introduced into Parliament in December 1989, but the Labour Government lost power in 1990 before it was passed into law.

The new National Government decided to continue with the Bill,...... A revised Act was passed by (National Lead) Parliament in August 1991.So therefore, it doesn't matter if ether Labour or National get in, We will be still stuck with the RMA:hitcher: So therefore using it as a reason to not vote for ether National or Labour is an invalid argument:stupid:

[MisterD]

So therefore, it doesn't matter if ether Labour or National get in, We will be still stuck with the RMA:hitcher: So therefore using it as a reason to not vote for ether National or Labour is an invalid argument:stupid:

If it had passed you by, National are promising to streamline the act to make major projects of national importance (hydro power schemes for instance) quicker and easier to consent.

[firefighter]

Oh and I reckon that anyone who has been on any kind of benefit for more than 6 months shouldnt be allowed to Vote, on the basis they dont contribute to the economy , rather they suckle on it. that way all of the fucking bludgers wont be able to continue dragging the country down looking after their own lazy bludging self interests.

Im going to form a party called the, world according to Quasi party !!:apint:

Your fucken right there, I totally agree, people not contributing to the economy certainly shouldn't have any sway over our government, same goes for prisoners (can they vote?) and ex prisoners, in my eyes they would only vote for a party like Labour which feeds their dole wage well.

[Tank]

so 50 days to go - Just how low do you think labour will go in their campaign?

Personally I fond their comments inferring Key "is responsible" for the global markets is terrible - but the back of fag packet comments about Key sending 60 NZ'ers to come home in body bags is disgusting.

Still - with luck the truth about what Winny has on Labour will come out before the election ???

[Swoop]

So therefore, it doesn't matter if ether Labour or National get in, We will be still stuck with the RMA:hitcher: So therefore using it as a reason to not vote for ether National or Labour is an invalid argument:stupid:
Did you click my link that outlines the changes that National want to make to this act?
The Looney Labourite Sect have used this act to bring development of NZ to a virtual standstill.
The bloating of the public servant's and their paperwork mentality, means that to get any projects to happen, the delays are unbelievable.
Ask anyone who has tried to build a house for their family, how much trouble they had.:rolleyes:

[RiderInBlack]

Your fucken right there, I totally agree, people not contributing to the economy certainly shouldn't have any sway over our government, same goes for prisoners (can they vote?) and ex prisoners, in my eyes they would only vote for a party like Labour which feeds their dole wage well.So therefore if ya happen ta be unlucky enough to be unemployed the year of the Election, ya shouldn't be able to vote? What if ya had a job the year before hand? What if ya had a job after the election. What if ya crashed ya bike and went on long term ACC? Ya not contributing any more, so no vote? The list goes on. Think you guys need ta be less judgmental about those in Welfare. By the way, they do take taxes out of all benefits.

[firefighter]

So therefore if ya happen ta be unlucky enough to be unemployed the year of the Election, ya shouldn't be able to vote? What if ya had a job the year before hand? What if ya had a job after the election. What if ya crashed ya bike and went on long term ACC? Ya not contributing any more, so no vote? The list goes on. Think you guys need ta be least judgmental about those in Welfare. By the way, they do take taxes out of all benefits.

NO that's a bit more cut and dry than I was intending......let me elaborate a bit.....

If you haven't worked for 6 months "just because"- well youv'e had enough time to get a job so you lose your right to vote,fucken simple, however if you start working again for say, 6 months full time then you regain the right to vote.

Sickness beneficiaries, well come on I don't expect them to lose their right to vote I honestly didn't think i'd need to elaborate on that....FFS

And yes, I am pretty jugdemental on most beneficiaries, the legitimate ones I have no issues with whatsoever, the other 98%, can go fuck themselves and have no right to choose the hands that feed them.

And as for the tax coming out of the benefits.....give me a fucken break, that's not paying tax, that just happens to make the fuckers feel like important members of society.(again not including the sickness beneficiaries,but why tax comes out of their money is beyond my train of thought)

[Sanx]

As an Ex Master Farrier, I've worked with Coal, and it is full of nasty crap gases. Old Farriers (Horse Shoers/Black Smiths ta ya non horsey buggers) ended up Fu*h lungs due ta Coal. Glad I was working with LPG. Why would any nutter want ta go back the the Industrial Age Pollution days using shitty coal?

Actually, coal can be a very clean fuel if the smoke is properly treated before it's let out into the atmosphere.


Ignore the rules (and the One that gave them) and you're turning life into your worst nightmare:devil2:.

You were doing quite well up until you brought your imaginary friend into it. Religion and politics should never be mixed.


So therefore if ya happen ta be unlucky enough to be unemployed the year of the Election, ya shouldn't be able to vote? What if ya had a job the year before hand? What if ya had a job after the election. What if ya crashed ya bike and went on long term ACC? Ya not contributing any more, so no vote? The list goes on. Think you guys need ta be less judgmental about those in Welfare. By the way, they do take taxes out of all benefits.

Oh ... they tax benefits. That's OK then. Kinda like someone stealing $100 off me then giving me back $5 and expecting me to be grateful.

If you're unemployed and claiming the dole for the whole twelve months before the election, then you're simply not trying to get a job. End of story. You're not contributing to society in any meaningful form, so why you should get the chance to have your say in it? Sickness and disability benefit are a bit different; you don't (or shouldn't) go on them by choice.

[MisterD]

It's sort of a nice idea, but unworkable in practice I think. What about a situation where I finally get enough money for MrsD to give up work and be a full-time mum. She's no longer a tax payer, but should she lose her right to vote?

Of course, if we were sensible and brought in income splitting that issue would go away...

Personally, I'd just make it a requirement to pass a test and gain a voting licence.

[RiderInBlack]

If you haven't worked for 6 months "just because"- well youv'e had enough time to get a job so you lose your right to vote,fucken simple, however if you start working again for say, 6 months full time then you regain the right to vote.Have you ever been unemployed for any length of time? I have on and off during the 80's when the unemployment was over 10% in Whangarei. Got made redundant in my first job. Getting any job was not that easy then. 6 months enough time, get real. Depends on ya qualifications, age and skills. By the way, when I have had a job (and I have done some shit ones in my life), I have worked very hard for little pay.
We're on the start of another recession, expect jobs ta get hard ta come by and unemployment ta raise, regardless if who is in power.

[Magua]

Personally, I'd just make it a requirement to pass a test and gain a voting licence.

That would have great potential to go wrong. Who would set what's in the test?

[firefighter]

It's sort of a nice idea, but unworkable in practice I think. What about a situation where I finally get enough money for MrsD to give up work and be a full-time mum. She's no longer a tax payer, but should she lose her right to vote?

Of course, if we were sensible and brought in income splitting that issue would go away...

Personally, I'd just make it a requirement to pass a test and gain a voting licence.

yeah, I definately hear you there, and that's where you would have a special situation, there's also the situation where people retire, and they do deserve to vote, as theyv'e worked and are living off their earnings, the group i'm segregating here (could get me in trouble that statement!) are the beneficiaries that don't work, haven't worked and won't work, not the full time mums with a working partner, surely it isn't that hard to ditinguish the difference between the two and label their benefit appropriately, and the type of government assistance recieved came with a clause, ie. the islander family that live next to me would not be entitled to vote because basically they are peices of shit, lazy fuckers, I have never seen them leave for work before, and there is no reason for them to recieve any assistance.

[firefighter]

Have you ever been unemployed for any length of time? I have on and off during the 80's when the unemployment was over 10% in Whangarei. Got made redundant in my first job. Getting any job was not that easy then. 6 months enough time, get real. Depends on ya qualifications, age and skills. By the way, when I have had a job (and I have done some shit ones in my life), I have worked very hard for little pay.
We're on the start of another recession, expect jobs ta get hard ta come by and unemployment ta raise, regardless if who is in power.

N.Z in 2008 is a far cry from N.Z in the 80's......I mean come on! yes, you CAN get a job in 6 months, as I said it's 2008, well, those that WANT to work can get it......
And no, I have never, ever, ever, been un-employed for ANY period of time since I was 12, and Iv'e done all sorts of work too.

[MisterD]

That would have great potential to go wrong. Who would set what's in the test?

A Royal Commission ought to be up to the job. Basic knowledge of how our democracy works, some basic general citizenship knowledge: history of the country; how the ToW fits in etc.

More wrong than dumb South Aucklanders voting how Labour and the EPMU direct in return for a KFC quarter pack?

[firefighter]

A Royal Commission ought to be up to the job. Basic knowledge of how our democracy works, some basic general citizenship knowledge: history of the country; how the ToW fits in etc.

More wrong than dumb South Aucklanders voting how Labour and the EPMU direct in return for a KFC quarter pack?

hahaha, how about the people responsible for the NZQA's that replaced School C?lol they did a good job with that :crazy::whistle:

[Quasievil]

My Vote will be likely going to the party that will repeal the Emissions Trading Scam and the party who has a brain and realises that this whole Carbon crap is nothing but a new tax scheme embrassed by the stupid percentage of the population, infact if there was a party called the UNGREEN party I would probably vote for it, (assuming all other policies fitted with me).

This Government is a failure, it has achieve no further benefits to New Zealands critical areas, Health , Security, education, and if they cant even do that why exactly do we need a government ? I would rather keep my Taxes and buy what I need and what I want for my family............................Yes Im VOTING ACT !

[SPman]

Manufacturing an item that is "green" is a seperate issue to using an item that is "green".
They might use whale blubber (or coal, or, or...) to fuel their steam engine that makes the solar water heater. (OK, it's an example)

China is buying up used batteries to recycle the heavy metals. I bet that meeting environmental discharge regulations is high on their agenda here.There is one city in China (of 3million people) that has 98% of its total hot water provided by Solar panels, residential and commercial. Do we see any initiatives like this in NZ, other than lip service to "we must use more sustainable power" ?
Fat fucking chance!

[Quasievil]

There is one city in China (of 3million people) that has 98% of its total hot water provided by Solar panels, residential and commercial. Do we see any initiatives like this in NZ, other than lip service to "we must use more sustainable power" ?
Fat fucking chance!

China Fires up a new Coal fuelled plant every ten days, does any other country ?

[Flatcap]

There is one city in China (of 3million people) that has 98% of its total hot water provided by Solar panels, residential and commercial. Do we see any initiatives like this in NZ, other than lip service to "we must use more sustainable power" ?
Fat fucking chance!

Easy to achieve if you don't bathe

[MisterD]

Easy to achieve if you don't bathe

You're getting China confused with France, I think...

[SPman]

China Fires up a new Coal fuelled plant every ten days, does any other country ?
Is any other country developing as fast as China? It's playing catchup and just doing what the West did to develop, except it's doing it over 10 yrs, not 150. Without schemes like the solar water, etc, it would probably firing up another 8-10 power stations a year. China uses half the amount of energy per person as the West and on a percentage scale, the use of alternative energy is far higher than most "greener" countries - it's just the sheer numbers and the scale of the place. No RMA in China - is that what people want for their countries?

[Quasievil]

Is any other country developing as fast as China? It's playing catchup and just doing what the West did to develop, except it's doing it over 10 yrs, not 150. Without schemes like the solar water, etc, it would probably firing up another 8-10 power stations a year. China uses half the amount of energy per person as the West and on a percentage scale, the use of alternative energy is far higher than most "greener" countries - it's just the sheer numbers and the scale of the place. No RMA in China - is that what people want for their countries?

When you break China down to a per capita basis most of the stats become redundant due to the fact that a vast number of Chinas 1,321,851,888 population dont live in a manner equivalent to the majority of the western population, becasue of that per capita stats dont work.
The Fact that China does have a high growth rate and is utilising a huge number of resources to fuel its growth means to me that we in little ole tiny incy pincy New Zealand has gone WAY TO FAR on the whole emissions scam, and to my way of thinking INSTANTLY shows its nothing more than Government lead planned and marketed media hype to enable the governments tax take on us to increase to a level which will soon be nothing short of a "astronomical increase" in relation to what we currently pay now (for failing services and infrastructure)

No RMA in New Zealand ?? we could only wish !

Now Im off to load the rifle its Greens hunting season

[Swoop]

There is one city in China (of 3million people) that has 98% of its total hot water provided by Solar panels, residential and commercial. Do we see any initiatives like this in NZ, other than lip service to "we must use more sustainable power" ?
Fat fucking chance!
Correct! After 9 years of labour nothing has changed here.
Glad to hear that you will also be voting for National or Act!

[RiderInBlack]

China Fires up a new Coal fuelled plant every ten days, does any other country ?Yep and look how clean their air was for the Olympics:rolleyes: They had ta shut down a lot of industries and stop vehice use around the Olympics to try and get it clean enough. Ya wouldn't get me eatting any thing in the water around there to. China has a big cleaning up to do. Some people here need ta pull their heads out of the sand or we won't have a healthy place to live in.

[Winston001]

Yep and look how clean their air was for the Olympics:rolleyes: They had ta shut down a lot of industries and stop vehice use around the Olympics to try and get it clean enough. Ya wouldn't get me eatting any thing in the water around there to. China has a big cleaning up to do. Some people here need ta pull their heads out of the sand or we won't have a healthy place to live in.

Mate - I'm not sure why you use blue but unfortunately on a black background, it is barely readable. Good to be different but if your points can't be read....:( ?

[RiderInBlack]

Mate - I'm not sure why you use blue but unfortunately on a black background, it is barely readable. Good to be different but if your points can't be read....:( ?Ya in the Dark Universe KB Mode Or Light (Not that I care as this is my colour, the same as Racey uses this one)? High light the writing with ya mouse and you will even be able ta read this too:
Get over it and get back ta the topic:msn-wink: