Power-to-weight ratio law and bikes

[AIkonNZ]

Hi all,
New member here - Currently saving for a bike after recently getting started on my license (On [L]arry license at the moment - sigh).

I hear of a law change looming in regards to cc ratings being pushed aside for power to weight ratio values.

So being useless at maths, conversions and pretty much everything else I thought a thread could be useful for myself and fellow n00bs, where bike power to weight ratios could be posted for easy lookup.

I had been looking at a Hyosung GT250R: After panicking that my future bike would be ripped from my fingers by Mr. Plod I decided to work out the p2w ratio to double check it was still an option.

Hyosung GT250R
Bike weight = 171 kg dry (to be on the safe side)
Bike power = 29ps:10,000rpm (I am told this unit is a 1:1 with the HP rating)
29ps:10,000 = 29 HP (Close enough anyways)

So first i converted the HP in to KW:
29 HP = 21.63 KW (I used a online calc, but you roughly multiply the HP by 0.77 to get the KW rating)

Now we know our bikes KW rating (If you didnt already), we can use this formula to work out p2W ratio:

Power to weight ratio = (power divided by the weight) x 1000

So (21.63 KW divided by 171 kg) x 1000 = 126 KW power per tonnes weight

And if we add the "90 KG rider + fuel" bit into the total weight we are going to be even lower.

So Hyosung GT250R is still sweet option for [L]arrys under the new law.

Lets do a 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R (The rough method)

Bike power: 31PS:11,000rpm
Bike weight: 152 kg dry

31PS = 31 HP (1:1)

31 HP multiplied by 0.77 = 23.87 KW

(23.87 Kw divided by weight of 152 Kg) x 1000 = 157KW power per tonnes weight!!

OH NOES!!...Illegal!?? but wait.... if the new law follows Aussies standard (Which i havent bothered checking) then the 90 KG rider and fuel weight is added to the calculation so that will bring you back under the 150 KW per tonne legal limit.

(23.87 Kw divided by real weight of [152kg bike +80kg rider + 10kg fuel]) x1000 = 99KW power per tonne.

So sweeeet as!

Well thats my examples: Im no mathmagician so please point out any rediculous mistakes or such. I will be surprised if theres none :)

Please feel free to post more examples too! Be interesting to see a bike that would actually not be legal with the new law.

[James Deuce]

THis will give you an idea. The power to weight ratio INCLUDES a 90kg rider, as you said. Stop hyper-ventilating. Find a paper bag and breathe into it. Remove paper bag before you pass out.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/motorcycleridertrainingscheme/motorcyclesnoviceriders.html

[AIkonNZ]

Cheers dude, that site is gold :D

Oh and re: "Remove paper bag before you pass out." - Why isn't that half the fun??

[MaxCannon]

I predict a resurgence in the 400cc market.
Mine calculates to 138KW / ton (including the 90KG for rider)

I think it's a pretty sensible limit really. It's around the point where the bike will still perform well and isn't stuck at 80kph up a hill like some gutless 250s but it's not so powerful that a touch too much throttle will get you in trouble before you know what is going on.

[fridsy]

What if your 190kg rider?... can I get an even more powerful bike?....lol :msn-wink:

[chester]

no Hornet 250 on the list!!!!! :argue:

[lostinflyz]

whats the go gonna be with guys who been on restricted for years and owning NSR250's and the like.

i wonder if they will follow the trend of allowing those who have been under the old laws to continue under them as they have in the past on occasions or force upon us the will of the people.

anyone got a date for the new laws??? roughly

[Junkers]

Are they banning 2 strokes over here? :no: I've always wanted an RGV..

[breakaway]

They aren't banning anything. Right now, it's perfectly legal for a learner to jump onto a RS250 right after passing his BHS and scratchies. A RS250 is more powerful than any 400cc 4 stroke. But with these new laws, that won't be possible. It's not limited by engine size, it's the amount of power produced by the engine.

[MarkH]

What if your 190kg rider?... can I get an even more powerful bike?....lol :msn-wink:

High performance bike mod - eat less pies and get some exercise (I said LESS pies, walking to the pie shop is the WRONG exercise) you lazy fat bum!

This is cheaper than buying light weight parts that save a KG or 2.

[MarkH]

whats the go gonna be with guys who been on restricted for years and owning NSR250's and the like.

Resticed for years? My guess is that those guys will finally go and get their full.

[fridsy]

High performance bike mod - eat less pies and get some exercise (I said LESS pies, walking to the pie shop is the WRONG exercise) you lazy fat bum!

This is cheaper than buying light weight parts that save a KG or 2.

Thanks for the personal insult.... fell better?

[MarkH]

Thanks for the personal insult.... fell better?

I'd feel better if I had a pie to eat . . . mmmmm pie. :drool:

I guess I should have thrown in a smiley so you wouldn't take my comment so seriously. :Oops:

[fridsy]

I forgive you as I have got a fat bum...still. ... play nice :innocent:

[slofox]

Well according to that, given my actual weight, mine comes in at 219KW/tonne...hurhurhur...:devil2:.....course I am NOT on a restricted licence.....

[vtec]

CBR250RR
34kW @ the crank
27kW @ the wheel
Weight approx 155kg
Weight with 70kg rider 225
That's only 120kW per tonne with rider at the wheel
or as much as 220kW per tonne without rider at the crank

Two very different numbers. Need to work out the methods of measurement before we can start assessing what the deal is.

[TomJ]

I currently ride an 07 Kawa GPX 250. It does not seem to be in the various lists. If I want to upgrade to a 650 will it be ok for a learner under the new rules?

[lostinflyz]

I currently ride an 07 Kawa GPX 250. It does not seem to be in the various lists. If I want to upgrade to a 650 will it be ok for a learner under the new rules?

all 250's are in except for the excluded few (i.e. 2 strokes)

650's will more than likely be out, but i know in aussie the gs500 or 550 or whatever is realy popular as one of the bigger bikes thats new

[Ixion]

There is no date set for the introduction of new rules, and the election will delay matters.

If they follow the Australian model ( and every indication is that they will), then

All 250s and less except specifically excluded models (all two strokes) are Learner (and restricted) OK
*SELECTED* larger machines up to a maximum of 660cc will be permitted. These will be specified on a list. Not on the list, not legal. The ones on the list will be lower horsepower models. Single cylinder shookchasers will probably make the grade. Four cylinder race replicas won't. You will NOT be able to ride an R6.
The LIST is based on horsepower and weight. But what matters is the LIST. It is no good you saying "Oh my bike has x horsepower and weighs y so it's OK". If it's not on the list and it's over 250cc it's not legal. No matter *what* figures you come up with . It's the LTSA (or whatever they are by then) that decide NOT the rider.

660 is the absolute limit, there is nothing on the list over 660cc (bearing in mind, this is the Australian list , we don't have one yet, the NZ government have said they will copy the Australian list) .

The figures for deciding whether it qualifies for the list will be manufacturers crank horsepower, and manufacturers dry weight plus 90kg for fuel oil and rider. But the authorities are under no obligation to put it on the list even if the figures stack up. They probably will , because that's why they have the guideline. But if they decide not to, you can't force them to.

If it is a legitimate Learner Approved bike, that fact will be noted on the registration and it will be printed on the rego label . The cop will check the label. If it doesn't say "LAMS Approved", bye bye dollars, hullo demerits.

[TomJ]

all 250's are in except for the excluded few (i.e. 2 strokes)

650's will more than likely be out, but i know in aussie the gs500 or 550 or whatever is realy popular as one of the bigger bikes thats new

Thanks for that. I have full now so this is not big issue but wanted to check I could still sell my 250 on without problems

[Bullitt]

Id recommend you sell your 250 before this law becomes widespread knowledge amongst everybody (if it isnt already). A reasonable proportion of learners ride a 250 because thats the largest they can so that artifically creates demand which holds prices up.

Once theres a bigger range of bikes available, particularly larger/faster ones the demand for most 250s will drop off so get out while the going is good.

[rgv250]

hey guys iv got a 91 rgv250 and the factory spec ratings on my model from what i can find is 63hp @ 11000rpm and dry weight of 139, i worked it out like 328kw per ton. :( am i corect in that? and how will they test how much power your bike got or will they go by factory specs? i dont want to have to sell my baby but if i cant ride it what else can i do :S rgv250s getin rare now and id never get another one. and does anyone know when this law wil come into affect? hope iv done my math wrong so hope someone can help :) thanx guys

[imdying]

If it's a JDM one, it's probably a 45hp model. If it's had the SAPC changed to get it up to 60hp, then put a JDM one in, and that'll take you back to 45hp.

[GOONR]

hey guys iv got a 91 rgv250 and the factory spec ratings on my model from what i can find is 63hp @ 11000rpm and dry weight of 139, i worked it out like 328kw per ton. :( am i corect in that? and how will they test how much power your bike got or will they go by factory specs? i dont want to have to sell my baby but if i cant ride it what else can i do :S rgv250s getin rare now and id never get another one. and does anyone know when this law wil come into affect? hope iv done my math wrong so hope someone can help :) thanx guys

If we end up following the NSW models then the RGV250 is explicitly excluded (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/motorcycleridertrainingscheme/motorcyclesnoviceriders.html).

[Jantar]

hey guys iv got a 91 rgv250 and the factory spec ratings on my model from what i can find is 63hp @ 11000rpm and dry weight of 139, i worked it out like 328kw per ton. :( am i corect in that? and how will they test how much power your bike got or will they go by factory specs? i dont want to have to sell my baby but if i cant ride it what else can i do :S rgv250s getin rare now and id never get another one. and does anyone know when this law wil come into affect? hope iv done my math wrong so hope someone can help :) thanx guys
Surely you'll have your full before the law comes into force?

[bogan]

holy thread dredge batman! Didn't notice the dates till second page in even.
My 650 with me on it has wheel kw of 132kw/ton, so does that mean it would be classed as a learner bike?

[Infamy]

This is the worst news all year, well after the $1000 fix up shock my mechanic advised me of. I ride an 1990 RGV VJ21. I did a rough calculation based on a few estimations on weight and exact power of my bike. As follows:
RGV
@ 50 HP =33.55 kW
@ 140kg dry weight
=(33.55/140)x1000
=239kW per tonne.

or a more realistic figure:

@50hp
@ 140kg dry weight + me (80kg) + 20liters of fuel =240kg
=(33.55/240kg)x 1000
=139.79

Which is just under!
I am wondering if I should bring it up to scratch then pay for rego+wof or just scrap it as I will be riding out side of the law again.
This law will probably go through this time, they can't keep holding back. They should implement something like this for cars as well in the interest of 'safety'

[rgv250]

churs guys i really dont want to change the motor tho. i should have my full by then and upgrade but if its comes to it i think il just have to put on some weight to try make it legal :D i dont want to down grade :(

[chasio]

This is the worst news all year, well after the $1000 fix up shock my mechanic advised me of. I ride an 1990 RGV VJ21. I did a rough calculation based on a few estimations on weight and exact power of my bike. As follows:
RGV
@ 50 HP =33.55 kW
@ 140kg dry weight
=(33.55/140)x1000
=239kW per tonne.

or a more realistic figure:

@50hp
@ 140kg dry weight + me (80kg) + 20liters of fuel =240kg
=(33.55/240kg)x 1000
=139.79

Which is just under!
I am wondering if I should bring it up to scratch then pay for rego+wof or just scrap it as I will be riding out side of the law again.
This law will probably go through this time, they can't keep holding back. They should implement something like this for cars as well in the interest of 'safety'

Surely even when the law comes into force your bike won't be worthless?

Just worth less.

[chasio]

churs guys i really dont want to change the motor tho. i should have my full by then and upgrade but if its comes to it i think il just have to put on some weight to try make it legal :D i dont want to down grade :(

I think your hopes of making that work are, sadly, slim. They will most likely sheepily follow the NSW list in Goonr's post.

Have they bothered making that clear anywhere yet, or just blurted a general statement?

[GOONR]

I think your hopes of making that work are, sadly, slim. They will most likely sheepily follow the NSW list in Goonr's post.

Have they bothered making that clear anywhere yet, or just blurted a general statement?

Nope no specifics, it's not hard to see what is coming though. They love Aus and why reinvent the wheel so to speak.

[bogan]

This is the worst news all year, well after the $1000 fix up shock my mechanic advised me of. I ride an 1990 RGV VJ21. I did a rough calculation based on a few estimations on weight and exact power of my bike. As follows:
RGV
@ 50 HP =33.55 kW
@ 140kg dry weight
=(33.55/140)x1000
=239kW per tonne.

or a more realistic figure:

@50hp
@ 140kg dry weight + me (80kg) + 20liters of fuel =240kg
=(33.55/240kg)x 1000
=139.79

Which is just under!
I am wondering if I should bring it up to scratch then pay for rego+wof or just scrap it as I will be riding out side of the law again.
This law will probably go through this time, they can't keep holding back. They should implement something like this for cars as well in the interest of 'safety'

When you say scrap it, I hope you don't mean wreck the bike, mind you I also hope you don't mean ride with a fucked shock, can't you find something on ebay for cheap?

[slofox]

Rules schmules...I've had a full for forty-two years...

Just go get ya full before the law changes.

[davereid]

IThey will most likely sheepily follow the NSW list in Goonr's post.

We have until 2012. If BRONZ or MAG are worth anything, they will be heavily lobbying LTNZ or whatever they currently call themselves for input.

I'll cheerfully volunteer to be on any committee or representative group we come up with for either group.

My personal view ?

This will be good for motorcycling, especially if it can be made a realistic limit. Thats got to be worth lobbying for, especially of they dont apply similar limits to learner car drivers.

The Moped law will mean that those wishing to have a moped need a moped OR motorcycle licence. It should be easy for motorcycle shops to steer new moped riders to a motorcycle licence.

[scumdog]

hey guys iv got a 91 rgv250 and the factory spec ratings on my model from what i can find is 63hp @ 11000rpm and dry weight of 139,

Hell, my 1450cc Harley only makes 65hp at 4,700rpm :woohoo:nd I can live with its performance.

If I HAD to ride a 250cc because I was starting out it wouldn't worry me a jot.:yes:

It's not like it's FOREVER dude..

[rgv250]

ill probly just sit on it until the law comes into affect and if it means i cant have my bike then il store it or sell it and wait out til my full (only 2 years away) i can stil hav the sneaky ride tho as they gota catch me and prove it :D

[chasio]

We have until 2012. If BRONZ or MAG are worth anything, they will be heavily lobbying LTNZ or whatever they currently call themselves for input.

I'll cheerfully volunteer to be on any committee or representative group we come up with for either group.


I think you'll see that happening...

And I'd be very happy too see you on it :)

[davereid]

ill probly just sit on it until the law comes into affect and if it means i cant have my bike then il store it or sell it and wait out til my full (only 2 years away) i can stil hav the sneaky ride tho as they gota catch me and prove it :D


You could of course just get your full licence if capable. And if not capable, why not contact one of the KB mentors to up-skill?

[Jantar]

..... but if its comes to it i think il just have to put on some weight to try make it legal :D .... :(
That won't work. It is the power to weight ratio of the bike alone, not bike and rider.

[rgv250]

yea im pretty sure im just going to sell it. im 25 in 2 years so can get my full then. maybe with the law changing like this i mite b able to ride something slightly bigger and quicker maybe with the rite tune... im happy with the rgv and handling and performance but something bit bigger i wouldnt complain... im just pissed i took ages to find a 91 vj22 rgv250 for my learners and now it looks like it was waste of time. its my only transport so i cant really afford to not being able to ride it either atm

[riffer]

We have until 2012. If BRONZ or MAG are worth anything, they will be heavily lobbying LTNZ or whatever they currently call themselves for input.

I'll cheerfully volunteer to be on any committee or representative group we come up with for either group.

My personal view ?

This will be good for motorcycling, especially if it can be made a realistic limit. Thats got to be worth lobbying for, especially of they dont apply similar limits to learner car drivers.

The Moped law will mean that those wishing to have a moped need a moped OR motorcycle licence. It should be easy for motorcycle shops to steer new moped riders to a motorcycle licence.

Yeah, it's happening Dave. I think moped sales will fall through the floor more likely though...

As for a realistic limit, like everything else to do with road safety (sic) look to Victoria as a start point.

And those who think it's just for bikes, I believe you may be surprised. I'm sure (although I have NO information to prove it) that bikes will be the start. If this is proven to work they'll try it on car licenses. And I couldn't be happier about that. Let them start to drive at 16, and kw/tonne ratios until at least age 18.

I'd like to see defensive riding course better tailored towards motorcyclists, unlike the car based ones we have at present. I'd like to see much more difficult driving and riding tests.

How about a basic handling skills test like this:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gTO2s7wyrFs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gTO2s7wyrFs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[GOONR]

....

And those who think it's just for bikes, I believe you may be surprised. I'm sure (although I have NO information to prove it) that bikes will be the start. If this is proven to work they'll try it on car licenses. And I couldn't be happier about that. Let them start to drive at 16, and kw/tonne ratios until at least age 18.

riffer, I think you are right, I'm sure that I read somewhere today that they are looking at power restrictions for learner / young car drivers.

[Squiggles]

riffer, I think you are right, I'm sure that I read somewhere today that they are looking at power restrictions for learner / young car drivers.

Here? (http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/actions+young+driver+safety+get+green+light)

Q & A Section (http://www.transport.govt.nz/saferjourneys/frequentlyaskedquestions/Pages/Youngdriverspackage-FAQs.aspx)

Page 36 of the Original Safer Journeys Discussion Document (http://www.transport.govt.nz/saferjourneys/Documents/SaferJourneyStrategy.pdf)

[GOONR]

Here? (http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/actions+young+driver+safety+get+green+light)

Q & A Section (http://www.transport.govt.nz/saferjourneys/frequentlyaskedquestions/Pages/Youngdriverspackage-FAQs.aspx)

Page 36 of the Original Safer Journeys Discussion Document (http://www.transport.govt.nz/saferjourneys/Documents/SaferJourneyStrategy.pdf)

Yup, that was it. Cheers :)

[schrodingers cat]

How about a basic handling skills test like this:



Hows his risk assessment abilities?

I'm not putting down the aquisition of skills but skill without judgement is a crash waiting to happen

[\m/]

I'll probably be getting a 2nd generation 250 Bandit in a fews weeks, about 130kw per tonne with 90kg rider. The power/weight ratio is about the same as a stock VX SS Commodore, so it should keep me entertained till I get my full. :niceone: They should bring in power limits for learner/restricted car drivers though, people can legally drive a 1000kw/tonne car on their learners if they have the money to build it.

[v8s&2wheels]

Well according to that, given my actual weight, mine comes in at 219KW/tonne...hurhurhur...:devil2:.....course I am NOT on a restricted licence.....

Interesting.. power to weight ratio of my bike in dry weight and at the crank is 860kw per tonne (thats a nice high figure)

Power to weight ratio of my bike in wet weight with me on it is 535kw per tonne.

Thats a huge difference. Wish i weighed nothing so i could experinece a power to weight of 860kw/tonne that would be INSANE

And if i change back to old school terms thats 1157hp per 1000kgs. WOW

[avgas]

I reckon should be 80kw a ton for learners.

Noobs are fucken stupid squids. and need to learn how to make 10kw go fast first.

[The Pastor]

This law is point less.

It will not achieve anything, even with car drivers.


How many riders do you know that are on a 250 currently and its too much power for them? Sure there are the two stroke 250's that put out a lot of power but how many realistically are out there on the roads? not many. Of that few, how many have caused a learner rider to bin? Few of the Few.

Now how many learners have crashed riding the lower power 4 strokes? Many Multitudes more. The problem is not the power, its rider training.

Now if this were to go onto car drivers / boy racers. Again how many boy racers are on the road? Not many. How many of them are driving sensibly and the power of the car causes them to crash? NONE. Crashes are random multi-factor events. I would wager that most boy racer accidents are from doing skids and driving recklessly out side of there skill base. I know, because Ive done it before. I know because I've seen lots of mates do this. I know because Ive driven with skidmark.

Is anyone naive enough to think that reducing the power reduces the ability to drive like a mad man? You should of seen me in my 1983 1.3L hondamatic. it had 2 gears, yet it still could do skids and take corners at 130km/hr.

This law is pointless, a waste of time and a huge waste of money. It dose have massive public support however. It will achieve nothing apart from the issuing of more tickets.

Having said all that. I'm a huge supporter of this law. Why? It'll drop the 250 bike prices down, I hope!

[Ferkletastic]

I'll probably be getting a 2nd generation 250 Bandit in a fews weeks, about 130kw per tonne with 90kg rider. The power/weight ratio is about the same as a stock VX SS Commodore, so it should keep me entertained till I get my full. :niceone: They should bring in power limits for learner/restricted car drivers though, people can legally drive a 1000kw/tonne car on their learners if they have the money to build it.


My first bike was a first gen bandit 250, awesome lil bike revved like a crazy thing (17k redline) and was a blast to throw around. Did 15,000k on her with next to no problems including heaps of open road.

[bastardsquad]

My Er6n appears on the 'approved for learners' list. I guess this means that those who crowed that they and Suzuki 650's were in for a big price drop after the rego increases may well be wrong eh? I'm actually surprised that it makes the list, i'm sure I read somewhere that it has more torque than a CBR600. Seems power(aka potential danger factor in this context) is measured in peak hp output at peak revs...but realistically who rides like that everyday on the street in a 50km/h speed zone? High torque at low revs when accelerating is arguably equally dangerous for new riders isnt it surely?

[The Pastor]

My Er6n appears on the 'approved for learners' list. I guess this means that those who crowed that they and Suzuki 650's were in for a big price drop after the rego increases may well be wrong eh? I'm actually surprised that it makes the list, i'm sure I read somewhere that it has more torque than a CBR600. Seems power(aka potential danger factor in this context) is measured in peak hp output at peak revs...but realistically who rides like that everyday on the street in a 50km/h speed zone? High torque at low revs when accelerating is arguably equally dangerous for new riders isnt it surely?

if you buy into the power = bad

just like speed = killed

Load of political bs

[Muppet]

Good thread, but ponder this. What if you have a 2 tonne Hog, weigh 150 kg and yer Hog puts out a whopping 65 bhp? Are the gummint going to give you a horsepower credit?????

[Cheesy]

hmm a 650 berg on the oz list, that would be fun around town

[slofox]

Interesting.. power to weight ratio of my bike in dry weight and at the crank is 860kw per tonne (thats a nice high figure)

Power to weight ratio of my bike in wet weight with me on it is 535kw per tonne.

Thats a huge difference. Wish i weighed nothing so i could experinece a power to weight of 860kw/tonne that would be INSANE

And if i change back to old school terms thats 1157hp per 1000kgs. WOW


My current bike delivers 490kw per on its own. Load my fat arse aboard plus a full tank of gas and it drops to around 325

[riffer]

Hows his risk assessment abilities?

I'm not putting down the aquisition of skills but skill without judgement is a crash waiting to happen


What you talkin' bout Willis? Basic Handling skills have little to do with risk assessment. That's a completely different kettle of fish.

[riffer]

Good thread, but ponder this. What if you have a 2 tonne Hog, weigh 150 kg and yer Hog puts out a whopping 65 bhp? Are the gummint going to give you a horsepower credit?????

Sure. But they'll offset it against the carbon deficit. You still owe money. Sorry.

[\m/]

I'm expecting bikes with high torque/weight ratios to become quite popular once the law comes in. Example: two bikes have 150kw/tonne, but one of them has twice as much torque. Obviously the bike with more torque will be faster.

[Yow Ling]

I'm expecting bikes with high torque/weight ratios to become quite popular once the law comes in. Example: two bikes have 150kw/tonne, but one of them has twice as much torque. Obviously the bike with more torque will be faster.
Really? Wont it just rev out lower? Please explain what is "faster" accelerate faster ? more top speed faster? get demerits faster?

Its all a bit academic really , if the bike is on the list you can have it , if its not you cant.

[JR1]

This law is point less.

It will not achieve anything, even with car drivers.


How many riders do you know that are on a 250 currently and its too much power for them? Sure there are the two stroke 250's that put out a lot of power but how many realistically are out there on the roads? not many. Of that few, how many have caused a learner rider to bin? Few of the Few.

Now how many learners have crashed riding the lower power 4 strokes? Many Multitudes more. The problem is not the power, its rider training.

Now if this were to go onto car drivers / boy racers. Again how many boy racers are on the road? Not many. How many of them are driving sensibly and the power of the car causes them to crash? NONE. Crashes are random multi-factor events. I would wager that most boy racer accidents are from doing skids and driving recklessly out side of there skill base. I know, because Ive done it before. I know because I've seen lots of mates do this. I know because Ive driven with skidmark.

Is anyone naive enough to think that reducing the power reduces the ability to drive like a mad man? You should of seen me in my 1983 1.3L hondamatic. it had 2 gears, yet it still could do skids and take corners at 130km/hr.

This law is pointless, a waste of time and a huge waste of money. It dose have massive public support however. It will achieve nothing apart from the issuing of more tickets.

Having said all that. I'm a huge supporter of this law. Why? It'll drop the 250 bike prices down, I hope!


Fuckin aye spot on.

The publics perception of bikers will ensure this legislation is passed without a doubt - but in all honesty what they know?sweet fuck all

[miloking]

Having said all that. I'm a huge supporter of this law. Why? It'll drop the 250 bike prices down, I hope!

Keep your shitty 250s who cares about the over inflated price nobody wants to ride them anyway (my first bike was 400 and guess what iam still alive)....also this law will only over inflate prices of the "approved" bikes instead and achieve nothing!

[The Pastor]

Keep your shitty 250s who cares about the over inflated price nobody wants to ride them anyway (my first bike was 400 and guess what iam still alive)....also this law will only over inflate prices of the "approved" bikes instead and achieve nothing!

Well I like them, and I ride them.

And i'll tell you what, your 1000cc wont be the first 1000cc bike i've given the learn to.

[scumdog]

Fuckin aye spot on.

The publics perception of bikers will ensure this legislation is passed without a doubt - but in all honesty what they know?sweet fuck all


Too many bikers are REALLY really good at giving the public a crap perception about bikers, the fact the public 'know' f.a. doesn't matter.

[Spazman727]

From this thread it seems that the law assumes that the rider is about 90kg. That means since I'm only about 65kg, does that mean the bike I could have would, in reality, have a higher power to weight ratio than someone who weighs 90 kg or more?

Also, while I agree with the new law because some 250s are as fast, if not faster, than some 650s, doesn't it mean that a small guy like me could get a heavy 650 and be allowed to ride it, but since I'm small (and therefore not particularly strong) the bike could be heavier than I was able to handle? I understand that the weight doesn't really matter when you are going, but stopped at lights etc the weight could be an issue. I know this would be the same as when someone goes from their restricted to their full, but they, obviously,(hopefully?) have far more experience with how to handle a bike at low speeds than a brand new learner.

[Spazman727]

Yeah, it's happening Dave. I think moped sales will fall through the floor more likely though...

As for a realistic limit, like everything else to do with road safety (sic) look to Victoria as a start point.

And those who think it's just for bikes, I believe you may be surprised. I'm sure (although I have NO information to prove it) that bikes will be the start. If this is proven to work they'll try it on car licenses. And I couldn't be happier about that. Let them start to drive at 16, and kw/tonne ratios until at least age 18.


But that would mean drivers would be able to drive really powerful cars at the same time as they are allowed to drink. It's definitely a good idea to restrict car drivers' power to weight ratio, but they should have it until they have their full.

[gatch]

I think it will be good news if your motorcycle shop is full of heavy and weak motorcycles.

Sales on harleys will sky rocket...

Fucking government.

Time for another guy fawkes anyone ?

[pete376403]

hmm a 650 berg on the oz list, that would be fun around town

An IT465 (also on the Oz list) with some decent tyres could make an amusing learner bike, too.

[quickbuck]

From this thread it seems that the law assumes that the rider is about 90kg. That means since I'm only about 65kg, does that mean the bike I could have would, in reality, have a higher power to weight ratio than someone who weighs 90 kg or more?


It does mean you will have a better power to weight ratio, however it wouldn't have the same effect on performance as actually riding the bike better!

[Dare]

660 is the absolute limit, there is nothing on the list over 660cc (bearing in mind, this is the Australian list , we don't have one yet, the NZ government have said they will copy the Australian list) .

I see RFV400 on the list but not VFR. In fact I see alot of odd gaps, but then does Auz even import the same range of bikes as us? Coz if they don't people are gonna be annoyed!

Truth be told people can crash anything, as long as 650+ bikes and I-4 600 super sports (and maybe some of the more insane motards) aren't on the list I think there shouldn't be all this micromanaging.

[GSF_Lou]

I had no idea of this law change until a friend mentioned it today.
I see that the bike I've just bought (250 Bandit) isnt on the aussie list of acceptable or unacceptable. :blink:

[St_Gabriel]

I had no idea of this law change until a friend mentioned it today.
I see that the bike I've just bought (250 Bandit) isnt on the aussie list of acceptable or unacceptable. :blink:

I think it is that anything up to and including 250 is legal unless specifically excluded.

[GSF_Lou]

I hope so. Although if they take till 2012 to change the laws I should have a full licence by then anyway.

[Suntoucher]

Any idea when it will happen? GV650 falls under the criteria and was going to get one when I get my full, 2012 will say I've already got it, but earlier would be nicer.

[St_Gabriel]

Any idea when it will happen? GV650 falls under the criteria and was going to get one when I get my full, 2012 will say I've already got it, but earlier would be nicer.

Be careful with that suntoucher, from my understanding the GV650 is a "LAMS" version with a lower power output than standard, which is listed on the registration papers. Hyosung can and will remove the restriction to bring the bike up to full power but are obliged to report it to the relevant state/territory registration authority that the bike is no longer LAMS compliant and not able to be ridden on a learners or provisional license.

Im now in a hurry to get through my learners and restricted as i want to be able to sell my 250 for a semi reasonable amount. (still 6 months away at the absolute earliest)

[Blackflagged]

Good thing about a GV650 or DR650 is it`s deem safe for learners, yet over 600cc so "dangerous" and the Govt collects a bigger Tax :yes: $$$$

This may have been mentioned before elsewere, but is relevant to current thread;we take no responsibility for reposts.

[st00ji]

yeah i had that same thought ^^

hopefully someone will realise the silliness of this and if they insist on setting up ACC like that it will be changed to a power/weight ratio thing.

though in reality its not so much the power of the bikes as the lack of brain power of the riders thats making the big bike market look so dangerous i reckon

[Suntoucher]

Be careful with that suntoucher, from my understanding the GV650 is a "LAMS" version with a lower power output than standard, which is listed on the registration papers. Hyosung can and will remove the restriction to bring the bike up to full power but are obliged to report it to the relevant state/territory registration authority that the bike is no longer LAMS compliant and not able to be ridden on a learners or provisional license.

Im now in a hurry to get through my learners and restricted as i want to be able to sell my 250 for a semi reasonable amount. (still 6 months away at the absolute earliest)

Ah, thanks for that. I see what you mean. I wonder if it's possible to derestrict it myself...

[St_Gabriel]

Ah, thanks for that. I see what you mean. I wonder if it's possible to derestrict it myself...
Yes, but dont get found out cause you dont want to fuck up anyone else's chance of getting a GV650 if they say " Stuff 'em, they abused it so now not allowed"

Though, having said that, TPTB may not realise its a restricted version and just allow the normal model because " Its on the list"

[truckin]

any1 no what the power to weight ratio on aye honda vfr400 1991

found somewhere where it said it weighs 162kgs dry its 44 kws @12500 rpm is this ok when the laws change for a l plater

[ducatilover]

The VFR400 doesn't come under the LAMS list, the RVF400 does, mainly because Honda lied about the power at some stage.

[SMOKEU]

I'm still yet to find out how the power to weight ratio is supposed to be measured. Dry weight or curb weight? What about the rider weight?

[truckin]

thanx for that ducatilover

[mossy1200]

I'm still yet to find out how the power to weight ratio is supposed to be measured. Dry weight or curb weight? What about the rider weight?

apparently aus uses bike weight plus 80kg rider plus 10kg petrol against KW to give power per ton.Would assume they using the same.There is a list of approved but also a clause that the list can be changed at any time with no notice.