HMNZS Canterbury - Another floating bathtub

[Winston001]

Can you believe this?? Our nice new multi-purpose support ship:

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/natcional/22105/navy039s-newest-ship-get-20m-fix

After the debacle of the HMNZS Charles Upham which pitched and rolled so much it was never used by the NZ Navy, the new ship the Canterbury is found to be much the same. Potentially dangerous, not safe in steep seas (anyone in the Navy notice the Southern Ocean.....:angry2:) needs $20 mill spent on it - and then it still won't be up to scratch.

[Swoop]

Another big "thank you" goes out to the labour gubbinment...

[sAsLEX]

Another big "thank you" goes out to the labour gubbinment...

But they followed the correct Tender process.......... and surprisingly Tenix won the contract.........and as with all cynics I am now wearing my surprised face at the outcome! :innocent:

[Pussy]

Another big "thank you" goes out to the labour gubbinment...

Swoop, let me explain... It's another big FUCK YOU to the Liarbore gummint

[Swoop]

Swoop, let me explain... It's another big FUCK YOU to the Liarbore gummint
It is another "thanks for letting us waste your tax dollars" event.
Just like the inshore patrolboats. Guess how many of them are seaworthy and have been accepted into the inventory?

As if they have enough crews to man them either!:rolleyes:

[Jerry74]

Hmmmm our defence force lol lol I know why I left it.

Q. What's the difference between the Circus and the NZ Defence force ???

A. Circus have bigger tents but defence force have a shitload more clowns !!!!


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[mowgli]

does anyone here actually know what they're talking about or is this pretty much based on the slant presented by the media?

Oh I forgot - this is kb.

[Swoop]

does anyone here actually know what they're talking about or is this pretty much based on the slant presented by the media?
A pretty good idea.
Did you ever go aboard the mighty HMNZS Charles Upham?

[sAsLEX]

does anyone here actually know what they're talking about or is this pretty much based on the slant presented by the media?

Oh I forgot - this is kb.

Some of us may be qualified to answer more than they can type in this public forum.

[mowgli]

Some of us may be qualified to answer more than they can type in this public forum.

And i might be one of them. A pity though that all the good aspects of Protector are ignored in favour of cheap media spin.

[mowgli]

A pretty good idea.
Did you ever go aboard the mighty HMNZS Charles Upham?

Never had the pleasure. If the project had been allowed to run it's course then HMNZS Charles Upham would be in service with the RNZN today. Unfortunately the goal posts were shifted rather unceremoniously dooming her to failure. I feel most for the Upham family. It must have been awful to have his name disrespected by the media so badly.

[sAsLEX]

And i might be one of them. A pity though that all the good aspects of Protector are ignored in favour of cheap media spin.

Well we are still waiting for the good aspects to turn up........

[McJim]

NZ should just buy some slightly soiled Polaris or Tridents and nuke up like everyone else. You have plenty of places in Fiordland to build bases for them.

[Toaster]

Hmmmm our defence force lol lol I know why I left it.

Q. What's the difference between the Circus and the NZ Defence force ???

A. Circus have bigger tents but defence force have a shitload more clowns !!!!


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Same for the police.

This is often why both careers lose their good experienced staff and replace them with children or less than ideal candfidates to fill staffing quotas.

[sAsLEX]

Pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Same for the police.

This is often why both careers lose their good experienced staff and replace them with children or less than ideal candfidates to fill staffing quotas.

And the recent pay cut to our technical staff is going to help heaps!

[Toaster]

And the recent pay cut to our technical staff is going to help heaps!

Pay cut????????? In THIS economic environment? Poor sods!:angry:

[Winston001]

Never had the pleasure. If the project had been allowed to run it's course then HMNZS Charles Upham would be in service with the RNZN today. Unfortunately the goal posts were shifted rather unceremoniously dooming her to failure. I feel most for the Upham family. It must have been awful to have his name disrespected by the media so badly.

Agreed regarding the travesty suffered by the good name of Charlie Upham.

Mowgli - I've got an open mind, tell us why the Upham should have been retained?

And why the independant report on the Canterbury - which hasn't been created by the media - isn't as daming as it reads?

Seriously, if there are positive aspects which are being ignored, share. Always good to learn.

[Skyryder]

If Canterbury needs a 'patch' up then the boat's got the right name.


Skyryder

[Swoop]

If the project had been allowed to run it's course then HMNZS Charles Upham would be in service with the RNZN today.

Thank goodness it isn't.
That ship was designed for the North Sea. There are considerable differences in wavelengths and sea conditions encountered between there and the Pacific. The same mistake was made with the Lake Class patrolboats. The navy had the option of a slightly longer version but made the wrong decision on that deal also.

Upham was also too light. Remember that it was designed to carry large amounts of freight and traffic across the channel to European ports. As such, it rolled like crazy and had to have shipping containers filled with weight, placed inside to attempt an "easy fix".


I feel most for the Upham family. It must have been awful to have his name disrespected by the media so badly.
The Army took the affair as nothing but a complete insult, having the good name of a brave and dedicated soldier associated with a slow, freight mover...


The "new" Canterbury is a great concept. Multi-role with an emphasis on disaster support.
Let's hope that the designers have learned from errors of the past... (Tui, anyone?)

[R6_kid]

The "new" Canterbury is a great concept. Multi-role with an emphasis on disaster support.
Let's hope that the designers have learned from errors of the past... (Tui, anyone?)

I get the feeling that a 'helicopter carrier' such as what the RAN and RN would have been more beneficial. The 'new' Canterbury looks like a cruise ship that got the wrong paint job, and had its nice pool and beautiful women replaced with a big landing pad at the back.

Theres a lot to say about buying proven machinery - the C-130 and P-3K comes to mind. We have enough allies to know which of their ships work well in situations we would face, the only thing that would need changing is the electronics - but thats why sAsLEX has a job!

[Hitcher]

Don't just blame the Gummint. The Canterbury was the Navy's preferred option.

[sAsLEX]

Don't just blame the Gummint. The Canterbury was the Navy's preferred option.

There would of been no political pressure to choose from the tender process a company such as Tenix at all? I mean thats why there is the process and the top tender is chosen not the one that anyone could of said would win the bid before the bid was put out?

No pressure to use a NZ shipyard?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm



No politics my arse.



Its just a shame VTFitzroy didn't win the fair tender process.......

[Timber020]

Another big "thank you" goes out to the labour gubbinment...

The HMNZS Charles Upham was commissioned under a national govt, shouldnt they have had it built right in the first place? Military spending screw ups are nearly always military spending screw ups. A long history of wastage and bad decisions throughout the world.

Find out about the saga of the Meindl boots.

[sAsLEX]

Find out about the saga of the Meindl boots.

Boots must be the most complex things in the world, after a few thousand years of wearing them they are still the bane of most defence forces!

[jonbuoy]

They got a hell of a lot for the money - 1 x MRV, 2x OPV's, 4 x IPVs for nearly the price of one frigate, and arguably more useful to NZ and the defense forces. The MRV is based on a popular Ferry design and if it was unstable would never have passed class. From what I hear the seatrials on the IPV's went well - its more the classification societies holding up the IPV handovers. You can't expect full mil spec on a civvy budget.

[KiwiRat]

Pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Same for the police.

This is often why both careers lose their good experienced staff and replace them with children or less than ideal candfidates to fill staffing quotas.


And the recent pay cut to our technical staff is going to help heaps!

Uh guys, i think you will find that that last month the three services had a pretty good pay review. Pay rates are very comparable to their civilian counterparts. I've seen the spreadsheet myself, so this isn't hearsay.

A Warrant Officer in the Technical branches, with 2 years seniority now $107,000.

[sAsLEX]

Uh guys, i think you will find that that last month the three services had a pretty good pay review. Pay rates are very comparable to their civilian counterparts. I've seen the spreadsheet myself, so this isn't hearsay.

A Warrant Officer in the Technical branches, with 2 years seniority now $107,000.

Yet my Leading Hands will not now see an increase in pay until they get to Chief petty Officer level, as they have decided they were over qualified for the job they do.

And the new figures look a lot bigger as they have included Super in that figure, I know my pay went up 15 odd k overnight, but I didn't get any more in the pocket.

Smoke and mirrors.

Plus because of the pay review we are not getting paid the correct amount as no one really knows what to do with the system at the moment when we get promoted, receive operational allowances etc.......

But what would I know?

[KiwiRat]

You know enough my friend. Don't get bent out of shape. I am after all on your side.

I spent a few years getting bashed about in a Lake Class Patrol craft in the 80's so I know all about substandard gear.

Spent more than a couple of years steaming Leander class frigates around the Far East and beyond, so I know all about having to make do with antiquated gear.

All on what I considered a sub standard salary. But like a lot of other people, my love for the job, and the fun we used to have in between the tough times seemed to make up for it.

[mowgli]

Mowgli - I've got an open mind, tell us why the Upham should have been retained?
There was a plan. The plan would have worked but for a media thrashing that resulted in a political face saving (yer right) decision to cut their losses.


And why the independant report on the Canterbury - which hasn't been created by the media - isn't as daming as it reads?

Seriously, if there are positive aspects which are being ignored, share. Always good to learn.
The NZDF needs sealift capability to move personnel and equipment port to port within the pacific and south east asia - Bougainville, East Timor, Solomon Islands, Vanuatu, exercising with Australia are all prime examples. HMNZS Canterbury is based upon a roll-on-roll-off commercial ferry design that is ideal for this purpose. Regardless of any damning report she will deliver admirably on her main capability.

Yes there are some teething issues with some of her medium/high military capabilities but then these make up only a small portion of what she will actually do. Most of her sea time will be trash hauling. Southern Ocean someone said? There aren't too many communities down there vulnerable to tropical cyclones and we don't exercise troops there either. The southern ocean is a policing operation more suited to a frigate or offshore patrol vessel. Yes Canterbury could be used for that purpose at a pinch but why would you when you've got four other vessels better suited to the task.

I reassert that HMNZS Canterbury is of huge benefit to the NZDF and to New Zealand. Sure there are some teething issues but given time these will be sorted. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[P38]

Can you believe this?? Our nice new multi-purpose support ship:

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/natcional/22105/navy039s-newest-ship-get-20m-fix

After the debacle of the HMNZS Charles Upham which pitched and rolled so much it was never used by the NZ Navy, the new ship the Canterbury is found to be much the same. Potentially dangerous, not safe in steep seas (anyone in the Navy notice the Southern Ocean.....:angry2:) needs $20 mill spent on it - and then it still won't be up to scratch.

Yes but she is gonna make an excellent dive site one day :yes::yes::yes:

Soon I hope :msn-wink:

I can hardly wait :D:D:D

[sAsLEX]

They got a hell of a lot for the money - 1 x MRV, 2x OPV's, 4 x IPVs for nearly the price of one frigate, and arguably more useful to NZ and the defense forces. The MRV is based on a popular Ferry design and if it was unstable would never have passed class. From what I hear the seatrials on the IPV's went well - its more the classification societies holding up the IPV handovers. You can't expect full mil spec on a civvy budget.

Frigates doing what they do best!
http://www.defence.gov.au/opfalconer/images/gallery/070403/NGS%20Picture%203_lo.jpg

http://www.navynews.co.uk/articles/2003/0305/1003052201.asp


Shame aunty helen didn't let us play :(

[NighthawkNZ]

Yes the Navy wanted Canterbury but the specs they asked for and what they got are two totally different things...

Yeah there will be teething issues.. as with any new design... but over all I reckon it is a still a step in the right direction.

[sAsLEX]

Yes the Navy wanted Canterbury but the specs they asked for and what they got are two totally different things...

Yeah there will be teething issues.. as with any new design... but over all I reckon it is a still a step in the right direction.

And right now its blocking my view of the city!

I am just glad we have sky on these tubs these days else it would kill our tv recption as well :msn-wink:

[jonbuoy]

Frigates doing what they do best!


http://www.navynews.co.uk/articles/2003/0305/1003052201.asp


Shame aunty helen didn't let us play :(

You can play with your 50 cals :eek:

[sAsLEX]

You can play with your 50 cals :eek:

Anything less than 5 inches is a pistol......

[Swoop]

Frigates doing what they do best!
Frigging?

(friggin' 10 chars...)

[NighthawkNZ]

You can play with your 50 cals :eek:

Many eons ago I had a play with the .50 cal :) which was weird I was RP... but aboard HMNZS Pukaki the last tour of the Lake Class PC...

Ok I'm showing my age now :doh:

[KiwiRat]

Many eons ago I had a play with the .50 cal :) which was weird I was RP... but aboard HMNZS Pukaki the last tour of the Lake Class PC...

Ok I'm showing my age now :doh:

Yeah, we used to save our training ammunition up on HMNZS Taupo, and have a mega shoot for the day. everyone got 200 rounds on the .50 cal, and 400 rounds on the 5.56 mm Minimi Light Machine Gun.

We would make up targets out of empty 20 litre drums tied together in groups of 4.

Great days.

[sAsLEX]

Don't just blame the Gummint. The Canterbury was the Navy's preferred option.

Oh and I would like to point out that it is not the Navy or the Defence force that deals with major acquisitions it is the Ministry of Defence.




We would make up targets out of empty 20 litre drums tied together in groups of 4.

.

What no killer tomatoes?

[Hitcher]

Oh and I would like to point out that it is not the Navy or the Defence force that deals with major acquisitions it is the Ministry of Defence.

The Canterbury was the Navy's preferred option. In this case the Navy got what the Navy wanted.

[NighthawkNZ]

The Canterbury was the Navy's preferred option. In this case the Navy got what the Navy wanted.

Actually no they didn't get what they wanted,... the specs they asked for are not what they got...

and as I said before there will be teething issues with any new design

[NighthawkNZ]

Thank goodness it isn't.
That ship was designed for the North Sea. There are considerable differences in wavelengths and sea conditions encountered between there and the Pacific. The same mistake was made with the Lake Class patrolboats. The navy had the option of a slightly longer version but made the wrong decision on that deal also.

The Navy does not make any final decision... the Lake class Patrol boats were cut back from the orginal size because the didn't think they would be able to ship the over... Muldon gubberbent then made the cut backs not the navy or even the MoD
and yes they were bad in rough seas... I nearly broke my leg being thrown out of my pit once...


Upham was also too light. Remember that it was designed to carry large amounts of freight and traffic across the channel to European ports. As such, it rolled like crazy and had to have shipping containers filled with weight, placed inside to attempt an "easy fix".

Any ship that is designed to carry cargo has the same issues... even many of the larger carriers, LHD's and even LSD's if the are lightly loaded they will role... to make it worse the carries are also flat bottoms...


The "new" Canterbury is a great concept. Multi-role with an emphasis on disaster support.
Let's hope that the designers have learned from errors of the past... (Tui, anyone?)

She has had teething issues but most of the remedies have now been completed and now starting to show her worth. I believe she is of to RIMPAC 2014