RGV SPAC

[wickedstuff]

Hi guys (and i believe gals 2)
anybody here know in's and out's of RGV Spac units what they control on the bike? who in NZ can modify them (properly) and how do i contact these ppl?
thks.

All the best!
nearlly end of jan already! where did new yr go? lol.

[curious george]

The RGV forum has all that stuff in the techinical section, and I believe there is a guy in Whenuapai woh can do tricky things with SAPC boxes. I don't really know, as I heard a story that they were to tricky/not enough of them to bother with. meh.
There is a guy on the RGV or Aprillia forum, (forget which) who can do it, but he's in malaysia, and I've not heard much from him recently.
What is it you want to change on the SAPC?
It's probably cheaper to buy a second hand kit set from e-bay or something.
I've played around with a couple, and there doesn't seem to be much difference on the dyno anyway, just the valve opening times.
Your biggest HP gains are with the pipes, and Colinslikorns o-ring mod thingy/squish set correctly etc....
Have you done anything with the suspension? Might not show much in the way of HP, but might make it faster

[wickedstuff]

Hey George, how is it? thks for your reply!
now about this spac unit! :) you can correct me later if im wrong?
from what i understand so far, the spac controls the pv's and igition timing and maybe some thing else? perhaps electric pulses to carbs or some thing else? who knows? the idea that i have is that rather than try buy a race spac (to hard to find) im thinking if some has the knowledge to modify the spac the igintion curve for me. you could advise me better perhaps? yes i do agree a set of pipes would be a easy option which i will be doing later! at this stage its new piston kits and carbon reeds and new coils and maybe this spac thing? tell me what aftermkt pistons (with 2 rings) do you know of? any good contacts at good prices? yes agree suspension upgrade is top idea i will talk you another time about this, but get a few more ideas from ppl about pistons first.

All the best!

[Kwaka-Kid]

ProX is the way to go man! Awesome :)

otherwise MAYBE TKRJ or Shindy?.

Wiseco do them, but looking at more $ + having a forged piston = more chance of the deadly seize.

Logan.

[speedpro]

ProX is the way to go man! Awesome :)

otherwise MAYBE TKRJ or Shindy?.

Wiseco do them, but looking at more $ + having a forged piston = more chance of the deadly seize.

Logan.

Agree with most of that. The Pro-X stuff I've used has always been good. The TKRJ piston I've used was cheap and also a good bit of gear, certainly better than the price would have indicated. Wiseco I'm not so sure of. I have no personal experiance of the brand but have heard of problems with seizing when assembled with reasonable clearances. One option to consider if you aren't stuck on the single ring idea is to visit a kart shop and check out what's available in the size you need. You might need to raise or lower the barrel but kart pistons are good prices and really good quality. If the pistons you get are quite short you might be able to get a Pro-X rod that's a bit longer but with the same size bearings. I have ended up with a 4mm shorter piston from pin to crown but a 4mm longer rod so it all ends up the same, more or less. I haven't actually seen a forged piston for a 2-stroke, but then again I've never looked, but in the 4-stroke they are the go. "JE" are a very good brand but don't know about for 2-strokes.

[curious george]

As I understand it, you need the kit SAP, CDI, and the pipes to make it worth while... One is no good without all the other bits.
Carbon reeds are.... a waste of money far all the most fanatical rider. No more HP, but possibly you can get them to give a little more midrange.
You got dodgy coils?
ANyway, these guys here (http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15557&highlight=o-ring+mod) really know their stuff.
I still quite new to it, but if you follow this guide, and ask questions along the way, you should get a pretty fast bike.
What does it make right now? I assume you have dyno'ed it?
Pro-x seem to a reasonable replacement for OEM, but some of the racers prefer the TZ pistons, or Wiseco. They are single ring though, and a bit stronger, but they dont last any longer, if that makes any sense....

[Kwaka-Kid]

ProX pretty much is OEM man, i mean all the japanese pistons use the same rings, and most of those pistons like TKRJ are actually the OEM pistons for the bikes! and many people sling off about them etc... sheesh :P

[wickedstuff]

Hi who makes "otherwise MAYBE TKRJ or Shindy?. what manufacture?
ive never heard of these pistons? yes i have heard of pro-x they are japanese company they make the rgv rods, the pistons are same as oem (all cast)
pro-x are expensive compared to oem, but thks all the same for mentioning it!
at this stage its going to be hard to go past "wessnor" forged pistons which are german made with anti scuff coating. But id like to know more about the TKRJ and SHINDY pistons? never heard of these? if some one could please enlighten me! most RGV are dynoed at 55hp give or take 1 HP. put a good set of pipes on and easy +5 Hp. Im doing a few mods but the pistons are the core of the bike to start with bolt ons can be later! but like to know more about this spac unit what it controls and what it doesnt control? i have a feeling it controls the spark timing and pv, and rev limiter! anything else?

thks
All the best!

[Kwaka-Kid]

err, well...
TKRJ (formally known as TKR) are japanese pistons, infact mostly make the OEM gear, so it all comes out of the same factory/machine. all those bloody japanese pistons damn near do! :P
ProX are VERY well priced, usually looking at 1/3 of the price of genuine, maybe 1/2 if you are being dicked by your retailer.
To be honest, im not fully up to spec on Shindys gear, however as far as im made aware they are no different then OEM/TKR/ProX... they are all identical looking pistons. I think shindy are often die-cast (sp?) as opposed to cast, and again as opposed to Wiseco's forged.

To be perfectly honest wicked, i think all the japanese made pistons are of equal build including OEM (and i really should be saying go proX here!).. so its a bit of sales/marketing bullshit and people read into stuff too much that they read on american forums (oh yes, ive seen it.. e.g My TKR CB250RS(XL250S) piston only lasted 20,000km, whereas i went genuine Honda after that and it lasted 60,000)... Errr, yeah sir, you do realise those 2 pistons came out of the SAME machine? id go have a talk to your engine rebuilder/mechanic before you talk to the companies...

just as people often have to rebuild twins i.e in my recent experience a RD350 from memory winding up with 1 ProX and 1 TKR piston... in that case the pistons did look minorly different, the TKR one looked to be painted black on the under side of the piston :o...

Anyways yeah, will make it my homework to find out more on Shindys products..
and yes TKR make conrods too, just as Longs do, and hey, they all look the same at least, and are all made in japland, chances are they are made from the same machine as OEM even.

[wickedstuff]

Hi kawa,

i priced out oem pistons and they are $59 each but dont inc rings if i added everything up it would have been about 120-130 for suzuki.
i phoned a workshop that can get in parts and they said pro-x kit was 170 each!
if you can get prox cheaper than this? let me know where? id be greatful
yes id say alot of parts are made same japanese factory !

All the best!

[curious george]

$60! For eac piston! Fark, I was quoted about $150!

[Fluffy Cat]

$59 bucks!....are you sure or pulling our plonkers!.

[FzerozeroT]

The SAPC controls the pilot air valve, main air valve, ignition mapping (only rpm variable) and the powervalves (23d10 has a fully variable open-shut cycle)

I'm pretty sure that the ignition timing and powervalves are set at all RPM regardless of throttle position (no vacuum advance/retard) so when a fistfull of throttle is grabbed at low RPM the SAPC adjusts carbs for air/fuel mix

[Kwaka-Kid]

$59?!
christ man tell me where ill buy them then sell them back to the retail shops for twice that wholesale... :)

yeah nah dont really know where to get cheap, anyways gotta run cya.

[wickedstuff]

hey guys na im not pulling your tits! lol, the price im quoting is in sydney, so its AUD if you do phone maybe a good idea not to say how cheap they are so they dont go putting the price up! if they wont send overseas? let me know and i can buy for you (pay me first) and post over. these are the prices i was quoted by 2 different suzuki dealers!
pistons $118.60 for pair.
rings $93.10 for both cyl
small end $14- pair (both cyl)
piston pin (gudgeon pin) $10- ea.
clips are a few bucks each from memory.

oem is the cheapest ive found yet! by far! but im still searching so will let ppl know. i
Action Suzuki motorcycles
74 wentworth Ave
Sydney
61 2 9212 1122.
please dont say how cheap to dealer, dont want these guys putting prices up! if you have trouble getting gear let me know by private mss and i see if i can help?

All the best! :niceone:

[wickedstuff]

thks FZ, i'll add those notes to my book, if you hear any more about spac let me know!

thks.

[Kwaka-Kid]

cheers dude, and that is BLOODY amazing.

u know no supplier in NZ can BUY a little end for under like $15NZD and they put 100% on all parts pretty much

[onearmedbandit]

wickedstuff, I've emailed them a link to this page as its some good advertising for them, might help you get them even cheaper eh?














J/K


PT

[curious george]

wickedstuff, I've emailed them a link to this page as its some good advertising for them, might help you get them even cheaper eh?
J/K
PT

Bstard!



















*j/k

[FzerozeroT]

does anyone have a spare 22d30 SAPC for sale?

[wickedstuff]

Hi Fz,
ive been thinking of this spac comments you wrote ! very useful to us!
by the if my spac unit is the unrestrited one, which i think it is? meaning it still has the rev limiter built into it! what is the difference from mine to race kit spac?
i beleive my pv are 2-3 stage operation maybe a kit one is just 1 stage? all or nothing? im not overly worried removing the rev limiter coz the rgv has weak rods and cranks when pushed in the upper revs of racing! so im ok to leave the limiter, but what id like to find more about is, having the ignition maping change for the better power which o spose would automaticlly mean it adjusts the carbs same time? mmmmm food for thought! if anybody has any more comments? please say!

All the best! :niceone:

[curious george]

There is no rev limiter at all, on any SAPC.
Power is limited by timing and valve opening.
Don't try and raise the revs, as you will loose quite a bit power.
Have a look on the forums for dyno graphs, I can't find mine atm.
I didn't see what SAPC box you currently have, but most aussie ones were unrestricted, like the NZ new ones.

[FzerozeroT]

I'm just regurgitating off www.rgv250.co.uk and other sites, I have a 22d00 which is aparrantly a restricted japanese import box. I'm going racing and i think i only have 50 rwhp but I'll get it dynoed this week to find out for sure

[curious george]

Yes, the 22D00 is the restricted jap one, but not for revs...
Do you have another one to compare?
If you are local, I'd love you to try the aprilia one I have, and I may have another one somewhere too.
I dont think this has been done back to back to my knowledge...
Where are you dyno-ing?

[FzerozeroT]

I'm thinking Boyd Honda, (i had a bit of a tiff with Road and Sport) If you wouldn't mind lending them to me I am coming up to Auckland tomorrow. could have them back to you on Saturday

[Kwaka-Kid]

If you do say hi to John @ Boyd for me!

helluvanice guy if somewhat depressing in his tone of voice.

[wickedstuff]

Hi Guys,
my spac is 22d30 which i believe is the unrest one! for some reason i have stuck in my brain that all spac's excpt kit, have a rev limiter! why i say this is ive spoke with some members on rgv250.co.uk and they inform me if i put a race spac on my bike it will rev higher than std, at the moment my bike redlines 12k and at 12 or just after the fuel or spark is switched off (just like reving out a fuel injectored car) so what it means when i hit 11.500 or just after i have to change gear, but at that speed im looking at the road not the bloody tacho lol.
ive been told that the rgv has weak rods and crank when over reved so i dont want to go over 12k, but id like to know more what other difference in power valve timing and ign timing and fuel/air mix the race spac has over std unres spac. one of you guys spoke of dyno your bike before racing it? mmmm i have some ideas id like to run by you. Can you please tell me how often you race? how often you pull the engine down for new rings and/or new pistons? what oil you use? why? i have a product which may help your racing but like to hear more about your bike etc before i say anything.

All the best!

[wickedstuff]

Hi, do we have any members in palmerston nth?

thks.

[FzerozeroT]

I'm currently bidding on those Sagaya Chambers for sale on TradeMe. So none of you barstards bid against me! Then I'll do a back to back with my stock (modified) pipes. As far as racing goes, I havn't actually raced it yet, maybe on the first weekend of march.

[wickedstuff]

Hey Fz, no worries mate i wont bid against you "much" lol just joking!
my chinese flatmate told me if i had anything i wanted copied to make replica he can have it done in china he use to wk for GM there and he said chinese are clever to copy and mega cheap! so keep this in mind some time? id luv a set od sug 's but hard to find and 2 exp.

Good luck with the auction.