Road-craft 'skills'.

[Katman]

However, the concept of 'road-craft is a goody, so here's a Q, James.

How's about you elucidate say, ten, primary road-craft skills. Explain what they are. What they are for. How to go about practicing them, and how to measure progress.



This idea was never going anywhere buried in the other thread.

Here's it's own thread.

[Katman]

If I were to pick one Roadcraft skill that will do more to keep you alive than any other it would be the practice of constantly scanning what is around you and identifying and assessing potential hazards.

[Katman]

And going hand in hand with the above is the 'skill' of concentrating on what you're doing 100% of the time while you're riding (or driving for that matter).

Too many road users (motorcyclists included) seem to operate in lah-lah land.

[Wingnut]

And going hand in hand with the above is the 'skill' of concentrating on what you're doing 100% of the time while you're riding (or driving for that matter).

Too many road users (motorcyclists included) seem to operate in lah-lah land.

Who could actually honestly say they concentrate 100% on what they are doing 100% of the time. Near impossibility I'd say.

Awareness is the key to survival.

[Katman]

Who could actually honestly say they concentrate 100% on what they are doing 100% of the time. Near impossibility I'd say.



Fuck, even I wouldn't claim to concentrate 100% of the time.

It's something to aim for though.

[Ixion]

This could be a very valuable thread.

I'll start off with a couple

Vector analysis. Which is a fancy pants way of saying, figure out where other vehicles could go and where their current position and speed and direction suggest they intend to go. The guy who moves in on your lane on the motorway doesn't usually do it all of a sudden. For a second or so before he moves he'll edge slightly out of the normal line

Read the roadside. Large and small. Classic thing like power poles. Trees. Heres a nice corner coming up, on a nice sunny day after a week of rain. Look at all the trees bordering the road,with their branches over the road . Wonder what's round the corner, where it's all shady and the sun won't reach. And look, apart from the trees theres no vegetation on the steep roadside bank. Look at all the ruts the rain has washed into the bank. I wonder where all that dirt and gravel went? Me, I think I'd be slowing down here. A lot.

[Motu]

I agree scanning is the most important road craft skill - a lot of the ''problems'' riders get into is just not being aware of what's coming up next.

[Wingnut]

Fuck, even I wouldn't claim to concentrate 100% of the time.

It's something to aim for though.

So true my man!:niceone:

[Ixion]

Another.

It's not a competition. You don't lose points. The other guy doesn't win

If you're riding along and there's an intersection coming up - you have the right of way. But look, there's a car coming up to the intersection. He's going at a good clip. Maybe, he's going to brake hard and give way to you as he should. You have the right of way. But then again, maybe he isn't. Does not harm to slow down be ready to stop if he doesn't. If he does stop, that's fine, you haven't lost anything. He hasn't won anything. If he doesn't stop - well then it's a good thing you could, eh?

Another

Always always always know what's around you. Not just in front, but behind, and most inportantly to the sides and side rear. I like to keep a empty box of road all round me, but one can't always do that. But at least, always know where you can safely dive to if it all goes pear shaped. When it does, you need to KNOW, right NOW that you can swerve left safely. It's not hard to do, even with blurry bike mirrors.

Another

Use other vehicles as shields. Especially useful on multilane roads. That impatient looking twit waiting at the stop sign ahead, he's watching the line of traffic, looking for a gap. When he sees a gap that doesn't have a car roof in it, he's going to dive for it. If that gap happens to have *you* in it, too bad. He's not going to see you and not going to care. So, use another vehicle to keep him off. He might be willing to dive for that "gap" , even if you're in it, but if you're beside a car, he'd have to take on the car too. He won't do that. Is good at lights , too. Stay beside the bus or truck for a few seconds, until you're though the intersection, then give it gauntlet (Just watch the shield doesn't end up moving in on you though )
'

[puddytat]

Riding within your ability & not getting sucked into ego battles with other riders.....or drivers.

[CookMySock]

I agree scanning is the most important road craft skillI want one of those knight-rider scanners mounted to my helmet.

<img src="http://www.freewebs.com/knightrider-kitt/Knihgt%20Rider%20Scanner.gif">

Maybe we could use it to educate drivers ?

DB

[Wingnut]

I want one of those knight-rider scanners mounted to my helmet.

<img src="http://www.freewebs.com/knightrider-kitt/Knihgt%20Rider%20Scanner.gif">

Maybe we could use it to educate drivers ?

DB

Cool - I loved KITT. Stands for Knight Industries Two Thousand for those not in the know.

[FJRider]

Fuck, even I wouldn't claim to concentrate 100% of the time.

It's something to aim for though.

Just aim LEFT of the centre line, you might live longer...

[jrandom]

Use other vehicles as shields. Especially useful on multilane roads.

+1. Vital skill for everyone who rides in big-city traffic.

I'd also add actively seeking and holding eye contact with car drivers. Particularly those approaching on side roads to the left.

[Ixion]

+1. Vital skill for everyone who rides in big-city traffic.

I'd also add actively seeking and holding eye contact with car drivers. Particularly those approaching on side roads to the left.

Yes. But don't assume that just because you've made eye contact and he's looked right into your eyes, that he will stop. I've had them stare straight at me, and then pull out when I'm a couple of metres away. In fact a givewaway of someone who may be going to do this, is they keep looking at *you* even when you're so close that most people would be looking past you , looking for the next gap. I get *real* suspicious when someone makes eye contact and keeps it. Normal folk will make eye contact , think "OK, bike, can't pull out yet, what's behind him? What's coming the other way? " and look away to look behind you , or the other direction.

[Katman]

When riding with a group of riders be aware of the body language of the rider ahead of you as they disappear around a blind corner.

They will give you advance warning of any hazard that you can't see.

[doc]

If I were to pick one Roadcraft skill that will do more to keep you alive than any other it would be the practice of constantly scanning what is around you and identifying and assessing potential hazards.

Yup "Defensive driving" use to have do course's on it to get certain licence's .
Not much point of being "in the right" when a car has hit you riding a bike . :msn-wink:

[Motu]

Yup "Defensive driving" use to have do course's on it to get certain licence's .


Used to have to do it when convicted of dangerous driving too....got a nice sticker to put on the window to show the Cops you were a reformed naughty boy.

Eye contact is good...keep it - it doesn't mean you exist in his or her consciousness,but like someone throwing a punch,intentions are telegraphed though the eyes.

Know what's around you - that goes for the district you are in and time of day.School buses,dairy herds,milk tankers.....see that tanker trailer parked on the side of the road? There will be a truck coming back for it.Same with stock trucks,low loaders....there are clues to the local activities going on in the area,be aware of them.

[avgas]

imagine you are laser guided, let your eyes track a path on the road as far as you can see......don't aim yourself somewhere you don't want to go.

[avgas]

When riding with a group of riders be aware of the body language of the rider ahead of you as they disappear around a blind corner.

They will give you advance warning of any hazard that you can't see.
Likewise watch the suspension of the car/bike in front - you will notice issues with the road well before your eyes will just looking at the surface.

[FJRider]

When riding with a group of riders be aware of the body language of the rider ahead of you as they disappear around a blind corner.

They will give you advance warning of any hazard that you can't see.

With a two second gap...ensure you have good eyesight... even at 100 km's/hr...thats a good distance...

[bikemike]

Self preservation / restraint - Other road users are NOT out to kill me but they might still kill or maim me today, and they will regret it

Observation and Interpretation - Understand my environment and know where my knowledge is lacking, look and see as much as I can

Predicting what's going to happen next? - It won't happen suddenly (part of this is vector analysis, partly it's human nature)

Knowing and respecting my skills and abilities - mine, my bike's and the two of us together - at this moment

Communicating - with my lights, indicators, hands, head, position, speed, horn, anything!

Planing to stop and be able to stop - can I stop? can I stop? can I stop?

Planing to escape - to somewhere safe

Self reflection - that learning experience will never occur again, use it

Self adjustment - always be prepared to change my mind and change my riding

Keep reminding myself that I have NEVER ridden this bit of road before




11 No absolutes - right wheel track, keep left, 2 seconds, stagger, filtering, .....

On point 3, there was an interesting article in New Scientist, covered quite a few startling observations about how the brain works. Interesting for us is the reassurance that making sense of the world in any way whatsoever requires us to have incredibly efficient probability engines for brains. We should be good at working out what happens next, it's our modus operandi. Of concern is the length of time that can pass between making a decision and acting on it - such that the outcome is determined in advance of recent events. I see that all the time when people pull out on me on roundabouts, they saw me, I know they saw me, but they themselves can't understand how they are now pulling out in front of me given that they saw me - the decision to go was made even a few seconds ago and my arrival on the scene could not change their behaviour, too late!
Here if anyone has full access: http://www.newscientist.com/channel/being-human/mg19826586.100-is-this-a-unified-theory-of-the-brain.html

[dipshit]

Reading and anticipating the road ahead so nothing catches you out by surprise.

To me this is the definition of good road riding skills and a benchmark to aim for....


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... The rider is reading the signs (figuratively) and anticipating danger beforehand... rather than acting in reaction and spending his day abusing other road users like a complete wanker.

He and his bike gets home in one piece at the end of the day having enjoyed a good safe ride.

[Drum]

When lane splitting I like to scan the the wing mirrors of the cars in front of me.
Even the most inattentive drivers tend to have at least a cursory glance before changing lanes - just enough time to prime the brakes.

[ManDownUnder]

Quite seriously put forward - leaving your ego at home.

For me this means having fun, but riding within your limits (wherever they are). It also means learning from mistakes, or near misses or (in my case) an off.

Always ride your own ride. Always work on making it better

[CHOPPA]

The best piece of advice i could give my sister when she was learning to ride was just look at every car etc as if its gonna pull out in front of you and be ready incase they do

[trustme]

Something I keep telling my wife when she rides .
You may be behind , but you never follow, always ride your own road.
If you blindly follow, when the car/bike in front makes a mistake you are likely to repeat the mistake. following means the relax/switch off mode tends to kick in
I know there is a debate about staggered group riding , but I will always ride staggered so I can see past the guy in front , sitting directly behind him means I am subconciously following him & I don't trust anyone not even the guy in front.

[FROSTY]

I've repeated this a lot of times but for me its still totally relavant.

ALWAYS ride as if everyone and everything is out to kill you-Including you yourself.

[Katman]

ALWAYS ride as if everyone and everything is out to kill you......

......but always remember, the person that has the greatest potential to kill you is yourself.

[cs363]

I've repeated this a lot of times but for me its still totally relavant.

ALWAYS ride as if everyone and everything is out to kill. you.


......but always remember, the person that has the greatest potential to kill you is yourself.

Two excellent pieces of advice there which largely summarise many of the other points (all good) in this thread.
Ride safe people :)

[BMWST?]

Another.


Use other vehicles as shields. Especially useful on multilane roads. That impatient looking twit waiting at the stop sign ahead, he's watching the line of traffic, looking for a gap. When he sees a gap that doesn't have a car roof in it, he's going to dive for it. If that gap happens to have *you* in it, too bad. He's not going to see you and not going to care. So, use another vehicle to keep him off. He might be willing to dive for that "gap" , even if you're in it, but if you're beside a car, he'd have to take on the car too. He won't do that. Is good at lights , too. Stay beside the bus or truck for a few seconds, until you're though the intersection, then give it gauntlet (Just watch the shield doesn't end up moving in on you though )
'

dont agree here...dont "hide" behind other vehicles ,like your other skills tho...

Another skill
be aware that its easy as a biker to be in the blind spot of 4(plus) wheelers...a clue here is if you can see their face in their mirrors thay have a good chance of seeing you(if they look) position your self so they can see you esp if overtaking them

[cs363]

dont agree here...dont "hide" behind other vehicles ,like your other skills tho...

Another skill
be aware that its easy as a biker to be in the blind spot of 4(plus) wheelers...a clue here is if you can see their face in their mirrors thay have a good chance of seeing you(if they look) position your self so they can see you esp if overtaking them

I suspect that Ixion's advice may have been lost in translation as he was suggesting to use the vehicles as a shield rather than hiding behind them. Subtle but important difference, but I expect he'll be in to clear that up at some stage.
Very good advice regarding blind spots - I see so many motorcyclists endangering themselves by riding like that, on that subject something that needs mentioning when talking about blind spots are large trucks (especially B trains and semis) if you can't see their mirrors then they most definitely cannot see you. This is especially important for bikers to remember as often your approach speed is such that the truckie probably didn't even see you coming up behind him. A little consideration goes a long way with most (long haul) truckies, I've found them to be very amenable to bikers if treated with some respect, often pulling over to let you go past, seeing how we don't require as much passing room or distance as the average cage.

[FROSTY]

......but always remember, the person that has the greatest potential to kill you is yourself.
Indeed you are right. in fact Ill edit

[Katman]

in fact Ill edit

Good one. Now it looks like I've just repeated you.

[Winston001]

Currently on dial-up so I'll read this thread once its downloaded.

FWIW the skill I value most - and which I picked up from this site - is to look where you want to go in a corner. Moving from an upright bike to a sports bike it's been extremely valuable.

Weighting the outside peg has been good to know too. :D

[FROSTY]

Good one. Now it looks like I've just repeated you.
Fark in mon put a smile on ya dial

[sinfull]

With a two second gap...ensure you have good eyesight... even at 100 km's/hr...thats a good distance...


Fark in mon put a smile on ya dial

I hear peyote cacti are good !

[BMWST?]

I suspect that Ixion's advice may have been lost in translation as he was suggesting to use the vehicles as a shield rather than hiding behind them. Subtle but important difference, but I expect he'll be in to clear that up at some stage.
.

Agreed..just making sure that its important that your space isnt seen as a gap...and its easy for a bike to be hidden from view.

[cs363]

Agreed..just making sure that its important that your space isnt seen as a gap...and its easy for a bike to be hidden from view.


As well. :D :niceone:

[PrincessBandit]

Cool - I loved KITT. Stands for Knight Industries Two Thousand for those not in the know.

snigger snigger, it was really KITTs driver you fancied ay???.....:dodge:
(The Hoff, for those not in the know).

Seriously though, for me something I need to remember to do more is be aware of what might be coming up (fast or out of control) behind me when I'm stationary at an intersection. I'm pretty good with what's in front and coming from the sides but tend to forget the behind bit.

[Sable]

Weighting the outside peg has been good to know too. :D

What does this achieve?

When lanesplitting be very careful even if it seems like there's plenty of room because sometimes maggots like to pull out slightly to block your progress.

[PrincessBandit]

yes, i was quite aware that some cars seemed to take umbrage at my presence and started to creep to whichever side to block me. That meant a number of tempting corridors went "unused". Despite others being quite happy to take the risks I was content with my progess.

[vifferman]

Despite others being quite happy to take the risks I was content with my progess.
That brings up another point.
Patience.
I've probably saved myself some aggro by reminding myself that it's not a race, and asking myself, "Do I really need to be at my destination a few seconds earlier?" While it's a real buzz zipping through traffic, lanesplitting, overtaking, weaving in and out, etc., just dialling back a bit, relaxing, taking the time to look out for hazards, and thinking before you do something could save your life. It also makes you less stressed, and arrive at your destination less tired.

[Winston001]

Originally Posted by Winston001 http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/images/bgold/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1783239#post1783239)
Weighting the outside peg has been good to know too.

What does this achieve?


To be honest, I don't know the physics involved but when I tried it, it immediately felt right. The bike seems more solid on its line and fell into the corner better. Probably it causes the rider to unconsciously counter-steer but that's just a guess.

[Katman]

Learn the difference between 'fun' and 'enjoyment'.

If you want 'fun' on a motorcycle buy a dirt bike.

[Katman]

Train yourself to concentrate the whole time that you're riding. You cannot expect to react to a situation instantaneously if it takes even a fraction of a second to kick start your brain back into action.

[Swoop]

When lanesplitting be very careful even if it seems like there's plenty of room because sometimes maggots like to pull out slightly to block your progress.
Deliberate blocking can earn a cager "penalty points".

[Bass]

Despite the fact that you have excellent brakes, it is VERY likely that the car in front of you can stop a good deal quicker than you can, simply because it has a LOT more rubber on the road. This is actually supported by comparative testing which you can look up if you doubt me.
Further, it probably has ABS which means that Joe Anybody can get close to maximum braking effort with no special skills.
Bear this in mind when picking your following distance and keep updating your possible escape routes.

[swbarnett]

Learn the difference between 'fun' and 'enjoyment'.

If you want 'fun' on a motorcycle buy a dirt bike.
Speak for yourself.

You can have fun on a road bike without putting yourself or anyone else in any danger. Fun does not have to be reckless.

[Katman]

Speak for yourself.

You can have fun on a road bike without putting yourself or anyone else in any danger. Fun does not have to be reckless.

Riding a motorcycle on the road isn't a game.

[swbarnett]

Riding a motorcycle on the road isn't a game.
It doesn't have to be a game to be fun.

For some of us riding is a passion and we spend every moment we're on the road on a bike (I sold the car a few months ago).

A balance must be struck between living and surviving. If we remove ALL risk from life we stop living.

I agree with most of what you say but sometimes you take the surviving a little too far for my liking.

[Ixion]

Look out! The fun police are coming !

[Katman]

It doesn't have to be a game to be fun.

For some of us riding is a passion and we spend every moment we're on the road on a bike (I sold the car a few months ago).

A balance must be struck between living and surviving. If we remove ALL risk from life we stop living.

I agree with most of what you say but sometimes you take the surviving a little too far for my liking.

Like I said, there's a distinct difference between 'fun' and 'enjoyment'.

[Ixion]

Like I said, there's a distinct difference between 'fun' and 'enjoyment'.

'Twere a sad spirit that could strike that distinction .

[Katman]

'Twere a sad spirit that could strike that distinction .

Fun is what you have in a playground.

[Lilly2w]

Just want to say Thanks guys, this is why i joined this site, as a learner you often don't know what advice you should be asking for or weather you are on the right track, been thinking a lot latley about the realities of my new passion... (nothing to put me of so far tho!)

[Winston001]

Hmmmm......clearly you haven't heard of the BDOTGNZA then....:mad:


Just want to say - Thanks guys, this is why I joined this site, as a learner you often don't know what advice you should be asking for or whether you are on the right track, I've been thinking a lot lately about the realities of my new passion... (nothing to put me off so far though!)

Spelling and grammar corrected as above. HTH. :beer:

[howdamnhard]

Great advice Ixion,I employed all of the above to avoid 3 potential accidents today.Was one of those unusual days.
At intersections I always check behind me while stopped for fast approaching cages.I ensure I'm in gear and have an escape route to dive into and flash my brake lights .

[Boob Johnson]

Katman on road riding...


Like I said, there's a distinct difference between 'fun' and 'enjoyment'.



'Twere a sad spirit that could strike that distinction.
If you were ever unsure why you have been met with so much resistance Katman, then there it is. Humans will never be drones, you seem to take this to the extreme & people will react to you accordingly.


I think most will agree with whatever skills & experience you (and the other 10,000 experienced motorcyclists around) can pass down but you loose respect from some when you have unrealistic expectations like you do, it just comes across as being a bit loopy.

[Katman]

I knew you'd have trouble understanding it Boob.

That's why I took the time to explain it at post #55.

[MSTRS]

I knew you'd have trouble understanding it Boob.

That's why I took the time to explain it at post #55.

If that's 'explaining' then best you quit now, go back to school and start over from the beginning.

Fun...noun, verb, funned, fun⋅ning, adjective
–noun
1. something that provides mirth or amusement: A picnic would be fun.
2. enjoyment or playfulness: She's full of fun.
–verb (used without object), verb (used with object)
3. Informal. joke; kid.
–adjective
4. Informal. of or pertaining to fun, esp. to social fun: a fun thing to do; really a fun person.
5. Informal. whimsical: flamboyant: The fashions this year are definitely on the fun side.
—Idioms
6. for or in fun, as a joke; not seriously; playfully: His insults were only in fun.
7. like fun, Informal. certainly not; of doubtful truth: He told us that he finished the exam in an hour. Like fun he did!
8. make fun of, to make the object of ridicule; deride: The youngsters made fun of their teacher.

[Lilly2w]

Hmmmm......clearly you haven't heard of the BDOTGNZA then....:mad:



Spelling and grammar corrected as above. HTH. :beer:

And thank you, Mwah! Mwah! :baby:

[dipshit]

1. something that provides mirth or amusement: A picnic would be fun.
2. enjoyment or playfulness: She's full of fun.
3. Informal. joke; kid.
4. Informal. of or pertaining to fun, esp. to social fun: a fun thing to do; really a fun person.
5. Informal. whimsical: flamboyant: The fashions this year are definitely on the fun side.
6. for or in fun, as a joke; not seriously; playfully: His insults were only in fun.
7. like fun, Informal. certainly not; of doubtful truth: He told us that he finished the exam in an hour. Like fun he did!
8. make fun of, to make the object of ridicule; deride: The youngsters made fun of their teacher.


Oh, like this you mean....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czl5SsM0qEI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZOQMuTbvW4

A motorcycle is just a bit of fun. "Not serious". "A bit of amusement." "A joke"


As opposed to getting enjoyment from motorcycling even if you do take it a bit more seriously... like....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvsnGQchHn0

But not surprisingly this is completely off the radar for half of you morons. :bleh:

[swbarnett]

Oh, like this you mean....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czl5SsM0qEI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZOQMuTbvW4

A motorcycle is just a bit of fun. "Not serious". "A bit of amusement." "A joke"


As opposed to getting enjoyment from motorcycling even if you do take it a bit more seriously... like....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvsnGQchHn0

But not surprisingly this is completely off the radar for half of you morons. :bleh:
Those are, of course, the two extremes.

At either end of the spectrum the distinction between "fun" and "enjoyment" is clear. There is, however, some overlap in the middle where "fun" can also be sensible. You don't have to be a moron to have fun on a bike.

[slimjim]

well i must admit..when stoned and riding ...i look around everywhere.:whistle:..lol and scrub more side rudder by the time i arrive..:woohoo:

[The Stranger]

Another skill
be aware that its easy as a biker to be in the blind spot of 4(plus) wheelers...


I hope you were including cars in that definition. Why ride in another driver blind spot when there is no need? Pass through it quickly if you are overtaking or passing, but if you way is blocked, hang back.

Whilst I'm on blind spots, don't rely on your mirrors. Sure check em to ensure there is nothing obvious, but it is no substitute for a head check.

Speaking of head checks, as you approach one or more vehicles stopped/parked on the LHS of the road, is there a head in any of them? Is the engine running, are the brake lights on? Beware of the inevitable sudden U turn.

[The Stranger]

I always focus on my vanishing point and watch the car in front in my peripheral vision.
It's amazing how often I will be in a row of traffic and see a disturbance way ahead yet the cages in front me have to emergency brake for it, simply because they only look at the next car most of the time.

If my vanishing point is blocked by say a truck or large van I open up a huge following distance. As the road code says (or used to) space is you best insurance.

[The Stranger]

Be wary of passing a parked truck or bus etc. Many a motorcyclist has been caught out by the car that was exiting a driveway just in front of the truck nosing out just far enough to see what was coming. Roll off the throttle, cover the brake, give the truck the widest birth practical, and be observant.

[The Stranger]

Red lights. Treat them as a stop sign. i.e. check both all ways before you move off on the green, don't assume your right of way.

[The Stranger]

And going hand in hand with the above is the 'skill' of concentrating on what you're doing 100% of the time while you're riding (or driving for that matter).



Maintain your bike, set your bike up properly for you, and ensure you have comfortable gear. Control the variables you can control so your attention is free to focus on those things that are out of your control.

If you are glancing at the fuel gauge constantly calculating your distance and hoping you will make the next fuel station, are you fully focused on the traffic and road surface?

[The Stranger]

Always indicate your intentions. Indicate for those you do see, but especially for those you don't see.

[vifferman]

Ride like a bastidge. It's a well known fact that the extra adrenaline heightens your abilities. :Punk:
Woot.

[jrandom]

Whacking the throttle on and off quickly as you stand the bike up out of corners makes morse-code stripes on the road with the back tyre! W00t!

:D

Unless you ride a pussy bike, of course. You don't ride a pussy bike, do you? Sell it quickly, and buy something with twice as many horse powers.

[vifferman]

Whacking the throttle on and off quickly as you stand the bike up out of corners makes morse-code stripes on the road with the back tyre! W00t!
Excellent! You can leave helpful (or derogatory, as appropriate) messages on the road for other motorists to read. :niceone:

Unless you ride a pussy bike, of course. You don't ride a pussy bike, do you? Sell it quickly, and buy something with twice as many horse powers.
Yes, I *do* ride a pussy bike. Plus it's a gurrrrlie blue colour. I should sell it, huh? And buy a MAN's bike, with at least 150 MyPonies. :yes:

[dipshit]

At either end of the spectrum the distinction between "fun" and "enjoyment" is clear. There is, however, some overlap in the middle where "fun" can also be sensible.

Of course. Precisely the point. It is how much an individual places priority on having "fun" on their bike.

Is going for a ride all about going out for a bit of "fun" - or is arriving safely at your destination having enjoyed the ride and motorcycling as a whole a higher priority even if it means you had to sacrifice some "fun" along the way.?

[vifferman]

Is going for a ride all about going out for a bit of "fun" - or is arriving safely at your destination having enjoyed the ride and motorcycling as a whole a higher priority even if it means you had to sacrifice some "fun" along the way.?
Maybe...
Then again, perhaps not.


I'm not sure, Ack (Shirley). :Oops:



Ah... what was the question again? :confused:

[MSTRS]

Of course. Precisely the point. It is how much an individual places priority on having "fun" on their bike.

Is going for a ride all about going out for a bit of "fun" - or is arriving safely at your destination having enjoyed the ride and motorcycling as a whole a higher priority even if it means you had to sacrifice some "fun" along the way.?

And what it is that constitutes fun for that individual. Nowhere is it written that one can't have maximum fun on a bike in the appropriate situation, thereby being able to do it all again tomorrow and the next day etc.

[vifferman]

And what it is that constitutes fun for that individual. Nowhere is it written that one can't have maximum fun on a bike in the appropriate situation, thereby being able to do it all again tomorrow and the next day etc.
It's more funner if it's inappropriate. :clap:

[MSTRS]

It's more funner if it's inappropriate. :clap:

I resist the FunPolice and all they stand for, but I wouldn't go that far...

[Ixion]

Of course. Precisely the point. It is how much an individual places priority on having "fun" on their bike.

Is going for a ride all about going out for a bit of "fun" - or is arriving safely at your destination having enjoyed the ride and motorcycling as a whole a higher priority even if it means you had to sacrifice some "fun" along the way.?

Well, I've had fun riding at 30kph. And I've had fun riding at 130kph. And someone who looks exactly like me, but is really my evil cousin has ridden at 230kph .I can't quite recall my evil cousin's name, or where he lives, isn't it sad how y' memory goes when y' get old. But I do know that he had a lot of fun doing it. In the course of a million or so kilometres, I've managed to avoid ever hurting myself (or anyone else), cos I don't like getting hurt. But I reckon I had fun on most of those journeys.

I've deliberately gone out for a ride in the teeth of a full blown cyclone. I couldn't really say I enjoyed the ride, but it was rather fun.

I've not always arrived at my destination , indeed I seldom arrive at whatever my original nominal destination was, but I have always got to wherever I ended up safely, and usually had a lot of fun along the way

I don't subscribe to the theory that having fun must imply dangerous or reckless behaviour. That's the sort of weasellly nonsense the Greens spout, immediately before they call for some innocent pastime to be banned.

But then, I'm just a simple and innocent old man, so my pleasures are simple and innocent one :innocent:

[MSTRS]

I don't subscribe to the theory that having fun must imply dangerous or reckless behaviour. That's the sort of weasellly nonsense the Greens spout, immediately before they call for some innocent pastime to be banned.



Pre-fucking-cisely

[dipshit]

I don't subscribe to the theory that having fun must imply dangerous or reckless behaviour. That's the sort of weasellly nonsense the Greens spout, immediately before they call for some innocent pastime to be banned.

Actually many motorcycles subscribe to that theory...


"It's more funner if it's inappropriate"

e.g.. someone posts this vid in KB saying "ZXR9 riders....respect!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUlX4qavDTk

With comments from others here in KB...

"impressed"

"man that guy can handle that bike!"

"Thought it was funny when he overtook the motorcycle cop though. Good riding."

"Very skillful riding"

"Awesome riding."

"He must know that bike is gonna react so well."

"All I can say is BALLLLLLLLLLLLS"

"this guy got some mad skills!"

"Crazy but that chick sure can ride!!!"

"He does have balls alright!"


Yet nobody ever says "good skills!" to a vid like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvsnGQchHn0

There is something fundamentally fucked up with the attitude many approach motorcycling with.

[vifferman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvsnGQchHn0


Wow! That guy sure could ride well, and his bike was AWESOme!
Didja check out his mad skills in not slipping on that cowpat, and stopping in time for the tractor?
Respect! :yes:
Most of all, I really admired his sign-reading skills and comprehension: he could get a job as my proof-reader. :niceone:

[PrincessBandit]

Wow! That guy sure could ride well, and his bike was AWESOme!
.. he could get a job as my proof-reader. :niceone:

Definitely. Post #78 "more funner" don't you know it's "much more funnerer" . Get it right! (p.s. you might even get away with a "auw" on the end of it...)

[PrincessBandit]

Sadly dipshit, I suspect that there'd be a number of motorcyclists who still would miss all the BIG WARNINGS even if they were spelt out for them like in the vid clip.

[swbarnett]

Be wary of passing a parked truck or bus etc. Many a motorcyclist has been caught out by the car that was exiting a driveway just in front of the truck nosing out just far enough to see what was coming. Roll off the throttle, cover the brake, give the truck the widest birth practical, and be observant.
Or one turning right. There might just be an idiot turning right towards you in spite of the fact that they have no visibility of your lane (happened to my wife).

[swbarnett]

Of course. Precisely the point. It is how much an individual places priority on having "fun" on their bike.

Is going for a ride all about going out for a bit of "fun" - or is arriving safely at your destination having enjoyed the ride and motorcycling as a whole a higher priority even if it means you had to sacrifice some "fun" along the way.?
I do see what you're saying. However, I think we differ on the amount of "fun" we're willing to sacrifice for added safety. I have absolutely no problem with this, a boring world it would be if we all agreed all the time. The problem comes when someone willing to sacrifice more "fun" than I am tries to impose their views on me through law.

[jrandom]

Wow! That guy sure could ride well, and his bike was AWESOme!
Didja check out his mad skills in not slipping on that cowpat, and stopping in time for the tractor?

That video gives me the shits. Particularly the tractor bit.

I might just stick to riding on racetracks from now on...

[Owl]

Actually many motorcycles subscribe to that theory...

e.g.. someone posts this vid in KB saying "ZXR9 riders....respect!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUlX4qavDTk

With comments from others here in KB...

"impressed"

"man that guy can handle that bike!"

"Thought it was funny when he overtook the motorcycle cop though. Good riding."

"Very skillful riding"

"Awesome riding."

"He must know that bike is gonna react so well."

"All I can say is BALLLLLLLLLLLLS"

"this guy got some mad skills!"

"Crazy but that chick sure can ride!!!"

"He does have balls alright!"

Perhaps you're reading too much into this dipshit? One of those comments belongs to me, but it was merely a set-up for my second comment which was intended as a joke (fun for me and enjoyment for others with a sense of humour).

This is a forum and the written word is not always a true reflection of one’s attitude or personal view!

For the record, I watched that ZX9R video in disbelief. I neither think it was cool nor clever and wondered if the rider was actually alive today. I’ve no doubt he had skill handling a bike, but the mass between his ears had somehow fallen to his crotch. “All balls and no brains” so to speak!

I don’t have that sort of bike control, have no desire to ride like that, but I do hope I have enough mass between my ears to stay alive and safe!:msn-wink:

[dipshit]

That video gives me the shits. Particularly the tractor bit.

And that's the reality of riding on the roads. It isn't that great a problem for people who put a higher priority in their safety and take their riding a bit more seriously over having "fun".

Being the fastest. Pulling the biggest wheelie. Having the most tortured looking tyres. Having the biggest set of balls in the eyes of your mates in some bullshit macho pissing match, mean jack-shit for road-craft skills.

[swbarnett]

And that's the reality of riding on the roads. It isn't that great a problem for people who put a higher priority in their safety and take their riding a bit more seriously over having "fun".
I take my riding very seriously. It's part of what makes life worth living. If it wasn't a fun AND enjoyable thing to do I wouldn't do it. This is why I rarely drive a car.


Being the fastest. Pulling the biggest wheelie. Having the most tortured looking tyres. Having the biggest set of balls in the eyes of your mates in some bullshit macho pissing match, mean jack-shit for road-craft skills.
You don't have to do any of this to have fun on a bike. This kind of posturing is not about fun, it's about young males competing for females.

[Badjelly]

Several people on this site have told me I can't possibly have fun riding such a boring bike as my Scorpio. I just :).

[MSTRS]

Several people on this site have told me I can't possibly have fun riding such a boring bike as my Scorpio. I just :).

A Scorpio? Have you no standards? And to actually seem to be proud of that ignominious fact...Gads, how can you look at yourself in the mirror?
:innocent:

[Badjelly]

Several people on this site have told me I can't possibly have fun riding such a boring bike as my Scorpio. I just :).


A Scorpio? Have you no standards? And to actually seem to be proud of that ignominious fact...Gads, how can you look at yourself in the mirror?
:innocent:

:)

<meh Oh FFS how do you do that invisible 10-character thing again? />

[MSTRS]

:)

Oh FFS how do you do that invisible 10-character thing again?

Like this ... <jygubyjiyi>

[OutForADuck]

Always indicate your intentions. Indicate for those you do see, but especially for those you don't see.

But treat others indications as just that.. an indication of what they will do. The only thing it actually proves is that the bulb works :crazy:

[OutForADuck]

Try to enter corners from the widest safe line and look to exit on the narrowest safe line. So for a right hander enter from the road side and exist near the centre line.

Doing this will mean that your exit from one corner will run you into the correct entry for the next except in the case of a corner of the same direction, in which case all you need to do is let the bike drift wide.

We all know that letting a bike drift wide on corners is ALOT easier than trying to tighten the line, just ask everyone that has ever ended up on the wrong side of the road on exit.

90% of the time each corner will flow into the next.

[MSTRS]

That is correct info OutForADuck
What you are referring to, is the late apex style of cornering. It gives you increased vision through the corner to be fore-warned of otherwise unseen hazards. Like SUVs taking a lane and a half.
If a rider approaches a corner from the 'wrong' part of his lane, he will be almost forced to apex early. This can result in being sling-shotted wide at the natural apex. Not good.

[XP@]

1. Know how to stop.
2. Plan ahead.
3. Relax.

If your body doesn't know how to stop your bike (they are all different) then practice. Knowing the theory is not enough you need to drill it in until it is instinct.

Plan ahead, plan lines through corners and not just the corner you are approaching on a twisty road you may need to consider 2+ bends in advance. Build in flexibility to your line, allow for surprises - they will happen. You should be looking 12 seconds down the road, further if possible.

Chill, if you are tense you won't be able to perform well, it becomes an effort to get the bike round a corner. Relax the death grip on the bars, keep your head moving, lean in to the corners. By keeping your self calm more attention can be paid to riding.

[OutForADuck]

That is correct info OutForADuck
What you are referring to, is the late apex style of cornering. It gives you increased vision through the corner to be fore-warned of otherwise unseen hazards. Like SUVs taking a lane and a half.
If a rider approaches a corner from the 'wrong' part of his lane, he will be almost forced to apex early. This can result in being sling-shotted wide at the natural apex. Not good.

Exactly.. although I try to get newer riders to forget about the apex as it is just a natural consequence of getting the exit and turn point correct rather than the other way around. All hooked together with that vanishing point rapidly moving away from you indicating the corner is about to end.

[OutForADuck]

Relax the death grip on the bars, keep your head moving, lean in to the corners. By keeping your self calm more attention can be paid to riding.


Now thats a state we all need to work toward the "zone" where we are working naturally rather than trying to force out the good stuff... if you can relax into your riding you 80% there.

One of the fastest riders/races I have ever known would visibly switch from riding stiff to complete relaxation as soon as he turned up the wick and would suddenly brake less and seem to move slower... but when he did that.. you knew it was going to be impossible to keep up :bye:

[MSTRS]

One of the fastest riders/races I have ever known would visibly switch from riding stiff to complete relaxation as soon as he turned up the wick and would suddenly brake less and seem to move slower... but when he did that.. you knew it was going to be impossible to keep up :bye:

Now that is pace riding. And it doesn't have to be overly 'fast'...just smooth and consistent.

[OutForADuck]

This same guy was also a fantastic example of how 90% of it is up to us and not the bike, most limits, be it with smooth attentive riding or speed round a circuit are the property of our skills and mindset.

He was the same (admittedly impressive speed) on his Bears cup Buell or his superbike prepped Gixxer 1000...... he just reached his own personal limits and one bike he dragged up to them and the other waited for the day he would reach its.

Go out and practice being perfect guys... the faster better smarter bike costs more and returns less than investment in your own skills.

[Pascal]

Alright, I've read through this and there is one thing missing. Well, the thing I was looking for ... it isn't here.

Wet roads, windy days and cagers on their way to work.

I was riding in this morning, still a newbie and with my L plate clearly affixed to my pannier bag. And a cager was tailgating me down Gillies avenue with the wind and the weather as it was. I was doing about 50km/h, so within the speed limit and hunkered down against the wind.

Did he think?

He was about a yard or two off my back bumper and clearly impatient. Coming up to the lights he essentially pushed me off the road and raced off, by the speed he was going I'm guessing around 70km/h.

What would have happened if I'd slipped on the wet roads? He'd have gone right over me. If I'd have to stop suddenly? He'd have flattened me.

What do you do in that type of situation? My first instinct was to pull over, but with the wind and the weather the way it was (is) today that didn't feel entirely safe - not with the way people turn a single lane into a two-lane going down Gillies.

And I forgot the fuckers plates, because I was >< this close to filing a report for dangerous driving on him.

[Katman]

What do you do in that type of situation? My first instinct was to pull over, but with the wind and the weather the way it was (is) today that didn't feel entirely safe - not with the way people turn a single lane into a two-lane going down Gillies.



Quite frankly, that's exactly what you should have done. Your argument that it didn't feel safe to doesn't make any sense. (What if your destination had dictated that that was where you were to pull over).

Riding in those conditions while preoccupied by someone tail gating you was a far riskier situation. As one of the more vulnerable forms of transport, motorcyclists need to take whatever steps necessary to minimise that risk.

[The Stranger]

I was riding in this morning, still a newbie and with my L plate clearly affixed to my pannier bag. And a cager was tailgating me down Gillies avenue


Yes, unfortunately an L plate seem to attract this kind of attention. Personally I'd get rid of it, however avoiding dickheads is no excuse when it comes to the law.

[Pascal]

Quite frankly, that's exactly what you should have done. Your argument that it didn't feel safe to doesn't make any sense. (What if your destination had dictated that that was where you were to pull over).

Probably, but looking at the road and the way one, slightly wider than average road gets turned into two lanes by cars it felt too dangerous to me. There's not even a motorcycle sized gap inbetween them. In retrospect, I should probably have pulled into a driveway or into a side street. Next time. Live and learn.

[slimjim]

Probably, but looking at the road and the way one, slightly wider than average road gets turned into two lanes by cars it felt too dangerous to me. There's not even a motorcycle sized gap inbetween them. In retrospect, I should probably have pulled into a driveway or into a side street. Next time. Live and learn.

:first:...live and learn
spot on..

[Ixion]

First rule of motorcycling: if you don't feel safe, slow down or stop. In this case, nip onto the footpath , pause for a few minutes to calm down and then continue.

For tailgaters, try weaving around a little. It unnerves them. Otherwise, if for some reason I can't I just pull over, I ride slower and slower, opening up more of a gap in front until the impatient twunt decides to overtake 9usually dangerously, but that's his funeral)

[Katman]

Otherwise, if for some reason I can't I just pull over, I ride slower and slower, opening up more of a gap in front until the impatient twunt decides to overtake 9usually dangerously, but that's his funeral)

As long as it's only his.

However, the possibility that it could be the motorcyclists instead would suggest that pulling over and letting them safely pass is the only sensible option.

[Ixion]

You missed "if for some reason I can't I just pull over". Sometimes it's just not possible.

[Katman]

Sometimes it's just not possible.

I'm trying to imagine when that could be.

:scratch:

[Ixion]

Try the Auckland Harbour Bridge (or probably, any bridge). Or tunnels. I can think of a few roads where it would be pretty dicey too.

[vifferman]

I'm trying to imagine when that could be.

:scratch:
Maybe when the sides of the road are lined with parked cars?
In any case, this guy was tailgating you so closely as if to say, "Get the fook outta my way!", more'n likely because of the yellow plate. He was obviously determined to get past, so the trick would've been to let him go past, but if possible at a time/place of your choosing - i.e., pull over somewhere safe(ish) if possible.

[Katman]

Try the Auckland Harbour Bridge (or probably, any bridge). Or tunnels.

I'll give you those.

:msn-wink:

[Pascal]

I'll give you those.

Well, consider Gillies Avenue in the morning. It's a single lane road, but people treat it as a double lane. The road is just wide enough for two cars.

I'm in the right hand "lane", wanting to continue on past the motorway off-ramp. The left hand "lane" is a queue of virtually parked cars, all jostling to get to the off-ramp with people squeezing in and out from the side.

What options are there? Begin indicating to move into the motorway "lane", slow down and hope for a gap and then join that temporarily. That felt too dangerous to me with somebody that was already impatient and hogging my rear bumper.

Pulling over would have been ideal, but it was not a feasible option for me at that time.

[Katman]

Coming up to the lights he essentially pushed me off the road and raced off,


Rather than allowing yourself to be "pushed off the road" it would have been better to have made a clear and deliberate indication that you intended to move out of his way. That way you are controlling the situation.

[vifferman]

Rather than allowing yourself to be "pushed off the road" it would have been better to have made a clear and deliberate indication that you intended to move out of his way. That way you are controlling the situation.
I think that's basically what I said...
Sorry - I forgot this was your thread. :pinch:

[Katman]

Sorry - I forgot this was your thread. :pinch:

Hey, this sandpit's big enough for both of us.

:msn-wink:

[westie]

A big impressive wheelie would have sorted out your tail gater pascal.
Next time

[NinjaNanna]

When being tailgated try touching your rear brake. Most of the time the switch is adjusted to turn your break light on well before any braking is actually done.

It can be a good way of getting tailgaters off your arse, if they think you are braking.

[OutForADuck]

When being tailgated try touching your rear brake. Most of the time the switch is adjusted to turn your break light on well before any braking is actually done.

It can be a good way of getting tailgaters off your arse, if they think you are braking.

This one works by creating a panic situation in the driver behind you, forcing them to realise they are in a dangerous situation. Problem is you are causing a dangerous situation by doing it and the likely reaction is for him to break hard, unneccessarily.

Truth be; this all adds up to psychological manipulation, he is following too close and this intimidates you, but is not in itself dangerous given very predictable actions on both your parts. Try to NOT be intimidated and wait for your opportunity to "encourage" him to pass at your safe choice. Until then drive predictably and if he encrouches to a very dangerous level, come to a slow and predictable stop in front of him. If you can not get out of his way he will also not be able to get out of yours, you have the power.

Do not allow yourself to be intimidated into doing something dangerous, ride with authority, stay calm and controlled and let him have the mental break down :crazy:

[The Stranger]

When being tailgated try touching your rear brake. Most of the time the switch is adjusted to turn your break light on well before any braking is actually done.

It can be a good way of getting tailgaters off your arse, if they think you are braking.

Hey, your sig pic. Is that a photo of Captain Cook from Gisbourne?

[swbarnett]

he is following too close and this intimidates you, but is not in itself dangerous ...

Sorry???

What about the emergency stop that's required when some other dick pulls out in front of you? (or the cat, kid, low flying brick etc. etc.)

[PrincessBandit]

Where possible when I'm in that situation I make a deliberate turning gesture of my head so they can see I'm aware that they're there. A car driver is largely self absorbed with their own sphere and probably thinks that a rider is too. By making the obvious "I can see you" head turn that may bive them pause to check why you're doing it. Usually works for me, and it's more helpful for me if I know I've not knowingly done anything to piss them off in the first place. But that's just me, butter wouldn't melt in my mouth (except when I'm cussing).

[westie]

Had classic tail gater today. Trying to under take me etc. Bout one meter from the rear tyre.
So slow down and let them get all upset with "wats this guy doing" then off with a quick wheelie down the road. Hey presto no more tailgater.

Tried some other things I know like turn the head and look at them, tap the rear brake light several times. but nothing detered them.

[OutForADuck]

Sorry???

What about the emergency stop that's required when some other dick pulls out in front of you? (or the cat, kid, low flying brick etc. etc.)

I guess my point is it is not desirable, hence get him past you as soon as you can, but jabbing brakes or such behaviour is ramping up an uncomfortable position into a dangerous one.

I was in no way saying "just put up with it". it is dangerous but not immediately life threatening, even though it feels that way.

[swbarnett]

I guess my point is it is not desirable, ...
Thanks for the clarification. I understand where you're coming from now.

[GrayWolf]

The one I had absolutely HAMMERED in was the 'life saver'.
Right rear observation; when overtaking, manouvering or turning right. Mirrors lie for distance and have blindspots, they should not be relied on for changes in lane, turning or overtaking.

The other little gem, was to be aware of what you are following, and the view obstruction of YOU! it can cause. EG: If your behind a Large Cargo style van, or Lorry a 2 second gap is probably not enough for other road users entering your road from the left (T junctions) to really notice you, ESPECIALY if you are near the centre line to 'see round' that vechile.

Had I known that lil bit of roadcraft at 19yrs? the only bone break I have recieved on a bike would probably not have occurred.

[swbarnett]

The other little gem, was to be aware of what you are following, and the view obstruction of YOU! it can cause. EG: If your behind a Large Cargo style van, or Lorry a 2 second gap is probably not enough for other road users entering your road from the left (T junctions) to really notice you, ESPECIALY if you are near the centre line to 'see round' that vechile.
A little trick that I add to this situation is to always be aware of roads joining yours from the left and move in to the left wheel track as you approach. This allows you a better view of any approaching traffic and gives them the best chance of seeing you. As you pass the side road move back to the right wheel track to allow the greatest amount of time to react if they insist on trying to ram you.

[BMWST?]

i havent read this whole thread,so apologies if this has already been discussed..and perhaps pertinent in relation o the Akaroa incident..when riding on the open road on a straight,by yourself,where do you position your self on the road....left or right hand wheel track...?Am thinking the LH track is best but would prolly normally ride in the rh one(albeit to the left of the rh side)

[OutForADuck]

The one I had absolutely HAMMERED in was the 'life saver'.
Right rear observation; when overtaking, manouvering or turning right. Mirrors lie for distance and have blindspots, they should not be relied on for changes in lane, turning or overtaking.



What we used to teach was the "road map". Using your mirrors, shoulder look etc you build a mental image of what cars are around you and were they are going to be soon. Then using your "flick check" (a 10sec quick check in mirrors and side to side) if that picture does not line up with what you get then do a full "remap" including the shoulder look, etc.

If your mental picture of how the traffic should look is wrong, get a solid one fast!!!

[Gassit Girl]

I enjoyed reading this thread and learned heaps. Appreciated the advice about being ready for vehicles nosing/pulling out of driveways just ahead of parked trucks etc.

I think fixation is the biggest thing for me to be aware of. Some on this thread have suggested making eye contact with drivers whose intentions you aren't sure of, but I agree that they can look you in the eye and promptly pull out in front of you. I try to check for movement of the front wheel.

Once, on a gentle right hander near Te Kuiti, a wheel rolled into my lane, having come loose from an oncoming vehicle. It was maybe a spare, or one of multi wheels, or off a trailer, cos I don't think the driver even knew it was gone! Anyway, I felt like a pin at the end of a bowling alley as the wheel came bouncing/rolling my way at open road speed. I buttoned off and swerved to the right and the wheel continued into the grass verge. I had enough time to make a judgement and react, but hate to think about a wheel hurtling my way on a TIGHT corner!

Another thing I dwelled on later was that I found myself looking directly at the wheel, even though I have always believed that you should focus on the clear space you are going to escape into. Thought a lot about what I should have done, but concluded that the wheel's course was predictable and to judge its speed and direction I HAD to look at it. But I will still train myself not to fixate in cases of ''unpredictable'' obstacles like animals and cars.

The big lesson for me was how quickly the safe 'mind map' you have of what's around you can change, and that each situation demands something different of you.

Ride safe over the hols everyone!

[The Stranger]

Another thing I dwelled on later was that I found myself looking directly at the wheel, even though I have always believed that you should focus on the clear space you are going to escape into.


Yeah, you can plan it out in your head all you like, but I think unfortunately it requires experience to put it into action when push comes to shove.
We do have an exercise that goes some way toward overloading the mind like that at RRRS, though we are of necessity limited in what we can do with such an exercise.

[BMWST?]

I enjoyed reading this thread and learned heaps. Appreciated the advice about being ready for vehicles nosing/pulling out of driveways just ahead of parked trucks etc.

I think fixation is the biggest thing for me to be aware of. Some on this thread have suggested making eye contact with drivers whose intentions you aren't sure of, but I agree that they can look you in the eye and promptly pull out in front of you. I try to check for movement of the front wheel.

Once, on a gentle right hander near Te Kuiti, a wheel rolled into my lane, having come loose from an oncoming vehicle. It was maybe a spare, or one of multi wheels, or off a trailer, cos I don't think the driver even knew it was gone! Anyway, I felt like a pin at the end of a bowling alley as the wheel came bouncing/rolling my way at open road speed. I buttoned off and swerved to the right and the wheel continued into the grass verge. I had enough time to make a judgement and react, but hate to think about a wheel hurtling my way on a TIGHT corner!

Another thing I dwelled on later was that I found myself looking directly at the wheel, even though I have always believed that you should focus on the clear space you are going to escape into. Thought a lot about what I should have done, but concluded that the wheel's course was predictable and to judge its speed and direction I HAD to look at it. But I will still train myself not to fixate in cases of ''unpredictable'' obstacles like animals and cars.

The big lesson for me was how quickly the safe 'mind map' you have of what's around you can change, and that each situation demands something different of you.

Ride safe over the hols everyone!

you tend to go where you look ...so dont stare at something you are trying to avoid cos you will most likely go straight into it!

[vifferman]

Another thing I dwelled on later was that I found myself looking directly at the wheel, even though I have always believed that you should focus on the clear space you are going to escape into. Thought a lot about what I should have done, but concluded that the wheel's course was predictable and to judge its speed and direction I HAD to look at it. But I will still train myself not to fixate in cases of ''unpredictable'' obstacles like animals and cars.
By the sounds of it, in a sense, you weren't fixating on it (giving it your full attention), but looking at it and being aware of it, which is what you needed to do. Oftentimes, while the 'rule' "you go where you are looking" is true, you can still either look at something while eyeing up and plotting a route in a different direction, or look where you want to go while keeping the obstacle/danger in view. I think that once you are aware of the tendency to go where you look, you aren't bound by it to quite the same extent as a noobie might be. You can still focus on something without being stuck in that "frozen in the headlights victim" paralysis.

[Supermac Jr]

Read the thread last night and it really helped today (Im still on leave - the whole day on the bike:first:). somebody mentioned the cager u-turn... I saw a car 6 ahead pull off the road and just thought 'thats not a parking spot'... anyway you guessed it and I had miles to spare - even waved to the bloke. As i passed the cager it just thought of the one comment (not sure whose :blank:) that all an indicator means is that the bulb is working and had to smile. So thanks for the posts here!!!

[Katman]

You can still focus on something without being stuck in that "frozen in the headlights victim" paralysis.

Exactly.

You only 'fixate' on a target if you allow yourself to.

[OutForADuck]

Exactly.

You only 'fixate' on a target if you allow yourself to.

Or give yourself no other options.. beware the mobile wall fixation... i.e. following trucks, buses or anything else that takes up all your vision.. you WILL become fixated on it if you don't get past!!!

Not to mention you rob yourself of the safety of vision

[GrayWolf]

I don't subscribe to the theory that having fun must imply dangerous or reckless behaviour. That's the sort of weasellly nonsense the Greens spout, immediately before they call for some innocent pastime to be banned.

But then, I'm just a simple and innocent old man, so my pleasures are simple and innocent one :innocent:


Hehe, trouble is Ixion, we just cant quite remember WHAT that innocent pleasure is........

[Winston001]

The one I had absolutely HAMMERED in was the 'life saver'.

Right rear observation; when overtaking, manouvering or turning right. Mirrors lie for distance and have blindspots, they should not be relied on for changes in lane, turning or overtaking.


Interesting. I can't look over my shoulder while riding wearing a leather jacket and full-face helmet. The best I can manage is a glimpse slightly behind, so use my mirrors almost exclusively. And they don't cover the whole territory so I'm careful in lanes of traffic.

[varminter]

Yep, I agree, I can't look far behind unless I swivel round on the seat and I ain't gonna do that. Some of these blokes must be owls.:msn-wink:

[The Stranger]

Interesting. I can't look over my shoulder while riding wearing a leather jacket and full-face helmet. The best I can manage is a glimpse slightly behind, so use my mirrors almost exclusively.

Honestly, you will get caught out with that approach, it's just a case of when.
Nothing beats a head check.
Changing lanes for example I use mirror, if clear indicate, then head check before I actually move.

If you are extreemly vigilant in your mirrors and monitoring every vehicle behind you (and none sneak up) then you are spending too much time in your mirrors. About 90% of hazards originate between 9 and 3. That's where 90% of your focus should be.

[Winston001]

If you are extreemly vigilant in your mirrors and monitoring every vehicle behind you (and none sneak up) then you are spending too much time in your mirrors. About 90% of hazards originate between 9 and 3.

Yeah? That's it for me then - no riding in the middle of the day. :D

[OutForADuck]

If you are extreemly vigilant in your mirrors and monitoring every vehicle behind you (and none sneak up) then you are spending too much time in your mirrors. About 90% of hazards originate between 9 and 3. That's where 90% of your focus should be.

I"ll second that!! We tend to get into discussions about traffic awareness but forget that very important point... front quarter is where its most likely going to hit you.

[GrayWolf]

Interesting. I can't look over my shoulder while riding wearing a leather jacket and full-face helmet. The best I can manage is a glimpse slightly behind, so use my mirrors almost exclusively. And they don't cover the whole territory so I'm careful in lanes of traffic.

It's not an Exorcist head turn.
This is the method used by the UK Police. (roadcraft manual) Very few bikes have a wide and clear field of vision in the mirrors. My own bike a perfect example, great elbow view, and the 'wide angle' view behind.
It's a glance round to ensure there is no other bike or car appeared in the 'blind spot' Thats why they call it the 'life saver'. I am sure you can think of a time when a bike/car has come up behind at a rate of knots greater than you assesed in the mirror. Relying on the morror would place you in possible peril in that instance, if said 'person' decided to overtake you at that point. maybe didnt notice your indicator? The head turn may also alert the said 'person' you are doing something, (strange)?. You will also have a little time to react and not turn right, or left in London with cycle couriers .

[Winston001]

It's not an Exorcist head turn.

LOL :D




It's a glance round to ensure there is no other bike or car appeared in the 'blind spot' Thats why they call it the 'life saver'. I am sure you can think of a time when a bike/car has come up behind at a rate of knots greater than you assesed in the mirror....


Understood - I'll start another thread just to see what other say.

[The Stranger]

I'll start another thread just to see what other say.


Be a man and make a decision for yourself. You will feel empowered and in charge.
If it all turns to shit, don't worry KB will still be here for you.