Bio Fuel - what do I do?

[Rev DJ]

I understand that from 1 Oct 2008 the oil companies have to introduce a bio fuel component into their petrol and diesel ranges. The previous Bio Fuel threads have covered a lot of this in the past (allbeit a few months ago now).

I DO NOT WANT TO USE BIO FUEL IN MY BIKE. How can I avoid it? Will the fuel companies make it very clear which fuels have been watered down with ethanol?

(BTW - using bio fuels in your bike may void your warranty and it has been proven to INCREASE your fuel consulmption by about 3% - figures from BMW and Toyota)

Cheers DJ

[slofox]

(BTW - using bio fuels in your bike may void your warranty and it has been proven to INCREASE your fuel consulmption by about 3% - figures from BMW and Toyota) Cheers DJ

Ethanol has lower energy value than regular gasoline ("Ethanol contains 97% of the energy that pure gasoline has") so does increase fuel consumption.....but not by much - I can still get 60mpg+ out of the SVS using Force 10.
Check out this link......http://autorepair.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/aa102100a_2.htm

[Badjelly]

...using bio fuels in your bike may void your warranty...

Once ethanol in fuel becomes widespread, I think any seller who tries to wriggle out of warranty obligations by claiming it's the buyer's fault for using this fuel will be on very shaky ground.

Seriously, ethanol has been blended with petrol in various places around the world on and off for several decades. Any manufacturer who is still building vehicles that won't cope with it needs a good kicking.

[R6_kid]

My bike runs fine on the force 10 stuff at Gull, and the flames out the exhaust have a nicer colour to them (apparently).

[slofox]

My bike runs fine on the force 10 stuff at Gull, and the flames out the exhaust have a nicer colour to them (apparently).

It smells better too..........

[Roki_nz]

It smells better too..........

Like fish and chips ?

[slofox]

Like fish and chips ?

mmmmm - more like vodka I think......

[TimeOut]

Like fish and chips ?

Na that's the bio-diesel.

Surely they'll have to supply ordinary fuel for those vehicles that can't run on ethanol. There are quite a few that can't!

[Gubb]

Only 3% of total sales must be bio-fuels.

The chains are only putting in a few stores with ethanol in each region to make compliance, the vast majority will still have regular dinosaur juice.

[Flip]

Right up to recently a lot of the fuel in NZ had methanol from Methanex in it. Many countries around the world have been using biofuels for ages.

[no-coast-punk]

Here in the States it's been a legal mandate that all fuels contain 10% ethanol during certain months out of the year since the early 90's.

Over on that side of the pond they are phasing out Benzene in favor of Ethanol. Which is good, because Benzene is about the most toxic/cancerous shit known to man. For that reason alone it's worthwhile.

I have literally done HUNDREDS of engines to run on ethanol concentrations between 85-100%.

Personally I LOVE ethanol. All geopoliticalclimatechangesciency stuff aside.

Ethanol is an AMAZING solvent at keeping carbon off the inside of engines. High ethanol content (85% or more) engines I've done look brank new and shiney internally after 50,000+ miles. The octane rating of the stuff is VERY high. It burns cooler. Burns cleaner.

The only drawback is that yes, your mileage WILL suffer. How much is dependant on hundreds of variables. In some situations (high compression engines with a good engine control scheme for learning spark advance) mileage doesn't suffer at all.

At the end of the day 10% concentrations don't mean much. Any benefits from additional octane are negated by them using a lower grade distilate in the base fuel to hit the same octane number.

This octane number is deceiving though. You guys rate your fuel there on the RON system. RON is a stupid way to measure fuel octane and has no bearing on the modern engine. However fuel distributors like RON because it's easy to blend a fuel to hit a high RON and RON are always higher than MON. MON is really what matters. Ethanol has an EXTREMELY high MON but the RON isn't off the charts. Still with me? At the end of the day you may wind up with a fuel that has the same RON as regular premium gas... but the MON may be a few points higher. And that's what counts.

Low ethanol fuels are a good thing. Guys that have been dyno tuned to the ragged edge may see a slight hit (the bikes will run ~2-3% leaner). Stock mapped bikes will love the stuff because factory mapping is always pig rich. Really new bikes that have lambda sensors will see 0 difference with the exception of some of the cleaning properties. Plugs will last longer. You can also go a spot longer between oil changes.

You guys SHOULD be pushing for the availability of E-85. 85% ethanol. That stuff is gods gift to high performance engines. On turbo stuff the performance is similar to VP C16 leaded race fuel (116 octane, ~$13USD/gallon). Turbo engines typically see 20-30% more power without changing anything other than fuel/timing calibrations. On naturally aspirated applications performance is similar to VP MR9 race fuel ($15USD/gallon). I typically see 10-15% more torque on the NA bike engines I've done. Only E-85 is widely available here in Colorado at normal pumps. It's also about 30% cheaper than premium fuel.

[Blackshear]

Here in the States it's been a legal mandate that all fuels contain 10% ethanol during certain months out of the year since the early 90's.

Over on that side of the pond they are phasing out Benzene in favor of Ethanol. Which is good, because Benzene is about the most toxic/cancerous shit known to man. For that reason alone it's worthwhile.

I have literally done HUNDREDS of engines to run on ethanol concentrations between 85-100%.

Personally I LOVE ethanol. All geopoliticalclimatechangesciency stuff aside.

Ethanol is an AMAZING solvent at keeping carbon off the inside of engines. High ethanol content (85% or more) engines I've done look brank new and shiney internally after 50,000+ miles. The octane rating of the stuff is VERY high. It burns cooler. Burns cleaner.

The only drawback is that yes, your mileage WILL suffer. How much is dependant on hundreds of variables. In some situations (high compression engines with a good engine control scheme for learning spark advance) mileage doesn't suffer at all.

At the end of the day 10% concentrations don't mean much. Any benefits from additional octane are negated by them using a lower grade distilate in the base fuel to hit the same octane number.

This octane number is deceiving though. You guys rate your fuel there on the RON system. RON is a stupid way to measure fuel octane and has no bearing on the modern engine. However fuel distributors like RON because it's easy to blend a fuel to hit a high RON and RON are always higher than MON. MON is really what matters. Ethanol has an EXTREMELY high MON but the RON isn't off the charts. Still with me? At the end of the day you may wind up with a fuel that has the same RON as regular premium gas... but the MON may be a few points higher. And that's what counts.

Low ethanol fuels are a good thing. Guys that have been dyno tuned to the ragged edge may see a slight hit (the bikes will run ~2-3% leaner). Stock mapped bikes will love the stuff because factory mapping is always pig rich. Really new bikes that have lambda sensors will see 0 difference with the exception of some of the cleaning properties. Plugs will last longer. You can also go a spot longer between oil changes.

You guys SHOULD be pushing for the availability of E-85. 85% ethanol. That stuff is gods gift to high performance engines. On turbo stuff the performance is similar to VP C16 leaded race fuel (116 octane, ~$13USD/gallon). Turbo engines typically see 20-30% more power without changing anything other than fuel/timing calibrations. On naturally aspirated applications performance is similar to VP MR9 race fuel ($15USD/gallon). I typically see 10-15% more torque on the NA bike engines I've done. Only E-85 is widely available here in Colorado at normal pumps. It's also about 30% cheaper than premium fuel.

But... But... My Bandit :baby: