Ardmore needs help - This affects all bikers' rights!

[Reckless]

Firstly they monitor this forum so keep the slagging off out of this thread

Looks like poor old John is tapped out from the last newsletter! Patience and money! I haven't been involved much but probably a few self interested people, organising the many who move into an area and make it how they want it to be rather than how it has been for many years, ignoring the impact on the wider community!
I don't know what we can do to help but this is the tail wagging the dog! Again another travesty of justice created by the resource management act which seems to give all the power and funding to the few who want to make it their life's ambition to create their world how they want it even though these facilities have been there for ages and probably long before they even moved in!!!

Bear in mind the council inspectors have been to these peoples homes while a meeting is being held and due process has been done! They simply have a bee in their bonnet and will keep using the system against us until they get their way! Either by consistent relentless pressure or by exhausting the funding and commitment one man is prepared to invest!! John has never ripped us off if your a member, Ardmore on Wednesday is only $10 bucks to ride.


Last newsletter here, published with John's permission.


THIS SUNDAY AT ARDMORE

We are going all out for our last ride at Ardmore with another new track design we will be building on Saturday and what looks like is going to be perfect fine weather for Sunday.

Over 185 riders made submissions on our resource consent and most of you by now will have received notices of the appeal being made against our Resource Consent by the Concerned Residents Group CRG and the owner of the landfill next door.

Straight after the appeal was lodged I was expecting the Council to close us down until the hearings but surprisingly the Councils lawyers sent a memorandum to the Environment Court stating that they believed we should be able to continue to operate through to the hearings under the stay of the abatement notice issued last year.

The CRG have now gone direct to the Environment Court and asked for the track to be closed. I have to get a memorandum to the Court done today and appear at a Judicial Conference on Monday. Mike Cameron has been over the documents submitted so far and said it isn't too hopeful that we will be able to keep the track open if we go to court without legal representation.

The CRG will be applying to the government for legal funding to fight us in the Environment Court and I am hoping we will be able to do the same. Its an important fight for us to win because the Resource consent we were granted limits 4 strokes to 94 decibels and two strokes to 96 decibels which 90 percent of the bikes currently being ridden would not comply with. We should be able to keep running the track as a mini trail park for PW50s, PW80s, XR70s and other bikes that do comply, but the implications go further than just Ardmore.

If the CRG are successful in the Environment Court the decision will become case law and the 94 decibel limit is then liable to be applied to other off road motorcycle riding throughout the country. Ken Fell for example does not have an existing resource consent for bikes to be ridden on his farm so his local Council would more than likely apply the latest Environment Court ruling from our case and also restrict all motorcycle activity on his property to 94 decibels for 4 strokes and 96 for 2 strokes.

Anybody who doesn't already have a full consent will be in danger of having the ruling applied to them. Unfortunately the Environment Court decisions once made are seldom overturned. The decisions become case law and are usually reinforced with more rules.
We have a good chance of winning this, bikes and cars can be 98 decibels on the road and are not tested, but we have a ruling requiring bikes at our track to make less noise than they could on a public road even in the middle of the night. Our biggest problem is that we have been sucked dry by two years of fighting the Council and a group of residents who have had access to Council resources including their lawyers. The CRG have brought their own lawyers to court at a point where we have blown everything we have on acoustic reports and planning consent work and have generated as much debt as we can possibly handle. So now we are up the Environment Court Creek without a paddle fighting an experienced group who have had years of fun in court at the ratepayers and taxpayers expense fighting the Warbirds, Ardmore Airfield, the Kennel Club and now us.

See you Sunday

Lets make it a good one

Ideas please!! Donation drive, protest ride, media attention. I dunno, I just no John has fought tooth and nail for us and this is very very wrong!

PS we don't need a hundred posts on how to make bikes more quiet it won't even get that far if they close the place down!

[Pierce]

I'd be happy to do what i need to do whether it be donations or protests etc...
Ardmore is one of the better tracks to ride on that we have access to. To lose it would be horrible. Has anyone spoken to John about ideas? I suppose he's reaching his limit as to what he can do.

[telliman]

like he said the other week,until it all comes under the manukau council its a winless battle, untill then it can only be used as a peewee track due to decibel levels

[Reckless]

ok then two points as I see it.

1/- Its getting to much for him. From what I read there, no money to fight "we have blown everything we have on acoustic reports and planning consent work and have generated as much debt as we can possibly handle. So now we are up the Environment Court Creek without a paddle' and even a guy as committed as him must say sooner or later "I've had a guts full of this I'm gonna go get my life back!

2/- This could effect all rides everywhere from what I read. All clubs, all rides anyone who wants to kick up a stink uses this as the new line in the sand. wasn't there a ride up woodhill way where one lady called OSH, the council, dangerous fuel people etc etc. This isn't about a few DB in noise this is about them using the resource management act to get the place closed and its as wrong as when the residents who moved in knowing it was there when they did tried to get Western Springs closed down!

I can't think of anything else to do but organise 1000 bikers to close every road out there until "Close up" turns up and the politicians start noticing.
I don't know I haven't been involved, My bad I know, but maybe its time we all get off our butts and make an effort!

[CHOPPA]

Is there racing there tomorrow?

[Reckless]

By the look of the of above letter yes there is! But I haven't ever raced (anywhere)

Call the raceline on 268-0886 thats best.

[cr125nz]

spoke to james today heres the plan we can all go to ride at thunder and james will knock the price down to 15 each the other 5 goes to the ardmore fund so lets all rock out to thunder and show our support and james will have the mx track sorted for those who want to ride on it
so if we can get 100 ppl out there sat and sun its money to help ardmore

[Reckless]

Good idea but I think they are spent, they simply need thousands. Beaten by a few residents and a resource management act that is terribly skewed in favour of the complainant.

I've also heard (rumour) even though they won the resource consent the way its worded if a resident has a complaint about noise or dust at anytime on any meeting day! John has to get a certified engineer in to justify they aren't breaking the conditions. Why the onus is on him to prove he is not, rather than them to prove he is, is beyond me. Another bungle or deliberate action, you choose. This would cost a grand a time and the residents can complain every practice and event so its simply not worth carrying on.

I don't know if this is simple bungling by whoever wrote the resource conditions (Papakura Distrct Council I would think) or it has been deliberately written this way so they get granted resource but can't function under the conditions. Either way its a shafting for all of us! I'm also told that if this becomes case law it will have an effect on all clubs throughout NZ who haven't got full resource or need a renewal.

[Rupe]

I've also heard (rumour) even though they won the resource consent the way its worded if a resident has a complaint about noise or dust at anytime on any meeting day! John has to get a certified engineer in to justify they aren't breaking the conditions. Why the onus is on him to prove he is not, rather than them to prove he is, is beyond me. Another bungle or deliberate action, you choose. This would cost a grand a time and the residents can complain every practice and event so its simply not worth carrying on.

I should be able to get the test done fairly, and cheaper if that helps. Pm sent Rick

[Reckless]

yeh mate good but from what I can understand the test has to be done on every complaint. Which could happen 6 times a month if they complain each time there is riding there. So its all set up against him!

[CHOPPA]

I called race line, doesnt say there is a race on...? Just says there is riding? doesnt say what time etc etc Would like to support the place but need more info! Anyone?

[takitimu]

spoke to james today heres the plan we can all go to ride at thunder and james will knock the price down to 15 each the other 5 goes to the ardmore fund so lets all rock out to thunder and show our support and james will have the mx track sorted for those who want to ride on it
so if we can get 100 ppl out there sat and sun its money to help ardmore

That's real generous of James given he's fighting his own resource consent battles, I'm wondering if we need something like this http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Linux_Legal_Defense_Fund /

It seems to me we need something which businesses/riders can donate to that can provide advice for people fighting to keep tracks along with the lawyers representing them.

[theblacksmith]

This might sound stupid - feel free to tell me it is - but could Fair Go or some other tv crowd help the situation?
Does'nt seem fair does it? Have a think - some publicity and public awareness could do no harm.

[Zapf]

So where and when do you need us?

[CHOPPA]

This might sound stupid - feel free to tell me it is - but could Fair Go or some other tv crowd help the situation?
Does'nt seem fair does it? Have a think - some publicity and public awareness could do no harm.

sounds like a good idea but they would prob side with the house owners!

[CookMySock]

One thing courts do NOT like to do, is to alienate 90% of any disposition of people. If it were 10% then the fallout will be minor, but 90% - a judge will not want his name on that case law, as it is a target to get overturned shortly after.

HTH, and good luck.
Steve

[camchain]

Speak now or forever hold your (cod) piece.

If this doesn't set off a high decibel alarm for all of us then nothing will. As Reckless very aptly put - a negative environment court ruling will be a new line in the sand with very wide ranging implications for ALL riding areas.

The inital good result after hearings seemed to indicate Council appears to have been reasonable and willing to hear both sides, but thought result sounded too good to be true. Council is one thing but Environment Court (with political appointmentees to jobs) will be a different ball game.

Disheartening to hear the club has accumulated a pile of debt as this sounds like riders haven't been shouldering the burden properly. I think I can imagine how frustrated John Cobb (and Co) must feel as I've been banging my head against bureaucratic brick walls fighting a medical/legal battle myself (Thanks for the creeping cancer of political correctness infecting government depts and life in general, Uncle Helen).

New Zealand used to be a place where a "Can Do" attitude defined national character. "Can't do" style thinking (with all it's rules and restrictions) is taking over, and the country has been going downhill because of it.

You don't always get to choose which battles you fight in life but you should always ask yourself this. Am I a someone who goes away with my tail between my legs or am I someone who is prepared to do something?

If James Fowlie (Thundercross park) is donating some of his already modest ride fee income, this is far from fair on him and others who already do so much to make it possible for us to ride. If riding dirt bikes is an important part of our lives then straight away giving an another hour or two worth of time/income towards this effort is the least we can do and the right place to start.

If anyone knows John's number, can they give him a call and get the club bank account details put up here - maybe a sticky thread top of page KB meister? I can ill afford it but I'm willing to tip $50 into the account right now. That debt needs to be sorted before tackling whatever comes next.

(Sorry if this sounds like a lecture, but only interested in results. Not wanting to *ball-boot anyone)

*Note: Special conditions apply. Offer available where ball-booting mandatory or appropriate.

[theblacksmith]

sounds like a good idea but they would prob side with the house owners!
True-unless we get more riders involved than house owners. Can a meeting of riders be set up somewhere/sometime so that all of us can be given the info of whats really happening, what were up against and then ideas forwarded and evaluated - are there any riders that anyone knows that are lawyers and/or legal advisors? Someone willing to advise without scaring us all with fees.There is power in numbers guys - isnt the internet about giving those numbers the power to communicate?Even if we all meet in Ardmore one day for a "quiet meeting" of sharing info and ideas. Can we get the bike dealerships on our side? Auto Trader, bike accessory dealers - DRD,MNZ, etc - lets face it -this will affect more than just riders at the end of the day.

[motorbyclist]

fighting an experienced group who have had years of fun in court at the ratepayers and taxpayers expense fighting the Warbirds, Ardmore Airfield, the Kennel Club and now us.

that's what really irks me

even though i've never ridden there, and don't plan on making the trip any time soon until my bike is quiet enough to ride there, i give my full support to this cause. if i had money i'd probably give it.... i think we need a fundraiser. any in the tubes?

[Teava]

Can we get the bike dealerships on our side? Auto Trader, bike accessory dealers - DRD,MNZ, etc - lets face it -this will affect more than just riders at the end of the day. 100% with you on this one, dealers should have notices in there shops (maybe some do) and let the general public know about this issue, lets face it not every rider logs on to Kiwibiker. Maybe a call to the Motorcycle Trader could be the go and make them aware of the situation.
I know that this has been a never ending battle for John for many years and dont understand why this Globally recognised sport (which us kiwis seem to be very good at) are getting so much grief about. To excel at this sport we need facilities like Ardmore.

[Ktmboy]

The Kawasaki Sandpit would help out here either way.

If there is any literature that needs handing out we'd do that.

Maybe get something done for this weekend.
Ken Fells - 250 riders
Waitemata Family Day - 250 riders.
The Sandpit, Kimmys and Thunder - 600 riders.

Thats over a thousand just this weekend alone.

[noobi]

could someone move the thread to the biker politics and law forum
ive heard that lawyers and the like post around there, if we want a lawyers view on how we stand?

[Reckless]

Ok all thanks for all your input! I think John may be at the environment court now according to the raceline. Ring it 268-0886 now its still the message for last Sundays meeting. You will hear what sort of guy he is!

As I said before, unfortunately for me, I haven't been involved in this so I don't quite know the state of the play. I have emailed John and asked him to read through the thread and I will have a discussion with him when he calls and update you guys as to the strategies him or his team want to employ (if any) from here on in.

You never know this little private track/club could be very important in what happens in all our futures.

Thanks again to all the KBers putting their hands up to help!

[Reckless]

could someone move the thread to the biker politics and law forum
ive heard that lawyers and the like post around there, if we want a lawyers view on how we stand?


Patience young Noobi! I think they probably have had lots of legal advice to this point. Lets leave this here until I can find out how they would like us to help, if they want it, and if they think we can. There has been alot of smart people involved up till now so this isn't a KB take over just an offer of assistance in any way we can?
Remember this is still only a KB thread and quite often when called to do something, sometimes people are all of a sudden "busy".
At this point I think we should let John decide how things should proceed.

[noobi]

i know but when they start messing with our passion:Oi::Pokey:

[cheese]

How about we try to get a heap of people out on next wed and raise some money and give him $20 instead of the usual $10.

[cheese]

Oh next wed is the 4-8 hours aye?:Pokey:

[Reckless]

It simply may not be open to go mate!
I think that depends on what happens over the next few days!

[Reckless]

Okay here's the latest news straight from John this morning!
Track is open today from 2pm till 6pm then after this weekend the daylight savings times start at 4pm.
I can't get there early enough to ride but I might go out and give him my Hundy to help the cause!

Might help a lot if anyone going out there in future makes sure their muffler as packed or take your super trap off for that ride if you own a 4 stroke!!!!!!!!!!!!

AN UPDATE FROM ARDMORE

Hi everyone ­ thanks for all your encouragement and support over the last few weeks, its been great to see everyone pulling together on this. Mike Cameron drew up our appeal to the Environment Court and then we also wrote our own memorandum to the court replying to the Concerned Resident Groups attempt to get the court to close us down until the hearings. The Councils lawyers have come out and supported our position, agreeing that we should continue to operate under the Stay until the hearings. The CRGs lawyers have had another go at forcing a hearing on the closure, but now we have received help from a leading environmental lawyer thanks to one of our members and I am really confident that we can keep the track open while we fight this.

I can't stress how important It was for us to contest the resource consent decision. We could still have operated Ardmore as a mini trail bike park under the conditions of the consent, but although running the track exclusively for the minis would have been great for my kids and anyone else with a PW50, it would have sucked for everyone else. You also have to remember that the Concerned Residents Group and the neighbor with the landfill are appealing us to the Environment Court with the aim of closing us down completely.

Ardmore is the one track in NZ that not only got full council approval but also got a court ruling in its favor before it opened. I know that clubs all around the country are waiting to see what happens, just like we all waited to see how Western Springs got on. Most tracks don't have much in the way of up to date planning permission and are relying on existing use rights.
Existing use rights apply to clubs like Puke who got council permission to run their activity prior to the Resource Management Act being passed in 1991. Ardmore also got Council permission but went through public hearings and got appealed to the high court (called the Town Planning Tribunal back
then) so Ardmore had about as much in the way of permission as you could get at the time. So the track at Harrisville has council permission and existing use rights. Ardmore has a council consent and a Town planning Tribunal (now called the Environment Court ) ruling, plus existing use rights.

Existing use rights do not apply however, where there are environmental effects. If for example the councils had said it was ok to build a timber mill at Ardmore and another at Harrisville, the timber mills would still be able to operate under their existing use rights. However if there are new air emission standards which now require smoke coming out of timber mill chimneys to be cleaner, then both mills are going to have to put big filters on their smoke stacks. If sound from both mills is reaching 65 decibels at the nearest houses and the rural limit is 55 db, then both mills are going to have to cut their noise output. Existing use rights are in place, but it does not get you off the hook on environmental effects.

Ardmore is under 55 db at the nearest houses but the resource consent ruling by the hearings panel states that individual bikes must be tested using the FIM procedures and that 4 strokes must be under 94 db while 2 stokes must be under 96 db. The appeal is going to the Environment Court and if we don¹t get this part of the ruling chucked out, then the ruling will become case law and can then be applied elsewhere around NZ. Usually these decisions don¹t get overturned later, they just get reinforced with more conditions, that's why its really important for us to fight this now.

If we lose, the neighbors at Puke for example, will be able to successfully argue that the latest Environment Court ruling involving Ardmore vs the Papakura District Council, determined that all 4 strokes at Motocross tracks should be less than 94 db using the FIM test when individually tested and 96 db for 2 strokes. A compliance officer can then come out with an acoustic engineer and start testing the bikes. Most will fail, so an abatement notice would be issued and Puke will end up in the same process as Ardmore. The same thing can happen to Ken Fell, Grant Leighton, anyone who has got a hostile neighbor. The Council may support you, but the neighbors can insist the ruling of the Environment Court is applied.

The good news is that we are fighting this and we will continue to fight this. I know we can win, its a matter of getting backing and the right people to put up the right arguments. What I have come to realise over the last two years of fighting for the survival of the track is that we are all in this together and we are going to have to start sticking up for each other rather than hiding in a corner hoping we don¹t get noticed. The CRG is an experienced group who have had years in court at the ratepayers and taxpayers expense, fighting the Warbirds, Ardmore Airfield, the Kennel Club and now Ardmore Raceway. These people have probably already got funding from the Government and are now looking at fighting us in court until their play money runs out. Then they will fold up the Concerned Residents Group Incorporated (so we can¹t go them for costs) and form a new society so they can start fighting their next victims which will probably be the shooting club which is trying to relocate next door to the track.

I want to thank all the people who have put money into our legal battle so far. If you want to help out with a donation, we have decided to treat all donations as advance payments on membership fees. Darren for example, gave us a cheque for $100 last weekend to help with the legal battle so we will put that in a separate account and record it as 2 years of membership. We have our new membership cards printed and we will start posting these out shortly. Thanks again for all your support.

JC

[Reckless]

Just thought i'd update you al on the Ardmore situation.
John through a very kind offer has got an environmental lawyer to help out. So things are looking a bit brighter from his point of view.

Newsletter here

ARDMORE SUMMER HOURS UPDATE

Hi everyone, we are now into daylight saving hours so Ardmore will be open on Wednesdays from 4.00 pm until 8.00 pm through until next winter. The ground was soft and crumbly when I bulldozed and powerharrowed the track on Monday and we have had a few light showers over the last few days, so it should be perfect for riding this afternoon. I am working on the racemag which should go out on Thursday night with Round 7 of the Wildman is this Sunday 5th October.

I have to get a memorandum to the Environment Court this morning on the meeting we had with the Marie Van Es and the Concerned Residents Groups lawyer last Friday. We discussed their petition to the court to close the track through until the hearings. Mike Cameron was representing the club along with a leading environmental lawyer, Jeremy Brabant, who was there thanks to Bob Grove. After Jeremy had spoken with their lawyer, the CRG had obviously got the message that they weren't going to be successful if we went to a court hearing, so the whole meeting revolved around talking about what restrictions from our new resource consent should be incorporated into the Environment Court Stay through until the next round of hearings.

We agreed to sound test bikes and stop bikes over 100 decibels (using the FIM test) from using the track. We also agreed to control dust (which we are already doing) and we are also going to continue running Wednesday practice rides from 4.00 pm until 8.00 pm in summer and from 1.00 pm through until 6.00 pm next winter or until the hearings, whichever comes first. Both lawyers agreed the process could take awhile. We won't open on public holidays and we will close from December 23rd until January 10th. The CRG were trying to get us to restrict our racemeets to one Sunday a month but we are sticking with running on every alternate Sunday as per the Environment Court Stay. At least now we can work out a calendar for the rest of the year and get the racemag out.

Thanks to Mike, Jeremy and Bob for making sure we stay in action through until the hearings and thanks to all the people who have emailed, offering to pay their memberships in advance to help with the legal costs. The Manukau Trail Riders ASB account is 694378 123032 0866400 00 and the account name is MTR Inc. Its important to remember that the CRGs aim is still the same, to get us closed down completely and they will be joined in court by the neighbor with the landfill, so we are going to have a lot of things to get organised over the next few months through to Christmas.

See you at the track.

JC

Its all above but please make sure your bikes are quite when you go out there!!!!!!!!!!