KLR650 (07->) speedo accuracy check

[shards]

Just bought an 09 (black) and the speedo reads way different (lower) than the 07 that I had earlier.

What speed do you guys read at 5000rpm in top gear? Or, if it's easier, what's the kph per 1000rpm in top gear?

Mine seems to get less accurate as the speeds increase.

Just for comparison :

Last bike (07) 5000rpm in top was 125kph
This bike (09) 5000rpm in top is 115

Thanks in advance for any input.

Steve

[marks]

5000 rpm is 125kph on my 07 - I suspect it reads a bit high

so you decided to get one after all?
you going to put all those bits and pieces on it?

was the 07 you sold an oil burner?

[cooneyr]

Is there different gearing? (suspect not but had to ask).

Get a GPS of somebody and check it out that way. Seems most cars are 5km optimistic and most bikes are 10km optimistic.

Cheers R

[shards]

The 07 didn't burn ANY oil, just didn't like the colour, (sorry again Pete) and I wanted a new bike since I am going to put all those (expensive) bits on.

I know that the first owner of that 07 would most likely have run it in hard (his previous bike was a Hayabusa!!!!) and I wonder if that is (at least part of) the secret to NOT getting an oil burner.

I will not be babying my one either so I'll keep you posted.

If my 07 was 10kph optimistic, that means that my 09 is "true". That's impossible isn't it?

[pete376403]

According to the various forums (KLR650.net, advrider, etc) the KLRs usually report 10% under (ie 110 indicated is 100 actual) but given that these are mostly US forums and therefore talking miles rather than kilometers per hour maybe we get a different speedo.(and different degree of inaccuracy).

IIRC 4000 rpm (or very close to it) is around 100k/hr. Will check if I get out on the Wgtn Wednesday night ride tonight.

Also, given that mechanical tachos (apart from old Smiths Chronometric*) work on exactly the same principle - rotating magnetic field dragging a steel cup against a return spring - as mechanical speedometers, who's to say a tach reading is any more accurate than a speedo reading?

Anyway, KLR speedos should be calibrated in millilitres (of engine oil) per kilometer - that apparently is the most accurate measurement of all.


*Obscure trivia - Smiths Chronometrics (tacho and speedo) as found on old Brit bikes were very accurate as they measured rotation (or the drive cable) against time.

[shards]

Pete, You are very cynical regarding the oil burners, does that mean you have one?

[warewolf]

*Obscure trivia - Smiths Chronometrics (tacho and speedo) as found on old Brit bikes were very accurate as they measured rotation (or the drive cable) against time.Rotated once last year, and twice the year before that??!!

:chase:

[marks]

if your old green one, Pete's green one and my green one all indicate 125 @5000 it just proves that the green ones are faster than the less desirable black ones :Punk:

[shards]

Maybe so, but the black ones will last longer!

Joking aside, since the final drive sprockets (fr $ rr) are the same size, I wonder if Kawi changed any internal ratios to make the bike rev higher. Common folklore or heresay has it that a bike runs better if it revs higher even though our "human" tendancy is to keep the engine relaxed.

[marks]

seeing as you advertised a copy of a manual would you mind looking up the torque settings for the clutch center nut and the water pump impeller nut - I have to install my rekluse clutch this weekend and don't have a manual.

cheers


Mark

[shards]

Murphy's Law! The manual sold to a guy in Aussie before I had a change of mind and pulled the ads. Today, I re-purchased another from the same place in New York (and paid a lot more DOH!!!) but it probably won't be here until next week. You'll have to find out from somewhere else, or just use the "human" torque wrench, and I'll let you know what they should be when I get the replacement manual.

Maybe post a question on klr650.net, someone there is bound to have a manual.

[pete376403]

Yeah I've got an oil burner. Doesn't really worry me and I love the bike despite that. Kawi NZ are going to replace the rings and valve guide seals under warranty so I'm quite happy about that.

Re the speed/rev difference on the '09, maybe you have found the elusive 6th gear that the users manual mentions. try as I may, I can't get mine to change up from 5th

Marks - I've got the KLR manual in PDF format. Its actually the KLR600 manual with the 650 supplement. However these things changed so little over the past 20 odd years that it's still largely current.

Anyway clutch centre nut 13.5kg/m or 98 ft/ib, water pump nut 0.8kg/m or 69 in/lb

[pete376403]

Rotated once last year, and twice the year before that??!!

:chase:
Nah, bit more complex than that.
See http://velobanjogent.blogspot.com/2008/03/smiths-chronometric-speedometer-and_21.html for a long description of how they work and
here http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=q8-OdL43z6k to see one working.

They were extremely accurate - the MOT used to fit the old chrono speedos to the new cop bikes (back in the day when BSA and Triumph 650s were used)

[warewolf]

Common folklore or heresay has it that a bike runs better if it revs higher even though our "human" tendancy is to keep the engine relaxed.It's a complex issue but there is some truth to that.

"Relaxed", or slow-revving? More people tend to labour their engines (= high load low rpm) rather than rev them (= high revs low load), a point of view shared with many and varied riding instructors over the years. I don't call a labouring engine "relaxed". Modern engines are built to rev, not just because they are better built but because they are designed to utilise that better build. Motorcycle engines more so, given the small displacement (and resultant mass) of each piston and it's associated hardware. Even so-called "torquey" engines these days are short-strokers.

Some bikes are said to be configured "loaded down", that is at cruising speed where the noise & pollution tests are done, the engine is at artificially low revs (from a power/performance point of view) to score well in the tests. Response and maybe economy can improve by gearing down the bike. Allegedly the manufacturers also do things like play with the ignition curves to improve the test results, such as reducing the engine's tendency to accelerate out of the test zone (where the results may not be as good).

Really the only way to improve things is to 'suck it and see'. Some bikes will improve with taller gearing, some by going the other way... it just depends on where it's at and where you want to be. And golly gosh, occasionally the factory will have reached the same compromise you will! ;)

[warewolf]

Nah, bit more complex than that. I wasn't doubting the capability of the instrument, but rather the bike it was measuring!

[monchopper]

Like cooneyr said use a GPS
It will give you an extremely accurate reading.
For best results use on flat road under open sky.

[shards]

Borrowing a friends GPS over the weekend, will verify the wifes car and then follow her to check the KLR.

Pete: It's good to know that at least Kawi NZ was decent enough to "come to the party" with the rings and valve guides. Like you, I won't care either way, especially as I will, at some point, do the 685 comversion. It's amazing how much money people will spend on an exhaust and just get a few (sometimes NO) extra hp yet the 685 kit is CHEAPER and will probably give more overall benefit to the engine.

Warewolf, couldn't agree more with what you said!

[marks]

Marks - I've got the KLR manual in PDF format. Its actually the KLR600 manual with the 650 supplement. However these things changed so little over the past 20 odd years that it's still largely current.

Anyway clutch centre nut 13.5kg/m or 98 ft/ib, water pump nut 0.8kg/m or 69 in/lb

Thanks a lot Pete

BTW - mine seems to be using less oil (400ml/1000km) after I gave it an oil/filter change (and screwed the airfilter back on :shit:) - don't understand that at all

cheers

Mark

[RedKLR650]

The 07 didn't burn ANY oil, just didn't like the colour, (sorry again Pete) and I wanted a new bike since I am going to put all those (expensive) bits on.

What colour was your old one ?

I when got my first '05 KLR you could only get green, not the red that was available in the USA, and I hated the green, so imported a tank and full panel set from the US...... instant red one :-)

I do have a brand new full set of green plastic panelling for sale if anyone is interested :-)

Stu

[cooneyr]

Like cooneyr said use a GPS
It will give you an extremely accurate reading.
For best results use on flat road under open sky.

Extremely accurate might be a little bit strong words. Don't confuse accuracy with precision (page about it here (http://honolulu.hawaii.edu/distance/sci122/SciLab/L5/accprec.html)).

Cheers R

[shards]

My 07 was the regulation green/black/silver.

[marks]

My 07 was the regulation green/black/silver.

did you get a trade in price on the old one when looking at the new one?

[shards]

Sold the old 07 via trademe to a buyer (in Wlg). I did ask the dealer for an approximate trade-in value and he said "Don't ask". When pushed for a figure he said something like "less than 6000".

If they are selling new ones for around 9k, they can't expect to get much more than 7.5k for a used one, and it follows that (since they expect to get at least 1500-2000 profit per bike) they won't offer more than 6k for a used one.

[Creeper]

Yeah I've got an oil burner. Doesn't really worry me and I love the bike despite that. Kawi NZ are going to replace the rings and valve guide seals under warranty so I'm quite happy about that.

Re the speed/rev difference on the '09, maybe you have found the elusive 6th gear that the users manual mentions. try as I may, I can't get mine to change up from 5th

Marks - I've got the KLR manual in PDF format. Its actually the KLR600 manual with the 650 supplement. However these things changed so little over the past 20 odd years that it's still largely current.

Anyway clutch centre nut 13.5kg/m or 98 ft/ib, water pump nut 0.8kg/m or 69 in/lb

Hi Pete, how much oil was yr bike burning for Kawa NZ to front up with new rings etc.....I note Mark's is using 400 per 1000.
Mine seemed to have burned 700ml in 1200ks shop changed to a different oil, so far it seems to be all good but need to put some more ks on it yet.

Have kawa stated that the new 09 model has different rings?? Does anyone know??

Cheers

Dave

[pete376403]

Last long ride was just over 1600km in a weekend. I put 1 1/2 litres in while on that ride to keep oil in the sight glass, plus it took another litre after I was home to get it back up to just over the mid point on the sight glass - after it had been sitting overnight (time to allow drain back from the head, etc) and I'm very careful about holding it vertical while checking (spirit level on the handlebars)
I think the kicker for the ring replacement was having a copy of the e-mail between Kawi NZ and Kawi Japan in which the different part number piston rings are described and the reason for the change - to reduce oil consumption. With that sort of documentation it's pretty hard for them to deny there is a problem.
I'm not in a big funk about the ring problem, I understand that these sort of things happen. Even if they wouldn't change the rings I'd still keep the bike, it's brilliant at what it does and the upside is the muffler will never rust out (well it can't anyway cos it's stainless)
The 685 kit would be the next option but I paid full price for the bike and the price included a warranty.

Given that the ring pack has a new part number I'd certainly expect that these would be in the '09 but no way to prove it without access to the shop online manuals

[Creeper]

thanks for the reply Pete. That sure is some massive oil consumption....
Keep hold of that Kawa email, there may be some other klr owners out there who could make good use of it.
and you're right, warts & all it is still a great bike!!

[Frodo]

Speedos are designed (required) to read high. The specs for my bike are 6% high while the odometer is 0% high (says in the manual). Testing on the road (those speed readout signs peppered around Wellington) and 4km odometer calibration tests show that my bike is about 6% high in speed, spot on accurate in distance. If Aprilia can make the odometer accurate, they could get the speedo accurate, its just that design rules prevent that. Its another way to encourage us to ride (and drive) slower. About as useful as setting your watch 5 minutes fast so you arrive at meetings on time...

[cobber]

Yeah I've got an oil burner. Doesn't really worry me and I love the bike despite that. Kawi NZ are going to replace the rings and valve guide seals under warranty so I'm quite happy about that.

Re the speed/rev difference on the '09, maybe you have found the elusive 6th gear that the users manual mentions. try as I may, I can't get mine to change up from 5th

Marks - I've got the KLR manual in PDF format. Its actually the KLR600 manual with the 650 supplement. However these things changed so little over the past 20 odd years that it's still largely current.

Anyway clutch centre nut 13.5kg/m or 98 ft/ib, water pump nut 0.8kg/m or 69 in/lb

Any of you klr650 guys out there want a rolling chassis or have a motor/ trans for sale, a friend of mine has a 2001 with 27000km on the clock in very tidy cond that spat a tooth off third gear and stuffed the cases.

[marks]

Any of you klr650 guys out there want a rolling chassis or have a motor/ trans for sale, a friend of mine has a 2001 with 27000km on the clock in very tidy cond that spat a tooth off third gear and stuffed the cases.

if he decides to sell parts off I would be interested to know what he would want for the barrel.

[RedKLR650]

Any of you klr650 guys out there want a rolling chassis or have a motor/ trans for sale, a friend of mine has a 2001 with 27000km on the clock in very tidy cond that spat a tooth off third gear and stuffed the cases.

What's he after for the whole thing as is ? :argue:

I have a cunning plan...... :doctor:

Stu :(

[pete376403]

Put a Versys / ER6N motor into it. Wee-strom killer for sure and could give the 800BMW a hurry up as well

[cobber]

What's he after for the whole thing as is ? :argue:

I have a cunning plan...... :doctor:

Stu :(

I will go see him tonight, have you got a ph no? as it will be better to talk direct to him.
regards Rog.

[RedKLR650]

0 3 688 5050 or 0274 342 372 or stu@photographs.co.nz Cheers, Stu

[cobber]

0 3 688 5050 or 0274 342 372 or stu@photographs.co.nz Cheers, Stu

Thanks Stu have passed numbers on, so hope you can work something out between you both.
regards Rog.