Newbies and UoA riders - this is aimed at you!!

[madbikeboy]

Okay boys and girls,

I just witnessed a young guy on a Suzuki Bandit 250 get launched skywards after a cager pulled a u-turn on Symonds street outside the UoA.

Young guy looked to be okay, the Ambo's are carting him up to Auckland as I write this - his bike is comprehensively Donald Ducked (fucked for those of you who are a bit slow). I stopped and made sure he was allright, and then wasted 40 minutes chatting to a cop (who was actually a deccent sort). While a little worse for wear, he'll grow the bits back evenutally. Would have been better if he had've had more skin left though.


Now, this is really simple, and it's a rant that you'd better pay attention to:
You have no right to be on a bike without the correct safety gear. An ill-fitting jacket and third-hand scratched lid do not afford you the protection you need, even with the halo of invincibility that youth and knowing it all affords you.

Street shoes and pants will not keep your skin intact, nor will they keep your bones aligned.

Each day I drive Symonds Street, and I watch 100's of people cross the road without looking, and inevitably, every car either pulls out without looking, or does the u-turn without giving a second thought. There is a certain inevitability at play here. Ride carefully, ride protected with the right gear. If you can't afford the gear, take the bus instead.


Rant over. As you were.
MBB.

[Kickaha]

You have no right to be on a bike without the correct safety gear.


Until legislated otherwise with the exception of helmets they have every right to dress as they please

Whether or not that is sensible is another issue entirely

[madbikeboy]

From a strictly legal perspective, quite correct.

From a biker's perspective, where I have to pay more to register the scoot than a cager does because of ACC levies, where people at BBQ's show me scars, where I get called a temporary NZ'er at least once a week, and where I watch the stats showing an increase of injuries that is disproportionately higher than the increase in bike registrations...

Each to their own, some people like country music and anal sex with other men... Doesn't mean the smart ones need to do it?

[Squiggles]

what colour was the bike? still in the middle of the road?

[Gremlin]

what colour was the bike? still in the middle of the road?
happened a while ago, and MBB spent 40 min talking to cops... I assume its been carted off

[ital916]

oh no...not good, which of the club members ride a bandit squigs? Hopefully not one of ours, ay least he is not seriously injured. There is a black 250 bandit rider at uni though that hoons around in shorts, cut me off on my bike once.

[madbikeboy]

happened a while ago, and MBB spent 40 min talking to cops... I assume its been carted off

Bike was on the road for under 2 minutes - black Bandit 250, rider is okay, minus skin and shaken.

Car was a silver honda torneo driven by someone who likely eats a lot of sticky rice. :Police: Driver is looking at Careless or Dangerous, yet to be determined. Young guy is looking at some time at home watching Oprah (life can really suck).

[<Rhino>]

Tis a shame people dont think of themselves and the worst case scenario.

If belive you should always prepare for the worst and hope for the best. You'll live longer that way!

[PirateJafa]

From a biker's perspective, where I have to pay more to register the scoot than a cager does because of ACC levies, where people at BBQ's show me scars, where I get called a temporary NZ'er at least once a week, and where I watch the stats showing an increase of injuries that is disproportionately higher than the increase in bike registrations...

Each to their own, some people like country music and anal sex with other men... Doesn't mean the smart ones need to do it?

Your argument is fundamentally flawed.

If we extend your reasoning along the same line, we end up with: "you have no right to ride a motorbike... if you can't afford a safe, boring car, take the bus instead."

And to be fair Drider, I've seen you cut people off before too - I'm disinclined to place him in the "hoon" category just because of that.

Parking at UoA has only gone downhill since the Alfred St. parking was removed.

[ital916]

Your argument is fundamentally flawed.

If we extend your reasoning along the same line, we end up with: "you have no right to ride a motorbike... if you can't afford a safe, boring car, take the bus instead."

And to be fair Drider, I've seen you cut people off before too - I'm disinclined to place him in the "hoon" category just because of that.

He cut me off while i was turning towards the domain on the outisde, on a 20k turn. But fair enough, we have all done some shit riding in the past, yourself included.

[madbikeboy]

Your argument is fundamentally flawed.

If we extend your reasoning along the same line, we end up with: "you have no right to ride a motorbike... if you can't afford a safe, boring car, take the bus instead."

And to be fair Drider, I've seen you cut people off before too - I'm disinclined to place him in the "hoon" category just because of that.

Parking at UoA has only gone downhill since the Alfred St. parking was removed.

Fundamentally flawed huh? I think the reasoning that you're applying is due to living most of your formative years under the nanny state that is Helen. Keep it on point - riding without the correct gear is stupid. End of sentence.

[motorbyclist]

it's a wonder this doesn't happen more often

i've had 3 near misses on that road in 3 semesters

[PirateJafa]

Fundamentally flawed huh? I think the reasoning that you're applying is due to living most of your formative years under the nanny state that is Helen. Keep it on point - riding without the correct gear is stupid. End of sentence.

You pretty much completely managed to avoid my point.

You appear to be the one supporting a "nanny state", with your view that all bikers "must" wear appropriate safety gear.

What even defines "correct" gear? Currently the law defines it as a helmet that meets certain safety standards. Evidently this is not enough for you. You want everyone to wear more gear as well? Jackets? Gloves? Pants? Boots? What next? Back protectors? Hi-viz vests? What do you define as "correct" gear? It seems purely subjective to me.

You consider it only fair, from your perspective, that all bikers should minimise the risks to themselves by wearing full safety gear.

But when you reach that point, is it not also fair, from a car-driver's perspective, that bikers should minimise the risks by not biking?

It's a slippery slope you tread there MBB.

[PirateJafa]

it's a wonder this doesn't happen more often

i've had 3 near misses on that road in 3 semesters

The SMC did warn unisafe about this. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1473138#post1473138)


7. Is the university aware that the parking of motorcycles under the commons is in response to the frequency of "near misses" where students trying to negotiate into a tight parking slot find themselves caught by a wave of traffic?
8. Is the university aware that the parking of motorcycles under the commons is in response to the frequency of "near misses" where students trying to negotiate out of a parking spot cannot see traffic (and vice versa) due to the trees blocking everyone's view?
10. Is it not in the best interests of the university to ensure that it's students are not physically crippled by an avoidable accident?

Admittedly it was more about parking under the commons etc, which has since been okay'd, but I believe the same points were raised when the Alfred St. parking was removed? (Can't be bothered trawling through your posts looking Andrew)

[Grub]

You consider it only fair, from your perspective, that all bikers should minimise the risks to themselves by wearing full safety gear.

Sounds entirely sensible to me ... same as pushbike helmets, seatbelts and not drinking and driving. If people don't expect to be able to go to hospital, receive ACC and get rehabilitation support then your point is valid.

However if they expect to have any of those things available to them as a matter of 'right' then they have to take personal responsibility to minimise the damage and length of time taken to heal.

It's simple. If you are one of those peole who want the "freedom" to do as you please, then you should have to sign an opt-out clause where you get left on the side of the road for the dogs, cats and rats to deal with. If you don't want that then get real!

[KiwiKat]

Been there and done that. It hurts. There is an urge to get on the bike and ride, safety gear is a pain in the ass but a necessity. I'm lucky to be alive several times over and would not have the scars I have if I had worn proper gear. Light jersey, jeans and jacket does nothing. I was mostly saved because I slid on my leather gloves and had a decent helmet. Be very wary of the caged beast.

[Ixion]

Sounds entirely sensible to me ... same as pushbike helmets, seatbelts and not drinking and driving. If people don't expect to be able to go to hospital, receive ACC and get rehabilitation support then your point is valid.

However if they expect to have any of those things available to them as a matter of 'right' then they have to take personal responsibility to minimise the damage and length of time taken to heal.

It's simple. If you are one of those peole who want the "freedom" to do as you please, then you should have to sign an opt-out clause where you get left on the side of the road for the dogs, cats and rats to deal with. If you don't want that then get real!
Reply With Quote

Maybe. but you lose all rights to that sanctimonious position unless you also only ever wear a plain white helmet and a hi-vis vest. Do you ?

And the original posters polemic would have been a lot more convincing if he had a different avatar!

And I don't expect anyone else to pay my share of ACC. In fact I almost certainly subsidise most of you, especially the wheelie brigade.

[Ragingrob]

I do not know why this is aimed at UoA riders... We all know that there are quite a few bikers out there who aren't too struck up about having full gear or not.

Sure rant about it to newbies so it gets drilled into their head and hopefully it will save their skin and bones, but a special mention towards UoA riders just because that's who got hit is a bit random. Why stereotype one biker to an entire university?

Our uni club the SMC is quite heavy on gear and the majority of guys in the club wear ATGATT.

I'd just say this guy has definitely learnt the hard way, and hope he's a bit smarter about gear in the future.

[PirateJafa]

Sounds entirely sensible to me ... same as pushbike helmets, seatbelts and not drinking and driving. If people don't expect to be able to go to hospital, receive ACC and get rehabilitation support then your point is valid.

:bash:

But what do you consider "äcceptable" then?

Should everyone who ventures onto the roads be wearing a one-piece leather racing suit then? Oh and a $1,000 Shoei helmet of course. Plain white for visibility. And don't forget the fire-retardant suit, just in case.

Or will ACC base the payout on how much gear they were wearing? 20% for a helmet, 15% for jacket, 15% for gloves etc? :rolleyes:

[outlawtorn]

Okay boys and girls,

I just witnessed a young guy on a Suzuki Bandit 250 get launched skywards after a cager pulled a u-turn on Symonds street outside the UoA.

Young guy looked to be okay, the Ambo's are carting him up to Auckland as I write this - his bike is comprehensively Donald Ducked (fucked for those of you who are a bit slow). I stopped and made sure he was allright, and then wasted 40 minutes chatting to a cop (who was actually a deccent sort). While a little worse for wear, he'll grow the bits back evenutally. Would have been better if he had've had more skin left though.


Now, this is really simple, and it's a rant that you'd better pay attention to:
You have no right to be on a bike without the correct safety gear. An ill-fitting jacket and third-hand scratched lid do not afford you the protection you need, even with the halo of invincibility that youth and knowing it all affords you.

Street shoes and pants will not keep your skin intact, nor will they keep your bones aligned.

Each day I drive Symonds Street, and I watch 100's of people cross the road without looking, and inevitably, every car either pulls out without looking, or does the u-turn without giving a second thought. There is a certain inevitability at play here. Ride carefully, ride protected with the right gear. If you can't afford the gear, take the bus instead.


Rant over. As you were.
MBB.

Well said mate, 100% behind you, lets hope noobies and everyone else takes notice!

[madbikeboy]

I do not know why this is aimed at UoA riders... We all know that there are quite a few bikers out there who aren't too struck up about having full gear or not.

Sure rant about it to newbies so it gets drilled into their head and hopefully it will save their skin and bones, but a special mention towards UoA riders just because that's who got hit is a bit random. Why stereotype one biker to an entire university?

Our uni club the SMC is quite heavy on gear and the majority of guys in the club wear ATGATT.

I'd just say this guy has definitely learnt the hard way, and hope he's a bit smarter about gear in the future.



It's aimed at the UoA / newbies because the guy hit was an UoA / noob. Am I talking to fast for y'all, or is logic no longer a required course for you? Also, he's not alone in the group of riders that I see riding from UoA each day as I pass.

I think my point is, that lessons can be learned vicariously.

[madbikeboy]

Maybe. but you lose all rights to that sanctimonious position unless you also only ever wear a plain white helmet and a hi-vis vest. Do you ?

And the original posters polemic would have been a lot more convincing if he had a different avatar!

And I don't expect anyone else to pay my share of ACC. In fact I almost certainly subsidise most of you, especially the wheelie brigade.

You're missing my point and looking for your normal conspiracy "government is going to take away my rights in some Kafta-esque nightmare" with a message about riding with gear commensurate with threat.

[Forest]

I seem to recall that a young student biker get killed on Symonds St by a U-turning driver a few years back (would have been around 2004).

[madbikeboy]

You pretty much completely managed to avoid my point.

You appear to be the one supporting a "nanny state", with your view that all bikers "must" wear appropriate safety gear.

What even defines "correct" gear? Currently the law defines it as a helmet that meets certain safety standards. Evidently this is not enough for you. You want everyone to wear more gear as well? Jackets? Gloves? Pants? Boots? What next? Back protectors? Hi-viz vests? What do you define as "correct" gear? It seems purely subjective to me.

You consider it only fair, from your perspective, that all bikers should minimise the risks to themselves by wearing full safety gear.

But when you reach that point, is it not also fair, from a car-driver's perspective, that bikers should minimise the risks by not biking?

It's a slippery slope you tread there MBB.

Incorrect, I am a biker who just dragged another biker (minus a bunch of skin) off the road after he got hit. His damage was commensurate with the piss poor safety gear that he, like you, seemed not to need.

Your halo of invincibility is blocking your future common sense (which may kick in depending on Darwin and some luck).

You are right, I consider it fair, that bikers should minimise the risks by wearing full gear. Do you think that legislative minimums are enough for you? Do you ride sans gloves, back protector, pants with armour, and boots? I ride with them, there is no law urging me to do so. My slippery slope is paved with good intention (apologies for the mixed metaphor), but your logic is flawed.

I wish I was young and knew it all, I'd go back and shag more 18 year old chicks...

[Ragingrob]

It's aimed at the UoA / newbies because the guy hit was an UoA / noob. Am I talking to fast for y'all, or is logic no longer a required course for you? Also, he's not alone in the group of riders that I see riding from UoA each day as I pass.

I think my point is, that lessons can be learned vicariously.

The ATGATT has been argued a million times on here, and that is all this thread is about again.

On a side note: Many "bikers" at uni are just commuters who have chosen a bike over a scooter, they aren't in it for the actual "riding" as such. Their mindset would be as that of many scooter riders, "commuting 10k or whatever a day in 50kph zones, why should we wear hardout gear?!"

Well know he knows.

[Ixion]

You're missing my point and looking for your normal conspiracy "government is going to take away my rights in some Kafta-esque nightmare" with a message about riding with gear commensurate with threat.

Not at all. You condemn a rider for riding with what you deem suboptimal safety gear. Yet there is overwhelming evidence that white helmets and hi-vis vests are positive safety initiatives. So, riding without them is riding with suboptimal safety gear. Why then should you not be condemned on the same basis as the rider you condemn ? Pot, kettle, etc.

BTW, those who scream for laws to compel riders to wear all the safety gear might like to ponder that the VERY first item of compulsory safety gear will be - yep, a hi-vis vest. Why? Cos before making something mandatory by law, you have to define an accepted standard for what you are making compulsory. Can't make jackets compulsorily until you have a standard that defines what is an acceptable motorcycle jacket for the purposes of the law - otherwise any 'jacket' would suffice.

Now, most motorcycle gear does not have accepted standards that would stand up in a court of law. (except helmets) . Before such a standard can be promulgated, there must be research to prove that adherence to the standard provides a defined level of 'safety'. Which takes a long time and costs a lot of money.

The only non-helmet item that does have such standards already promulgated is the hi-vis vest. The standards were established because they are widely used in industry.

So hi-viz can be mandated at the scratch of a law makers pen. Anything else would take a lot of time and money (for a tiny market by international standards). So, guess which item the Sheeple will choose first?

You'll all look so cute with hi-vis vests over toothpaste suits.

Won't worry me, I wear one anyway. And I'm really pissed off at you ignorant risktakers who don't. I have to pay extra ACC because of you. get with it, fluoro green or fluoro red, your choice.

[PirateJafa]

Incorrect, I am a biker who just dragged another biker (minus a bunch of skin) off the road after he got hit. His damage was commensurate with the piss poor safety gear that he, like you, seemed not to need.

Your halo of invincibility is blocking your future common sense (which may kick in depending on Darwin and some luck).

You are right, I consider it fair, that bikers should minimise the risks by wearing full gear. Do you think that legislative minimums are enough for you? Do you ride sans gloves, back protector, pants with armour, and boots? I ride with them, there is no law urging me to do so. My slippery slope is paved with good intention (apologies for the mixed metaphor), but your logic is flawed.

I wish I was young and knew it all, I'd go back and shag more 18 year old chicks...

I wish I was old and knew it all.

Then I could go and make blanket assumptions about young people.

My halo of invincibility? That's been gone since childhood. I'm no cotton-wool baby.

Hell I've only got 20% mobility in my left arm, due to a bike crash.

Of course, I should have been wearing full gear right?

Oh wait, I was wearing full gear.

Don't worry, avoiding the flaws in your logic will only get you so far. Luckily, relying on baseless stereotypes will get you the rest of the way.

And Rob is right - generally I see a better level of safety gear from the SMC than I see from non-SMC riders.

Pull your head in.

[Ixion]

..


You are right, I consider it fair, that bikers should minimise the risks by wearing full gear. Do you think that legislative minimums are enough for you? Do you ride sans gloves, back protector, pants with armour, and boots? I ride with them, there is no law urging me to do so. My slippery slope is paved with good intention (apologies for the mixed metaphor), but your logic is flawed.



But not a white helmet and hi-viz vest ? tch tch. Shame on you, we have to pay your ACC you know. Your halo of invincibility is blocking your future common sense (which may kick in depending on Darwin and some luck).

[madbikeboy]

:bash:

But what do you consider "äcceptable" then?

Should everyone who ventures onto the roads be wearing a one-piece leather racing suit then? Oh and a $1,000 Shoei helmet of course. Plain white for visibility. And don't forget the fire-retardant suit, just in case.

Or will ACC base the payout on how much gear they were wearing? 20% for a helmet, 15% for jacket, 15% for gloves etc? :rolleyes:

Okay, I'm going to ignore the sarcasm and stupidity and answer thus:
I ride with:
- Decent well fitting lid, I have an HJC and a Shoei, both around $1000.
- Decent jacket, I use either AlpineStars (choice of a few), or I use a Technic which is weather proof
- Decent gloves, I like using my hands, AlpineStars
- Either AlpineStars pants, with armour, or Dianese textiles
- Decent boots with ankle bracing, and with titanium toe sliders
- Dianese back protector.

A one piece suit, or at least top and bottom textiles that zip together are a good idea.

The optional bits are the Titanium toe sliders. Sometimes I replace them with newer ones. I also ride with headlight on. And I ride defensively, keeping a defensive depth, making sure I plan where to go if "x" or "y" happens. I also listen attentively to experienced riders, again this is the living vicariously bit.


Who gives a damn about payouts from ACC - preventing the damage is the object lesson here.

[Ixion]

"Titanium toe sliders" and "ride defensively" are mutually incompatible statements

[madbikeboy]

I wish I was old and knew it all.

Then I could go and make blanket assumptions about young people.

My halo of invincibility? That's been gone since childhood. I'm no cotton-wool baby.

Hell I've only got 20% mobility in my left arm, due to a bike crash.

Of course, I should have been wearing full gear right?

Oh wait, I was wearing full gear.

Don't worry, avoiding the flaws in your logic will only get you so far. Luckily, relying on baseless stereotypes will get you the rest of the way.

And Rob is right - generally I see a better level of safety gear from the SMC than I see from non-SMC riders.

Pull your head in.

Well, I wonder what damage would have occured had you not been wearing gear?

Next time you buy some casual pants to go riding with, make sure they come with built in panty shields. I'll continue merrily on my way, flawed logic intact, with some experience along with some humility, good gear, learnings from old guys I know, and perhaps even some luck.

[madbikeboy]

"Titanium toe sliders" and "ride defensively" are mutually incompatible statements

Again, a viewpoint. If you were sliding down the road, foot trapped between bike and road after getting hit - you might reconsider that position.

[madbikeboy]

The problem with arguing with idiots is that anyone observing is going to have great difficulty telling us apart.

[Griffin]

The problem with arguing with idiots is that anyone observing is going to have great difficulty telling us apart.

Ahhh... hence my signature.

I think your original statement MBB is a good one, with the exception of the "you have no right" bit. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your point of view... people do have the right to put on a third hand scratched helmet, board shorts and a mesh singlet for the added 'cool' factor and ride their bike at 105kph down the motorway if they so wish.

While to you and me... and many of the more sensible amongst us, this may seem incomprehensible, the sad fact is that they have a bike and a helmet... and a desire to ride. You and I just have to accept that our ACC levys and other associated overinflated costs are what they are because this is the case.

[Marmoot]

...where I have to pay more to register the scoot than a cager does because of ACC levies...

The increase of ACC levies and bike injuries may well be irrelevant, despite what the ACC is saying.
The last C in ACC stands for Corporation, and you know what a corporation's goal is.

[madbikeboy]

Ahhh... hence my signature.

I think your original statement MBB is a good one, with the exception of the "you have no right" bit. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your point of view... people do have the right to put on a third hand scratched helmet, board shorts and a mesh singlet for the added 'cool' factor and ride their bike at 105kph down the motorway if they so wish.

While to you and me... and many of the more sensible amongst us, this may seem incomprehensible, the sad fact is that they have a bike and a helmet... and a desire to ride. You and I just have to accept that our ACC levys and other associated overinflated costs are what they are because this is the case.

+1. 10 char minimum...

[chubby]

Excuse the interruption but I find the argument going on here rather pathetic and picky.

Getting back to the original point of the thread. MBB comes across bike verse car accident where the bike rider has come off worse for wear. Getting involved in assistance with the fallen rider (I hope he has a speedy recovery) MBB reflects and makes what i consider to be a very relevant and perinent comment. MBB believes that the injuries sustained would have been lessened had they worn reasonable levels of protective gear.



Each day I drive Symonds Street, and I watch 100's of people cross the road without looking, and inevitably, every car either pulls out without looking, or does the u-turn without giving a second thought. There is a certain inevitability at play here. Ride carefully, ride protected with the right gear. If you can't afford the gear, take the bus instead.


Forget splitting hairs, comments on gramma, legal rights, whether white or black helmets are safer or even if they make the grade on snell rather than sharp. Riding a bike is dangerous and the consequences of accidents can be great. We owe it to ourselves, our families, friends and to all that witness and assist to be as safe as possible in how we ride, how safe the machine that we ride is and what we wear.

Having accepted that, under a seperate heading we can argue what constitutes reasonable leveles of protective gear, reasonable standards of maintenance and reasonable riding skills.

[PirateJafa]

Having accepted that, under a seperate heading we can argue what constitutes reasonable leveles of protective gear, reasonable standards of maintenance and reasonable riding skills.

Not really, this is as good a place as any. I'll happily call bullshit wherever I see it.

The thread about Symonds St. is going on in the correct place for it (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=83094).

That said, this thread is pretty pointless in and of itself. As another user has said to me "It's pointless arguing, he cannot maintain a reasoned debate, picks only the points out that he doesn't find too inconvenient, and is too arrogant to ever see anyone else's point of view."

But that's pretty much par for the course for the internet. :slap:

[Griffin]

That said, this thread is pretty pointless in and of itself.

To be fair... there are many more 'pointless' threads on KB and a multitude of other forums that have as much right to be there as this one does. If you view it as pointless then why are you spending so much energy on arguing within it.

If I read a thread and think to myself 'how pointless was that' I tend to hit the back button and look for a thread that I do get something out of.

MBB original comment (though not unique) was a valid one, with the exception of claiming that you have no right to ride a bike without the appropriate gear. It is a fair opinion to hold, and a fair opinion to state. If you disagree, thats fine - but to claim the thread as pointless when you yourself have been so much a part of it is somewhat lame.

Truth is - we should wear decent gear when riding a motorbike, just like we should wear the appropriate gear for other dangerous activities. Unfortunately, many dont - and then they... and others affected by their demise / injury - suffer the consequences.

[PirateJafa]

....

Truth is - we should wear decent gear when riding a motorbike, just like we should wear the appropriate gear for other dangerous activities. Unfortunately, many dont - and then they... and others affected by their demise / injury - suffer the consequences.

I worded that poorly.

Rather, the thread is pointless as this is a subject that has been covered god only knows how many times on KB before.

Yes, we probably should wear decent gear. But we should not be forced to do it just because we might get hurt. Risk is part of riding, and living - we can minimise it, but not eliminate it.

[madbikeboy]

Not really, this is as good a place as any. I'll happily call bullshit wherever I see it.

The thread about Symonds St. is going on in the correct place for it (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=83094).

That said, this thread is pretty pointless in and of itself. As another user has said to me "It's pointless arguing, he cannot maintain a reasoned debate, picks only the points out that he doesn't find too inconvenient, and is too arrogant to ever see anyone else's point of view."

But that's pretty much par for the course for the internet. :slap:

"Reasoned debate?" Sure thing, kiddo, you got the wallet for the beers, I'll sit and discuss for hours about why, and I'm lucid enough to maintain as long as you're willing to.

Picking the points that I find convenient = Limiting the discussion to the point. You are right about one thing though, the thread is pointless if you're missing it. I'm sure with complexity theory, the end of the world is somehow related to the events that happened today, why limit the conversation to just talking about my point and yours. Let's go nuts and talk about it all.

Arrogant? Not even close.

I was at university for seven years, I can debate, however the years since uni have taught me when the time is well spent doing so.

[chubby]

I find that disappointing. The main message in this thread is that we should all be wearing reasonable protective clothing and I support every effort in getting that point across. However, continuous argueing on what constitutes reasonable protective gear within the same thread only serves to diminish the main point. I see a valid point being lost.

If you don't believe riders should take any steps to protect themselves then argue away. If you do then start a thread on what reasonable protective clothing should be.

[madbikeboy]

To be fair... there are many more 'pointless' threads on KB and a multitude of other forums that have as much right to be there as this one does. If you view it as pointless then why are you spending so much energy on arguing within it.

If I read a thread and think to myself 'how pointless was that' I tend to hit the back button and look for a thread that I do get something out of.

MBB original comment (though not unique) was a valid one, with the exception of claiming that you have no right to ride a bike without the appropriate gear. It is a fair opinion to hold, and a fair opinion to state. If you disagree, thats fine - but to claim the thread as pointless when you yourself have been so much a part of it is somewhat lame.

Truth is - we should wear decent gear when riding a motorbike, just like we should wear the appropriate gear for other dangerous activities. Unfortunately, many dont - and then they... and others affected by their demise / injury - suffer the consequences.

Umm, nicely said. I'm out of bling, will post some in 24 hours.

[madbikeboy]

Excuse the interruption but I find the argument going on here rather pathetic and picky.

Getting back to the original point of the thread. MBB comes across bike verse car accident where the bike rider has come off worse for wear. Getting involved in assistance with the fallen rider (I hope he has a speedy recovery) MBB reflects and makes what i consider to be a very relevant and perinent comment. MBB believes that the injuries sustained would have been lessened had they worn reasonable levels of protective gear.



Forget splitting hairs, comments on gramma, legal rights, whether white or black helmets are safer or even if they make the grade on snell rather than sharp. Riding a bike is dangerous and the consequences of accidents can be great. We owe it to ourselves, our families, friends and to all that witness and assist to be as safe as possible in how we ride, how safe the machine that we ride is and what we wear.

Having accepted that, under a seperate heading we can argue what constitutes reasonable leveles of protective gear, reasonable standards of maintenance and reasonable riding skills.

Again, good points Chubby. I respect your view on this, you're always the sensible one. Cheers.

[chubby]

I apologise my slow typing leaves me behind others.

Rather, the thread is pointless as this is a subject that has been covered god only knows how many times on KB before.


I disagee. Safety is something we should all be concerned about. We have a rider who, by all accounts, would be better off if they had paid head to this sort of discussion. the message hasn't got through. We have new riders coming along every day. They need to hear it too.


Yes, we probably should wear decent gear. But we should not be forced to do it just because we might get hurt. Risk is part of riding, and living - we can minimise it, but not eliminate it.

one of the risks of riding is that we will fall or be hit. we should minimse our own risk of damage. How do we do that? Wear reasonable protective gear. Right we agree... now lets move on and discuss what is reasonable and what is over the top or useless (I expect there are many false perceptions here).

[Ixion]

Again, a viewpoint. If you were sliding down the road, foot trapped between bike and road after getting hit - you might reconsider that position.

"riding defensively" = not being hit. Titanium toe sliders screams "squid". Never seen one riding defensively.

[Ragingrob]

So what happens if I pull out of Symonds st right after this marketing lab, in my helmet, gloves, leather jacket, armoured pants, full riding boots, and get hit by some careless driving?

Can we then make a point that UoA riders are exceptional in terms of riding gear and should be idolised for that?

Or can we only stereotype negative aspects?

That's the logic that doesn't make sense.

[bomma]

who the fuck are you to generalise this to the entire uoa riding crew?!?! in all fucking honesty, the moron who did himself in because of his idiocy isnt even on this site so THIS WHOLE FUCKING RANT IS POINTLESS!!

if i saw a white guy crash his bike, it doesn't give me the right to get onto a public forum and rant on about how white guys are idiots and they should pull their fucking head in.

if you hadnt been such a fucking moron and targeted a group of people unwarrantedly and in a "I AM GOD, HEED MY WARNING" type tone, the point you're trying to get across would be valid......well done ya dumass

hope the guy you rescued recovers quickly and onya for helpin out

[Ixion]

I disagee. Safety is something we should all be concerned about.

Your own safety. By all means. But you have no right to impose your own opinions (based on what you feel is appropriate for you ) on others.

I am probably more concerned about my own safety than any of you of yours. I don't like getting hurt. And I take such steps as I deem appropriate to keep me safe.

I do not demand that anyone else should comply with the standards I set myself. Let alone demand that those standards should be legislatively enforced.

If I did join the "pass a law" bandwagon, sprots bikes would be banned, and all bikes fitted with mandatory speed governors.And caught doing a wheelie, banned for life. Not to mention white hemets and hi-vis. And wouldn't you all moan and scream and complain.

So tell me then , why is that safety stops at what you think is enough?

If you wear all the gear, white helmet, hi-vis, ride a 'sensible' bike (not a sprots bike, by definition), have never had a speeding ticket on your bike, never done a wheelie etc, then maybe you are qualified to demand that others do as you do. If not, then not.

[Tank]

I was at university for seven years, I can debate,

Being at university for seven years doesn't mean you can debate - is more likely to indicate that your livers fucked.

:apint:

[madbikeboy]

So what happens if I pull out of Symonds st right after this marketing lab, in my helmet, gloves, leather jacket, armoured pants, full riding boots, and get hit by some careless driving?

Can we then make a point that UoA riders are exceptional in terms of riding gear and should be idolised for that?

Or can we only stereotype negative aspects?

That's the logic that doesn't make sense.

As I was standing on the side of the road today, I was watching the UoA bikers get on their bikes and ride off. Of all the UoA riders that I saw do this in the 45 or so minutes that I spent witnessing accident, helping scrape young guy off the road, and chatting with cop - guess how many UoA riders suited up within anything other than helmet and gloves. None. Not one. Go observe the same way I did. Cop made the point to me that none of the young'uns were wearing much safety gear.

I can stereotype something positive, the cagers girlfriend was a very good looking Asian. :)

[madbikeboy]

who the fuck are you to generalise this to the entire uoa riding crew?!?! in all fucking honesty, the moron who did himself in because of his idiocy isnt even on this site so THIS WHOLE FUCKING RANT IS POINTLESS!!

if i saw a white guy crash his bike, it doesn't give me the right to get onto a public forum and rant on about how white guys are idiots and they should pull their fucking head in.

if you hadnt been such a fucking moron and targeted a group of people unwarrantedly and in a "I AM GOD, HEED MY WARNING" type tone, the point you're trying to get across would be valid......well done ya dumass

hope the guy you rescued recovers quickly and onya for helpin out

This Dumbass has an IQ good enough for Mensa. You swear a lot. Have you got PMS?

[Patar]

I don't think people will ever stop whinging about what other people should and should not do. Some of you sound like the safety nazi's, it if you want to be completely safe you'd never leave the house (and even then...).

My point is, I don't give a rats arse what other people do anywhere, anytime or anyhow, and I don't understand why so many of you do.
I mean sure, if my friend was riding in shorts and t-shirt i'd suggest to him that he might want to get some proper gear, but I'm not going to go all 'hollier than thou' bullshit.

Life is all about risks, that's why I jump out of planes, off bridges, ride motorbikes and even sit under coconut trees, and you as an individual choose which ones to take, which ones to avoid and which ones to minimise.

If you don't like it, vote National, get ACC privatised, pay your own insurance premiums and go live in a bubble.

[Ragingrob]

As I was standing on the side of the road today, I was watching the UoA bikers get on their bikes and ride off. Of all the UoA riders that I saw do this in the 45 or so minutes that I spent witnessing accident, helping scrape young guy off the road, and chatting with cop - guess how many UoA riders suited up within anything other than helmet and gloves. None. Not one. Go observe the same way I did. Cop made the point to me that none of the young'uns were wearing much safety gear.

I can stereotype something positive, the cagers girlfriend was a very good looking Asian. :)

Lol well maybe the dude got a good last image before being hit then!

Ok well statistics do have their fault I guess depeding on what samples ya get. The few bikers I've seen today were in at least helmet, gloves and jacket. Bomma I saw in his full leathers and I've got all my gear.

Most of the guys I saw are in the Uni bike club, and they've got decent gear on. This is where perhaps the difference lies between bikers who ride for the riding, and bikers who ride for the transport.

Noticed a guy yesterday in shorts and hoody WITH a female pillion in casual clothes, on a 250. <_<

[chubby]

Ixion
To be honest... if anyone is trying to pass their views onto others its you. I don't want to sweep safety under the carpet, as you are trying to do and I, at least support discussing safety. Personally, I find your comments of how your attention to safety greater then mine not only very condesending but devoid of any facts or knowledge. You obviously take your safety seriously, you obviously have some experiance in this area. Why not try and be positive and build on comments that are made rather than try and down cry others attempts.

and as a last comment, from me, on your comments. Do you actually read what others say or do you just make up bits to support what opinions you want to get across.

[Griffin]

I don't think people will ever stop whinging about what other people should and should not do. Some of you sound like the safety nazi's, it if you want to be completely safe you'd never leave the house (and even then...).

My point is, I don't give a rats arse what other people do anywhere, anytime or anyhow, and I don't understand why so many of you do.


A couple of things cross my mind reading your post... but before I start - may I remind you that this is a public forum where people state their opinions and you are welcome to disagree. What you have taken as whinging, others will take as good advice.

1: Just out of curiosity - when you jump off bridges - do you wear the appropriate safety hear? When you jump out of planes - do you pass on the recommended safety items? Im sure you dont - so why isnt it a sensible suggestion that people wear reasonable safety gear when riding a machine that is capable of reaching high speeds and is invisible to most other road users?

2: Im pretty sure your "I dont give a rats arse about what other people do anytime etc" would very quickly change if that person was to cause injury or death to someone you cared about.

MBB - you sure know how to start a shit fight... :jerry:

[madbikeboy]

Lol well maybe the dude got a good last image before being hit then!

Ok well statistics do have their fault I guess depeding on what samples ya get. The few bikers I've seen today were in at least helmet, gloves and jacket. Bomma I saw in his full leathers and I've got all my gear.

Most of the guys I saw are in the Uni bike club, and they've got decent gear on. This is where perhaps the difference lies between bikers who ride for the riding, and bikers who ride for the transport.

Noticed a guy yesterday in shorts and hoody WITH a female pillion in casual clothes, on a 250. <_<

Okay, so the poor method to collect data and the relatively small sample size that was clearly not representative of the popluation was not entirely scientific. I'm more than willing to stand on the street and count, but you can see how I made that intellectual leap given the evidence before me.

It's up to each of us to decide our own paths - I wouldn't engage in relations with ugly women as some of you choose to do. I won't listen to rap, or drive drunk (or ride at all after drinking). I have enough risk in my life, which is why I try and minimise the risks that I can control. It doesn't take a PhD to see that taking some precautions lessens the risks that we as bikers face each day. Forgetting about the rants, logically we're at risk, it makes sense to reduce the risk where we can.

[bomma]

This Dumbass has an IQ good enough for Mensa. You swear a lot. Have you got PMS?

lol mensa should know by now that IQ isnt a very reliable measure of "Intelligence".....and nah i just like swearing...was gonna edit that post and add a few more swear words, but i couldn't be arsed....:woohoo:

and btw, there isn't much of a rebuttle in your post.....but at least your amazing "intelligence" (and i'm assuming that's why you mentioned MENSA, to promote yourself as a reverse-dumbass) managed to get you to change the subject.....well done.....dumass:yes:

[madbikeboy]

MBB - you sure know how to start a shit fight... :jerry:


The irony is that I started this thread with concern for the young'uns, and as the cop pointed out to me this morning, we bikers are massively over-represented in accidents that he attends.

I seem to have a gift at annoying people, just ask my ex-fiancee who still seems annoyed at me even though we haven't talked in 2 years. And I seem to make Bomma want to swear a lot and say dumass even more... :crybaby:

[xwhatsit]

MBB, I normally quite like what you have to say -- you come across as a common-sense kind of guy. But I would've thought somebody who spent so many years getting an education would see the problems with your argument.

That is, if I'm reading you right.

Let's clarify something -- you're in favour of passing laws to make `proper' riding gear compulsory?

[Subike]

Okay, I'm going to ignore the sarcasm and stupidity and answer thus:
I ride with:
- Decent well fitting lid, I have an HJC and a Shoei, both around $1000.
- Decent jacket, I use either AlpineStars (choice of a few), or I use a Technic which is weather proof
- Decent gloves, I like using my hands, AlpineStars
- Either AlpineStars pants, with armour, or Dianese textiles
- Decent boots with ankle bracing, and with titanium toe sliders
- Dianese back protector.

A one piece suit, or at least top and bottom textiles that zip together are a good idea.

The optional bits are the Titanium toe sliders. Sometimes I replace them with newer ones. I also ride with headlight on. And I ride defensively, keeping a defensive depth, making sure I plan where to go if "x" or "y" happens. I also listen attentively to experienced riders, again this is the living vicariously bit.


Who gives a damn about payouts from ACC - preventing the damage is the object lesson here.



Fuck en ell mate
That lot is worth more than my bike!
What gold mine do you live in??
And I take it your a student om a student allowance that MY taxes paid for or are still at home with well off parents...take you pick ( you need that for your gold mining mate)

If I was to wear all that gear I would feel like a fucking idiot!

My jacket is cow hide, cost me $50 ( fuck the plastic crap with armour)
My pants are cow hide, 3mm thick, owe me a 6 pack of beers( will slide for miles and still look ok)
My gloves are Nappa hide, have their own wet weather covers, cost? Had then that long I think I paid a tinny for them about 20 years ago!
My boots are std work steel caps, $150 from NZ saftey, will out last your fancy riding boots by miles. Dont leak, warm, comphy, and take wing mirrors off really well!
My Neck warmer is am arm cut out of a bargin bin jersy, pure wool. f
My Helmet? a 4 star HJC that I bought for $495. Guess that was a cheappy
As for fallin of ya bike being somthing that MUST happen to everyone
No thanks I like the seat... I gunna stay on it .Dont belive in thinking negative..
ATGATT....yeap, agree,
But its still personal choice as to what you wear.

[Patar]

A couple of things cross my mind reading your post... but before I start - may I remind you that this is a public forum where people state their opinions and you are welcome to disagree. What you have taken as whinging, others will take as good advice.

1: Just out of curiosity - when you jump off bridges - do you wear the appropriate safety hear? When you jump out of planes - do you pass on the recommended safety items? Im sure you dont - so why isnt it a sensible suggestion that people wear reasonable safety gear when riding a machine that is capable of reaching high speeds and is invisible to most other road users?

2: Im pretty sure your "I dont give a rats arse about what other people do anytime etc" would very quickly change if that person was to cause injury or death to someone you cared about.

MBB - you sure know how to start a shit fight... :jerry:

you missed my point pretty efficiently.
When I go bungy jumping/skydiving I will (obviously) have the bungy chord/parachute on me. After that anything additional I decide to wear is my own choice. Bungy jumping it could be argued that you should wear a helmet when being dipped into the water as there may be floating debris just below the surface of the water, again with skydiving could wear a helmet, overalls, goggles, some fmx armour in case I do hit the ground yada yada. You get the idea, there's an absolutely limitless supply of safety gear that could be worn, it's up to the individual to make the decision of what they feel is appropriate and then to accept the consequences of their decisions (this is a different rant that I could go on about).

With regards to not caring what other people do, is in regards to actions that affect themselves, not other people. If someone crashes their bike and is badly injured because of a lack of safety gear then I don't care, bad luck to them. If they crash and kill/injure someone else, then I still don't give a flying fuck what they were wearing but I will be ready to lynch them (assuming it was an at fault crash and no a puncture/oil spill etc.)

[madbikeboy]

Fuck en ell mate
That lot is worth more than my bike!
What gold mine do you live in??
And I take it your a student om a student allowance that MY taxes paid for or are still at home with well off parents...take you pick ( you need that for your gold mining mate)

If I was to wear all that gear I would feel like a fucking idiot!

My jacket is cow hide, cost me $50 ( fuck the plastic crap with armour)
My pants are cow hide, 3mm thick, owe me a 6 pack of beers( will slide for miles and still look ok)
My gloves are Nappa hide, have their own wet weather covers, cost? Had then that long I think I paid a tinny for them about 20 years ago!
My boots are std work steel caps, $150 from NZ saftey, will out last your fancy riding boots by miles. Dont leak, warm, comphy, and take wing mirrors off really well!
My Neck warmer is am arm cut out of a bargin bin jersy, pure wool. f
My Helmet? a 4 star HJC that I bought for $495. Guess that was a cheappy
As for fallin of ya bike being somthing that MUST happen to everyone
No thanks I like the seat... I gunna stay on it .Dont belive in thinking negative..
ATGATT....yeap, agree,
But its still personal choice as to what you wear.

Umm, actually I grew up without parents.

I've worked hard, I don't spend money on booze or stupid stuff. Plus I look for bargains. I've been riding for a while, and you tend to acculmulate stuff (including 20 years of PB magazine...).

[madbikeboy]

In an astounding turn of events...

PirateJaffa - is it true that you're - get this - the Safety Officer for the UoA riders club???

Does your safety message sound something like "go hard, if you break any bones, crawl to the hospital".

[Subike]

Umm, actually I grew up without parents.

I've worked hard, I don't spend money on booze or stupid stuff. Plus I look for bargains. I've been riding for a while, and you tend to acculmulate stuff (including 20 years of PB magazine...).

Fair nuff,
I assumed wrong of you, but there is a lot of crap gear out there being sold as ""the best availabile" "" fantastic new synthetics"" etc and it aint worth the money you pay for it.
The people who have been riding Horses, Bikes and flying open cockpit aeroplanes since Wilber Wright flew the first one all swore that good leather lined with sheepskin was better than anything else.
WTF have horses got to do with this, stand back and look. Its a steel horse you ride, the only difference is it dont know its own way home.

[RDJ]

I wear good gear all the time - i.e. every time I ride - and it is expensive. But as I get older I heal slower. Therefore - Shoei Multitec, Vanson Bones mesh jacket with armor, Icon Timax gloves, Sidi Goretex boots, Draggin' Jeans with armor. For colder weather / overseas touring, switch to Rev-It jacket and pants also with armor.

I do most of my riding to work, and total about 11,000 commuting kms a year - and about every second or third night I'm coming home in the dark.

A while back I was reading the UK Visordown threads on gear, and to cut a long story short, a thread developed on Hi-Viz gear being not such a good idea as drivers could be more inclined to cut us off, pull in front of us etc. on the basis that they would consider us more careful / scared / wary than average - and that Hi-Viz gear therefore increased our risk.

Since I have headlight on all the time, LEDs in the taillights, and my helmet and jacket and boots are reflectorised, and since the logic of the above argument while somewhat circular was also persuasive, I ditched my Hi-Viz sleeveless jacket for a month to see what would happen.

In short - I still wear ATGATT and maintain conspicuity with the lighting and reflector tape etc. but I no longer think that a Hi-Viz jacket makes me safer. In my own experience it encouraged a substantial minority of car drivers to worse behaviour.

This is of course anecdotal. (YMMV).

[bomma]

In an astounding turn of events...

PirateJaffa - is it true that you're - get this - the Safety Officer for the UoA riders club???

Does your safety message sound something like "go hard, if you break any bones, crawl to the hospital".

and the personal attacks continue......for someone who "has an IQ good enough for MENSA" you havnt said a whole lot of smart things starting from post 1......in all seriousness, i agree with you that a lot of idiots that ride to uni are twats and that they SHOULD wear better protective gear.....my point is that you should not have generalised that to the "Bikers" that go there.....we are an entirely different breed....and chances are 80% of the idiots riding to uni are not on KB so your attacks are, once again, misdirected and unbased......and i always thought Jafa was takin the piss....im the bloody secretary for the club and i never knew about it :shit: but then stevo never tells me anything <_<

p.s. fuck asshole dumass fuck titties (hadnt sworn at all this post so thought id chuck em in:Punk:):done:

[HungusMaximist]

I do say Mike, good on you for help the poor uni chap out.

Stink that he wasn't wearing proper gear to your exppectations but like with anything, you're gonna get people like that. Unless you're willing to let your actions to do the talking and starting forking out some cash and time to re-educate the youngins and start a petition of somekind.

For the time being just take in fact that people's attitude aren't gonna change in anytime soon or by your rants. However right you are, it's a pretty vicious circle you're digging here and like with most heated KB debates, alot of the arguments gets tedious and endless pretty quickly.

Just to get the facts straight, Auckland Uni SMC club and the Akl Uni bikers are seperate entities.

Good thread though, and again, awesome that you helped out, just don't get to dreamy about changing the world though...

[xwhatsit]

In an astounding turn of events...

PirateJaffa - is it true that you're - get this - the Safety Officer for the UoA riders club???

Does your safety message sound something like "go hard, if you break any bones, crawl to the hospital".
Still waiting to hear back about my question, but nevertheless I'll give my opinion here;

PirateJafa thinks you're in favour of passing laws which make `proper' riding gear compulsory. He's not arguing that we should all run around in hoodies and jandals. In fact, if you meet the guy, you'll understand why he's Safety Officer (what a grand name!), he's definitely an ATGATT chap and a damned careful rider to boot.

What he's arguing for is the right of us to choose to wear whatever we like (as long as we have a helmet of course I suppose). He's worried, because the same argument you're using (at least what it looks like what you're using) can easily be extended to ban us using the roads for anything except miniature 80kph-limited BMW C1s with seatbelts and all-round airbags. It's just the scale of the argument.

I don't like authorities thinking their job is to product idiots from their own stupidity. In fact, I quite like having the right to choose to wear my dressing gown down the end of the road and back on my bike -- as I did in the middle of the night a day ago.

Of course, I don't really believe you think the government should legislate that. I think what you really want to say is people are dumbarses for not wearing a bit of gear here and there. Unless I've profoundly misjudged your character in the past.

[bomma]

*snip* In fact, if you meet the guy, you'll understand why he's Safety Officer (what a grand name!), he's definitely an ATGATT chap and a damned careful rider to boot. *snip*

omg he is safety officer for realz :mellow::confused::shit::no::chase:

[madbikeboy]

Still waiting to hear back about my question, but nevertheless I'll give my opinion here;

PirateJafa thinks you're in favour of passing laws which make `proper' riding gear compulsory. He's not arguing that we should all run around in hoodies and jandals. In fact, if you meet the guy, you'll understand why he's Safety Officer (what a grand name!), he's definitely an ATGATT chap and a damned careful rider to boot.

What he's arguing for is the right of us to choose to wear whatever we like (as long as we have a helmet of course I suppose). He's worried, because the same argument you're using (at least what it looks like what you're using) can easily be extended to ban us using the roads for anything except miniature 80kph-limited BMW C1s with seatbelts and all-round airbags. It's just the scale of the argument.

I don't like authorities thinking their job is to product idiots from their own stupidity. In fact, I quite like having the right to choose to wear my dressing gown down the end of the road and back on my bike -- as I did in the middle of the night a day ago.

Of course, I don't really believe you think the government should legislate that. I think what you really want to say is people are dumbarses for not wearing a bit of gear here and there. Unless I've profoundly misjudged your character in the past.


What a well thought out post.

I agree with what you're saying, and I also believe in freedom to do stuff without legislation. The dilemma is that if a particular segment or activity is noted for having high risk, then if that community doesn't self regulate, the alternative is for legislation from people who have little understanding.

I am concerned that the end game is that people like me, who like freedom, will get rules imposed because of others who ride without gear or care. I don't want mandatory limiters or GPS on the bike, I don't want horsepower limits. But, if you look at what is happening in the UK around partial liability around accidents (contributary negligence), then it's not hard to extrapolate to our very own nanny state utopia.

[madbikeboy]

and the personal attacks continue......for someone who "has an IQ good enough for MENSA" you havnt said a whole lot of smart things starting from post 1......in all seriousness, i agree with you that a lot of idiots that ride to uni are twats and that they SHOULD wear better protective gear.....my point is that you should not have generalised that to the "Bikers" that go there.....we are an entirely different breed....and chances are 80% of the idiots riding to uni are not on KB so your attacks are, once again, misdirected and unbased......and i always thought Jafa was takin the piss....im the bloody secretary for the club and i never knew about it :shit: but then stevo never tells me anything <_<

p.s. fuck asshole dumass fuck titties (hadnt sworn at all this post so thought id chuck em in:Punk:):done:

You're the secretary? What are your notes like, is there shorthand for fuck, cunt, shit, etc?

Do you have to be a current student to be a member, or are those of us who got our quals in the 90's allowed in as well. I have not got any ulterior motives with uni-chickies...:love:

[KiwiKat]

Very valid topic.
An interesting debate / rendering of points of views / insults.
Points Content 35/50
Crap 50/50.
We've all been there, were no better, maybe we're still not and it's a shit job to have to clean up the mess. I'd love to be able to ride without safety gear. Reality sucks.

Keep arguing guys. There's no easy answer.

[bomma]

You're the secretary? What are your notes like, is there shorthand for fuck, cunt, shit, etc?

Do you have to be a current student to be a member, or are those of us who got our quals in the 90's allowed in as well. I have not got any ulterior motives with uni-chickies...:love:

lol so no straight answers huh?? guess when confronted your mouth stops writing cheques.....and nah dont have to be a uni student to be a member, should join mate, will only cost ya a gold coin :niceone:

[madbikeboy]

lol so no straight answers huh?? guess when confronted your mouth stops writing cheques.....and nah dont have to be a uni student to be a member, should join mate, will only cost ya a gold coin :niceone:

If you met me in meatspace you'd understand that's not true, I just hate wasting cyber-ink. Tell you what, next ride that you organise, flick me a PM and I'll ride with you all. And then we can debate the merits of freedom of choice all you want.

[vifferman]

What a strange thread. :confused:
I don't have anything new to contribute, but I'd just like to say I applaud the intent and content of MBB's original post, and his actions. Well done, Sir!
If you ride with inadequate gear, you're a dickhead. And I agree that it's a shame that so may bikers do, and that our ACC premiums are so high (although it could be argued that much/most of that is a result of other driver's faults, not how much safety gear we choose to wear.)

However (but!) I am opposed to the creeping spread of Rules'n'Regulations To Protect Us From Ourselves, and a BIG fan of personal responsibility. Down with the bureaucrats. They'll be in the second wave of people up against the wall, probably just before 'agents' of all kinds. (Except secret agents, of course. We need more derring do.)

If you choose to risk not wearing all the gear, that's your problem. WHile I usually wear all the gear (about $2-$3k worth), sometimes I choose not to, for short trips or whatever. Several times while doing so, I have had an incident. So fucking what. None of those times was it my fault the incident occured, but the scars are my fault, and I accept responsibility for them, regardless of who caused me to end up on the road. It's my life, and I have some rights to live it as I choose, as long as it doesn't adversely affect others. In my case, none of my injuries caused significant boosting of ACC expenditure, as I eschew help unless REALLY needed. I have had others that did: one was when I was wearing all the safety gear I could have, and needed physio (fat waste of money that was) for my leg. Short of a suit of padded metal armour, nothing would have made a difference. The other accident was at home, in the safety of my gargre. Despite many, many years of using very dangerous tools, riding bikes, being a hoon, and suffering very little for it, that was probably my worst accident in some ways, and was caused by my socks.

So there you go.

Socks should be banned.


Dunno what the fuck my post was about, but I thought I'd join in anyway.

[ital916]

Our uni club the SMC is quite heavy on gear and the majority of guys in the club wear ATGATT.


:laugh::laugh::laugh:.......:killingme:killingme

[ital916]

Hell I've only got 20% mobility in my left arm, due to a bike crash.


A crash that occured on a 250, after which you logically decided it would be better to upgrade you bike cc wise to a 400 as it would be easier to ride. And you complain about others logic. Not pickin on ya jaf.

[Ragingrob]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:.......:killingme:killingme

Oh? At the chiller I believe pretty much everyone has helmet jacket and gloves at the least.

[ital916]

who the fuck are you to generalise this to the entire uoa riding crew?!?! in all fucking honesty, the moron who did himself in because of his idiocy isnt even on this site so THIS WHOLE FUCKING RANT IS POINTLESS!!

if i saw a white guy crash his bike, it doesn't give me the right to get onto a public forum and rant on about how white guys are idiots and they should pull their fucking head in.

if you hadnt been such a fucking moron and targeted a group of people unwarrantedly and in a "I AM GOD, HEED MY WARNING" type tone, the point you're trying to get across would be valid......well done ya dumass

hope the guy you rescued recovers quickly and onya for helpin out

Are we debating safety gear usage, freedom of choice or sterotypes and social groupings. No point in arguing social sterotyes, as MBB has just blanketed the general area of incident. Why get so worked up. There is an UoA riding crew...since when was there a riding crew nish. We shouldbe the first to admit 90% of the UoA riders are twat, fair enough 90% only ride for commuting but still.

As for safety gear usage, I guess in a totalitarian society even would be made to wear full gear but alas that is the joy and sometimes the donside of life MBB, people can choose. Sometimes they make the wrong choice, and it is part of life for us to deal with it. I you make gear madatory there will be a baclash, if you make it fully optional there will be a backlash, alas we might actually be at a point where we are in semi equilibrium. This argument can go forever..lets all have a group hug.....*painkillers are good*

[ital916]

In an astounding turn of events...

PirateJaffa - is it true that you're - get this - the Safety Officer for the UoA riders club???

Does your safety message sound something like "go hard, if you break any bones, crawl to the hospital".

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

You know MBB...you not bad essay,

[ital916]

and the personal attacks continue......for someone who "has an IQ good enough for MENSA" you havnt said a whole lot of smart things starting from post 1......in all seriousness, i agree with you that a lot of idiots that ride to uni are twats and that they SHOULD wear better protective gear.....my point is that you should not have generalised that to the "Bikers" that go there.....we are an entirely different breed....and chances are 80% of the idiots riding to uni are not on KB so your attacks are, once again, misdirected and unbased......and i always thought Jafa was takin the piss....im the bloody secretary for the club and i never knew about it :shit: but then stevo never tells me anything <_<

p.s. fuck asshole dumass fuck titties (hadnt sworn at all this post so thought id chuck em in:Punk:):done:

Personal attacks is the clubs specialty, they are like the ninja warriors of kb.

[ital916]

If you met me in meatspace you'd understand that's not true, I just hate wasting cyber-ink. Tell you what, next ride that you organise, flick me a PM and I'll ride with you all. And then we can debate the merits of freedom of choice all you want.

Count me in. :scooter: i'll be tec...i like being tec.

[madbikeboy]

Count me in. :scooter: i'll be tec...i like being tec.

I'm not sure I can keep with you all, I might be the tail end charlie by default.

When's the next ride?

[madbikeboy]

Personal attacks is the clubs specialty, they are like the ninja warriors of kb.

How many in the club, and do y'all ride 250's?

[ital916]

How many in the club, and do y'all ride 250's?

Hmm a few..well technically on our official list like two hundred or something but aorund 20 to thirty fully active members. I haven't gone on a club ride in a while, just doin my own thing at the mo. Email squiggles, he will out you on the mailing list or just look in the forum, I warn you though, watch where you step in the forum. Not too tidy from all the shit talking.:laugh:

[ital916]

How many in the club, and do y'all ride 250's?

Na the majority ride large bikes. cbr929, cbr1000, tl1000 three vfr 400s, rs250, three hornet 900s, zzr250, bandit 250s, gn250s, cbr600, gsr600, er6ns etc

[bomma]

If you met me in meatspace you'd understand that's not true, I just hate wasting cyber-ink. Tell you what, next ride that you organise, flick me a PM and I'll ride with you all. And then we can debate the merits of freedom of choice all you want.

sweet mate will do, more the merrier :niceone: think there's a club ride goin round the coro this sat (i wont be making any rides for a lil wile, until exams finish)


Are we debating safety gear usage, freedom of choice or sterotypes and social groupings. No point in arguing social sterotyes, as MBB has just blanketed the general area of incident. Why get so worked up. There is an UoA riding crew...since when was there a riding crew nish. We shouldbe the first to admit 90% of the UoA riders are twat, fair enough 90% only ride for commuting but still.

errr i thought i had made it clear that my problem wasnt with the message of safety but the fact this one indivdual's actions (or lack of) was generalised to all of us at the uni.....:mellow: may have gone over some people's heads i guess....maybe i should be more clear:confused:

and there is a "riding crew", we the ones who go "riding" every other weekend and are enthused by the ride and dont just use it for the cheap petrol to commute......errr is that clear enuff??:mellow: and your percentage stat resmebles mine from my earlier post.....i think......


Personal attacks is the clubs specialty, they are like the ninja warriors of kb.

errrr......no comment?? :confused: im not too sure what you mean by that but ummm im not really too clear on most of your posts so i guess it's just normal......:doh:

[Ragingrob]

Don't you ride a thou MBB? Well if ya do come along for a ride, hopefully your mind will be changed about UoA bikers in terms of gear :2thumbsup

As Drider and I have said, the majority of "bikers" (people who ride a 2-wheeler to Uni) are doing it for the cheap commute, these are the people who aren't on KB, aren't really interested in riding as a lifestyle, and aren't interested in gear that they may deem as uncool and unnecessary.

The others form the Auck Uni SMC (Scoot an Moto club) of which the active members ride to live and live to ride. We are the ones on KB, keen on bikes, keen on wearing cool leathers, and also keen to making changes to the shocking parking along Symonds st.

[madbikeboy]

Yeah, I've got a couple, GSXR1000, and old school CBX1000. I think the Gixer (Scoot) is the choice for the Coro loop.

Check out the albums in my profile, I think you can see both.

[Squiggles]

I'm in agreeance with most of what has been said by the likes of ixion, jafa, vifferman summed it up quite nicely. I'll admit to riding to uni somedays in jeans etc, others in full leathers,. Safety is very subjective when it comes to biking.
Madbikeboy, you're welcome on any club rides, should come join us at one of the chillers too on friday.

Ah, and to introduce myself, i am president of said SMC club, Nish is a shit secretary, and jafa is the official tow truck driver. :lol:

[PirateJafa]

Oh? At the chiller I believe pretty much everyone has helmet jacket and gloves at the least.

Well some of us do have open-face helmets. :Pokey:


A crash that occured on a 250, after which you logically decided it would be better to upgrade you bike cc wise to a 400 as it would be easier to ride. And you complain about others logic. Not pickin on ya jaf.

You forgot about the 1978, 350cc ex-racer power-valve-less two-stroke. :rolleyes:


How many in the club, and do y'all ride 250's?

Not actually many 250s in the club - mostly larger.


In an astounding turn of events...

PirateJaffa - is it true that you're - get this - the Safety Officer for the UoA riders club???

Does your safety message sound something like "go hard, if you break any bones, crawl to the hospital".

Pretty much.

Being the official SMC Towtruck Owner/Operator my motto is "go hard, if you break any bones, call David and he'll drive you to the hospital". A motto which I've worked to myself (and missed out on my one chance to get a ride in a waaambulance by doing so. Dangit!)

Oh and petrol money is involved somewhere. Or liquor or summink. The Thrashmobile doesn't run on love.

Oh and if you come on a ride (which I'd recommend you do - we're actually a courteous and well-behaved bunch once you drag us out from behind our keyboards) you'd best bring the CBX. I've always wanted to see one in the flesh. :niceone:

Or failing that, even just drop by a Friday Chiller. Cheap booze and good company.

[Squiggles]

Well some of us do have open-face helmets. :Pokey:
And somewhat unstable bikes




You forgot about the 1978, 350cc ex-racer power-valve-less two-stroke. :rolleyes:


Run-in of said 350cc is going well. However, several wheel lofting moments have occured due to the insane clutch and powerband, and it has a somewhat scary tendancy to tank slapper :lol:



Not actually many 250s in the club - mostly larger.


Nah, my fleet makes up for that

[PirateJafa]

Run-in of said 350cc is going well. However, several wheel lofting moments have occured due to the insane clutch and powerband, and it has a somewhat scary tendancy to tank slapper :lol:

Don't worry mate, that's why I put you down as a named rider on the insurance policy.

That said, if I see her on Police 10-7 I'm going to kick your arse.


And somewhat unstable bikes

Now now, let us have none of this logic here. Only emotion and smacktalk.

[davebullet]

I can't be bothered reading the mud-slinging above...

MBB,

Out of interest, did the cops estimate how fast the 250 bandit rider was traveling? Was it wet up there today? I don't know Auckland, but outside UoA - is it deemed a school? (30Km/h limit applying - can't recall when - it was 17 years ago I got my learners....). Sure the car did a u-turn and might be 100% wrong - but did the rider do everything 100% safe?

The ultimate protection is defensive riding that tries to avoid the accident.

Cheers,
Dave.

[Squiggles]

Nah, no special speed limits, double yellow 4 lane road

[davebullet]

Did it happen in the left or right lane? I myself prefer to travel in the right lane in a dual lane road in a built up area for that reason to increase my visibility. (car doors opening, pedestrians, u-turns)

[madbikeboy]

I can't be bothered reading the mud-slinging above...

MBB,

Out of interest, did the cops estimate how fast the 250 bandit rider was traveling? Was it wet up there today? I don't know Auckland, but outside UoA - is it deemed a school? (30Km/h limit applying - can't recall when - it was 17 years ago I got my learners....). Sure the car did a u-turn and might be 100% wrong - but did the rider do everything 100% safe?

The ultimate protection is defensive riding that tries to avoid the accident.

Cheers,
Dave.

Symonds St and Parnell road are both 50kph, both share numpty pedestrians that walk out without looking. Unless I can see a fair distance with a good safety margin, I slow down.

To answer your question - Symonds isn't designated as a school zone. I watched the rider before and as it happened. Answer, about 55kph, which was too fast given the conditions and the number of peds and cars... Rider was placed in the right lane, good road position, but too much going on to identify the risk presented by that one car doing a uturn. I spotted the cager as I drove past, and I knew about 5 seconds before what was going to happen - but I'm an old cynical bastard expecting dumb shit to happen. Young rider, not enough experience, too much going on.

[HungusMaximist]

MBB, trying to sneer you way into the AU SMC club now aye, so you can fling some more of your wank talk? :msn-wink:


Just poking fun, we'll catch you round..

[Oscar]

Well some of us do have open-face helmets. :Pokey:





The last time I wore an open faced helmet on the road, I left my front teeth lodged in the bonnet of a Vauxhall Viva. I also obtained a great scar on my upper lip and a broken jaw. Speed at impact would have been 40km/h at most. It could have been much worse, I faceplanted a relatively benign and flat area.

Buy a Flip Up Helmet - it will do anything your Open Face will, and your face will love you for it...

[bomma]

Ah, and to introduce myself, i am president of said SMC club, Nish is a shit secretary, and jafa is the official tow truck driver. :lol:

you can be soo mean sometimes :cry: makes me wonder why i even joined this club!!! :oi-grr:


The last time I wore an open faced helmet on the road, I left my front teeth lodged in the bonnet of a Vauxhall Viva. I also obtained a great scar on my upper lip and a broken jaw. Speed at impact would have been 40km/h at most. It could have been much worse, I faceplanted a relatively benign and flat area.

Buy a Flip Up Helmet - it will do anything your Open Face will, and your face will love you for it...

try telling dushy that *let world war 2 begin* :shifty:

[dipshit]

It's simple. If you are one of those peole who want the "freedom" to do as you please, then you should have to sign an opt-out clause where you get left on the side of the road for the dogs, cats and rats to deal with. If you don't want that then get real!

What I've noticed quite regularly around here - is that it is the people who cry the loudest about the "nanny state" are also the ones that expect ACC the most... with things like "its a no-fault system"... or "what do you think I pay my ACC levies for"

The double standards and hypocrisy around here is quite amazing.

[portokiwi]

:Offtopic: Whats the parking like on ANZAC av?

[Oscar]

try telling dushy that *let world war 2 begin* :shifty:

I'm not telling anyone anything.

I'm sharing my experience in the hope that one person will benefit from it.
Maybe my stupidity is a warning to others, maybe not.

Perhaps your friend dushy is not pretty enough to worry about his looks....

[madbikeboy]

MBB, trying to sneer you way into the AU SMC club now aye, so you can fling some more of your wank talk? :msn-wink:


Just poking fun, we'll catch you round..

Well, I am a past student, and I might learn some stuff about halo's of invincibility, would seem rude not to hang with you all sometime...

[madbikeboy]

The last time I wore an open faced helmet on the road, I left my front teeth lodged in the bonnet of a Vauxhall Viva. I also obtained a great scar on my upper lip and a broken jaw. Speed at impact would have been 40km/h at most. It could have been much worse, I faceplanted a relatively benign and flat area.

Buy a Flip Up Helmet - it will do anything your Open Face will, and your face will love you for it...

Umm, I'm going to get abused for this I'm sure, but I wouldn't ride a scooter without a full faced lid. Aside from hitting the deck and sliding to a halt on your face, there is also the very real danger from stones thrown up from trucks. I have replaced a couple of visors (which are way thinker than any sunnies you've ever seen) from stones hitting at motorway speeds.

Buy a full face, fixed helmet... I know, I know ATGATT preaching...

[Oscar]

Umm, I'm going to get abused for this I'm sure, but I wouldn't ride a scooter without a full faced lid. Aside from hitting the deck and sliding to a halt on your face, there is also the very real danger from stones thrown up from trucks. I have replaced a couple of visors (which are way thinker than any sunnies you've ever seen) from stones hitting at motorway speeds.

Buy a full face, fixed helmet... I know, I know ATGATT preaching...

I was just saying to someone, on the day I crashed, I can clearly remember thinking how cool I looked with my Aviator Sunglasses and Bell Open Face.

That was twenty odd years ago and I still have a beard/mo to cover the scar.

I've even taken to wearing a full face offroad (it's not like I'm getting any prettier...)

[ital916]

Oh deary me, here comes the smc crusade and the open face debate. Yes I have an open face helmet but you have to have a look at the whol picture, I also have a full face helmet, armoured cordura pants, draggin jeans, armoured riding boots, winter gloves, leather race gloves, a back protector, two different riding jackets, one sports orientated and one one winter orientated and a high vis vest. Depending on day, distance and what I will be doing off the bike I mix and match to suit. In fact most of the smc pales in what I ride in...to quote what a friend said "drider..you wear the most fucking gear of any biker I've ever seen".

So don't go throwing the attgatt argument at me. On some days I choose to wear an open face with goggle *which are purpose built for that helmet and have been tested against a variety of objects haha* that is my choice. The difference being I have weighed up the odds and made a calculated decision.

[Oscar]

Oh deary me, here comes the smc crusade and the open face debate. Yes I have an open face helmet but you have to have a look at the whol picture, I also have a full face helmet, armoured cordura pants, draggin jeans, armoured riding boots, winter gloves, leather race gloves, a back protector, two different riding jackets, one sports orientated and one one winter orientated and a high vis vest. Depending on day, distance and what I will be doing off the bike I mix and match to suit. In fact most of the smc pales in what I ride in...to quote what a friend said "drider..you wear the most fucking gear of any biker I've ever seen".

So don't go throwing the attgatt argument at me. On some days I choose to wear an open face with goggle *which are purpose built for that helmet and have been tested against a variety of objects haha* that is my choice. The difference being I have weighed up the odds and made a calculated decision.

I doubt that this can be called a debate, as generally debates involve a sharing of ideas and experiences and you appear to have made up your mind.

I was offering advice based on experience gained the hard way, at about your age (assuming that your username contains your birth date).

Your response tends to suggest that you are a least as stupid and pigheaded as I was at your age, so I won't bother to argue with you, aside from saying I hope your education is not as painful as mine.

[ital916]

I doubt that this can be called a debate, as generally debates involve a sharing of ideas and experiences and you appear to have made up your mind.

I was offering advice based on experience gained the hard way, at about your age (assuming that your username contains your birth date).

Your response tends to suggest that you are a least as stupid and pigheaded as I was at your age, so I won't bother to argue with you, aside from saying I hope your education is not as painful as mine.

Haha, I'm trying not to be too pigheaded in my youth.

[madbikeboy]

Haha, I'm trying not to be too pigheaded in my youth.

It's a biological predisposition - we males need to work things out for ourselves and learn the hard (and painful) way. Seriously, I've lost friends; this sport that we're all addicted to can have serious consequences, and I'm amazed I've lived this long.

In a perfect world, we'd ban cars and turn all streets into race tracks - my aura of invincibility would be more than an aura, and I'd actually be able to dance well enough to pick up chicks. But, I can't, it isn't, and the streets only ever closed in Monaco.

:doctor:

[madbikeboy]

I doubt that this can be called a debate, as generally debates involve a sharing of ideas and experiences and you appear to have made up your mind.

I was offering advice based on experience gained the hard way, at about your age (assuming that your username contains your birth date).

Your response tends to suggest that you are a least as stupid and pigheaded as I was at your age, so I won't bother to argue with you, aside from saying I hope your education is not as painful as mine.

Do your bones ache? Mine do. During winter, I can recall ever bone that I've broken, not from memory since the concussions have reduced that, but instead from the bits of me that ache or don't work so well anymore. I hate dislocations and compund fractures the most. I'm getting arthirtis in my fingers (broken each and every one), and I'm 35.

[Tank]

I'm getting arthirtis in my fingers (broken each and every one), and I'm 35.

Wank slower.




:Playnice:

[Ixion]

Run-in of said 350cc is going well. However, several wheel lofting moments have occured due to the insane clutch and powerband, and it has a somewhat scary tendancy to tank slapper :lol:





Yeah, they do that. That too. Is why we luvs them so :love:



a friend said "drider..you wear the most fucking gear of any biker I've ever seen".



Yeah. He does an all. At Kaiaua I thought there was an extra person at the table, it was just all his gear occupying a chair! Sometimes y'wonder (given that he's a smallish bloke) whether he's actually in there at all, or if his gear has gone for a ride on its own.

[Oscar]

Do your bones ache? Mine do. During winter, I can recall ever bone that I've broken, not from memory since the concussions have reduced that, but instead from the bits of me that ache or don't work so well anymore. I hate dislocations and compund fractures the most. I'm getting arthirtis in my fingers (broken each and every one), and I'm 35.

Unfortunately, in my yoof, I combined off road motorcycles and cricket.
All of my fingers were busted at least once, along with various other bones.

Yep, things ache, and I limp in cold weather.

Still, it was fun at the time...:Punk:

[madbikeboy]

Insane power of a 350?

I'm at a lost for words. :jerry::jerry::jerry:

[madbikeboy]

Unfortunately, in my yoof, I combined off road motorcycles and cricket.
All of my fingers were busted at least once, along with various other bones.

Yep, things ache, and I limp in cold weather.

Still, it was fun at the time...:Punk:

Yeah, but as I grow older, and end up in more pain, I find myself questioning the fun I had at the time. Except this one time, at Uni, I was in Wellington and I met these two chicks, and after drinking with them all night, they go into the kitchen to make me coffee, and they're in there for like 20 minutes. Then they come out, and the kitchen must have been really warm, because they came out naked. On the hotter of the two chicks was wearing a strap on, and the two of them gave me a really interesting show. And then...

I miss being young... Sigh.

[xwhatsit]

Insane power of a 350?

I'm at a lost for words. :jerry::jerry::jerry:
It's one of these. At least, this is the way I think he should re-do the bodywork if it falls off its stand.

<img src="http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5461/74rd350xb7.jpg" />

[madbikeboy]

It's one of these. At least, this is the way I think he should re-do the bodywork if it falls off its stand.



Now that is a gorgeous piece of kit. I know why it's scary fast - it has a single pot caliper on the front, my mountain bike has more stopping power. :shit:

[MarkH]

The last time I wore an open faced helmet on the road, I left my front teeth lodged in the bonnet of a Vauxhall Viva. I also obtained a great scar on my upper lip and a broken jaw. Speed at impact would have been 40km/h at most. It could have been much worse, I faceplanted a relatively benign and flat area.

I think every rider is entitled to make their own decision as to what level of gear they need to wear.

However, things that make me cringe are riders with:
an open face helmet (exposed jaw)
shorts (bare legs)
t-shirt (bare arms)
sneakers or worse (jandals - *shudder*)
bare hands (yikes)

My main helmet is a flip face Nolon N103 in plain white - decent quality helmet with high visibility. I always wear gloves, boots, leather jacket and currently Draggin' Jeans (I will buy some kind of armoured pants for next winter). I don't consider what I wear to be overkill - in fact I think I have got myself the bare minimum (I have no hard armour in legs or back).

I agree with the original post - the guys not wearing the minimum gear should wake up and gear up! Those that ignore the advice and get themselves some painful road rash - well you've been told, you made your decision, you have to live with it.

[madbikeboy]

I think every rider is entitled to make their own decision as to what level of gear they need to wear.

However, things that make me cringe are riders with:
an open face helmet (exposed jaw)
shorts (bare legs)
t-shirt (bare arms)
sneakers or worse (jandals - *shudder*)
bare hands (yikes)

My main helmet is a flip face Nolon N103 in plain white - decent quality helmet with high visibility. I always wear gloves, boots, leather jacket and currently Draggin' Jeans (I will buy some kind of armoured pants for next winter). I don't consider what I wear to be overkill - in fact I think I have got myself the bare minimum (I have no hard armour in legs or back).

I agree with the original post - the guys not wearing the minimum gear should wake up and gear up! Those that ignore the advice and get themselves some painful road rash - well you've been told, you made your decision, you have to live with it.

Good post, the one thing that I would respectfully add is that a back protector, possibly the cheapest safety device you can buy (under $100) is something that I wouldn't ride without. Broken backs are a really big deal, my partner broke hers in four places, she still does daily exercises for the rehab (hers was a skiing accident).

[R-Soul]

Your own safety. By all means. But you have no right to impose your own opinions (based on what you feel is appropriate for you ) on others.

I am probably more concerned about my own safety than any of you of yours. I don't like getting hurt. And I take such steps as I deem appropriate to keep me safe.

I do not demand that anyone else should comply with the standards I set myself. Let alone demand that those standards should be legislatively enforced.



Jeez bomma, you are not really looking for a good read are you You are just lloking for an argument. The man saw an accident, and was shook up from it. We all know that talking about it and seeing it are two very different things. And when it happens, it happens fast, and it makes you doubt your own abilty to handle the same situation. That is human nature. Mad biker is obviously a nice guy who does care about the health of others, and his points on "learning vicariously" are well made.

Too many kids - and especially Uni students who dont have dosh for the protective gear (or at least have higher priorities like girls and booze) - are too gung ho about it. Mad biker is trying to explain to these guys why it should be prioritised RIGHT UP THERE. He uis not setting or imposing standards for safety, he is telling them that when the cage appears over your screen as big as a death sentence, then the chicks and booze mean NOTHING.

Youth makes you feel indestructible. Everyone knows that. Youths are not indestructible. Everyone knows that too - except the youths. Thats great if you set your own standards. If you don't give a rats ass about other's safety - that is great too. But then dont get in the way of trying to get the message across to others with your obnoxious ranting. FFS get a life...

[motorbyclist]

holy crap, 40 posts per page, and i've only just finished page one of 4

i'm a quarter way in and already seen the thread take the normal course, had frustration at only being able to rep so often for logical arguments, given up and used red rep instead, and as per expected we're already arguing over how pointless the thread is

[motorbyclist]

right, is it my turn now?


When's the next ride?

in about 9 hours - BP autobahn at 930 is your best bet


right, now watch carefully kids...

Yeah, I wear ATGATT, and expensive stuff at that, and I think legislation should be put in place to ensure all riders are as well dressed as I am, so that they don't get as hurt, thus saving injury/costs

Yeah, I've got a GSXR1000,

well lets put a different spin on your argument here:


Yeah, I ride a 400cc 53HP bike, and it's a fucking sweet one at that, and I think legislation should be put in place to ensure all riders are as underpowered as I am, so that they don't get as hurt, thus saving injury/costs

tell me exactly how our two arguments differ (qualitatively)


the ONLY difference in our arguments, is one can actually legislate (draw a line) as to a power output, as opposed to non standardized safety standards, AND power output has little to do with being rear ended/cut off/run over

BUT what they have in common is that:

BOTH arguments fall prey to the fact that a safety standard is entirely subjective

ie, the govt could decide that 130cc or 20HP is the maximum allowable "safe" power output for a motorcycle. they drew a line, and it sucks.
ie, they could decide that you must have full gear to XYZ certification, and impose that all importers prove their gear meets this certification, and get all officers to check all riders are wearing such certified gear.... and you can see where this unenforcable rule becomes an issue (and fucking expensive for the new rider if they have to spend $3000+ on approved gear)
ie, we may be enforced to wear bubblewrap suits, have big bouncy bars and rollcages (and saftey belts) around our bikes etc etc

BOTH arguments need not account for dangerous riding (laws already cover that)

BOTH arguments have an issue of legislators having to ask "how safe is safe"?

ie, a motorcycle is not safe. if we were concerned about 100% safety, we would ban them - and there are people out there who would, or at the very least waive ACC cover


so, when (if) you think about it, legislating that we must all adhere to a safety standard is ONLY good if the safety standard is our own minimum

so, assuming the beurocrats down in wellington fit my own personal stereotype of boring accountants/lawyers, the new legal minimum safety standard will be that of a car, with 9 airbags and 5 point harnesses, remotely governed to the applicable speed limit.

it may not happen overnight, but give it 20 years and see what happens.... i hear honda has finally given up manufacturing two strokes this year due to ever tightening emissions regulations...

which seems to be what MMB doesn't understand...

and even better, this wont be starting the wedge, it'll be kicking it further in. the wedge started with the helmets - which is why in the USA they have the freedom to choose and make a big fuss when they lose it

(licences, speed limits, WOFs, etc etc keep OTHER people safe)



SO lets try another viable solution to this issue: private health insurance, which would make riding like a fuckwit so expensive many of us would have to quit - even the sensible commuters among us

it works for the states dunnit? (sarcasm)

or would people just ride uninsured and become a burden on society anyway?


what's that? still getting penalized for the stupidity of others?



life isn't fair.



get used to it.


if we want the freedom to choose to ride, we must also have the freedom to choose how we ride

[madbikeboy]

How dare you fucking misquote me to bang on about your own misguided bullshit.

AND YOU RED BLING ME.

You are a fool, a cunt, and you haven't read what I wrote, nor the intent.

Go back to your village, your locals are missing their idiot. Failing that, stick your head up your ass. Oh, too late, it already is.

[FROSTY]

Fundamentally flawed huh? I think the reasoning that you're applying is due to living most of your formative years under the nanny state that is Helen. Keep it on point - riding without the correct gear is stupid. End of sentence.
Dude --You think thats bad you shoulda seen what I saw on the gold coast. Young nubile women with just scanty bikinis a slight wind chill and--ohh er what was I saying --ohh yea um--gold coast not much protective gear worn thazz right.

[RDJ]

and today in minimally related news, there was an article about lots of UK tourists going to be fined large numbers of euros for driving their cages in France without having a reflective vest handy...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1034564/British-motorists-face-100-fine-failing-wear-fluorescent-vests-driving-France.html

it's a strange slippery slope....

(just trying to redirect the thread to a bit more sweetness and light or failing that, not quite so personal attacks...)

[FROSTY]

An idea -tossed out there to see what response.
On the way to the bank an experienced rider rides with dress pants and work boots on.
As a result finds themselves riding exceptionally carefully.
So in this case what is more dangerous the way they dress/ ride or perhaps a guy in full leathers with a feeling of invincibility?

Just a thought there

Mind you Im also an advocvate of replacing all air bags with spring loaded stilletto knives --imagine how carefully cagers would drive

[RDJ]

with that footwear

[Mully]

Mind you Im also an advocvate of replacing all air bags with spring loaded stilletto knives --imagine how carefully cagers would drive

*makes mental note not to buy future cage from Frosty if its fitted with airbags*

[RDJ]

An idea -tossed out there to see what response.
On the way to the bank an experienced rider rides with dress pants and work boots on.
As a result finds themselves riding exceptionally carefully.
So in this case what is more dangerous the way they dress/ ride or perhaps a guy in full leathers with a feeling of invincibility?
Just a thought there

Agree with you. "Suiting Up" does encourage a feeling of protection... which may in turn encourage greater risk-taking. But on balance, since we can crash and burn even when we ride ultra-carefully thanks to cars / diesel / Acts of random Deities (or should that be random Acts of Deities), I'll still take the protection.

[twinkle]

I saw a guy going 40-50km down symonds street on a skateboard last wednesday :Punk:
I suppose he just jumps off to stop...:eek:

[RDJ]

He could just reverse the flux capacitor...

[Kickaha]

which is why in the USA they have the freedom to choose and make a big fuss when they lose it


They don't have the freedom to choose, only 4 states dont have any helmet laws

In 20 States they are compulsory and the rest there are age restrictions

They're also bringing in other stuff for those that choose not to wear one

The new law mandates that any motorcyclist who chooses to ride without a helmet must show proof of health insurance when registering a motorcycle. A rider who complies can obtain a sticker that will enable him to legally ride without a helmet in the state. Should that riders health insurance lapse, his license would be suspended for 90 days, or until he can prove he's obtained suitable coverage.

http://usff.com/hldl/hlstatutes/mapolinks.html

[James Deuce]

Blah, blah, blah.

Seriously, what someone wears on their own motorcycle is no one else's business except their own. Apart from the helmet thing.

I reserve the right to be as stupid as the average student whenever I feel like it.

On the one hand motorcyclists bitch about the Nanny State, on the other the give it plenty of reason to behave like a Nana, on another hand they refuse to man up when they're in the wrong and have a bit of extra taxation to pay (and maybe even some "Push Play" time), and on yet another hand feel perfectly justified in vandalising someone else's property when they put themselves in a position to be at risk from another road user and then expect other road users to happily accept the unexpected.

Yes, that's four hands.

But that's because you're all two-faced hypocritical wankers who should be burnt.

Hmmpf.

[James Deuce]

it may not happen overnight, but give it 20 years and see what happens.... i hear honda has finally given up manufacturing two strokes this year due to ever tightening emissions regulations...



Honda didn't want to build them in the first place. They ONLY reason they raced two strokes in GPs was because they couldn't get the NR500 to work, and they wasted an entire race bike development cycle on a cul de sac. Honda have always tried to get rid of two strokes and have succeeded at the highest level and will probably be the sole engine provider for MotoGP 600. They probably helped draft the emissions standards with an eye on resurrecting the basic premise of the NXR750 engine design.

[terbang]

Jeez look at all of this. The starter of this thread genuinely wanted to pass a message on to new riders about wearing the right gear. Some good advice, though as it appears, his choice of words didn´t suit all. But I still reckon his intent was genuine after witnessing a stressful event. So give him a break. FWIW I reckon that the best safety device that any motorcyclist can have, resides between their ears. And it doesn't cost that much either. The device can, among many other useful functions, also be used when purchasing riding gear.

[James Deuce]

It is indeed between your ears and sanctimonious lecturing never created any converts to any cause.

[motorbyclist]

How dare you fucking misquote me to bang on about your own misguided bullshit.

misquoted? i prefer the term "paraphrased":bleh:


you're still not explaining why we're all wrong

[xwhatsit]

with that footwear
Gear change on the right. She's wearing a boot on that foot.

[madbikeboy]

Honda didn't want to build them in the first place. They ONLY reason they raced two strokes in GPs was because they couldn't get the NR500 to work, and they wasted an entire race bike development cycle on a cul de sac. Honda have always tried to get rid of two strokes and have succeeded at the highest level and will probably be the sole engine provider for MotoGP 600. They probably helped draft the emissions standards with an eye on resurrecting the basic premise of the NXR750 engine design.

I miss my Honda Rs125 2 stroke. Which Honda manufactured until very recently. What is the logical entry point now - 600's? Hmm.