Fell off. What went wrong?

[wezo]

OK, been riding 'big' bikes for about 6 months. Was doing U turn at end of rural road. Sports bike (Duke 900SS) Road slightly sloping to right (slightly). About half way through turn and its tipped right over?? Didn't expect that! Broke indicator. I feel bad. Thankfully no one saw me that i know of. I got a sore back too picking the thing off the road.

What did i just do wrong. Signed brusied ego.

[Tank]

You didnt get your feet down fast enough.

[yungatart]

Sounds like a standard u turn to me...that's how I always do them.
Only I get someone else to pick up the bike...try that next time, it should lessen the chance f you hurting your back.

[Hitcher]

Gravity is only a theory, so it can't have been that.

[<Rhino>]

Gravity!...



Dang, Hitch,,...pipped at the post 1 minute

[F5 Dave]

Well a 900 is a big bike for only riding big bikes for 6 months, but I'll get burnt for saying that.

Std practice in carkparks doing figure 8s. Drag back brake, feather clutch, don't use front & look where you want to go (ie eyes & head turned so you are looking upright & reasonably far around. Last point will be the hardest to master.

[NighthawkNZ]

OK, been riding 'big' bikes for about 6 months. Was doing U turn at end of rural road. Sports bike (Duke 900SS) Road slightly sloping to right (slightly). About half way through turn and its tipped right over?? Didn't expect that! Broke indicator. I feel bad. Thankfully no one saw me that i know of. I got a sore back too picking the thing off the road.

What did i just do wrong. Signed brusied ego.

Well sounds like a standard u-turn... only difference is you not suppose to fall over... :bash:



Possible going to slow and then tweaked the throttle to much...
Leaning to much in to the turn and to slower speed,
simple loss of concentration.
Going to fast for the turn and snap on front brake while in the turn...

pretty hard to know with out watching what happened, or more info on what you were doing with the controls... you don't have it on video do you? :D

The I find not having the clutch fully out while ready on the rear brake (try stay off the front)... I don't drag it as others have suggested, but may work for you every one is different and every situation is different... Remember to look to where you want to go, not just your eyes but turn your head...

[Devil]

Std practice in carkparks doing figure 8s. Drag back brake, feather clutch, don't use front & look where you want to go (ie eyes & head turned so you are looking upright & reasonably far around. Last point will be the hardest to master.

Wot 'e said.

[wezo]

have had 650cc for ages. Just 1st 900. I think i was looking down and lent over to far. Not used to weight difference??

[jrandom]

What did i just do wrong.

You grabbed the front brake.

The clutch, throttle and, if absolutely necessary, rear brake, are your friends during U-turns.

The front brake is not.

Or maybe you just had a total brain failure. Never mind, you won't do it again, will you?

And, no worries, we've all had brain-dead drops in driveways etc, it just happens eh.

48 hours after I got my pristine brand spanking new GSX1400 last year, I rolled into the driveway after a 1,000km run-in ride, popped her up on the centerstand, lubed the chain, popped her off, and dropped her plop on the other side. Air turned blue, etc. And I burned my knee on the headers trying to hold her up as she tipped away from me. Still got the scar.

I'd never had a bike that heavy with a centerstand before, and just didn't think to straddle it before flopping it off the stand.

[MarkH]

you don't have it on video do you? :D


Maybe he could visit some experienced bikers and demonstrate his falling over technique so that they could tell him why he's doing it.

[NighthawkNZ]

Maybe he could visit some experienced bikers and demonstrate his falling over technique so that they could tell him why he's doing it.

I mean but not that mean... oh wait :confused: I could be :D <_<:chase:

[wezo]

the bike didn't skid out from the front or anything. I was barely moving! It was 'just rolling' and It 'laid' down. I must have leant over to the point of no return without enough forward momentum. I will not do this again...i hope.

[NighthawkNZ]

the bike didn't skid out from the front or anything. I was barely moving! It was 'just rolling' and It 'laid' down. I must have leant over to the point of no return without enough forward momentum. I will not do this again...i hope.


Sounds like it...

[AlBundy]

How easy do you reach the ground?

Are you a scrawny shite or a fat bastard? Makes a difference when in a compromised situation...

[DarkLord]

One thing I've been trying, when making a tight turn, is although I've got the handlebars pointing right (if I'm turning right of course) and I feel the weight starting to dip over to the right a little too much, is I put a little bit of pressure on the left handlebar, to counter steer and shift the weight slightly more towards the middle, so even though the bike is still turning right the weight is balanced towards the middle a little more.

I've been practicing it regularly on my Whoflung and it works really well.

Hope that is of some help to you?

cheers

DL

[MarkH]

the bike didn't skid out from the front or anything. I was barely moving! It was 'just rolling' and It 'laid' down. I must have leant over to the point of no return without enough forward momentum. I will not do this again...i hope.

Bike too heavy for your level of experience? Only solution is to practise more and gain the experience you need.

[OutForADuck]

You grabbed the front brake.
...

The clutch, throttle and, if absolutely necessary, rear brake, are your friends during U-turns.

The front brake is not.

....

Hate to disagree but trying to balance a big bike on the throttle and clutch is a very advanced move.. a little to much throttle or clutch etc and you've lost it.

Better technique for slow speed handling, Set throttle to slightly faster than idle and lock it there (use your thumb against switch block if you want to). Slip clutch so that bike moves forward but a little back break will stop it and lock it there (tighten fingers together if you like).

Now use that back break to control your speed and enjoy the stability of a spinning motor (gyroscopic effect) and constant taught drive (drive against chain and brake) whilst all you have to concentrate on is turning the bars..... OH yeah and that balance thingy :laugh:

Doing the above I have been able to teach newby's to turn a sports bike lock to lock in no time flat!!!

When you start out you'll probaby want a bit more revs and a little more clutch slip but you'll soon find a really nice sweet spot.

[Usarka]

Road slightly sloping to right (slightly). About half way through turn and its tipped right over?? To the right as in the direction you were going before, after or during the turn? :sherlock:


I was barely moving! It was 'just rolling' and It 'laid' down.

Go faster :lol:

Throttle = constant
Back brake = constant but use more if need to slow down
Clutch = speed control
Head = on shoulders, facing intended destination

[jrandom]

trying to balance a big bike on the throttle and clutch is a very advanced move.

ZOMG, does that make me a 'very advanced' rider?

:eek:

Oh, no, wait, I can't stay upright either.

Back to the old drawing board.

[idb]

How easy do you reach the ground?

Are you a scrawny shite or a fat bastard? Makes a difference when in a compromised situation...

Is it not a problem for scrawny bastards or fat shites?

[Chickadee]

Smoothness, speed, looking through the turn (where you want to go) is all I can say. Target fixation (looking at the ground) and snail speed are not our friends when on two wheels.

[Pussy]

Gravity is only a theory, so it can't have been that.

Gravity is a myth... the Earth sucks!

Sorry to hear you dropped your bike, wezo. I damaged the tank on Gassit Girl's few week old K5 SV650S over three years ago, the side stand wasn't properly over centre when I took the bike off the paddock stand, that was a simple/stupid mistake too

[idb]

Smoothness, speed, looking through the turn (where you want to go) is all I can say. Target fixation (looking at the ground) and snail speed are not our friends when on two wheels.

Ah yes, target fixation - the act of the bike going where you are looking.
In no circumstances at any time on a bike should you look at the ground as that is where you will surely end up!

[merv]

Chances are you turned far enough to hit the steering stop - when that happens over you go, unless you try to ride as upright as you can and slip the clutch as you turn and keep it off the stop.

[NighthawkNZ]

Ah yes, target fixation - the act of the bike going where you are looking.



It doesn't always work yah know... I look at Boobies all the time (thinking I wouldn't mind end there...) but alas boobies :no:

[The Stranger]

OK, been riding 'big' bikes for about 6 months. Was doing U turn at end of rural road. Sports bike (Duke 900SS) Road slightly sloping to right (slightly). About half way through turn and its tipped right over?? Didn't expect that! Broke indicator. I feel bad. Thankfully no one saw me that i know of. I got a sore back too picking the thing off the road.

What did i just do wrong. Signed brusied ego.

Wild guess, throttle control.
A slight off of the throttle, particularly on a twin, will have a similar effect to a bit of front brake - as jrandom points out - not good.

If you turn the wheel to the right, then your front contact patch moves to the left as does your centre of gravity - thus the bike is heavier on the RHS.
Try it, put your bike on it's side stand and turn the bars full left then full right. Which is more stable?
Ditch a little speed (brake or throttle), loose the gyro effect and the bike falls to the heavier side.

Regardless of the cause, the easiest way to correct the situation and guarantee this never happens again is to weight the fuck out of the outside peg. This re-centres the COG and permits (with a little practise and LOTS of weight) tighter than full lock turns at low speed.

Oh and always look where you want to be, not where you don't want to hit.

One more thing. If it starts to dip into the turn (but it wont if you weght the peg as I have said) the best way to correct it is to give it a little throttle, don't stab the ground, if put your foot down, your leg going out to the inside to make the stab will add more weight to the inside compounding the problem.

[Winston001]

Gravity is only a theory, so it can't have been that.

Absolute codswallop.......he said respectfully :done:


Gravity is a well-known.................working hypothesis :laugh:.

[Winston001]

OK, been riding 'big' bikes for about 6 months. Was doing U turn at end of rural road. Sports bike (Duke 900SS) Road slightly sloping to right (slightly). About half way through turn and its tipped right over?? Didn't expect that! Broke indicator. I feel bad. Thankfully no one saw me that i know of. I got a sore back too picking the thing off the road.

What did i just do wrong. Signed brusied ego.

Hmmmm......I feel your pain. All too well.......

Exactly the same situation happened to me a short time after I got my Duc. I discovered myself being tossed over the right-side bars onto the bitumen which then took a nasty bite out of my lovely ST4 just behind me.

The greatest damage was to my ego.

I had been used to wide bars and low centre of gravity on the BMW so balance was never an issue.

Don't feel bad. Find a carpark and practise. Not that I've done that of course, but you should :eek:

[NighthawkNZ]

Exactly the same situation happened to me a short time after I got my Duc. I discovered myself being tossed over the right-side bars onto the bitumen which then took a nasty bite out of my lovely ST4 just behind me.


Difference is use is character issues :chase:

[kickingzebra]

in this situation you should have pulled a wheelie.

[rocketman1]

Chances are you turned far enough to hit the steering stop - when that happens over you go, unless you try to ride as upright as you can and slip the clutch as you turn and keep it off the stop.

The rider has probably done exactly this. Once the bike hits the stop you are off, as your body is leaning and you cannot steer into the turn anymore to counteract that.
After you are on the deck, you probably are not aware that the steering hit the stop , you are only thinking about one thing , how am I going to correct this...Sorry mate you cant, unless you have extra long legs or a very low bike..

[alanzs]

The best part is that you got back on still ride. Practice, practice, practice.

I crashed a bike 20 minutes after buying it. I was cut off by a pickup truck and grabbed a handful of the front brake and highsided over the front. Guess I grabbed too hard on the lever. :lol: Oh well, $5000K later, everything was fine. Lesson learnt.

[Motu]

Not enough steering lock....and as Merv says,hit the stops,you need more lock....and down you go.I have problems with street bikes because of this,I'm used to dirt bikes and trials bikes which have much more lock - and U turns are a breeze.

[The Stranger]

The rider has probably done exactly this. Once the bike hits the stop you are off, as your body is leaning and you cannot steer into the turn anymore to counteract that.


So let me get this straight.
If you hit the steering stops, that's it you crash?
Turning into the turn more would only weight to the inside of the bike more, how would this help aleviate a fall to the inside of the turn?
Which way is your body leaning during this proceedure?

[magicfairy]

I dropped my bike trying to turn too sharply, too slowly on the Cook Staight Ferry.

In front of hundreds of people, on a packed boat, on Good Friday.

My excuse was that loaded up with luggage and the change in weight distribution caught me out.

I just wanted the ground to open up and swallow me.:o

[Voltaire]

[QUOTE=Winston001;1755915]Hmmmm......I feel your pain. All too well.......


"The greatest damage was to my ego.

I had been used to wide bars and low centre of gravity on the BMW so balance was never an issue. "

Agreed.
I think a lot has to do with the riding position and poor....er limited steering lock, don't have issues with tight low speed turns on my old Beemer...900ss not so easy, found that on the northern motorway this morning when I tried to turn it round and ride north on the southbound lane......( see news for this)
I have been riding touring bikes for years but find the 900ss a very different proposition to say...a 900SD or R100rs. Low speed turns are just not its thing, but its a great bike on the open road.

[sinfull]

Bike too heavy for your level of experience? Only solution is to practise more and gain the experience you need.


ZOMG, does that make me a 'very advanced' rider?

:eek:

Oh, no, wait, I can't stay upright either.

Back to the old drawing board.


So let me get this straight.
If you hit the steering stops, that's it you crash?
Turning into the turn more would only weight to the inside of the bike more, how would this help aleviate a fall to the inside of the turn?
Which way is your body leaning during this proceedure?

He did ask Col !
Seems the advice crew have been busy today ! Some comments sounded ok some hillarious
Sounds to me like the 900ss is a heavier bike than he's used to ! He wont do it again !
Like to see anyone do a u turn on a rural road without being hard on the stops on my 1050 !

[Pedrostt500]

Gravity is a myth, The Earth Sucks!.

[Hinny]

Sounds to me like you were in the wrong gear.
In that situation when you give it the gas nothing much happens and you find yourself out of balance. Gravity/inertia balance that is.

[Richard Mc F]

Not enough steering lock....and as Merv says,hit the stops,you need more lock....and down you go.I have problems with street bikes because of this,I'm used to dirt bikes and trials bikes which have much more lock - and U turns are a breeze.

For sure, I have ridden 900ss and no lock, so feet up and lean waaay off:done:

[eelracing]

Practise practise practise

[gunrunner]

Its the joys and fears of a big bike - picking it up . Least its not as heavy as my beast and hopefully i will never have to pick it up but then that could be the least of my worries:nono:

[Forest]

Not enough steering lock....and as Merv says,hit the stops,you need more lock....and down you go.I have problems with street bikes because of this,I'm used to dirt bikes and trials bikes which have much more lock - and U turns are a breeze.

This is a particular problem with Ducatis. They generally have a very narrow steering lock.

[kevfromcoro]

Dont feel bad about it....i did the same thing on a beemer...u turn on a highway..to pick something up......down i went.....felt like a right idiot.......
and i have been riding over 40 yrs.............
shit happens.....

[helenoftroy]

Hmmmm......I feel your pain. All too well.......

Exactly the same situation happened to me a short time after I got my Duc. I discovered myself being tossed over the right-side bars onto the bitumen which then took a nasty bite out of my lovely ST4 just behind me.

The greatest damage was to my ego.

I had been used to wide bars and low centre of gravity on the BMW so balance was never an issue.

Don't feel bad. Find a carpark and practise. Not that I've done that of course, but you should :eek:

Have'nt dropped my Duc doing a u turn(2 falls of side stand tho:doh:)but they have shocking turning circles and I have come very close.......:sick:

And like Winston001 and others have said trail bikes/adventure bikes turn so easy

My last bikes were a BMW1000GS & a XL200R

[merv]

So let me get this straight.
If you hit the steering stops, that's it you crash?


Generally yes unless you are going really slow and manage to kind of do a hop on your foot on the inside of the turn and get the bike upright as quick as you can. The reason is your body is kind of set up for the turn, the bike hits the stop and doesn't turn sharp enough and you put your foot down to catch it but you end up doing ever increasing splits and next thing you are lying on your side.

As Motu says, its a bit of a trap for us dirt bikers used to the generous steering lock of our trail bikes. I have to be quite careful doing u-eys on my VFR because of the lack of lock in comparison. The one that has caught me out once is Mrs merv's DR650 because it just doesn't turn as sharp as our other dirt bikes.

[The Stranger]

Generally yes

Ok thanks for that.
I must stop doing that then, I have always found it quite inconsequential and never paid it a thought. Even on my Blackbird which is heavy as fuck and the weight is quite high.

Personally I would suspect that the plot is lost prior to the stop being hit and the hit is just the straw or the result, but having not exerienced the problem obviously I can't say for sure.

[Usarka]

Sounds to me like you were in the wrong gear. .

Gotta remember ATGATT.......

[Motu]

Personally I would suspect that the plot is lost prior to the stop being hit

As it's hit! For Me and Merv it's a case of expectations - we expect the bike to turn tighter...we are making a tighter turn,and then clunk.Of course I don't drop a bike like that....but had a few close calls.You know your bike and don't have a problem....possibly the other bikes you ride would be similar.If you rode a tight turning dirt bike you wouldn't run into problems with too much lock.Think outside your box....

[Winston001]

Difference in use is character issues :chase:

There ya go - he was on a Duke, it's a character issue. Solved. :Punk:



Apart from that, these lovely beasts require a a small paddock to complete a 180 degree turn. Character. Love it. :love:

[McJim]

Mmmm big turning circle on a 900ss..makes U turns more....thought provoking....

[The Stranger]

Think outside your box....

No thanks, I am quite happy within my box where there is no problem when hitting stops or with low speed tight turns, on my road bike or motard.

But thanks, I'll keep your ideas for use as an excuse later should I need it.

[wezo]

Just look at the replies!!
I must admit i like the explanations that blame the bike and not me!
The steering stop makes sense though. And done plenty of U turns on that road on my SV without a problem. Fortunately no damage that super glue can't fix! (indicator cover) Picking the thing up in a hurry to stop the oil and petrol leaking out (and to avoid embarrassment) has given me a flippin sore back though.

I'm putting it down to inattention to what would normally be a piece of cake and inexperience with the bike. I promise it won't happen again.

[Hinny]

I must admit i like the explanations that blame the bike and not me!
The steering stop makes sense though.
.

You should be able to do figure eights on the steering stops.
It is a matter of throttle control. More gas and the bike stands up.
You can get training videos which show you how. Little women, riding Harleys, doing fig 8's on the stops.
Look where you want to go etc.... go practice.

[Voltaire]

[QUOTE=Hinny;1756505]You should be able to do figure eights on the steering stops.
QUOTE]

I can do figure 8's with a BMW and sidecar with the sidecar wheel in the air....in a large carpark....rural road...no.
I can turn my solo BMW no bother on any road, but the 900ss not so easy....must be just down to me not using throttle control, weighting the pegs and counter steering.......
Maybe after another 25 years of riding I might improve.
:laugh:

[idb]

Not enough steering lock....and as Merv says,hit the stops,you need more lock....and down you go.I have problems with street bikes because of this,I'm used to dirt bikes and trials bikes which have much more lock - and U turns are a breeze.

It's a stupid idea to have steering locks then, they should ban them!!!

[Wingnut]

OK, been riding 'big' bikes for about 6 months. Was doing U turn at end of rural road. Sports bike (Duke 900SS) Road slightly sloping to right (slightly). About half way through turn and its tipped right over?? Didn't expect that! Broke indicator. I feel bad. Thankfully no one saw me that i know of. I got a sore back too picking the thing off the road.

What did i just do wrong. Signed brusied ego.

Automatic entry for the "Stupid question postings 2008" Competition. JESUS WTF!!!!

[Bonez]

Just look at the replies!!
I must admit i like the explanations that blame the bike and not me!
The steering stop makes sense though. And done plenty of U turns on that road on my SV without a problem. Fortunately no damage that super glue can't fix! (indicator cover) Picking the thing up in a hurry to stop the oil and petrol leaking out (and to avoid embarrassment) has given me a flippin sore back though.

I'm putting it down to inattention to what would normally be a piece of cake and inexperience with the bike. I promise it won't happen again.Get that back looked at.

A bit more speed while doing the turn would probably have helped. You were on a slight slope no momentum and over you go :doh: Easy to do on a new(to you) bike.

[rocketman1]

What happens is you have leaned into the tight turn, expecting to turn as usual, hit the steering stops, and because of your slow speed and the fact that have leaned over for a tighter turn than the bike will allow means disaster, you cannot recover from this unless your very quick with being able to speed up and transfer your weight to the outside of the bike, which you often cannot do because of the nature of the geography around you, which makes you do a tight turn to start with. ie the width of the road.

[The Stranger]

You should be able to do figure eights on the steering stops.
It is a matter of throttle control. More gas and the bike stands up.
You can get training videos which show you how. Little women, riding Harleys, doing fig 8's on the stops.
Look where you want to go etc.... go practice.

Looking at a LOT of the posts here, it really would appear that a great many could use some help with low speed turns.

Check out page 86 (http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=akcdioKmRk8C&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=lee+parks+total+control+low+speed+turns&source=web&ots=CzEIqkCq0v&sig=1lyn11KVwaZysDWn5YEOvxIwJbs&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA86,M1)

Simple, logical and effective.

[Ocean1]

Simple, logical and effective.

And a fookin' sight easier on a Gasgas than a Buell. :baby:

[The Stranger]

And a fookin' sight easier on a Gasgas than a Buell. :baby:

Yes, I'm sure it is, however I am sure it is a fookin sight easier on a Buell than a Goldwing as demonstrated on page 87.

[Ocean1]

I'm off to buy me some of these babies:

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[dpex]

the bike didn't skid out from the front or anything. I was barely moving! It was 'just rolling' and It 'laid' down. I must have leant over to the point of no return without enough forward momentum. I will not do this again...i hope.

I think you've identified the issue. Not enough go forward speed. It's taken me ages to pluck up the courage to a) keep on some speed during figure-of-eight practice. B) ride the clutch. C) look to where I want to go. As soon as I lose just one of these the turns go pear-shaped.

Some speed = intertial balance. Too much speed equals fucked rims on the gutter. Somewhere in between is harmony. One of these days I'll get it ten out of ten. :--(((

[Ixion]

Gas it .

[Ocean1]

I think you've identified the issue. Not enough go forward speed.


Gas it .

Y'know, the strange ones tip's a good one.

You can regulate your speed to maintain bike attitude in a slow turn. It's half of the equation for normal speed turns too.

But if you've ever watched someone do it on a trials bike it rapidly becomes clear that they can maintain that attitude at any speed, including veeeerry veeeerry slowly. That's the other half of the equation you use at normal speeds: Balance. So I reckon you need control over both to get the job done, at any speed.

And in spite of my earlier wee quibble I've decided the bike geometry matters not a jot. I base this not on any outrageous personal skill, (s'true, my balance is fookin' useless), just observation. In particular I've just observed a mate turn my Buell in circles on my driveway, (a radius within which it can't be pushed) at about 1rpm. Bastard never twitched let alone touch the deck.

[Motu]

I don't think it's a matter of whether you can do it or not - I can ride my trials bike in circles on the stops....and stop.....and then do it on the other lock.So it's not a matter of skill and control,it's unfamiliarity with the bike....and the situation at the time.Exactly what happened with the OP.

I got caught out last year with my first ride on the BMW - the low speed handling is superb of course,so when I did a turn in a farm driveway I got caught out with the lack of lock.I kinda expected a bike that was so easy to control at low speed,would be...ah,easy to control.No biggie,I didn't drop the bike,no one saw me....it caught me out,but I caught it in time.There is no limit to the learning we can do.

[Slyer]

Looking at a LOT of the posts here, it really would appear that a great many could use some help with low speed turns.

Check out page 86 (http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=akcdioKmRk8C&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=lee+parks+total+control+low+speed+turns&source=web&ots=CzEIqkCq0v&sig=1lyn11KVwaZysDWn5YEOvxIwJbs&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA86,M1)

Simple, logical and effective.
That book looks pretty good, anyone know where I can get a copy?

[The Stranger]

That book looks pretty good, anyone know where I can get a copy?

I got friend in the US to send me the copy I have.
You can borrow it if you like.
Would be the best book on motorcycling that I have read as I like to know why things work, not only that they do work.

[Ocean1]

I don't think it's a matter of whether you can do it or not - I can ride my trials bike in circles on the stops....and stop.....and then do it on the other lock.

Then yer a better man than me Gunga Din.

Well, I sorta fluke it occasionally. :laugh:



So it's not a matter of skill and control,it's unfamiliarity with the bike....and the situation at the time.Exactly what happened with the OP.

Yeah, happens to most of us I suspect.

It's just that sometimes there's no witnesses. <_<

[Slyer]

I got friend in the US to send me the copy I have.
You can borrow it if you like.
Would be the best book on motorcycling that I have read as I like to know why things work, not only that they do work.

That would be great once I've gotten used to riding and want to improve.

[Usarka]

That book looks pretty good, anyone know where I can get a copy?

http://www.fishpond.co.nz/Books/Nonfiction/Transport/Motorcycles/General/product_info/1031913/?cf=3&rid=71509946&i=1&keywords=total+control

Borrowing sounds cheaper, but it might be a keeper.....

[MarkH]

http://www.fishpond.co.nz/Books/Nonfiction/Transport/Motorcycles/General/product_info/1031913/?cf=3&rid=71509946&i=1&keywords=total+control

Borrowing sounds cheaper, but it might be a keeper.....

Seems expensive compared to:
http://www.amazon.com/Total-Control-Performance-Street-Techniques/dp/0760314039/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223329266&sr=8-1

[Slyer]

Hmmm yeah I'm considering buying a bulk load of books from Amazon, the nz online book stores aren't cheap.

[MarkH]

Hmmm yeah I'm considering buying a bulk load of books from Amazon, the nz online book stores aren't cheap.

I have a friend that likes old TV shows, some he can't find here and he doesn't have a computer or credit card. So I order the DVDs from Amazon for him and he pays me back, for his next order I might throw this book in as well.

Buying just the one book from Amazon and paying freight (using the cheapest slowest shipping option) would probably cost under NZ$40. The fishpond price claims to be a discounted price at $46.29, suggesting that the retail price is $63. This suggests we are being ripped of on the price of books in NZ.

[avgas]

i blame the government

[crazybigal]

Id say you were going too slow

[crazybigal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWaq0zOaAVU

[smokiesam]

Dropped my Hornet 900 last week pissed me off. Turning in a car park and I stored it. It has a smaller front spocket so it does need a little more to get it moving. Bark basters and top box stopped any damage apart a scatch on the engine cover. lession learned pull away straight if I can help it. First drop I can remember and its lower to the ground than my last gsx750 and about the same weight but I guess the arm not as strong as it once was. Im a little nervious now at low speed specially 2 up.

[sinned]

You learn what not too do just after having done that. How I dropped it: http://diary-of-a-born-again-biker.blogspot.com/2006/10/first-ride.html

[MarkH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWaq0zOaAVU

That is some seriously good bike handling skill. Those guys must have been well trained!

[MarkH]

Here's one for the fans of HD & big cruisers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99KKx7cB-Ok