Vindictive National Party Law and Order Policy

[Mully]

The bastards!! Expecting the poor criminals to do their whole sentence.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/vote08/4717645a28435.html

Where do they get off? Helen won't stand for it (like she stands to pee).

Outrageous!!!

[Tank]

The bastards!! Expecting the poor criminals to do their whole sentence.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/vote08/4717645a28435.html

Where do they get off? Helen won't stand for it (like she stands to pee).

Outrageous!!!

Indeed.

I feel VERY strongly about this

Unfortuantley a old childhood friend of mine raped and killed his 7yo neighbour when we were younger.

He got out of jail / Hospital a few years later having been released on the gounds of 'mental instability' (or whatever the correct term is).

A few years later he 'snapped' again and killed a 81 YO lady.

I've always thought if he did'nt get released that poor old lady would not have been murdered.

I dont believe that anyone who kills deserves a second chance.

[Hitcher]

I dont believe that anyone who kills deserves a second chance.

Good grief. There is a huge difference between psychotic nut cases and people who kill in the heat of the moment -- crimes of passion, if you will. That's why we have a justice system, to assess each case on its merits, or lack of merits. "One-size-fits-all" sentencing is a red-neck, knee-jerk, intellectual cop-out, just the same as calls for reinstating the death penalty. In my opinion.

I'm sorry. I forgot it's election year, and fell for the obvious troll.

[Lias]

Good grief. There is a huge difference between psychotic nut cases and people who kill in the heat of the moment -- crimes of passion, if you will. That's why we have a justice system, to assess each case on its merits, or lack of merits. "One-size-fits-all" sentencing is a red-neck, knee-jerk, intellectual cop-out, just the same as calls for reinstating the death penalty. In my opinion.

I'm sorry. I forgot it's election year, and fell for the obvious troll.

We all know the BDOTGNZA want the death penalty reinstated for crimes against the english language.

[Hitcher]

We all know the BDOTGNZA want the death penalty reinstated for crimes against the english language.

If the Brave Defenders thought for one moment that that would help, the Apostrophe Lynch-Mob Posse would be on the road full time.

[Finn]

Remember the referendum on tougher sentences for violent offending during the last election (or the one before)? 92% of voters ticked "yes", put the fuckers away and keep them away until their sentence is served. Clark ignored this saying that Liarbours policy was for violent offenders to spend half an hour in front of a hippie and release them back to the wild as soon as possible.

Clark's policies are DIRECTLY responsible for many of New Zealand's murders. She should be put away for life but not in a woman's prison cause she would enjoy that.

[firefighter]

"One-size-fits-all" sentencing is a red-neck, knee-jerk, intellectual cop-out, just the same as calls for reinstating the death penalty.

I think personally that the death penalty is appropriate when there is absolute certainty and proof that the accused is guilty of murder, there is no remorse and it was a premeditated crime (not a crime of passion)

And surely you must agree that a crimminal serving their full sentence is at the very least only just? Or why not just give shorter sentences? Letting prisoners out early is only going to piss off the victims and their families and the only reason this happens is because the prisons are too full and they want to reward the prisoner for good behaviour, so as to hopefully send them home on a good note........what reward does the victim and their family get? They get to be traumitised at the fact that the killer of their mum/child/father etc has been released early from a sentence which was too short in the first place......

[avgas]

We all know the BDOTGNZA want the death penalty reinstated for crimes against the english language.
if only we spoke it here. would make sense of the 10 years of schooling our kids get.
we speak kiwi - plain and simple, fighting against that is like pissing in the ocean.

[enigma51]

they should just put a fence around south auckland ...... problem solved! :Pokey:

[Mully]

Good grief. There is a huge difference between psychotic nut cases and people who kill in the heat of the moment -- crimes of passion, if you will.

I think National are promoting a "Two strikes and you're out" policy.

I'd be interested if there were any statistics showing how many crimes of passion were repeat offenders.

FWIW, I don't support the death penalty. It's too easy for it to be abused for one thing. I do, however, support cold-blooded killers/repeat rapists/child abusers, etc. being locked away for good.

Fuck them. Fuck their families. And fuck their cute little kittens with a big black dog.

[NighthawkNZ]

I can think of a couple of cases where if I was on the jury I would be say no not him.... they have the wrong person... and even with all the evidence saying they didn't do it... they are still in jail...

But for repeat offenders of violent crimes I agree... if prooven

[PrincessBandit]

I don't remotely see how "vindictive" can be used for what is being discussed. Helen might think differently if these people all had to come live in a big halfway house right next door to her.
I have doubts about capital punishment although it's very easy to be emotively swayed towards supporting it should it ever seriously come up for consideration. If prison terms were hard labour and without any of the creature comforts that many prisoners seem to have in prison (which they don't have on the outside) maybe it would be more of a deterrent. If prison was really such a dire place to be then wouldn't we have less people in there and no need to build more and more of them? Oh excuse me while I return to my delusions........

[Hitcher]

And surely you must agree that a crimminal serving their full sentence is at the very least only just? Or why not just give shorter sentences?

Yes and no. I believe that a role of our prison system is to rehabilitate people to live a crime-free life on their release. This includes a parole system that is properly resourced to to do what parole services are supposed to do. Our prison incarceration rates rank up there with the USA. If building more prisons is the "answer" to crime, then we're not asking the right questions, and we're (taxpayers) not providing the right resources to crime prevention in its broadest sense.

That said, there are people who are non-parole-able for a bunch of reasons. And anybody who abuses their parole should be returned to secure custody to serve at least the balance of their sentence.

I don't think that sound policy development should ever be driven by sloganeering: "Life means life", "Two strikes and you're out", "Bring back the death penalty"; even thought there may be merit in some of those options.

[Swoop]

After nine years of "education", how dare we even think about punishing the criminals?

I wonder what the green party policy on crime is? "Here, have a hug and a flower!"?

[Tank]

Good grief. There is a huge difference between psychotic nut cases and people who kill in the heat of the moment -- crimes of passion, if you will. That's why we have a justice system, to assess each case on its merits, or lack of merits. "One-size-fits-all" sentencing is a red-neck, knee-jerk, intellectual cop-out, just the same as calls for reinstating the death penalty. In my opinion.

I'm sorry. I forgot it's election year, and fell for the obvious troll.

OK - fair call on the heat of the moment and "one size fits all" comment - and yeah - I agree with that - even tho my post says the opposite. Thats what I get for writing and not thinking.

The 'story' I told was sadly true - I've also had a friend murdered by someone with a violent past.

So its far from being a "obvious" troll.

I'm one removed in that they were friends who have been involved (from both sides of murder) - and I know how much its impacted my life and they way I feel about certain things - It must be far, far, far harder on their family's causing a pain that I could never wish on even my worst enemies.

Unfortunately when exposed to something so horrific, it is harder to remain objective and you do end up with more polar views on the subject - I realize that, and I also know that polar views do not lead to suitable nor fair solutions.

So sorry that my post came across 'stronger' that it was supposed to (indeed I know that what I wrote is not exactly how I feel) - but it comes from a deep emotional view point - and was not written as a light hearted troll for political amusement.

[NighthawkNZ]

Lets all just live in prison... oh wait labour we are

[SlashWylde]

I wonder what the green party policy on crime is? "Here, have a hug and a flower!"?

No, not really. It's rather tiresome when people pigeon-hole a party with such off the cuff remarks based on superficial perceptions.

Take the time to learn about a given party's policies in order to make informed comment on issues and eventually an informed decision on voting day.

Fact of the matter is, no one party has all the answers to running the country and some of the smaller parties have a strong voice on niche issues. This is one of the benefits of an MMP system.

http://www.greens.org.nz/policy/summary/justice

Makes for interesting reading.

Particularly this bit:

While the Green Party has worked hard to strengthen victims' rights in the criminal justice system, appropriate compensation and restoration for complainants is still inadequate and the need for reform is overdue. The Green Party wants to strengthen the rights of victims and will:

1. Hold an inquiry into the role of victims in the criminal justice system, and into what support systems exist for victims of serious crime.
2. Support provisions to deduct unpaid restitution and court fines through the IRD or Income Support and close loopholes to ensure that family or other trusts will cease to be a way of avoiding liability. When offenders receive Income Support (or are of limited means) they should be given a choice to either pay off fines or provide restitution in some other way.
3. Research the viability of state-awarded compensation for victims as well as provision for some offenders, when deemed appropriate, to be required to recompense the state for at least part of the compensation outlay.
4. Provide counselling and compensation for victims, preferably paid for by the offender, where they have the ability to do so.
5. Research the viability of state-awarded compensation for victims where the offender must pay it back to the state.

[MisterD]

they should just put a fence around south auckland ...... problem solved! :Pokey:

I think you'll find that there are plenty of fences around South Auckland...:eek:

[MisterD]

No, not really.

http://www.greens.org.nz/policy/summary/justice

Makes for interesting reading.

"Community based justice" - with a Hockey Stick!

[Dilligaf]

:

When offenders receive Income Support (or are of limited means) they should be given a choice to either pay off fines or provide restitution in some other way. 3. Research the viability of state-awarded compensation for victims as well as provision for some offenders, when deemed appropriate, to be required to recompense the state for at least part of the compensation outlay.
4. Provide counselling and compensation for victims, preferably paid for by the offender, where they have the ability to do so. 5. Research the viability of state-awarded compensation for victims where the offender must pay it back to the state.

Sorry SW, your above link made me think that the Greens are even more in lala land than I thought.
Your average beneficiary is supposed to pay what? $5 a week for 500 years?
And why is it assumed that money will make it better for the family who has lost a loved one?
Just what the family of a lost loved one wants eh? To have a weekly reminder of a pittance of money coming in from someone who could not keep his stabby hands to himself. I would rather see some serious counselling for the offender and empathy lessons and a great big clip around the back of the head.
:confused:
sorry. touched a nerve.

[KiwiKat]

"Community based justice" - with a Hockey Stick!

It's a hell of a lot more productive than sitting in prison making furniture. Get them all working for the full term of their sentence.

Nah hang on that won't work, I don't want them in my neighbourhood.

In Texas I think -there is tent based prison with inmates doing hard labour fixing roads and shit. we have a lot of shit roads to fix.

[Hitcher]

Take the time to learn about a given party's policies in order to make informed comment on issues and eventually an informed decision on voting day.

If you want a change of government, then the only way that will happen is if you vote for the National candidate in your electorate and give National your Party Vote.

Voting for the Greens, on whatever "intellectual" basis, is a vote for Labour, because that is the Party the Greens have stated they will go into coalition with (on the presumption that Labour gets enough votes to be in such a position).

Also it's naive to vote for any Party on the basis of what they "stand for" or what may be written on their manifesto. All of that principled clap trap gets slaughtered on the altar of expediency after the election, when the horse-trading necessary to form a workable coalition (the naked grab for power) really starts. Even without becoming part of a formalised coalition, parties will still compromise their position in order to get the votes necessary to prosecute their legislative programmes or to remain in government.

Politics is never pure or principled. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Cast your vote on 8 November with a cold grasp of reality, rather than some misty-eyed fantasy.

[Swoop]

http://www.greens.org.nz/policy/summary/justice
Makes for interesting reading.
Quite!

* A moratorium on all new prison construction except for the purposes of replacement.
(Huh? With an increasing population we will eventually need new prisons, or is prison overcrowding acceptable?)
* Establish 'family houses' for pregnant women and mothers in prison...
:confused:
Transport:
* Encourage freight to be shifted off roads and onto rail...
(Convenient, since their coalition partner has just bought an expensive trainset)
* Encourage the development of hybrid sea vessels (eg wind...)
(I believe there is already such a thing, called "a Yacht".)
* End the tax exemption on diesel, so diesel users pay their fair share of social and environmental costs.
(Creating a huge increase in inflation and living costs associated with distribution of food and consumer commodities.)
* Oppose plans to fast-track roading projects through the Resource Management Act.
(We simply cannot have the lesser green-backed, lesbian, whale toad-lizard inconvenienced at the expense of bloated beauracracy.)
Energy:
* Introducing a carbon charge on fossil fuels.
(Yep. Gotta have a bit of flagellation to appease the concience.)
* The Green Party will:
Redesign the Electricity Commission as a Sustainable Energy Commission with regulatory responsibility for all fuels.
(Seriously? :laugh:)

That was quite scary, looking at a few policies they have. Thank goodness they are not in a position to "govern alone" politically!

[MisterD]

If you want a change of government, then the only way that will happen is if you vote for the National candidate in your electorate and give National your Party Vote.

I disagree Hitcher - folks in Epsom and Botany especially, should be electorate voting ACT and party voting National. That's the only way the overhang calculations work in "The Right's" favour.



Voting for the Greens, on whatever "intellectual" basis, is a vote for Labour, because that is the Party the Greens have stated they will go into coalition with (on the presumption that Labour gets enough votes to be in such a position).

Not strictly true either, they've said that they will express a preference before the election based on policy, but haven't done so yet. We all know what they will say though, their stance is a feeble attempt to get Labour to not take them for granted....

[Hitcher]

I disagree Hitcher - folks in Epsom and Botany especially, should be electorate voting ACT and party voting National. That's the only way the overhang calculations work in "The Right's" favour.

You raise an interesting and true point for folks in those electorates with a possibility of returning an ACT electorate MP.

But the best way of getting the overhang to work in The Right's favour, is to quickly get oneself on the Maori Roll and vote for the Maori Party. If the Maori Party wins all seven Maori seats, then Parliament overhangs by four. The Maori Party is more likely to enter into either a formal coalition with National or another mutually beneficial arrangement.

[SlashWylde]

That was quite scary, looking at a few policies they have. Thank goodness they are not in a position to "govern alone" politically!

Well quite possibly.

Though I am, in principle a Greens supporter, I don't agree with every thing they stand for. Over the next couple of months I'll be looking at all the parties policies with particular regard to education, law and order and health.

I have to say at times I am tempted to vote for National because I think they might actually be tougher on law and order than either the Greens or Labour, but I won't know till I learn about their policies.

[Beemer]

We all know the BDOTGNZA want the death penalty reinstated for crimes against the english language.

Hitcher obviously missed this one - there should be a capital E at the beginning of English! Naughty boy! :laugh:

[MisterD]

Though I am, in principle a Greens supporter, I don't agree with every thing they stand for.

You mean you've bought into the international Green brand rather than the particular bunch of nutjobs and flakes we have here?

[SlashWylde]

No. Of the NZ Greens party MPs I know personally or have met at party events I don't think any of them are 'nutjobs and flakes' as you put it.

[MisterD]

No. Of the NZ Greens party MPs I know personally or have met at party events I don't think any of them are 'nutjobs and flakes' as you put it.

Wow. You should tell them to get some coaching on how they come across in the media then.

[SPman]

You mean you've bought into the international Green brand rather than the particular bunch of nutjobs and flakes we have here?Perhaps he makes an informed decision based on research and morality which accords with his outlook on life, rather than a populist, mob led, media directed, "there are only 2 parties in this election and one of them represents the Antichrist" rant.........
:whistle:

[SlashWylde]

Wow. You should tell them to get some coaching on how they come across in the media then.

Well since you mention it I'm genuinely interested to know how you all think they come accross in the media, so do tell.

I actually think one of the greatest problems they have in getting any traction with the public is overcoming the common misconception that they are all "A bunch of tree-hugging hippes who think every thing can be fixed with a cup of organic tea and a hug".

[HenryDorsetCase]

Perhaps he makes an informed decision based on research and morality which accords with his outlook on life, rather than a populist, mob led, media directed, "there are only 2 parties in this election and one of them represents the Antichrist" rant.........
:whistle:


no, thats where you're wrong. One represents Gog, the other Magog.

for the less biblically inclined, and to quote Lou Reed "the're both evil fuckers, tell you life is made out of dirt"

sick sick sickety sick of the election already, and for the first time ever have no idea who to vote for. Where is my special interest party? MAWGAAIRSCBHTB* party? I get personally sick of paying for everthing all these other useless specail interests get pandered to. It pisses me off that my vote is worth the same as some dole bludging workshy fat useless lazy bludger who has a heap of kids to maximise the DPB. You should only be able to vote if you own land I reckon.

Middle Aged White Guy, Above Average Income,Reasonably Socially Concerned But Hates the Bludgers

[HenryDorsetCase]

Good grief. There is a huge difference between psychotic nut cases and people who kill in the heat of the moment -- crimes of passion, if you will. That's why we have a justice system, to assess each case on its merits, or lack of merits. "One-size-fits-all" sentencing is a red-neck, knee-jerk, intellectual cop-out, just the same as calls for reinstating the death penalty. In my opinion.

I'm sorry. I forgot it's election year, and fell for the obvious troll.

I can make a very good case for reinstatement of the death penalty, on economic, social and political grounds. I dont see why people get so het up about it. When I rule you all (and I will), I will be executing scumbags just like putting the kettle on, and with as much thought of sympathy for the poor electrons that give their lives to make my cup of tea nice and warm.

but pray continue.

[SlashWylde]

Where is my special interest party? MAWGAAIRSCBHTB* party?

Dunno, but I'm interested. Perhaps you should start one. What's your policy on violent crime for instance?

[MisterD]

Well since you mention it I'm genuinely interested to know how you all think they come accross in the media, so do tell.

I actually think one of the greatest problems they have in getting any traction with the public is overcoming the common misconception that they are all "A bunch of tree-hugging hippes who think every thing can be fixed with a cup of organic tea and a hug".

Honestly Seb, if I'm being nice, I think they're a bunch of idealistic idiots with no regard for the realities of running a country outside of their narrow special-interest focus.

I can't remember which of those identikit "nice ladies in green knitwear" was on the Radio(live) this morning talking about ending coal mining on the Coast - but honestly is the answer to everything Tourism? Is that NZ's future? Some kind of Green theme park for rich Americans?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Dunno, but I'm interested. Perhaps you should start one. What's your policy on violent crime for instance?

if I like you, you get a concealed carry permit for a handgun up to .50 cal, and free ammunition. Open season on scumbags. Get it wrong, though and you become a scumbag, lose your concealed carry privileges, and become, well, a moving target would be the fairest description.

An armed society is a polite society. To preserve peace, prepare for war. Personal responsibility for your actions. Personal freedoms so long as you dont impinge on anothers freedoms.

[SlashWylde]

Honestly Seb, if I'm being nice, I think they're a bunch of idealistic idiots with no regard for the realities of running a country outside of their narrow special-interest focus.

Well maybe focusing on special-interest issues is their niche.



I can't remember which of those identikit "nice ladies in green knitwear" was on the Radio(live) this morning talking about ending coal mining on the Coast - but honestly is the answer to everything Tourism? Is that NZ's future? Some kind of Green theme park for rich Americans?

Didn't hear it myself but it may have been Jeanette. I'll have to look at their online archives this evening and have a listen.

Anyway, I'd better go and do some school work. I have a battery de-sulphator to finish designing. Been fun chatting with you all.

[Oscar]

if I like you, you get a concealed carry permit for a handgun up to .50 cal, and free ammunition. Open season on scumbags. Get it wrong, though and you become a scumbag, lose your concealed carry privileges, and become, well, a moving target would be the fairest description.

An armed society is a polite society. To preserve peace, prepare for war. Personal responsibility for your actions. Personal freedoms so long as you dont impinge on anothers freedoms.

Yeah, right.You're speaking of a country where most of the population can't figure out how to use the indicators on their cars...

[HenryDorsetCase]

Yeah, right.You're speaking of a country where most of the population can't figure out how to use the indicators on their cars...

the beauty of my policy is that if someone say, didnt indicate, and you were a member of my party in good standing, you could use your special privileges and your concealed handgun to (safely) not only remove them from the road, but also the gene pool. Then our children and grandchildren dont have to worry about their children and grandchildren not indicating in their hovercars.

Its a win-win.

I think it would be less of a problem because people will become ever so much more polite when they realise that that middle aged guy with the glasses and shirt and tie, driving that middle-range econobox just might shoot them in the head for carving them up on Bealey Avenue.

[MSTRS]

Yeah, right.You're speaking of a country where most of the population can't figure out how to use the indicators on their cars...

Legitimate targets. Failure to observe driving etiquette will result in 'removal'.

[Oscar]

the beauty of my policy is that if someone say, didnt indicate, and you were a member of my party in good standing, you could use your special privileges and your concealed handgun to (safely) not only remove them from the road, but also the gene pool. Then our children and grandchildren dont have to worry about their children and grandchildren not indicating in their hovercars.

Its a win-win.

I think it would be less of a problem because people will become ever so much more polite when they realise that that middle aged guy with the glasses and shirt and tie, driving that middle-range econobox just might shoot them in the head for carving them up on Bealey Avenue.

I see the wisdom of your vision, Obi-wan, and I hope all right thinking people will follow you.

The only problem the generational part of your vision is that the typical denizen of a forum like this are geeky computer types whose seed will be spilt over hither and yon and never into a fertile womb (other than the blow up kind), so that your wisdom is unlikely to be passed to anything other than a damp Kleenex....

[HenryDorsetCase]

I see the wisdom of your vision, Obi-wan, and I hope all right thinking people will follow you.

The only problem the generational part of your vision is that the typical denizen of a forum like this are geeky computer types whose seed will be spilt over hither and yon and never into a fertile womb (other than the blow up kind), so that your wisdom is unlikely to be passed to anything other than a damp Kleenex....

Don't worry about that, my fertility policy ensures that the rights of "Droit de seigneur" (sp?) are reinstated. Basically that means that as the local squire of the village or whatever, I get first dibs at maidens of child bearing age, so as to spread my clearly superior genes more furtherer. Of course I would only hit up the hot ones.

[Quasievil]

I think National are promoting a "Two strikes and you're out" policy.


Thats ACT isnt it, and 3 strikes and youre in prison ?

[Headbanger]

Good grief. There is a huge difference between psychotic nut cases and people who kill in the heat of the moment -- crimes of passion, if you will.

The end result is much the same.

Perhaps we could ask people which type of murderer they would prefer to be killed by?, you know, because its soooooo different.

[scumdog]

. "One-size-fits-all" sentencing is a red-neck, knee-jerk, intellectual cop-out, just the same as calls for reinstating the death penalty. In my opinion..

Sorry Hitch, Bell, Burton and his ilk have no place on this planet (except as fertiliser) and there IS a place for the death penalty imho, I'd even pay for the bullet.:yes:

The crimes of passion as you put it are another issue, prison for them.

[NighthawkNZ]

The crimes of passion as you put it are another issue, prison for them.

and they server their time with no parole... crimes of passion I really don't believe is an excuse to get a lesser punishment... (but that's just me... and I :crazy: as it is)

I would be interested to see some stats about crimes of passion did they have a voilent past... in any form from anger management to what ever else... how many have recommitted. Basically saying are really were they already an unexploded time bomb waiting to happen...

I like Singapores theory... The don't officially have the death penalty but Life is life till the day you die... so however since you are going to die in prison, we will save the tax payer $1000's per year and you will be hung tomorrow... :shit:

Anyway there is no one single answer and every one entitled to there opinion and theories...

And before you go on you have never been in the situation to comitte a crime of passion... one day I will tell you about a certain drunk drinker, that I wanted to kill...

[Wingnut]

NZ should approach Thailand with a proposal to tender out our corrections duties to them and serious offenders should serve time over there.

There they could actually be subjected to a less than ideal experience opposed to the happy camps they get sent to here. In New Zealand there is no such thing as doing hard time. This has to change - there must be an actual penalty to doing crime - serious criminal forfeit their rights when the committ serious acts upon others.

There - I have has my say. Now off I roll.

Later
W-Nut

[Pedrostt500]

Yes it costs alot of money to keep a crim in jail, but the question is how many times in the last 10 yrs has the porole board released a crim early only for that crim to go out and Rape or Murder again or both with in less than a few months of their release, also how many times in the same period has the courts faild to place some one on remand, and that same person just to go out and Rape and or Murder again.
What is the cost to the victims families in each of these cases, where the justice system has yet again faild to corectly identify that a crim is still a Threat to the public at large.
what is the costs to the Victims Families long after the media has lost interest in the cases, and the story no longer makes front page News.
There is a percentage of our prison population that should never be free, they are the ones who will never be rehabilitated back into the comunity, for a crim to be rehabilitated, they first must want to be rehabilitated, if they choose not to be then there is nothing you can do for them.
I dont think there are many People that wake up one morning and think I'm going to go out today and Rape and Murder, who have never been invoved in lesser crimes previously.
The first thing we need to do is take small crimes seriously, Ie Tagging, Burgulary,& Shop Lifting etc, crack down on the small crimes hard and you will eventualy see a drop in the major crimes.
but some thing needs to be done with those who are in our criminal system now, particurly those who do not wish to be rehabilitated, back into the comunity.
I don't belive in the death penalty, but maybe permanent electronic tracking should be imposed on those who are the greater risk to our Wives, Mothers, Sister, Daughters, Sons, Brothers, & Fathers.

[SlashWylde]

There is a percentage of our prison population that should never be free, they are the ones who will never be rehabilitated back into the comunity, for a crim to be rehabilitated, they first must want to be rehabilitated, if they choose not to be then there is nothing you can do for them.
I dont think there are many People that wake up one morning and think I'm going to go out today and Rape and Murder, who have never been invoved in lesser crimes previously.
The first thing we need to do is take small crimes seriously, Ie Tagging, Burgulary,& Shop Lifting etc, crack down on the small crimes hard and you will eventualy see a drop in the major crimes.
but some thing needs to be done with those who are in our criminal system now, particurly those who do not wish to be rehabilitated, back into the comunity.

I think you are right about that.

[doc]

Was told today that Goff used stats in something on TV on sunday. Something along the lines of ....the only people who complain about Justice n Policing are those who are the least affected, ie the elderly, statistically less involved , and the affluent. Those closest to what is reported in the media don't seem to have the complaints about it. Statiscally speaking of course.

[NighthawkNZ]

ie the elderly, statistically less involved , and the affluent.

is that cause statistically speaking they are the targets of the crims...

Humans just love to put numbers to everything and try statistally show stuff...

[Headbanger]

I think the point was they aren't the victims of crime.

Most shitbags pray on their own communities, and their communities wallow in shit or are ignored, Leaving the old and the rich to point out this shit aint on.

[Pedrostt500]

I believe it has been proven that you can crunch statistics to mean what ever you want them to mean, I believe that those who hide behind statistics, do not wish to face the realities of life, it is far easier for them to hide behind numbers, particurly if the numbers make them look good.
What we seem to be lacking through most of the western world is people taking responsibility for their actions, pick up most news papers and read through the letters to the editor and you will find at least one or two letters blaming the government, council, school, health board or some other organisation, for the bad state of what ever, rather than standing up and saying I'm giong to do, and be responsible for what I do.
New Zealand suffers from Apathy, and Tall Poppy syndrome, we as a nation wish some one else will sort out our problems at no exspense to our selves, then when some one does step up to the plate and try to make a go of it, we try to chop them down so we can feel good about our crappy little small minded lives, by gloating about some one elses failures, and belittling them for even trying to give it a go.

[doc]

[QUOTE=Hitcher;1758608]Yes and no. I believe that a role of our prison system is to rehabilitate people to live a crime-free life on their release. /QUOTE]

Personally, I think that this sort of naive BS is the problem, which goes back to the days of "Transportation" Jails were originally only for holding offenders before they were executed.

How the fark do you rehabilitate a person in an environment of their peers, who have no ambition. What the social engineering dreamers wish for, we could never afford.

Why put the fuckers in jail so we have to pay for their upkeep, why not just have a system where they have to turn up daily, and work or produce something that contributes to the community they live in. They then go home and are supported by their family or whatever.

They fark it up, it gets tougher, keep on farking up the difficulty increases, sort of system. :2guns:

[Pedrostt500]

I think the point was they aren't the victims of crime.

Most shitbags pray on their own communities, and their communities wallow in shit or are ignored, Leaving the old and the rich to point out this shit aint on.

There is only one community it is Our community, it is made up of people of different races, and different beliefs, I may not know you but you are part of my community, I am also part of yours, even though you may live at the other end of the Country from me.

[Mully]

There is only one community it is Our community, it is made up of people of different races, and different beliefs, I may not know you but you are part of my community, I am also part of yours, even though you may live at the other end of the Country from me.

Thats beautiful mate. Do you wanna hug?

No, no. Im fine. I just have something in my eye.

[Pedrostt500]

Thats beautiful mate. Do you wanna hug?

No, no. Im fine. I just have something in my eye.

nah just give us a kiss

[Mully]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Pedrostt500 again.

[Headbanger]

There is only one community it is Our community, it is made up of people of different races, and different beliefs, I may not know you but you are part of my community, I am also part of yours, even though you may live at the other end of the Country from me.

Right, make it local community and then carry on as you were, and I assure you that you are not part of my local community. If you want to test this then let us both walk to our local community hall and see if we both arrive at the same one.

[SPman]

Thats ACT isnt it, and 3 strikes and youre in prison ?And Labours is four strikes and a night with Helen.........

[Manxman]

Quite!

* A moratorium on all new prison construction except for the purposes of replacement.
(Huh? With an increasing population we will eventually need new prisons, or is prison overcrowding acceptable?)
* Establish 'family houses' for pregnant women and mothers in prison...
:confused:
Transport:
* Encourage freight to be shifted off roads and onto rail...
(Convenient, since their coalition partner has just bought an expensive trainset)
* Encourage the development of hybrid sea vessels (eg wind...)
(I believe there is already such a thing, called "a Yacht".)
* End the tax exemption on diesel, so diesel users pay their fair share of social and environmental costs.
(Creating a huge increase in inflation and living costs associated with distribution of food and consumer commodities.)
* Oppose plans to fast-track roading projects through the Resource Management Act.
(We simply cannot have the lesser green-backed, lesbian, whale toad-lizard inconvenienced at the expense of bloated beauracracy.)
Energy:
* Introducing a carbon charge on fossil fuels.
(Yep. Gotta have a bit of flagellation to appease the concience.)
* The Green Party will:
Redesign the Electricity Commission as a Sustainable Energy Commission with regulatory responsibility for all fuels.
(Seriously? :laugh:)

That was quite scary, looking at a few policies they have. Thank goodness they are not in a position to "govern alone" politically!

LMAO:lol:...but you forgot the bit about totally and comprehensively screwing the economy up in less than five and a half minutes (or maybe two and a half, after today's revelations that Mr Cullen has already done at least half the job already).

Keep the feckers well away from government.

[scumdog]

* End the tax exemption on diesel, so diesel users pay their fair share of social and environmental costs.
(.
(Seriously? :laugh:)

That alone is proof they are nutso.

[Robert Taylor]

Indeed.

I feel VERY strongly about this

Unfortuantley a old childhood friend of mine raped and killed his 7yo neighbour when we were younger.

He got out of jail / Hospital a few years later having been released on the gounds of 'mental instability' (or whatever the correct term is).

A few years later he 'snapped' again and killed a 81 YO lady.

I've always thought if he did'nt get released that poor old lady would not have been murdered.

I dont believe that anyone who kills deserves a second chance.
And why burden the taxpayer in keeping them when hanging would solve that issue......

[Oscar]

And Labours is four strikes and a night with Helen.........

I'll take the lethal injection , Your Honour....please...

[Genestho]

Im actually quite surprised National has taken that stance, although I did not doubt they wern't going to say they'd get tough.

There shouldnt be any such word as "repeat violent offender"

I also hope victims rights and needs are recognised and represented within certain agencies.

Somebody here asked how compensation could make families better, it wont change a thing except to help people at a time when motivation is at an all time low.

Victims, survivors and families directly involved (especially if there is a trauma attached to the grief) find it impossible to concentrate on work, but go involuntarily half heartedly because they have to try to pay the bills, perhaps they've lost the provider, lost the house because there was no will or life insurance.
Alot leaving or loosing their jobs because they neither have the motivation or cannot function normally. It does not just stop at a funeral and go back to normal.
Some people loose everything, maybe they could be provided with a leg up financially to get through the hard times, and go on.

Murder has expensive consequences (emotionally and financially) to some survivors and some of those left behind.

Victims, Survivors and those left behind all casualties in a "war" that the govt has been too soft to fight, and theyve had 9 years to try.

I will donate my tax cut gladly to abolish parole for repeats, since the sneaky labour party have left us no way to pay for such a consequence..I pity the poor bastard that takes this ship over

[Lias]

I believe that a role of our prison system is to rehabilitate people to live a crime-free life on their release. This includes a parole system that is properly resourced to to do what parole services are supposed to do.

Fundamental difference in opinion right there.

Let those who commit petty crimes do the community based sentences, and get tax payer funded education and rehabilitation. Those who step further and commit more serious crimes deserve punishment, not a free ride.

Prison should not be about rehabilitation for serious offenders, but about punishment and suffering. Bring back hard labour on bread and water, bring back being chained up in dank dungeons. Make prison hell on earth.

[Lias]

Well since you mention it I'm genuinely interested to know how you all think they come accross in the media, so do tell.

I actually think one of the greatest problems they have in getting any traction with the public is overcoming the common misconception that they are all "A bunch of tree-hugging hippes who think every thing can be fixed with a cup of organic tea and a hug".

To me they come across as a disparate group of tree hugging hippies, NORML rejects, and "head in the clouds" intellectuals who need a good dose of reality.

I'm not opposed to environmentalism as long as it doesn’t inconvenience humanity too much, but pretty much all their social policies make me want to have them, their families, and all their genetic material shot off into the sun for the good of the gene pool.

And as for Sue Bradford, the most painful slow death you can imagine is too good for that bitch.

[Pixie]

kill 'em
kill 'em all

[alanzs]

Most psychiatrists/criminologists now believe that there is no treatment that will cure psychopaths and that keeping them away from others is the only way to keep people safe.

Why waste time and money, and risk our lives, for those that are truly dangerous and violent criminals? Either execute them if there is indisputable proof/and or confessions of their crimes or lock them up forever. If that monster Burton had been locked away for LIFE, more people would not have died. How many times do you get to kill before you lose your freedom for ever? The victims have no rights when they are dead. :bash:

[alanzs]

kill 'em
kill 'em all

Yeah, and make it a pay per view event and give the money to the victims families. :shit:

[scumdog]

Most psychiatrists/criminologists now believe that there is no treatment that will cure psychopaths and that keeping them away from others is the only way to keep people safe.

Why waste time and money, and risk our lives, for those that are truly dangerous and violent criminals? Either execute them if there is indisputable proof/and or confessions of their crimes or lock them up forever. If that monster Burton had been locked away for LIFE, more people would not have died. How many times do you get to kill before you lose your freedom for ever? The victims have no rights when they are dead. :bash:

For incontestable murder convictions? - Death.

For those who don't want that? - pay an extra tax (over and above us pro-death red-neck savages) to keep the buggers alive, I sure as hell don't want my taxes going to fund the continued existence of an oxygen-robbing homicidal twat who is of no earthly benefit to society.

[cs363]

For incontestable murder convictions? - Death.

For those who don't want that? - pay an extra tax (over and above us pro-death red-neck savages) to keep the buggers alive, I sure as hell don't want my taxes going to fund the continued existence of an oxygen-robbing homicidal twat who is of no earthly benefit to society.

I'll vote for that! Scumdog for Justice Minister, lol

[Pussy]

I'll vote for that! Scumdog for Justice Minister, lol


Ditto! The sooner you're in the job, Scummy, the better!

[Sparrowhawk]

ANOTHER reason I'm voting Nats this election. It's about time someone started making sense about crime & punishment. I still support the boot camp idea for teenagers that are going off the rails.

[alanzs]

I'll vote for that! Scumdog for Justice Minister, lol

A-fucking-men!

When I write in the name on the ballot, is it Mr Scumdog? Or is it Scum Dog? I want to make sure I get the spelling correct. :yes:

[alanzs]

For incontestable murder convictions? - Death.

For those who don't want that? - pay an extra tax (over and above us pro-death red-neck savages) to keep the buggers alive, I sure as hell don't want my taxes going to fund the continued existence of an oxygen-robbing homicidal twat who is of no earthly benefit to society.

I agree completely. :clap:

Incontestable murder: There was a multiple murder back in LA at a jewelry store in Beverly Hills a few years back. This guy robbed the store, took a bunch of people hostage and started killing a person every few minutes. It was all recorded on CCTV. He then had the people make a circle and he put one of the hostages in the middle. They walked into the street, attempting to escape. The SWAT team killed the person in the middle. The SWAT team stormed the group and captured the real robber. He was convicted and put to death. Incontestable that he will never do it again.