NZ workers half as productive as those in US!

[firefighter]

N.Z is quickly losing it's rep as having hard working people....

6 October 2008
The productivity of workers in New Zealand has slumped to almost half that of workers in the United States.

A Department of Labour report out today shows productivity at the workplace is among the lowest in the OECD. The figures show New Zealand's GDP per hour worked has fallen sharply to just 56 percent of what workers in US produce.

Nearly all other OECD nations fare considerably better, with most other countries report their productivity is rising. The report says New Zealand is now in the unenviable position of having a large labour productivity gap.

It suggests one of the causes may be having less skilled people taking up lower paid jobs.


http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=91104&fm=psp,tst

hmmmm, yes I totally belive this after seeing the lengths staff go through to help you on my recent visit to the states, especially compared to the service you find here. last weekend I asked a big Island woman at the warehouse a question about something in her section, she scoffed as she raised herself from her seat and looked for an eighth of a second on the computer screen, said na! in a pissed off way and sat down....I notice this sort of thing a lot since my return and it is really bad, I feel like I OWE a shopkeeper something now if they do their job well......and do that little bit extra.

[xwhatsit]

In other ways it's almost a blessing, at least in higher-up jobs. You always here people talking about how in the US nobody wants to take their holidays or a day off; they work in the office well after the normal 9-5 bit, trying to do way too much. If you think about using that comparatively small amount of annual leave they get, no promotion or payrise for you next time!

It's all extremes and stereotypes of course, but even though New Zealand is slowly heading that way, I'm glad we're more aligned with the traditional French `work to live' way of life (even though Sarkozy wants to change this) than the American `live to work' method.

[firefighter]

In other ways it's almost a blessing, at least in higher-up jobs. You always here people talking about how in the US nobody wants to take their holidays or a day off; they work in the office well after the normal 9-5 bit, trying to do way too much. If you think about using that comparatively small amount of annual leave they get, no promotion or payrise for you next time!

It's all extremes and stereotypes of course, but even though New Zealand is slowly heading that way, I'm glad we're more aligned with the traditional French `work to live' way of life (even though Sarkozy wants to change this) than the American `live to work' method.

Erm, dude there was a story recently somewhere (cambell live maybe?) about how we work longer hours than ever before, yet we are near the lowest in the OECD, that is NOT a good thing!

[Cajun]

do away with KB @ workplaces and i am sure nz productiviy would shoot up the rankings

[Quartermile]

I always thought it wasn't so much we work hard here, but more those who go overseas often work harder, which may still be the case.

[jrandom]

Economically speaking, New Zealand is what it is and will always be what it will always be: an extraordinarily beautiful milk powder and woodchip factory.

I'm not entirely sure that the average low-wage worker can make much difference to that fact via personal enthusiasm.

And, yes. NZ's part of the South Pacific and will always reflect the cultural mores of this part of the world, which do tend to involve a lot of sitting on one's arse and having another Tui.

I have difficulty growing particularly exercised over any of the above, inasmuch as I quite enjoy being here. Some might use the words 'lassitude' and 'ennui' in describing the situation; I prefer 'peace' and 'quiet'.

:msn-wink:

[crazybigal]

pay peanuts, get monkeys!!!




hmmmm, yes I totally belive this after seeing the lengths staff go through to help you on my recent visit to the states, especially compared to the service you find here. last weekend I asked a big Island woman at the warehouse a question about something in her section, she scoffed as she raised herself from her seat and looked for an eighth of a second on the computer screen, said na! in a pissed off way and sat down....I notice this sort of thing a lot since my return and it is really bad, I feel like I OWE a shopkeeper something now if they do their job well......and do that little bit extra.

[firefighter]

I always thought it wasn't so much we work hard here, but more those who go overseas often work harder, which may still be the case.

I think you may be correct with that, I have friends overseas who are still finding it very easy to get work

[Colapop]

Feels like I'm working my arse off and getting nowhere! I know I'm working hard but the rates of pay here are just not what they are overseas.

[Motu]

I wonder how the work ethic thing looks with an age factor put into the graph.

I know as the oldest member of the team I take the fewest sickies....and only because I'm actually crook.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Erm, dude there was a story recently somewhere (cambell live maybe?) about how we work longer hours than ever before, yet we are near the lowest in the OECD, that is NOT a good thing!

the longer hours, or the being on the bottom of the OECD? because it is two different things, and I dont believe there is necessarily a causal relationship there.

In fact this whole thing smacks of lazy media and easy headlines.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Oh, and the fucking Government legislated a 6% productivity drop by giving workers an extra weeks holiday. What did they think would happen? work smarter? bullshit. As a small business owner, I can tell you what happened: I had to pick up the slack while my staff enjoyed their extra weeks holiday.

Yay Helen! Go Helen!

nice work.

[The Stranger]

Does their measure of loss of productivity really translate at all into a loss of work ethics?
One person working in a gold mine may be more productive (according to their measure) than one preson working in a banana mine, though they may well be working just as hard and have similar work ethics.

[The Stranger]

The productivity of workers in New Zealand has slumped to almost half that of workers in the United States.


Have they factored in the recent financial events in the States?
Bet their productivity/work ethics just took a HUGE hit.

[R6_kid]

If the Maoris worked as hard as Latinos do we'd leave America in our dust!

[Headbanger]

We haven't so much as lost our work ethic, It just moved to Aussie.....

[HenryDorsetCase]

Economically speaking, New Zealand is what it is and will always be what it will always be: an extraordinarily beautiful milk powder and woodchip factory.

I'm not entirely sure that the average low-wage worker can make much difference to that fact via personal enthusiasm.

And, yes. NZ's part of the South Pacific and will always reflect the cultural mores of this part of the world, which do tend to involve a lot of sitting on one's arse and having another Tui.

I have difficulty growing particularly exercised over any of the above, inasmuch as I quite enjoy being here. Some might use the words 'lassitude' and 'ennui' in describing the situation; I prefer 'peace' and 'quiet'.

:msn-wink:

we'd only use those words if we knew what they meant.

.............and Tui?

really?

not something good?, like, I dunno, a poo on a stick. (because poo on a stick is better than Tui....trust me on this)

[HenryDorsetCase]

Does their measure of loss of productivity really translate at all into a loss of work ethics?
One person working in a gold mine may be more productive (according to their measure) than one preson working in a banana mine, though they may well be working just as hard and have similar work ethics.


Can you get me a job in the banana mine*?








*assuming banana mine is code for "porn industry" (and if not, why not?)

[jrandom]

Mmm, bananas.

[davereid]

I have posted this before so apologies to those who have read it.

Poor productivity gemerally means poor (or corrupt) government, lack of capital, poor infrastructure, ....

To be productive you need a few things, off the top of my head I think..

- You need access to cheap capital (cheaper than your foreign competitor at least)

- You need to minimise waste, or output wasted feeding parasites

- You need stable government that doesnt change the rules all the time, and is not corrupt.

- You need to be able to put your plans into action quickly, without waiting for un-necessary government involvement.

Lets look at two examples.

You and I are both gravediggers, in adjacent towns. There is a plentiful market for our trade, as we have lots of elderly residents.

But, my town has a low tax (rates), easy-to comply style of government. Your town has a high tax, high compliance government.

After a year, we have both worked very hard, digging a grave every single working day, and we both have $20k. I pay my rates, and you pay yours. I now have $19K, as my tax rate is the same as Singapore. You have $10k, as you are taxed in new Zealand.

After 3 years of hard work, I have $30k more in the bank than you. I also enjoy a lower interest rate than you, so I can borrow more money.

I borrow $100k, add it to my $30k and buy a JCB digger.

I can now dig 4 graves a day. So now I am more productive, but I don't work as hard. And I make more money.

You on the other hand will take years to get your digger. And when you do, you will need a permit to use it. Which will take 18 months to get.

And then, just after you get your digger, the government will invoke the "no tracked vehicles Act' without warning.

You could have chosen a wheeled digger, but you didn't see the change coming.

Now you are f*cked, so I offer you a pay rise and a digger, if you come to my town.

And your council offers to save you by putting a levy on your fuel, so it can save the world from Chinas emissions.

[Forest]

hmmmm, yes I totally belive this after seeing the lengths staff go through to help you on my recent visit to the states, especially compared to the service you find here. last weekend I asked a big Island woman at the warehouse a question about something in her section, she scoffed as she raised herself from her seat and looked for an eighth of a second on the computer screen, said na! in a pissed off way and sat down....I notice this sort of thing a lot since my return and it is really bad, I feel like I OWE a shopkeeper something now if they do their job well......and do that little bit extra.

You went to the Warehouse and expected to receive good service?

Sounds like that's your problem right there.

[alanzs]

If the Maoris worked as hard as Latinos do we'd leave America in our dust!

If only we had a place to get a good burrito, tacos, enchilada or pollo con mole, we'd show the world! :woohoo:

[The Stranger]

You could also use your digger to dig up and rob old graves making even more money.

[MotoGirl]

Maybe it's declining because all our good people are buggering off to Australia? What kind of worker does that leave us with?

[jrandom]

Maybe it's declining because all our good people are buggering off to Australia? What kind of worker does that leave us with?

I thought you left KB.

[MotoGirl]

I thought you left KB.

I thought trolls lived under bridges? :stupid:

Been busy with other shit. What's your excuse?

[Bren]

I have worked in manufacturing and logistics for years now, and the feeling I get is that the good honest workers are covering the asses of the dropkicks and stoneheads who get away with almost everything knowing that when the shit hits the fan they can go and winge to their union who promptly make it fuckin hard for an employer to fire the said dropkick!!! Dont get me wrong, I dont mind people casually smoking during their weekends, but to have the audacity to go and have a session at lunchbreak or whatever really pisses me off. I know if I went down to the pub and had a beer at lunch then my head is on the block! Whats the friggin difference? Why have they made it so fucking hard to fire these losers?

[jrandom]

What's your excuse?

My excuse for being awesome?

Well, you may think that I do it by combining my enormous natural talent with almost superhuman dedication to the ideal of perfection, but I couldn't possibly comment.

[Howie]

Interesting thread this one on productivity, I was talking to a customer today who has just returned from visiting a few major factories in the USA, along the lines of GE, and GM electromotive divisons, and his comments to me were that apart from a lack of support of the workforce, we are ahead of them. As in demarcation of jobs is still alive and well in USA, and specialisation is the way they run businesses productively. He mention that for every 6-7 people at the coal face on the factory floor their is one support person directly attached to them to keep everything they need suppllied to them so that production down time is eliminated. So some of the gains in productivity seem to come from economies of scale and specialisation, which is hard to do in a smaller economy like NZ and by working smarter, and reducing non productive time by being better organised.

[The Pastor]

Does their measure of loss of productivity really translate at all into a loss of work ethics?
One person working in a gold mine may be more productive (according to their measure) than one preson working in a banana mine, though they may well be working just as hard and have similar work ethics.
idiot, bananas grow on trees not in dirty mines!

[firefighter]

You went to the Warehouse and expected to receive good service?

Sounds like that's your problem right there.

No, well, erm, maybe not good service but nothing as bad as a blatant scoff for asking for help and then a simple abrupt "na". It's just one example of many.

[terbang]

Tis just a couple of quiet islands in the Pacific. Nothing more.

[Forest]

No, well, erm, maybe not good service but nothing as bad as a blatant scoff for asking for help and then a simple abrupt "na". It's just one example of many.

I was just having a gentle dig.

Even the Warehouse shouldn't treat it's customers with contempt.

[Swoop]

...that apart from a lack of support of the workforce, we are ahead of them. As in demarcation of jobs is still alive and well in USA, and specialisation is the way they run businesses productively.
"Demarcation of jobs". Perhaps their workforce still retains the skills to do multiple things, making this demarcation quite necessary.
An example: NZ Carpenters.
Once upon a time they would do everything on a building site, from digging and laying the foundations, all the way to putting the roof on. Everything apart from the wiring and plumbing, of course.
Nowadays they hire teams to do foundations, roofing, gib-stopping, finishing, etc, etc.

NZ has simply "devolved" and "un-skilled" certain areas of the workforce.

[JATZ]

Maybe thats one of the reasons there is so many Asians/Indians/Vanuatuans(?) involved in seasonal work around the district.
Young Kiwi fella/fellaress is slackin off having a smoke/sittin down doing nothing when the foreign labour is getting on with the job, probly not demanding more pay than they're worth too.
BTW. Im not saying it's a good thing to have imported labour

BTW II. Yet another gem of a top tip from swoop

[Toaster]

Feels like I'm working my arse off and getting nowhere!

You been doing poll-dancing again mate??!!

[Robert Taylor]

N.Z is quickly losing it's rep as having hard working people....

6 October 2008
The productivity of workers in New Zealand has slumped to almost half that of workers in the United States.

A Department of Labour report out today shows productivity at the workplace is among the lowest in the OECD. The figures show New Zealand's GDP per hour worked has fallen sharply to just 56 percent of what workers in US produce.

Nearly all other OECD nations fare considerably better, with most other countries report their productivity is rising. The report says New Zealand is now in the unenviable position of having a large labour productivity gap.

It suggests one of the causes may be having less skilled people taking up lower paid jobs.


http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=91104&fm=psp,tst

hmmmm, yes I totally belive this after seeing the lengths staff go through to help you on my recent visit to the states, especially compared to the service you find here. last weekend I asked a big Island woman at the warehouse a question about something in her section, she scoffed as she raised herself from her seat and looked for an eighth of a second on the computer screen, said na! in a pissed off way and sat down....I notice this sort of thing a lot since my return and it is really bad, I feel like I OWE a shopkeeper something now if they do their job well......and do that little bit extra.

While we have a ''Government'' that has removed incentive to work hard and get ahead do you really wonder at it...........

[The Stranger]

An example: NZ Carpenters.
Once upon a time they would do everything on a building site, from digging and laying the foundations, all the way to putting the roof on. Everything apart from the wiring and plumbing, of course.
Nowadays they hire teams to do foundations, roofing, gib-stopping, finishing, etc, etc.

NZ has simply "devolved" and "un-skilled" certain areas of the workforce.

A pet peeve of mine.
As a carpenter and foreman for 12 years I saw exactly what you are talking about. I hated that change with a vengeance and resisted it at every turn. However, when times were/are tight (post share market crash etc) you had to adapt or die and I (reluctantly) have to admit, it was more profitable. Therein lies the rub, more profit=more productivity.

[Headbanger]

A pet peeve of mine.
As a carpenter and foreman for 12 years I saw exactly what you are talking about. I hated that change with a vengeance and resisted it at every turn. However, when times were/are tight (post share market crash etc) you had to adapt or die and I (reluctantly) have to admit, it was more profitable. Therein lies the rub, more profit=more productivity.

and on that note.

A mate of mine, qualified builder, a few years in the trade, all he knew how to do was frame up partitions for shops. Once the company he worked for downsized he had to leave the trade. Figured he wasn't going to retrain to do the same job, Now a firefighter....IN AUSSIE

The most recent large building site I spent a few months on the Foreman happened to be a super-skilled and experienced builder, spent his entire life building, yet he wasn't allowed to make any decisions off the cuff, anything and everything had to be referred to the engineers/architects, even a bit of flashing from where we removed the flagpole. The bizarre thing is they either never replied or replied with non-sense, and blatantly refused to visit the site to see just why the hell their bullshit made no sense. Project was months behind, over-run by millions. taxpayers money all of it.

Lastly, I make training available to all my crew,on-site and in training facilities, I push for more of it to be available, I provide money to get it done, incentives in the way of higher wages, Tell them the more skills they acquire the more valuable they are to the company we work for plus for the next company they work for .they don't give a shit, Just want to get through the day, get paid, buy some booze. Then get busted driving and we have an entire roster of unskilled people with little motivation and no way of getting to work.

[Naki Rat]

We haven't so much as lost our work ethic, It just moved to Aussie.....

A lot of truth in that comment I think.

During the construction of the Motunui synthetic petrol plant here in the 'Naki in the early 1980s the main contractor, Bechtel, arrived expecting a productivity factor for Kiwis of 1.18 (i.e. 1.18 Kiwis = 1 US worker). As construction progressed they found that the inverse was nearer the mark with Kiwis being more productive than their US equivalent. What a turn around if the 50% productivity claim is now true.

I would guess that a large proportion of the skilled tradesmen in particular that worked their way through the Think Big projects of that era are now scattered throughout Australia, SE Asia, Middle East, etc.

Skilled tradesmen, university graduates or just plain hardworking ambitious Kiwis - NZ's most valuable export :(

[alanzs]

When my wife came to the US, she got essentially the same job she had here but was paid about 50% more. When we returned here, she took essentially the same job and was, you guessed it, paid about 50% less.

How can we not expect the best and brightest to go elsewhere to expand their personal horizons? NZ needs to turn itself into a high wage earning country if they want to compete effectively in a world economy. How to do this, I don't know. :shit:

[Winston001]

Does their measure of loss of productivity really translate at all into a loss of work ethics?

One person working in a gold mine may be more productive (according to their measure) than one preson working in a banana mine, though they may well be working just as hard and have similar work ethics.

Good point. Just how do we reliably measure productivity? We'd need an economist to explain.

However we don't need an economist to point to the obvious indicator - our currency. In 1973 the NZ$ bought roughly one $US. By 1985 NZ$ bought US$0.39.

Recently we reached US$0.82 but today its about US$0.62. At a glance this looks like Kiwi production has jumped recently but in fact the US$ is on its way down, and is only being temporarily supported by a flight to safe currencies.

Meaningful production is the key. High value smart stuff.

What I'd like to see is our members of parliament talking about this sort of thing continuously and openly exploring the options. Instead they trade cheap shots about John Keys shares, Huluns paintings, Dover's urgent need to relieve himself..... None of that has anything to do with leading a nation and focusing the community on the future.

[vifferman]

idiot, bananas grow on trees not in dirty mines!
Idiot, bananas don't grow on trees (http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2005/09/08/1453046.htm?site=science/greatmomentsinscience). :Pokey:
It may look like a tree, but it is in fact just a tall herb, without the woody stem, bark, etc that a tree has.

[firefighter]

What I'd like to see is our members of parliament talking about this sort of thing continuously and openly exploring the options. Instead they trade cheap shots about John Keys shares, Huluns paintings, Dover's urgent need to relieve himself..... None of that has anything to do with leading a nation and focusing the community on the future.

What? How dare you expect polititians to spend their time thinking of the nation instead of aguing over pointless shit!

Imagine if you carried on the way politicians do at your job, I know i'd be retired very very quickly! ie. get the fuck out!
I remember watching a story on the politicians sleeping during the law making process in cabinet, and it was excused even by the media because of how tedious it all is.......are you fucken joking? We can't expect them on their salary of 100+k to stay awake at work!

I do strongly believe that if politicains put half the energy they put into intruding into each others personal lives as they did into the countrys real interests then we'd be a much stronger nation.

[Finn]

pay peanuts, get monkeys!!!

Or in NZ's case, you only need to pay monkey's peanuts.

[The Stranger]

I remember watching a story on the politicians sleeping during the law making process in cabinet, and it was excused even by the media because of how tedious it all is.......are you fucken joking? We can't expect them on their salary of 100+k to stay awake at work!



I think you will find that the press didd't make excuses, however they were threatened that they would be expelled from Parliment if they showed people sleeping again.

Just another example klarke's version of democracy in action.

[firefighter]

I think you will find that the press didd't make excuses, however they were threatened that they would be expelled from Parliment if they showed people sleeping again.

Just another example klarke's version of democracy in action.

yes I remember that, but they did stop having a dig very quickly, it seemed like they didn't really make as big a deal out of it as they really should have, maybe that's just how I saw it, and yes, good old Helen Stalin....er Clarke

[slofox]

Well personally I am a lazy fucking bastard and always have been......all of my working life I have only worked fifty hours a week - as a teacher, a horticulturist and now as a 'company director'........every time I add up working hours for the census, I get around fifty a week on average and have done for nigh on forty years...........so I doubt I help the overall productivity average....just look at the number of posts I stick in here.......!!!!

[Winston001]

Well personally I am a lazy fucking bastard and always have been......all of my working life I have only worked fifty hours a week - as a teacher, a horticulturist and now as a 'company director'........every time I add up working hours for the census, I get around fifty a week on average and have done for nigh on forty years...........so I doubt I help the overall productivity average....just look at the number of posts I stick in here.......!!!!

Yes you should feel very guilty :angry2: Fortunately when the revolution comes you'll be put down on the shop floor to produce all of the factory's widgets while the formerly oppressed workers have a well earned rest. :woohoo:

[Winston001]

Anyway, back on topic. I don't think Kiwis have lost the work ethic but there is a disconnect between working and feeling as though you are doing something meaningful.

Work and effort does not equal production. I remember watching a friend dig a short drain in his back yard. It took him half a day. Agreed, it was perfect.....but it was only 3m long, 200mm deep....and I'd have done it in half an hour.

[Mental Trousers]

It's 11:30pm and I've been logged into the servers at work for almost 3 hours to sort out 1 that had a melt down. I could've left it until tomorrow .... but nah.

How's that for work ethic?

[Dave Lobster]

Speaking of work ethic.. I did a quick count up round our office today.

The only people of 'sick' were Kiwis. 100% attendance from the foreigners. (Out of about twenty people. Half Kiwi, half foreign)

[slofox]

Work and effort does not equal production. I remember watching a friend dig a short drain in his back yard. It took him half a day. Agreed, it was perfect.....but it was only 3m long, 200mm deep....and I'd have done it in half an hour.

Next time I need a drain dug out Winston, I will give you a holler.....:yes:

(oh and by the way, "company director" is a courtesy title.....the company has one director - me - and no employees......I don't even employ myself, I just come in here to get online at KB.......) :whistle: