Running hotter on 98

[MrMelon]

I filled up with a tank of mobil 98 last night for the first time, and the bike seems to be running quite a bit hotter since then. Normally the temp gauge shows 70-80 degrees, but last night it was showing 90 to slightly over 100 when I was sitting in traffic for a bit

Is this normal, or is something going to go bang pretty soon? :(

The bike seems to be running much better on 98 though.. When running on 96 it had a slight hesitation at around 10,500rpm, but it was pulling hard till 14k last night. *shrug*

I might book it in for a service to get everything checked out this week.. I've got no idea what kind of maintenance I need to do on the bike or what fluids etc need to be checked.

[Coldkiwi]

probably something to do with the woeful quality of Mobil's petrol if anything.

try a tank of nice clean Gull 97 :) and see if it still does it

[curious george]

For knowledge base stuff, www.rgv250.co.uk can be good, as well as the aprillia site. There is alot of opinion on 2-strokes (read-bollocks), but someone like (I think it is dave?) sounds like he knows what he's doing.
If there are enough of us here, do we know enough to stard our own K.B? Would that be wanted?haha.
Most people seem to want to run on 98. MIne goes OK on both.
I think for track days 98 worked better?

[MrMelon]

It was just low on coolant.. that's why it was running hot :O

I didn't realise you had to take one of the fairings off to top the coolant up.

[curious george]

Hahahaha The old bike needs coolant trick.....Catches a few people out*meep*
If you have just brought the bike, it may be prudent to change everything.
It wont cost much, but you will learn heaps about the bike.
Coolant, gearbox oil (dont use car stuff......) brake fluid, the oil used for combustion, air in the tyres.......
Note the colour of the stuff and you may have an idea about it's previous life.
For no particular reason I use Motul gearbox oil and brake fluid.

[MrMelon]

Gah it's dong it again!

My temperature when cruising around is getting to 90 degrees, and it went up to just over 100 while stuck in traffic for 5 mins at a roundabout.. It's been running at 60-70 degrees since I got it serviced and the coolant topped up, so I ripped the fairings off again last night to check, and the coolant's still full..

Anyone got any ideas what could be causing this?

Thermostat not opening or water pump not going maybe?

[750Y]

CK wrote: "try a tank of nice clean Gull 97 and see if it still does it"

it's also the only fuel which doesn't come through the filthy marsden point pipeline & the octane rating is around 99.

[MrMelon]

I'm in wellington so that's out of the question.

It's been running fine for a month or 2 on bp and mobil 98 now.. it's just the cooling system that i'm worried about.. probably should have started a new topic really.

If only I could read that japanese service manual i've got :O

[jrandom]

Originally posted by MrMelon
Gah it's dong it again!

*now* who thinks race rep two-strokes are cool, eh? :p

You want a nice GN250, you do. Won't get no nasty cooling problems on one-a them. Get rid of that nasty TZR before it causes you any more trouble. In fact, I'm feeling charitable today, so I'll take it myself without even charging you for shipping costs. And that's cutting me own throat.

(ahem)

:D

[MrMelon]

Haha, biatch :P

I've done 5000kms on it since I got it without any serious problems, and the current engine has been 20,000km's since it was last rebuilt, so I spose I can start to expect a few troubles until I get the rings done or whatever :/

But anyway, why's it running hot!? (and no I'm not giving it away :P)

[merv]

Originally posted by MrMelon
Gah it's dong it again!

My temperature when cruising around is getting to 90 degrees, and it went up to just over 100 while stuck in traffic for 5 mins at a roundabout.. It's been running at 60-70 degrees since I got it serviced and the coolant topped up, so I ripped the fairings off again last night to check, and the coolant's still full..

Anyone got any ideas what could be causing this?

Thermostat not opening or water pump not going maybe?

Usually thermostats fail safe i.e. open, so generally engines run too cool then. Too hot while stuck in traffic - does that model have an electric fan and is it coming on like it should?

You talked of lack of fluid in an earlier post - it hasn't blown a gasket somewhere has it? I'm wondering if you are getting air into the system from the engine. If so it would keep doing that and each time you check it cold the water level will have dropped yet you say the level is OK now. Another sign of gasket failure is the overflow tank filling up if the system is being pressurised by the engine.

Temperature sender unit or gauge failure are another possibility and its not really frying at all, but this is less likely.

You just got to troubleshoot all these things.

[Jackrat]

OK,It,s a hell of a long time since I owned a two stroke BUT.
Clean your exhaust baffles.Cheak your plug gaps,see if a cooler spark plug is available,
I have a mate that got a manual sent from Italy for his Benelli.
You can guess what langage it was in.Hahahaha :angry2: :o

[merv]

p.s. what I should have added too is you need to know what temperature the engine should be running at. Most of what I have owned don't have actual temp numbers on the gauge but I know that with a pressurised system, like up to 13 psi, mostly they would have thermostats that open around 80 - 85 degrees, normal temp would be about 90. They can run easily to 100 and up to about 110 - 115 is when they are said to be hot and 120 is frying i.e. boiling.

I haven't owned a watercooled 2 stroke so can't really comment on whether 90 is OK for that or not but as I said above you need to find out what the correct temp should be. When it was running 60 - 70 you may have had a stuck thermsostat as that is really cool for most engines.

[MrMelon]

There was a lack of fluid earlier on, but I think that must've been because the previous owner just never checked or topped up the coolant. I got that sorted a few months ago.

The red on the temperature gauge is at about 120 degrees, and it's never really got anywhere near that. There's no fan on the radiator, so I spose it's understandable that it would heat up when there's no air passing through, and it gets back to 90 degrees fairly quickly when I get up to 50km/h+ again. From what I could see in the manual, the thermostat is set to open at about 67 degrees.

I took the cans off last night because one of them's rattling like a bitch, but they seemed fine apart from that.

If the overflow tank was filling up, wouldn't the level of coolant be lower once the bike had cooled down again?

[jrandom]

Originally posted by MrMelon
The red on the temperature gauge is at about 120 degrees, and it's never really got anywhere near that. There's no fan on the radiator, so I spose it's understandable that it would heat up when there's no air passing through

Um. Well, then, I don't want to be flippant, but what precisely are you worrying about?

If you *do* really want data on expected operating temperatures (and that would be understandable given that you want your baby in tiptop shape and all) why not just find a good two-stroke mechanic around town, have a chat and possibly (le horreur!) pay him for an hour's work to check the bike over...?

Or bribe a Japanese mate to translate the shop manual for you :D

[MrMelon]

Originally posted by jrandom
Um. Well, then, I don't want to be flippant, but what precisely are you worrying about?

If you *do* really want data on expected operating temperatures (and that would be understandable given that you want your baby in tiptop shape and all) why not just find a good two-stroke mechanic around town, have a chat and possibly (le horreur!) pay him for an hour's work to check the bike over...?

Or bribe a Japanese mate to translate the shop manual for you :D

Well I spose i'm a bit worried since the average temp has increased by 20-30 degrees in the last week or so, and there was this about rgv250's, but I don't know if it's the same with tzr's.


from rgv250.co.uk
Warming up

Always warm the engine up properly before subjecting it to any load, ideally it should run at 55-65 degree's. You will need a after market temp gauge to tell but if the temp rises above 90 degree's when riding switch off the engine as serious damage is on it's way.  Warm the bike by blipping the throttle but keeping below about 6,000 rpm for a few minutes. Not recommended for early morning if you want to keep the neighbours happy.



 

[SPman]

Originally posted by jrandom
And that's cutting me own throat.

(ahem)

:D

Your last name's not Dibbler, is it?

 

[jrandom]

Originally posted by SPman
Your last name's not Dibbler, is it?

That's *Mr* Dibbler to you. And it's pronounced 'Throatwobbler Mangrove'.

[Sheep Dags]

glenn my nsr rarely goes above 60 degrees unless im sitting in traffic... thats cause the radiator needs air to pass through it to cool it down, plus sitting right behind a car's exhaust is bound to push the temp up.. i've got right up to 80 degrees sitting in traffic which is weird for my bike but once i get a bit of open space it cools back down...

in fact, ringing the nuts out of it got my temp down to as low as 50 cause of the 160kmh winds passing through it.

but yea, didn't get above 60 the whole way from auckland to kk and back...

but shit man you're always going on about how you go over redline and shit the whole time... i mean i don't know that much about bikes but it is a red line for a reason!

[MrMelon]

Haha, I hardly ever take it past 12k.. i've only had it to 13k once or twice, but you've gotta give it a blast every now and then :D

I'll have another play with it when I get home tonight and see if there's anything else I can see that'd be interfering with the cooling.

[Dave]

If your radiator doesn't have a fan fitted, Then there is nothing to stop the bike overheating if it idles for too long, I would suggest if the traffic is sooo slow that the bike gets too hot. Shut off the engine and walk the bike along with your feet until you need to go again.

( the radiator fan on my GSXR400 had a 115 degree switch from new)

[James Deuce]

Theoretically your engine should run slightly cooler if anything on higher octane fuel due to improved fuel combustion. I used to have an RC30 that I went to umpteen track days on and it ran much cooler on AvGas (100 octane), so much so that I had to duct tape the radiator in winter to get up to operating temperature. Too cool is just as bad as too hot as the engine parts won't be operating at their correct tolerances.

Like other people have said, I think your problem is that the coolant got low enough to develop an air block. It would be a good idea to drain and flush the radiator and cooling system. Make sure you add coolant and water slowly and rock the bike from side to side during the refill process so that any air is flushed out.

Good Luck!

palef

[marty]

try running a slightly cooler plug - what is in there at the moment? i run NGK BPR9EVX, and have trouble getting my temp over 55, although i don't have too many slow motorway trips.....those are the factory recomended ones.

does the 98 really make that much difference to performance?

[merv]

Originally posted by MrMelon
Gah it's dong it again!

My temperature when cruising around is getting to 90 degrees, and it went up to just over 100 while stuck in traffic for 5 mins at a roundabout.. It's been running at 60-70 degrees since I got it serviced and the coolant topped up, so I ripped the fairings off again last night to check, and the coolant's still full..

Anyone got any ideas what could be causing this?

Thermostat not opening or water pump not going maybe?

I've just re-read this message you posted and I am a bit baffled. Was it running at 90 deg until you had it serviced and now its OK running at only 60 - 70 or was it OK until you got it serviced and now its running at 90?

If it started after the service and when you started using 98 octane you can eliminate the fuel by going back to what you used to use. Then if its still no good you have to figure out what else has been changed since. What got touched when it was serviced? Still to change the temp by 20 deg something major has happened - like leaner jetting or something, or as has been said before air in the system or check the plugs. Usually air will work its way out though and drain coolant from the overflow each time the engine cools down and you have said the levels are OK now.

I'm running out of ideas.

[MrMelon]

Sorry, that wasn't the clearest of posts, and I'm sure the fuel I'm using has nothing to do with it.

I've been using 98 for the last 3 months.

About 2 months ago I took the bike in to get serviced, as it was running at 90-100 degrees. The shop checked it out, and found there was next to no coolant in the bike and said they flushed the system and topped it up. They also changed the plugs, but I'm not sure what they are. It ran fine at 60-70 degrees for the next month and a half.

Just in the last week the temperature has gone from the usual 60-70 degrees to 80-100 degrees. Cruising at 100km/h the temp sits at 80, but if I open it up for more than a few seconds, the temperature will climb up to 90-95 fairly quickly.

If I sit in traffic it'll get up to about 100 degrees, and go back down to 90 or so when I start getting some decent speed up again.

I'm going to try and flush the coolant system tonight to try and get rid of any air pockets that might be in there that could be stopping it from working properly (any tips on doing that anyone? :P)

[MrMelon]

Fixed it.. looks like there was an air pocket in the cooling system somewhere.

Went for a big thrash and didnt get the temp above 70 deg.

[Redstar]

your right that the water level in the header tank is lower when cold as the contracting water is sucked back.
Is it throwing water out the overflow.
when hot. worth checking the rad cap seal. if you start from cold and see bubbles in the neck of the rad with the cap off as it heats then you have blown the Head gasket.

if you have milk in the crank oil you have most certainly done so.
when you top it up you need a 30% anti freeze mix not just tap water! anti freeze has a higher boiling point and keeps things cooler and lubricants for the pump,and anti corrosive chemicals its more important in the summer than the winter they should rename it "water conditioner" as anti freeze implies protection for iceing. you can get a co2 test done on the water which if indicates carbon hydrates in the water indicates a head gasket problem.
pressurised systems increases the boiling set point like in atmosphere water boils at 100c but when pressurised to the system does not boil until much higher temperatures.

I have done 30,000klms and never needed to top up the water at all. but now I should change the coolent.
Head gasket or radiator cap,or thermostat. hope its not the first one!

[Redstar]

your right that the water level in the header tank is lower when cold as the contracting water is sucked back.
Is it throwing water out the overflow.
when hot. worth checking the rad cap seal. if you start from cold and see bubbles in the neck of the rad with the cap off as it heats then you have blown the Head gasket.

if you have milk in the crank oil you have most certainly done so.
when you top it up you need a 30% anti freeze mix not just tap water! anti freeze has a higher boiling point and keeps things cooler and lubricants for the pump,and anti corrosive chemicals its more important in the summer than the winter they should rename it "water conditioner" as anti freeze implies protection for iceing. you can get a co2 test done on the water which if indicates carbon hydrates in the water indicates a head gasket problem.
pressurised systems increases the boiling set point like in atmosphere water boils at 100c but when pressurised to the system does not boil until much higher temperatures.

I have done 30,000klms and never needed to top up the water at all. but now I should change the coolent.
Head gasket or radiator cap,or thermostat. hope its not the first one!

[merv]

Originally posted by MrMelon
Fixed it.. looks like there was an air pocket in the cooling system somewhere.

Went for a big thrash and didnt get the temp above 70 deg.

Good to hear you found it.