True Production Racing series

[Shaun]

I have completed a deal to BUY 20 NEW Units ( Brand?) To be announced at a later date.

These bikes, will use a after market muffler, and 2 sets of tyres ( Continental only) per national meeting.

Moto-Dynamix will be transporting to all meetings, and maintaining them, TO STOP ANY CHEATING:shit:

I will be leasing them out per event during the winter series and club days Track days etc, and leasing them a package deal to do the NZ Champiopnships.

Nz Championship rounds will cost for the entire series $5000 ONLY

That inclused 2 sets of Tyres and Petrol

You will be signing a Legal binding contract, re Accidents, You bend it, you pay to mend it, Moto Dynamix does the mending.

More to come in a Month from Now!

[jrandom]

'Production' racing? This is obviously just a conspiracy to lower New Zealand's standards, attack high-tech research and development, and plunge us into further economic recession via the use of inferior stock suspension. Racers will undoubtedly die left right and center should this irresponsible plan go ahead. This is what comes of leaving a Labour government in power for so long.

:lol:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Hope everyone gets behind it.

Let's see who really is fast!!

Pete

[steveyb]

Fingers crossed that NZers will learn quickly that this is the way to go racing.

Why bother owning, maintaining, fixing, tuning, carting, cleaning, fixing again, your own bike when you can buy what you really want, which is to RIDE AND RACE.

On the face of it this would be a great step for the young rider who has spent a year or two with Moto Academy NZ to step up to larger bikes and then into the bigger show of Supersport/Superbike.

Get behind it and lets get our sport into the 21st century.


Cheers all and good on ya Shaun.

Steve
www.motoacademy.co.nz

[Shaun]

'Production' racing? This is obviously just a conspiracy to lower New Zealand's standards, attack high-tech research and development, and plunge us into further economic recession via the use of inferior stock suspension. Racers will undoubtedly die left right and center should this irresponsible plan go ahead. This is what comes of leaving a Labour government in power for so long.

:lol:




LMAO Thanks for that

[Robert Taylor]

'Production' racing? This is obviously just a conspiracy to lower New Zealand's standards, attack high-tech research and development, and plunge us into further economic recession via the use of inferior stock suspension. Racers will undoubtedly die left right and center should this irresponsible plan go ahead. This is what comes of leaving a Labour government in power for so long.

:lol:

Actually its your flippancy that is mostly inferior! This has been broadly tried before ( SV650s ) and didnt recieve enough support, for whatever reasons. But in all sincerity I wish this well and its certainly bold and ( economically )brave. If it works out then it will also effectively be a stepping stone to other classes. If it increases road race numbers then that is a good thing. ( All the more reason for tax cuts and stimulating the economy, which this venture arguably is ) Credit where credit is due.

[tri boy]

Outstanding commitment from yourself towards the sport that you have dedicated yourself to.
All the best for the future mate. :first::first::first:

[ArcherWC]

would suspension be modified as per rider weight etc?

[scrivy]

What size bike Shaun?
Looking for sponsors?

[scrivy]

These bikes, will use a after market muffler, and 2 sets of tyres ( Continental only) per national meeting.


Muffler each meeting????? :no: Why don't you upgrade to a better muffler......... :laugh:

[steveyb]

Muffler each meeting????? :no: Why don't you upgrade to a better muffler......... :laugh:

You're naughty!!!

[GSVR]

Sounds good $5000 wouldn't even cover the aftermarket bits and prep needed to get a Protwin ready for the nationals. Then theres the cost of tyres and transport on top of that.

[FROSTY]

20 bikes means fullish grids at every meeting.
-Something I wondered Shaun. What if someone already owns one of these bikes or chooses to buy one rather than leasing?

[sidecar bob]

20 bikes means fullish grids at every meeting.
-Something I wondered Shaun. What if someone already owns one of these bikes or chooses to buy one rather than leasing?

If i read post 1 correctly then that individual will need to play in another sandpit.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

wow, cheap racing!! level playing field
im there!

[Shaun]

would suspension be modified as per rider weight etc?




Fork Springs and oil Change only in the front end!

Rear spring for rider weight

All using the same brand Shock- As they come direct from the Factory STD!

[Robert Taylor]

wow, cheap racing!! level playing field
im there!

Not quite, and I dont say this in any way that means to steal Shauns fire. Archer bought up a good point about suspension alterations for heavier riders, who would indeed be disadvantaged, as would very light riders. And its not a true production series because its one make. There will be fish-hooks / problems and I cannot see how it will pay its way and make a profit, even only in as much as Shaun / any other financial partners not having to dip into their own pockets any further.
If anything it could in part be a ''home'' for those who either deride production racing ( as it neccessarily is ) or simply cannot afford to partake. That is always in part why other formula exist!!! It certainly will emphasise the limitations of production road going bikes.
But that is not to take anything away from the author of this proposal, if he can make it work and attract more people to this great sport then in all fairness I can only wish it the very best.

[Robert Taylor]

Fork Springs and oil Change only in the front end!

Rear spring for rider weight

All using the same brand Shock- As they come direct from the Factory STD!

I see posts overlapped so that answers that question very well

[GSVR]

The best thing a heavier rider could do if they where committed was go on a diet. After all even if the suspension was made stiffer they would still be dissavantaged by the power to weight ratio.

For a lighter rider any dissavantage would help to balance out the advantage of having a better power to weight ratio.

How does one get on in an endurance race if your co-rider is a fat bastard and your a midget?

[Robert Taylor]

The best thing a heavier rider could do if they where committed was go on a diet. After all even if the suspension was made stiffer they would still be dissavantaged by the power to weight ratio.

For a lighter rider any dissavantage would help to balance out the advantage of having a better power to weight ratio.

How does one get on in an endurance race if you co rider is a fat bastard and your a midget?

And there are light guys who would like to put on weight but their metabolism wont let it happen. Your statement is a bit unfair to those that are naturally big boned and tall. That is why at minimum spring options be available to level the playing field. Something that is dear to your heart.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

Best we judge the proposal when all details are announced, aplications invited. But so far, sounds good :2thumbsup

[Shaun]

Best we judge the proposal when all details are announced, aplications invited. But so far, sounds good :2thumbsup


Thanks.

I have committed $250 K to this buisness so far, and over the next 6 weeks, another $50K is going in to it:gob: I got the money easy, so if it turns pear shape on me ( Which I knw it will not!) O well, back to working for the man again! Pounds to Dollars is great!

I thought it was time to PUT up or SHUT up:woohoo:

And going fast and doing skids on biks is still my bigest passion in life, apart from my Wife and Daughter and step kids FAMILY

[Shaun]

20 bikes means fullish grids at every meeting.
-Something I wondered Shaun. What if someone already owns one of these bikes or chooses to buy one rather than leasing?




It Might be possible to BUY one BUT


Moto-Dynamix would need to have it in there possesion, to Gaurantee NO Cheating

So best to just lease one of my packages, then it is 100% a fair fight- all is even.

[Shaun]

What size bike Shaun?
Looking for sponsors?





Size and Brand will be announced next month mate, when all details are finalised.

Re Sponsors

When the full detailed plan is released later next month, it will be done with a logo promotion mock fairing spaces for sale for x amount of $ for x amount f area.

The one Major company I have behind me with this project, is an International company, so I believe the grid is going to be pretty full of Foriegn riders alone, let alone the Kiwi group! from the media tool with this Int Company.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Very interested to hear what kind of bikes you have lined up for this

[GSVR]

And there are light guys who would like to put on weight but their metabolism wont let it happen. Your statement is a bit unfair to those that are naturally big boned and tall. That is why at minimum spring options be available to level the playing field. Something that is dear to your heart.

Who knows maybe the bikes will suit heavier/taller riders.

You didn't answer the most important part of my post!

What would you do to set up a bike for an event where a very light rider and a very heavy rider had to share the same bike?

this actually happens club racing too when riders share a bike by entering into different classes.

[roogazza]

Hope everyone gets behind it.

Let's see who really is fast!!

Pete

+1 on that Pete. Production racing is what got NZ racing on the map.
I'm sure its the way forward, if we are ever to get back where we were years ago ? I have very fond memories of 30 (and more) RD Yamahas going at it !

Really hope this works for you Shaun. Gaz.

[wharfy]

I hope this takes off, "one class" racing is a very good way of identifying and developing talent. It is also a place where people of modest ability and means (like myself) can enter a competition. I for one will be VERY interested in this !!!

[Tony.OK]

I'm all for it................as long as its not another class altogether that reduces race laps even further.
Good luck Shaun:niceone:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Not quite, and I dont say this in any way that means to steal Shauns fire. Archer bought up a good point about suspension alterations for heavier riders, who would indeed be disadvantaged, as would very light riders. And its not a true production series because its one make. There will be fish-hooks / problems and I cannot see how it will pay its way and make a profit, even only in as much as Shaun / any other financial partners not having to dip into their own pockets any further.
If anything it could in part be a ''home'' for those who either deride production racing ( as it neccessarily is ) or simply cannot afford to partake. That is always in part why other formula exist!!! It certainly will emphasise the limitations of production road going bikes.
But that is not to take anything away from the author of this proposal, if he can make it work and attract more people to this great sport then in all fairness I can only wish it the very best.

I think you're missing the main point of 'Production Racing' or 'One Make Racing'. That being the ability of ANY rider to ride what they HAVE at their disposal better than the next person. Sure bigger riders suffer a power to weight disadvantage...but smaller riders struggle to change direction as quickly as a bigger built rider. All swings and roundabouts.

And the bit about "It certainly will emphasise the limitations of production going road bikes"?????

So fucking what? It's not about how good the bikes are as race bikes. It's about how good someone can ride the thing.

I raced 883 Harleys for a couple of years. And as a race bike...they made great boat anchors. BUT...the racing was fantastic fun and hard work. The cream still rose to the top...Brett Richmond...Bruce Anstey...Simon Turner and the late Robert Holden. It matters not what you're racing. You could have 30 Honda RS250's and it'd be the same. Fun and frantic.


Who knows maybe the bikes will suit heavier/taller riders.

You didn't answer the most important part of my post!

What would you do to set up a bike for an event where a very light rider and a very heavy rider had to share the same bike?

this actually happens club racing too when riders share a bike by entering into different classes.

Set the bike up as well as you can within the limitations it has. Then ride around whatever limitations you can't remove through setup.


+1 on that Pete. Production racing is what got NZ racing on the map.
I'm sure its the way forward, if we are ever to get back where we were years ago ? I have very fond memories of 30 (and more) RD Yamahas going at it !

Really hope this works for you Shaun. Gaz.

Fucking oath it is.

James Toseland came from GB500 racing did he not? Could you imagine a worse 'race bike'? (Ok...apart from an 883)See point 1!!!

[Robert Taylor]

I think you're missing the main point of 'Production Racing' or 'One Make Racing'. That being the ability of ANY rider to ride what they HAVE at their disposal better than the next person. Sure bigger riders suffer a power to weight disadvantage...but smaller riders struggle to change direction as quickly as a bigger built rider. All swings and roundabouts.

And the bit about "It certainly will emphasise the limitations of production going road bikes"?????

So fucking what? It's not about how good the bikes are as race bikes. It's about how good someone can ride the thing.

I raced 883 Harleys for a couple of years. And as a race bike...they made great boat anchors. BUT...the racing was fantastic fun and hard work. The cream still rose to the top...Brett Richmond...Bruce Anstey...Simon Turner and the late Robert Holden. It matters not what you're racing. You could have 30 Honda RS250's and it'd be the same. Fun and frantic.



Set the bike up as well as you can within the limitations it has. Then ride around whatever limitations you can't remove through setup.



Fucking oath it is.

James Toseland came from GB500 racing did he not? Could you imagine a worse 'race bike'? (Ok...apart from an 883)See point 1!!!

I stand by what I said without the need for such recourse of emotion and expletives that so many of us sink into these days. It will expose the limitations and such limitations will be more evident than in the simpler times of decades past. But I also re-emphasise that I wished the concept well. I have little time for the authors habituation for explosive outbursts but I do genuinely wish him well with this.

[Cleve]

I have little time for the authors habituation for explosive outbursts but I do genuinely wish him well with this.

Leave his reproductive techniques out of this Robert...

[Crasherfromwayback]

I stand by what I said without the need for such recourse of emotion and expletives that so many of us sink into these days. It will expose the limitations and such limitations will be more evident than in the simpler times of decades past. But I also re-emphasise that I wished the concept well. I have little time for the authors habituation for explosive outbursts but I do genuinely wish him well with this.

Mate...you need to relaxe and get a life outside of motorcycle suspension.

You say this simply because I said "So fucking what"?

You've been round racers and mechanics for a long time (obviously)...so why get your panties in a bunch over that? That's the type of language you should be used to. Or is it because these 'proddie bikes' won't be allowed to run 'Ohlins'?

[Toast]

Watching with interest :)

[roadracingoldfart]

James Toseland came from GB500 racing did he not? Could you imagine a worse 'race bike'? (Ok...apart from an 883)See point 1!!!

Fark Pete !!! i raced a GB 400 and a bloody MVX250 :eek: so i can tell you all about dodgy race mules lol.
One was slow as a wet weed and the other was fast enough but you never knew when it was going to drop the rear cylinder lol. (the mystery was part of the fun :shit: ).


As for Robert Taylor .... We all used to have a truck load of fun racing fast ill mannered beasts that didnt handle at all. That was what gave me for one the biggest rush of competition.

Good plan Shaun , i hope it works for you (as im sure it will) and lets all celebrate it as a welcome return to proddie race classes, the backbone of N.Z.racing from days past.

Paul.

[Robert Taylor]

Mate...you need to relaxe and get a life outside of motorcycle suspension.

You say this simply because I said "So fucking what"?

You've been round racers and mechanics for a long time (obviously)...so why get your panties in a bunch over that? That's the type of language you should be used to. Or is it because these 'proddie bikes' won't be allowed to run 'Ohlins'?

Not at all, hey I use that language from time to time in my own workshop but I am also very measured where I simply do not use it. I choose not to use it in writing, and much less so in a public forum. that does not in any way qualify me as a prude!!!
No criticism to you but I notice generally that there are now a lot of people in society who care not where they use it, anywhere, anytime. Frankly that is sad that our collective standards have degenerated so much.

What you said was ( in my humble opinion ) a written equivalent of shouting and in response to opinions that I expressed without malice or agenda.

As for the intent of the last sentence frankly its not an issue that I have considered at all, at present we have plenty of other fish to fry and are not keeping up with that. Shaun can and is entitled to beat to his own drum on that score anyway.
And yes I do need to get a life beyond the crazy hours that I do. Employing sataff has made the workload even busier. It wont be too long before we are looking for a young committed and energetic trainee.

[Ivan]

I think its a great Idea Shaun...

And I also cant see why alot off people are jumping down Roberts throat if you actually take time to read what he is saying he is stating alot of facts for people like myself to learn from I enjoy reading posts by guys like Robert as you learn from them other than most KB threads that are all talk and no actual facts behind em my 2 cents now I shall leave and return in a month to see what the bikes etc are

Ivan

[Crasherfromwayback]

Not at all, hey I use that language from time to time in my own workshop but I am also very measured where I simply do not use it. I choose not to use it in writing, and much less so in a public forum. that does not in any way qualify me as a prude!!!
No criticism to you but I notice generally that there are now a lot of people in society who care not where they use it, anywhere, anytime. Frankly that is sad that our collective standards have degenerated so much.

What you said was ( in my humble opinion ) a written equivalent of shouting and in response to opinions that I expressed without malice or agenda.

As for the intent of the last sentence frankly its not an issue that I have considered at all, at present we have plenty of other fish to fry and are not keeping up with that. Shaun can and is entitled to beat to his own drum on that score anyway.
And yes I do need to get a life beyond the crazy hours that I do. Employing sataff has made the workload even busier. It wont be too long before we are looking for a young committed and energetic trainee.

I rest my case Robert. This site (as far as I know)...is about helping (where/if we can), criticizing...if that's your opinion...and having no blinkers. You've got blinkers on. Any subject that comes up regarding racing comes back to "if only you had Ohlins". Or subliminal messages thereof.

This thread is about a good thing Shaun is doing...a good thing for NZ road racing. Go and bash your Ohlins bible elsewhere.

[BIGBOSSMAN]

would suspension be modified as per rider weight etc?

I saw you scoffing a bloody Big Ben MIGHTY MURPH Mince N'Cheese pie on the Coro GP this morning Brian - you bloody well have to change your diet if you're going to metamorphosise into Dani Pedrosa any time soon fella :oi-grr:

[Robert Taylor]

I rest my case Robert. This site (as far as I know)...is about helping (where/if we can), criticizing...if that's your opinion...and having no blinkers. You've got blinkers on. Any subject that comes up regarding racing comes back to "if only you had Ohlins". Or subliminal messages thereof.

This thread is about a good thing Shaun is doing...a good thing for NZ road racing. Go and bash your Ohlins bible elsewhere.

Dont forget the Race Tech religion either! BTW ( correct me if I am wrong ) I dont think I mentioned the Ohlins product name until someone else did.

[AllanB]

It wont be too long before we are looking for a young committed and energetic trainee.


Ah yes - that reminds me of this one time at band camp........:clap:



My main question about all this is simple:

What colours are the bikes????????????

[Crasherfromwayback]

Dont forget the Race Tech religion either! BTW ( correct me if I am wrong ) I dont think I mentioned the Ohlins product name until someone else did.

Don't really need to with your 'Product logo' at the bottom of every post you make I guess.

Once again...why don't you ask the owners of the site if you can have an 'Ohlins only' bit? They may well link every question about sports bikes to you if you're lucky.

While I have the utmost respect for the work you do, and the knowledge you have regarding all things suspension...I'm getting more than a little tired of seeing you turn every single thread into a discussion of such.

[scrivy]

I'm sniffing either Triumphs or Hyosongs..............

What say Shaun?? Has to be one or the other........??????

As for altering suspension. In all my years racing sidecars, I've changed my suspension I think 3 times?! I know the LCR boys do it forever, dry, wet, intermediate....... etc, etc......
Oh how I love to race a bucking pile of shite and relaxing in the pits afterwards. Not tweaking/meddling non stop and racing a twicthy worm.....
The spectators like the bucking too!

All for your idea Shaun - you're a brave man in todays climate!! Will be great also to see riders having to out ride their steeds handling!! (No offence to Robert either - I love the out of controlled action.....)

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'm sniffing either Triumphs or Hyosongs..............

What say Shaun?? Has to be one or the other........??????

As for altering suspension. In all my years racing sidecars, I've changed my suspension I think 3 times?! I know the LCR boys do it forever, dry, wet, intermediate....... etc, etc......
Oh how I love to race a bucking pile of shite and relaxing in the pits afterwards. Not tweaking/meddling non stop and racing a twicthy worm.....
The spectators like the bucking too!

All for your idea Shaun - you're a brave man in todays climate!! Will be great also to see riders having to out ride their steeds handling!! (No offence to Robert either - I love the out of controlled action.....)

If it's Triumphs...I'd just about say I'd lick my own balls. Triumph UK may well get behind it...but Triumph NZ???? Tui.

[Robert Taylor]

Don't really need to with your 'Product logo' at the bottom of every post you make I guess.

Once again...why don't you ask the owners of the site if you can have an 'Ohlins only' bit? They may well link every question about sports bikes to you if you're lucky.

While I have the utmost respect for the work you do, and the knowledge you have regarding all things suspension...I'm getting more than a little tired of seeing you turn every single thread into a discussion of such.

Thats your opinion that you are entitled to, but I am certainly not tired of helping people. Yes, I profit from it but also ( and in fairness so does Shaun ) give a lot of people a lot of help with neither asking for nor expecting payment.
As for product logos yes your honour I am very guilty of that, but I have company, so please make sure they are sent along for beheading as well.
This thread was started by Shaun, I was quick to give him credit for this venture even though Im a polar opposite to him and disagree with him on many things. I expressed an opinion with no overt attempt to have an agenda for anything else and that I trust is how many saw it.
I repeat, good luck with this venture.

[scrivy]

If it's Triumphs...I'd just about say I'd lick my own balls. Triumph UK may well get behind it...but Triumph NZ???? Tui.

Well, he did say international riders............. :shifty:
Why don't you just ask someone else to do the licking........?? :eek:

[Robert Taylor]

Don't really need to with your 'Product logo' at the bottom of every post you make I guess.

Once again...why don't you ask the owners of the site if you can have an 'Ohlins only' bit? They may well link every question about sports bikes to you if you're lucky.

While I have the utmost respect for the work you do, and the knowledge you have regarding all things suspension...I'm getting more than a little tired of seeing you turn every single thread into a discussion of such.

Actually, also in fairness ( and this is not a smart alec reply by any means ) who else is regularly articulating / offering detailed replies and lengthy explanations to suspension questions / technology? Coincidentally my favoured Scandinavian suspension product is undeniably at the forefront of much of todays top supension units, as well as other great companies such as WP, Penske and ( unobtainable ) works level Showa.
Just late today I had a pm asking some suspension questions, also expressing thanks for the input into KB and to not be worried about detractors.

[AllanB]

Does this Triumph still count as 'stock' :shit::love::love::love:

[Brian d marge]

anyone who gets off their arse and tries to bring NZ racing into the modern age has my vote.

The days of flinging a bike round a track on sat afternoon are long gone, Thats whats clubs are for ,,, )

but just stop and think, there are ( road racing) 10 -20 races a year ????,,,expected fan base 30 000 max??? ( with at anyone time 20 000 turning up at wangas , that will give you say 500 000 dollars from gate sales, tack a few dollars on top for "stuff".....thats a medium sized business....or a handful of smaller one man bands....couple that with... the I dont have any money kiwi ...the poo is starting to slip hough fingers as we try to push it up hill.

What a lot of people do here is join/make a club and Share the deal ...rent /hire/buy a bike...share the cost ..workload...So you pay say 50 dollars a month to be involved in 5 or 6 races a year...as something u want to do,,ie mechanic...

Rallycar people do the same thing

Everyone needs incentive , I think that the majority are not getting what the want from nz road racing at this moment.

it needs to change, and anyone who gets off proverbial and does ..gets my vote.


Stephen

[Cleve]

A very interesting idea and I hope it goes well for you Shaun. With all the current economic issues going on in the world I do hope that the "international" supporters aren't suddenly going to pull the plug as all their money was in an Iceland Bank or USA property!!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Actually, also in fairness ( and this is not a smart alec reply by any means ) who else is regularly articulating / offering detailed replies and lengthy explanations to suspension questions / technology? Coincidentally my favoured Scandinavian suspension product is undeniably at the forefront of much of todays top supension units, as well as other great companies such as WP, Penske and ( unobtainable ) works level Showa.
Just late today I had a pm asking some suspension questions, also expressing thanks for the input into KB and to not be worried about detractors.

And here you go again Robert.

This thread has nothing to do with suspension and how good you and/or your services are. It's about a guy (Shaun) doing his bit for NZ road racing and the upcommers of our sport.

No matter what bikes Shaun has lined up...you'll simply have to find another class to pimp your trade.

[Cleve]

This thread has nothing to do with suspension and how good you and/or your services are. It's about a guy (Shaun) doing his bit for NZ road racing and the upcommers of our sport.

What!!?? We have to keep to the thread topic in KB!!?? When did that start? Did I miss the PM about it?

[Robert Taylor]

And here you go again Robert.

This thread has nothing to do with suspension and how good you and/or your services are. It's about a guy (Shaun) doing his bit for NZ road racing and the upcommers of our sport.

No matter what bikes Shaun has lined up...you'll simply have to find another class to pimp your trade.

That was my point and I do wonder aloud that you actually understood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

[Shaun]

Ah yes - that reminds me of this one time at band camp........:clap:



My main question about all this is simple:

What colours are the bikes????????????




The Colour of The bikes will be

What ever colour sceme your personell sponsors want there unit to look like:done:

Each lease package, will be leased and Painted/sign written to your sponsore design:jerry:

3 Buisness names, will be on units in the exact same position

Moto Dynamix

bla bla

bla bla

[Shaun]

A very interesting idea and I hope it goes well for you Shaun. With all the current economic issues going on in the world I do hope that the "international" supporters aren't suddenly going to pull the plug as all their money was in an Iceland Bank or USA property!!



The Plug cannot be pulled mate, I have the whole sink in my HOUSE! I own it all!

It can only fail, IF I fail. I will not fail as this game is my passion, and I was good at it, if that sounds like the old cocky Shaun, Sorry folks, but I am back, and still have sponsors from 23 years ago, who are sponsoring my own racing, and a huge percentege of the consumable product that will be used on these Prodi bikes, so pretty comfortable to with my buisness relationships.

The International Buisness side of this, is a Media Marketing firm, The idea behind that, is to market promote New Zealand as well, as New Zealand riders, slight, crafer, crosby, Robert Holden etc are all Kiwi;s who all made it to the top, lets get some more out there ASAP

We are Kiwi.s and CAN do it!

PS thanks to the positive comments coming out of this, I have set myself a Goal, the same way I set myself a Goal to go and WIN at the TT, this is my Goal, and it WILL succeed.


SPECIAL THANKS TO


Woops, That is next month haha

[Shaun]

Robert Taylor


Thanks for the positive comments!


Would you mind just stepping out of this thread please? I would prefer it to stay on topic, and not get personell for any one, Thanks.

[Robert Taylor]

Robert Taylor


Thanks for the positive comments!


Would you mind just stepping out of this thread please? I would prefer it to stay on topic, and not get personell for any one, Thanks.

I was on topic and someone else manipulated away from it and agree that on topic it should remain. I do hope that this can work.

[steveyb]

I have a question.
Where will the riders be racing?

Cheers

Steve

[Shaun]

I have a question.
Where will the riders be racing?

Cheers

Steve




um, A Race track maybe:chase:

[Tony.OK]

I have a question.
Where will the riders be racing?

Cheers

Steve


um, A Race track maybe:chase:

Sorry but can't resist................Bwaahhaaaahhaaaaaaaa:done:

[steveyb]

Nah nah, that is waaaaay too obvious.:shifty:

No, my question is more, at which meetings and circuits?
For example, Manfeild is already pretty over committed with people wanting to use the track (there are only so many weekends in a year) and VMCC (for example) already has too many classes and is at a level where people must qualify to race in many classes.

There are of course other places to race, but would be good to know where you plan to be.

Cheers dude and catch ya on Fri/Sat.

Steve

[Mr Merde]

Good on you for this great inititave.

I remeber way back in the days the "production" races at Pukekohe.

Yamaha 350's ( later 400's) and Kawasaki H2 750's in the large class.

We all had pretty much the same bikes andf it was skil that shone through.

Crosby was the particular rider I remember, he ran rings around us and played games while racing.

It was also very exciting for the crowds as there was a lot of dicing for position.

I also attended a racing school at Brands Hatch in 1979. We all were on Honda CB400\4 bikes that had all been stripped for racing. That was real fun also.

Chris

[FROSTY]

Holey cow guys. this is silly.
A bloke want's to invest HIS OWN money into running a single make race class. HIS rules are clear cut as they are HIS bikes. Even if they were Lifan 200's (which of course they aren't )-thats about a 100k investment in the bikes and suspension.
Fuck this -- SHAUN where do I sighn?

[svr]

Great idea and would suit a lot of racers (current and wannabes). Most of us just want to race without getting another mortgage and can't be arsed about bike prep. (Fatties can either go on a diet or race cars with other fatties)
Q. Will there be a race series this summer (i.e. at the nationals) - are MNZ on board?

[Shaun]

Sorry crew But PLEASE READS THIS



MORE TO COME NEXT MONTH

[wharfy]

Does this Triumph still count as 'stock' :shit::love::love::love:

Ohhh that is lovely.....

[Kickaha]

HIS rules are clear cut as they are HIS bikes.

MNZ make the rules, anything else has to be supplementary regulations for the event


ie series this summer (i.e. at the nationals) - are MNZ on board?

Post 1 he says Nationals for $5000, however the classes have been set and the entry forms are out so unless the bikes are running in an already exisiting class I can't see another class getting added in?

However it's a fantatstic idea and it'd be good to see it get off the ground , the pricing is certainly affordable because at $5K to do the Nationals it's fairly cheap (unless you crash)

[roadracingoldfart]

the pricing is certainly affordable because at $5K to do the Nationals it's fairly cheap (unless you crash)


Yup , its true that its about $1000.00 per roll ouch.

[tri boy]

What a great way for up n coming riders to learn the art of "cutting a sponsorship deal".
Pitch a proposal to your local companies, and cut your racing costs to damn near nil.
Companies like Gallagher, Marac, Talley's, Orcon etc would find a five G deal as a piss in a bucket, and get a sub deal cut with local smaller firms to cover repairs to a set cost.
If people can't get out racing with an offer like Shaun's, then they really don't have the commitment they think they have. MHO

[Shaun P]

What a legend man! Good luck I will support this 100% :2thumbsup

[Cleve]

MNZ make the rules, anything else has to be supplementary regulations for the event

Post 1 he says Nationals for $5000, however the classes have been set and the entry forms are out so unless the bikes are running in an already exisiting class I can't see another class getting added in?

So must either be Trumpy 675's in SP or Hyosungs in ProTwins then eh?...

[puddytat]

So must either be Trumpy 675's in SP or Hyosungs in ProTwins then eh?...


Sorry crew But PLEASE READS THIS



MORE TO COME NEXT MONTH

You bloody carrot dangler....:laugh:

[Shaun]

You bloody carrot dangler....:laugh:


I know:shit: And it is so dam easy to do properlly

[Cleve]

I know:shit: And it is so dam easy to do properlly

unlike spelling...

[HDTboy]

So must either be Trumpy 675's in SP or Hyosungs in ProTwins then eh?...

My guess would be either Kawasaki ZX6, or ER6 in the above classes.
Anybody else want to get their guess in?

[nodrog]

My guess would be either Kawasaki ZX6, or ER6 in the above classes.
Anybody else want to get their guess in?

i reckon its Honda Goldwings in a new class, similar to full contact stock car racing :eek:

[FROSTY]

MNZ make the rules, anything else has to be supplementary regulations for the event
Your point is? of course a person will have supplimentary regs if they run a one brand, proddy class or it couldn't work

[scrivy]

MNZ make the rules, anything else has to be supplementary regulations for the event
Who said it is a MNZ series? :shifty: However it's a fantatstic idea and it'd be good to see it get off the ground , the pricing is certainly affordable because at $5K to do the Nationals it's fairly cheap (unless you crash)

$5000 combined is all Sidecar Bob and I paid Kick. What did you and Divvo spend.......?:shit:

[Kickaha]

Your point is? of course a person will have supplimentary regs if they run a one brand, proddy class or it couldn't work

Supplementary regs still have to be approved by MNZ they get the final say not the person proposing them


$5000 combined is all Sidecar Bob and I paid Kick. What did you and Divvo spend.......?:shit:

No more than what you did, might be slighly more this coming season

[Crasherfromwayback]

Supplementary regs still have to be approved by MNZ they get the final say not the person proposing them



No more than what you did, might be slighly more this coming season

Pah! I thought you sidecar boys were meant to be hard!? You should spend more than that on alcohol for a season.

[sidecar bob]

Pah! I thought you sidecar boys were meant to be hard!? You should spend more than that on alcohol for a season.

No, Were not hard, we're BADD, click the link at the bottom of our posts.:niceone:
Im thinking Hyosung 650.

[CHOPPA]

Def sounds like a great idea! Wish it was around a year ago...... 5 rounds of nationals 2 sets of tyres each round thats 10 sets at a retail price of $7000 your pretty much just paying for tyres!!

I guess the details will come but i take it these bikes will run in a pre established class? Also they would have to be something in the pro twin class id imagine to be able to get a whole round out of 2 sets of rubber and be competitive on the tight budget...?

[eelracing]

My guess for what its worth would be the new ninja 250r

[Nicksta]

that was my guess too... the new kawaka 250's not that you would go through 1 set of tyres in a series on those!

[vtec]

I reckon a proper 400 series would be great. Pity they don't make those anymore. But a 250, that would be cool too.

[ArcherWC]

Im more inclined to think hobag 650's in pro twins

[FROSTY]

No NO NO --its gonna be muzzy ikawasaki 250's -dont you guys read anything :bash:

[steveyb]

Yay!!!!!!!!!!!! 250 Production returns.................:clap::clap:

If it ends up being this then Moto Academy NZ might well look at getting on board also.

250 Proddy (albeit on 2T bikes) was simply the best thing since sliced bread for motorcycle racing in NZ. With the death of that class went a whole cohort of riders and a good level to enter, a level that 150 bikes simply cannot match.

But we will see in the fullness of time what Mr Gremlin has up is sleeves.

Full Noise!!!!

My 2c worth.

Steve

[svr]

Yay!!!!!!!!!!!! 250 Production returns.................:clap::clap:

Steve

Ah rose-tinted nostalgia...
Of course those old 250s had a bit of go (certainly enough to hi-side lol) and new 250s, er, don't.

Shauns concept is exciting because it:
1. is all about the riding, not the bike
2. reduces the barriers to participation. Sorry RT, but this is really what our tiny, exclusive and ridiculously expensive `sport' needs.
3. has the potential to be good fun e.g. riders pitted togethor, helping each other, racing hard, talking shit and having a few afterwards. Whats its all about right?
Bring it on.

[steveyb]

Ah rose-tinted nostalgia...
Of course those old 250s had a bit of go (certainly enough to hi-side lol) and new 250s, er, don't.

Shauns concept is exciting because it:
1. is all about the riding, not the bike
2. reduces the barriers to participation. Sorry RT, but this is really what our tiny, exclusive and ridiculously expensive `sport' needs.
3. has the potential to be good fun e.g. riders pitted togethor, helping each other, racing hard, talking shit and having a few afterwards. Whats its all about right?
Bring it on.

Reckon it would be quite a show (laugh??) to have 20+ 250s screaming around dicing with one another.

Those rosey glasses dimly recall racing (and I use that term advisedly) in the World SBK support race for 250 Production at Manfeild. 30 min race, live on TVNZ, 50 starters (or so anyway). And I beat Dave Cole!!!



ummmmm



to the line as he was about to lap me the 2nd time :doh:


Anyway, let's see.

Bet Shaun is enjoying this.......

Later

Steve

[CHOPPA]

Im more inclined to think hobag 650's in pro twins

lol theres no way it will be ninja 250s..... I think archer could be on the money

[Cleve]

lol theres no way it will be ninja 250s..... I think archer could be on the money

Agree. Based on Shaun's comments in other posts and the fact the Ninja 250's don't have a class at Nat's. It COULD be trumpy 675's as the only other option based on what Shaun is saying in other posts but costs would be so much more. So has to be the Korean SV650 copies.

[slowpoke]

Shauns concept is exciting because it:
1. is all about the riding, not the bike
That's pretty much how it is now, unless you are in the top 5 Nationally. I dare say any good rider on an average bike can beat an average rider on a good bike. Craig Shirriffs turns up to a Vic Club round (more riders turn up than at a Nat's event) and beats the superbikes on a 600, Jay Lawrence, Johnny Burkhart, Sam Smith, Choppa etc do much the same. The excuse of having someone else spend more on their bike is exactly that: an excuse. The difference is in the mirror not in the bank balance.
2. reduces the barriers to participation. Sorry RT, but this is really what our tiny, exclusive and ridiculously expensive `sport' needs.
Bike racing of almost any form is way cheaper than 90% of 4 wheeled racing, yet cheque (haha) out the money and sheer quantity of competitors on display at a NZV8 supercar round in all classes vs our tiny comparatively cheap National Series There are huge numbers turning up to the Winter Series yet only a few turn up to the Nationals, so competitor numbers aren't the problem, maybe it's more to do with timing/location/travel??? Dunno......
3. has the potential to be good fun e.g. riders pitted togethor, helping each other, racing hard, talking shit and having a few afterwards. Whats its all about right?
Exactly what happens now.
Bring it on.
Yup

All that aside, I hope lots of people get involved and make it a roaring success. My fear is that people won't do the sums and realise that it is a cheap way to make a name in a championship.
Fingers crossed the bikes are visually and aurally exciting, with talent unearthed and given a feasable path to success which at the moment does not exist.
Ok, so you win the XYZ championship on Shaun's bikes (good onya fella!) what then?
1. You jump onto a supersport ride and do well. Cool!
2. Then what? You jump on to a Superbike, right?
3. and effectively get punished through our cross entry rules where you get half the racing as those on a Supersport bike. Who is going to want to make that progression?
Shaun's series sound's great but unless some co-ordination and a logical "career path" is established NZ is still a ticket to Nowheresville for a young talented racer.

[scrivy]

Nz Championship rounds will cost for the entire series $5000 ONLY That inclused 2 sets of Tyres and Petrol


What dad wouldn't pay for their kid to do this?!

[Toast]

Yup


3. and effectively get punished through our cross entry rules where you get half the racing as those on a Supersport bike. Who is going to want to make that progression?

I don’t think that only being able to do one class in club racing is really a concern for those who are good enough to compete at National level on a thou’…it wouldn’t be for me anyway.

…and if you’re not good enough to compete at National level on a thou’ then maybe you should be on a 600?

[lostinflyz]

I don’t think that only being able to do one class in club racing is really a concern for those who are good enough to compete at National level on a thou’…it wouldn’t be for me anyway.

…and if you’re not good enough to compete at National level on a thou’ then maybe you should be on a 600?

someones gotta race a thou. or else is superbike racing to only occur during jan/feb at the nationals.

[vtec]

I agree with Toast, I think there's no need to be on a superbike until you are one of the best supersport racers. There's so much to learn on a 600 with more than ample levels of danger. Only reason I can see for riding a superbike if you aren't one of the best supersport racers would be if you are a large lump of a man.

[Toast]

Only reason I can see for riding a superbike if you aren't one of the best supersport racers would be if you are a large lump of a man.

Even then, look what Nick Cole can do on one!

[Toast]

someones gotta race a thou. or else is superbike racing to only occur during jan/feb at the nationals.

They can still race them at club meets, ofcourse...my point being is that as you get more serious you are probably more concerned about putting in a couple of good races rather than having 4, getting over-tired and wearing engines, tyres, etc. at a higher rate.

[Shaun P]

Yup

All that aside, I hope lots of people get involved and make it a roaring success. My fear is that people won't do the sums and realise that it is a cheap way to make a name in a championship.
Fingers crossed the bikes are visually and aurally exciting, with talent unearthed and given a feasable path to success which at the moment does not exist.
Ok, so you win the XYZ championship on Shaun's bikes (good onya fella!) what then?
1. You jump onto a supersport ride and do well. Cool!
2. Then what? You jump on to a Superbike, right?
3. and effectively get punished through our cross entry rules where you get half the racing as those on a Supersport bike. Who is going to want to make that progression?
Shaun's series sound's great but unless some co-ordination and a logical "career path" is established NZ is still a ticket to Nowheresville for a young talented racer.

I think its great, once a young racer has gained enough experience in respective classes in NZ or Aus, proven themselves and is commited enough the only real progression/step up is to race in USA or Europe

[Shaun]

I think its great, once a young racer has gained enough experience in respective classes in NZ or Aus, proven themselves and is commited enough the only real progression/step up is to race in USA or Europe



And MotoDynamix has shown this can be done, ( With a budget) ie

Dominique Jones in the usa

And 2 more going there next year through tis programmme

More next month sorry folks

[oyster]

Shaun P
A feasible path to success does exist in New Zealand, but only in Canterbury. There the 10 to 12 year olds are trained in Young Junior Road race, then, at 13 Streetstock and 125 GP. All before turning 15. Steve Ward Racing this year has 4 riders for the championship. 2 x 15 year olds, 2 x 16 yo. All have at least one full championship behind them, and a minimum of 40 RR log book entries. 2 have competed in Australia. One 15 year old has completed 2 championships and has 2 NZ titles.
This is a feasible and proven career path, the sad thing only one club in the country is committed to it. Generally speaking any other initiatives around the country haven't got the patience for a "5 year plan" such as this, but want the "just add water / instant success" variety, (which will NEVER work)
If anyone is seriuos about international success in fute for NZ Road rAcers, they need to look over the fence at Karting, Motocross and countless other sports where development requires patience, committment and starts young

[Sparky Bills]

Look forward to hearing what the bikes are.
5K for a season is bloody cheap!

Not saying that keeping the bikes together between racing is bad (cause thats a great idea!)
But I just like having MY bike in MY garage so I can work on it and marvell at its fine form etc :)
Plus I LOVE showing it off to friends etc :headbang:

Hope this works out for Shaun. I think it would be a great step forward for bike racing in nz.

People can step up out of this class with more sponsors etc after a season of kicking ass too.

[svr]

Slowpoke: I love it whenever someone mentions money and other barriers to access motorcycle racing people say 'nah mate, it's cheap compared to car racing...'
I give up!

[Shaun]

Shaun P
A feasible path to success does exist in New Zealand, but only in Canterbury. There the 10 to 12 year olds are trained in Young Junior Road race, then, at 13 Streetstock and 125 GP. All before turning 15. Steve Ward Racing this year has 4 riders for the championship. 2 x 15 year olds, 2 x 16 yo. All have at least one full championship behind them, and a minimum of 40 RR log book entries. 2 have competed in Australia. One 15 year old has completed 2 championships and has 2 NZ titles.
This is a feasible and proven career path, the sad thing only one club in the country is committed to it. Generally speaking any other initiatives around the country haven't got the patience for a "5 year plan" such as this, but want the "just add water / instant success" variety, (which will NEVER work)
If anyone is seriuos about international success in fute for NZ Road rAcers, they need to look over the fence at Karting, Motocross and countless other sports where development requires patience, committment and starts young


Agree Pete:2guns:

My plan for this, is to definately work in with the STH Island Plan and future building of star riders.

We will talk more personally next month.

PS, I Think I may have sold a MULI Champion on the idea of getting into this with me as a partner as well now! YEH:soon:

[svr]

The sport would also benefit from general growth. The chances of young riders being totally dedicated to a sport are slim when their peers, the media and society at large care nothing about it. The social support and motivational rewards are not there.
Career path development is obviously important, but for any sport participation numbers matter too.

[cowpoos]

. Then what? You jump on to a Superbike, right?
3. and effectively get punished through our cross entry rules where you get half the racing as those on a Supersport bike. Who is going to want to make that progression?


would be nice to cross enter with the 600's but meh!! Superbikes are where its at!! challenging to setup/ride/race... :)

I also reckon alot of riders don't suit 600's

[Iggy]

Hey congatulations Shuan!! I think its a fabulous idea cos if I win lotto tonite, count me in but alas have never raced before. Just an ole geezer who would love to race for the pure ardrenilin!!! :Punk:

[Mumbles]

This kind of idea Shaun makes having a go seem more do-able, no worry about having to go out and purchase a bike that could be a lemon, if you cant spanner to save yourself, then you don't have to worry about that either.
No trailer no storage, no garage no problem.
Wonder if you could get a finance co on board to make the 5k a little bit more achievable for us poor guys who cant budget to save ourselves. Nice work.

[Shaun]

This kind of idea Shaun makes having a go seem more do-able, no worry about having to go out and purchase a bike that could be a lemon, if you cant spanner to save yourself, then you don't have to worry about that either.
No trailer no storage, no garage no problem.
Wonder if you could get a finance co on board to make the 5k a little bit more achievable for us poor guys who cant budget to save ourselves. Nice work.




There will be a finance set up, where the $5K can be paid of in WEEKLY installments!


You break the weekly installments, YOU loose all invested so far!

We will be breaking NO CONTRACTS:third:

[jrandom]

I also reckon alot of riders don't suit 600's

Mmmm. Did someone say 'pies'?

:lol:

[CHOPPA]

Mmmm. Did someone say 'pies'?

:lol:

hahah they sure did! Jesters Pies to be precise! Actually i agree with mr poos if your a big guy you might as well just get a 1000, if your aiming to be a national champion or something like that then it might be a good idea to stay on a 600 for a few seasons but if your looking at racing for your own enjoyment i can promise you that if your a big guy your gonna have more fun on a big bike just have some respect for it, the superbike class in club rounds and nationals needs to be built up and all this talk about have to pour 40k into an engine is pointless unless your aiming to win the nationals

[R1madness]

Good on ya Shaun. Fantastic concept. Can you please email me or post me an imformation pack so i can introduce the concept to several young racers here in Chch. It will be like the old days again, close racing without needing to mortgage the house.

[Shaun]

Good on ya Shaun. Fantastic concept. Can you please email me or post me an imformation pack so i can introduce the concept to several young racers here in Chch. It will be like the old days again, close racing without needing to mortgage the house.



WEill do, and thanks

[Sketchy_Racer]

Any more news on this or are we all to still wait.

I think it is an excellent idea and will be hugely beneficial to road racing in NZ if it works out.

[Shaun]

Any more news on this or are we all to still wait.

I think it is an excellent idea and will be hugely beneficial to road racing in NZ if it works out.



600cc Class! That is all for now:niceone:

[BIGBOSSMAN]

600cc Class! That is all for now:niceone:

Did you assist in writing episodes for Lost, Shaun...???

[Shaun]

Did you assist in writing episodes for Lost, Shaun...??? :2guns::2guns:

[JD Racing]

I guess the bikes would have to be Shauns own, why would you invest in 20 units of someone else's product?




I am working on a new! New Zealand built bike at the moment, this morning I recieved a photo of how the whole deal will look completed, with body work etc, and it is trick!!! And there is a very professional organisation in place to mass produce the chassis kit for me!

The design has been going on since May last year, and the first and only one, has been ridden tested on the roads in the UK, just before I went from the UK to the TT- YES, it is FFFFFFFuuuunnnnn AWSOME, and very easy to ride fast!

We have built the first one around a ZX10 Motor, as they are so cheap to buy, but are also looking at 5 other motor designs to fit the same basic package, for individualls choice.

Suspension on the test rig at the moment is Ohlin,s suspension, but when the originall bike arrives here for further testing, I will asking Robert T, to build a few different spec shocks, to see if we can make it better than it already is, Shocks? Yea, 1x front end 1x rear end!

We will also be testing using the Penske shock as well.

It will be a while untill I can release any photo's, but will do, as soon as I can.

But ye ha, a Kiwi Built bike again:eek:

[Robert Taylor]

Ah rose-tinted nostalgia...
Of course those old 250s had a bit of go (certainly enough to hi-side lol) and new 250s, er, don't.

Shauns concept is exciting because it:
1. is all about the riding, not the bike
2. reduces the barriers to participation. Sorry RT, but this is really what our tiny, exclusive and ridiculously expensive `sport' needs.
3. has the potential to be good fun e.g. riders pitted togethor, helping each other, racing hard, talking shit and having a few afterwards. Whats its all about right?
Bring it on.

Dont be sorry, such 250s would hardly challenge the tyres and would be an excellen introduction and training class.

[slowpoke]

IOnly reason I can see for riding a superbike if you aren't one of the best supersport racers would be if you are a large lump of a man.

Ya forgot FUN, bro!

Reaching the apex of a corner and lighting the wick on 160-180hp, feeling the rear squirming for grip as the front starts to come up....one of motorcyclings true pleasures......

[Shaun]

Ya forgot FUN, bro!

Reaching the apex of a corner and lighting the wick on 160-180hp, feeling the rear squirming for grip as the front starts to come up....one of motorcyclings true pleasures......




YO:dodge: " like the Gravy Stroke":calm:

[vtec]

Ya forgot FUN, bro!

Reaching the apex of a corner and lighting the wick on 160-180hp, feeling the rear squirming for grip as the front starts to come up....one of motorcyclings true pleasures......

I found the dicing on the little bikes more fun than dicing on the big bikes, because you could be pretty sure that death wasn't around the next corner. I've blasted around taupo on a Hayabusa to the point where it got brake fade bad. It was fun because I was dicing with Leong, but I enjoy a good 600 more, and the CBR250RR is still a blast.

For me the gravy stroke is having my elbow inches off the ground around the corners. Powersliding out of corners is good too, but you can do that on a 600, and you can powerslide and highside a 250 fourstroke... Just ask texmo.

600's aye, this is exciting. Pity I'm still on my lifetime adventure overseas next year. Still I'll see you at the TRRS and endurance race.

[wharfy]

I found the dicing on the little bikes more fun than dicing on the big bikes

Dicing is the key word here, I'm only a clubmans racer, but swapping places with someone, whether it be 1st or last is what makes it RACING :) Getting back to the pits and having your hands trembling with adrenaline ......

[HDTboy]

OK Shaun, it's next month now.
Spill the beans

[Shaun]

OK Shaun, it's next month now.
Spill the beans



Haha read the pages and catch up dude, its a race scene we are talking about here

[lostinflyz]

talk about drip feeding information man. hahahaha.

ya got a date for when "official" info will be released??

[scracha]

600cc Class! That is all for now:niceone:

Bugger... Was hoping it would be kwakka 650's or summit but if i'm highsiding with 50 ponies then a 170mph bike seems like a deathwish to me.

Shaun, I sincerely hope this all works out (I believe with the right backing it will) and it's great to see a top racer putting so much back into the sport.

Umm...I can envisage a glut of used 600 racebikes on trademe very soon.

[Shaun]

talk about drip feeding information man. hahahaha.

ya got a date for when "official" info will be released??



Not yet sorry, as there are things still being worked out for this programme, but it will be coming to you soon

[Shaun]

I guess the bikes would have to be Shauns own, why would you invest in 20 units of someone else's product?




Not a bad GUESS I guess:

[ziepfenj]

I would definately be interested in this. I will be over there for the 2010 season, and right now am working on my nz racing license. Please keep me updated!

[Shaun]

I would definately be interested in this. I will be over there for the 2010 season, and right now am working on my nz racing license. Please keep me updated!



Sure will:sunny:

[Mr Merde]

..

More to come in a Month from Now!

Its a "month from now" +1

about time you came clean

[scrivy]

came clean

Is there such a thing....:confused:

[Shaun]

Its a "month from now" +1

about time you came clean



Sorry master! Rome was not built in a day:calm:

[Mr Merde]

Sorry master! Rome was not built in a day:calm:

Fair enough

[KS34]

Lets go naked.......! Thats my stab anyway. Like ozzy it could be fz6, cb600f, gsr600 or.. the triumph street triple or what ever they call it. Can't wait.:pinch:

[Mrs Busa Pete]

600 gixers formula suzuki maybe

[wharfy]

Lets go naked.......! Thats my stab anyway. Like ozzy it could be fz6, cb600f, gsr600 or.. the triumph street triple or what ever they call it. Can't wait.:pinch:

Street triple, that sounds good to me, a bike shop manager told me it was his favorite ride in the shop. (I've never ridden one though) :)

[R6_kid]

Street triple, that sounds good to me, a bike shop manager told me it was his favorite ride in the shop. (I've never ridden one though) :)

With ohlins in it, it would be a blast. Stock standard suspension - I wouldn't feel comfortable going balls to the wall at all.

[sidecar bob]

With ohlins in it, it would be a blast. Stock standard suspension - I wouldn't feel comfortable going balls to the wall at all.

F.F.S hasnt anyone got the balls to ride a bike on stock suspension anymore.

I sense a huge softness creeping in.
Im also becoming more than a little tired of hearing that EVERY bike MUST be fitted with a paticular brand of suspension in order to to be a worthy steed.
Can we take a wee break from it now please? im sure the message has been well & truly put across.
Goblins performance on the standard ZXR400 compared to a couple of blokes on ones that had more spent on the suspension than her entire bike proved that there is a lot of cock being talked.

[nodrog]

F.F.S hasnt anyone got the balls to ride a bike on stock suspension anymore.

I sense a huge softness creeping in.

gn250 series

[bungbung]

Goblins performance on the standard ZXR400 compared to a couple of blokes on ones that had more spent on the suspension than her entire bike proved that there is a lot of cock being talked.


That's last week. Shaun's planning a series running on hardtails

[Squiggles]

gn250 series

Keen. </10chars>

[Pumba]

Keen. </10chars>

Damm skippy, sounds like fun

[wharfy]

F.F.S hasnt anyone got the balls to ride a bike on stock suspension anymore.

I sense a huge softness creeping in.


Thats what Viagra is for ....

[Shaun]

With ohlins in it, it would be a blast. Stock standard suspension - I wouldn't feel comfortable going balls to the wall at all.



Go and learn how to ride a bike propally and fast first then

[Billy]

F.F.S hasnt anyone got the balls to ride a bike on stock suspension anymore.

I sense a huge softness creeping in.
Im also becoming more than a little tired of hearing that EVERY bike MUST be fitted with a paticular brand of suspension in order to to be a worthy steed.
Can we take a wee break from it now please? im sure the message has been well & truly put across.
Goblins performance on the standard ZXR400 compared to a couple of blokes on ones that had more spent on the suspension than her entire bike proved that there is a lot of cock being talked.

Bloody well said,Some of the experts on here arent going as fast on their late model superbikes with the so called "cant ride without suspension "as the senior proddy boys were doing back in the late 80s on their 220kg 1100s with stock suspension and shitty tyres And guess what ? Nobody died doing it

[svr]

Bloody well said,Some of the experts on here arent going as fast on their late model superbikes with the so called "cant ride without suspension "as the senior proddy boys were doing back in the late 80s on their 220kg 1100s with stock suspension and shitty tyres And guess what ? Nobody died doing it

Amen. On another thread people were discussing a good SRAD time at Manfield - I remember Paul McQuilkin doing 10s at the last WSBK round (93?) on a pre-srad suzi 750 on yokohamas and with BOG STANDARD SUSPENSION.

[CM2005]

Awesome project shaun, i'll have the $5grand waiting... oh, is there going to be a prerequisite? i.e so many years racing at a certain level, or a first come first served basis???

[Robert Taylor]

Amen. On another thread people were discussing a good SRAD time at Manfield - I remember Paul McQuilkin doing 10s at the last WSBK round (93?) on a pre-srad suzi 750 on yokohamas and with BOG STANDARD SUSPENSION.

And just imagine how much faster he and all the other talented riders would go with good suspension. Easy point to ( conveniently I think ) overlook.

How many WSBK and WSS entries do you see with stock standard suspension?

[jrandom]

And just imagine how much faster he and all the other talented riders would go with good suspension.

Some people have tight budgets and just like riding bikes, y'know.

You seem to have difficulty accepting that.

[Shaun]

And just imagine how much faster he and all the other talented riders would go with good suspension. Easy point to ( conveniently I think ) overlook.

How many WSBK and WSS entries do you see with stock standard suspension?



This thread is about production racing Robert! NOT Sports Production racing.

Can you PLEASE just leave it alone, and move on to an area that is Your dept, ie, selling after market suspension:Punk:





Thankyou

[tri boy]

Shaun, there are a few people about with what could only be described as "quite a mongrel' stirring in their pants about this idea.
Don't let others rush you on this, if it picks up in a manner that it could, then it could really fire up NZ proddy racing.
IOM is big to you now, but this could also be almost as big in personal satisfaction.
Remember, from little things, big things grow.

[sidecar bob]

And just imagine how much faster he and all the other talented riders would go with good suspension. Easy point to ( conveniently I think ) overlook.


So we raise the bar for everyone & just end up with the class costing more.
Hey. . . why stop at suspension, thats only one aspect of going fast, What the hell Shaun, why dont you just get a dozen moto gp bikes & we can lease them for $500,000 a season, that should screw the sport properly.

[Crasherfromwayback]

This thread is about production racing Robert! NOT Sports Production racing.


Hey Shaun...lets make it RMZ450 proddie racing...no mods except a 36t back sprocket and soft tyres on std rims!
The new fuel injected 5 speeders are only $9995.00(with heaps of goodies thrown in)...let's go!!!

Did I mention I just purchased one??:baby:

[slowpoke]

There are two trains of thought here and both are valid:

1) You've got to be able to ride the wheels off what ever you are riding if you are aiming for ultimate success.
2) You also have to be able to tune suspension to extract the maximum performance possible if you want to progress further. Being able to change springs, modify damping etc is also an important part of a riders development that isn't catered for with stock suspension.

With or without aftermarket suspension people will ride to the limits. You could argue that stock suspension is actually safer because corner speeds will be reduced. You could also argue that stock suspension limits the "level playing field" because riders won't be able to tailor suspension outside certain weight parameters.

I hope it does well, it would make for great TV....but therein lies the real problem with our sport: exposure.

[JJ58]

Hey Guys,

I'm not wanting to enter into the little lovers tiff that's goin' on here:lol:, but I am curious if anyone knows of any other "production" racing series that's currently running anywhere in the world right now???...... Street Stock 150's about the only class I can think of.... Maybe CBR150 in Oz??

It's a good concept. SS150 has done wonders for the racing scene in NZ.

[CM2005]

just to put my 2c into this stupid suspension debate... what happens to people who are unsure how to get the best from their suspension??? proddie racing is about standard bikes, and controlled tyres etc.. not wankers with $$$$ winning everything, its a proper may the best man win situation.
NOT THAT I'M SAYING EVERYONE WHO WINS OR DOES WELL IS A WANKER WITH ALOT OF MONEY!!!!

[sidecar bob]

Hey Guys,

I'm not wanting to enter into the little lovers tiff that's goin' on here

Hey!! none of us love each other here, i thought that was perfectly clear. :laugh::argue::2thumbsup

[Robert Taylor]

Some people have tight budgets and just like riding bikes, y'know.

You seem to have difficulty accepting that.

Lets turn that around...........some people have more liberal budgets and some people have problems accepting that.

[Robert Taylor]

just to put my 2c into this stupid suspension debate... what happens to people who are unsure how to get the best from their suspension??? proddie racing is about standard bikes, and controlled tyres etc.. not wankers with $$$$ winning everything, its a proper may the best man win situation.
NOT THAT I'M SAYING EVERYONE WHO WINS OR DOES WELL IS A WANKER WITH ALOT OF MONEY!!!!

Im glad you clarified with your last sentence as tall poppy syndrome is one of the least appealing of kiwi character flaws. I dont have a problem with anyone having lots of money and using it, providing they grafted hard for it and have carried people along with them. What I do have a problem with is the dumbing down mentality ( rather than aspiration and a hard work ethic ) that has crept into our society at large.
Bear in mind that it will still be those with the most committment winning anyway.
Personally ( and I can agree to disagree with Shaun ) a true production series should be open to all brands.
Back to subject and over and out from me.

[cowpoos]

F.F.S hasnt anyone got the balls to ride a bike on stock suspension anymore.

I sense a huge softness creeping in.
Im also becoming more than a little tired of hearing that EVERY bike MUST be fitted with a paticular brand of suspension in order to to be a worthy steed.
Can we take a wee break from it now please? im sure the message has been well & truly put across.
Goblins performance on the standard ZXR400 compared to a couple of blokes on ones that had more spent on the suspension than her entire bike proved that there is a lot of cock being talked.

Okay...how about we do a race class...say 600's with stock suspension...but with a control rider weight...stock everything...tyres a control. but....

We'll weight the heaviest person in the class...and everyone else gets to wear weight belts of lead balast to make them the same weight...and then we'll Race...I'm up in that case!!

[madkeenandy]

Hey Guys,

I'm not wanting to enter into the little lovers tiff that's goin' on here:lol:, but I am curious if anyone knows of any other "production" racing series that's currently running anywhere in the world right now???...... Street Stock 150's about the only class I can think of.... Maybe CBR150 in Oz??

It's a good concept. SS150 has done wonders for the racing scene in NZ.

In Italy and france (?) they have a similar production junior class except they use the plentiful aprillia and cagiva 125 road bikes. Rossi statrted there (after mini-motos)

[Buddha#81]

We'll weight the heaviest person in the class...and everyone else gets to wear weight belts of lead balast to make them the same weight...and then we'll Race...I'm up in that case!!

I'm in for that..... but the wee guys will crumble unber the 40 odd kgs they would have to stap on.

[gav]

I'm in for that..... but the wee guys will crumble unber the 40 odd kgs they would have to stap on.

Only 40kg you reckon? :whistle:

[steveyb]

In Italy and france (?) they have a similar production junior class except they use the plentiful aprillia and cagiva 125 road bikes. Rossi statrted there (after mini-motos)

Yep, so do we.
We call it Streetstock (150).
The Aprilia and Cagiva are eligible to be ridden in that class.

James Dean (our one, not the other one, although both taken WAAAAAY TOO young), used to race an Aprilia.
Unfortunately they are seen as being too dear to get into.
But I see a couple of '06 Aprilias on TradeMe for about $8k.
Bit of a diff from $2-3k for an old RG or KR though isn't it?

The Brits call theirs SuperTeen Cup and it is simply the Dogs Danglies for youth racing.

Moto Academy NZ was going to go that route until we did the numbers re price of bikes. If someone out there wants to sponsor or buy Moto Academy NZ 10-12 Aprilia RS125s or Cagiva Mito 595s then by all means let me know!!!!

Enjoy.

Steve

[puddytat]

Only 40kg you reckon? :whistle:

'Bout 120 pies Id guess:drool:

[oyster]

Dear MotoAcademy NZ. Your ideas and observations are right on it.
Now, please please have a go at it.
No, Streetstock is NOT a junior race class under MNZ rules. It is open to all riders on a "free for all" basis. These overseas classes are restricted to young riders, and usually have good mentoring and support. A BIG difference.

In NZ we have the Sportzfotoz Junior Cup. This for under 17's and excludes riders with "more senior experience" (eg 125GP, F3, Pro twin experience)
Now in its fourth year it has yeilded the huge dept of youth talent and experience emerging from the South Island. It is the perfect development prerequisite to 125GP / Pro Twin. It definitely works, is aligned with similar successful programmes overseas, so why not use it universally throughout NZ?
And regarding bikes, there is NOTHING WRONG with RG 150's. They are just as capable as the ideal trainer for youngsters as any other megadollar brand/model.

[svr]

Im glad you clarified with your last sentence as tall poppy syndrome is one of the least appealing of kiwi character flaws. I dont have a problem with anyone having lots of money and using it, providing they grafted hard for it and have carried people along with them. What I do have a problem with is the dumbing down mentality ( rather than aspiration and a hard work ethic ) that has crept into our society at large.
Bear in mind that it will still be those with the most committment winning anyway.


Yeah, those 17-18yr old aspiring racers just need to `graft' harder. What is minimum wage Robert?
The good thing about proddie racing is that, no matter how many investment properties your Dad has, or who you know, getting on a bike that can win is achievable and if you're the best rider you will probably win.
Kinda the way any sport should be here in NZ.

[scracha]

We'll weight the heaviest person in the class...and everyone else gets to wear weight belts of lead balast to make them the same weight...and then we'll Race...I'm up in that case!!

Lets put the shorter riders on cushions and platformed shoes too. I mean, it's hardly fair that the tall people have to compensate for extra drag.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Yeah, those 17-18yr old aspiring racers just need to `graft' harder. What is minimum wage Robert?
The good thing about proddie racing is that, no matter how many investment properties your Dad has, or who you know, getting on a bike that can win is achievable and if you're the best rider you will probably win.
Kinda the way any sport should be here in NZ.

$12ph min wage.. You can race on that budget if you work hard... DAMHIK

[CHET]

Hey Shaun this all sounds pretty cool ive got a couple of questions for ya.
will you be running these in the vmcc winter series and if so will it be less to enter? I reckon if you ran it here you could have a prize for the winner of a partially paid (or full) in the same class im sure this would be a good incentive to get more riders on board.
P.S. I think this is a great idea and hope you have the success you deserve with this idea.:2guns:

[cowpoos]

I'm in for that..... but the wee guys will crumble unber the 40 odd kgs they would have to stap on.


They are the ones predomently for the production type suspension...I think they will whigge more about the fact thier bikes will handle like pieces of shit...and especially can't brake as hard...

[vtec]

Why would people whinge if everybody's in the same boat. I love racing 1990 CBR250's with stock suspension. I'm happy as long as it's all fair.

[Cleve]

Why would people whinge if everybody's in the same boat. I love racing 1990 CBR250's with stock suspension. I'm happy as long as it's all fair.

and that's fine if we are talking about a CBR250 class, but we we are not... are we? We are talking 600/675's right? Same weight but DOUBLE (triple?!) the power?

I approve of ideas and go get 'em attitudes (although so far we have had only talk from Shaun ... show me the money!! then I will be 100% in praise) however I still fail to get why all the anti aftermarket suspension talk from people. It makes you a better/faster racer and if you are going to do more than, say 10 races on a 600, (wild guess here) you will SAVE money. What's the issue?!

[sidecar bob]

why all the anti aftermarket suspension talk from people. It makes you a better/faster racer
Its not anti aftermarket SUSPENSION, its anti aftermarket ANYTHING, production class equals production class.
Senior Production in the '80s produced some mega talented racers on standard suspension, including Brian Bernard, Andrew Stroud & Shaun Harris. The manufacturers & importers got right behind it.
Like i said in an earlier post, why stop at suspension? If we had Kevin from Kelford Cams on this forum pedaling his wares would that mean the bikes should have hot cams too? That would make the them go faster & make people into better/faster racers apparently.
Kelfords product made our sidecar go a damn site faster than any suspension upgrade ever will.
The point is, where do you stop with a low budget entry class?

[vtec]

and that's fine if we are talking about a CBR250 class, but we we are not... are we? We are talking 600/675's right? Same weight but DOUBLE (triple?!) the power?

I approve of ideas and go get 'em attitudes (although so far we have had only talk from Shaun ... show me the money!! then I will be 100% in praise) however I still fail to get why all the anti aftermarket suspension talk from people. It makes you a better/faster racer and if you are going to do more than, say 10 races on a 600, (wild guess here) you will SAVE money. What's the issue?!

The stock suspension on these newer 600's/675's are far superior to the 18 year old suspension on the CBR250RR's. The engineers at the big four japanese motorcycle do actually engineer their bikes to be ridden to the limit. I don't think that suspension mods makes someone a better racer. But it can help drop laptimes, still if everyone is in the same boat you'll have fair racing.

The K5 GSXR600 I raced last year had stock standard front forks, that I hadn't even checked the settings on, and I was top 5 with the VMCC and I only rode that bike 3 times. And the K5 600 that me and sketchy will be racing in the 3 hour endurance race has standard suspension all round, I'm sure we'll be reasonably competitive too.

Fair racing is fun racing, and provides a true proving ground for rising talent.

Also just wondering how you will save money by spending $2000 (conservative est.) on suspension modifications on a bike that will only be competitive for a season or two.

[brads]

The stock suspension on these newer 600's/675's are far superior to the 18 year old suspension on the CBR250RR's. The engineers at the big four japanese motorcycle do actually engineer their bikes to be ridden to the limit. I don't think that suspension mods makes someone a better racer. But it can help drop laptimes, still if everyone is in the same boat you'll have fair racing.

The K5 GSXR600 I raced last year had stock standard front forks, that I hadn't even checked the settings on, and I was top 5 with the VMCC and I only rode that bike 3 times. And the K5 600 that me and sketchy will be racing in the 3 hour endurance race has standard suspension all round, I'm sure we'll be reasonably competitive too.

Fair racing is fun racing, and provides a true proving ground for rising talent.

Also just wondering how you will save money by spending $2000 (conservative est.) on suspension modifications on a bike that will only be competitive for a season or two.

Far superior?? id hope its more than that!!!


Isnt dropping your laps times what most racers aim for?? so by bolting the lastest mods in,you then drop your times there for becoming a better racer?correct?


Its because thats what we all know and love about racing.
Untill we get a TRUE and successful production class thats the way it will continue.All the best Shaun

[ziepfenj]

I really hate to butt in, and I am sorry if I missed this (skipped to the last few pages), but i feel the main reason I enjoy aftermarket suspension is the predictability it brings. Consistent responses when pushing the suspension is what I look for, so I know what the bike is going to do, which in turn goes to safety. I mean, isn't this similar (not identical) to ss brake lines? You don't want your brakes to react completely different in the same turn on different laps, which means you are looking for consistency.

[sidecar bob]

I really hate to butt in, and I am sorry if I missed this (skipped to the last few pages), but i feel the main reason I enjoy aftermarket suspension is the predictability it brings. Consistent responses when pushing the suspension is what I look for, so I know what the bike is going to do, which in turn goes to safety. I mean, isn't this similar (not identical) to ss brake lines? You don't want your brakes to react completely different in the same turn on different laps, which means you are looking for consistency.

Which turns us into machines, that can only function in a predictable envrioment & if anything unpredictable happens we are hopelessly screwed.
My expierence with racing is that my acceptance that nothing is predictable & my ability to respond at very short notice to a situation that i didnt predict, has made me a leader in my chosen craft.
Assuming that racing is going to be predictable is far more dangerous than running a worn out standard shock absorber.

[Cleve]

Also just wondering how you will save money by spending $2000 (conservative est.) on suspension modifications on a bike that will only be competitive for a season or two.

As has been said before. Tyres. My most recent example of racing was a season and a bit on an R6 (as you may remember). At the end of the season I sold my ohlins for $1000. I am sure over the period of just that one season I saved more than $1000 on tyres alone.
Also as Sam Smith did sub 1 minutes around Pukekohe on an 05 R6 one could say that a well sorted 600 could be competitive at National level, in the right hands, for up to 5 seasons. The saving with the $2000 new ohlins over that kind of period would be much more.
Plus one could argue you are less likely to crash and therefore save money on repair bills :mellow:

[Cleve]

Which turns us into machines, that can only function in a predictable envrioment & if anything unpredictable happens we are hopelessly screwed.
My expierence with racing is that my acceptance that nothing is predictable & my ability to respond at very short notice to a situation that i didnt predict, has made me a leader in my chosen craft.
Assuming that racing is going to be predictable is far more dangerous than running a worn out standard shock absorber.

are ohlins THAT good!? If only I had your talent Bob, that proper suspension would turn me into a high speed predictable racer. They just made me a little faster, didn't crash for a whole season and loved the extra feel and sensation that I received from them. While cranked over I could feel that my worn out Super Corsas were losing me a little grip and I would note that and respond as needed. You mean it shouldn't be predictable, I shouldn't have that extra "feel" and crash giving myself a more expensive crash repair bill plus potential injuries (I'm in my 40's and I get hurt more easily! :crybaby:)
I feel racing is a true test of man and machine, at the limit of both's ability. I don't think it is something that should be compromised much. Yes I am sure that Shaun's brand new machines will be well prepped and reliable and an excellent way for a number of racers to do more than otherwise they could have. But, race bikes are stressed and pushed in exteme ways and race bikes should be well set up, otherwise you are a danger to yourself and others. We are not talking social cricket here, we are talking MOTORCYCLE RACING. Sticky tyres, sorted and good quality suspension and good brakes (pads, lines, etc) should not be an option they should be a compulsory requirement. If you can't afford that then sorry, do the occasional track day but don't try racing at a regular and frequent level until you can.

[ArcherWC]

are ohlins THAT good!? If only I had your talent Bob, that proper suspension would turn me into a high speed predictable racer. They just made me a little faster, didn't crash for a whole season and loved the extra feel and sensation that I received from them. While cranked over I could feel that my worn out Super Corsas were losing me a little grip and I would note that and respond as needed. You mean it shouldn't be predictable, I shouldn't have that extra "feel" and crash giving myself a more expensive crash repair bill plus potential injuries (I'm in my 40's and I get hurt more easily! :crybaby:)
I feel racing is a true test of man and machine, at the limit of both's ability. I don't think it is something that should be compromised much. Yes I am sure that Shaun's brand new machines will be well prepped and reliable and an excellent way for a number of racers to do more than otherwise they could have. But, race bikes are stressed and pushed in exteme ways and race bikes should be well set up, otherwise you are a danger to yourself and others. We are not talking social cricket here, we are talking MOTORCYCLE RACING. Sticky tyres, sorted and good quality suspension and good brakes (pads, lines, etc) should not be an option they should be a compulsory requirement. If you can't afford that then sorry, do the occasional track day but don't try racing at a regular and frequent level until you can.
Absolutly agree, standerdise the Engine, but DONT scrimp on the safety side of things (brakes, tyres, suspension, helmet, leathers, boots)

[scrivy]

I think some of us are missing the point of why we do what we do.
Not everyone wants to win a title. Not everyone wants to set lap records. Not everyone wants to win trophies.

People do it for all sorts of reasons.
To beat ya mates who reckon they're harder than you,
to show that being an old bastard - you still have it....,
to prove your machinery,
to win races,
to win titles,
to win trophies,
to HAVE FUN,
to have a STRESS RELIEF FROM WORK,
to score hot chicks......

As you can see, I like the bolded reasons. I don't give a flying .... about spending lots of money to achieve the same results. Just cause you do spend more money, doesn't mean you will get better results either.
If I can get a new lap record on a near canvas tyre, with an unknown tyre pressure, with a severely overheating engine spitting out water, on a $20,000 machine compared to the next machine I beat that was in excess of $150,000, then I know I've had great value for money and more fun than being in a room with 5 sets of twin nympho slappers!! (ok, maybe not that much then)

BUT... there are people out there that want the absolute best of everything. We shouldn't bag them I guess, but in the end, will they have anymore fun or outstandingly better results??

My 2c.....:apint:

[vtec]

As has been said before. Tyres. My most recent example of racing was a season and a bit on an R6 (as you may remember). At the end of the season I sold my ohlins for $1000. I am sure over the period of just that one season I saved more than $1000 on tyres alone.
Also as Sam Smith did sub 1 minutes around Pukekohe on an 05 R6 one could say that a well sorted 600 could be competitive at National level, in the right hands, for up to 5 seasons. The saving with the $2000 new ohlins over that kind of period would be much more.
Plus one could argue you are less likely to crash and therefore save money on repair bills :mellow:

There's no way I would save anywhere near $1000 let alone $2000 on tyres over a couple of seasons because of suspension. Firstly I buy second hand tyres. I'm not rich, they cost about $200 per set. And I'll get 1 meeting per set (usually front 2 meetings rear 1 meeting), aftermarket suspension would not change that.

Secondly, it's just as easy to crash a bike with standard suspension as it is one with aftermarket suspension. It is NOT a safety factor. Crashing is totally up to how hard the rider decides to push his or her machinery. Push any equipment over the edge of its ability and it will CRASH.

I did have crashes on my CBR600 with Ohlins all round, and it was due to lock ups in the wet, powering out of a corner too much, or just too much lean angle and brakes. One of my crashes was due to pushing too hard on worn out tyres, but that's due to lack of money, and keeping suspension standard leaves more money for things like tyres.

Also, faster laptimes on a machine with expensive suspension doesn't mean that you are a better rider at all. Racing motorbikes is all about finding the limits of the equipment that you have. The quality of motorcycles and standard suspension today is far better than that which was considered world class 15 years ago. It is NOT a safety issue and should not be pushed as such. Racing at NZ level needs it's costs to be cut down, NZ is a POOR country, if you want people to race, you need to make it cost effective.

However if people are getting problems with suspension going to crap due to overheating or something, then a solution needs to be found, which may be as simple as changing the oil in the forks, or allowing aftermarket suspension, but I personally have never had an issue like that.

Finally I'm sure that standard suspension set up properly with a suitable tyre compound will last aswell as a bike with aftermarket suspension. You need to match the tyre compound to the suspension. Also, this brings in the issue of a control tyre which could help to decrease costs too and increase tyre longevity.

Production racing is the bees knees.

And yeah I remember racing with you Cleve, I passed you and then promptly crashed in the wet :(, think that was my second ride on a 600.

[wharfy]

I think some of us are missing the point of why we do what we do.
Not everyone wants to win a title. Not everyone wants to set lap records. Not everyone wants to win trophies.

My 2c.....:apint:
Yes indeed !!!
I'd LIKE to win trophies and set lap records but even with an unlimited budget that isn't going to happen, so I'll settle for having some fun, I got to spend some money on bling for my road bike (like a boy racer) :tugger: and justified it by racing the bike.
The best value for money (if lowering lap times is the measure) was the money I spent on practice days.
In hind site it would have been more cost effective to buy a race bike and save the Hornet for riding to work/playing at the weekend. Clubman's is good for seeing if you want to race or not but something like pro twins or some other middleweight production class is needed for those of us that will not make the cut in superbikes/supersports.

I will probably end up doing that anyway (depending on how Shaun's plan pans out)

[svr]

Secondly, it's just as easy to crash a bike with standard suspension as it is one with aftermarket suspension. It is NOT a safety factor. Crashing is totally up to how hard the rider decides to push his or her machinery. Push any equipment over the edge of its ability and it will CRASH.

Also, faster laptimes on a machine with expensive suspension doesn't mean that you are a better rider at all. Racing motorbikes is all about finding the limits of the equipment that you have. The quality of motorcycles and standard suspension today is far better than that which was considered world class 15 years ago. It is NOT a safety issue and should not be pushed as such. Racing at NZ level needs it's costs to be cut down, NZ is a POOR country, if you want people to race, you need to make it cost effective.



Mate, you might be speaking the truth and being logical but you're wasting your time...

[svr]

I feel racing is a true test of man and machine, at the limit of both's ability. I don't think it is something that should be compromised much. ... Sticky tyres, sorted and good quality suspension and good brakes (pads, lines, etc) should not be an option they should be a compulsory requirement. If you can't afford that then sorry, do the occasional track day but don't try racing at a regular and frequent level until you can.

Someone needs to tell Agostini that he shouldn't have been out there!

[sidecar bob]

Sticky tyres, sorted and good quality suspension and good brakes (pads, lines, etc) should not be an option they should be a compulsory requirement. If you can't afford that then sorry, do the occasional track day but don't try racing at a regular and frequent level until you can.

That would be one of the most sport destroying views i have ever heard.
So it should be an exclusive "boys club" that can only be gained entry via a fat chequebook?
Im saddened by that, i came up through standard big cube road bikes that i could (barely) afford to race & i would be dissapointed if todays youth were denied the same path.
I dont disagree with the fact that the components you mention do vastly improve the machine & only an idiot would argue with the fact that Ohlins components are clearly the absolute pinnacle of suspension engineering, But for an entry level class? That can be for next years bike after the production race bike racer has learned to tell the difference in ajustments with a standard set up.

[Robert Taylor]

That would be one of the most sport destroying views i have ever heard.
So it should be an exclusive "boys club" that can only be gained entry via a fat chequebook?
Im saddened by that, i came up through standard big cube road bikes that i could (barely) afford to race & i would be dissapointed if todays youth were denied the same path.
I dont disagree with the fact that the components you mention do vastly improve the machine & only an idiot would argue with the fact that Ohlins components are clearly the absolute pinnacle of suspension engineering, But for an entry level class? That can be for next years bike after the production race bike racer has learned to tell the difference in ajustments with a standard set up.

The reality very often is that with the standard suspenders they are very often maxed inwards ( that in itself creating lots of undesirable hysterisis ) and the rider learns very little if anything about suspension setup.
Someone said we are a poor country, yes our incomes are not great but talking ourselves into it doesnt exactly help either. I know of many who werent exactly born with a silver spoon in their mouth and got to where they wanted to be through sheer hard work and sacrifice. I am not against entry level classes ( quite the opposite ) but excellence in machine specification and setup is not something that should be condemned, as a few have done in this and other threads.

[vtec]

The reality very often is that with the standard suspenders they are very often maxed inwards ( that in itself creating lots of undesirable hysterisis ) and the rider learns very little if anything about suspension setup.
Someone said we are a poor country, yes our incomes are not great but talking ourselves into it doesnt exactly help either. I know of many who werent exactly born with a silver spoon in their mouth and got to where they wanted to be through sheer hard work and sacrifice. I am not against entry level classes ( quite the opposite ) but excellence in machine specification and setup is not something that should be condemned, as a few have done in this and other threads.

Dude the biggest problem with the world at the moment is there's too many idiots who refuse to accept that they aren't rich. Now we are heading into a depression more than ever we are going to need to live within our means. In a country with limited money and limited productive economy there is only room for a small percentage of the population to be wealthy. The rest have to survive on what they can get. You have a niche business and good for you. I don't, and many young racers are pretty much kids on minimum wage. You can't earn good money until you are at least mid 20's by then it's too late for a motorcycle racing career. Keep costs down, or we will have a dearth of international motorcycle racers despite the talent in this country.

In my opinion fair racing doesn't need thousands to be blown on aftermarket suspension. Racing should be about the best rider triumphing, not the fattest chequebook.

There is definitely room for 1 or 2 modified road/race class in NZ. And learning to work with modifications is important once it gets really serious. But much more of the racing needs to be kept controlled to help identify talent, and keep costs down. If this doesn't happen, you will see the sport slide into a decline in the next few recessionary/depressionary years.

I've seen some serious quality riders come and go from the sport because of the costs, Ross King, Chris Sucich, and I'm sure others could name plenty more and I would like to include myself in that list hahaha, although cost was only one of the top 3 reasons why I packed it in.

[gav]

So anyway, what/where are these bikes then, Shaun? :confused:

[dwnundabkr]

2nd that, read all the posts now i am interested us old farts are getting older

[jrandom]

I am not against entry level classes

Define 'entry level', though. There's Clubmans, of course, but that's not a racing class per se.

If I want to go racing against other guys on the same spec machine with equipment that isn't old and fucked, what classes are available to me? Pro Twins/F3 (basically the same class now), superbikes, and 600s.

Anyone care to comment on what any of the above would be likely to cost me? I do know that more than one racing acquaintance who rides in F1 and/or F2 (and tries to win, etc) has quoted the cost of a full season incorporating the winter series and the Nats at over $30K.

And that's just silly. Why can't I walk into a dealership, buy a bike off the floor, and go racing competitively against others on the same equipment without spending money on anything but tyres and fuel?


Not everyone wants to win a title. Not everyone wants to set lap records. Not everyone wants to win trophies.

People do it for all sorts of reasons.
To beat ya mates who reckon they're harder than you,
to show that being an old bastard - you still have it....,
to HAVE FUN,
to have a STRESS RELIEF FROM WORK

Quoted for truth!

[sidecar bob]

Robert T, A little off topic, im interested to know the meaning of "maxed inwards" in your earlier post.

[jrandom]

Robert T, A little off topic, im interested to know the meaning of "maxed inwards" in your earlier post.

Come check out my GSX1400 sometime and you'll probably see what he's talking about.

:lol:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Plus one could argue you are less likely to crash and therefore save money on repair bills :mellow:

Sorry mate...that's utter bullshit! We've seen with the move from 1000cc GP bikes to 800cc's that going 'round corners faster = bigger and NASTIER crashes! So going round corners on bikes with 'Ohlins' faster than you can with stock suspenders = the same thing! WORK it out!!??


They just made me a little faster, didn't crash for a whole season and loved the extra feel and sensation that I received from them.
I feel racing is a true test of man and machine, at the limit of both's ability. I don't think it is something that should be compromised much. But, race bikes are stressed and pushed in exteme ways and race bikes should be well set up, otherwise you are a danger to yourself and others. We are not talking social cricket here, we are talking MOTORCYCLE RACING. Sticky tyres, sorted and good quality suspension and good brakes (pads, lines, etc) should not be an option they should be a compulsory requirement. If you can't afford that then sorry, do the occasional track day but don't try racing at a regular and frequent level until you can.

Sorry AGAIN! Crap. If you didn't crash for a whole season...it's because you were riding at a speed you were comfortable with, and you were unwilling to go beyond that speed to find the true limit of how fast your 'Ohlins' suspended bike could go.

Racing is indeed a true test of man and machine...that's why a true 'man' will rise above the rest even on stock equipment. Don't you find it 'odd' that THE most successful road racers ever to come out NZ raced 'Proddie' bikes? Graeme Crosby, the Hiscock Bros, Robert Holden, Aaron Slight, Simon Crafar and Bruce Ainstey (not to mention the legends that were well before those guys that didn't have flash suspension)?

Were they a danger to themselves and others when the raced 'proddie' bikes? I think not. Get real. Social cricket? Sounds like you're riding 'scocially' on your 'Ohlins' equipped bike if you've never binned it.

Modern sports bikes are as safe as they come to road race. They have good brakes...good suspension, and need nothing more than balls and skill to ride faster than the next cunt.



Production racing is the bees knees.


I'm with you there...'Proddie racing' is, and always has been the bees kness!


Someone needs to tell Agostini that he shouldn't have been out there!

Yeah mate...he shouldn't have been out there on those crappy old style tyres and brakes...he was obviously a danger to himself and everybody else!:sunny:


The reality very often is that with the standard suspenders they are very often maxed inwards ( that in itself creating lots of undesirable hysterisis ) and the rider learns very little if anything about suspension setup.


I am not against entry level classes ( quite the opposite ) but excellence in machine specification and setup is not something that should be condemned, as a few have done in this and other threads.

I'm sure you're only too aware that modern sports bikes have suspension that is VERY adjustable Robert. Yes we know that said adjustment is not as accurate and infinately adjustable as the Ohlins you continue to peddle is...but to say the 'Rider' learns "Very little if anything" is once again...BULLSHIT.

Racers of 'Production' bikes can learn this...
1:The difference tyre pressure makes
2:The difference spring (front and rear) preload makes.
3:The difference compression and rebound damping makes (both front and rear, and now often high and low speed as well)
4:The difference where the rear axle is placed in the swingarm.
5:The difference where the forks are in the triple clamps makes.
6:The difference a few extra litres of fuel makes.
7:The difference it makes when you sit differently on the bike.
8:The HUGE difference mental attitude can make.
9:....and my favorite one...the difference it makes when you're not beaten because you can't afford to spend the money some cunt that's slower than you can. THAT is the joy of 'Proddie' racing people!

Anyone that knocks proddie racing probably got their arse kicked trying to do so.

And for the record...I've won proddie races and races where I could do whatever the fuck I liked to the bike...but the Proddie races I've won were by far the sweetest!

As you were.:Punk:

[Robert Taylor]

Dude the biggest problem with the world at the moment is there's too many idiots who refuse to accept that they aren't rich. Now we are heading into a depression more than ever we are going to need to live within our means. In a country with limited money and limited productive economy there is only room for a small percentage of the population to be wealthy. The rest have to survive on what they can get. You have a niche business and good for you. I don't, and many young racers are pretty much kids on minimum wage. You can't earn good money until you are at least mid 20's by then it's too late for a motorcycle racing career. Keep costs down, or we will have a dearth of international motorcycle racers despite the talent in this country.

In my opinion fair racing doesn't need thousands to be blown on aftermarket suspension. Racing should be about the best rider triumphing, not the fattest chequebook.

There is definitely room for 1 or 2 modified road/race class in NZ. And learning to work with modifications is important once it gets really serious. But much more of the racing needs to be kept controlled to help identify talent, and keep costs down. If this doesn't happen, you will see the sport slide into a decline in the next few recessionary/depressionary years.

I've seen some serious quality riders come and go from the sport because of the costs, Ross King, Chris Sucich, and I'm sure others could name plenty more and I would like to include myself in that list hahaha, although cost was only one of the top 3 reasons why I packed it in.

And everyone keeps missing the point, we have controlled lower cost classes....

[Robert Taylor]

Define 'entry level', though. There's Clubmans, of course, but that's not a racing class per se.

If I want to go racing against other guys on the same spec machine with equipment that isn't old and fucked, what classes are available to me? Pro Twins/F3 (basically the same class now), superbikes, and 600s.

Anyone care to comment on what any of the above would be likely to cost me? I do know that more than one racing acquaintance who rides in F1 and/or F2 (and tries to win, etc) has quoted the cost of a full season incorporating the winter series and the Nats at over $30K.

And that's just silly. Why can't I walk into a dealership, buy a bike off the floor, and go racing competitively against others on the same equipment without spending money on anything but tyres and fuel?



Quoted for truth!

Whilst this answer is a slight oversimplification...............because they are made as road bikes, not true race bikes. If they were made as race bikes then they wouldnt need all the mods that are done the world over. And quality aftermarket suspension manufacturers wouldnt exist, wouldnt need to exist. The fact they do and do a roaring trade speaks volumes in itself

[Robert Taylor]

Robert T, A little off topic, im interested to know the meaning of "maxed inwards" in your earlier post.

Clickers fully inwards, at max damping AND still deficient in damping for proper / ideal machine control

[R6_kid]

Why can't I walk into a dealership, buy a bike off the floor, and go racing competitively against others on the same equipment without spending money on anything but tyres and fuel?

They're called HRC kit bikes, and you have to ask nicely for one at your local honda stealership. I believe they do a CBR600RR and a CBR1000RR 'factory race bike' - cant ever be road registered

Otherwise you can move to Australia, go to your local Yamaha Dealership, show them that you are signed up and paid up for the Yamaha FZ6 cup, hand over $12k, and have a race prepped (ohlins suspension + full exhaust etc) FZ6 delivered to you're house. And at the end of the year, you can sell it as a road bike with all the road gear as well.

[Robert Taylor]

Sorry mate...that's utter bullshit! We've seen with the move from 1000cc GP bikes to 800cc's that going 'round corners faster = bigger and NASTIER crashes! So going round corners on bikes with 'Ohlins' faster than you can with stock suspenders = the same thing! WORK it out!!??



Sorry AGAIN! Crap. If you didn't crash for a whole season...it's because you were riding at a speed you were comfortable with, and you were unwilling to go beyond that speed to find the true limit of how fast your 'Ohlins' suspended bike could go.

Racing is indeed a true test of man and machine...that's why a true 'man' will rise above the rest even on stock equipment. Don't you find it 'odd' that THE most successful road racers ever to come out NZ raced 'Proddie' bikes? Graeme Crosby, the Hiscock Bros, Robert Holden, Aaron Slight, Simon Crafar and Bruce Ainstey (not to mention the legends that were well before those guys that didn't have flash suspension)?

Were they a danger to themselves and others when the raced 'proddie' bikes? I think not. Get real. Social cricket? Sounds like you're riding 'scocially' on your 'Ohlins' equipped bike if you've never binned it.

Modern sports bikes are as safe as they come to road race. They have good brakes...good suspension, and need nothing more than balls and skill to ride faster than the next cunt.



I'm with you there...'Proddie racing' is, and always has been the bees kness!



Yeah mate...he shouldn't have been out there on those crappy old style tyres and brakes...he was obviously a danger to himself and everybody else!:sunny:



I'm sure you're only too aware that modern sports bikes have suspension that is VERY adjustable Robert. Yes we know that said adjustment is not as accurate and infinately adjustable as the Ohlins you continue to peddle is...but to say the 'Rider' learns "Very little if anything" is once again...BULLSHIT.

Racers of 'Production' bikes can learn this...
1:The difference tyre pressure makes
2:The difference spring (front and rear) preload makes.
3:The difference compression and rebound damping makes (both front and rear, and now often high and low speed as well)
4:The difference where the rear axle is placed in the swingarm.
5:The difference where the forks are in the triple clamps makes.
6:The difference a few extra litres of fuel makes.
7:The difference it makes when you sit differently on the bike.
8:The HUGE difference mental attitude can make.
9:....and my favorite one...the difference it makes when you're not beaten because you can't afford to spend the money some cunt that's slower than you can. THAT is the joy of 'Proddie' racing people!

Anyone that knocks proddie racing probably got their arse kicked trying to do so.

And for the record...I've won proddie races and races where I could do whatever the fuck I liked to the bike...but the Proddie races I've won were by far the sweetest!

As you were.:Punk:

Well the expletives were a little uncalled for. Unless Ive been dreaming for the last 10 years or so it seems odd that I recieve week upon week oem ''fully adjustable fork units'' that are anything but and are often maxed inwards. They are modified to work a lot better and with a better response range. Id best contact Paul Thede and Kenth Ohlin and tell him theres some bloke in Wellington thats offended they have a presence in the NZ market. Heck, Ohlins is over-exposed in the market ( a victim of good old Kiwi tall poppy syndrome ) Perhaps we shoUld say that about Suzuki as well. Yep, ridiculous over-emotional codswallop laced with expletives. SAD.
And singling Ohlins out, thats a bit uncalled for when there are a couple of other quality brands out there. You miss the point, sure you can crash at a higher speed but usually there is such a better perception of feel and when you are closer to the limit that crashing becomes a smaller likelihood.
if you have beaten people that are less skilled than you who have had the means to buy good gear then good on you. But just imagine how much further ahead of you they would have been had their riding skill been the same.
Anyway this is off topic. This is not about tall poppy syndrome, its about asking Shaun when his proposal is happening

[jrandom]

The fact they do and do a roaring trade speaks volumes in itself

They do a roaring trade because as soon as you allow that shit in the rules, one guy gets it and goes a bit faster because of it, and then every other guy has to have it to stay competitive. No other reason.

But riding stock bikes around racetracks is still shitloads of fun. It's ridiculous to state that you 'need' mods to race.

For that to happen, though, someone has to have the balls and the foresight to say "right, this here is a race meet where modified bikes aren't allowed".

All us poor cunts who just want to have a bit of fun on a racetrack can do is have a moan and hope that it gets heard by those in a position to do just that, so that we can vote with our feet and turn up on the starting grid.

[jrandom]

They're called HRC kit bikes, and you have to ask nicely for one at your local honda stealership. I believe they do a CBR600RR and a CBR1000RR 'factory race bike' - cant ever be road registered

I bet they're a tad pricier than the road versions though!


Otherwise you can move to Australia, go to your local Yamaha Dealership, show them that you are signed up and paid up for the Yamaha FZ6 cup, hand over $12k, and have a race prepped (ohlins suspension + full exhaust etc) FZ6 delivered to you're house.

Way hey hey!

And good on Yamaha for making that happen. A bit of that action over here would be just ducky.

[Crasherfromwayback]

And everyone keeps missing the point, we have controlled lower cost classes....

Like what class Robert? 150 Street Stock? On bikes that are no longer produced? 125GP? On bikes that once again need 'A' or 'B' kits fitted to win?

F3...where money wins?


Whilst this answer is a slight oversimplification...............because they are made as road bikes, not true race bikes. If they were made as race bikes then they wouldnt need all the mods that are done the world over. And quality aftermarket suspension manufacturers wouldnt exist, wouldnt need to exist. The fact they do and do a roaring trade speaks volumes in itself

GSXR's, CBR's, ZX's and YZF's are now basically race bikes with road gear Robert. A good punter (Mladin etc) on a new GSXR1000 (stock) would give Eddie Lawson a go on his old NSR. Fact.

There will always be an after market scene (so don't worry yourself to sleep), but that's not to say that 'production racing' ain't where it's at.

This thread is (and I know it's been said before...by me and many others Robert) all about PRODUCTION RACING.

Find yourself the 'Aftermarket suspension rules' thread and post till your merry heart's content in that.

Sean is trying to do a good thing for NZ road racing with this...don't matter if it happens or not.

Remember this though...how come now we have no true 'proddie racing' class we've not of late 'produced' any world class racers?

[gav]

Anyone that knocks proddie racing probably got their arse kicked trying to do so.

And for the record...I've won proddie races and races where I could do whatever the fuck I liked to the bike...but the Proddie races I've won were by far the sweetest!

As you were.:Punk:

:innocent: A mate of mine bought a Mk3 RG250 that was an ex Proddie race bike from a dealer that had supported the 250 proddy series. It had some "interesting" modifications or "interpretation" of the rules, so not to sure on the even playing field bit. :confused:
Certainly a series as proposed by Shaun would have to be the best bet to try and have a standard class.

[Cleve]

Isn't it about time Shaun told us what he has now that we have tried so hard to keep this thread going...

[gav]

Like what class Robert? 150 Street Stock? On bikes that are no longer produced? 125GP? On bikes that once again need 'A' or 'B' kits fitted to win?

F3...where money wins?

Pro Twins?

Remember this though...how come now we have no true 'proddie racing' class we've not of late 'produced' any world class racers?
Well, all the guys you mentioned took their abilities off shore and honed their skills racing overseas. Good to see the likes of Sam Smith doing a few races in Aus but really some of the younger guys need to quit NZ and head for Aus or even better Spain or the UK. I blame Andrew Stroud, while the old bugger keeps winning here in NZ it makes it a bit tougher for a young Kiwi to take a NZ champ title with them in their CV's. :oi-grr: :eek5:

[gav]

Isn't it about time Shaun told us what he has now that we have tried so hard to keep this thread going...
Yes, of course he should, otherwise I might end up having to move this thread to Pointless Drivel ...... :msn-wink:

[Robert Taylor]

Like what class Robert? 150 Street Stock? On bikes that are no longer produced? 125GP? On bikes that once again need 'A' or 'B' kits fitted to win?

F3...where money wins?



GSXR's, CBR's, ZX's and YZF's are now basically race bikes with road gear Robert. A good punter (Mladin etc) on a new GSXR1000 (stock) would give Eddie Lawson a go on his old NSR. Fact.

There will always be an after market scene (so don't worry yourself to sleep), but that's not to say that 'production racing' ain't where it's at.

This thread is (and I know it's been said before...by me and many others Robert) all about PRODUCTION RACING.

Find yourself the 'Aftermarket suspension rules' thread and post till your merry heart's content in that.

Sean is trying to do a good thing for NZ road racing with this...don't matter if it happens or not.

Remember this though...how come now we have no true 'proddie racing' class we've not of late 'produced' any world class racers?

I thought this forum was a democracy and I have just as much right as anyone else to make positive and opposing comments in any thread. As far as I am aware we have also just got rid of a system that tried to tell everyone what they could and couldnt do. All such attitudes that have rubbed off should be ideally exorcised.
Pro Twins is a relatively affordable class, to state the obvious. If you have a beer income its best to not have champagne tastes.
Current bikes are in relative terms very poor racebikes because the engine power and chassis loads are ever more disproportionate to the capabilities of the suspension, which certainly hasnt advanced at the same pace. ( My whole point ) But we can agree to disagree. And in a further generalised reply it must be pointed out that we sell and modify many suspension units for road going bikes that never ever see a race track, because of the deficiencies of the oem gear.
On balance it seems from my own experience that there is a silent and substanial number of riders who have the means to fit good gear, according to my own sales figures. Why discriminate against them ( effectively )?
But I do wish Shaun the best with this even though I cannot see how it can even return a modest profit for him ( which he should get for all the considerable effort required ) My personal view is that if it does get off the ground and gets more people on seats then it will help to strengthen the elite classes.
To blame a lack of world class racers cannot be singled out on the current two elite classes. What may have worked in the past in no way means that it will work in a very much changed world. The answers and reasons are much much more complex than many think.

[k14]

125GP? On bikes that once again need 'A' or 'B' kits fitted to win?
Not sure about your other statements but that one is just plain wrong. Cam Jones won last years title on a bog standard 96 RS125. The year before Cam Horgan won the title on a very close to standard 2001 RS125. As I always say, 80% rider 20% bike.

[Mishy]

:innocent: A mate of mine bought a Mk3 RG250 that was an ex Proddie race bike from a dealer that had supported the 250 proddy series. It had some "interesting" modifications or "interpretation" of the rules, so not to sure on the even playing field bit. :confused:
Certainly a series as proposed by Shaun would have to be the best bet to try and have a standard class.

Yes, back when the 250 proddie bikes were the thing it was certainly "may the best cheat go faster" and that's widely known. i've seen Kawasaki's with outageous shocks disguised as standard, race kit ECU's, Honda's with god know's what cylinders, Suzuki's with wheels that were too wide, and all other types of S@#t that wasn't legal. At least we don't have that now . . . . . . .

[Sketchy_Racer]

Another thing to think about, is with all this talk of after market goodies and especially young riders this will affect, is the mental side of this.

With all the hoo haa about how important aftermarket stuff is, a young rider will get it into thier head that it is impossible to win unless they have all the gear.

I dare say that a NZ top level rider could quite comfortably go out and own a club series on a stock bike. There is still potential to do amazing lap times on stock equipment. I remember Jay doing something like 1:09s round manfeild on a bog stock bike. Not only a testament to his skill, but that OEM gear can still go 'fast'

If someone did 1:09s at the VMCC winter series, they would have cleaned up the whole feild with a second a lap to spare!

Why not learn to get the most out of what you have before spending large sums on equipment to later find out that the limitation is infact yourself and not the bike?

I believe the best class that could exist alongside the current classes in NZ at the moment would be 100% BOG stock 600 supersport bikes, with a limitation for one set of tyres per meeting. Cheap and awesome racing is what it would be.

Imagine, a national round would cost you no more than fuel and a set of tyres essentially.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Not sure about your other statements but that one is just plain wrong. Cam Jones won last years title on a bog standard 96 RS125. The year before Cam Horgan won the title on a very close to standard 2001 RS125. As I always say, 80% rider 20% bike.


That's exactly what I'm saying though mate...goes to show you what you can do with the skill/balls you need!

But you see..there were probably racers in that class that got beat by someone with a bigger cheque book too!

[Mishy]

Sorry mate...that's utter bullshit! We've seen with the move from 1000cc GP bikes to 800cc's that going 'round corners faster = bigger and NASTIER crashes! So going round corners on bikes with 'Ohlins' faster than you can with stock suspenders = the same thing! WORK it out!!??



Sorry AGAIN! Crap. If you didn't crash for a whole season...it's because you were riding at a speed you were comfortable with, and you were unwilling to go beyond that speed to find the true limit of how fast your 'Ohlins' suspended bike could go.


I'm sure you're only too aware that modern sports bikes have suspension that is VERY adjustable Robert. Yes we know that said adjustment is not as accurate and infinately adjustable as the Ohlins you continue to peddle is...but to say the 'Rider' learns "Very little if anything" is once again...BULLSHIT.

Racers of 'Production' bikes can learn this...
1:The difference tyre pressure makes
2:The difference spring (front and rear) preload makes.
3:The difference compression and rebound damping makes (both front and rear, and now often high and low speed as well)
4:The difference where the rear axle is placed in the swingarm.
5:The difference where the forks are in the triple clamps makes.
6:The difference a few extra litres of fuel makes.
7:The difference it makes when you sit differently on the bike.
8:The HUGE difference mental attitude can make.
9:....and my favorite one...the difference it makes when you're not beaten because you can't afford to spend the money some cunt that's slower than you can. THAT is the joy of 'Proddie' racing people!

Um, that's a lot you have to say there ! I have no problem with production racing, and wish Shaun well, but not at the expence of one of our premier classes.
It's an UNDENIABLE FACT that good suspension saves tyre, and therefore cash. I worked on tyres with 6 riders last year, and I KNOW THIS. It's also fairly clear that good suspension gives most "average" riders a good margin to make mistakes without getting into trouble, and it's also fairly clear that the more powerfull the bike, the more easily it overcomes tha standard rear suspension unit. Modern sports bikes are a razor sharp tool compared with the older sports bikes (or worse) that some might have raced, and the tyres are more like racing slicks than road tyres - It's just the way technology has advanced - and they behave just like that. You just have to consider this when talking rules for production bikes, because it colours things differently.

You can wind the clickers on a sports bike all you like - you'll just tie the shock up and just won't be changing the things that matter, and you'll be wasting your time. Fork height makes a bike steer quicker or slower - but has stuff all effect on anything more meaningful - the big changes are done dynamically - with shock or fork valving, and stock is just no good for that, which leads to a whole bunch of other bad things - tearing tyres to bits is one of them.

Bruce Anstey cut his teeth on production bikes, but he also whined like a stuck pig when the GSXR he rode out here a few years ago didn't have the right suspension for him. Even guys like him aspire to better, more sophisticated machinery, and a lot of that is to do with suspension

Having said all that, I believe there is a place for a stock class - but one which suits stock suspension (less powerful that 600SP) and tied to tyres that are more forgiving on machinery and suspension of this type. it would be great to see more of the guys racing at club level get up and go to national events. We just need to accept that for 600SP and SBK it's appropriate for the best guys on the best bikes to be allowed to use the appropriate suspension and tyres for the job, and that It's VITAL to have 600SP as a feeder class for SBK that gives riders and teams a chance to learn to use the technology required to make the step up to the premier class. Craig Shirriffs got going quickly on SBK partly because of talent and determination, but also partly because he was familiar with the suspension technology, and had a race engineer who had an exceptional underatanding of it as well.
Maybe Pro Twins missed the boat a little on the budget front, that's a matter of opinion, and maybe Shaun's venture will be able to provide better bang for buck ( I hope so mate) We'll need to see how all that pans out, and I think it's going to be kinda interesting :)

[Mishy]

I remember Jay doing something like 1:09s round manfeild on a bog stock bike. Not only a testament to his skill, but that OEM gear can still go 'fast'

If someone did 1:09s at the VMCC winter series, they would have cleaned up the whole feild with a second a lap to spare!

Yeah, Jays bike (R6) had an ohlins in the back for that meeting (kindly lent by Brian Bernard), and his times were way slower, and way less consistant with the stock unit before we changed. Yes, stock can go fast, but you can go WAY FASTER for longer on something better, and that's when It's more fun. Imagine something that handled like your RS250 but with 20 more HP - now that's fun fun fun :)

[Crasherfromwayback]

Um, that's a lot you have to say there ! I have no problem with production racing, and wish Shaun well, but not at the expence of one of our premier classes.
It's an UNDENIABLE FACT that good suspension saves tyre, and therefore cash. I worked on tyres with 6 riders last year, and I KNOW THIS. It's also fairly clear that good suspension gives most "average" riders a good margin to make mistakes without getting into trouble, and it's also fairly clear that the more powerfull the bike, the more easily it overcomes tha standard rear suspension unit. Modern sports bikes are a razor sharp tool compared with the older sports bikes (or worse) that some might have raced, and the tyres are more like racing slicks than road tyres - It's just the way technology has advanced - and they behave just like that. You just have to consider this when talking rules for production bikes, because it colours things differently.

You can wind the clickers on a sports bike all you like - you'll just tie the shock up and just won't be changing the things that matter, and you'll be wasting your time. Fork height makes a bike steer quicker or slower - but has stuff all effect on anything more meaningful - the big changes are done dynamically - with shock or fork valving, and stock is just no good for that, which leads to a whole bunch of other bad things - tearing tyres to bits is one of them.

Bruce Anstey cut his teeth on production bikes, but he also whined like a stuck pig when the GSXR he rode out here a few years ago didn't have the right suspension for him. Even guys like him aspire to better, more sophisticated machinery, and a lot of that is to do with suspension

Having said all that, I believe there is a place for a stock class - but one which suits stock suspension (less powerful that 600SP) and tied to tyres that are more forgiving on machinery and suspension of this type. it would be great to see more of the guys racing at club level get up and go to national events. We just need to accept that for 600SP and SBK it's appropriate for the best guys on the best bikes to be allowed to use the appropriate suspension and tyres for the job, and that It's VITAL to have 600SP as a feeder class for SBK that gives riders and teams a chance to learn to use the technology required to make the step up to the premier class. Craig Shirriffs got going quickly on SBK partly because of talent and determination, but also partly because he was familiar with the suspension technology, and had a race engineer who had an exceptional underatanding of it as well.
Maybe Pro Twins missed the boat a little on the budget front, that's a matter of opinion, and maybe Shaun's venture will be able to provide better bang for buck ( I hope so mate) We'll need to see how all that pans out, and I think it's going to be kinda interesting :)

Ummm...that's a lot you've got to say too mate!

I know Bruce Ainstey well. Managed to beat him to the NZ 250TT title in '91' racing 250 'proddie'. He's a good friend of mine. Bruce has never 'whined like a stuck pig'...and never will. Not his style.

All of you people seem to forget the ONE big issue here...and with NZ road racing as a whole. That is...ever since we've not had true 'Proddie racing'...we've not produced a racer of world class.

Name one? If I'm wrong...I'll happily admit it. If you can't...admit it yourself, and get in behind it.

[gav]

Ummm...that's a lot you've got to say too mate!

I know Bruce Ainstey well. Managed to beat him to the NZ 250TT title in '91' racing 250 'proddie'. He's a good friend of mine. Bruce has never 'whined like a stuck pig'...and never will. Not his style.

All of you people seem to forget the ONE big issue here...and with NZ road racing as a whole. That is...ever since we've not had true 'Proddie racing'...we've not produced a racer of world class.

Name one? If I'm wrong...I'll happily admit it. If you can't...admit it yourself, and get in behind it.

How about Dom Jones?
I already commented on this too,
Well, all the guys you mentioned took their abilities off shore and honed their skills racing overseas. Good to see the likes of Sam Smith doing a few races in Aus but really some of the younger guys need to quit NZ and head for Aus or even better Spain or the UK. I blame Andrew Stroud, while the old bugger keeps winning here in NZ it makes it a bit tougher for a young Kiwi to take a NZ champ title with them in their CV's.

[Kickaha]

All of you people seem to forget the ONE big issue here...and with NZ road racing as a whole. That is...ever since we've not had true 'Proddie racing'...we've not produced a racer of world class.


True "Proddie racing, really?

So we go back to "Proddie racing and we'll miraculosly have a new world class racer? (insert Tui add here)


We made up our own KR1SP's here in New Zealand for proddie racing back in '91'...much faster than a normal KR1S! 35mm carbs and reed blocks from the domestic only 'R' version...with 1.5mm shaved from the head...we raised the exhaust port by 1mm, and cleaned up the transfers. Things were great to ride albeit pretty peaky!!!

Doesn't sound very "Proddie" to me? , what exactly did the rules allow?

[Crasherfromwayback]

True "Proddie racing, really?

So we go back to "Proddie racing and we'll miraculosly have a new world class racer? (insert Tui add here)



Doesn't sound very "Proddie" to me? , what exactly did the rules allow?

That's because maybe you didn't and don't know that to be deemed a 'Production bike' you only had to have ten avail. Remember the Whire wheel Katanas? Do you not think they were made here for proddie racing mate? Black pipe GSX1100's? The KR1s was well down on power due to the 28mm carbs they ran...so we built ten with 35mm carbs from the domestic KR1R and had them homologated by Jim Doherty of the then NZACU. No problem.

[Robert Taylor]

Ummm...that's a lot you've got to say too mate!

I know Bruce Ainstey well. Managed to beat him to the NZ 250TT title in '91' racing 250 'proddie'. He's a good friend of mine. Bruce has never 'whined like a stuck pig'...and never will. Not his style.

All of you people seem to forget the ONE big issue here...and with NZ road racing as a whole. That is...ever since we've not had true 'Proddie racing'...we've not produced a racer of world class.

Name one? If I'm wrong...I'll happily admit it. If you can't...admit it yourself, and get in behind it.

Yes Mishy did have a lot to say and it made perfect sense. As he has an intimate understanding of tyres and how they interact with his own higher level of suspension set up knowledge I believe he is more qualified to comment with sound answers than some of the (frankly ) emotional and less than informed posts on this thread.
Bruce Anstey lost that series because the forks he was given to run were stock standard ( aside from some K-tech lower compression adjusters, a band aid and actually illegal at that time ) and as it turned out there were riders that were better than him in the dry races.
To infer that true production racing is what we need to produce world class racers is frankly a very big call. Concedingly, it would help to do so ( but only help ) if it raised competitor numbers. The rest of the world has moved on and we have to be in tune with that.
With the greatest respect to Shauns proposal a true production series would allow every brand to compete within a series i.e inclusion for every preferred flavour.
And another point, when one harks back to the days of wire wheel GSXs etc who fairly calls who the most creative cheats in the business were?

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

Hey Mishy and Robert, you guys are engineers, as such, you will always want to work with the best tools. Thats fine.

Racers just wanna race, and the cheaper the better. As long as everyones in the same boat, any "formula" will work. But to encourage partipants, we need low barriers to racing, ESPECIALLY in a tough economic climate.

If has been pointed out that the VMCC fields are massive in comparison to nationals fields. A way of encouraging these club riders into steping up is a production class. It will only benefit road racing.

Go to any MX meet and as a road racer, it is staggering to see the large fields and large spectator turnout. MX racing is widely accessable. Brand new bikes can be had for less than 10k and many standard bikes are raced (competively). MX is so grass roots and very NZ. Road racing in NZ has an elitest overtone. I feel this attitude is hurting the sport.

Its frustrating that the powers to be make more consideration for the needs of industry than that of the riders. Give riders want they want.

Personally, I have raced street stock. I made a start in pro-twins but I found the SV engine to be quite lazy and unsatisfying to race. These lower cost classes are great for some but not for all.

Bring on proddie racing with decent bikes.

[Robert Taylor]

Hey Mishy and Robert, you guys are engineers, as such, you will always want to work with the best tools. Thats fine.

Racers just wanna race, and the cheaper the better. As long as everyones in the same boat, any "formula" will work. But to encourage partipants, we need low barriers to racing, ESPECIALLY in a tough economic climate.

If has been pointed out that the VMCC fields are massive in comparison to nationals fields. A way of encouraging these club riders into steping up is a production class. It will only benefit road racing.

Go to any MX meet and as a road racer, it is staggering to see the large fields and large spectator turnout. MX racing is widely accessable. Brand new bikes can be had for less than 10k and many standard bikes are raced (competively). MX is so grass roots and very NZ. Road racing in NZ has an elitest overtone. I feel this attitude is hurting the sport.

Its frustrating that the powers to be make more consideration for the needs of industry than that of the riders. Give riders want they want.

Personally, I have raced street stock. I made a start in pro-twins but I found the SV engine to be quite lazy and unsatisfying to race. These lower cost classes are great for some but not for all.

Bring on proddie racing with decent bikes.

Actually, many many road racers want the best possible setup, it would be naive to think that everyone wants institutionalised mediocrity.
Have you been to MX Nationals recently? If not check out what suspension is currently the points leader in MX1, MX2, 125 Senior and Junior. These guys want good suspension and know the value of same.

[Shaun]

Isn't it about time Shaun told us what he has now that we have tried so hard to keep this thread going...



When the buisness plan is complete, all will be told Cleve.

I have read every post in this thread so far, and there are 2 men on here, that ARE going to be a part of this, ans asked to help with the drawing up the final plan for the series.

$200k Plus is a lot of money to be out laying based on Passion, I belive this class structure will bring out many many.

I am very interested in talking with and SERIOUS people, RE a % of owner ship of this programme, if you are interested, you can all see my phone number.

[roogazza]

Well, all the guys you mentioned took their abilities off shore and honed their skills racing overseas. [/I]

Gav , sure they honed their skills overseas , but guys like Crosby and Hiscocks etc, were fast before they went. We knew they were pretty good and world class the way they operated here !

I was pretty tight with both Hissys' in those years and could relate some funny quotes and tales. ( but I don't do long posts ! ) Gaz. :corn:

[Shaun]

How about Dom Jones?
I already commented on this too,
Well, all the guys you mentioned took their abilities off shore and honed their skills racing overseas. Good to see the likes of Sam Smith doing a few races in Aus but really some of the younger guys need to quit NZ and head for Aus or even better Spain or the UK. I blame Andrew Stroud, while the old bugger keeps winning here in NZ it makes it a bit tougher for a young Kiwi to take a NZ champ title with them in their CV's.


Dom Jones has NOT raced for nealy 12 or more months DUE to things happening in the USA, and even Hayden Fitgerald got his arse handed to him in the UK last year, so please come up with a way to help bring the culture out Gav

[jrandom]

... it would be naive to think that everyone wants institutionalised mediocrity.

'Institutionalised mediocrity'?

What rubbish.

Robert, I kinda get the feeling that you don't empathise with the idea that we just want to have fun racing motorcycles, and that halving the cost could well double participation in the sport.

Motorcycle racing doesn't have to be anywhere near as expensive as it is right now. That's the whole point of this thread.

[Sketchy_Racer]

New class.

Bog stock 600s. (running in with supersport)

One set of tyres per meeting.

So meeting cost would be set of second hand tyres ($150 +/-) and entry fee ($100 +/-) and fuel ($50 +/-)

Fun for dollars = HUGE

[jrandom]

New class.

Bog stock 600s. (running in with supersport) ...

Fun for dollars = HUGE

Now that's what I'm talking about!

[sidecar bob]

we just want to have fun racing motorcycles, and that halving the cost could well double participation in the sport.

Motorcycle racing doesn't have to be anywhere near as expensive as it is right now. That's the whole point of this thread.

Check out dodgy old Scrivy, owns lap records on an old heap of shit that nobody else in the country could even run as a mid fielder & hes having a ball!

[svr]

New class.

Bog stock 600s. (running in with supersport)

One set of tyres per meeting.

So meeting cost would be set of second hand tyres ($150 +/-) and entry fee ($100 +/-) and fuel ($50 +/-)

Fun for dollars = HUGE

That's the formula, I think. Wouldn't be slow, either.

Hordes of ex mxer kids and a few old hands handlebar to handlebar, the best rider winning, and the rest learning and thinking hard about their riding. That would produce / attract some talent. MotorSPORT

Institutionalised mediocrity? No, thats Motor$port.
If rugby boots cost $30k at what level would rugby be played? - a mediocre level.

[jrandom]

If rugby boots cost $30k at what level would rugby be played? - a mediocre level.

Fuckin' amen to that.

[wharfy]

Single class racing is a common way of identifying/developing talent in many sports.
New Zealand has been racing P-Class sailing dingy's for years.
They are REALLY slow and HARD to sail and the rules are pretty tight.
The names of the winners on the Tanner cup and Tauranga cup read like a who's who of America's Cup and Olympic yachting. They are one of the reasons NZ is a FORCE in international yachting. I have done a wee bit of sailing but I sure wouldn't want to race one of those. If I wanted to race sailboats I would probably go for a laser or cat now.

The point of this post IS ?

Sailing in NZ has single class racing at almost every level from P-Class to Sunbursts to hi-tech catamarans and keel boats. The world match racing series is a single design and moderately priced (for a yacht).

So I think a moderately priced (for a motorcycle) single class (i.e. single make and model) would be of great benefit to NZ motorcycle racing. I doesn't matter whether they have stock suspension or after market as long as they are all the same. But if the stock suspension is "adequate" and can be sprung to match the riders weight then save the money.


The "formula" classes should be retained.

[CM2005]

i want a class in which old superbikes are competitve.. i.e if i bought a '98 SRAD 750, i would only have the superbike class to run it in.

as for a new proddie class, if $5000 got me a standard GSXRCBRZXRRR for the season,. hell yeah I'm gonna ride it.

[gav]

i want a class in which old superbikes are competitve.. i.e if i bought a '98 SRAD 750, i would only have the superbike class to run it in.

as for a new proddie class, if $5000 got me a standard GSXRCBRZXRRR for the season,. hell yeah I'm gonna ride it.
But why expect to be able to buy a 98 GSXR and race it competitively? You could run it in Clubmens or else look at the various classes and choose a bike that is more suitable. You could always buy a Pre 89 GSXR and run in that class, or maybe a modified GSXR600 in F3? An RS125 maybe for the 125 class?
As a racer I'd rather not have an extra class added to an already busy schedule, by all means if it can slot into an existing class then thats fine.
Not too sure about the elitist claim either. At the last round at Ruapuna we had racing the current 125 champ, the 600 champ and the NZ Superbike champ, not a bad turn out!

[Robert Taylor]

That's the formula, I think. Wouldn't be slow, either.

Hordes of ex mxer kids and a few old hands handlebar to handlebar, the best rider winning, and the rest learning and thinking hard about their riding. That would produce / attract some talent. MotorSPORT

Institutionalised mediocrity? No, thats Motor$port.
If rugby boots cost $30k at what level would rugby be played? - a mediocre level.

You have series such as VMCC etc, why pick on the Nationals?

[gav]

Bog Stock 600's aye? Bit like those bog stock 250 proddy bikes I guess .... :Oops:

[Robert Taylor]

'Institutionalised mediocrity'?

What rubbish.

Robert, I kinda get the feeling that you don't empathise with the idea that we just want to have fun racing motorcycles, and that halving the cost could well double participation in the sport.

Motorcycle racing doesn't have to be anywhere near as expensive as it is right now. That's the whole point of this thread.

Check out my most recent posts in a parrallell thread subject. There exists a case for both lower cost and more expensive class formula. Yes of course people want to have fun racing motorcycles, and yet more fun. Funny how people keep asking me for set up help?
And the point is missed that there are many in all forms of motorsport who want to be the best and to understand the engineering, you dont want to cater for them?

[Robert Taylor]

That's the formula, I think. Wouldn't be slow, either.

Hordes of ex mxer kids and a few old hands handlebar to handlebar, the best rider winning, and the rest learning and thinking hard about their riding. That would produce / attract some talent. MotorSPORT

Institutionalised mediocrity? No, thats Motor$port.
If rugby boots cost $30k at what level would rugby be played? - a mediocre level.

Heck, better ban modified and aftermarket suspension in MX right now! Dont want those crossover charlies from MX demanding better suspension when they hit the tarmac..........

[Robert Taylor]

Dom Jones has NOT raced for nealy 12 or more months DUE to things happening in the USA, and even Hayden Fitgerald got his arse handed to him in the UK last year, so please come up with a way to help bring the culture out Gav

Candidly, with Hayden it had quite a bit to do with that poxy Maxton suspension they made him race on. He was not happy with it at all.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Well the expletives were a little uncalled for. Unless Ive been dreaming for the last 10 years or so it seems odd that I recieve week upon week oem ''fully adjustable fork units'' that are anything but and are often maxed inwards.

Perhaps we shoUld say that about Suzuki as well. Yep, ridiculous over-emotional codswallop laced with expletives. SAD.

And singling Ohlins out, thats a bit uncalled for when there are a couple of other quality brands out there.
.
Anyway this is off topic. This is not about tall poppy syndrome, its about asking Shaun when his proposal is happening

First of all Robert...I could understand if you were upset by the use of my vocabulary if said four letter words were directed at you. They weren't...so you need to get over yourself. If you're offended by me saying "go faster than the next cunt" or whatever it was...you need to log on to www.godfearingdogooders.com.

'Sad'? I'll tell you what I think is 'Sad'. I think it's SAD that you have nothing else to say on this site other than 'stock suspension is no jolly good'. Oh I'm sure if I spent a week or more looking I could find a post or two of yours that doesn't say such...but I really can't be fucked.

Do I single out 'Ohlins'? Yep...because I've not found a 'White Power' or Showa' rep here that does nothing but promote their goods on any and every post regarding anything motorcycling. If I did...I'd tell them to give it a rest too.

And off topic? Well Robert...the thread is/WAS about 'true production racing was/is it not?

So are you not the one the keeps taking it off said subject??


I thought this forum was a democracy and I have just as much right as anyone else to make positive and opposing comments in any thread.

Current bikes are in relative terms very poor racebikes because the engine power and chassis loads are ever more disproportionate to the capabilities of the suspension, which certainly hasnt advanced at the same pace. ( My whole point ) But we can agree to disagree. And in a further generalised reply it must be pointed out that we sell and modify many suspension units for road going bikes that never ever see a race track, because of the deficiencies of the oem gear.

.

Of course it's not a democracy...it's a fucking website! We say what we think...people either agree and say so...or don't and say so. There's no 'vote'.

And you shouldn't care that I (and others) wind you up. I sure as fuck don't.

Now then..."Current bikes"? Are you fucking (love that word) kidding me? "Current bikes" have suspension that is so much closer to power outputs than they ever were! Have you never ridden an H1...or a Z1? The power output was ten times better than the suspension and chassis. I owned a Z1RTC, and I know all about power vs chassis. We're all spoilt now. Modern sports motorcycles are better now than most of us are riders.

I think it's great that discerning riders want to improve the ride quality of their bikes by spending money with you...and I'll never argue that you don't give them that. I've said it before Robert, and I'll say it again. I've heard nothing but good reports about the work you do. You're obviously incredibly good at what you know and do. I'm not out to in anyway try and take work away from you...and from reading your posts...it sounds like you've got too much on your plate at any one time anyway.

And that's great. But why can't you leave a post about 'Production racing' alone?


Yes Mishy did have a lot to say and it made perfect sense. As he has an intimate understanding of tyres and how they interact with his own higher level of suspension set up knowledge I believe he is more qualified to comment with sound answers than some of the (frankly ) emotional and less than informed posts on this thread.

To infer that true production racing is what we need to produce world class racers is frankly a very big call.

The rest of the world has moved on and we have to be in tune with that.
With the greatest respect to Shauns proposal a true production series would allow every brand to compete within a series i.e inclusion for every preferred flavour.


Who's 'Mishy'?

I asked a reasonably simple question regarding the demise of 'production racing' Robert. It went something like this...name ONE road racer that's set the world on fire since we've not had a proper 'proddie class'. Gav (I think it was) at least answered with "Dom Jones'. You haven't...'Mishy' hasn't!

You all dance around the question with fancy replies...but you've got no answer!

And has the rest of the world moved on...I mean have they really?

Do they not have the Red Bull Rookies Cup? Is this not a ONE MAKE series to see what youngster can actually ride better than the next? Didn't James Toseland come from something like the Honda GB500 Cup or something? Don't the Poms have an R6 cup...then move the winner of that onto a Superbike?

Didn't Ben Bostrom win the AMA 883 Twinsport (one make again hate to say it) series?


Actually, many many road racers want the best possible setup, it would be naive to think that everyone wants institutionalised mediocrity.
.

'Institutionalised'? Yep...the thing is this...if you preach the sky is falling often enough, a certain percentage of the population will eventually believe you.

They may even do something about it.

The rest of us will trust our own judgment.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Check out my most recent posts in a parrallell thread subject. There exists a case for both lower cost and more expensive class formula. Yes of course people want to have fun racing motorcycles, and yet more fun. Funny how people keep asking me for set up help?
And the point is missed that there are many in all forms of motorsport who want to be the best and to understand the engineering, you dont want to cater for them?

Answer:

Bog stock 600s. (running in with supersport)
One set of tyres per meeting.

We can cater for both people who want and can afford the best (and still have option to use quality after market gear) and those who want to race on a budget.

Essentially Protwins and F3. But I feel they really dropped the ball in F3 on a few subjects. One being the suspension mods and cam timing.

[jrandom]

And the point is missed that there are many in all forms of motorsport who want to be the best and to understand the engineering, you dont want to cater for them?

No problem with that. How about we run the open-slather formula classes alongside the proddie ones and just wait and see which take off, eh?

[Kickaha]

New class.

Bog stock 600s. (running in with supersport)

One set of tyres per meeting.



Wasn't the original tyre rule for the 600 class "one set per meeting" ?
(around 2001-02)

[vtec]

There's tonnes of classes for you and mishy to ply your trades and sell your wares, in fact currently the only class that you can't is streetstock (250 4's and 150 2's). There needs to be more stock racing above the level of streetstock racing for people to prove their abilities to themselves and potential sponsors so that they can then afford to step up and have some idea of how they will go in a modified class.

I repeat it is not a safety issue. Thousands of races have been run in the past on bikes with crap tyres and crap suspension, crashing is entirely up to the rider pushing his equipment too far.

You seem to take it personally that we would be happy racing without your fantastic and wonderful suspension. All I can say to that is ... don't. We are not out to hurt your feelings, you are good but there is only so much Robert Taylor to go around, and when I was racing nationals and just bought a $300 spring off you, you had your hands full with all the top guys like stroud and smith and shirriffs and the aussie guys. I don't blame you at all, but until there are 10 Robert Taylors running around helping all the racers there will not be a level playing field in terms of suspension setup. I don't like to play with suspension cause I'm worried I'll make changes that will hurt my performance, and I hate having to worry about it when I'm out on the track, second guessing my suspension setup changes. Cause I do worry because I don't have an expert helping me.

I've found riding a bike with crap suspension namely a CBR250RR with next to no adjustability I could still get my knee on the deck and have my elbow touching my knee around Philip Island and Winton. In fact my first ever time on Winton and I won $200 prize money and all 3 of my 250 4 stroke races, and the bike was bog stock. All my competitors had very well modified bikes. I'll attach a pic of the bike. It was not a death trap because I found it's limit without crashing. Same goes for 600's yes they are more powerful, but the brakes are the same and they have to try to corner at similar speeds. Only difference is being on the power out of the corners, and the speed at which you start braking, and a bit of difference in speed through the highspeed corners. Although modern 600's have suspension a hundred times better than the CBR250RR and they weigh similar. I repeat it is not a safety issue.

And Jay, you've ridden RG150's around Manfeild and done some great laptimes, they had crap tyres, was it a safety issue? If you had crashed wouldn't it have been because you were pushing it too far?

From what I've seen people often blame their equipment when they've just been pushing as hard as someone with better equipment and they've come a cropper, if you wanted to stop that and decrease costs, put them all on even and fair equipment... ie. stock suspension. I repeat there is really only room for 1 or 2 modified classes in NZ, currently we only have 1 unmodified class and it's not available at Nationals. Gay!

[Crasherfromwayback]

I've found riding a bike with crap suspension namely a CBR250RR with next to no adjustability I could still get my knee on the deck and have my elbow touching my knee around Philip Island and Winton. In fact my first ever time on Winton and I won $200 prize money and all 3 of my 250 4 stroke races, and the bike was bog stock. All my competitors had very well modified bikes. I'll attach a pic of the bike.

And Jay, you've ridden RG150's around Manfeild and done some great laptimes, they had crap tyres, was it a safety issue? If you had crashed wouldn't it have been because you were pushing it too far?

Way to go mate!!!

And do you mean 'Jay' that raced the Museum Hotel ZX6? I could be outta line here...but I think if that's the 'Jay'...he had all sorts of problems with handling 'issues'. Does anyone know if his (if that's the 'J' in question) ZX6 was running stock suspension??? Bet it wasn't.

[vtec]

Yeah we're talking about the same Jay, doesn't matter how good your suspension is, at some point on any equipment you are going to find "problems" ie. the limit. hahaha.

He did do some insane times on his ZX6 when it did have standard suspension though.

Oh yeah, and first time on Philip Island I came second for the round and got the $100 prize money. The other guy had a much quicker bike and I nearly beat him in the last race, I was seeing 200kph (indicated) drafting behind him

[jrandom]

And do you mean 'Jay' that raced the Museum Hotel ZX6?

He does.

AKA JayRacer37 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php?u=7917) round these parts.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah we're talking about the same Jay,
He did do some insane times on his ZX6 when it did have standard suspension though.


Thought as much. Jay comes from good stock...his father is fucking handy on a bike!


He does.

AKA JayRacer37 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php?u=7917) round these parts.

I know him...was just checking it was one and the same 'Jay'!