How do you make an XR200R sound good?

[oldskool]

Waaay back in the 80's when I was just a... you'd just bolt on a supertrapp (or drill holes in the can), these clappers don't seem to be available now.

Anyone had experience with using a muffler from a pitbike or a Hummer on a small barrel jap bike? It looks like you can get them cheap enough from TM.

I'm not after performance gains, I'm after a deep throaty sound. But having said that I don't want to stuff my exhaust valve either!

Any suggestions welcome!

[CookMySock]

Theres some goon in wellington who makes noisy exhausts. I forget his brand name. Apparently they sound really good and they're cheap.

Steve

[slimjim]

a 200 too sound cool..:lol::lol::lol:..lordy an a Honda too...;)well back in the sev-ties we had Megaphones...

[Pedrostt500]

Um yea buy a bigger bike, or hunt around some of the older bike wreckers for the original supatrapp.

[AllanB]

One of these bad boys - check for inlet pipe size as there are three options on this website.

Its USA so works out about $100 NZ PLUS shipping.

http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp?skuId=442641&store=Main&catId=&productId=p442641&leafCatId=&mmyId=


Hmmmm now 4 of those on my Hornet .............

[avgas]

cut the exhaust off
those NC series motors sound better with straight pipes

[oldskool]

Theres some goon in wellington who makes noisy exhausts. I forget his brand name. Apparently they sound really good and they're cheap. Would that be the Koby Muffler?


One of these bad boys - check for inlet pipe size as there are three options on this website.
Its USA so works out about $100 NZ PLUS shipping.
http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/produc...fCatId=&mmyId=

I had a similar looking supertrapp with the sprung loaded single nut adjuster on an XR500RC, and it just blew off on the first blast. It used a weak hook system to hold it to the can. Once I got that fixed I lost the plates on my next ride as the loctited single nut just unwound with the thumps. Maybe on the 200R it might work.
But looks like that price may not include the plates.


Um yea buy a bigger bike, or hunt around some of the older bike wreckers for the original supatrapp.
The wreckers up here in AKL don't have any.

[AllanB]

Tell you what you can get in NZ is a 425 mm shorty megaphone muffler in chrome (bling for the XR). They have a removable end so you can muck around with the packing etc if required. Be warned they are 'loud'.

Under $100 bucks Emgo or WFO brand if I recall.

This would suit the bike.

[T.W.R]

20yrs ago it'd be the mandatory Powroll Kit :Punk:

Current best option for the job would be a Musket muffler

[Coyote]

Drill a hole in the stock exhaust.

[oldskool]

Tell you what you can get in NZ is a 425 mm shorty megaphone muffler in chrome (bling for the XR).
Sadly I'm not a *bling* type guy:mellow:, if I wanted to pimp up a dirt bike I'd get another TT500 :no:
425mm is just too long, I'm thinking along the lines of a BBR style pitbike can.

[oldskool]

Current best option for the job would be a Musket muffler
How awesome, thanks for the tip, http://www.mlbnz.co.nz/musket.asp
I'll be needing a manifold bend one day as mine has a bit of a dint in it. (from what I gather it is the length and bend of the pipe that tunes the all important impulse wave and the can suppresses the bark) Unfortunately they appear only to specialise in replicating stock mufflers, they do have a small range of 'universal' mufflers but I don't think their aim is to sell an aftermarket tuned can.

[oldskool]

Heres an example of what a HUMMER 200cc muffler sounds like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoMLpwPoY30&feature=related
and what a Honda CRF450 sounds like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqR6AEXwxoQ
There really isn't a lot in it, except the 450 is revved out higher to make all that air.
So what I wanna know is has anyone adapted a china made muffler to a jap bike and do I need to change the main jet?

[sugilite]

Theres some goon in wellington who makes noisy exhausts. I forget his brand name. Apparently they sound really good and they're cheap.

Steve

Do you mean Damon at Cycleworks? He is an expert and def makes them for this model...
http://www.cycleworks.co.nz/

[motorbyclist]

Any suggestions welcome!

haha i used to own one of those! great little machine and my neighbour still rides it!

when i bought mine from my uncle it had his homemade muffler that did very well til i munched the pipe in a race accident - my re-welding was just too brittle and would break by fatigue every 100 hours or so, so i went scrounging around the local engineering workshop skip and made my own 'tunable' one from some stainless pipe and RHS with aluminium endcaps :D

but if you want you could have my old muffler my uncle made - will need welding to a pipe

[oldskool]

when i bought mine from my uncle it had his homemade muffler that did very well til i munched the pipe in a race accident
Hiya motorbyclist. Tidy looking XR BTW
Where-abouts down the pipe is it munched? Do you know what bike he modded the can from? Did it have a good snarl and a throaty purr? Would it pass the forest noise nazi's?

[motorbyclist]

Hiya motorbyclist. Tidy looking XR BTW
Where-abouts down the pipe is it munched? Do you know what bike he modded the can from? Did it have a good snarl and a throaty purr? Would it pass the forest noise nazi's?

well when i broke the pipe it broke about where it passes/mounts that rear strut in the frame, so i cut the pipe off and welded on a bit of galv trampoline leg that already had the right bend in it:clap: (pictured in the stripped down photo)

then my crappy gas welding broke so i left the muffler cut at the base and built my stainless one. so it needs a new pipe welded to it (basically like any new muffler but without the slip on part)

i'm pretty sure the can was completely home made, and can't remember how loud it was but it was way better than other XR200s with stock pipes that's for sure! didn't get much nazi attention but that was back around 2003-2005 when they didn't really care

will go get a pic of it next time i'm down in the shed

[motorbyclist]

heck i've even got the old trampoline pipe too (welded to original mounting part of pipe)

muffler has no packing - just baffling by the holes in the pipe

i might add that the flange/megaphone part of the muffler may chop off a few knobs from your knobblies if you bend it badly enough and then bottom out - or break the pipe and leave the muffler dangling like i did. otherwise it's fine

that crap on the pipe was my attempt to seal the join to the rusted out header

[oldskool]

holy ####, :gob: I can see why you made another one for it. It looks heavy duty. I think there may be a bit of work to resurrect that to something I'd be proud to show to my mates :eek5: It's given me some ideas tho'.

Do you reckon you didn't get any loss in performance with that on?
What colour was your plug? It looks to me it may have run a little rich if anything...

:Offtopic:
Hey I see you're doing a mechatronics degree. Is that at Massey? I've recently built some grunty 300mm/sec linear actuators with optical encoder feedback ready for a 2DOF motion platform, they're pretty sweet.

[oldskool]

holy ####, :gob: I can see why you made another one for it. It looks heavy duty. I think there may be a bit of work to resurrect that to something I'd be proud to show to my mates :eek5: It's given me some ideas tho'.

Do you reckon you didn't get any loss in performance with that on?
What colour was your plug?

:Offtopic:
Hey I see you're doing a mechatronics degree. Is that at Massey? I've recently built some grunty 300mm/sec linear actuators with optical encoder feedback ready for a 2DOF motion platform, they're pretty sweet.

[motorbyclist]

haha yeah heavy duty sums it up well, though it's actually quite light and looks good with a fresh coat of high heat matt black

uncle got the mix right, when he fitted it and she ran mint as. when i built my new one i made it tunable so i could experiment with backpressure and it came out a tad better but not by much. i can't remember exactly which screw it was but if you DO go to play with the mix screw it's really bloody sensitive so 1/8 turns mean big changes in mix

turns out low pressure makes it run lean, and ruins the bottom end of the rev range (along with exhaust valves).
high pressure kills the top end revs and can run her rich.
read into scavenging effects etc and you might get an appreciation for why stock pipes are often so restrictive and are sometimes best left stock (up until the emissions laws came in that is)
both mufflers worked well... high compression pistons made a much more notable improvement on my brother's xr


note i was 15 or 16 at the time - that muffler has been sitting around in the "spares/broken/salvageable" pile for a few years now. got assorted bits to make one for the modern big bore motox bikes but they probably won't do too well on the XR


yeah i'm doing mechatronics at UofAuckland - gots me a whole damn robot i should be finishing :D

[oldskool]

Well if you think it will sound better than drilling some 10mm holes around the backplate, and if you're offering a donor, then I'll give it a go! Can't look at a gift horse in the mouth specially if it's even got a curved pipe to go with it!

I'd rather low end torque than top end. If I wanted speed I would have got a motorX. As long as I can pop the front up I'm happy. I'm more a zen type dirt rider. :laugh:

[motorbyclist]

i'm talking top end power in the revs - irrespective of speed

couldn't hurt to try - and i could attempt to weld it back together for you but no promises it'll last forever

[oldskool]

Alright! :Punk:

If I get a summers riding out of it I'll be happy. I'll reassess whether I want to move to a bigger bore bike come March. It will then depend whether we decide to get a fizz boat sooner than later, and if thats the case I'll stick with the XR - after all it is a legendary bike and the '86 model might just see me into the VMX class?

So you only played with the pilot screw and didn't change the main jet.. Well that sounds promising hey. Should be safe enuff to give it a burl.

The only other thing I may have to consider is a bit of wire mesh for a fire arrestor? Don't know what they are like up at the Sandpit, seems that's the only regular place to play my side of Aucks... Never been there yet.

[arj127]

I had Custom Chambers make one for my XR250 years ago. An awesome muffler and a fair price to i thought.

[oldskool]

arj127 I had Custom Chambers make one for my XR250 years ago. An awesome muffler and a fair price to i thought.
I just heard back from an enquiry I made to MLB Manufacturers - they make the Musket Mufflers brand, they couldn't help me but suggested Custom Chambers too.

Many thanks for your enquiry. Unfortunately we are unable to help with this muffler at this stage, however if you try Custom Chambers in Otahuhu they may be able to help you. Their phone number is 09 274 1155.
But I'm guessing they'd be too exxy and theres no way I can justify pouring hard earned money into a 22yr dirt bike... well not to my better half anyway! :no:

[oldskool]

Just drilled 5 holes into the back plate of the existing stock muffler. Jeez theres about 3mm of fresh steel plate there! The previous owner must have cleaned it up a bit and resprayed it. Anyway 3 holes are at 6.5mm and 2 at 4mm, and only because my bits went blunt! A noticeable difference in dB and more so when you block the holes with your fingertips to compare. A nice throb when idling but it all goes to custard when you rev it. None of that nice snarl, just a lot of noise sounding like just what it is - Noise escaping through little holes. I want a deeper throb and a crackling snarl. I've heard a good one today on youtube. The can is an ARROW, it sounded sweet. It's a short stubby fat can.

[motorbyclist]

So you only played with the pilot screw and didn't change the main jet.. Well that sounds promising hey. Should be safe enuff to give it a burl.

The only other thing I may have to consider is a bit of wire mesh for a fire arrestor? Don't know what they are like up at the Sandpit, seems that's the only regular place to play my side of Aucks... Never been there yet.

yep never had to touch the jets - though mine was an '83 model with the single exhaust valve - i believe yours is the less reliable double valve model ?

They don't check and don't ask - never been asked about arrestors and never ridden with one - one ride i went on up north required a fire extinguisher but seeing as they never checked and the "standard" was one so pitiful it'd struggle to put out a match i've never bothered.

[oldskool]

yep never had to touch the jets - though mine was an '83 model with the single exhaust valve - i believe yours is the less reliable double valve model ?
nup mine is the '86 model which reverted back to the 2 valve motor, and from what I've read it was the model that took the best of the original design and the '84/'85 advancements and from them made major improvements on the total package. I guess they had to, (or had to say they were major improvements anyway!) to regain loss of market dominance from the 4 valve disaster. Mine has still got the longer travel suspension but theres a story of an improvement on the prolink system which sometimes broke on the earlier models.

[arj127]

But I'm guessing they'd be too exxy and theres no way I can justify pouring hard earned money into a 22yr dirt bike... well not to my better half anyway! :no:

Depends on what you call a lot of money. Muffler cost me about $150 i think, shouldn't be a lot more now, theres f all to it anyways.
Gave me the sound i wanted for a small amount of coin.

[Wingnut]

ARJ127 - God I could watch your avatar for hours. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Anyway - I have nothing decent to add so - catch ya

[oldskool]

Well I paid $750 for the bike, but that included a helmut, the manual, 2 pairs of boots and a Fox skivvy. So anything more than $200 for a new can wouldn't add up in the scheme of things, specially when I know of someone who scored a mint supertrapp for $30! - speaking of supertrapps I'm wondering if the idea is similar to 'pulse width modulation' (PWM) in that the can gives out max dB but in quick doses. You adjust the volume by changing the frequency/duration of the max dB output. In this way you get a huge pulse of subsonic sound each time the plates open. dunno just a random thought.

[motorbyclist]

now i have no idea how a supertrapp works, but:

aren't deciBells a measure of amplitude?

as i'm sure you know, PWM just achieves an easily controlled average power output while using only one voltage/amplitude.

so a sound tester would measure the same amplitude, and i suspect it would just sound deeper at same volume. unfortunately, stopping the noise from the motor for PWM would require you to stop the motor/sound source

a more likely method of quietening (or loudening) a bike would be tuning the pipe for destructive (or constructive) interference of the sound waves

most stock mufflers use baffles to smooth out the peaks/valleys thus giving a lower (and therefore legal) dB rating. most aftermarkets just use fibreglass to absorb the sound energy to acheive the end effect without as much backpressure and thus higer flow, which the market demands.

so think of the muffler as an inductor/capacitor to smooth out the loud pulses from the motor, with a resistor to absorb the sound energy... or something like that...

correction welcome:pinch:

[motorbyclist]

here's what supertrapp has to say on the matter:


Removing discs decreases the exhaust opening and increases backpressure. This effectively decreases the powerband to create more low-end torque. It also decreases exhaust tone and enriches carburetion.

Adding discs increases the exhaust outlet and decreases back pressure. This widens the powerband at the top end. It also increases exhaust tone and leans out carburetion.

which is basically what i've said in earlier posts

and it's exactly how my tunable muffler worked, albeit by a different mechanism... which basically means even a spotty teenager could've come up with this "patented technology"


imo, moving parts in a muffler are a very bad idea, which would rule out your pwm idea unless they stuck a spring steel reed in there for some reason

[motorbyclist]

and on further thought:

PWM of sound would just acheive a change in the timbre (quality) of the sound

same amplitude(volume) and same frequency(pitch), just "sounds" different

[oldskool]

I had Custom Chambers make one for my XR250 years ago. An awesome muffler and a fair price to i thought.
I followed up ARJ127's suggestion. Custom Chambers over East Tamaki way will do a black can for $180 (usually same day) and add an extra $30 (and 4 days) if in silver. Not bad really, but would be a hassle to leave the bike over there on a working day tho'.

[oldskool]

@motorbyclist
wow amazing where a random thought may lead!
Yeah I follow you, your R/C filter analogy for a muffler sounds sane enuff!
For a sec there I half expected yah to allude to interference waves and phase shifting like what Mazda looked at in their electronic noise cancelling mufflers. I think they got it to the stage where you could dial up your own sound wave?

Anyway, do you reckon you can resurrect that curved pipe leading into the muffler?

[motorbyclist]

Anyway, do you reckon you can resurrect that curved pipe leading into the muffler?

seriously i doubt my welding is up to the task, but i'm sure there's people who could.

if i were you i'd go get some steel pipe of correct diamter and excessive length, figure out what bends you want, trace it out, and take it to a car muffler shop and pay a few bucks to have them do it on a hydraulic press for you.
which is basically what i did for the pipe in my square muffler.

then perhaps cut the pipe so it can slip over the conical part of my muffler and i'd be a fair bit more confident stick welding that on. more weld to hold it against fatigue and less likely to just burn away the end of the pipe trying to weld it


or buy one. that usually works.

[oldskool]

Yeah like I originally figured, good intentions but in reality too much effort for my precious spare time. It's all do-able and we know it, but the time saved for a few hundy spent on a guy who does it for a living is well worth the expense. (as long as I earn more than he does :laugh:)
The question remains on trusting a guy to come up with a sound I will like. Seems to me this part is a lucky dip on what is prob a standard can he will pull from the shelf. I guess I could go with the flock and get what the market dictates...not.
Still, that ARROW on an XR200 I heard on youtube sounded pretty good.

[motorbyclist]

Yeah like I originally figured, good intentions but in reality too much effort for my precious spare time. It's all do-able and we know it, but the time saved for a few hundy spent on a guy who does it for a living is well worth the expense.

yeah pretty much

it makes a fun project, but once you account for time taken it's often cheaper to get the pros to do it

although, if you DIY there's only one person to blame if it doesn't work

[oldskool]

LOL, being a proud and patriotic Kiwi, DIY is my middle name! Mind you when it comes to something like my DIY motion simulation platform, theres not a lot of pro's in NZ that could tackle the project and if there were I'd be looking at costs well into the mid 5 figures. So sometimes DIY is the only option!

[idleidolidyll]

How do you make an XR200R sound good?

cover it with canaries and then set it on fire

[Buster]

Go to your local muffler shop and pick up a coby for about 30 bucks. They sound bloody good on bikes.

[arj127]

I followed up ARJ127's suggestion. Custom Chambers over East Tamaki way will do a black can for $180 (usually same day) and add an extra $30 (and 4 days) if in silver. Not bad really, but would be a hassle to leave the bike over there on a working day tho'.

I gaurantee you will be more than happy with the result from custom chambers. Otherwise, how about a standard muffler of a late model 250f, should be tons of them around since most mx guys put aftermarket mufflers on instead.
I kept the standard mufflers on all my yzf's as i was more than happy with the awesome sound they gave.

[motorbyclist]

I kept the standard mufflers on all my yzf's as i was more than happy with the awesome sound they gave.

yeah well those are the straight thru fibreglass packing sort - which sound friggen sweet

the XR has baffles in a big box and sounds like a lawn mower but quieter

[NighthawkNZ]

How do you make an XR200R sound good?
buy turning the key off...

[oldskool]

buy turning the key off...
aaah the reliable simplicity of a no frills real dirt bike.. it doesn't use a key! <_<
and no I wouldn't waste money to buy(ing) a key either! :shit:
...and I'll say it before you... because no one would want to steal it! :laugh:
Can't argue against a 21 yr pedigree tho', not like one of these out of date within 4 yrs show ponies that are so expensive to run. :devil2:

Anyway a quick summary.
Looks like the best contribution so far is arj127 with his recommendation to visit Custom Chambers.

[CookMySock]

Do you mean Damon at Cycleworks? He is an expert and def makes them for this model...
http://www.cycleworks.co.nz/Yeah thats him. Tempted to get a rowdy muffler for by 650 vtwin. That should wake the neighborhood up.

Steve

[oldskool]

I've read in some aussie V8 forum talk of using hotdogs, which are short little resonators, instead of mufflers to make their shortblocks sound good. Then some guy on trademe suggested using a hotdog muffler on my bike. Coincidence? He reckons they were used a lot in the 70's. I've never heard of them used on a bike but the idea sounds novel. Anyone had experience with them (hotdogs)?

[idleidolidyll]

John Britten used resonator boxes on his bike so it would seem they can be made to be useful on a bike

[motorbyclist]

now i know you can't get them for an XR, but whatever happened to those powerbomb exhausts? my mate got one for his yz426f and is made a noticable improvement right through the rev range, giving it a smoother and more responsive feel....

sounded a bit better too but that may have just been because it was so damn nippy

http://www.onoffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATV-EXHAUST-POWERBOMB&Category_Code=ATV-EXHAUST

[oldskool]

That powerbomb link makes a good read. The concept sounds like it should work. Be interesting to make a 3D simulation of it with a physics engine setup for the exhaust environment and drag the 'bomb' around to find the best sweet spot in the manifold bend.
Anyway I bought the hotdog off the trader and hopefully will have it mounted this weekend. He said the 'dog' may need repacking and reckons it will give me a better exhaust flow and improved throttle response. Oh yeah and a deeper tone which is what I'm looking for.
Yesterday at Woodhill I got caught behind a CRF with a powerpipe and the damn thing kept blasting hot pulses into my face. Next time it'll be my turn. Bring it on!

[tommorth]

made somthing like this for my old xr went to pitstop with a bit of wire bent in general shape wanted and got them to bend a bit of pipe to suit leaving enough to run right through muffler on end then got some 3inch pipe aprex 200mm long squash it a little in the vice traced out the oval shape on some thin steel for end caps cut holes in endcaps to suit exaust pipe weld them on .Slide it over exaust pipe make in position you want remove then cut some slots in the pipe and hamer one side down to tempt gasses not to go straight through. refit weld together weld a little bracket on so it can be bolted on easy peasy .
ws quite loud but not obnoxiosly so definitly louder than a stock xr with the baffle removed had a nice snarl ive got a pic of it somewhere.

excuse my little doodle in paint its not pretty but you get the idea

[gammaguy]

by recording the sound of a two stroke,putting it on your i Pod and listening to it the whole time youre riding,with the volume maxed.:niceone:

[oldskool]

made somthing like this for my old xr
Nice job Tommorth, is that a XR250 or 500? Pic angle makes the bike look tall. Small wheel up front, got rid of the claw?

[tommorth]

just the angle still has thew 23 on the front 80 xr250

possibly my favorite bike i've owned some bastard pinched it a few years ago