Front suspension setting help, please

[Toast]

Can those in the know please comment on the wear pattern running down the right hand side of my front tyre. The bit I'm most curious about is the rippling just off centre by the middle-way depth indicator. It sorta looks a bit more gnarled in real life, but the pattern is basically the same.

The story behind all of this is that I took some preload off the front forks at the last Vic Club round. Front end feel and grip seemed to be improved, and the bike felt especially good turning in to the slower corners.

However, the tyre seemed to wear at a much higher rate, to the point where the outer depth indicator was totally gone in much less time than I usually use one of these tyres for.

Not totally sure if it can all be blamed on the suspension though as it was a different compound than I usually use (SC1 vs the usual SC0)??

Basically just want some advice, please!!

Cheers,

Phil

[motorbyclist]

not being an expert on the matter, i'd suggest only changing one thing at a time so you can be sure of the cause/effects

[Shaun]

Can those in the know please comment on the wear pattern running down the right hand side of my front tyre. The bit I'm most curious about is the rippling just off centre by the middle-way depth indicator. It sorta looks a bit more gnarled in real life, but the pattern is basically the same.

The story behind all of this is that I took some preload off the front forks at the last Vic Club round. Front end feel and grip seemed to be improved, and the bike felt especially good turning in to the slower corners.

However, the tyre seemed to wear at a much higher rate, to the point where the outer depth indicator was totally gone in much less time than I usually use one of these tyres for.

Not totally sure if it can all be blamed on the suspension though as it was a different compound than I usually use (SC1 vs the usual SC0)??

Basically just want some advice, please!!

Cheers,

Phil



That is crap mate:2guns:

I am just assuming you are using Full Std Sauaspensuion:Offtopic:

Pre load was to soft etc etc ( Springs Oil bla bla) It fealt better to you, as it gave you more slowspeed feal in the DAM slow speed corners, ( Where most try hard) SO you fealt more confident?


SCO is "Technically" best used in Very Hot conditions

[Robert Taylor]

Can those in the know please comment on the wear pattern running down the right hand side of my front tyre. The bit I'm most curious about is the rippling just off centre by the middle-way depth indicator. It sorta looks a bit more gnarled in real life, but the pattern is basically the same.

The story behind all of this is that I took some preload off the front forks at the last Vic Club round. Front end feel and grip seemed to be improved, and the bike felt especially good turning in to the slower corners.

However, the tyre seemed to wear at a much higher rate, to the point where the outer depth indicator was totally gone in much less time than I usually use one of these tyres for.

Not totally sure if it can all be blamed on the suspension though as it was a different compound than I usually use (SC1 vs the usual SC0)??

Basically just want some advice, please!!

Cheers,

Phil

You did not say what your personal weight is? ( that is often a factor ) The suspension is the main culprit as it is getting low in its stroke too readily and the spring force ramps up, this overloads the tyre and causes that wear pattern. This is in fact a common problem with many oem suspension units at standard settings/ springing. At minimum you need to change the front fork springs to a rate more suitable.
Softening the front whilst exacerbating the tyre problem would indeed have given you better turn in but that desirable property can be catered for by geometry changes as well, such as fork position in the clamps and rear ride height. E-mail me at robert@crownkiwi.co.nz and I will forward one of our easy to follow foc set up manuals to you.

[Tony.OK]

What pressure were you running with? I'm very far from knowledgeble suspension wise but had a similar wear on a front. Was a pirelli sc1 and it started screwing like that, I had 27-28 psi cold in it, I went up to 30 psi cold and it completely cured it.
Just something else to consider.................

[Morcs]

What settings are you running on the front Phil?

2 or 3 lines showing on the preload (try out both), 1.5 turns out on rebound, and 1 turn out on the compressions should work well on the track, and you are a similar build to me I think.

[Toast]

Thanks all for the advice.

Sorry I should have given more info. Weight is 75kg before suiting up, and I’m not really sure what’s in the front. I believe that there may be some heavier weight springs (1.0, I think my mate said) but not totally sure (not very useful, I know)


That is crap mate:2guns:

I am just assuming you are using Full Std Sauaspensuion:Offtopic:

Pre load was to soft etc etc ( Springs Oil bla bla) It fealt better to you, as it gave you more slowspeed feal in the DAM slow speed corners, ( Where most try hard) SO you fealt more confident?


SCO is "Technically" best used in Very Hot conditions

Cheers Shaun. Yes, it did feel much better in the slow stuff. I think I may have gone a little too far in softening it though, as although it did feel much better in the hairpin at Manfeild it tended to feel a bit loose in 3rd to 4th gear cornering.

I have previously used an SC0 but this one I got given was an SC1. Grip was very good until it had no rubber left on it.


You did not say what your personal weight is? ( that is often a factor ) The suspension is the main culprit as it is getting low in its stroke too readily and the spring force ramps up, this overloads the tyre and causes that wear pattern. This is in fact a common problem with many oem suspension units at standard settings/ springing. At minimum you need to change the front fork springs to a rate more suitable.
Softening the front whilst exacerbating the tyre problem would indeed have given you better turn in but that desirable property can be catered for by geometry changes as well, such as fork position in the clamps and rear ride height. E-mail me at robert@crownkiwi.co.nz and I will forward one of our easy to follow foc set up manuals to you.

Sorry, as mentioned above, personal weight 75kg before gear.

If the springs are too heavy for my weight would that also cause such a wear pattern even if they weren’t getting too low in their stroke?


What pressure were you running with? I'm very far from knowledgeble suspension wise but had a similar wear on a front. Was a pirelli sc1 and it started screwing like that, I had 27-28 psi cold in it, I went up to 30 psi cold and it completely cured it.
Just something else to consider.................

34 hot, which is what I was recommended…this works out at pretty much 30 cold when I checked it the next morning after racing.


What settings are you running on the front Phil?

2 or 3 lines showing on the preload (try out both), 1.5 turns out on rebound, and 1 turn out on the compressions should work well on the track, and you are a similar build to me I think.

Not sure if it’s equivalent due to the different springs. Had about 3 bars showing previously, tried it with 4 and 5 bars on the test day. Both felt better than before, especially in slow corners. Used 5 during racing, will reconsider for next time.

[Shaun]

Thanks all for the advice.

Sorry I should have given more info. Weight is 75kg before suiting up, and I’m not really sure what’s in the front. I believe that there may be some heavier weight springs (1.0, I think my mate said) but not totally sure (not very useful, I know)



Cheers Shaun. Yes, it did feel much better in the slow stuff. I think I may have gone a little too far in softening it though, as although it did feel much better in the hairpin at Manfeild it tended to feel a bit loose in 3rd to 4th gear cornering.

I have previously used an SC0 but this one I got given was an SC1. Grip was very good until it had no rubber left on it.



Sorry, as mentioned above, personal weight 75kg before gear.

If the springs are too heavy for my weight would that also cause such a wear pattern even if they weren’t getting too low in their stroke?



34 hot, which is what I was recommended…this works out at pretty much 30 cold when I checked it the next morning after racing.



Not sure if it’s equivalent due to the different springs. Had about 3 bars showing previously, tried it with 4 and 5 bars on the test day. Both felt better than before, especially in slow corners. Used 5 during racing, will reconsider for next time.



Your call dude, But as a racer rider and PARTS FITTER, I am capable of modify all in house here in New Plymouth

Get in touch Toast, and bring some peanut butter:woohoo:

[cowpoos]

Can those in the know please comment on the wear pattern running down the right hand side of my front tyre. The bit I'm most curious about is the rippling just off centre by the middle-way depth indicator. It sorta looks a bit more gnarled in real life, but the pattern is basically the same.

The story behind all of this is that I took some preload off the front forks at the last Vic Club round. Front end feel and grip seemed to be improved, and the bike felt especially good turning in to the slower corners.

However, the tyre seemed to wear at a much higher rate, to the point where the outer depth indicator was totally gone in much less time than I usually use one of these tyres for.

Not totally sure if it can all be blamed on the suspension though as it was a different compound than I usually use (SC1 vs the usual SC0)??

Basically just want some advice, please!!

Cheers,

Phil

Either springs too soft...or rebound too much or a combination of both.

[Robert Taylor]

Thanks all for the advice.

Sorry I should have given more info. Weight is 75kg before suiting up, and I’m not really sure what’s in the front. I believe that there may be some heavier weight springs (1.0, I think my mate said) but not totally sure (not very useful, I know)



Cheers Shaun. Yes, it did feel much better in the slow stuff. I think I may have gone a little too far in softening it though, as although it did feel much better in the hairpin at Manfeild it tended to feel a bit loose in 3rd to 4th gear cornering.

I have previously used an SC0 but this one I got given was an SC1. Grip was very good until it had no rubber left on it.



Sorry, as mentioned above, personal weight 75kg before gear.

If the springs are too heavy for my weight would that also cause such a wear pattern even if they weren’t getting too low in their stroke?



34 hot, which is what I was recommended…this works out at pretty much 30 cold when I checked it the next morning after racing.



Not sure if it’s equivalent due to the different springs. Had about 3 bars showing previously, tried it with 4 and 5 bars on the test day. Both felt better than before, especially in slow corners. Used 5 during racing, will reconsider for next time.

The springs are actually too soft. That is the very first issue to address.
Note that our credentials include full factory training on site at Ohlins Sweden, Race Tech and Traxxion Dynamics in the USA. Unashamedly our experience, accumulated knowledge, training and our facility is second to none. We dont race ourselves which means we have a total focus on fully understanding suspension technology. And also unashamedly, that is why most serious racers, trackday and road riders come to us. We are here doing the same thing week in week out with total focus and a solid reputation for backing up our product.

[Toast]

Interesting to hear that the springs are too soft...means I need to look elsewhere as to the cause of understeering issues.

I actually called Robert last week to arrange a future solution...the info here helps make it all a little more clear though, and will be very useful for the coming Vic round though, so cheers all!

[Robert Taylor]

Interesting to hear that the springs are too soft...means I need to look elsewhere as to the cause of understeering issues.

I actually called Robert last week to arrange a future solution...the info here helps make it all a little more clear though, and will be very useful for the coming Vic round though, so cheers all!

Understeer is actually very much caused by the internal shim stack in the rear shock being too light in low speed calibration, opening too early and dumping oil so that the rear end squats excessively, lowers the rear end excessively under power and alters the trail distance in the front, causing it to run wide. Of course rear ride height adjustment ( not so readily attainable with the oem shock ) and correct spring and preload also has a measurable influence.
Many people increase rear spring preload or go to ( in fact ) an over-firm spring to try and countercat excessive acceleration squat. Frankly, that is an old production racing cure that is actually the wrong way of skinning the cat. Many or most under-power understeer issues are because of the aforementioned weak shim stack and too much internal low speed shaft bleed. And this is not correctable by the external compression clicker, all that is is a bypass bleed into the reservoir acting on shaft displacement only and representing only 12 to 13% of total damping control, so its effect is very very minimal. Simplistically springing is more about position and damping is about controlling that rate of change of position. If you overspring according to old production racing mentality the bump absorption over the abrupt bumps becomes horrible.
Come and see me in the pits at Manfield on Saturday, I am not at all ''the unapproachable suspension guy only interested in the top guys'' that some have mischievously painted me as over the years.

[cowpoos]

means I need to look elsewhere as to the cause of understeering issues.


Don't take this the wrong way Phil...But in your case...I think the under steer issuse you maybe sensing might be [I may be wrong] a rider issuse...having seen you ride and ridden a few laps behind you [being a nosey prick] I think it might be more your reluctance to roll on thne throttle till sitting the bike pretty much upright..even if you unintentionaly do it [you habbit may have changed] it was something that I noticed...and that can esily cause understeer out of corners.

And as robert eluding too...if the rear is to firm...and the front too soft...your bikes not as balanced as it could be..

[Toast]

Don't take this the wrong way Phil...But in your case...I think the under steer issuse you maybe sensing might be [I may be wrong] a rider issuse...having seen you ride and ridden a few laps behind you [being a nosey prick] I think it might be more your reluctance to roll on thne throttle till sitting the bike pretty much upright..even if you unintentionaly do it [you habbit may have changed] it was something that I noticed...and that can esily cause understeer out of corners.

And as robert eluding too...if the rear is to firm...and the front too soft...your bikes not as balanced as it could be..

No offence taken…not getting on the gas hard enough or early enough are definitely issues I’ve identified in my riding…but I think that it may partly be caused by the fact that doing so seems to have me pushing wide.

I blamed solely my riding for a long time… now I plan to get professional help on the suspension front, and work from there.

You gonna race again, Poos?

[cowpoos]

You gonna race again, Poos?

Very Very definatly!! Just putting my self into a beter fiscal position to do it properly this time!! :) with a proper fricken bike! :)

[Toast]

Very Very definatly!! Just putting my self into a beter fiscal position to do it properly this time!! :) with a proper fricken bike! :)

I get the feeling I know how you feel :) Hard juggling the need to save money to do it right with a good bike, tyres, etc, and the need (for me, at least) to get more practice and get some skills before I get too old!

Catch you 'round :niceone: