Bicycles

[racefactory]

Ok, a bicycle is a bike so I'm guessing this will be ok in here as this post is relevant to motorcycles...

Always trying to learn what the limits of the machine are and spending FAR too much time reading about front wheel lock ups, rear wheel skids, tyre braking forces and lean angles in the wet, studying racing footage etc etc i realise i got to get out there and try it all more... however... I don't want to wreck my lovely NC30 or any motorcycle for that matter!

I can't believe i've only just thought of actually using a bicycle to experience these limits... even if it's not 165kg machine it is on 2 wheels and therefore the experience will surely translate somewhat. I know already that locking the rear brake on the motorcycle feels like the same kinda thing on a bicycle, however i have not done any of the others.

Main things i want to experience and get a first time feeling for are:

-front wheel lock ups in straight line
-braking in a turn/ front wheel wash up/low side while cornering
-generally just braking right at the limits in wet and dry conditions
-high side
-lean angles in wet and dry
-Tyre pressures, temperatures and their effect on all of the above!

Right <_< ... I think it's possible to use a bicycle to simulate most of those phenomena to a scaled down extent... I'm thinking of doing the high side on a astroturf kind of surface if i can find something. Just couple of things...

How far can a bicycle lean!!!??? :laugh: If i want to spend time and get confident at 45/50 degree lean angles then i want to be sure the bicycle can do it eh. Have you guys managed to crank bicycles right over? I couldn't even find any clips of this on youtube.

Just so i know what to expect... what kind of percentage of lean angle and braking force can i probably expect on wet vs dry?

Would be interesting to here from experienced bicycle folk in this area on how it relates to a sports bike. Haha!

Cheers :drinkup:

[vtec]

Haha, well I'd be your man.

Worked as a bicycle/motorcycle courier in Auckland CBD which is hilly as, so you get some insane speeds on the bicycle.

On the road bicycle you hardly touch the rear brakes on dry days. I got good enough on the brakes that I could balance it on the front wheel going down steep CBD streets. Although I lost all my wheelying confidence when I flipped it and landed on my radio in my shirts back pocket and couldn't move for like 2 minutes.

I also had a solid steel framed Giant boulder mountain bike. Had really hard rubber tyres on it, but I could still get to the edges of the tyres. With good tyres, you could probably lean nearly as far as a proper race bike. But I was mostly concerned with their ability to not wear out and get punctures. I lowsided it near the end of last year going down the blocked off road on constitution hill, and grazed my knuckles to the bone and broke two ribs. Not much fun. Still couldn't afford to take any days off. Managed to keep the blood off the packages.

On the road bike I've lowsided it maybe 3 or 4 times. Although I've had moments where I had both tyres sliding and just managed to keep it up and avoid the parked cars I was about to slide into.

Best bike for learning bike control skills would be a mountainbike with rigid frame (no suspension) and quality grippy road tyres. Pretty sure you could get knee down on something like that.

I remember picking my leathers up from the repair lady at the st Kevins Arcade, had to wear them cause they wouldn't fit in my pack. The riding my bicycle full tilt turning right onto Nelson St where my work is and trying to get the knee down hahahahaha.

Bicycles rock. But you do stupid shit you will crash.

In the wet, don't expect to be able to slow down much at all. This job was lethal in the wet. Some cobbles around Auckland CBD became like Ice skating rinks for the bicycle tyres. I don't know how many times I fell and sprained my wrists in the wet. My right wrist will never get full strength again. It's actually loose in the joint a bit. Luckily my brother and his wife are physios.

But for becoming a motorbike racer nothing compares to track time on the bike you want to race. Bicycles do however sharpen and guide your reactions. You need to have lightning reactions and excellent peripheral vision to be a fast high earning bike courier in Auckland without ending up roadkill.

I'm doing it again in December... So damn excited. It's only fun if you are a maniac.

[Paulus]

Seriously - buy a dirt bike. Just get something small and cheap like an XR200. Nothing beats time spent sliding round in a paddock for learning your limits. A push bike isn't that relevant.

[skidMark]

I have been disqualified since september 2007.

Been getting around by bicycle.

had a lowside at 30 kph, i find bicycle has been the best way to teach new riders i know about countesteering....

yeah if you see a guy giving it tits on a bicycle with mp3 player and alpinestar gloves....

thats um me lol.

[rat biker 08]

You spend to much time thinking:eek: Not doing just ride . As you ride you get better :niceone:

[quallman1234]

I never really found the limits of the lean angle's off a push bike in the dry.

Front wheel lock up's could be interesting on a push bike.

[racefactory]

I have been disqualified since september 2007.

Been getting around by bicycle.

had a lowside at 30 kph, i find bicycle has been the best way to teach new riders i know about countesteering....

yeah if you see a guy on a bicycle giving it tits on a bicycle with mp3 player and alpinestar gloves....

thats um me lol.

Hey man how did you low side your bicycle???

[skidMark]

Hey man how did you low side your bicycle???


too much lean, the front let go lol

[racefactory]

Haha, well I'd be your man.

Worked as a bicycle/motorcycle courier in Auckland CBD which is hilly as, so you get some insane speeds on the bicycle.

On the road bicycle you hardly touch the rear brakes on dry days. I got good enough on the brakes that I could balance it on the front wheel going down steep CBD streets. Although I lost all my wheelying confidence when I flipped it and landed on my radio in my shirts back pocket and couldn't move for like 2 minutes.

I also had a solid steel framed Giant boulder mountain bike. Had really hard rubber tyres on it, but I could still get to the edges of the tyres. With good tyres, you could probably lean nearly as far as a proper race bike. But I was mostly concerned with their ability to not wear out and get punctures. I lowsided it near the end of last year going down the blocked off road on constitution hill, and grazed my knuckles to the bone and broke two ribs. Not much fun. Still couldn't afford to take any days off. Managed to keep the blood off the packages.

On the road bike I've lowsided it maybe 3 or 4 times. Although I've had moments where I had both tyres sliding and just managed to keep it up and avoid the parked cars I was about to slide into.

Best bike for learning bike control skills would be a mountainbike with rigid frame (no suspension) and quality grippy road tyres. Pretty sure you could get knee down on something like that.

I remember picking my leathers up from the repair lady at the st Kevins Arcade, had to wear them cause they wouldn't fit in my pack. The riding my bicycle full tilt turning right onto Nelson St where my work is and trying to get the knee down hahahahaha.

Bicycles rock. But you do stupid shit you will crash.

In the wet, don't expect to be able to slow down much at all. This job was lethal in the wet. Some cobbles around Auckland CBD became like Ice skating rinks for the bicycle tyres. I don't know how many times I fell and sprained my wrists in the wet. My right wrist will never get full strength again. It's actually loose in the joint a bit. Luckily my brother and his wife are physios.

But for becoming a motorbike racer nothing compares to track time on the bike you want to race. Bicycles do however sharpen and guide your reactions. You need to have lightning reactions and excellent peripheral vision to be a fast high earning bike courier in Auckland without ending up roadkill.

I'm doing it again in December... So damn excited. It's only fun if you are a maniac.

Haha great story man! Enjoyed the read- thanks.

MOAR bicycle stories please!

[racefactory]

too much lean, the front let go lol

So what kind of lean was that at? Sports bike max lean kind of angle?

[hmurphy]

Before I even got my road motorbike licence, I had been dirt biking for a few years. It helped heaps when it came to the 'limits' of being on the bike and being face down on the road. Front wheel lock ups, lowsides, rear wheel lock ups, sliding etc. Never highsided though. I have gone over the handle bars at quite a very fast speed before though.

I found that when I got on a road bike, I could control the bike safely from day one in the wet, even over the rimutakas. When I had my learners, I went over the rimutakas in some really nasty rain, and I really appreciated all the time I spent falling off dirt bikes! You can feel what your tires want to do more.

To this day I haven't come off a road bike, but I have come off my uncle's DRZ 400 on his farm heaps!

I agree with Paulus. A cheap dirt bike and some nice places for you to experience loose surfaces and crashes might be beneficial to you and your riding!

[johan]

Wet/damp grass is very good if you want to try sliding, locking front wheels etc!

My favourite - frozen lakes with powder snow!

[racefactory]

Yes sounds good I might have to take my bicycle on some as soon as weather permits... damn it so now it stops raining!

[Sable]

Bicycle - distribution of mass entirely different. Not enough weight to lock front wheel - you'll mono or cartwheel.

Tyre pressures, lean angles = null

Braking in corners could be helpful on a bicycle though, I would imagine.

[quallman1234]

Bicycle - distribution of mass entirely different. Not enough weight to lock front wheel - you'll mono or cartwheel.


Nay in the wet, if you hanging off backwards you can do it.

[racefactory]

So no matter how hard you brake on a dry road surface it won't lock front wheel? I shall have to see tomorrow morning! Surely it can in the wet... . I read something a while ago that said something like if a bicycle of typical geometry exceeds braking force of 0.67g then the back wheel will lift up if the front wheel has not locked up.

So we seem to have some saying the bicycles can lean and some saying they can't...

[hmurphy]

Show us the pictures of your cuts and bruises afterwards! I don't think you can do it in the dry, unless you are on a beefcake, heavy as hell bicycle!!! I have tried on my brothers mountain bike that had front and rear suspension and all that would happen is you would flip the thing. In the wet I am sure you could though.

Good luck!

[skidMark]

So what kind of lean was that at? Sports bike max lean kind of angle?


yeah about start of peg down on a zxr, but i just lift my foot on a zxr till the rear starts to drift until it levered off my knee LOL

[johan]

You can pedal while you apply the front brake to help lock it up. After some practice you can slide it a meter or so still with balance.

[racefactory]

lol! sounds fun. ^

Think it'll have to wait till the wet till the locking can start then...

[racefactory]

Show us the pictures of your cuts and bruises afterwards! I don't think you can do it in the dry, unless you are on a beefcake, heavy as hell bicycle!!! I have tried on my brothers mountain bike that had front and rear suspension and all that would happen is you would flip the thing. In the wet I am sure you could though.

Good luck!

Proof is here... Thanks, you just saved me from going over the front of my bicycle!

[skidMark]

Proof is here... Thanks, you just saved me from going over the front of my bicycle!

Damn! i was gunna video that for youtube

[hmurphy]

Aw c'mon! I want to see some funny pics!

Maybe trademe900 you should try it on grass or dirt with a bicycle? At least first

[racefactory]

I'm sorry... if i told anyone i'm going out to practice skidding and falling off my bicycle then no one would come with me to take pictures....

[skidMark]

I'm sorry... if i told anyone i'm going out to practice skidding and falling off my bicycle then no one would come with me to take pictures....


Are you kidding, people love to see people hurt themselves.

[racefactory]

Unfortunately, most people I know would consider it to be a 'loser' thing.

but skidmark... surely you don't want to see me hurt myself?

[koba]

If you wan't to experiance all that stuff get an rg150 or kr150 and come streetstock racing, its lots more fun and relevant.
Bicycles hurt too much when you crash.

[BMWST?]

seriuosly doubt that most bikes would be able to lock fron t wheel,s discs maybe easy,but as i say most bikes dont have brkes that powerfull ,you would be over the bars for lean they can go over a long way even on road bike slicks....bicycles are too light to simulate motorcycles,I agree with the dirt bike thing....s for front wheel lock ups they are easy...i used to do them on my Honda CB900 a lot just be prepared to let the front brake off as soon as the front wheel starts to turn and or bike start to lean...

[skidMark]

Unfortunately, most people I know would consider it to be a 'loser' thing.

but skidmark... surely you don't want to see me hurt myself?


yeah just not severely...

on another note i lowsided again.... mutter mutter wet concrete footpath pouring rain mutter mutter....into a hedge.

[Jamezo]

Front wheel lockups are easy on a pushbike, just find some wet leaves/grass or even mossy tarmac. Keep the power on and slam the front.

The trick is finding a surface that you have some confidence you won't simply flip over on, then moving on to surfaces with more grip.

You can definitely do it in the dry on grass. Helps if you have some nice discs.

[skidMark]

Front wheel lockups are easy on a pushbike, just find some wet leaves/grass or even mossy tarmac. Keep the power on and slam the front.

The trick is finding a surface that you have some confidence you won't simply flip over on, then moving on to surfaces with more grip.

You can definitely do it in the dry on grass. Helps if you have some nice discs.


Milazo FTW