PR2/RA question [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

MSTRS

16th October 2008, 08:24

I'm doing some soul searching at present as to which tyres to go with when mine current ones are more needy of replacement than just now...
Currently running Michelin Pilot Road 2 (PR2). These have been fantastic, particularly for long-lasting-ness. Those that know me, know I'm not 'fast' but I'm no nana either. I run these tyres at 33f/37r 1 or 2 up and at 12500kms of running I calculate that I have another 3000 or so before they are history.
Now, with that sort of performance, why would I consider anything else? Simple really...I've used Metzler MEZ4 and Z6 on my GSXR1100, and Michelin Pilot Sport (hated them) on the 750...in an effort to find a tyre that offered 'sufficient' grip and long life. I now know first hand that dual compound is the way to achieve this.
The thing is, I'm led to believe that the Continental Road Attacks have a graduated compound, which offers progressively greater grip the further they lean, and that they keep their heat better than the PR2s. They also apparently have stiffer sidewalls and run higher pressures

Conti's have always performed better at 36/42.....great tyres and last long too.
So...what to do? Is the RA a better tyre, with the same long life as the PR2, or not?
Or should I try the Michelin Pilot Power 2CT? Of which, I know almost nothing?

NZsarge

16th October 2008, 08:35

I've never heard anyone say anything but good things about PR2's. I'm running PP 2ct's at the moment and they are my favorite tyre closely followed by ContiRace Attack's, neither of these will last like a PR2 though.
I've tryed ContiSport Attack's on both the YZF and the FZ1 and they were ok but i'm not moved to go get any more of them.
I have also run PP 2ct's on both of these bikes and I cant say enough about the improvement in confidence they gave me on both of the bikes.
I reckon stick with the PR2's.

Hitcher

16th October 2008, 08:54

So far, all of the "dual compound" tyres I've run on my past two bikes have failed miserably in the durability stakes. The PR2s I ran on my FJR handled nicely, but for the first time ever I wore out a front tyre before the rear. Both sides of the tyre had completely cupped out after not quite 10,000km.

Dual compound rear tyres fluff up badly around the edges after a few thousand km. The Conti Road Attack rears (I've run three sets of these: two on the ST1300 and one on the FJR) were spectacularly bad at chopping out in this manner. My last PR2 rear was starting to go the same way but was spared the ignominy of failure by its very shabby front mate deciding to die first.

I'm now running a set of the new Dunlop Sportmax Roadsmarts (procured in Flagstaff Arizona), and will be most keen to see how these perform under slightly spirited one-up riding and also how long they last. The Avon Storms they replaced lasted nearly 13,000km of mostly two-up fully laden riding across some suboptimal North American roads.

Interestingly, the single compound Avon Storms (in my experience) handle just as well as their dual compound cousins and last considerably longer on big torquey bikes.

MSTRS

16th October 2008, 09:25

I hear what you are saying Hitch. But I have to say that a tyre will only perform to it's best if it's matched to the bike/riding style. With all due respect, you are riding a whale by comparison, so I wouldn't expect the same life from the same tyre.
By 'cupping' I assume you mean this?

imdying

16th October 2008, 10:05

Dual compound rear tyres fluff up badly around the edges after a few thousand km. The Conti Road Attack rears (I've run three sets of these: two on the ST1300 and one on the FJR) were spectacularly bad at chopping out in this manner. My last PR2 rear was starting to go the same way but was spared the ignominy of failure by its very shabby front mate deciding to die first.I wonder if that's a weight issue (not that I'm calling your bikes fat!)? Perhaps they're more 'life extended sportsbike tyres' rather than tourer tyres?

Pumba

16th October 2008, 11:54

I ran the conties RA on the SV and absolutly loved them, and once the OEM set of PP on the Triumph are dead I will be putting them back on there.

And at 12,000km out of a set including Auckland comuting and about 4,000 odd km around the South Island I cannot complain about the wear I got either.

The RA can move a little in the wet, but was a feedback thing as they never once felt like letting go, I didnt mind that and quite liked it actually but I can understand if some riders dont.

MSTRS

16th October 2008, 12:13

Hitcher

16th October 2008, 12:16

I wonder if that's a weight issue (not that I'm calling your bikes fat!)? Perhaps they're more 'life extended sportsbike tyres' rather than tourer tyres?

I know lots of people on smaller, lesser powered bikes who have nothing but praise for dual compound tyres. Indeed the Conti Road Attack is TSS's best selling "sports touring" tyre. My point, based on some personal experience, is that these tyres are at best fragile and that there are single compound tyres that handle as well as, if not better than dual compounds, (most fortunately from my point of view) that would probably go just as well on smaller, lesser powered bikes as well.

And I don't think it's a weight issue (an FJR with a full load of liquids on board weighs less than 300kg). I think it's a torque issue.

Pumba

16th October 2008, 14:22

Thanks Pumba. That's the sort of feedback I am looking for. You have Pilot Powers on the 1050, and are going to replace with RAs?
The PR2s have only felt unsettled once, it was :cold: and damp in places. I thought my pillion was uncomfy and was shifting about. Mid-corner.

I cant say I have ever had a complaint with the PP, in the dry I have never had a problem, they have done everything ever asked of them, but in the wet I have never felt as comfortale as I did on the Contis, possible just a personal preference thing once again, or possibly it has just been my riding (even though I have riden regualry ever since my off, the trip over the front of a car did knock my confidece and it has taken a bit to feel 100% on the bike again, especially in lower grip situations) and the tyres are just a convenient thing to blame it on.

Probally when I replace the PP I will go to a Road Attack Rear, and a Sport Attack Front. I had just replaced the 12,000km old road attack set with that combination 700 od km beforethe SV was written off and the couple of sprited rides that I got to do I was very impresed with the slightly more agressive profile and increased sidewall grip of the sport attack front.

MSTRS

16th October 2008, 14:32

I've been doing some google research, and the consensus from all over is that the PR2 is a better tyre in all ways than the RA. So, unless something else pops up as a good option, I will be getting another Michelin. The front is still good, but viewed at certain angles, scalloping on the sides is apparent so that'll probably get replaced too. Perhaps with a PP?

Maha

16th October 2008, 14:52

I'm doing some soul searching at present as to which tyres to go with when mine current ones are more needy of replacement than just now...
Currently running Michelin Pilot Road 2 (PR2). These have been fantastic, particularly for long-lasting-ness. Those that know me, know I'm not 'fast' but I'm no nana either. I run these tyres at 33f/37r 1 or 2 up and at 12500kms of running I calculate that I have another 3000 or so before they are history.
Now, with that sort of performance, why would I consider anything else? Simple really...I've used Metzler MEZ4 and Z6 on my GSXR1100, and Michelin Pilot Sport (hated them) on the 750...in an effort to find a tyre that offered 'sufficient' grip and long life. I now know first hand that dual compound is the way to achieve this.
The thing is, I'm led to believe that the Continental Road Attacks have a graduated compound, which offers progressively greater grip the further they lean, and that they keep their heat better than the PR2s. They also apparently have stiffer sidewalls and run higher pressures

So...what to do? Is the RA a better tyre, with the same long life as the PR2, or not?
Or should I try the Michelin Pilot Power 2CT? Of which, I know almost nothing?

My Triumph came with Metz Z6's....I couldnt wait to change them...you have seen the rear tyre on my current bike eh? well the Z6 on the Triumph was like that when I got it. On went the PR2's and I ran them at 36psi front and 42psi rear.
I will hold out a tad longer (maybe a few weeks) until I replace the current rubber (rear only) and I loved the performance and grip of the PR2's on the Sprint so thats what im sticking with...better the devil you know for me.

imdying

16th October 2008, 15:00

My point, based on some personal experience, is that these tyres are at best fragileAnd that's my point... of course they are if you attach them to a whale.

And I don't think it's a weight issue (an FJR with a full load of liquids on board weighs less than 300kg). I think it's a torque issue.I hate to break it to you, but that's bloody heavy. The SV (admittedly not even nearly standard) doesn't even hit 200kg gassed up good to go.

Hitcher

16th October 2008, 17:55

I hate to break it to you, but that's bloody heavy. The SV (admittedly not even nearly standard) doesn't even hit 200kg gassed up good to go.

That's not heavy. It's 40kg less than an ST1300 in the same state of dress. Adding an extra 200kg of combined passengers and luggage? Now THAT'S heavier...

Max Preload

16th October 2008, 19:24

I wonder if that's a weight issue (not that I'm calling your bikes fat!)? Perhaps they're more 'life extended sportsbike tyres' rather than tourer tyres?

I've just replaced my PR2 rear with a Diablo Rosso (because due to the ineptness of Northern Accessories, they ran out of PR2s and couldn't give anyone an accurate ETA). Now, my PR2 also cupped badly on the edge, but the Diablo Rosso which is much more of a sports tyre isn't exhibiting any signs of doing the same. It could just be that the tread doesn't go all the way to the edge of the tyre though. See the pictures attached - the second one was taken with my phone at the end of 20km of gravel (Jafar knows all about that... 2km, my arse! :rofl:) and the cupping makes it look like a bloody sand tyre.

The PR2s have only felt unsettled once, it was :cold: and damp in places

I never lost confidence in the PR2, however the Diablo Rosso has been exhibiting some bizarre behaviour in the wet despite being unshakable in the dry. The day after I got it fitted three weeks ago I could forgive it for unexpectedly spinning on wet exposed tar - even in 4th at about 3800rpm and fairly light throttle - after all it had only done about 100kms. However, the weekend before last it did the same thing and had probably 600km's on it by that stage.

Mishy

16th October 2008, 22:35

Currently running Michelin Pilot Road 2 (PR2). These have been fantastic, particularly for long-lasting-ness. Those that know me, know I'm not 'fast' but I'm no nana either.
I've used Metzler MEZ4 and Z6 on my GSXR1100, and Michelin Pilot Sport (hated them) on the 750...in an effort to find a tyre that offered 'sufficient' grip and long life. I now know first hand that dual compound is the way to achieve this.
The thing is, I'm led to believe that the Continental Road Attacks have a graduated compound, which offers progressively greater grip the further they lean, and that they keep their heat better than the PR2s. They also apparently have stiffer sidewalls and run higher pressures

That's a lot of thinking going on there ! Here are some facts to help you along. The Conti Road Attack is single compound - you don't see continuous compound until Sport Attack. Road Attack is designed as a high milage sports touring tyre, and (in my expereince) behaves just like that. The front tyre is designed for stable handling, the compound will give excellent grip from almost any temperature. The "Micro porous" compound is better in the wet than anything else out there.
Durabilty from these tyres comes from having a very thick layer in the Zenith area ( centre) of the tyre. They are a 0 degree steel belt design, which means no bad handling from the carcase (standing wave stuff) You would normally expect tyre pressures to be 36/42 on a large sports bike, although we sometimes get better bump behaviour with a couple less in the rear. The catch with that is that (as with all tyres) you give away tyre life with the lower pressure ( more heat/more wear) - as much as 7% for a two psi drop in pressure.
If you want to compare to another tyre, then the type of tyre you should look at would be the MEZ4 or Z6 you talked about. Road Attack is a much newer design in all areas, and will be a better bet because of that. The design target is very similar though, just more advanced, so I'm picking it would suit you. I have consistantly seen milage up around the numbers you have mentioned out of Road Attack rears, and the design brief for these tyres showed that Conti aimed for a lot more dry and wet grip than the Z6. I've spent a lot of time talking with the head compound engineer at Conti, and he's seldom wrong.
I saw a comment describing Road Attack as "fragile" - i can't imagine what this would mean.
Hope this helps with your thinking :)

Owl

17th October 2008, 06:39

The Avon Storms they replaced lasted nearly 13,000km of mostly two-up fully laden riding across some suboptimal North American roads.

Interestingly, the single compound Avon Storms (in my experience) handle just as well as their dual compound cousins and last considerably longer on big torquey bikes.

My Storm lasted 6200km Hitcher!:laugh: Trying the PR2 now!

MSTRS

17th October 2008, 08:01

That's a lot of thinking going on there ! Here are some facts to help you along. The Conti Road Attack is single compound - you don't see continuous compound until Sport Attack. Road Attack is designed as a high milage sports touring tyre, and (in my expereince) behaves just like that. The front tyre is designed for stable handling, the compound will give excellent grip from almost any temperature. The "Micro porous" compound is better in the wet than anything else out there.
Durabilty from these tyres comes from having a very thick layer in the Zenith area ( centre) of the tyre. They are a 0 degree steel belt design, which means no bad handling from the carcase (standing wave stuff) You would normally expect tyre pressures to be 36/42 on a large sports bike, although we sometimes get better bump behaviour with a couple less in the rear. The catch with that is that (as with all tyres) you give away tyre life with the lower pressure ( more heat/more wear) - as much as 7% for a two psi drop in pressure.
If you want to compare to another tyre, then the type of tyre you should look at would be the MEZ4 or Z6 you talked about. Road Attack is a much newer design in all areas, and will be a better bet because of that. The design target is very similar though, just more advanced, so I'm picking it would suit you. I have consistantly seen milage up around the numbers you have mentioned out of Road Attack rears, and the design brief for these tyres showed that Conti aimed for a lot more dry and wet grip than the Z6. I've spent a lot of time talking with the head compound engineer at Conti, and he's seldom wrong.
I saw a comment describing Road Attack as "fragile" - i can't imagine what this would mean.
Hope this helps with your thinking :)

Not at all. If you were paying attention, you would have noted that I tried MEZ4 and Z6 (on a much heavier bike) and Pilot Sports...and moved on. After an excellent trot with Pilot Road 2 (dual compound) it is that tyre that I was trying to compare with the Conti Road Attack. I had been told they were dual compound, but you are saying I'd have to go to the Sport Attack? I am not a particularly aggressive rider and have no need of a tyre that will grip to the edge and beyond only to need replacing not far into 4 figures of mileage. But in saying that, I still aim for a tyre that will let me have full confidence to the edge, in good conditions. Seems to me that harder in the centre for extended life is way better than thicker in the centre, which is likely to lead to more squaring-off. With that lovely transition lip happening every time one leans over.

MSTRS

17th October 2008, 08:10

I've just replaced my PR2 rear with a Diablo Rosso ...
I never lost confidence in the PR2

Neither have I. Seems the Diablo is mispelt (diabolic)!!
I'd call that tyre in the photos futterly ucked...if I keep running my current PR2 until it reaches that state, I suspect that 20,000kms will not be an impossibility.

Mishy

17th October 2008, 09:25

Not at all. If you were paying attention, you would have noted that I tried MEZ4 and Z6 (on a much heavier bike) and Pilot Sports...and moved on. After an excellent trot with Pilot Road 2 (dual compound) it is that tyre that I was trying to compare with the Conti Road Attack. I had been told they were dual compound, but you are saying I'd have to go to the Sport Attack? I am not a particularly aggressive rider and have no need of a tyre that will grip to the edge and beyond only to need replacing not far into 4 figures of mileage. But in saying that, I still aim for a tyre that will let me have full confidence to the edge, in good conditions. Seems to me that harder in the centre for extended life is way better than thicker in the centre, which is likely to lead to more squaring-off. With that lovely transition lip happening every time one leans over.

Understood :) The dual compund thing is a good idea, but not an absolute must, and yes - the Sport Attack would be inapropriate for more general use on the rear of a bike that expects big mileage. The thicker compound in the zenith area of Road Attack has been very successful at providing long life, and is there to overcome that flattened and square edged result which is so bloody ugly to ride. pilot road is an equivalent to the Conti Motion, which is a step lower than Road Attack, and which does not share the same compound.
The Road Attack will provide considerable grip at lean angle - perhaps more than most people would think, and certainly will be a match for the pilot road in this area.

Max Preload

17th October 2008, 10:39

I'd call that tyre in the photos futterly ucked...if I keep running my current PR2 until it reaches that state, I suspect that 20,000kms will not be an impossibility.

I'm not actually sure what mileage I got out of it but I wasn't keeping it on there for longevity at that stage - I wanted to replace it with the another PR2 but there were none in the country and I kept holding on eventually having to bite the bullet and swap to an unknown quantity, the Diabolic as you call it :lol:.

The PR2 actually started cupping like that shortly after purchase - probably a couple of months.

MSTRS

17th October 2008, 10:56

Understood ... a match for the pilot road in this area.
Point of order...the Pilot Road is NOT the same as Pilot Road 2. Different compound/s and different tread pattern. I would not put a Road on a sprotbike.

The PR2 actually started cupping like that shortly after purchase - probably a couple of months.
By cupping, I take it you mean the slight uprise on the trailing edge of a groove and rounding off of the leading edge? I've never found a tyre that doesn't do that to a degree.

MSTRS

17th October 2008, 11:23

Just to clarify, here are the tread patterns of the types in discussion

Max Preload

17th October 2008, 13:47

By cupping, I take it you mean the slight uprise on the trailing edge of a groove and rounding off of the leading edge? I've never found a tyre that doesn't do that to a degree.

Yes - the formation of the lip on the trailing edge of the tread and rounding of the leading edge. The PR2 is the worst one I'e ever had for it - normally it's just a slight bump.

stormy1

4th November 2008, 17:12

Just going through the pros and cons of tyres for the VTR. Currently have a Diablo Rosso on the rear with plenty of tread and a standard Diablo on the front which is getting reasonably worn. I was talking with the Pirelli distributors and he thought that the Rosso's in the rear would probably be overpowering the front so suggested the Rosso in the front as well. In the future maybe matched to a Diablo Corsa III rear in the future to stop squaring off (is this a problem and would it affect my Rosso rear)? Now, having said all that, I do like the sounds of the Continentals and from the people who I have spoken to who have them (including another VTR owner) they perform as well in the wet as the dry. If I was going to go this way would fit a Sport Attack to the front followed later by a Street Attack in the rear.

Any thoughts on any of the above most appreciated.

Cheers
Dale

discotex

4th November 2008, 19:42

Now, having said all that, I do like the sounds of the Continentals and from the people who I have spoken to who have them (including another VTR owner) they perform as well in the wet as the dry. If I was going to go this way would fit a Sport Attack to the front followed later by a Street Attack in the rear.

Any thoughts on any of the above most appreciated.

Cheers
Dale

It might just be me but I really dislike the idea of mixing tyres as you'll get the best performance from a matched pair.

Mixing models within a brand is probably not so bad but mixing brands could mean you end up with tyres of different profile/construction...

If I were you I'd put on a Rosso front then change later. Apparently the Rosso's are designed so a front and rear last similar distance.

Considered BT-016's?

Mishy

4th November 2008, 20:27

Now, having said all that, I do like the sounds of the Continentals and from the people who I have spoken to who have them (including another VTR owner) they perform as well in the wet as the dry. If I was going to go this way would fit a Sport Attack to the front followed later by a Street Attack in the rear.

The Conti tyres will all work fine with one another. It's VERY common to fit a Sport Attack on the front to get sporty steering ( different carcase to the Road Attack) while still using a Road Attack on the rear to get acceptable mileage. In fact, Conti's desing brief was to have the rear tyres an acceptable mix with ANY other front on the market ( except Jap Dunlops - don't ask me why !) because It's normally the rear that gets replaced most often. So as long as you choose tyres with a similar target - ie Touring, Sports Touring, etc - you should be fine. It would be normal to choose a more durable rear than front, just because that kinda makes sense on the wallet :)

stormy1

5th November 2008, 11:27

It might just be me but I really dislike the idea of mixing tyres as you'll get the best performance from a matched pair.

Mixing models within a brand is probably not so bad but mixing brands could mean you end up with tyres of different profile/construction...

If I were you I'd put on a Rosso front then change later. Apparently the Rosso's are designed so a front and rear last similar distance.

Considered BT-016's?

Mmmm heaps to think about. I have read a few threads re mixing brands etc and think that the jury is still out? I do know that you must have radial with radial and also 0deg with 0deg?

No I havent thought (yet) about the BT-016's?

Quite happy with the idea of the Rosso up front have no idea what they are like in the wet and would appreciate any comments.

Cheers
D

discotex

5th November 2008, 11:47

Mmmm heaps to think about. I have read a few threads re mixing brands etc and think that the jury is still out? I do know that you must have radial with radial and also 0deg with 0deg?

No I havent thought (yet) about the BT-016's?

Quite happy with the idea of the Rosso up front have no idea what they are like in the wet and would appreciate any comments.

Cheers
D

I'm sure the Rosso is ok in the wet. Probably won't last over summer anyway ;)

The BT-016 is a triple compound rear and dual front. I've got 1000km on mine and so far they're making great road tyres. I'm less worried about wet performance as long as it's reasonable. Don't plan on getting my knee down in the wet...

Jury is out on trackday performance. Search for BT-016 and you'll find a thread with links to reviews etc.

pritch

5th November 2008, 12:20

Search for BT-016 and you'll find a thread with links to reviews etc.

You shouldn't have to look far to get the basic idea...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=85203

yod

5th November 2008, 12:36

I finished off a 170 PR2 rear on the RF (with 90% 2-up riding) in about 10-12000 km, (front still had a thou or so left in it)

Am about to finish off a 180 RA rear on the bird (with 90% 1-up riding) in about 7-8000km

the bird must be putting 25-35% more rip at the rear then the RF but the difference in 1 and 2-up riding could be seen to counter that (but i'm no expert by any stretch)

I found both tyres had plenty of grip for me so I'll probably throw a set of PR2's on the bird when the RA's are done and see how they go.

mouldy

6th November 2008, 11:16

Mmmm heaps to think about. I have read a few threads re mixing brands etc and think that the jury is still out? I do know that you must have radial with radial and also 0deg with 0deg?

No I havent thought (yet) about the BT-016's?

Quite happy with the idea of the Rosso up front have no idea what they are like in the wet and would appreciate any comments.

Cheers
D
Rosso's are good in the wet , no complaints about spinning or sliding pushing reasonably hard on roads I know in the rain , coming off this weekend and BT016,s going on . Anyone want a slightly used pair of Rosso,s for $350 ,still got plenty of tread on them

stormy1

6th November 2008, 11:53

slimjim

6th November 2008, 12:25

Point of order...the Pilot Road is NOT the same as Pilot Road 2. Different compound/s and different tread pattern. I would not put a Road on a sprotbike.

By cupping, I take it you mean the slight uprise on the trailing edge of a groove and rounding off of the leading edge? I've never found a tyre that doesn't do that to a degree.

could you please explain more...i run pilot road on the xjr.currently getting nearly 9000km on rear and 12000 off front.yup heavy sports production bike two heavy riders,we ride quickly and normal bepending on weather etc..mates etc..and what's pilot road 2...is it solely sport tire?

mouldy

6th November 2008, 12:36

And you are changing them because .....?
Because I sell bike tyres for a living and I try to run everything as it comes out so I have first hand knowledge of how it performs .

Toast

6th November 2008, 15:32

Because I sell bike tyres for a living and I try to run everything as it comes out so I have first hand knowledge of how it performs .

Monkey likes the 016s on his 750. I'll be trying them out this weekend :niceone:

discotex

6th November 2008, 16:21

Rosso's are good in the wet , no complaints about spinning or sliding pushing reasonably hard on roads I know in the rain , coming off this weekend and BT016,s going on . Anyone want a slightly used pair of Rosso,s for $350 ,still got plenty of tread on them

Monkey likes the 016s on his 750. I'll be trying them out this weekend :niceone:

Would be great if you guys could add your impressions on the 016 to this thread.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=84353

MSTRS

6th November 2008, 16:30

Just to clarify, here are the tread patterns of the types in discussion

could you please explain more...i run pilot road on the xjr.currently getting nearly 9000km on rear and 12000 off front.yup heavy sports production bike two heavy riders,we ride quickly and normal bepending on weather etc..mates etc..and what's pilot road 2...is it solely sport tire?

I thought everyone knew...go to my quoted post. Hover your cursor over the thumb nails for the tyre type.
Road is hard touring compound. Road 2 is dual compound ...hard in the centre for long life and soft/stick on the sides same as an ordinary Power.

Gremlin

6th November 2008, 23:48

Haven't run the Road Attacks, so I can't comment on them, but I have used the Sport Attack, not suitable for you (which you already know).

Really can't complain with the PR2, takes a lot to unsettle, grips well from cold just about, decent in the wet too.

No idea how many kilometres the tyres have done, but should have done in excess of 10k, and its just about completely commuting, round town traffic etc.

slofox

8th November 2008, 18:44

While we are on the subject, any opinions on Dunlop Sportmax? D220? How do they compare with those under discussion here...?

Hitcher

9th November 2008, 15:57

While we are on the subject, any opinions on Dunlop Sportmax? D220? How do they compare with those under discussion here...?

I think those are now obsolete, being replaced by the Sportmax Roadsmart. I'm currently running a set of those, purchased in Flagstaff Arizona. They seem to handle OK, but aren't as good on the transitions from wet roads to dry roads and back again, as are the Avon Storms. The back particularly feels ambiguous in certain conditions. The front, while turning very quickly, also feels leaden -- a strange mix of attributes. I will be interested to see how well they wear.

mouldy

11th November 2008, 20:29

While we are on the subject, any opinions on Dunlop Sportmax? D220? How do they compare with those under discussion here...?

220s are 'orrible , fronts wear funny and they were replaced fairly quickly with the 221 which turned into the Roadsmart .
First report on the BT016 after a fang down the Forgotten Highway SH43 .They turn marginally slower than Diablo Rossos but the differnce is very slight , grip is awesome and knowing that outside edge of the rear is slick like does funny thigs to your head and I think theres a good chance the edge may disappear before the centre .