Crash scenes. What to do.

[dpex]

The very first thing to remember, when arriving at a crash scene is; you will be as freaked out as anyone else there who wasn't involved. You will probably have zero knowledge of what to do for the victims and so, probably, will everybody else. So the first thing to establish is...'Is there anyone here with medical knowledge?'

If the response is zero, then yell, very loudly. 'Then nobody touch anybody!'

Dead or alive? That's the first question after you quell the wannabe doctors.

Death is ugly, but you have to maintain your cool. The simple death-test is the victim's eyes. If they're closed the victim is still alive. If they are open and not moving, lightly touch the pupil with your finger. No response equals dead.

Another good indicator is the stench of shit and piss. When a person dies they void their shit and piss.

Okay, so you establish one is dead. Go to the next. You can't help the other. Perform the same test if the victim's eyes are open. On rare occasions, shock can cause the eyes to stay open. But it's rare.

The next you find has closed eyes. First rule. Gently roll them on their side. Don't worry about spinal damage. Better a live para than choking to death on vomit or other obstructions.

If you can't clearly detect breathing, open the visor. Order someone to smash someone's mirror. Hold a shard near the victims nose and mouth. No frost on the mirror means little or no breathing, but if the eyes are still closed the victim is still alive.

There's a fair chance the live victim will have limbs either missing or severely messed up. Apply tourniquets above major limb bleed points. Any old thing will do. Ripped fabric and a bit of stick works. Tie the fabric in a loose loop around the limb, shove the stick into the loop and start twisting till the blood stops. Warning! You must left the pressure off a tourniquet EVERY three minutes. Just let a little blood flow then tighten again.

Holes in a body. The most serious holes are those near the lungs, so get a box-cutter or pair of scissors, anything! And cut away any clothing around the chest if there's been an obvious intrusion into that area.

If you find hole, stick your finger into it. The hole will naturally suck onto you finger (it feels terrible but remember, you're saving a live, so suck it up) and the blood-flow will diminish dramatically.

If the victim is breathing, and you have stemmed the serious blood-flows, then there's a chance.

Breathing...

The human throat...that part between your chin and the little V of bone at the bottom of your throat AKA, your larynx ....is, arguably, the part most sensitive to blunt-force trauma. So the victim may not have shit stuck in his/her throat, it could be closed due to trauma. In this case you must immediately perform a tracheotomy. You need three things. Guts. A sharp something and a tube...The shell of a ball-point pen. A bit of slim hose off your bike (hydraulic tube is good and don't worry about cleaning it, you won't have time).

Run your finger down the choking soul's throat till you feel the bony V. Shove the sharp thing into the victim's throat. Make a hole big enough to get what ever tube you have at hand. Shove in the tube. The hole will close around the tube. The victim should start breathing. If not, start CPR.

BTW: There are very few sensory nerves around the area you need to dig a hole in the victim's throat, so don't hesitate lest your might think you could add to his/her pain. You won't. He/She won't even feel it.


BTW. You have about three minutes to do all this, so hesitation could render the victim seriously brain-damaged or very dead.

And yes, I have done this, albeit many years ago. It was terrifying then and will be if I have to ever do it again. But the girl lived.

I think the most important attribute to have at any accident scene is the ability to shut down your emotions. Clear, logical thinking saves lives. Hysteria or fear of touching gore, loses them. To save a life you must rise above all those who are wailing, and just get on with it as best as you can.

Take control of all around you by being seen to be in charge. Yell at them with short, positive statements. 'You. Get a knife!' 'You, hold this here!' 'You, press down here!' Your show of confidence will gather in the help of the fearful.

And then you just have to hope you've done the best. But if you can keep your head while all around your are losing theirs, you might just pull off a stroke.

And if you don't? Well. You did your best.

[AllanB]

So its wrong to grab the wallets and get the hell out of there then?

:dodge::dodge::dodge::dodge::dodge::dodge:

[MadDuck]

So its wrong to grab the wallets and get the hell out of there then?

Waste of time if its bikers. Mostly empty wallets.......

[dpex]

So its wrong to grab the wallets and get the hell out of there then?

:dodge::dodge::dodge::dodge::dodge::dodge:

If the wallet has stuff it of value, you may as well. But you might like to consider boots, leathers, gold fillings.

[98tls]

Fwiw if you are the one to ring 111 get your shit together before you do,my old lady works at one of the 111 call centers and tells me that a (in the big picture) shitload of time is wasted trying to understand wtf people who have been/are involved/come across etc an accident are saying as they go into hyperland and she cant understand a word there saying,at times she has to be pretty blunt to get them to calm down.

[Murray]

The human throat...that part between your chin and the little V of bone at the bottom of your throat AKA, your larynx ....is, arguably, the part most sensitive to blunt-force trauma. So the victim may not have shit stuck in his/her throat, it could be closed due to trauma. In this case you must immediately perform a tracheotomy. You need three things. Guts. A sharp something and a tube...The shell of a ball-point pen. A bit of slim hose off your bike (hydraulic tube is good and don't worry about cleaning it, you won't have time).

Run your finger down the choking soul's throat till you feel the bony V. Shove the sharp thing into the victim's throat. Make a hole big enough to get what ever tube you have at hand. Shove in the tube. The hole will close around the tube. The victim should start breathing. If not, start CPR.


Some very valid points BUT having just done the advanced first aid courses we were told in no uncertain terms "do not believe what you see or hear about doing a tracheotomy and pens in the throat etc" Mouth to mouth was promoted if breathing trouble, the pushing on the chest should help open passageways and no matter how small a gap there is air will get through.

[Hitcher]

I don't know how useful threads like this are. Not everybody is a qualified paramedic or emergency service operative. All you can do at any accident is what you feel comfortable doing, particularly given that you will probably be experiencing various levels of trauma and anxiety yourself. In such circumstances one's ability to recall words of advice one may have once read will probably be severely diminished.

In many cases people who aren't able to contribute productively should just piss off and keep out of the way.

[motorbyclist]

I don't know how useful threads like this are.

we do all realise this is a piss-take right?



on a more serious note - why don't more bikers do first aid courses?

[MadDuck]

On a more serious note - why don't more bikers do first aid courses?

How do you know they dont?

A few years ago Firefight, Speedie and Draco used to organise nights which were focused more on "biker" accidents. They were much more useful than general first aid courses.

Afterall if I was to (god forbid) come across a bike accident while out riding what the hell use is being able to apply a bandage really going to be?

[Trudes]

we do all realise this is a piss-take right?



on a more serious note - why don't more bikers do first aid courses?

I have to have a current 1st aid cert at all times.......
and have been told not to perform tracheotomies or to move people unless they are obviously in danger or have to be moved to perform chest compressions.
I agree with Hitcher about only being able to do what you can and what you feel comfortable doing, sometimes people can do more harm than good while trying to help and not having any idea what they are doing.
First aid courses are good for giving you some idea, but panic can fuck with your calm and reactions.

[motorbyclist]

How do you know they dont?

ok making an assumption, but i personally know of no bikers who claim to have first aid training and i myself havn't done any for about 3 years now



Afterall if I was to (god forbid) come across a bike accident while out riding what the hell use is being able to apply a bandage really going to be?

first aid courses (the proper ones) include what to do and not do in an emergency

that includes CPR, stemming blood loss, checking for major injury etc etc

on of the ones i did even had a bit about safely removing a bike helmet -which of course should only be done if absolutely neccessary.

ie, not 'just putting on a bandage'...


and yes, i've used that training at least twice, both offroad, once on a very good friend of mine with a very serious neck injury. while it was shit scary i knew what to do and was able to do it... also knew how serious the situation was too.

EDIT: might add i've myself been in the situation of frustration that the fuckwits who nearly killed me have no idea of what to do with me. NO SHIT IT'S WORSE EVERY TIME YOU LOOK AT IT - IT'S CALLED BLEEDING YOU FUCKWIT:angry2: - luckily help was only a short drive away
edit2: they also gave false details. fuckers.
edit3:no i didn't actually shout that at him. wasn't able to shout, was hard enough to breathe. paramedics were surprised i didn't break any ribs.


I have to have a current 1st aid cert at all times.......
and have been told not to perform tracheotomies or to move people unless they are obviously in danger or have to be moved to perform chest compressions.


oh of course, but poking them in the eye isn't exactly best practice.... or even a method of determining anything

[Pwalo]

I have to have a current 1st aid cert at all times.......
and have been told not to perform tracheotomies or to move people unless they are obviously in danger or have to be moved to perform chest compressions.
I agree with Hitcher about only being able to do what you can and what you feel comfortable doing, sometimes people can do more harm than good while trying to help and not having any idea what they are doing.
First aid courses are good for giving you some idea, but panic can fuck with your calm and reactions.

What she said. I'm also obliged to have a first aid and CPR cert. Just call 111, and do what you can.

[Hitcher]

we do all realise this is a piss-take right?

Do we? And how is it that we know this?

[Murray]

I agree with Hitcher. Being one who takes the piss more often than not I really fail to see what the "piss-take" is. certainly doing a first aid course last month opened my eyes to a lot of rights and wrongs (including the pen in the throat misconception)

[rachprice]

God you would wanna hope so!
NO emergency tracheotomies! Even some qualified doctors would no doubt get the shit beaten out of them for these cowboy antics!
And yes CPR will quite often dislodge whats in there anyway
I dunno about the torniquet thing either who is going to remember to loosen it off while they are freaking out trying to deal to other people in need?
Pressure is the key, if conscious get the person to hold themselves or someone else with you to do it.
With the checking if breathing (because you can waste a lot of time wondering did I see/feel that?) I would just check pulse....carotid is the easiest to feel, if you have no pulse you definitely won be breathing and if you stop breathing your not gonna have a pulse for long.
I dont think all those with their eyes closed are alive either! You dont always die with your eyes open.
I think the thing that got me when we did first aid in class was to recognise when someone has visible brain matter (not in head), a LOT of blood etc (basically almost dead anyway) you deal to the other people who you can save.
Its incredibly brutal but someone who you could have saved might bleed out while your trying to fix someone who was going to die no matter what you did.
Definitely put unconscious people into the recovery position, try and move them with someone else and prop head up if suspect spinal injury but only if you can, I agree better paralysed than dead!

[Quasievil]

on a more serious note - why don't more bikers do first aid courses?

Same reason they dont slow the fuck down on the roads.

[Goblin]

The last time I was first on the scene I had no clue what to do. One guy was seriously injured and just lay on the bank, quiet as and sweating. As more people arrived there was one woman who kept saying "I'm a nurse!" I reckon she did more harm than good cos she kept trying to move him, all the while telling everyone "It's ok, I'm a nurse!"
Poor bloke was in agony and every time she poked him he would try and yell but her response "its ok, I'm a nurse!" Ended up telling her to leave him alone and wait for paramedics. Only thing I could do was hold a blanket up to keep the hot sun off him.
When ambo arrived there was only one woman by herself. She eventually realized she couldn't get him to hospital by herself so called for the rescue helicopter. As they were putting him on a stretcher one morbid bitch started taking photos!!!

So in my experience, dont trust the mouthy nurse. She might be a great nurse in a rest home hospital but know nothing about trauma. I mean is it really necessary to poke and prod an injured person to make them scream?

[Devil]

There are a few too many missing parts and vague areas in the original post.

The first thing you need to do on reaching an accident scene is making sure it is safe. Accidents can happen on the shittiest bit of road and having traffic fly around a corner can just add to the problem!

Unconscious people. You need to check breathing first. If they're breathing fine, dont touch them. Dont fuck with people who dont need it.

[motorbyclist]

Do we? And how is it that we know this?

There are a few too many missing parts and vague areas in the original post.

and some downright bullshit thrown in too

humorous, yes in parts, but with a bit of fact thrown in you never know who's going to believe the lot of it.


T I mean is it really necessary to poke and prod an injured person to make them scream?

not in that situation but if you do know what you're doing the emergency services could use your information to send the chopper first rather than a single paramedic - which can make a big difference if someone is losing a lot of blood or time is otherwise a factor

that nurse sounds like a guy who sold a fucked zxr250 to a learner mate of mine - "it's ok i'm an engineer". it wasn't ok or anything near it

[devnull]

we do all realise this is a piss-take right?



on a more serious note - why don't more bikers do first aid courses?

I'd hope so, but then again, I've also seen members of the public do some bloody stupid things at RTC's
(RTC = road traffic crash)

EVERYONE should do a first aid course, not just bikers.
One of the best things you can do is to protect the scene i.e. make it safe. (DO THIS FIRST!)

Get people directing traffic so that others don't get run down, and leave the tourniquets and throat cutting for the movies :jerry:

[Katman]

Dpex, do you just like the sound of your own voice?

[Storm]

Since we're all putting in our 2c, heres mine-the DRS ABC

1)Danger- to you and others eg casualty-no good turning one stretcher case into two because you charged in willy-nilly. If there are other people present, especially the ones who are wigging out, get them to go up the road/around the bend etc to slow and warn traffic

2)Repsonsiveness-call aloud to them. Tap thier collar bone-the bit where its just under the skin- with a forcefull finger(unless they have obvious injuries)

3) Send for help- send someone to a phone/task them to ring 111. (Pick someone who's in a lucid state and can give a concise description)

4) Airway- check for obstructions. Tilt head back if possible/safe to do so

5) Breathing- is the casualty doing so-however slight? If not consider utilising CPR in order to keep the brain oxygenated. Its doesnt need bugger all o2 to keep someone from becoming a vegetable

6) Circulation-using the press on a fingernail to check capillary refill-ie how quick does blood flow back. Check wioth a quick body search for major bleeds-especially if they are lying on thier back and you cant see under them.

7) Remember three things- anything you can do may help, but if you dont know what you are doing and think that what you could do may seriously bugger someone up, dont do it. You didnt ask to be a trauma nurse/doctor, no-one expects you to be one.

8) Hope like buggery you never have to be in the situation in the first place!!

[devnull]

Since we're all putting in our 2c, heres mine-the DRS ABC

1)Danger- to you and others eg casualty-no good turning one stretcher case into two because you charged in willy-nilly. If there are other people present, especially the ones who are wigging out, get them to go up the road/around the bend etc to slow and warn traffic

2)Repsonsiveness-call aloud to them. Tap thier collar bone-the bit where its just under the skin- with a forcefull finger(unless they have obvious injuries)

3) Send for help- send someone to a phone/task them to ring 111. (Pick someone who's in a lucid state and can give a concise description)

4) Airway- check for obstructions. Tilt head back if possible/safe to do so

5) Breathing- is the casualty doing so-however slight? If not consider utilising CPR in order to keep the brain oxygenated. Its doesnt need bugger all o2 to keep someone from becoming a vegetable

6) Circulation-using the press on a fingernail to check capillary refill-ie how quick does blood flow back. Check wioth a quick body search for major bleeds-especially if they are lying on thier back and you cant see under them.

7) Remember three things- anything you can do may help, but if you dont know what you are doing and think that what you could do may seriously bugger someone up, dont do it. You didnt ask to be a trauma nurse/doctor, no-one expects you to be one.

8) Hope like buggery you never have to be in the situation in the first place!!

Not bad...

A couple of points though

Head tilt? A technique called a modified jaw thrust is preferred, which is lifting the jaw forward from the angle of the jaw. Learn it, in a classroom, before you need it.

Circulation - peripheral circulation shuts down very quickly. You only need to determine if there is a pulse, and is there life-threatening bleeding (in which case, you'd use direct pressure to control it)

There's quite a lot of practical skills, which can't be conveyed on a message board, that are involved in basic emergency care. The only way to acquire those skills is to do a course, and practise

[vifferman]

I've never been on the scene of an accident (apart from a few of my own), and I'd be next to useless, despite having some first-aid training. I go into shock very easily (yes, I know what it is - I'm not just being dramatic!), more so - strangely enough - when it's someone else who's suffering. I dunno how much help I'd actually be, so knowing stuff and being able to put it into practice are two different things. It's different when you do this stuff every day for a living, and can be logical, calm and unemotional about it.

My last "oops" was luckily fairly minor, and I was also lucky that two passers-by were trained medical professionals, one a doctor, and one a nurse, one on their way to work, and one coming off shift. They were there within what seemed like milliseconds of the crash, and the WAAAAAHmbulance was there some minutes laters. The Trained Medical Professionals did almost NOTHING while waiting for the Other More Suitably Trained Medical professionals to arrive: they asked me some questions, made sure I was in as little discomfort as possible, and that I didn't move. I'm sure that unless I needed CPR, or was majorly leaking, they wouldn't have done much more. Still, it was very reassuring to have them there, to be told by them who they were, in a matter-of-fact and calm manner. The paramedics were great too. Things only fell apart somewhat when I arrived at D'Auckland Hospital (this was while it was being renovated). It took HOURS before I was checked, x-rayed, jabbed and hobbled white-faced out the door. During those hours, I spent a lot of time lying half-clad on a gurney in the hallway or another hallway. Our "health care" system needs a serious amount of money spent on it. Like most (all?) gummint departments, it has a surfeit of (mostly useless) bureaucrats, and a severe shortage of funds and equipment.

[Toaster]

Anyone else get bored reading all that?

[Toaster]

And keep ya bloody pen to yourself!

[vifferman]

Anyone else get bored reading all that?
Well... I do get bored easily, so I just skimmed the posts.
Speaking of bored, is it just me, or has KB become REALLY boring lately?
I'm not super busy at work, so I need it to be more entertaining. :Pokey:

[Katman]

Last thing I want is some moron hacking away at my throat with a piece of broken rear view mirror and inserting a length of radiator overflow hose because he read somewhere on KB that it was the thing to do.

[Murray]

Well... I do get bored easily, so I just skimmed the posts.
Speaking of bored, is it just me, or has KB become REALLY boring lately?
I'm not super busy at work, so I need it to be more entertaining. :Pokey:

Need some more smartarse comments on it like "its only got boring since you are not busy and have been posting more"

[devnull]

Last thing I want is some moron hacking away at my throat with a piece of broken rear view mirror and inserting a length of radiator overflow hose because he read it somewhere on KB.

He might not be doing it to save you... you might've just pissed him off with some of your posts :jerry:


On a more serious note, I'm an ex-ambo, which means I don't regularly practice the skills used any more.

I'll do enough to keep the victim alive until those that DO practice those skills turn up.

That means basic life support. That's it. Not roadside brain surgery.

Then I'll piss off to the pub with the loose change the victim had in their pockets (if you want good service, carry enough for beer) :laugh:

[Katman]

He might not be doing it to save you...



Good point - the fact that it's only my ankle that's broken might not occur to him.

[nodrog]

Last thing I want is some moron hacking away at my throat with a piece of broken rear view mirror and inserting a length of radiator overflow hose because he read somewhere on KB that it was the thing to do.

especially when all you have is a broken ankle

[nallac]

Good point - the fact that it's only my ankle that's broken might not occur to him.


of course we know its ya ankle thats broken, but its not going to stop us..
now wheres that broken mirror and hose...:shifty::shifty:

[Xile]

Maybe not everything in that post is really accurate, but it raises the point that more people should take the first aid course, and know some basics that can help!

I think that Speedie and co should try to organise those 'biker first aid course' nights if they can.

And my 2 cents: when you arrive at an accident scene, first determine the state of the victim (uncouscious/conscious, breathing?) and make someone call 111 with where you are/what happened/number of victim/state of the victim/what you've done to them (CPR, lay them on their side, cover them with blankets, take off gloves and boots, keeping them conscious and talking etc), stay calm and secure the area with cars/bikes to stop the traffic, and tell watchers to fuck off and keep an clear area around you and the victim.

But i'm no medic/ambo or anything so if one of them could confirm...

[Devil]

And my 2 cents: when you arrive at an accident scene, first determine the state of the victim
You mean how far under the hedge they are? :done:

[Murray]

By some of the posts that appear on here from time to time I would have thought the first thing to do would be to logon to the KB site and start a thread "Biker down in accident at ????"

[Katman]

By some of the posts that appear on here from time to time I would have thought the first thing to do would be to logon to the KB site and start a thread "Biker down in accident at ????"

There could be a race to see who gets home first to claim the gratification of being the one to 'break the news'.

[devnull]

And my 2 cents: when you arrive at an accident scene, first determine the state of the victim

See to your own safety first, then the safety of the victim.
No need to create more injured people...

Safety, Airway, Breathing, Circulation

If they're breathing, it's pretty safe to assume they have a pulse...

[dpex]

ok making an assumption, but i personally know of no bikers who claim to have first aid training and i myself havn't done any for about 3 years now



first aid courses (the proper ones) include what to do and not do in an emergency

that includes CPR, stemming blood loss, checking for major injury etc etc

on of the ones i did even had a bit about safely removing a bike helmet -which of course should only be done if absolutely neccessary.

ie, not 'just putting on a bandage'...


and yes, i've used that training at least twice, both offroad, once on a very good friend of mine with a very serious neck injury. while it was shit scary i knew what to do and was able to do it... also knew how serious the situation was too.

EDIT: might add i've myself been in the situation of frustration that the fuckwits who nearly killed me have no idea of what to do with me. NO SHIT IT'S WORSE EVERY TIME YOU LOOK AT IT - IT'S CALLED BLEEDING YOU FUCKWIT:angry2: - luckily help was only a short drive away
edit2: they also gave false details. fuckers.
edit3:no i didn't actually shout that at him. wasn't able to shout, was hard enough to breathe. paramedics were surprised i didn't break any ribs.



oh of course, but poking them in the eye isn't exactly best practice.... or even a method of determining anything

As a matter of fact it does, Trudes. Dead things don't blink, or otherwise protest when you poke them in the eye.

[dpex]

Last thing I want is some moron hacking away at my throat with a piece of broken rear view mirror and inserting a length of radiator overflow hose because he read somewhere on KB that it was the thing to do.

Actually, Katman, I think such "treatment" might be just what you need even before you have a crash. Although, I suspect, that were I the person on the scene, delivering to you the hack-and-tube, I may be tempted to pour a bit of 'something' down the tube just to kick your period off, early.

[dpex]

Good point - the fact that it's only my ankle that's broken might not occur to him.

In your case, Katman, I'd poke you in the eye, just for drill.

[dpex]

of course we know its ya ankle thats broken, but its not going to stop us..
now wheres that broken mirror and hose...:shifty::shifty:

Thank you nallac. Gave me a belly laugh.

[Katman]

Fuck me, you do like the sound of your own voice, don't you?

[carver]

the crucial thing is to wheelie away from the crash site

[Pussy]

Seems to be heaps of love being extended to Katman on this one!
Bit like the axe that all topdressing planes have in the cockpit... they reckon it's there to help cut the pilot out of the wreckage in the event of an accident... more like to bash the pilot on the head to put him out of his misery

[Mikkel]

Unless you have had any proper first aid training there are exactly four things you can do at an accident scene. Listed by priority:

1. Stop the accident - make sure no more people get caught up in the mess. Make sure to put markers before blind corners, etc. Turn off engines still running if applicable.

2. Call the emegency services - and as was said, try to stay calm when you do so.

3. Exercise psychological first aid (requires but a microgram of empathy).

4. Don't obstruct the work of the emergency response unit when it gets there.

General good advice: Don't panic and try and stay detached if at all possible.

If you'd like someone with knowledge of first aid to be present if you ever come to grief, then you should go out and do a first aid course tomorrow. Karma and all... (besides, you can become mortally wounded without becoming totally incapacitated so even through egoistical reasoning it's not a bad idea).

One thing though - fire is a general exception to any and all rules. If something is burning drag people away (nevermind neck injuries, internal bleeding, etc) and try to put it out. Fire is always bad news.

Whether this thread is a pisstake or not I don't care - but this is my serious advice if you encounter an accident scene.

[James Deuce]

This has been done before. I stand by my most recent contribution to the quality body of knowledge already present on KB.

Don't Stop. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1496639&postcount=9)

[Mikkel]

This has been done before. I stand by my most recent contribution to the quality body of knowledge already present on KB.

Don't Stop. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1496639&postcount=9)

It's certainly not the worst of approaches... as long as you don't have any trouble sleeping at night.

And it harmonises quite well with my advice about remaining emotionally detached from the situation too.

[Katman]

It's certainly not the worst of approaches... as long as you don't have any trouble sleeping at night.

I've always found beer helps with that.

:msn-wink:

[MadDuck]

I've always found beer helps with that.

Bourbon works just as well too so I hear

[Katman]

Bourbon works just as well too so I hear

Ah yes, that too.

:msn-wink:

[jrandom]

I should also note here that severe spinal-column injuries, with the concomitant combination of high mortality and immediate paralysis, offer unique challenges for onlookers, but also unique opportunities - the additional flexibility of the soon-to-be-corpse makes it far more straightforward to put the rider's head between their legs, thereby allowing them to kiss their arse goodbye.

[Swoop]

I mean is it really necessary to poke and prod an injured person to make them scream?
Yes, most definately if it involves an injured politician.

[Hitcher]

http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=p8njwud5kLY

[The Lone Rider]

And after you have finished guaging the situation, phoned the emergency service, and got the alive more comfortable.. don't forget to say a prayer, ask them what religion they would like their service done in, and then make small talk to keep them distracted. <_<

[Trudes]

As a matter of fact it does, Trudes. Dead things don't blink, or otherwise protest when you poke them in the eye.

It does what? Are you talking about poking people in the eye for a reaction? I didn't mention anything about doing or not doing that, so what are you on about?

[El Dopa]

Dont make holes in peoples throats, they will get real pissy later on.

Didn't realise there was a direct connection between throat and bladder.

[JMemonic]

3) Send for help- send someone to a phone/task them to ring 111. (Pick someone who's in a lucid state and can give a concise description)



22 posts before someone states this little nugget, and then its at number 3, it should be number 1 or at worst 2 after making sure you are safe yourself, god folks you cannot control traffic preform cpr etc by yourself, get help, and if you know first aid then mores the better but still <b>get help</b>

[Griffin]

DPex, after reading this thread... more accurately, after reading the first post... I have decided to take up prayer in the hope that if EVER I have the misfortune to be in an accident, you (or anyone who has taken your post as gospel) are several hundred kilometres away with no means of transport.

As a currently practicing Paramedic I would urge anyone wjith the inclination, who hasnt already done so, to investigate doing a first aid course through a reputable trainer.

There are however some good points raised muddled in with the rest of this garbage... Mikkels is one such post.

I can add that one of the largest hurdles we as Emergency Personnell face in situations like this is 'scene location' especially when its in a sei rural / rural area with fewer landmarks... if your the one to make the call please try to be as precise as possible - maybe someone on the scene is a local who knows the areas road names and can identify to our call centres exactly where the accident is at.

[James Deuce]

It's certainly not the worst of approaches... as long as you don't have any trouble sleeping at night.

I've got three kids. I can sleep through fucking anything. Except one of them waking up.

[Ixion]

DPex, after reading this thread... more accurately, after reading the first post... I have decided to take up prayer in the hope that if EVER I have the misfortune to be in an accident, you (or anyone who has taken your post as gospel) are several hundred kilometres away with no means of transport.

As a currently practicing Paramedic I would urge anyone wjith the inclination, who hasnt already done so, to investigate doing a first aid course through a reputable trainer.

There are however some good points raised muddled in with the rest of this garbage... Mikkels is one such post.

I can add that one of the largest hurdles we as Emergency Personnell face in situations like this is 'scene location' especially when its in a sei rural / rural area with fewer landmarks... if your the one to make the call please try to be as precise as possible - maybe someone on the scene is a local who knows the areas road names and can identify to our call centres exactly where the accident is at.

Now that GPS receivers are common, can emergency services use a geo code for location?

[The Pastor]

also note, if a biker has come off and has minor injurys (i.e, hes not going to die) DO NOT call the ambo. The police get notifed and you have a high chance of getting a ticket as well. If you can get the bike off the road, clean up any broken glass plastic etc on the road. talk to any other parties involved give them your full details and say my insurance will take care of this (its not admitting liablity) then get down to an A&E.

The only thing cops are good for at accidents are tickets.

Of cource if the accident is not the bikers fault, call the cops asap. :D

[<Rhino>]

I have to agree with Speedie and Griffin here. Working in the field, the biggest problem is bystanders who watched every episode of ER and now think they are a doctor and finding the location in the first place. Saying your down a long road surrounded by paddocks is not going to make it any easier!

Please read this thread with due care and an open mind, most of it is pure BS and to be honest is quite harmful. For us who see this kind of trauma on a regular basis BS like this is just a pain in the arse and usually comes from people with over active imaginations that have never even been to a fatal let alone have the experience or qualification to give notes on the topic!

If you are genuinely concerned then go and do a course, however be aware that dealing with majour trauma and death is not for everyone, if you do come across somthing and you cant deal with it you dont have to and no one will think any less of you for not.

[Griffin]

Now that GPS receivers are common, can emergency services use a geo code for location?

To be honest Im not sure, but I can find out. The dispatchers send us to a location giving us a physical address and in the case of rural areas, fire numbers or dominant landmarks as detailed by the caller. We dont have a GPS in the Ambulance to use as an address locating tool (unless an individual AO purchases his/her own). :crazy:

Our Ambulances (Wellington Free Ambulance) are all tracked by GPS so that Comms can see where we are in relation to jobs etc and its possible that appropriate geo codes may be of some help... I will find out and get back to you.

[dpex]

How many live to tell the tale? And when they do, how many of them will spend the rest of their lives sipping steak and eggs through a straw and having someone else wipe their bum? Fuck that!

Nar. On the highway we ride as Cerberus laughs at our puny belief in our mortality. We are, after all, on two wheels with zero protection....although I have been thinking about fitting myself out with a safety belt....

Believe in fate, destiny, luck, bad luck....believe what you wish, but remember, always, the Katmans of this world are always the most surprised when there anal retentive riding leads them into a head-on with a big yellow truck. There last thoughts are, 'I isn't my fault!' Squish.

Shit happens. You either get out of bed and go hard for the day, or you stay there, in bed, in fear, till you rot away.

Personally, I would way prefer to have some on-to-it guy or girl do whatever he/she thought might be the ticket. You know, hack at my throat, stuff in a bit of brake hose, let me breathe long enough to confess my sins till the darkness arrived....than be surrounded by brain-dumps chirruping, 'What do we do now!?' idiots.

Seems to me there are four categories of bikers. a) those who fear the wall. b) those who ride along the wall. c) those who hit the wall and their last thought is, "Bugger"! d) those who don't give a fuck for the wall.

But the sad thing is, those who fear the wall are no less invited to oblivion than those who don't give a fuck.

Ergo. Shit happens. "Better to burn out, than fade away. Yeah, yeah, Hey, hey."

[Katman]

Believe in fate, destiny, luck, bad luck....believe what you wish, but remember, always, the Katmans of this world are always the most surprised when there anal retentive riding leads them into a head-on with a big yellow truck. There last thoughts are, 'I isn't my fault!' Squish.



For the time being I'll just believe in myself.

[Hitcher]

This thread has been really useful. Mrs H was a bit quiet in bed the other morning, so I successfully performed an emergency tracheotomy which perked her up a treat.

[James Deuce]

Believe in fate, destiny, luck, bad luck....believe what you wish, but remember, always, the Katmans of this world are always the most surprised when there anal retentive riding leads them into a head-on with a big yellow truck. There last thoughts are, 'I isn't my fault!' Squish.



I think you'll find the Katmans and the James Deuces are the LAST people who's last thought would be what you suggest.

[kiwi cowboy]

There could be a race to see who gets home first to claim the gratification of being the one to 'break the news'.

By the time you have your helmit on and bike started someone would have allready got onto there new mobile phone thingy and posted it "RACE OVER":lol::hug:

[Griffin]

Seems to me there are four categories of bikers. a) those who fear the wall. b) those who ride along the wall. c) those who hit the wall and their last thought is, "Bugger"! d) those who don't give a fuck for the wall.

riiiiight, what a load of :puke:

[kiwi cowboy]

Seems to be heaps of love being extended to Katman on this one!
Bit like the axe that all topdressing planes have in the cockpit... they reckon it's there to help cut the pilot out of the wreckage in the event of an accident... more like to bash the pilot on the head to put him out of his misery

Yer but the hole you had to hack in the cockpit with something else to get to the axe [you no were im going with this]:bleh::bleh::niceone:

[Mikkel]

I can sleep through fucking anything.

I hope your wife doesn't find out :devil2:

[James Deuce]

She probably already has. Women know everything.

[Mikkel]

She probably already has. Women know everything.

Hmmm, they would fit in well on KB then :D

[Hitcher]

Hmmm, they would fit in well on KB then

You misunderstand. There is a quantum difference between knowing everything and having an opinion on everything. The inimitable Mrs Deuce clearly falls into the former grouping. Me and most other KB contributors fall into the latter. The Mrs Deuces of this world also have way too much sense than to waste their lives sparring with mental dolts. They have much we could learn from in that regard.

[Ixion]

.. finding the location in the first place. Saying your down a long road surrounded by paddocks is not going to make it any easier!

..


The problem is of course, that often one really has no idea of where one is. Even before allowing for concussion and shock and such.

I have never had to home in emergency services, but I have called up recovery vehicles. And sometimes it does come down to "Um, lotsa paddocks. And about half an hour ago I steamed through some hick town with a Maori name that I didn't take any notice of" . Or, sometimes, "Down a bank, lots of trees everywhere".
</rhino>

[alanzs]

Seems to me there are four categories of bikers. a) those who fear the wall. b) those who ride along the wall. c) those who hit the wall and their last thought is, "Bugger"! d) those who don't give a fuck for the wall.

I think you forgot the 5th type of biker - the ones who say "what the fuck is a wall?"

Nobody gets out of here alive. Till then, lets ride! :laugh:

[dpex]

This thread has been really useful. Mrs H was a bit quiet in bed the other morning, so I successfully performed an emergency tracheotomy which perked her up a treat.

Good man! So what did you use for the hacking part? A rust razor? A blunt pen-knife? A shard of broken wine-glass (always my favourite).

What did you use for the tube? I hope you didn't try to use an inflated condom, did ya?

For in-home Trachs, I prefer to use the tube from a Mr Muscle spray bottle cos it cleans up as you work.

[Murray]

This thread has been really useful. Mrs H was a bit quiet in bed the other morning, so I successfully performed an emergency tracheotomy which perked her up a treat.

So what did you stick in her throat??????

[Hitcher]

Good man! So what did you use for the hacking part? A rust razor? A blunt pen-knife? A shard of broken wine-glass (always my favourite).

What did you use for the tube? I hope you didn't try to use an inflated condom, did ya?

There is more than enough apparatus in a standard Suzuki toolkit. All that is required is a strong arm and a little imagination.

A word of advice: Make sure that you don't leave the open tool kit too handy. I have managed to retrieve most items but I think there are still two Allan keys lodged in my rectum.

[Katman]

but I think there are still two Allan keys lodged in my rectum.

Lucky they're not John keys.

[Hitcher]

Lucky they're not John keys.

I understand he's stuck up the Right Honourable The Prime Minister's arse.

[mazz1972]

Earlier this year our bike club committee did a St John first aid course with a primary focus on what to do at an accident we are likely to encounter on our off-road rides, and also how to remove helmet etc etc.

Bloody great value, but there is a hell of a lot to take in and even reading some of this thread has reminded me of plenty of stuff I'd forgotten. I don't know how much I would remember if I came across an accident. Must get the course book out and have a read!

Would seriously suggest that instead of taking anyone's else's advice, do a certified course yourself, or at least get someone with appropriate training to cover the basics with you.

[Jiminy]

Check that the victim's bike is still running. If it's a nice bike, you got yourself a free upgrade. :scooter:


Then I'll piss off to the pub with the loose change the victim had in their pockets (if you want good service, carry enough for beer) :laugh:

That's why I always carry beer with me, who cares about the loose change...


The first thing you need to do on reaching an accident scene is making sure it is safe.

Ok, seriously, this is the first thing I learned in my 1st aid course (it's compulsory for all drivers back home). Glad someone finally mentioned it.