Norton back in business

[Bob]

Norton is back in British hands after 15 years of US ownership.

Stuart Garner has bought back the trademarks and development work relating to the Norton, Manx, Atlas, Commando and Dominator brands.

Mr Garner is looking at establishing a 15,000sq.ft complex at Donington. Mr Garner said “This has been a challenging and exciting period for us.We are proud to have brought the brands back home and we now intend to focus on re-establishing Norton as a premier motorcycling brand across the world."

A new road bike has been promised for 2009.

[oldrider]

What goes round comes round, another British resurgence? Best of luck to them. :yes: John.

[Daffyd]

Good to hear. I hope it works out. I still remember the Manx Nortons racing at Ryal Bush and Teretonga in the late 50's and early 60's. (Along with the 7R AJS's, Vincent Black Lightning, Matchless and Velocettes.) Can't remember the model names of the last two. Maybe G85 Matchless? They were the days. (sigh)

[pete376403]

Good to hear. I hope it works out. I still remember the Manx Nortons racing at Ryal Bush and Teretonga in the late 50's and early 60's. (Along with the 7R AJS's, Vincent Black Lightning, Matchless and Velocettes.) Can't remember the model names of the last two. Maybe G85 Matchless? They were the days. (sigh)

G50 - 500 cc version of the 7R.

[Daffyd]

G50 - 500 cc version of the 7R.

Makes sense...Thanx for that.

There was also a G45, a 350 version.

[Ixion]

Velos is the 60s would have been Venom or Thruxton. Earlier there might still have been some of the pre war (or very early post war) cammy Velos KTT, KTS still competing.

But Velo would have been way out of their class up against a decent Manx. They never got back into racing after the war.

[Motu]

Spare us the Rotax powered ''classic'' please!!!.What happened to the American ''Commando''? That was very nice,paying homage to the Commando in a modern package.That's they way they will have to go...forwards,not back.

[xwhatsit]

Yay! Wonder if they'll take Triumph's strategy -- retros, to get the old (rich) farts all teary-eyed and wallet-opened -- but with some unique modern bikes as well.

The more bike manufacturers the better, competition and diversity is good for all of us.

[Bonez]

Things are looking interesting indeedy. Good luck to them.

[tri boy]

tri boy smashes open the glued up piggy bank in anticipation:woohoo:

[Bob]

[QUOTE=Motu;1773160]Spare us the Rotax powered ''classic'' please!!!.What happened to the American ''Commando''? That was very nice,paying homage to the Commando in a modern package.

Wonder if that (the American Commando) is part of the deal? Or rather the plans and development work? Think that the line "Stuart Garner has bought back the trademarks and development work relating to the Norton, Manx, Atlas, Commando and Dominator brands" points that way.

[GrayWolf]

Yay! Wonder if they'll take Triumph's strategy -- retros, to get the old (rich) farts all teary-eyed and wallet-opened -- but with some unique modern bikes as well.

The more bike manufacturers the better, competition and diversity is good for all of us.

Yeh in 30 years time Yamahondukasaki will introduce the 'RETRO; CBZXL1000RR for YOU old farts to get teary eyed over and open ya wallets!!!

[Bob]

Of classics and moderns... I happen to know the webmaster of one of the biggest classic bike sites. And he told me that whilst the regulars all go on about old bikes and how great they are... and how awful modern bikes are... when it was still in production, one of the most read reviews on the site was of...

.... wait for it...

... Kawasaki W650.

Seems they liked the old concept, but rather fancied modern reliability!

[Bonez]

Of classics and moderns... I happen to know the webmaster of one of the biggest classic bike sites. And he told me that whilst the regulars all go on about old bikes and how great they are... and how awful modern bikes are... when it was still in production, one of the most read reviews on the site was of...

.... wait for it...

... Kawasaki W650.

Seems they liked the old concept, but rather fancied modern reliability!
Still an appealing bike. I'd certainly have one in the shed.

[slofox]

Good to hear. I hope it works out. I still remember the Manx Nortons racing at Ryal Bush and Teretonga in the late 50's and early 60's. (Along with the 7R AJS's, Vincent Black Lightning, Matchless and Velocettes.) Can't remember the model names of the last two. Maybe G85 Matchless? They were the days. (sigh)

There was a G50 Matchless racing round Ruapuna in the early 70's......and DBD Goldstars and 7R's and etc etc etc......then the 2T's came along and shat all over them......

Nice to hear of a Norton resurgence - loved those dominators in their day.....

[jonbuoy]

I don't know how much it went for but I would have thought Triumph might have put in a bid. I'm sure they could knock out some great decent Norton/Triton specials.

[Daffyd]

There was a G50 Matchless racing round Ruapuna in the early 70's......and DBD Goldstars and 7R's and etc etc etc......then the 2T's came along and shat all over them......

Nice to hear of a Norton resurgence - loved those dominators in their day.....

DBD Goldstars? Pardon my ignorance. I remember the BSA Goldstars. Was DBD a sponsor or a team?

[xwhatsit]

DBD Goldstars? Pardon my ignorance. I remember the BSA Goldstars. Was DBD a sponsor or a team?
The Gold Star was a long-running model, the first one was a pre-war model. There were YB32s, ZB34s, BB34s and BB32s, CB34s and CB32s, but the one that is most famous and everybody recognises was the final DBD34 model. (32=350cc, 34=500cc).

Even still, the DBD34 came in lots of different versions, from trials to touring to clubman -- but the Gold Star model that everybody thinks of first is the DBD34 clubman, with the clipons and swept-back exhausts (and massively high gearing, making it a complete prick to ride on the road).

[Daffyd]

The Gold Star was a long-running model, the first one was a pre-war model. There were YB32s, ZB34s, BB34s and BB32s, CB34s and CB32s, but the one that is most famous and everybody recognises was the final DBD34 model. (32=350cc, 34=500cc).

Even still, the DBD34 came in lots of different versions, from trials to touring to clubman -- but the Gold Star model that everybody thinks of first is the DBD34 clubman, with the clipons and swept-back exhausts (and massively high gearing, making it a complete prick to ride on the road).

The number of models no doubt contributed to the ultimate failure of BSA.
History records that bike and car manufacturers that produced multiple models in relatively small numbers as opposed to large numbers of fewer models went broke.

One car maker that springs to mind is Borgward - Hansa, a German family owned firm.

Sorry, a bit off topic.

[slofox]

DBD Goldstars? Pardon my ignorance. I remember the BSA Goldstars. Was DBD a sponsor or a team?

Wot XWHATSIT said....BSA's DBD Goldstar.......I should have made my meaning clear...

[Ixion]

..

Even still, the DBD34 came in lots of different versions, from trials to touring to clubman -- but the Gold Star model that everybody thinks of first is the DBD34 clubman, with the clipons and swept-back exhausts (and massively high gearing, making it a complete prick to ride on the road).

And close ratio gearbox to boot. AND an Amal GP carb which had no idle circuit whatsoever.

[xwhatsit]

The number of models no doubt contributed to the ultimate failure of BSA.
History records that bike and car manufacturers that produced multiple models in relatively small numbers as opposed to large numbers of fewer models went broke.

One car maker that springs to mind is Borgward - Hansa, a German family owned firm.

Sorry, a bit off topic.
Well... maybe, but I don't think so. You're talking four, five models over twenty years. Take a look at the Jap manufacturers in comparison. And offering a single model in multiple trims (i.e. the clubman, touring, trials versions) was what all the manufacturers did back then. I mean, look at the CB750. How many iterations in 10 years?

And close ratio gearbox to boot. AND an Amal GP carb which had no idle circuit whatsoever.
You can say that as often as you like, but it doesn't stop me wanting one any less :laugh: I won't be putting a Concentric on it either :2thumbsup

[Bob]

If you want to know why BSA (and the rest of the British Motorcycle Industry) failed, can I recommend reading

Whatever Happened to the British Motor Cycle Industry? by Bert Hopwood (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1859604277/crossstitchheave)

Bert was there from the start, working at Triumph with Edward Turner. This is a damning read, but worth a look - if nothing else for learning how NOT to run a company! That the British Motorcycle industry went from the 3rd largest dollar earner for the UK to bankrupt is appaling... and Hopwood's book catelogues the mismanagement.

[Bonez]

I mean, look at the CB750. How many iterations in 10 years?

Just the Ks, Fs and As. Along with specials for various gummerment depertments.

Pom management where just too tight to update manufacturing facilities, stuck in a rut they apperently couldn't get out of. Then along came the little yellow men in white coats that had bikes that sold at a reasonable price for most folk and the rest is history.

[martybabe]

I wish them well, I just hope they keep it simple this time and build from there like Triumph.

A bullet proof retro middleweight a bit like your Kawa W650 bearing the Norton Logo, get the older fellas interested and be affordable to Newer riders.

Maybe even borrow a few engines from Mr Yamahonkawsuzi to get bums on Norton seats Ala rotax and BMW.

Oh well whatever, I just hope they walk before they run, leave the Wankel/jet/rocket/18 cylinder bikes till later.

[xwhatsit]

Just the Ks, Fs and As. Along with specials for various gummerment depertments.

Pom management where just too tight to update manufacturing facilities, stuck in a rut they apperently couldn't get out of. Then along came the little yellow men in white coats that had bikes that sold at a reasonable price for most folk and the rest is history.
K, F and A were just different specs of CB750 (normal/touring, sport and automatic). There were several different models of K and F, dunno about A, what a strange concept that transmission was.

I think they should do the reverse of what the Japs did years ago when they put them out of business in the first place -- kidnap a W650 and pull it to bits to work out why it's such a pearler of a motorcycle :shifty:

[Bonez]

K, F and A were just different specs of CB750 (normal/touring, sport and automatic). There were several different models of K and F, dunno about A, what a strange concept that transmission was.:Apart from the original 1968 CB750s(which had sand cast engine casings) and the K bike varied only in year(which the numbers after the K stood for-K1 ment it was manufacture in 1971 which ran to 1978-K8) of manufacture pretty much with improvements(wiring loom connections,carbs,clutch etc IIRC) and a few changes cosmeticly(tank, seat, side covers to go with the times) over the years it was produced. In broard terms there was basicly three models of F-F1/F2/F3. Two models of A-A1 and A2

[xwhatsit]

Apart from the original 1968 CB750s(which had sand cast engine casings) and the K bike varied only in year(which the numbers after the K stood for-K1 ment it was manufacture in 1971 which ran to 1978-K8) of manufacture pretty much with improvements(wiring loom connections,carbs,clutch etc IIRC) and a few changes cosmeticly(tank, seat, side covers to go with the times) over the years it was produced. In broard terms there was basicly three models of F-F1/F2/F3. Two models of A-A1 and A2
There were several DOHC Ks as well. And don't forget those silly C `Custom' models, the SC models too. All in all, still more iterations than a Gold Star -- but I think we've all forgotten what the original point was :laugh:

[trustme]

The Dreer Nortons were certainly a nice looking bike, pity they never got produced, now maybe they will .
With an big tank like my old 74 Interstate & I would be tempted , build an ADV tourer & the Scram might have to go.

[Bonez]

The were certainly a nice looking bike, pity they never got produced, now maybe they will .
With an big tank like my old 74 Interstate & I would be tempted , build an ADV tourer & the Scram might have to go.Nice alright. Didn't they have a or tried to have around 100 or so on pre-order? http://www.nortonmotorcycles.com/

[rudolph]

There first bike there gonna start building is a Norton 16H just the same as the old one:shit:

[Ixion]

Really? They can put me down for one then, I'd love one of those.

[Motu]

Is that the one with the Rotax motor?

[rudolph]

Is that the one with the Rotax motor?

Yer kind of, its a Side valve Rotax moto

[AllanB]

If Kawasaki had made the W650 a W750 (or 900 - oh yeah) and popped 17 inch wheels on it with modern rubber I'd probably have one in the shed.

Old bikes are really just that - old bikes - by today's standards poor handling, brakes, power and vibrate like hell. Sure do look pretty. I'd like a classic bonnie just for once a month Sunday mornings. :niceone:

Poor Norton - let it die gracefully I say - they had their day and should remain a loved classic. Ditto Indian.

[Motu]

Yer kind of, its a Side valve Rotax moto

What's a ''side valve''? Do they use them in 2 strokes?

[xwhatsit]

What's a ''side valve''? Do they use them in 2 strokes?
Nah you're thinking of rotary valves. Side valves are what they fit to the new Aprilias to make pumping your tyres up easier instead of getting the pump fitting wedged in the spokes.

@AllanB: 17" rims? What on earth would you want to fit scooter wheels on? My Super Cub has 17" wheels and it's bloody hard to find a tyre in that oddball size. 19" is what proper bikes have. I've got 18" wheels, but I don't think it'll catch on.

[Shaun]

2007 Norton Rotary Race bike

http://www.realclassic.co.uk/norton06120100.html

[NordieBoy]

What's a ''side valve''? Do they use them in 2 strokes?

Beta (or GasGas - can never remember) are using a side valve 4-stroke in their new trials bike.
They say it reduces the number of parts or something.
They're then going to use the engine in the dirt bike.

[Unit]

My first ever bike was a Norton 850 Commando with a roadster tank and semi-western handle bars. I loved that bike and it served me well in the mid 80s. Then is was a big bike to me, now, well, its just so cute and the rear wheel size is a laugh. But it would go anywhere, and often we would end up off road. Had to carry a gerry can between Greymouth and Westport on a Sunday though. The interstates had a bigger tank.
Anyway, I hope they do the retro re-creation as Triumph have so successfully done, I would have another one in my garage in a heartbeat, simply for those Sunday afternoon pootles, that would be way cool.

[rudolph]

What's a ''side valve''? Do they use them in 2 strokes?

What says the man with a S.V. BSA M20 in his aviator:eek:

[trustme]

http://www.cycleworld.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=425

This is what they need to make, the rotary is a bit too out there , we don't need more ubber sport bikes
Light, simple parallel twin, maybe 270 crank, follow the classic Commando lines, ie a lighter more powerful better handling version of new Bonnie, with performance more like an air cooled Ducati Monster.
Do another version geared more for all road touring, a simplified version of the new BMW 850GS,make it simple, reliable & bullet proof . A bike that sits in between the DR's KLR's & the big heavy ADV bikes
I reckon they would sell well

[raftn]

I might have to etend the garage.............mmmmm.........

[wharfy]

What's a ''side valve''? Do they use them in 2 strokes?

To us oldies a "side valve" motor ( also known as a "flathead" ) has the valves located NEXT to the piston(s) the head has a combustion chamber shaped to enclose the cylinder and the valves. Think Briggs & Stratton 4 stroke lawn mower.

Simple, reliable easy to service - fuck all power. :)

[Ixion]

And there you have your answer, young fellow. Don't be shy of asking, it's the only way that youngsters like you will improve your knowledge of engines, eh. For your next research project, you can see if you can find an oldster who can tell you about inlet over exhaust.

[Motu]

Beta (or GasGas - can never remember) are using a side valve 4-stroke in their new trials bike.


Like this one?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=66797

I wonder how they will approach it? They might not have to do what Triumph did and make ''normal'' bikes for several years before gradually bringing in a more nostalgic look.

The nostalgia market is a dwindling prospect as us baby boomers reluctantly move to the cruiser sector - and the young market weren't even born when the Commando was dead and buried.However, MV and Benelli were able to be reborn with their potential market being ignorant of their glorious past....just something they read in a magazine.Very few would have been as lucky as me and actually ridden an MV Agusta or Benelli ...let alone been able to buy one.

I'd like to see an ultra high tech single cylinder sportsbike (NOT a Rotax!!!!!) and a big bore muscle parallel twin such as already had 90% of development done.

[Subike]

And there you have your answer, young fellow. Don't be shy of asking, it's the only way that youngsters like you will improve your knowledge of engines, eh. For your next research project, you can see if you can find an oldster who can tell you about inlet over exhaust.

are you talking about that quaint odd English F head motor used in the Rover 75's?
A lovely big SU side draft carb and a thirst that would equal a rugby teams night on the Tui"s

[Subike]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=94930&d=1210065968

I guess this would be the retro they could start with












The bike stupid!

[doc]

Old bikes are really just that - old bikes - by today's standards poor handling, brakes, power and vibrate like hell. Sure do look pretty. I'd like a classic bonnie just for once a month Sunday mornings. :niceone:
Poor Norton - let it die gracefully I say - they had their day and should remain a loved classic. Ditto Indian.

:gob: You heathen :bash: :shit: