Finances in marriage meltdown

[Bytor]

I see that there has been a few topics on here regarding marriage/relationship problems that have made interesting reading. Without going into detail, my marriage is apparently over and my wife has asked me to leave. We have three small children who are my main concern, however I have a question regarding finance. If I leave do I have to pay all the mortgage on our house? We have a joint mortgage, I work full time, my wife works part-time one day a week so doesn't earn very much. As it's a joint mortgage would I have to pay half of the weekly amount or the full amount as she is not earning enough? Just trying to do some figures and it looks like I'll be screwed if I have to pay the full amount. Also what about bills on the house, rates, power, water, phone or will that be her responsibility?

Thanks

[Dooly]

Fuck that, tell her to leave.:shit:

[Jantar]

I see that there has been a few topics on here regarding marriage/relationship problems that have made interesting reading. Without going into detail, my marriage is apparently over and my wife has asked me to leave. We have three small children who are my main concern, however I have a question regarding finance. If I leave do I have to pay all the mortgage on our house? We have a joint mortgage, I work full time, my wife works part-time one day a week so doesn't earn very much. As it's a joint mortgage would I have to pay half of the weekly amount or the full amount as she is not earning enough? Just trying to do some figures and it looks like I'll be screwed if I have to pay the full amount. Also what about bills on the house, rates, power, water, phone or will that be her responsibility?

Thanks

I struck this very thing when I split from my first wife. The family court judge ruled that as she was still living in the house that she had to pay the mortgage, rates, insurance etc. She received an accomadation top up to the DPB to assist with that.

As it turned out we would have both been better off if we had both moved out, sold the house and split the proceeds.

[CookMySock]

Neither partner can legally tell the other to leave.

Steve

[Scouse]

I see that there has been a few topics on here regarding marriage/relationship problems that have made interesting reading. Without going into detail, my marriage is apparently over and my wife has asked me to leave. We have three small children who are my main concern, however I have a question regarding finance. If I leave do I have to pay all the mortgage on our house? We have a joint mortgage, I work full time, my wife works part-time one day a week so doesn't earn very much. As it's a joint mortgage would I have to pay half of the weekly amount or the full amount as she is not earning enough? Just trying to do some figures and it looks like I'll be screwed if I have to pay the full amount. Also what about bills on the house, rates, power, water, phone or will that be her responsibility?

ThanksJust say "NO YOU FUCKIN LEAVE"

[FROSTY]

Mate --Um I just typed a bloody big long bit of advise about the financial and emotional reality of your situation and what I feel you should do.
Instead if you want to feel free to call me -um been there done that .
call me if you want --8375005 or 0210354615

Oh and mate --make fucken sure your kids know you love em and that it isn't their fault. Give em all a bloody big hug

[kevfromcoro]

Fuck that, tell her to leave.:shit:
as he said...once you are you are out.....
should know the answer to this..but not sure,................
done it that many times .i have worn a track down the aisle

[Headbanger]

Sell the house and split the proceeds.

If she don't want to leave, yet she cant afford to buy it herself, tough shit.

[**R1**]

Kill the bitch and hide the body, claim her life insurance to pay the mortgage and claim dpb to stay home and enjoy your new house with your kids....wish thats wot I had done:2guns:

[portokiwi]

I was overseas when we broke up. She got everything.
Was a very hard few years.
Everything good now. (sort off)
Best of luck mate.
it isnt easy and it gets worse.
Just lucky i found a great lady:love: To help me get through the worse parts.

[jrandom]

Been there, done that. As the other guys have said, feel free to PM (or call) for a chat.

Aside from that, my only real advice is:

Engage the services of a good solicitor.

Immediately.

And, trust me: It might be hard to fathom at this moment, but in due course, you will be happier than you have been in years. This is a positive step.

[Maha]

Kill the bitch and hide the body, claim her life insurance to pay the mortgage and claim dpb to stay home and enjoy your new hose with your kids....wish thats wot I had done:2guns:

You bought a new hose with the payout??.....:eek:

[Highlander]

You bought a new hose with the payout??.....:eek:

It was all he had left after being taken to the cleaners.

[Maha]

It was all he had left after being taken to the cleaners.

Can happen.....my 1st marriage ended a bit like that....she even took the clothes pegs....:laugh:

But I had the last laugh....I bought some more..

[FJRider]

My only real advice is:

Engage the services of a good solicitor.

Immediately.

And, trust me: It might be hard to fathom at this moment, but in due course, you will be happier than you have been in years. This is a positive step.

Probably the best advice you could get ...on this site anyway...

[martybabe]

Darn right, Get legal advice before you walk mate. There may be consequences to exiting the House first, there are in some countries. Check!

BTW, sorry to hear about your current situation, It's never easy mate, kids first.

[Maha]

Been there, done that. As the other guys have said, feel free to PM (or call) for a chat.

Aside from that, my only real advice is:

Engage the services of a good solicitor.

Immediately.

And, trust me: It might be hard to fathom at this moment, but in due course, you will be happier than you have been in years. This is a positive step.

At over $260 per hour??? :confused:
If a Property Agreement has not already been sign between the two parties then split up amicably is the better option, better for all concerned.
Husband/Wife and children..why line a 3rd parties pocket...?

[FJRider]

At over $260 per hour??? :confused:
If a Property Agreement has not already been sign between the two parties then split up amicably is the better option, better for all concerned.
Husband/Wife and children..why line a 3rd parties pocket...?

It will be mony well spent...

[_Gina_]

Whoever choses to stay in the property is liable to pay a market based rent, then, once this amount is deducted from the cost of 'ownership' of the property, you are both liable to cover half the remaining cost each.

If in doubt, contact a Lawyer, although this decision is obviously going to be driven by the level of equity that you will realise from the proceeds of selling the property...

[Subike]

Apply for and chase custody of the children
forget everything else! Get a lawyer onto it imediatly!
Your biggest benifit in the long run will be having custody of your kids,
Houses property assets all can be replaced,
your kids can not.
You watch the attitudes change and the pleading begin when you get custody of the kids.
And you dont have to prove that she is a bad mother or any of those things either
14 years as a solo dad taught me one thing, family is better than assets.
Of all the men I know that have gone through seperations, the only ones who have come out on top have been the ones who have their kids custody, this does not mean that you have to keep them with you either, she can still look after them, etc, but if you have the legal custody YOU are the person who makes the major desisions.
You dont want to spend the next 15 years paying child support for them, it will cripple you.
If you dont, and she goes into another relationship, you watch your kids be turned against you, your rights will be slowly erroded untill you are just a memory to the kids and not a dad.
And you have to pay the bills for the kids no mater what happens !

[jrandom]

split up amicably is the better option

He may be prepared to be amicable, but I bet the bitch ain't.

Legal advice ftw.

[FROSTY]

The difference between a soliciter and a blood sucking leech??
-oops sorry oxymoron

[martybabe]

Apply for and chase custody of the children
forget everything else! Get a lawyer onto it immediately!
Your biggest benefit in the long run will be having custody of your kids,
Houses property assets all can be replaced,
your kids can not.
You watch the attitudes change and the pleading begin when you get custody of the kids.
And you don't have to prove that she is a bad mother or any of those things either
14 years as a solo dad taught me one thing, family is better than assets.
Of all the men I know that have gone through separations, the only ones who have come out on top have been the ones who have their kids custody, this does not mean that you have to keep them with you either, she can still look after them, etc, but if you have the legal custody YOU are the person who makes the major decisions.
You don't want to spend the next 15 years paying child support for them, it will cripple you.
If you don't, and she goes into another relationship, you watch your kids be turned against you, your rights will be slowly eroded until you are just a memory to the kids and not a dad.
And you have to pay the bills for the kids no mater what happens !


As I said , kids first, I fought a long, expensive and nasty battle for my munchkins....And won, quite rare in the UK and I'm bloody glad I did. Good luck mate, Obviously many on here can empathise with your plight.

[Maha]

It will be mony well spent...


Sure....I agree with that. But only when the situation is dire.
If its a case of...''we dont love each other anymore'' then it shouldn't get any tougher on either party than it already is. Yes, get advice...(but not from Kiwibiker, we only go on our own story's) No one has actually answered his question fully, just given their opinion (yes even me)

[sinfull]

Just tell her ya aint leaving unless she can come up with the refinance !

Best case / she fucks off and leaves the kids

2nd choice/ fucks off

next best/ she pays you out with a sizable profit which you put away to pay maintanance for a few years

Worst case/ you leave, she dont pay sfa, bank chases ya, mortgagee sale, you still owe the bank, ird takes ya for 20 % of what ya earnt in the last year, lawyer takes 20% more, and she poisons the kids against ya !

Here have a razor blade in case !

[Naki Rat]

The difference between a soliciter and a blood sucking leech??
-oops sorry oxymoron

But better to deal with her blood sucking leech using your blood sucking leech !

[FROSTY]

But better to deal with her blood sucking leech using your blood sucking leech !
sorry mate um being serious here for a mo. I disagre with charging into the solicitors office right away.
A relationship thats gone off the rails might end up being a communication problem etc--something that might be fixable with help.
Hey maybee not too
But once the solicitors get involved it quickly turns friggin ugly

My ex and I broke up REALLY amicably.Every time a lawyer got involved they tried to throw some shit in to get her or my back up.
At one point WE both stood in her lawyers office saying-WTF is this shit you put in our Mat prop orders. Got them to redraft em on the spot

[skidMark]

When are they going to make it legal to marry a motorcycle, stuff marrying a women.

nor a man (yeah i just shut down the obvious own, deal with it)

[Maha]

sorry mate um being serious here for a mo. I disagre with charging into the solicitors office right away.
A relationship thats gone off the rails might end up being a communication problem etc--something that might be fixable with help.
Hey maybee not too
But once the solicitors get involved it quickly turns friggin ugly

My ex and I broke up REALLY amicably.Every time a lawyer got involved they tried to throw some shit in to get her or my back up.
At one point WE both stood in her lawyers office saying-WTF is this shit you put in our Mat prop orders. Got them to redraft em on the spot

Finally, someone on the same side of the road as me.
Its over to the Husband/wife what they want to do re Lawyers. If one gets one then the other has to as well. What a fucken mess then.
OP has not asked about the Lawyer thing, but the thread quickley turned all American.

[MyGSXF]

Sorry to hear about your separation! never an easy time :no:

Your wife will be able to apply for the DPB at WINZ. The money she will get should render her fairly self sufficient, as long as she sets up a good budget from the start! The weekly bills.. power, water, phone etc will be her responsibility. (A joint mortgage, I do not know about) The child support you will pay will unfortunately not go to her & the kids.. it gets swallowed up in the "systems" coffers! if she is on the DPB then you cannot make "private arrangements" it has to go through IRD! On the DPB, she will be able to get some assistance with childcare (how old are the kids?). If she wants to keep working part time, be aware that any income will affect her benefit/supplements eg: accommodation supplement. & her work pay will also be secondary taxed!! It is VERY hard work being a solo parent!! Being a parent is a full time job in itself.. being a SOLO parent is like having 2 jobs consecutively!!!! :eek5: No matter what happens between you & her, the best interests of the kids must always come first! :niceone:


I suggest that you seek legal advise asap (there should be a free legal service in your local "community house" that should be able to answer some early on questions.

This time will be a rollercoaster ride for you all, so please be gentle on yourselves, assure the kids its not their fault in any way & that you both still love them! Have them to be/stay with you as much as you can. & don't do/say/sign anything in the heat of the moment!! get a lawyer to look over everything!

All the best laid intentions to stay "amicable".. can go astray very easily! So if you can get a "parenting agreement" made up early on, can help in the long run. You can apply for 6 free counseling sessions at the family court, which I would encourage you to do, which may be able to help you to both sort some things out, without having to go down the "court" road.. coz it's NOT pleasant! :(

All the best

[FJRider]

Sure....I agree with that. But only when the situation is dire.
If its a case of...''we dont love each other anymore'' then it shouldn't get any tougher on either party than it already is. Yes, get advice...(but not from Kiwibiker, we only go on our own story's) No one has actually answered his question fully, just given their opinion (yes even me)


Things get DIRE real quick ... when you amically agree to things. Then she gets a Lawyer...when a "friend" tells her she could/should get more... then you get to pay more than legally required...because YOU AGREED...

[alanzs]

To repeat what has already been said before: Talk to the best lawyer you can afford before you do anything. It cannot hurt to know your rights, it can only help.

When I contemplated getting divorced, the first thing I did was talk to a lawyer to find out what my rights were. We ended up divorcing without using a lawyer, but only because I knew my rights and SHE KNEW I KNEW THEM as well. Popped her little fantasy of keeping the kids, the house and me paying her forever. Best $200 I ever spent.
Hang in there and try to think LOOOOONNNNNGGGGG term, as you have kids.

[slofox]

When we split we sold everything and split the proceeds - which was the very easy way to go. But then the kids were up and gone by that time and the split was reasonably amicable....mostly...Because we agreed on everything, there was very little money lost - we applied for a divorce, after the required period apart, via the family court. Cost a couple hundred dollars (can't remember exactly) but was wayyyyy cheaper than using the legal eagles. They will suck out as much juice as they can get. Better to arrange it yourselves if you can be civil enough to each other to wade through it. Best of luck anyway - it is not the easiest of times.....

[sinfull]

I honestly hope it goes as smoothly as when my wife told me she had enough !
Well told is the wrong word, i got home and her, the kids and everything in the house was gone (except the home brew in the garage) She rang and told me she had left me (hello state the obvious lol) and that she would leave selling the house to me ! Ten minutes later i was on the phone to a real estate, 24 hours after she had left we had a buyer, at 48 hours it was signed and sealed, at 49 hours i was at my mates place getting a bridging loan, 56 hours after she left me i was riding a harley hahaha god she hated that, it was brilliant !

So many of my friends have had the hell bitch fights to have their kids !
Amiacable is always easier but like someone has said, even talking to a lawyer is worth a couple hundy just so you know ya rights !~

[Mom]

I see that there has been a few topics on here regarding marriage/relationship problems that have made interesting reading. Without going into detail, my marriage is apparently over and my wife has asked me to leave. We have three small children who are my main concern, however I have a question regarding finance. If I leave do I have to pay all the mortgage on our house? We have a joint mortgage, I work full time, my wife works part-time one day a week so doesn't earn very much. As it's a joint mortgage would I have to pay half of the weekly amount or the full amount as she is not earning enough? Just trying to do some figures and it looks like I'll be screwed if I have to pay the full amount. Also what about bills on the house, rates, power, water, phone or will that be her responsibility?

Thanks

Hey Bytor, sorry to hear about this, very sad, specially with little children involved. My thoughts are with you as you go through the endless (at least that is how it feels at times) steps in the process of dissolving a marriage. I will respond by PM in detail, but the essence is what ever you pay out to maintain the family home/lifestyle will be factored into any agreement that is made to settle your joint assets.

For now find yourself a safe place to stay, as a priority organise your contact with your children. Use a friend (or someone like me) to liase between you and your wife as to the best way for both of you to have time with them. Somehow rise above any emotions you have regarding the end of your marriage (almost impossible I know) and put your kids feelings first! Kids are the innocents when things like this happen.

Take care of yourself, I hope you have some good mates around to help you through this. Have a Mom hug for good measure :love:

[Naki Rat]

sorry mate um being serious here for a mo. I disagre with charging into the solicitors office right away.

No apology required. I was being serious, to a point. Like many who are putting their opinion in on this thread I have also been there, done that. Fortunately there were no kids involved in my case.

There are a bunch of assumptions going on here regarding whether the relationship is recoverable or toast already. If mediation / councelling is likely to get things back on the rails then that is definitely the way to go for everybody's sake.

But if the relationship is unrecoverable then enlisting the services of a solicitor should be at the top of the to do list. The same advice that is being offered to Bytor here will be almost certainly duplicated by the advice given to his wife by her well meaning advisors, and THAT is how things go pear shaped. Things tend to esculate fast and often a good solicitor can be a moderating influence rather than adding fuel to the fire.

And from advice from my solicitor at the time "the encumbant" (living in the family house) partner goes into the situation with an advantage.

Always sad to hear about a relationship bust-up so best wishes for what will be a bumpy ride for a while. You will however come out of the other end knowing who your real friends are and aren't, and some of each will be unexpected.

[The Stranger]

But better to deal with her blood sucking leech using your blood sucking leech !

Not got any experience with relationship splits (re lawyers) but have dealt with heaps of cases due mostly to commercial construction.

One thing stands out loud and clear.
If ANY party is unreasonable the lawyers get rich.

ANY dispute that can be resolved sans a lawyer will be resolved far cheaper.
And man do lawyers LOVE people with principles - they get fucken rich off of them.

Cost me $45,000.00 in legal fees to resolve a dispute on my house. Cost the others around $200,000.00 in legal fees and compensation all for something they could have resolved on day 1 for $10,000.00 - the catch is they would have had to be prepared to see reason and accept responsibility for their actions. Fat chance of that aye.

[kevfromcoro]

just a thought...got to the citzens advice beuro(cant spell) ......
i got a lawyer for 15 mins for free.....

[Grahameeboy]

I see that there has been a few topics on here regarding marriage/relationship problems that have made interesting reading. Without going into detail, my marriage is apparently over and my wife has asked me to leave. We have three small children who are my main concern, however I have a question regarding finance. If I leave do I have to pay all the mortgage on our house? We have a joint mortgage, I work full time, my wife works part-time one day a week so doesn't earn very much. As it's a joint mortgage would I have to pay half of the weekly amount or the full amount as she is not earning enough? Just trying to do some figures and it looks like I'll be screwed if I have to pay the full amount. Also what about bills on the house, rates, power, water, phone or will that be her responsibility?

Thanks

My ex had an affair and told me to leave..6 weeks I slept on sofa and she left...

You have to think with 3 kids how are you going to have a big enough place to look after you kid when you have custody....another issue...tell her to go to her Mums..she wants out she goes out...simple...sounds harsh but this is only the start and you get no favours for being nice when marriages break up..I was nice just bloody stubborn

[Winston001]

Ok I do know what I'm talking about. Firstly, its good to see so many people offering advice and sympathy. We probably disagree with each other on some points but every relationship is different and the personal stuff varies.

Even decent ordinary people separate. Not everyone is a bitch or a bastard. Track your own course in this, lots of separations are amicable once the sadness softens.


Whoever choses to stay in the property is liable to pay a market based rent, then, once this amount is deducted from the cost of 'ownership' of the property, you are both liable to cover half the remaining cost each.


Good post. Notional rent (which is the term for what Gina refers to) is the fairest way to sort out the mortgage, rates, insurance, and house maintenance.

Just FYI however, the law is unclear on this point. There isn't a hard and fast rule written down anywhere. Different judges have ruled the occupier pays everything, or the parties split equally, or notional rent as above. That means different lawyers will take differing views = arguments.

[Bikernereid]

Make you keep records of all conversations and as much as possible, also keep emails etc as you may find they come in very handy if things get nasty which they can do.

If you haven't done anything to ruin the marriage wjhy the hell should you leave you are not splitting the family she is so she should move out. I do not know the laws in NZ but have seem a mother leave the family home as the dad refused to leave - mother didn't want kids but wanted the house (mother having an affiar with her boss)!! If you want the kids fight for them! !


For sure MAKE SURE YOUR KIDS KNOW IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT AND THAT YOU BOTH STILL LOVE THEM- will help to mitigate any psych issue they may have later.

Get a good lawyer but make sure they don't drag things out of you may get doubly screwed!!

[Winston001]

I don't know your situation but strongly recommend counselling. You get three free sessions as a couple, paid for by the Justice Department. That can be extended to six.

If you have been asked to leave it might be because your wife feels she has reached the end of her tether. She thinks some space is needed between you. Women take a long time to reach this point so you may have to do a lot of listening to let her get things off her chest.

Maybe its too late - but unless you also want to separate, you should try to heal this situation. We guys aren't good at expressing emotion and communicating - which is why counselling is valuable.

I suggest you talk to one or two good friends/family. This is a tough time and guys tend to bottle it up, be staunch. No good. Find someone who will listen, not someone who will call your wife names and suggest revenge.

And never stop loving your kids.

[Winston001]

Unless the tension is too high and hurting the children, try staying in the house for a while. It's your home as well, you don't have to leave.

Talk to your wife - which probably means listening to her. It doesn't mean what she says is right - but if she thinks you are listening, maybe that will open doors for both of you.

[1 Free Man]

Aside from that, my only real advice is:

Engage the services of a good solicitor.

Immediately.

And, trust me: It might be hard to fathom at this moment, but in due course, you will be happier than you have been in years. This is a positive step.
OMG I find myself having to agree with mister random.
I got the realestate people in myself and got the house on the market.
Fortunately for me the kids had all left home. The house was freehold and there was, for me, no going back.
The shitstorm will clear and, as mister random has said you will be happier than you have been for years.

[kevfromcoro]

BTW ...the hotel calafornia is open 24/7 (KB).....Feal free to pm any of us
Or pop a post in the forum....
good luck
KEV

[jrandom]

counselling... your wife feels... space is needed... you should try to heal... Find someone who will listen, not someone who will call your wife names and suggest revenge.

Seriously, man, what the fuck? Stop clouding the issue.

We all go through that 'try to heal' bollocks at first, but it's important to realise that it's just a part of the process of realising the truth - you're well rid of the bitch.

:2thumbsup

(Not to mention that there are many more fish in the sea - way hey hey!)


try staying in the house for a while

Oh, Jesus H. Christ. What are you on about, man?

Get the fuck outta Dodge. Mate's couch. Beer in the fridge. Freedom. Peace.


And never stop loving your kids.

Finally some good advice. And never underestimate how smart the young 'uns are - even preschoolers can smell a rat at fifty paces, and if you play fair by them, they'll play fair by you. Don't despair, and don't hesitate to 'go legal' in the Family Court if the bitch tries to keep them away from you.

Kia kaha!

And, like kevfromcoro just said, feel free to PM any of us, any time, if support or a chat might help.

[Chickadee]

Really gutted for you guys, you know where we are if you want an ear or a bed away to chew over things. Sent ya a pm with our contact details.

Bigs hugs
Christine

[1 Free Man]

I honestly hope it goes as smoothly as when my wife told me she had enough !
Well told is the wrong word, i got home and her, the kids and everything in the house was gone (except the home brew in the garage) She rang and told me she had left me (hello state the obvious lol) and that she would leave selling the house to me ! Ten minutes later i was on the phone to a real estate, 24 hours after she had left we had a buyer, at 48 hours it was signed and sealed, at 49 hours i was at my mates place getting a bridging loan, 56 hours after she left me i was riding a harley hahaha god she hated that, it was brilliant !~
Geezzz man what took you so ferking long.
Didn't muck around did Ya. She was probably pissed at the fact that you got it all done so quick.LOL
Why is it that the motorbike seems to be the final insult to them!!?? same shit for me. My Ex dishwasher hated the fact that I bought a bike and a fourwheel drive and a new house and moved on very quickly without her.

[ynot slow]

Reiterate what everyone says here about the kids,you MUST get through to them it isn't their fault,no matter what anyone says.And to back that up don't tell them their mum is shit or anything bad about her,if she does say shit about you it will bite her on the arse.

Try to sort out amicably,as if she has the kids guess what she will have legal aid in most cases,you (like me) won't if working,so her lawyers can drag it out.

Keep paying the mortgage but change you're bank account,or get you're wages paid into a different one to a joint one,but put money into it to cover the mortgage,ya don't want it to turn to crap.

She might listen to reason until her folks here what you want etc,then lawyers usually appear lol.Don't cut off you're nose to spite you're face,if she can buy you out or vice versa for a reasonable amount do it,no sense in selling a house for $25000 below value/mortgage owing,and owing the bank say $10000 each.

The big thing is try to talk and make a settlement that suits.

And remember you pay for kids till they're 19(and at home),a long time if it happens when kids are 7 or so(like me).Tell the kids you love them,spoil them,took me almost 9 yrs for my oldest to get to being close as we were years ago,but she recognises it now and harbours no ill feelings to both her parents partners.

Best of all speak to a trusted friend if you need to get some shit out of the system,tough it out and the world will seem better.Try to not dwell on the past.

[henry]

Check this link out. If you can't work out a something between yourselves this is what the government will MAKE you pay.

http://www.ird.govt.nz/childsupport/paying-parents/workout-payments/calculation/

If she gets stupid about money just point her at this. You don't have pay any more than this.

If you can work something out, ie she doesn't claim family support, then the IRD wont get involved.

As far as lawyers go, they are a waste of money. Just remember you don't have to do anything that you don't want to and the law ALWAYS favours the kids.

[MyGSXF]

There is a really good FREE course that is available through the Family Court.. & I'm sure Barnardos & Relationship Services offer it as well.. it's called

"Parenting Through Separation"

It runs over 4 (? IIRC) weeks for a couple of hours or so a week. You do not have to attend the same course together. It covers issues around how to still be good parents, whilst going through separation/divorce/new partners etc. Everyone in the room (there were 6 of us on the course I did) is in the same boat one way or another.

There are a couple of dvd's that you can get (also free) which cover the course topics as well.

Having been through this all, twice.. I thoroughly recommend being "pro active".. rather than "reactive". :hug:

[scumdog]

DON'T trust common sense or amicability, emotions rule at this time.

Stick with logic, don't give in out of guilt and most of all keep it low-stress with the kids, it's NEVER their fault.

[Midnight Special]

Well i have a headache just reading all that ! im just starting all the lawyer family court crap now.. my husband took my 6 year old son after calling the armed defenders out to arrest me fun fun came into my home with nothing is trying to take everything includeing my son , oh and my bike dont froget, im not going to play nice at all. and only because he took him while i was being taken to cops is the reason he has him at his parents house and i cant get him shoot him ... god if only !

[Bytor]

Hey thanks for all the feedback, support, PM's and offers of help, they are much appreciated :yes:
My question yesterday was regarding finances if she stayed in the house and I left, however we have talked since and it is clear that if we do split up then the house would have to sold as neither of us could afford it. She agrees that I could not afford mortgage, rent, child support and living expenses on top - oh well at least she's thinking of my well being! Just to clarify, we are not at each others throats, not rowing and the children are being loved by both of us, so it is not at the moment a hostile, unpleasant environment. Our famillies are both in the UK, so we have no immediate support network to fall back on which makes it difficult but also means that she needs me for help with the children.
I will at this early stage be pushing for counselling even if it is to help us through the seperation - she refuses to consider it at the moment saying its a waste of time. She also wants to put the children first which is a good sign but I know what she can be like and she can change direction quicker than a Duc 1098, so I will seek legal advice to avoid going down the whole drawn out court situations - neither of us would want this but I will do anything to protect the children and me if I have to!
This journey started a few months ago and we have tried to reconcile our differences, but whereas I'm still trying she has given up. So for the time being I'm staying put as there is no immediate reason to leave. Hopefully we can work something out and keep things amicable - ha ha I know there are a few you you out there shaking your heads at that bit but hey miracles do happen.

[Maha]

Just to clarify, we are not at each others throats, not rowing and the children are being loved by both of us, so it is not at the moment a hostile, unpleasant environment

Good stuff Bytor, if it can be kept that way then most of what happens over the coming months should be easier for all concerned. I went down this very path in 1999. I am non confrontational by nature and perferred it that way, so did my ex. Some days were hard but if you can keep it on an Adult level then power to ya mate...

[ynot slow]

Sounds promissing,especially the part of family not here,sorry but they can stuff simple settlements up,my ex's did,we had almost reached agreement over the home,but her folks stuck their noses in.Then lawyers,family court hearing,ended settling to end it basically,now my eldest realises what her mum did financially she has a slight disdain to her mum,not that I bagged her mum,my girl just asked how come I didn't take say her bed,furniture etc as she thought I was entitled to half of all things.Told her what sort of wanker would I be to do that to you kids,she said but the tv,video,furniture,fridge,freezer etc you left mum all that,you were able to take half surely,I reiterated you kids would have been the losers,if no tv,didn't need a freezer.

Tell you what though you will be a better man afterwards,will take time to realise it.

[Chickadee]

Hope you guys get counselling as you mentioned, keep on working at getting an amicable settlement (either getting back on track or separating) and nice to hear the kids come first for both of you.

[Robert Timco]

Bytor, per above do it straight away !! call solicitor.... do not leave the house for any extended periods, like oh I will go and stay at my parents house and we can have a break, no. Call Sandi Anderson, she is in Ponsonby, and she is very good, she is who my ex wife used. Get to a pro, straight away, I can assure you, you won't know what it was worth until it's all gone. You are in the drivers seat as you have the income, block any access she has to your accounts. Fair is fair, but not where you are going now, it's ugly it's sad and it is expensive, so cover your ass etts. Canada (EX NZ) Rob
ps.. a good solicitor in Milford on the main street off Shakespere road think it's Mcqade ?? across from Milford Mall .

[jrandom]

Hopefully we can work something out and keep things amicable - ha ha I know there are a few you you out there shaking your heads at that bit but hey miracles do happen.

Well, good luck with that.

Just bear in mind that the oh-so-very-stable woman you're still hanging around with can turn your life into an instant hell with a single phone call and false accusation made to the Police.

Are you that positive that you will never get upset and say something which pisses her off enough to do it?

The only safe and logical route for you right now is to get the hell outta there, and get the help of a lawyer to draw up paperwork that clearly lays out the material and financial position for the separation.

You're playing with fire if you do anything else. Good luck, once again, but it seems to me to be a very dangerous route to take.

[Maha]

This journey started a few months ago and we have tried to reconcile our differences, but whereas I'm still trying she has given up. So for the time being I'm staying put as there is no immediate reason to leave. Hopefully we can work something out and keep things amicable - ha ha I know there are a few you you out there shaking your heads at that bit but hey miracles do happen.

The first sentence has substance.
It reminds me of freind I had in Rotorua....he and his wife were having trouble, He left for a short while, then went back for 12 months to give the marriage another try....he said to me after that 12 months '' what a waste of a year of my life''....

No im not saying this will be the outcome of your marriage, but if your wife has given up? mmmmmmmm its over dude!!!
Start thinking about your future and how you can best deal with the pending situation.

[FJRider]

Hope you guys get counselling as you mentioned, keep on working at getting an amicable settlement (either getting back on track or separating) and nice to hear the kids come first for both of you.

There are quite a few organisations that provide councilling FREE... and you dont always have to do it together. Or even the same counciller. Both need to be aware comprimises may be needed by both...
Citizens Advice Centres are in most areas in the country... ask them who and where to contact those that may be able to help. As already mentioned, FREE legal advice is often available there too...

[jrandom]

keep on working at getting an amicable settlement (either getting back on track...

Dear God, why? Why do people think that relationships must be saved? Newsflash: It's already failed. There are many other fish in the sea, and the quicker he gets out and cleans up the mess, the quicker he can get on with his life.

Living with the corpse of a marriage and kidding oneself that it isn't rotting and stinking has never done anybody any good.

Even if the relationship can be 'patched up' and resurrected in some form, he'll never be as happy in the end as he will if he makes a clean break now and moves on.

[jrandom]

he said to me after that 12 months '' what a waste of a year of my life''....

No im not saying this will be the outcome of your marriage, but if your wife has given up? mmmmmmmm its over dude!!!

Wise words bro.

[Maha]

Living with the corpse of a marriage and kidding oneself that it isn't rotting and stinking has never done anybody any good.

Even if the relationship can be 'patched up' and resurrected in some form, he'll never be as happy in the end as he will if he makes a clean break now and moves on.

Yes!!!! agreed.

[Maha]

This thread now needs sound!!
Noticed Bytors avatar.


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[DMNTD]

...but surely these are required


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[Leong]

Best of luck with whatever you decide Bytor...

[MyGSXF]

Our families are both in the UK, so we have no immediate support network to fall back on which makes it difficult but also means that she needs me for help with the children.

Check out the phone book for your local "Womens House/Centre" (ring Citizens Advice Bureau). They offer all sorts of courses & craft mornings, drop in cuppas, etc, which will help her form a network of friends. The Women's Refuge can also offer support (it's not just a place for battered wives!!). Barnardos are also a great place for support. It will be very important for her to establish a network if she is going to end up on her own with 3 young kids! Check out your local preschool about the new 20 hours (?) free scheme, for childcare. It will also be very important for her to have time out from the kids!!!!


I will at this early stage be pushing for counseling even if it is to help us through the separation - she refuses to consider it at the moment saying its a waste of time. She also wants to put the children first which is a good sign

If she feels then that counseling isn't worth it in terms of you two, but wants to put the children first.. then apply for the 6 free sessions through the family court & use those sessions to work out a plan for the children (for when the separation actually happens) get a parenting plan written up (while things are amicable.. & will hopefully stay that way!!). You don't have to attend all the sessions together. :yes:

[McJim]

Here's hoping you fellas can sort it all out one way or t'other.

Say hi to the missus and children from us.

I know what you mean about the lack of a support network when you move to the other side of the planet too.

All the best from me and my whanau.

[Winston001]

Seriously, man, what the fuck? Stop clouding the issue.

We all go through that 'try to heal' bollocks at first, but it's important to realise that it's just a part of the process of realising the truth - you're well rid of the bitch.

:2thumbsup

(Not to mention that there are many more fish in the sea - way hey hey!)



Oh, Jesus H. Christ. What are you on about, man?

Get the fuck outta Dodge. Mate's couch. Beer in the fridge. Freedom. Peace.



Like I said, I know what I'm talking about. I have dealt with this stuff for 25 years. Calling Bytor's wife a bitch is destructive and completely off the wall. None of us know the personal situation but from Bytor's recent posts, my intuition was correct. Don't inflame things.

Bytor - the reason to see a solicitor is to ask about your rights at law in terms of relationship property, care of the children, access, and child support. You could try the free advice but you are better to find a solicitor you are comfortable with and see where things go.

Reading this thread, you will get the impression that every marriage breakup consists of women who strip men of everything, who are nasty and manipulative. That is wrong but its the guys who have experienced this and still feel anger, who tend to post.

I can tell you that hundreds of couples separate every year without any legal advice at all. The only time a lawyer is involved is when the house is sold or transferred to one of them. Amicable separations are not unusual.

The other thing is that couples do separate and then happily resume their mariage, stronger and better.

I still recommend counselling, even just for yourself. You are having a tough time, especially with family so far away, and a non-judgemental listener is valuable. Keep trying to get your wife to go - counselling isn't about getting back together, its about expressing your pain and confusion, and discussing things like arrangements for the children.

Do you still love each other? You need to talk about that.

[jrandom]

Like I said, I know what I'm talking about.

Mm hmm. I'm sure you do. And my point was that you propose a risky strategy. Relying on the goodwill of a partner who's already stated their intention to get rid of you strikes me as fallaciously woolly-headed thinking.

I'm glad that you at least agree that consulting a solicitor is a good move.

At certain points in one's personal and business affairs, one must put feelings aside and start acting rationally in one's own best interests.

It seems to me that Bytor wants a woman who no longer wants him. He therefore has two choices:

(a) retain his dignity and half of his wealth;

(b) retain very little of either.

Stark, but unfortunately true, and warm fuzzies about potential reconciliation can't change the basic facts of the matter. This woman doesn't want to reconcile - she just wants Bytor out of the way, and statistics says it's probably because she has another fellow lined up.

Like I said, it's not just about the money - what price will you place upon a man's self-respect?

[fire eyes]

Reading this thread, you will get the impression that every marriage breakup consists of women who strip men of everything, who are nasty and manipulative. That is wrong but its the guys who have experienced this and still feel anger, who tend to post.

I can tell you that hundreds of couples separate every year without any legal advice at all. The only time a lawyer is involved is when the house is sold or transferred to one of them. Amicable separations are not unusual.

The other thing is that couples do separate and then happily resume their mariage, stronger and better.

I still recommend counselling, even just for yourself. You are having a tough time, especially with family so far away, and a non-judgemental listener is valuable. Keep trying to get your wife to go - counselling isn't about getting back together, its about expressing your pain and confusion, and discussing things like arrangements for the children.

Do you still love each other? You need to talk about that.

Awesome advice :Punk:

[jrandom]

Awesome advice :Punk:

The hearts and flowers behind it is lovely, the substance of it is not.

Bytor should immediately physically distance himself from this woman, and get all financial and child-custody matters agreed upon in writing. Naturally he'll want to minimise the legal fees associated with that, but it's always a good idea to have a lawyer cast a professionally-jaundiced eye over anything before one commits to it.

After that's been done, and everyone is in the clear, certainly there's nothing wrong with attempts to re-approach the relationship in good faith.

Sentimental blindness to the reality of the situation, however, will benefit nobody.

[helenoftroy]

Reading this thread, you will get the impression that every marriage breakup consists of women who strip men of everything, who are nasty and manipulative. That is wrong but its the guys who have experienced this and still feel anger, who tend to post.

I can tell you that hundreds of couples separate every year without any legal advice at all. The only time a lawyer is involved is when the house is sold or transferred to one of them. Amicable separations are not unusual.


Winston001 is right I am one of these women

[KiwiRat]

Winston001 is right I am one of these women

Winston can't be right.

He's a man.:hug:

[helenoftroy]

Winston can't be right.

He's a man.:hug:

:rofl:

Very good.....I will refrain from a response:nya:

[KiwiRat]

Thanks mate. It's a serious subject, I know.:love:

[Winston001]

Just a small point which is probably not generally known - the first legal obligation for a lawyer is to promote reconciliation. That is why counselling, talking to each other etc - the "woolly" stuff is still the correct approach.

Family Proceedings Act 1980.

8 Duty of legal advisers to promote reconciliation and conciliation



(1) In all matters in issue between spouses, civil union partners, or de facto partners that are or may become the subject of proceedings under this Act or the Care of Children Act 2004 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1980/0094/latest/link.aspx?search=ts_act_family+proceedings&id=DLM317232#DLM317232), every barrister or solicitor acting for either spouse, civil union partner, or de facto partner shall—

(a) Ensure that the spouse, civil union partner, or de facto partner for whom the barrister or solicitor is acting is aware of the facilities that exist for promoting reconciliation and conciliation; and



(b) Take such further steps as in the opinion of the barrister or solicitor may assist in promoting reconciliation or, if reconciliation is not possible, conciliation.


(2) Every barrister or solicitor who—


(a) Is acting for a spouse, civil union partner, or de facto partner; and



(b) Applies to the Court to have set down for hearing any matter in issue between the spouses, civil union partners, or de facto partners under this Act or the Care of Children Act 2004 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1980/0094/latest/link.aspx?search=ts_act_family+proceedings&id=DLM317232#DLM317232)—

shall certify on the application that he has carried out his responsibilities under subsection (1) (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1980/0094/latest/link.aspx?search=ts_act_family+proceedings&id=DLM40072#DLM40072) of this section.

[jrandom]

every barrister or solicitor acting for...

You're not acting for anybody in this matter, yet, so you are theoretically free to express a less mealy-mouthed opinion, y'know.

:laugh:

Good law, though, that. I wasn't aware of it. Ambulance-chasing 'family lawyers' make me ill. I'm sure I heard some advertisement on the radio for a divorce lawyer a few weeks ago. One imagines that that's treading a very fine line indeed with regards to s8 there.

[puddy]

When are they going to make it legal to marry a motorcycle, stuff marrying a women.

nor a man (yeah i just shut down the obvious own, deal with it)

Having trouble finding a woman that will put up with you? You can 'marry' a man........as long as ya proud!
skidmark
GAY but PROUD!

[Mrs Busa Pete]

[QUOTE=MyGSXF;1774898]If she feels then that counseling isn't worth it in terms of you two, but wants to put the children first.. then apply for the 6 free sessions through the family court & use those sessions to work out a plan for the children (for when the separation actually happens) get a parenting plan written up (while things are amicable.. & will hopefully stay that way!!). You don't have to attend all the sessions together. :yes:



This is exstreamly good advice and well worth looking into.




[QUOTE=jrandom; - she just wants Bytor out of the way, and statistics says it's probably because she has another fellow lined up.





Dan not all Women are like this and just because you had a bad experience you can't judge all women like this.

You are making yourself sound very angry and bitter move on mate.

[jrandom]

Dan not all Women are like this and just because you had a bad experience you can't judge all women like this.

I think you might be reading me wrong, dude. I myself had a somewhat odd but, in the end (phew!) uneventful divorce, and my ex-wife has yet to date anyone else. We're still good friends. I would never advise anyone to take an antagonistic approach to the end of their marriage - just a rational one.

But, yes, look it up, bro. I didn't say 'my experience...', I said 'statistics'.

The unfortunate main chance is that shit is going on behind the scenes that Bytor is either unaware of, or quite understandably chooses not to share with us here.

I feel bound to point out the possibility of a significant mismatch in attitudes. While our KB compatriot here is agonising over how best to handle the situation and whether there is hope of reconciliation, who knows what the woman who's already stated that she'd like him gone is off doing?

He sets himself up for a fall, in my humble opinion, and should look to safeguard his self-esteem as well as his finances.

Excuse my cynicism, but human nature is almost never what we would like it to be.

[McJim]

I've met the family in question and I think this discussion has got a bit sidetracked. Bytor was simply asking about the legal implications of who was liable for what and who would be entitled to what under NZ law and fair enough coz he's from overseas and you have to admit there are a few funny laws over here.:weird:

I don't think it was intended to provide an opportunity to assasinate the character of his missus. :no:

Winston001 has good advice to offer and he seems, in my opinion, to have the most relevant experience to offer this advice.

[SPman]

Is there anyone on this site who hasn't had a marital bust up?? :gob:

[pixc]

Is there anyone on this site who hasn't had a marital bust up?? :gob:

ME ME... :clap: Was with him 15 years...just couldn't bring myself to putting that ring on my finger...thank god!

[Bytor]

I have avoided getting too personal here and revealing details from my marriage. JRandom, there is no mystery man waiting to fill my boots or my missus come to that, we just can't stand each other anymore. I suppose that we have grown apart and now that both of us realise it's too late to do anything about. We have tried, but it's just made things worse. She has agreed to counselling, but to deal with the seperation not the issues that we have - oh well it's something. House will have to go on the market (fuck I might get a new bike out of this:whistle:) and frankly it's over. She doesn't want to try, sticking to her way of life being the only way and thus leaving a 5yr old, 4yr old and 15month old without a full-time father. I must be a real shit!!!

[SixPackBack]

Is there anyone on this site who hasn't had a marital bust up?? :gob:
Yup, I could name a few!

[ManDownUnder]

I have avoided getting too personal here and revealing details from my marriage. JRandom, there is no mystery man waiting to fill my boots or my missus come to that, we just can't stand each other anymore. I suppose that we have grown apart and now that both of us realise it's too late to do anything about. We have tried, but it's just made things worse. She has agreed to counselling, but to deal with the seperation not the issues that we have - oh well it's something. House will have to go on the market (fuck I might get a new bike out of this:whistle:) and frankly it's over. She doesn't want to try, sticking to her way of life being the only way and thus leaving a 5yr old, 4yr old and 15month old without a full-time father. I must be a real shit!!!

hey chap - couple of things. I'm really sad to hear what's going on. I also understand that hurts like fuck... and iit sounds like you have a good conscience in respect of the kids... QDOS to you. Don't heap the blame or the bad reputation on yourself... right now try to treat it as a difference of opinion.

Also - anyone espousing who you, your wife or anyone else involved are or must be doing something... without actually knowing them... probably have an agenda, have been burned and are talking out their arses.

Ignore them. Blanket - outright - ignore them. They don't know - and the more they talk the more they prove it to any one of us without the emotional investment you do. They will probably hit one or two chords with you at the moment ... that's just the emotions you're feeling that they happen to glance off with the venomous outpourings.

I encourage you to use the words "Fuck" and "off".

Re the finance, I'd be listening to the non emotive voices in the thread. Sounds like Winston has a handle on it, that's not to say he's the only one.

Good luck man. Good luck. Look after you and yours. Sounds like you are.

[kevfromcoro]

Is there anyone on this site who hasn't had a marital bust up?? :gob:

well i have had 4 of them.............................
gets easier as you get older.......................

[mstriumph]

Is there anyone on this site who hasn't had a marital bust up?? :gob:


seems not :no:
wonder whether there's any point in even trying what with the failure rate an all .........................

[Chickadee]

I have avoided getting too personal here and revealing details from my marriage. JRandom, there is no mystery man waiting to fill my boots or my missus come to that, we just can't stand each other anymore. I suppose that we have grown apart and now that both of us realise it's too late to do anything about. We have tried, but it's just made things worse. She has agreed to counselling, but to deal with the seperation not the issues that we have - oh well it's something. House will have to go on the market (fuck I might get a new bike out of this:whistle:) and frankly it's over. She doesn't want to try, sticking to her way of life being the only way and thus leaving a 5yr old, 4yr old and 15month old without a full-time father. I must be a real shit!!!

Bytor having met you and your family I can say you're not a real shit, things obviously just aren't working out for either of you and she obviously feels it's time to call it a day (no point flogging a dead horse). Hope counselling to manage through and getting things sorted goes well. You're a great guy, and the fact you care so much for your kids means you'll always be a great Dad. It's better to have two parent's divourced/separated putting their kids first than having a hostile environment for parents and kids to exist in. Good luck with selling the house and sorting out parenting the kids.

Best wishes and hugs! Shame we're not around the block anymore for a cuppa, wish we could do more than PMs! I

[jrandom]

She doesn't want to try, sticking to her way of life being the only way and thus leaving a 5yr old, 4yr old and 15month old without a full-time father. I must be a real shit!!!

A real shit? Nonsense. Don't let it get to you. Anyway, even if you are, a little bit, it beats the hell out of being a doormat.

;)

You'll be right as rain in a couple of years, and no kids were ever done any good by being stuck in a house with two parents who hated each other's guts. They'll be fine.

Regarding the indignant railing from various corners against my cynical comments about how these situations often go, I note that the need to see life through rose-coloured lenses, for... whatever reason, can sometimes be just as powerful as the disillusionment that results from unpleasant experiences.

Just a thought.

:sherlock:

However, if your situation is relatively sane and civilised, Bytor, I'm pleased for you.

[Mom]

I probably had the least amicable end to my marraige possible. My ex lost the plot in a big way and things were really grim for all of us for a year or so until he steadied a bit. We all took advantage of court ordered counselling in an attempt to understand what was happening.

I was very concerned for the childrens emotional health, some of the things they heard and saw at Dads place were not good at all! I was reassured by the psychologist they were seeing that as long as one parent remained level in the breakup the kids would be fine. She reassured me that in fact the greatest emotional damage done to kids is when their parents remain together attempting to keep things going.


My kids are older now, they were 14, 12 and 9 when we split nearly 8 years ago, I can talk to them as adults now. We have had some really cool conversations on their recall of those times (not that we do that very often, we have all moved on) they all agree that the best thing that could have happened was for the marraige to end, they remember the shit that went down at the time, but the things that really stick in their minds were the things at home that led up to the end.

No point in prolonging the enevitable for anyone. There is no good time in a childs life for it to happen. If it is over, end it.

[jrandom]

Winston001 has good advice to offer and he seems, in my opinion, to have the most relevant experience to offer this advice.

Don't be silly, dude! As he himself pointed out, he's just a lawyer following a prescribed script, which he gets into trouble if he deviates from. Solicitors are not professional counsellors (in the sense that we're talking about here). With all due respect to Winston001, his experience relates to the law, not to the human psyche.

I direct your attention to the comments Mom records above from her psychologist at the time of her divorce.


wonder whether there's any point in even trying...

Of course there is!

50% of marriages may fail, but that still leaves the 50% that succeed.

Plenty of research has shown that married people are, on average, healthier and happier.

I, for one, have no intention of growing old alone.

Cynicism and hopelessness are two very different things.

:hug:

[Winston001]

Don't be silly, dude! As he himself pointed out, he's just a lawyer following a prescribed script, which he gets into trouble if he deviates from. Solicitors are not professional counsellors (in the sense that we're talking about here). With all due respect to Winston001, his experience relates to the law, not to the human psyche.

It isn't possible to competently deal with family law issues without learning some aspects of psychology and counselling. It goes with the job.

The mistake people outside a separation make in these situations is thinking it is about money. About power and control. About winning a war. It can feel like that for the couple involved if one of them is out for revenge etc, but ultimately it isn't.

At the heart of the matter, it is about damaged relationships. Couples don't get together to share resources - you might as well go flatting. They have an emotional commitment and when one or both break that commitment, there is a lot of pain involved. Betrayal, loss of face, humiliation, frustration, anger......sadness.

So the key to a successful separation is for each person to retain their own dignity, and respect the other person. Damned hard, nearly impossible where there has been an affair, but it does happen. That is where counselling is invaluable - understanding yourself and the other person.

A home filled with tension is no good for anyone and some time apart at the very least can be wise. But if there is still affection for each other, what's wrong with trying to figure a way through the problems. In this case three young children may be glad of that.

[McJim]

Don't be silly, dude! As he himself pointed out, he's just a lawyer following a prescribed script, which he gets into trouble if he deviates from. Solicitors are not professional counsellors (in the sense that we're talking about here). With all due respect to Winston001, his experience relates to the law, not to the human psyche.

As a human being he has a wealth of experience upon which to draw as well as years of studying law!

I stand by by comments for my own reasons which I have no intention of divulging.:bleh:

Bytor - come and have a holiday down here. Bring the kids - we can put you and your missus up at opposite ends of the house if you like. Get out of Auckland and discover New Zealand - all of you.

[kevfromcoro]

well...............thats it.............
just dropped my one of at the airport,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
thank fuck....................... one way ticket back to thailand.................................
never felt beter in my life......................................

[jrandom]

well...............thats it.............
just dropped my one of at the airport,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
thank fuck....................... one way ticket back to thailand.................................
never felt beter in my life......................................

:lol:

Good lord, man, you go through LBFMs like I go through tasty meat pies.

[stify]

:lol:

Good lord, man, you go through LBFMs like I go through tasty meat pies.

mmmmmm pies.....i like pies:yes::yes:

oh an make sure all lines of credit are well cancelled(this is most important)...and anything ya signed has a note re the date of the financial split....the funniest things come back to remind ya of the past in an expensive an non repayable kinda way!!(an i got the reciepts to prove it)