Getting a newer 250

[Timmay]

I'm selling my 1983 Honda CBX250rs and I need some help with choosing a replacement... Budget is about $5000

I'm selling it because:
I no longer need a commuting bike, just a weekend bike and good weather commuter
I have learnt to ride and want a nicer bike now that I am less likely to bin
I have enough money for a nicer bike

The wish list:
More than one cylinder - thumpers sound great but are a bit rough and they shake the mirrors around so you can't see anything
A windscreen - commuting is fine without one but open road weekender will need a screen.
Naked sports or faired sports but must look good with a screen so probably faired

What I liked about the CBX:
The sound - I assume most bikes will sound alright with a decent pipe though
Having 6 gears
Having a fuel gauge

What I didn't like about the CBX:
The shakes of a single cylinder
The lack of a screen
The upright riding position
the narrow-ish seat

Other 250's I have ridden and what I have thought:
My mates CBR250 - I thought it was very small, nice handling, very quiet - needs a better pipe
My brothers GT250R - Felt a bit too big, felt like it had a high center of gravity, again very quiet, never found neutral, seems to have similar power to my CBX. I often got a sore back and wrists riding this bike too.

What are ZXR's like? are they a bigger bike than the CBR? Thanks to everyone in advance for all suggestions.

[mrchips]

How about a Suzuki GSX250 ?, good value.

http://bikepoint.co.nz/View/Used/SUZUKI-GSX250-K3-2003/22754.aspx?N=4294967251+4294966128+0

[racefactory]

I'm selling my 1983 Honda CBX250rs and I need
The sound - I assume most bikes will sound alright with a decent pipe though

My mates CBR250 - I thought it was very small, nice handling, very quiet - needs a better pipe
My brothers GT250R - again very quiet.



Why the fuck would anyone care about how loud the bike is? To get people to turn heads at ones small cock? Don't worry dude come on this is a bloody 250 were talking about. Get it for the ride dude!

[jrandom]

A windscreen - commuting is fine without one but open road weekender will need a screen.

I dunno, I did quite a few thousand kilometres on my Zeal up and down the countryside, no drama.

You don't need a screen, you just need enough power to punch through the wind without having to lie down over the tank and wring the bike's neck. You don't notice the wind pressure straining any muscles until about 180kph.

Try the new Kawasaki GPX250-that-looks-like-a-Ninja or whatever the model name is now. Mt Eden MC and Spectrum should have demos for you to ride.

We had this discussion already, though... you know what I think you should be looking at (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-181741207.htm)!

[jrandom]

Why the fuck would anyone care about how loud the bike is?

:lol:

If ya gotta ask, you'll never understand.

[CookMySock]

My brothers GT250R - Felt a bit too big, felt like it had a high center of gravity, again very quiet, never found neutral, seems to have similar power to my CBX. I often got a sore back and wrists riding this bike too.These bikes are big. Thats one of the reasons they are well liked.

They do force you to sort your wrists and your posture out, and that is just the way of sport biking. Try a trip on the open road for an hour or six, and hoof it along at 120-130 and get off the seat a bit, and you will see the wrist problem is lot less.


Why the fuck would anyone care about how loud the bike is? To get people to turn heads at ones small cock? Don't worry dude come on this is a bloody 250 were talking about. Get it for the ride dude!Nar the GT250R sounds just great with a loud pipe on it - more like a modern high performance dirtbike. Mean.

Steve

[road king]

how long until you go for your full licence?? i would just hold out however long it is and then get a bigger bike

[jrandom]

These bikes are big. Thats one of the reasons they are well liked.

His brother's had a hobag, so he already knows they're overweight underpowered shit.

One suspects that, in this case, you might have to retreat sadly back under your wet rock without convincing anyone to purchase a rattly Korean pile of cheesemetal and ABS.


hoof it along at 120-130...

You mean, as fast as the machine can possibly go?

:laugh:

[CB ARGH]

All I know is the CBR250RR, they are excellent bikes. Plenty of power for when you may possibly need it, only problem that I have is the power is at 8000+ revs, which means to get up a hill at 59km/h you have to be screaming it in 3rd, well, with my weight anyway (77kg).

I'm 6 foot and don't have a problem with the height of the bike, it's quite small, but you get used to it.

Sounds awesome.

I don't have the balls yet to lean it all the way over though :confused:

[jrandom]

All I know is the CBR250RR, they are excellent bikes.

I think you mean "They were excellent bikes when they were made, 15 years ago, but now, purchasing one and expecting it to run for a year or two without significant intervention is a complete lottery."

[CB ARGH]

I think you mean "They were excellent bikes when they were made, 15 years ago, but now, purchasing one and expecting it to run for a year or two without significant intervention is a complete lottery."

That's when you sell it to some poor bugger down the country and say it got damaged in transit :Punk:

Quite honestly there is no other bike that I can think of that I would rather own in the 250 class.

[Gubb]

Quite honestly there is no other bike that I can think of that I would rather own in the 250 class.

How is that Brain Tumor working out for you?

RS250?
NSR
RGV

[jrandom]

I don't have the balls yet to lean it all the way over though :confused:

www.motott.co.nz

Friday 31 October is sold out, but I draw to your attention the trackday on Saturday 22 November.

Do yourself a favour and be there, eh?

:niceone:

[jrandom]

RS250


Amen, brother!

<img src="http://www.gizmag.com/pictures/2542_04.jpg"/>

[Highlander]

I dunno, I did quite a few thousand kilometres on my Zeal up and down the countryside, no drama.

You don't need a screen, you just need enough power to punch through the wind without having to lie down over the tank and wring the bike's neck. You don't notice the wind pressure straining any muscles until about 180kph.


I agree with Mr Random.
Having done 45,000 mostly open road km on my naked CB 750 clearly enough power to have no problem punching through the wind. I sometimes think a screen would be nice but consider it a luxury rather than necessity.
Certainly I feel it at the end of a 1000Km day but figure that is fatigue in general not just the lack of a screen.

[jrandom]

Certainly I feel it at the end of a 1000Km day but figure that is fatigue in general not just the lack of a screen.

I've always felt that the delicious tiredness one gets after a thousand or so klicks of punting down the highway behind nothing but a shiny round headlight and a proper set of handlebars with a nice smooth breeze flowing past is just part of the joy of motorcycling.

I wouldn't give it up for anything. Naked bikes ftw.

[Highlander]

I've always felt that the delicious tiredness one gets after a thousand or so klicks of punting down the highway behind nothing but a shiny round headlight and a proper set of handlebars with a nice smooth breeze flowing past is just part of the joy of motorcycling.

I wouldn't give it up for anything. Naked bikes ftw.

Tired as you are you have to wait for the glow to start dimming before surrendering to sleep - hopefully you get enough to repeat the exercise the next day.

[Timmay]

Thanks for all the relies so far. One of my mates has one of the ninja's , i might see if i can borrow it for an afternoon. Ithink it is an ex250 or a 250r, is there any differance? No comments yet about the ZXR250.... Might just have to go try one out i guess

So ruling out the screen we have the VTR, Bandit, Zeal, Balius, CB250 for looks the vtr must win but the rest appear to have inline fours which I assume are de-tuned motors from the ZXR, GSX, FZR and CBR?

[jrandom]

So ruling out the screen we have the VTR, Bandit, Zeal, Balius, CB250 for looks the vtr must win but the rest appear to have inline fours which I assume are de-tuned motors from the ZXR, GSX, FZR and CBR?

The CB250's a parallel twin, and much slower than the others you mention.

I advise against getting a decade-plus old 250cc inline four, but if you're prepared to muck about with it a lot to keep it running, your call. It's a gamble.

I still don't quite see why, if you're prepared to have something finickity, you wouldn't get a V-twin two stroke with twice the power, though... om nom nom nom!

:D

[Highlander]

Might be a silly question but why restrict yourself to a 250?

Why not complete your licence (if it is not already a full licence) then spend the same money on a bigger better bike that you are likely to be happy with for longer?

[Ragingrob]

Yeah how long 'till your full?? For $5,000 you could get a sweet 400 or 600.

[Timmay]

I have been commuting for 9 months on my learners so i have at least a year till i can get a bigger bike. Getting my restricted is top of the priorities after exams.

So if decade old is out for reliability issues then both the cbr and zxr are out. Leaving the more modern inline four and twin naked bikes.... post exams will be test ride season.

On a related note why is it that people looking at a bike on tardme send you texts saying they will give you $1000 CASH when the buy now is $1500. Do they think putting cash in capitals makes it more enticing?

[TomJ]

I have ridden my '07 gpx through learners to full and still have it after 3 months on full. I will get a bigger bike when cash allows. having said that the GPX is a great bike to ride with surprising power. I go out on rides with mates including one with a busa and keeping up at 110 cruising is no problem. There are second hand gpx's around which come into your budget. The new bike looks great but is not radically different anyway. good luck with exams and test rides!

[Unit]

Ok so you've answered the 'restricted to 250' question. Dont touch the Bandit, in my opinion. You havent mentioned the Hyosung? Any reason for this? There are a couple of ladies that do our 6 weekly BOP ladies rides on Hyosung 250s, and they do just fine.

[Timmay]

My brother has a hyosung...I find it a bit big, and it has the same sort of power as my CBX.... despite being 22 years older...ummmm...errrrrr

[Ragingrob]

I don't think you have to rule out all 20 year old bikes... A bike's a bike and each one will be in a different condition etc. On KB you see some people with brand new bikes having to consistently get things fixed under warranty, whereas you see others who buy an older bike that never has a problem.

The cbr250rr is slightly bigger than the single r I think, and they're newer (well, less old), just depends how the bike's been treated etc.

[McJim]

Get an RG150 - it's a real little animal. If you're already able to handle a bike it will be a really rewarding ride.

[captain_andrey]

You can have my GT250R :P
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-183130077.htm

[CookMySock]

On KB you see some people with brand new bikes having to consistently get things fixed under warranty, whereas you see others who buy an older bike that never has a problem. I think you exaggerate there. There are sometimes issues with all brand new bikes, and some older bikes are reliable, but I submit that modern bikes overall are much more reliable. Mine certainly is - its' first fault was the vacuum fuel tap, after 15,000km. The fault didnt stop the bike, it just had a tiny drip, and I rode it around for three weeks until I got completely sick of the petrol smell.

Cue the recent example on KB of a brand new BMW! Where the owner has rightfully had a total fucking gutsfull of the damn bike and its irritating and dangerous faults, and is returning it under the consumer gaurantees act. Even this supposedly top-marque bike is not immune.

Steve

[Timmay]

Blasting over the bridge this morning i wound the cbx up to a merry rate of knots and see I JRandom is correct about the screen, in fact i expect that some wind pushing on ones body probably helps to relieve wrist and back stress on longer rides. It is good to have the bike back after a week in the cage. I would still like to hear from some ZXR owners though, are these bigger than a cbr? and now of the naked sports which to go for? zeal, bandit, hornet, vtr?

[vtec]

Hyosungs... slow, low quality, but pretty, don't even try keeping up with real sportsbikes. Very average brakes and suspension.

Honda VTR250, a good allrounder, and no doubt plenty of fun, but not enough power to blast away the boy racer cars, and not pretty enough for my liking. Single front disc.

Honda CBF250 Hornet, another good bike, fast too, cheap to run, reliable, not as pretty as the CBR though, a definite contender. 4 cylinder, good power. Single front disc though?

Two strokes (RS, RGV, NSR)... Unreliable as all heck but fast and fun. In my opinion as someone who is good with tools, I'd still rather be able to ride my bike whenever I want and not have to work on it 50% of the time, and they use as much gas as a small family car. Will cost you more to run than an average car. Good power, good brakes, lightweight and good suspension.

Kawasaki GPX (ninja), fast for a twin, and comfortable riding position, no race bike though and it was designed in the early 80's when bikes were at their ugliest. Total commuter though, waste of time as a weekend blaster.

Suzuki GSX, early 80's designed big heavy slow, but I think they are reliable. Not as good as the GPX.

Now for the real contenders:
All four stroke
All 250 cc
All 6 speed
All have a redline around 19,000rpm.
All have approx 45hp
All weigh about 150-160 kg
All handle great and go fast.
Not all of them are reliable though.
Suzuki GSXR, Yamaha FZR, Kawasaki ZXR, and Honda CBR.

These are the bikes that have been competitive at 250 fourstroke racing here in Victoria Australia. However we can narrow down our comparison a bit. There is a very good reason why you don't see hardly any GSXR's around. They get compression issues. The valves wear out the seats too fast, and you can throw the engine away.

The FZR, so rare, you probably won't find any for sale, and if you do it will be because of issues. And again there is a reason why they are so rare. There's not many left running because of reliability. But the fastest 250 I've seen in the fourstroke 250 class here is an FZR. Lots of mods. Pulls out of about 50% of the races due to issues though :P

The ZXR, second most common quality 250 4 stroke. These bikes are fast fun, bigger than the CBR and handle awesome. The tip over slower than the CBR, but are more stable mid corner, could have something to do with the adjustable suspension. They have known cam chain tensioner issues sometimes, and are renowned for oil leaks.

The CBR 250 RR, from where I'm sitting, possibly the best all round bike ever made. I'm 5 foot 10 and it's comfortable as. No sore wrists like I used to get on the RGV or CBR600. It's got cam gears as opposed to a cam chain, which seems to remove some of the reliability issues that the ZXR gets. It gets close to 20km/l which is good enough (same as all the other 4 cylinder screamers). It's light, and very flickable, I haven't ridden a bike which turns into corners easier, and I've ridden a lot of bikes. It is a lane splitting legend. Awesome brakes. The suspension is a little soft, but that never seemed to bother me even on the race track going for wins. I've couriered on them. So 8 or 9 hours in the saddle with a large pack on my back, and it was still OK. The sitting position is brilliant, more upright than the average sportsbike, still great for racing. And we know they go for over 100,000k's if you know it's been looked after with quality oil. Plus they take crashes extremely well.

There is a very good reason why there are a lot of these around 20 years after they were made. They are still being imported, because they are the best learner restriction bike ever, but they are getting harder and harder to find in Japan, because the market for them in Australia is huge. And they are very reliable. I prefer them to riding 600's around town, and they are the most fun I've ever had on the track aswell.

The single R CBR is not as good handling or braking wise. Don't bother.

[Hitcher]

I put a fly screen on my Zeal. But of course I would. I'm a fat nana.

[Ripperjon]

I'm happy with my bike. Good for commuting. Good enough for me on twisty blats.

[jrandom]

I hear what the CBR250RRRRRRRRR fans are saying, but you're still talking about a 15-year-old 250cc inline four. I'm sure they do last well if serviced carefully, but how on earth will you tell whether it has been?

Like I said, it's a lottery. And the CBR still doesn't even have two-thirds of the power of a derestricted RS250...

My choice, out of the bikes mentioned so far, would be the VTR250. Although they're a bit slow. Still noticeably better than a CBX or a Hyobag, though.

[vtec]

Fair point on the lottery thing JRandom. But if you ride it and it's sweet, chances are it'll be sweet for a long time to come.

With regard to the power difference between the RS and the CBR, on the CBR you've got usable power from 8,000 rpm right up to 19,000rpm, that's well over half of the rev range, and it's pretty much on max power from 12,000rpm to 19,000rpm which is a full one third of the range. The two strokers have a much tighter/peakier power range, which makes it harder to use and you have to change gears a lot more often. Although the RS250 is lighter, and I love light bikes. But the reliability issues and costs put me off.

What are your figures for power for a 250 2 stroke... I thought they were around 55hp, and the fourstrokes were around 45hp...(all measured at the crank). That would put the 4strokes at 4/5ths of the power of the 2 strokes.

[ferriswheel]

Ive got a zeal I only paid $3000 for it
Jap import 1st NZ owner
Good aceleration
My mates have got a GT250R and a honda Xelvis
Kept up with them fine and that was only the 4th time Id ever riden a bike and the are well experenced compared to me

[Timmay]

Why are the zeals so much cheaper than the bandits and hornets? I was passed by both a hornet and a bandit today in Newmarket and they both sounded like sewing machines. I was also passed by a 2 smoke vespa doings its wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee thing, not nice at all.

Do VTRs sound any less like sewing machines? Do the 250 inline fours sound better with aftermarket pipes?

[Hitcher]

Ive got a zeal I only paid $3000 for it
Jap import 1st NZ owner
Good aceleration
My mates have got a GT250R and a honda Xelvis
Kept up with them fine and that was only the 4th time Id ever riden a bike and the are well experenced compared to me

Good choice! And Zeals can be toinged up quite nicely with an appropriately inserted EXUP valve. Apparently.

[Jeaves]

Good choice! And Zeals can be toinged up quite nicely with an appropriately inserted EXUP valve. Apparently.

Common mod in japan to fit the FZR250 exhaust , not sure on performance gain though :blank: . Enjoyed my Zeal , fine performing trouble free machine.

What about ZR250 BaliusII/Suzuki GSX250FX , both are kawasaki's with inline4's built/sold 01-08

[vtec]

One of the guys over here races the ZR250 Balius (Ken, part owner of Victoria Motorcycle Wreckers)... He calls it the Bayliss edition. He's one of the fastest. But he's put ZXR250 cams on it, aftermarket exhaust, and changed the jetting, skimmed the head to increase the compression ratio. And he's had it dynotuned for a ballistic 38-39hp at the rear wheel hahahaha.

The guys who tinker with their bikes too much always seem to have problems though. Fuel blockages or electronic problems seem the most common.

Balius appears to be a great naked bike, a bit detuned compared to the ZXR in stock form, but all in all a great learner bike.

[ferriswheel]

I have a Over Racing Project exhaust on mine and it sounds mint
only taken it to 16 though which is well withen the redline and the FZRs can rev to 20

[Timmay]

The testing begins...

Friday Lunch time I went for a nosey to Mt Eden Motorcycles and Red Baron just to chew the fat and try out some seats:

Verdicts are
Hyosung - Nice big sports bike feel - but i know they are gutless
VTR - feels like I would expect a motard to feel like
Zeal - Skinnier than I expected and quite laid back
ZXR - Bigger than a CBR but still very much a small sport bike
New Ninja - very skinny, very shiny, very expensive

Bandit - good fit between upright and sports crouch, and nice styling to boot...

So today I took a bandit for a test ride - out to Albania and along the Coatesville Riverhead road for a few corners and a bit of open road

Verdict- WOW, what an awesome bike, so different to the CBX in every respect, all the controls feel great and a really nice seating position, loads of power above 10k might be a little less fun commuting or around town though. I could definitely see myself on this bike for long rides though. Only other downside is a brand new - still got centre hairs - Shenko front tyre, what a thrill that gives in a slight lean on a wet corner - arrrrrgggghhhhhhh. I think that would have to be replaced as part of the negotiating price process.

So... I will find a Hornet to sit on and maybe take that and a VTR out for a test ride soon

Now back to studying...

[racefactory]

Fair point on the lottery thing JRandom. But if you ride it and it's sweet, chances are it'll be sweet for a long time to come.

With regard to the power difference between the RS and the CBR, on the CBR you've got usable power from 8,000 rpm right up to 19,000rpm, that's well over half of the rev range, and it's pretty much on max power from 12,000rpm to 19,000rpm which is a full one third of the range. The two strokers have a much tighter/peakier power range, which makes it harder to use and you have to change gears a lot more often. Although the RS250 is lighter, and I love light bikes. But the reliability issues and costs put me off.

What are your figures for power for a 250 2 stroke... I thought they were around 55hp, and the fourstrokes were around 45hp...(all measured at the crank). That would put the 4strokes at 4/5ths of the power of the 2 strokes.

Are you kidding me? They are shitloads faster... 40hp for 4 strokes and 155- 160kg... with a shiteload less torque. take a honda nsr250 that's 60hp and 125kg..... with as much torque as a VFR400... it's miles faster mate.

30kg is a huge difference in weight.... 15 to 20 hp more, and then you've got an absolute boatload more torque from the superior 2 stroke torque curve.

seriously... you can't compare them, the 4 stroke 250's are absolutely gutless in comparison. couldn't believe the first time i hopped on a zxr250....

[vtec]

Just a different power delivery, so the 4 strokes feel less powerful than they are, and the 2 strokes feel more powerful than they are. 55hp at the crank for the 2 strokes... approx 45hp at the wheel... the 4 strokes are 37hp at the wheel or 45 at the crank. Top speed would be about 20kph difference (190kph for 4 stroke 210kph for 2 stroke). Acceleration on the 4 strokes 0-100 in 5.0 seconds on the 2 strokes 4.5 (??TBC) seconds. That is a noticeable difference. But the power difference aren't as big as you are making out. The weight difference is about 25kg. The 2 strokes weigh about 128kg, the 4 strokes weigh about 153kg.

This comparison is for stock standard bikes. Porting the 2 strokes makes a BIG difference.

Just started playing Tourist Trophy on the playstation 2... That game is amazing, and a lot more realistic than I expected. 5/5 for me, the NSR250 is listed as having 41hp at the wheel, the modified race version one has about 45hp at the wheel. The Yamaha TZ250 has 91HP at the wheel. Big difference between race and road ones. I won all the early races up to and including the 1000's and above on the NSR250 in that game :D was kick arse.

Torque doesn't mean all that much when racing, power delivery is far more important, and the 4 strokes have an easier power delivery to take advantage of... It all comes down to energy output per second, which is what power is, and handling, and braking. And you'll find that the torque curve and power curves are far more favourable on the 4strokes, even if they don't have quite the same kick in the pants effect.

2 strokes are definitely faster, but it might surprise you how close the 4 strokes can be. I love chasing 2strokes on the race track. So much fun.

P.s. I want a VFR400 next. Where did you get yours? I think it's the correct step after the CBR250RR, and they are marginally quicker than the 250 2strokes.

For a comparison around Puke on my first ever race day I got 1.15.12 (I know they could do 1.14) on a CBR250RR, the best 400 riders get about 1.07, so that's 8 seconds over an inexperienced rider on a 250 4 stroke, what do the fastest production 250 2 strokes do, I'm guessing 1.10's? So from where I'm standing the 250 2strokes are about as quick in comparison to the 250 4 strokes as the 400 4strokes are in comparison to the 250 2strokes if that makes sense. It's actually pretty damn close.

I'm trying to find out what an RGV 250 or similar will do around pukekohe... Cant' find jack on the internet. Anybody help me?

[wbks]

Well I see you have ridden the ZXR that you wanted to hear about but if you still want info from owners than here you go from me:
-mine has EXTREMELY high km's and I haven't needed to do anything but change oil every 3k as with all bikes and get new chain, replace the cam chain tensioner which was cheap.
-I ring the neck of mine (13,000rpm every shift, some 16,000 around the twistys today at 140+, good for a 250) and it never misses a beat
-Cheaper than the cbr250 by a long shot.
-Has twin front disks for sweet stopping power compared to other bikes its age.
-Don't worry about your weight with it, I'm a real fatty and it still hauls me easily.
-sounds better than all other inline 4 250s IMO. Nice deep sound to high pitched F1 like sound at high revs (like the cbr250 with more balls)
-Bigger than the cbr250 so you can feel comfortable for cruizes, did 300kms today practically non stop before i started to get a cramped leg.