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svp
23rd October 2008, 08:40
Hi Everyone,

This is my first post: I am new to the motorbike seen after gaining my learners license last week.

I am really keen to get stuck in and am currently looking at bikes.

However, I have a bad lower back which will be a big determining factor on which style of bike I go for.

Any light on which style of bike would be best for my back would be most grateful.

Thanks guys


svp

MSTRS
23rd October 2008, 08:45
Sport-Touring style.
Cruisers (upright) put a lot of strain on lower back, and a full Sports style possibly will be tiring with the gretaer lean to reach the bars.
You need to ride a few to really know, remembering that 10 minutes won't be enough to really tell.
Also remember that as a learner you will be tense and tire easily, so long-term it's a lottery as to which bike will be right.
Rest assured there will be one.

GaZBur
23rd October 2008, 08:52
Road/trail type.
If you are a learner what about a 250 trail bike. Not a hard out dirt bike but a road oriented trailbike. Good suspension and a reasonably upright position with bars that support your arms without weighting your sholders and back. Not the best position for 100km plus speeds but good for control and nippy once you get the hang of them.

Ask the bike shop to let you try a couple of styles before you buy, if you explain to them why I am sure they would be reasonable about it.

GaZBur
23rd October 2008, 08:58
I used to get a real sore lower back when touring. In the end I discovered that if you stuff all the soft stuff in one end of your bag and strap it on the passenger seat it acts as a lumber roll, takes the pressure off the lower back and also your arms as you dont need to hang on to counter wind on your chest if you like a reasonablly upright position.

gijoe1313
23rd October 2008, 09:05
Well, a naked bike like a little ol'hornet will be quite ideal, the riding position is very comfortable and will help. You can easily adjust your posture and it is a more relaxed style, in between the sportsbikes and cruisers.

Have a sit on many bikes and your body will tell you which one it prefers pretty quickly! :yes:

Oh yes, the little ol'hornet's seat is very comfortable!

captain_andrey
23rd October 2008, 09:06
Hmm weird, I would have thought a sportier position would put less pressure on the back and more on upper body

Nagash
23rd October 2008, 09:08
For your learner's an upright tourer-sports bike should do the job..

Take a spin on something like a Honda Hornet 250, Bandit 250 or if you can find one a Jade 250. They may do the trick.

I've got a bad lower back due to a fractured spine a few years ago, and I ride a cruiser which I have no issues. But different places of injury would have different effects, cruisers definately put all your weight on your back rather than the sports bikes supporting yourself on your arms.

[EDIT] As GI Joe so whimsically mentioned, Hornet 250 may be the way to go.

MSTRS
23rd October 2008, 09:12
Hmm weird, I would have thought a sportier position would put less pressure on the back and more on upper body

True. The thing with a spine problem is to relieve the strain that an upright position causes without introducing another strain elsewhere.
Lower spine is best relieved by some forward lean. Gets the pressure off the tailbone, and stops the jarring that transfers up a straight spine.

TOTO
23rd October 2008, 09:20
I agree that Hornet 250 is a Good choice (thats why I got one), for your situation tho I would also recommend looking at Suzuki VL250 Intruder (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Cruiser/auction-183166480.htm). Comfy seat, relaxed position and I know for sure they have plenty of balls to keep you entertained during your learners and restricter period. Look good too ;)

Headbanger
23rd October 2008, 09:24
Gees, If I followed the advice in this thread I'd be in a world of pain.

Everyone is different, Your just going to have to try a few bikes, seating positions.Moving your arse backwards of forwards a few inches may make all the difference in the world.

For me, I find I have to be in a position where I can transfer some of my weight to the pegs, and I like (have to be) to be sitting upright in the "cruiser" position otherwise the pain sets in within a few minutes.

MSTRS
23rd October 2008, 09:42
HB, how would you get on with forward controls?

Katman
23rd October 2008, 09:48
You might gain some relief by using a kidney belt as well.

Hitcher
23rd October 2008, 10:03
Bad back? Don't buy a cruiser.

Headbanger
23rd October 2008, 10:22
HB, how would you get on with forward controls?

Very poorly.

MSTRS
23rd October 2008, 10:24
Very poorly.

Exactly. You need to have your feet under you to allow them to take some of the weight that would otherwise be on you lower back/tailbone. So, perhaps the 'right' sort of cruiser might be an option for the OP.

Headbanger
23rd October 2008, 10:25
You might gain some relief by using a kidney belt as well.

In my experience anything longer then an hour in a Kidney belt just transferred the pain up the spine, and long term wearing of one made the initial problem worse. I just use might for half an hour or so of relief then take it off.

Headbanger
23rd October 2008, 10:32
Exactly. You need to have your feet under you to allow them to take some of the weight that would otherwise be on you lower back/tailbone. So, perhaps the 'right' sort of cruiser might be an option for the OP.

Exactly?

I hate to say it but you weren't being exact when you wrote off all cruisers, presumably because some of them have forward controls. I can sit on 50 bikes with a multitude of radically different seating positions and most of them will aggravate my back.

This blanket advice on offer is poor at best. Sorry if that offends but that's the truth. The thread starter needs to sit on a few to find one that suits his preferred position.

MSTRS
23rd October 2008, 10:43
This blanket advice on offer is poor at best.

The OP asked. Every reply, including yours, may help him. What's wrong with that? And blanket advice necessarily consists of generalities, within which there will be exceptions. A 6' biker with a bad back will suit a different bike to someone who has the exact same problem, but is 5'6".

CookMySock
23rd October 2008, 10:47
Sport-Touring style.
Cruisers (upright) put a lot of strain on lower back, and a full Sports style possibly will be tiring with the gretaer lean to reach the bars.I agree. I have a back injury, and my sports tourer has all but fixed my bad back. It has forced me to get more flexible (just ride and it comes right) so I suggest anything that gets your weight forward will be fine. It's going to be a few months of discomfort though, while you get tuned into it.

Also, find out how to click your own back. This has been a great help for me, instead of going to the chiropractor every two weeks.

Steve

Headbanger
23rd October 2008, 10:48
The OP asked. Every reply, including yours, may help him. What's wrong with that?

Two things, when my back is playing up I can be a bit of a bastard, As it is most days:shutup: especially right about now.

Secondly, Telling him to avoid any particular style of bike may steer him away from a bike that could potentially be perfect for his taste and comfort.

Thirdly, I'm on a mission from God. Thus I'm a righteous opinionated bastard.

Hallelujah

vifferman
23rd October 2008, 10:50
The best position for reduced lower back pain is to have the lumbar area of the spine adopting its 'natural' position, with a slight inward curve to it. This requires a seating position in which the pelvis is tilted slightly forwards, not back, as it would be on a cruiser with feet-forward mounted controls and the rider slouching. As others have said, the best bike style for this is one in which the body is fairly upright, and the feet are located approximately under the line of the spine, so the legs can be used to raise your butt from the seat and absorb the shock of bumps and potholes.
I don't know of many if any cruisers that have this sort of posture (although you can, if disciplined, try to correct your posture despite having your legs stretched forward and up, although this will be tiring). Most seem to encourage the rider to slouch, especially when tired, so their spine curves outwards, their pelvis is tilted back (bending the lumbar area the wrong way), and their is little if any chance of absorbing bumps in the road, except maybe by hanging from the bars if they're apehangers.

As Headbanger said, apart from the bike itself, there are other variables that affect comfort, such as where you put your butt on the seat. The seat itself can make a difference (some seats, or the seat-bar-pegs relationship) can lock you into only one position on the seat. Some seats too (like mine) feel very hard yet provide good support, whereas others feel lovely and soft and comfy yet are doing your back no good).
Unfortunately, apart from test-riding bikes, there's little you can do to ascertain whether a given bike is good/bad for your back. You could take someone knowledgeable (a physio or osteopath?) along with you when you sit on bikes, and observe your seated posture. You can also check a given bike to see how many adjustments (if any) are available to the seat, handlebars and pegs to fit it to you.

Don't just take peoples' word for it that their particular bike is "as comfy as". Few people will let on if their bike is a Torture Rack, and unless they're identical to you in stature and have the same back problems, their experience is practically worthless anyway.

Another point is that even a bike with a reasonably good riding position requires that you make some effort to sit properly, and not hang on the 'bars or slouch. You should be sitting with no weight on the bars, and a light grip. The bars are controls, not a means of support. With a sports-tourer, as you have a pronounced forward lean, until you get to sub-light speeds where the air pressure over the windscreen pushing on your chest supports you, you need to take your weight off the handlebars using your thighs (gripping the tank), your abs, and your back muscles. This takes some discipline and practice.

Headbanger
23rd October 2008, 10:52
The best position for reduced lower back pain is to have the lumbar area of the spine adopting its 'natural' position, with a slight inward curve to it. This requires a seating position in which the pelvis is tilted slightly forwards, not back, as it would be on a cruiser with feet-forward mounted controls and the rider slouching. As others have said, the best bike style for this is one in which the body is fairly upright, and the feet are located approximately under the line of the spine, so the legs can be used to raise your butt from the seat and absorb the shock of bumps and potholes.
I don't know of many if any cruisers that have this sort of posture. Most seem to encourage the rider to slouch, especially when tired, so their spine curves outwards, their pelvis is tilted back (bending the lumbar area the wrong way), and their is little if any chance of absorbing bumps in the road, except maybe by hanging from the bars if they're apehangers.

As Headbanger said, apart from the bike itself, there are other variables that affect comfort, such as where you put your butt on the seat. The seat itself can make a difference (some seats, or the seat-bar-pegs relationship) can lock you into only one position on the seat.
Unfortunately, apart from test-riding bikes, there's little you can do to ascertain whether a given bike is good/bad for your back. You could take someone knowledgeable (a physio or osteopath?) along with you when you sit on bikes, and observe your seated posture. You can also check a given bike to see how many adjustments (if any) are available to the seat, handlebars and pegs to fit it to you.

Don't just take peoples' word for it that their particular bike is "as comfy as". Few people will let on if their bike is a Torture Rack, and unless they're identical to you in stature and have the same back problems, their experience is practically worthless anyway.

Fuckin excellent. This should be pasted in every time a sore back thread gets posted.

vifferman
23rd October 2008, 11:05
Fuckin excellent. This should be pasted in every time a sore back thread gets posted.
Dunno 'bout that, but I know about pain while riding (Aaaaaarrrrthritis!! in most places). Also, while being tortured for a few months by a physio (the rapist) who was also a biker, he filled me in on a few things about spines, bikes, etc. He'd actually recommended to several people with bad lower back pain that they ride a bike rather than drive, as it was better for their backs. In a car, you are invariably sitting with your pelvis tilted back (legs forward, knees up), so unless your car seat has good lumbar support, your back's being fucked while you're driving. Furthermore, riding a bike's actually a bit more physical, in that you move around a little, with subtle shifts of your body, albeit usually less movement of your arms.

FWIW, the physio (the rapist) rode a Honda 450 cruiser (can't remember the model), which had the pegs under the seat, and a very upright seating position, so he was practicing what he was preaching. (This replaced some other bikes, like a GSXR1100 and an FJ1200).

svp
23rd October 2008, 11:15
Thank you all for your advice, I really appreciate your help.

I can see already that this forum is going to be an invaluable source of information.

MSTRS
23rd October 2008, 11:23
Thank you all for your advice, I really appreciate your help.

I can see already that this forum is going to be an invaluable source of information.

Invaluable? Wash your mouth out...

vifferman
23rd October 2008, 11:33
Invaluable? Wash your mouth out...
Perhaps he was confused between "invaluable" and "valueless". :confused:

MSTRS
23rd October 2008, 11:36
Is that like 'priceless'?

svp
23rd October 2008, 11:38
Whoops I’m terribly SORRY I am trying to do three things at once!!!!!

I meant to say VALUABLE - Please forgive me!

Thanks again for the great help guys

vifferman
23rd October 2008, 11:43
I meant to say VALUABLE - Please forgive me!
LOL!
Chill out, Dude! Invaluable WAS the correct word (invaluable basically means "can't have a price put on it because it's of such great value"). We're just alerting you to the fact that there's a high probability that the answers to most queries on KB are usually bollocks.

By the way - welcome to KiwiBiker! :wavey:

MSTRS
23rd October 2008, 11:47
LOL!
Chill out, Dude! Invaluable WAS the correct word (invaluable basically means "can't have a price put on it because it's of such great value"). We're just alerting you to the fact that there's a high probability that the answers to most queries on KB are usually bollocks.

By the way - welcome to KiwiBiker! :wavey:

+1 (10fcma)

davebullet
23rd October 2008, 11:48
If you are able to exercise, work on your core muscles and back muscles to provide core strength and help support your spine. This involves crunches and back hyperextensions on a swiss ball about 3 times per week. That's helped me quite a bit. If you find yourself slouching because your muscles tire - indication they may need strengthening.

Of course I have no medical background to support the above - just my experience.

Cheers,
DAvid.

svp
23rd October 2008, 11:49
"LOL!
Chill out, Dude! Invaluable WAS the correct word (invaluable basically means "can't have a price put on it because it's of such great value"). We're just alerting you to the fact that there's a high probability that the answers to most queries on KB are usually bollocks."

This forum has already questioned my sanity!!!

I have 12 windows minimised on my screen, trying to do work and educate myself on riding at the same time……I thought I was going nuts

davebullet
23rd October 2008, 14:55
Another bike to look at is the Honda VTR250. Being an upright style, it puts your feet under your body (for weight transfer over bumps) and slightly positions your upper body forward. Probably recommended for riders 6' or less in height. The only possible downside being a naked bike - is at speed, wind force is transferred to your body more than a faired bike, possibly transferring energy to your back / bum.

I went for a 6 hour ride on Sunday with several stops and my back was ok. I did notice a little soreness at the base of my back, but I put that down to slumping too much for too long.

I never have a back problem commuting on it (20-30 min rides).

Like most vehicles - any length of time in one position (long trips) and you will get some back stiffness / soreness. Secret is to plan for a longer trip to factor in stops to stretch. Often you need to anyway to natter to fellow bikers, warm up, refuel, enjoy the scenery etc...

Cheers,
Dave.

pixc
24th October 2008, 07:29
Sport-Touring style.

I agree with you there. My back very poor, sport-tour bike suited me very well. Long ride from Tauranga to Wellington, thought it may wreck me but no sweat!

CookMySock
24th October 2008, 07:48
This blanket advice on offer is poor at best. Sorry if that offends but that's the truth.It is not more the truth than his opinion.

Its just opinion. This is a forum on the internet. Think about it.

Steve

sinfull
24th October 2008, 08:16
Gees, If I followed the advice in this thread I'd be in a world of pain.

Everyone is different, Your just going to have to try a few bikes, seating positions.Moving your arse backwards of forwards a few inches may make all the difference in the world.

For me, I find I have to be in a position where I can transfer some of my weight to the pegs, and I like (have to be) to be sitting upright in the "cruiser" position otherwise the pain sets in within a few minutes.

In agreement here ! Everyones injuries are different, some have back injuries which cause pain when extending, some when they curl, some when they're upright, then there is syatica to take into it !
You just have to try them all and see what works ! It's called test riding and it's a whole lotta fun !
Don't piss around riding around the block either, as ya well know it could take an hour or more for the pain to kick in !

Headbanger
24th October 2008, 09:56
It is not more the truth than his opinion.

Its just opinion. This is a forum on the internet. Think about it.

Steve

Ah, so this is rock bottom.