Bike shop profit margins?

[cave weta]

Ive just been reading CARVERS thread on Boyds Suzuki KTM in Hamilton.

seems to me that shops are either customer driven or profit driven. They are all buying from the same wholesalers, Northern, Darby, Off Road Imports, CrownKiwi, EuroTred, Whites, blah blah blah.... yet the management decide whether they will have a nice quiet shop where the salesmen can snooze all day cos thy have price tickets with as many digits as the parts numbers (that Aprilia shop on Hewletts road Tauranga) Or they run a shop like Boyds- where 20 staff are zipping around the place sorting all the new bling that is coming in every day and getting anything that is over two months old onto the specials tables!

Their parts and accessories depertment is HUGE! they have stuff in there that many other shops dont have or even know about!

How come these guys are so busy every day when straight accross the road is another shop that is like a funeral parlour....

Simple - low margins quick= turn over of stock = happy bikers and happy managment:first:

Im in there quite often - and all the other shops in tauranga and hamilton.

Its simple; This place is different!:niceone:

What other shops have you guys noticed are always honking when the others are slow?

[Shaun]

Ive just been reading CARVERS thread on Boyds Suzuki KTM in Hamilton.

seems to me that shops are either customer driven or profit driven. They are all buying from the same wholesalers, Northern, Darby, CrownKiwi, EuroTred,
whites, blah blah blah.... yet the management decide whether they will have a nice quiet shop where the salesmen can snooze all day cos thy have price tickets with as many digits as the parts numbers (that Aprilia shop on Hewletts road Tauranga) Or they run a shop like Boyds- where 20 staff are zipping around the place sorting all the new bling that is coming in every day and getting anything that is over two months old onto the specials tables!

Their parts and accessories depertment is HUGE! they have stuff in there that many other shops dont have or even know about!

How come these guys are so busy every day when straight accross the road is another shop that is like a funeral parlour....

Simple - low margins quick= turn over of stock = happy bikers and happy managment:first:

Im in there quite often - and all the other shops in tauranga and hamilton.

Its simple; This place is different!:niceone:

What other shops have you guys noticed are always doing it when the others are slow?


www.motodynamix.co.nz

We have been on here for a few years now, and have always helped the biker, and will continue to.

We are having a NEW WEB site built very very soon, where I will be online t least 2 hours every day, and all enquiries will be awnsered with in 24 hours MAX!

We only deal in product from

Eurobike wholesalers

Darbi accesorries

Plenty of top quality from both importers.

PS well done to Boyd Suzuki for looking after there customers

[sidecar bob]

Why did you single out "that Aprilia shop on Hewletts rd"? Is that the same shop that damages your bike while they are servicing it & then blatantly refuse to accept any liability for it? or the same one that get given a poster for advertising the BADD run & throws it in the bin?
Edit. Having spoken to Ron from Strada, Apparently the BADD poster blew off the noticeboard & was damaged by a bike riding over it, That is why it was subsequently disposed of.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Ive just been reading CARVERS thread on Boyds Suzuki KTM in Hamilton.

seems to me that shops are either customer driven or profit driven. They are all buying from the same wholesalers, Northern, Darby, Off Road Imports, CrownKiwi, EuroTred, Whites, blah blah blah.... yet the management decide whether they will have a nice quiet shop where the salesmen can snooze all day cos thy have price tickets with as many digits as the parts numbers (that Aprilia shop on Hewletts road Tauranga) Or they run a shop like Boyds- where 20 staff are zipping around the place sorting all the new bling that is coming in every day and getting anything that is over two months old onto the specials tables!

Their parts and accessories depertment is HUGE! they have stuff in there that many other shops dont have or even know about!

How come these guys are so busy every day when straight accross the road is another shop that is like a funeral parlour....

Simple - low margins quick= turn over of stock = happy bikers and happy managment:first:

Im in there quite often - and all the other shops in tauranga and hamilton.

Its simple; This place is different!:niceone:

What other shops have you guys noticed are always honking when the others are slow?

If you think it's that simple...open your own shop and have a go mate!

[cave weta]

Why did you single out "that Aprilia shop on Hewletts rd"? Is that the same shop that damages your bike while they are servicing it & then blatantly refuse to accept any liability for it? or the same one that get given a poster for advertising the BADD run & throws it in the bin?

WOW!! That will be them- Its as though they are in the business of alienating motorcyclists! I could not believe their stuck up , elitist attitude! its as though they are only interested in existing Aprillia owners. Come back when you own one!

[nodrog]

..Is that the same shop that damages your bike while they are servicing it & then blatantly refuse to accept any liability for it? or the same one that get given a poster for advertising the BADD run & throws it in the bin?

or the same one that runs a $1 reserve auction for a 07 Super Duke R, which sells to a mysterious new bidder in TGA for $16500, and still has the bike at their shop 4 months later for $23500?

[cave weta]

If you think it's that simple...open your own shop and have a go mate!

If you go back and carefully read again what I said.....

All I have said is that there are a couple of different approaches to retailing
and the customers prefer the one that benefits them.

If you own a business and it is not doing well - dont jump on me for making you feel that you could be doing better- get around the other shops and see what makes them more successful!

[sidecar bob]

WOW!! That will be them- Its as though they are in the business of alienating motorcyclists! I could not believe their stuck up , elitist attitude! its as though they are only interested in existing Aprillia owners. Come back when you own one!

Ive already got two Aprilia's & it aint helping any, so no, i dont believe your theory works on that one.

[Hitcher]

Great. Another "bash a bike shop" thread.

Any motorcycle dealership that's been in business a while must be doing something right.

I don't believe that business is as simple as making a choice between being customer driven and being profit driven. Indeed the proposition put forward in this thread's first post implies that these two goals are somehow mutually exclusive.

I couldn't run a business like a motorcycle shop. The thought of having all of that stock sitting aroung eating its head off in finance charges would keep me awake at night. I also know enough about this form of retailing to know that margins are slim at best.

I'm happy to be a customer of bike shops that I think give me a fair go.

[sidecar bob]

or the same one that runs a $1 reserve auction for a 07 Super Duke R, which sells to a mysterious new bidder in TGA for $16500, and still has the bike at their shop 4 months later for $23500?

Seems to be a pattern emerging. Yes i followed that auction & i can guess exactly who the highest bidder was.
Also the one that gave me a PGO 50 scooter capable of about 55kmh to ride back to work 21km amongst logging trucks in a 70 & 100kmh area.
They said i was soft, but i didnt see them at the have a-go-day.
The last time i had my Aprilia at a shop the Demented salesman gave me a 1098 Duke to go back to work on. Now thats more like it!!

[ferriswheel]

Last 2 times my bike was in the shop they did it whilst i waited
Now thats service

[ManDownUnder]

If you own a business and ...

... and what sage advice awaits those that don't own a business? Shop somewhere else perhaps? Get the best deal you can by shopping around? Don't bitch and moan about others when all you need to do is move along?

A heads up about your experiences with a particular bike shop is fine - if there is a balancing right of reply. Or is this the interweb prerogative being exercised yet again, beating up someone in their absence... again... ?

[pixc]

Last time I was at a shop/bike mechanic, I dropped the bike on me...and they had to come out and peel it off me... hahaaahahahaa :Oops:

[cave weta]

Great. Another "bash a bike shop" thread.

Any motorcycle dealership that's been in business a while must be doing something right.

I don't believe that business is as simple as making a choice between being customer driven and being profit driven. Indeed the proposition put forward in this thread's first post implies that these two goals are somehow mutually exclusive.
I couldn't run a business like a motorcycle shop. The thought of having all of that stock sitting aroung eating its head off in finance charges would keep me awake at night. I also know enough about this form of retailing to know that margins are slim at best.

I'm happy to be a customer of bike shops that I think give me a fair go.

Mutually exclusive? - is that when you both decide that you will fuck just one person at a time?

And yes me too! Im happy to be a customer of bike shops that give me a fair go...I buy a lot of stuff having 9 bikes that are ridden all the time.

Top Fun Motorcycles in Hamilton - One guy runs the whole place - god knows how he does it- but he has always got all the good dirt bike stuff in stock his prices are sharp as! And he can get pretty much anything you need within a few days as he is not tied to any franchise deals. So he sources the best bits from all the best manufacturers!

[vifferman]

Don't bike shops have a right to charge what they like? The trick is making a reasonable return on investment without charging too much and losing potential customers.
There's always a risk with selling stuff too cheap that they could go out of business, so then they're of no use to the customer base they've built up anyway!

I guess the bottom line is that the customer FEELS like they are valued, and enjoys doing business with the shop. While I like to get a good price for things, I don't mind paying a little extra if I feel the shop is looking after me and isn't just interested in a quick buck.
F'rinstance - the shop I bought my bike from made a good profit on the bike, and on the bike I traded in on it. But they've made nothing (zero, zip, nada!) in the four years since then. I've made a point of buying my Honda parts elsewhere, and my accessories, consumables and bike gear from any shop but theirs.
Why?
Because they basically lied to me (about my trade-in, and about accessories for the 'new' bike), and because they made it very clear their attitude was profit before customer service.
Very shoddy.
All it would've taken for me to give them my on-going custom, and to have spent several thousands more dollars in their shop, would've been to have told me the truth, and to have been prepared to sacrifice $50-$100 in order to gain more future custom. Overall, they would still have made a HUGE profit on the initial sale, but would have conveyed an entirely different message.

The biggest regret I have (apart from buying from them in the first place) is that I haven't told them all this, so they have no idea how much custom they've lost.
But fukkem - if they were doing their job right, they'd know all this stuff. Obviously they're too arrogant to notice.

[AllanB]

They will stock what sells and what they hope will sell – everything else can be ordered in.
A couple of the importer have had the bright idea to product a booklet with their goodies in free at the shops – “Road Guide” springs to mind, your shop can order anything you desire from his.

With respect to holding stock in Christchurch tyres are pretty much covered by two tyre specialists – Pit Lane and Budget – many of the shops no longer stock tyres and just send you to them. One shop commented to me that it works well as they do not need to hold thousands of dollars of stock in tyres – more money for bikes.

Basically if you don’t like the service go elsewhere.

[cave weta]

... and what sage advice awaits those that don't own a business? Shop somewhere else perhaps? Get the best deal you can by shopping around? Don't bitch and moan about others when all you need to do is move along?

A heads up about your experiences with a particular bike shop is fine - if there is a balancing right of reply. Or is this the interweb prerogative being exercised yet again, beating up someone in their absence... again... ?



A balanced right of reply!?- im not sure whether you are addressing me personally or all the people who have posted here....
But if you read my posts more carefully - you should see that I started by backing up Carvers tyre purchasing experience with a damn good bike shop!
then I mentioned that another shop that sells Aprilias- not sure of its name-
was taking a different approach to customer service. And further down my dealings with another Hamilton Dirt Bike Specialist Store...This has just been
"A HEADS UP ON MY EXPERIENCES"

[FROSTY]

I'm probably kinda qualified to answer this one.
Its bloody hard in todays market to find a balance that works.
To stay open in reality its not about making margin its about $$$$$
After paying rent,power ,phones,wages,warranty claims we need to actually make money or we might just as well go on the dole.
So one shops philosophy. --Lots of staff each taking say $500-600 from the business (thats about 400-500 nett by the way) might well work for them as long as they keep selling lots of accessories.
Another shop might think sod it -less staff cuts the overheads so we make our money that way .
Either way you should do the best you can to offer good customer service. People tend to talk with their feet if you do or dont.

[Katman]

you should see that I started by backing up Carvers tyre purchasing experience with a damn good bike shop!


My workshop would be selling at a loss if I tried to match the deal Carver's got.

Are you suggesting that's what I should do?

[Ducky848]

Last 2 times my bike was in the shop they did it whilst i waited
Now thats service

Or a really quiet day and they had nothing else on........

The best form of service is simply dealing with someone who under-promises and over-delivers.

I'm also reminded of the 2 outta 3 rule:

The 3 things a customer wants:

Cheapest price
Best Quality
Fastest Service

You can only ever have 2 of these things...very, very seldom do you get all 3.

You choose.

[cave weta]

My workshop would be selling at a loss if I tried to match the deal Carver's got.

Are you suggesting that's what I should do?

I sell bikes too - just for the day though, and I fix bikes- just for me though,

and I provide customer service too- just like you guys. So Im kinda in the same boat.

But now that you have read what the buying public have to say about one or two different shops- Its plain to see that it is a balance - but the next man who walks into your store with a helmet in his hand is the most important customer you have ever had- make him feel that way and he will be.
I recon that some operators need a wakeup thats all!

You know that you do your best- its just that some bike dealers have the wrong attitude- and yes.... we old bastards have heard it all before. But the newbies reading this need to understand that a big shiny showroom doesnt always mean that its a safe place to spend your money...

Years ago I bought My first bike from Manurewa Motorcycles, shiny showroom - gullible young bloke with access to finance- the bastard saw me coming! - his business went broke eventually, but he ripped off countless naieve teenagers before Suzuki took his franchise away from him and he closed up.

[Crasherfromwayback]

If you go back and carefully read again what I said.....

All I have said is that there are a couple of different approaches to retailing
and the customers prefer the one that benefits them.

If you own a business and it is not doing well - dont jump on me for making you feel that you could be doing better- get around the other shops and see what makes them more successful!

I read and fully understood what you said don't worry. You slagged a shop off, not knowing what their particular circumstances are. Yeah Boyds may have 20 people running round doing the bizz...and that's probably why they can pass stuff on at a better price...because they're going through more from a particular wholesaler...they're probably getting it at a better price.

I've worked in BOTH small and LARGE dealerships over 21 years (3 here in Welly and 2 in Brisbane)...and in that time dealt with many more.

99% of dealerships are owned by motorcycle enthusiasts that are simply trying to have a lifestyle and pay the bills. I've yet to meet anyone that owns ANY motorcycle shop that wants to or intends to rip people off.

So no mate...I'm working for a dealership that's been round for 35 years and has always done just fine...but I also sympathise for the lil guys.

Give them a break.

[cave weta]

I read and fully understood what you said don't worry. You slagged a shop off, not knowing what their particular circumstances are. Yeah Boyds may have 20 people running round doing the bizz...and that's probably why they can pass stuff on at a better price...because they're going through more from a particular wholesaler...they're probably getting it at a better price.

I've worked in BOTH small and LARGE dealerships over 21 years (3 here in Welly and 2 in Brisbane)...and in that time dealt with many more.

99% of dealerships are owned by motorcycle enthusiasts that are simply trying to have a lifestyle and pay the bills. I've yet to meet anyone that owns ANY motorcycle shop that wants to or intends to rip people off.

So no mate...I'm working for a dealership that's been round for 35 years and has always done just fine...but I also sympathise for the lil guys.

Give them a break.

The little guys... OK Top Fun is a one man band and is getting bigger and bigger year by year, check out his online store - www.topfun.co.nz
he has what you want and at a good price.he has hoards of customers every day proving that it can be done.

The un named Aprilia shop that has huge margins on all their stuff and treat you like shit is always empty.

My point isnt small vs large, it started as high margin vs low margin but other posters turned it into bad vs good.

Must admit though- that the stories that came out about the Aprilia shop totally made my mind up about them. (by the way- I would say thay are mid sized with about 4 staff)

[retro asian]

Yeah, give the shops a break... I haven't found any to be too overpriced so far...

We want them to make money and stay in business, for our convenience.

Otherwise I'll have to open a bike stall at the Sunday markets selling fake FOX gear, and the like. Prices will start on a 3 times mark up -if you're good you can haggle down to 10% margin...

[SwanTiger]

I will not bother reading through this thread, however after skim reading through the initial post and realising it relates to Carver, I will offer this input; Carver is a piece of shit and a retarded imbred idiot who poses a real threat to the future generations of New Zealand if he breeds.

[vifferman]

Carver is a piece of shit and a retarded imbred idiot who poses a real threat to the future generations of New Zealand if he breeds.
So... you quite like him then? :confused:

[nallac]

ummm, this didn't start off as a shop bashing thread altho everyone else turned it in to one....
it was a simple question does anyone know of other shops who are doing/do well compared to others,? similar to Boyds in hamihole.
only been in there once came away impressed .(with free stuff).

[alanzs]

When I purchase a bike, It has to be a win-win for everyone involved, or I go elsewhere. I expect to be treated fairly; get a fair deal on a trade in and a fair deal on the new bike. If I feel like the sharks are circling, trying to rip me off, I walk.

If it's a win-win situation I will be a loyal happy customer and spend a lot of my money there and tell others about it. Very simple. :yes:

[FROSTY]

Hey folks Im interested to hear
What do you concider a fair profit from a bike ??
$100,$500,$1000 , $1500 $2000??

Ok so what mark up on cost do you think a shop has to make to acheive this?




Before you answer take this into concideration.
Aunty helen takes 12.5% of the profit
All operating expenses of the business have to be paid from the profit.
Including rent,rates,power phone,advertising,staff,insurance,and cost of stock
All warranty claims have to be covered from that profit.
So what then would you say is Fair?

[Pussy]

When I bought my K3 GSX-R1000 brand new, the selling dealer showed me the invoice from Suzuki NZ. I was surprised how little was actually in it for the dealer.
All I expect is a fair deal, too. For everyone involved

[sidecar bob]

When I bought my K3 GSX-R1000 brand new, the selling dealer showed me the invoice from Suzuki NZ. I was surprised how little was actually in it for the dealer.
All I expect is a fair deal, too. For everyone involved

There are plenty of other benifits for the dealer in selling a bike over & above the profit margin. Some offer a monthly rebate with the amount depending on thruput of that brand for the month.

[doc]

I'm not too worried about what their profit margin is. After all it's their business not mine. If you feel you have been ripped off you don't go back. Easy to say bling does that aye. I'm more worried about confidence in the service department. Prefer to ride away noticing or thinking yep this has been worked on and feels like it. Just have felt in the past after forking out close to a grand on a service took 8 hrs Yeah right, looking at the inspect , check , replace sheet that all I basically got was an oil change.
0k in the last 50k and 2 years the shims have not needed adjusting once . Thats how many hours of wrenching required inspecting at 80 hr ? A new car has them checked how often with modern materials and machining, surely a bike engine shouldn't need that much attention other that oil changes and they know it but charge according to the factory service check sheet . Without doing the work, That must improve their profit margins for the bling part of the shop. :2guns:

[MadDuck]

Hey folks Im interested to hear
What do you concider a fair profit from a bike ??
$100,$500,$1000 , $1500 $2000??

Ok so what mark up on cost do you think a shop has to make to acheive this?

Too many variables to come up with a simple $ value or even % mark up.

For example rent and rates in say Henderson will vary considerably than those in say Khyber Pass or the central city. Wages in Auckland will vary to those in smaller towns....blah blah blah

[Goblin]

Another plus for Boyds (when they were Honda). I found them to be most helpful and always tried to get me the best deal on whatever I needed.

When I needed a brake seal kit for my ratty I tried my local shop who told me "I'll do you a good deal! $80 and a 3 week wait." Phoned another shop in The Mt and got the seal kit for $40 the very next day. So I dont even ask my local anymore. Why would I?

[Ocean1]

Don't bike shops have a right to charge what they like?

I've had more than one shop owner tell me that both buy and sell prices are dictated by the principle. That's why they're often more flexible on extras than price. If that's substantially correct then a) it's potentially price fixing, wot's marginally illegal, and b) profit is manageable only in terms of overheads...


Hey folks Im interested to hear
What do you concider a fair profit from a bike ??
$100,$500,$1000 , $1500 $2000??

Ok so what mark up on cost do you think a shop has to make to acheive this?

... Which makes our opinion on margins irrelevent, but may explain a trend I've noticed for punters to find better deals in the provicial, even rural centres, where rent etc is far friendlier.

I suspect difficult times are already causing stress for most of 'em also, big and small. Smaller dealers may well have more options for survival though, more flexible.

[Forest]

Before you answer take this into concideration.
Aunty helen takes 12.5% of the profit
All operating expenses of the business have to be paid from the profit.
Including rent,rates,power phone,advertising,staff,insurance,and cost of stock
All warranty claims have to be covered from that profit.
So what then would you say is Fair?

GST has zero net cost to the bike dealer - don't forget that they claim back the GST that they pay to acquire the stock.

However they do of course have to pay 33% of their final profit as company tax.

To answer your original question - I personally don't give a shit how much profit they're making on the bike. Thought I reserve the right the right to laugh when I see things like this (http://haldanemotorcycles.motorcycletrader.co.nz/ItemDetail.aspx?N=0&Ns=P_Price%7c1&No=40&item=23668&sid=117A74FE7350).

In case the link doesn't work, it is a dealer listing for a 1994 NSR250 SP in Rothmans colours with 27,235 km. Asking price is $10,995

[Ixion]

GST does affect cash flow though. More businesses go under through cash flow failure than through actually losing money.

[MadDuck]

GST does affect cash flow though. More businesses go under through cash flow failure than through actually losing money.

Disagree. Most businesses go under because of bad management decisions.

[AllanB]

Ah one thing I don't get here reading this - why has (or would) anyone buy a new bike if they were not getting a good deal/service? Surely you are doing your homework - checking magazines and the net for the bikes price in NZ, checking on prices of your trade and getting a few prices from different shops for your trade so you have a realistic value of it (thats about 25% less than you really think it is worth !).

If you have done your research you should be able to organise a realistic purchase/trade combo that is good for both parties.

I've done exactly this on my last two bikes and both have come from Dunedin (I live in Christchurch) as that's where I got the best deal.

No gripes with my local dealers I just got a better cash then trade deal (plus delivered for free).
So if you think you have been screwed on your new purchase, did you do your homework first.

Remember NZ is a small country and its only about $400 to get a bike delivered between islands (or less if the shop will go halves with you).

[Jantar]

Hey folks Im interested to hear
What do you concider a fair profit from a bike ??
$100,$500,$1000 , $1500 $2000??

Ok so what mark up on cost do you think a shop has to make to acheive this?




Before you answer take this into concideration.
Aunty helen takes 12.5% of the profit
All operating expenses of the business have to be paid from the profit.
Including rent,rates,power phone,advertising,staff,insurance,and cost of stock
All warranty claims have to be covered from that profit.
So what then would you say is Fair?

A fair question, and no-one so far seems prepared to answer. IMO it should be around $500 to cover the fixed costs of ownership transfer, advertising, floor space etc, and a variable component of 10 - 20%. Thus a bike that will retail for $9999 would get $8000 offered as a trade in.

This should allow for some haggling on items like new tyres or similar as part of a sales deal. But the shop that relies on bike sales for income will quickly go bust. The real profit is in keeping that customer coming back for services, accessories, or just for a chat while they browse. The shop that has its workshop busy will succeed ahead of one that makes a one time profit off a bike sale, and never sees that customer again.

Why do you think the mark-up on new bikes is so small? Its because the dealer knows that in most cases that customer is locked into using his workshop for the next two years. :niceone:

[FROSTY]

A fair question, and no-one so far seems prepared to answer. IMO it should be around $500 to cover the fixed costs of ownership transfer, advertising, floor space etc, and a variable component of 10 - 20%. Thus a bike that will retail for $9999 would get $8000 offered as a trade in.
And what would you concider a fair discount for cash purchase then?

[FROSTY]

GST has zero net cost to the bike dealer - don't forget that they claim back the GST that they pay to acquire the stock.

However they do of course have to pay 33% of their final profit as company tax.
sorry to corect ya there dude. We claim GST on the purchace price but we PAY Gst on the sale price. so there is 12.5% GST on any NETT profit.


Can I put the boot on the other foot.
If you had taken say $300000 to buy a bike shop. Worked 12 hours a day 6 and (Mt eden MC as an example) 7 days a week what would you want back out of it?

Im not having a go just wondering how you folk think about this stuff

[Jantar]

That would depend on how badly the dealer wants to move that particular bike, what work had to be done to the bike to get it to showroom condition, any trade in etc. I certainly wouldn't like to put a generic number on it.

[ital916]

what I would like to know is everyones opinion on the mentality of how people are always asking for discounts. Even on a sale day when prices are well and truly astronomically good there is always the "so can you cut me a better deal".

It doesn't happen with computer games/music/movies so why bikes and bike gear. Fair enough with bikes because it is a lot of moeny maybe a little haggling is good to ease the mind but your kidding yourself if you want to get more than 200 off the bike i reckon..if the dealer gets rid of on raod and a little more thats already a 500 off the bike which in my books is good enough. It is the customer service I prfer.

[DMNTD]

what I would like to know is everyones opinion on the mentality of how people are always asking for discounts. Even on a sale day when prices are well and truly astronomically good there is always the "so can you cut me a better deal".

It doesn't happen with computer games/music/movies so why bikes and bike gear. Fair enough with bikes because it is a lot of moeny maybe a little haggling is good to ease the mind but your kidding yourself if you want to get more than 200 off the bike i reckon..if the dealer gets rid of on raod and a little more thats already a 500 off the bike which in my books is good enough. It is the customer service I prfer.

Yep I get it all day every day. Generally I sell new bikes at window price but discount the gear they may want. Profit margins in new bikes are a heck of a lot lower than what most would realise.
Second hand bikes...depends....if they are trading...window price. Cash/finance...then we can talk creative finance.

Some people forget that lights must be turned on,wages paid ...same with a power load of bills!

Good service and "an experience" if free though :niceone:

[ital916]

Yep I get it all day every day. Generally I sell new bikes at window price but discount the gear they may want. Profit margins in new bikes are a heck of a lot lower than what most would realise.
Second hand bikes...depends....if they are trading...window price. Cash/finance...then we can talk creative finance.

Some people forget that lights must be turned on,wages paid ...same with a power load of bills!

Good service and "an experience" if free though :niceone:

Agreed, I've just gotten used to th amount of haggling that happens since I started working in a bike store. :eek:, A smile and a how is your day is nice when walking in the front door.

[Forest]

sorry to corect ya there dude. We claim GST on the purchace price but we PAY Gst on the sale price. so there is 12.5% GST on any NETT profit.

GST has no net cost to a business.

While your business will likely end up with net GST inputs (which you then remit to the government) it doesn't actually cost your business anything. You collect the GST from your customers and pass it on to the government i.e. it isn't coming out of your pocket.

[sidecar bob]

GST has no net cost to a business.

While your business will likely end up with net GST inputs (which you then remit to the government) it doesn't actually cost your business anything. You collect the GST from your customers and pass it on to the government i.e. it isn't coming out of your pocket.

So where do i send my wage bill too? Clearly as a GST collector i am a govt employee so id like to be paid.

[FROSTY]

GST has no net cost to a business.

While your business will likely end up with net GST inputs (which you then remit to the government) it doesn't actually cost your business anything. You collect the GST from your customers and pass it on to the government i.e. it isn't coming out of your pocket.
Wasn't making my point clearly was I
The general feeling I get from folks is 'Ohh the buggers make a mint"
They think for example if I buy a bike at $3000 and sell it for $4000 then theres a $1000 profit going into my pocket.
They forget that aunty helen takes her $125 of it
Not moaning about it--thats the reality of life
Mind you Im all for shutting down all retail of any sort on a sunday.

[Forest]

Wasn't making my point clearly was I
The general feeling I get from folks is 'Ohh the buggers make a mint"
They think for example if I buy a bike at $3000 and sell it for $4000 then theres a $1000 profit going into my pocket.
They forget that aunty helen takes her $125 of it
Not moaning about it--thats the reality of life
Mind you Im all for shutting down all retail of any sort on a sunday.

I'm talking about cost from a business accounting perspective. You can verify GST has no net cost by observing that it doesn't appear in your company's profit & loss accounts.

But I do understand what you're saying. Your customers probably don't realise that the government is collecting GST on the resale margin (and that the GST goes to Aunty Helen rather than to yourself).

[Forest]

So where do i send my wage bill too? Clearly as a GST collector i am a govt employee so id like to be paid.

I know. It really sucks doesn't it.

[ManDownUnder]

fark - let me turn the tide a little.

http://www.motocross.co.nz/ <== near me in Kumeu. STUNNING service - young guy does an honest job at fair rates. It's worth the trip across town

Recent experiences with a KBer now working at Cycle Treads... his reputation around the place is good too - so - Cycle treads get (yet another) thumbs up from me.

I'll be going back to both places without hesitation

[Ixion]

Wasn't making my point clearly was I
The general feeling I get from folks is 'Ohh the buggers make a mint"
They think for example if I buy a bike at $3000 and sell it for $4000 then theres a $1000 profit going into my pocket.
They forget that aunty helen takes her $125 of it
Not moaning about it--thats the reality of life
Mind you Im all for shutting down all retail of any sort on a sunday.

Oh dear. I do hope you have an accountant prepare your GST returns.

GST liability on such a trade is of course $111.11, not $125.

Purchase of secondhand goods for $3000, from a non-GST-registered source, input tax credit of $333.33

Sale of ditto , to ditto, for $4000 output tax liability $444.44

Difference thereof, $111.11.

Unless your purchases and sales are GST exclusive. Unlikely (though sometimes encountered , eg a business specialising in trucks)

[Shaun]

Yep I get it all day every day. Generally I sell new bikes at window price but discount the gear they may want. Profit margins in new bikes are a heck of a lot lower than what most would realise.
Second hand bikes...depends....if they are trading...window price. Cash/finance...then we can talk creative finance.

Some people forget that lights must be turned on,wages paid ...same with a power load of bills!

Good service and "an experience" if free though :niceone:



Agreed mate, you guys at Bay Ride have a great attitude

[FROSTY]

Oh dear. I do hope you have an accountant prepare your GST returns.

GST liability on such a trade is of course $111.11, not $125.

Purchase of secondhand goods for $3000, from a non-GST-registered source, input tax credit of $333.33

Sale of ditto , to ditto, for $4000 output tax liability $444.44

Difference thereof, $111.11.

Unless your purchases and sales are GST exclusive. Unlikely (though sometimes encountered , eg a business specialising in trucks)
NOW I know how I get all my split ends.--Its YOU out splitting hairs :devil2:

[Ixion]

Trust me, where the IRD are concerned, no hair is too fine to split. Always to your disadvantage of course.

[boman]

When I bought my new SV1000. I didn't buy it off the cheapest shop. I bought it off the shop that gave me the best SERVICE. Scott at MR Motorcycles bent over backwards to accomodate me. And he was only $250.00 dearer in the end.


:clap:

[Drogen Omen]

i used to think Wellington motorcycles was a crap shop cause they are so expensive gear wise and labour wise... after taking my motorbike to every other monkey bike shop in wellington region over a 12 month period to try and get it fixed... Welly motorcycles had it for 1 hour told me what the problem was exactly what i needed to fix it and how much it was gona cost. 1 week later when the parts arrived they had it for 1.5 days and it was fixed...

TSS in lower hut hasd it for 4 months charged me $700 for not fixing it...
Motomart Didnt want to know about it...
Motorad didnt want to know about it...

Good on ya welly motorcycles for sorting me out...bigest cost after the parts was GST... fucking governemt...

[nodrog]

..... 1 week later when the farts arrived they had it for 1.5 days and it was fixed......

do they go in the gas tank?

[Drogen Omen]

hehe cant spell...

fixed it just for you...

[alanzs]

sorry to corect ya there dude. We claim GST on the purchace price but we PAY Gst on the sale price. so there is 12.5% GST on any NETT profit.


Can I put the boot on the other foot.
If you had taken say $300000 to buy a bike shop. Worked 12 hours a day 6 and (Mt eden MC as an example) 7 days a week what would you want back out of it?

Im not having a go just wondering how you folk think about this stuff

I'd want to make at least $100k (net) a year. Otherwise, why take the risks associated with owning a dealership/business. :niceone:

[carver]

I will not bother reading through this thread, however after skim reading through the initial post and realising it relates to Carver, I will offer this input; Carver is a piece of shit and a retarded imbred idiot who poses a real threat to the future generations of New Zealand if he breeds.

feeling a little serious today?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28573&d=1142754619

why not meet me in person one day

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28704&d=1142931629

[dpex]

This thread started out illuminating the significant differences between sundry retailers, and then went elsewhere.

So, to back up the bus for a moment I also notice that many Auckland bike shops have staff (particularly in the spares depts) with a significant attitude problem. I don't expect any staff to fawn over me, but I do expect them to notice I'm at the counter while they chat to others behind the counter or on the phone.

Perhaps they're seriously underpaid and thus the Peanuts/monkeys paradigm operates.

But then I discover places like Henderson Yamaha. I go in to buy a couple of screws and nearly always come away $500 poorer having been sold something I 'really' needed.

I have discovered I can buy some stuff way-cheaper than they charge but four things allow me to accept the extra margins. 1) They all just make me feel like I have some value to them. 2) They are always straight with me. No bullshit. 3) I can wander in and ask a question and get an answer without being made to feel I'm taking up their valuable time. 4) They are all, to fault, just damned nice people.

So I don't mind paying a bit extra.

By comparison...Last weekend I headed off to Manfield, bereft of any CO2 cylinders, lest I should get yet another bloody puncture....I seem to be prone to getting nails in my rear tyre.... The troops at Henderson Yamaha had none in stock but got on the phone. No luck.

From there I headed South and called into seven bike shops. All had the same attitude. My prob was too small amongst their very busy day. Till, finally, I entered the portals of Hamilton Motorcycles. The young bloke behind the counter was working two phones (they were short-staffed, I learned) plus there were three other folk in the shop wanting 'stuff'.

Somehow, in between working the phones and dealing with the others, this young bloke asked the nature of my problem, did three-second think and said, 'Over there's the coffee machine. I'll sort something out for ya. Might take a while.'

Jesus H Christ! A staffer with a good attitude. Twenty minutes later he'd sourced the cylinders, taken my money, given me a doc to take to the wholesaler who "never" allows customers to enter their doors, and my prob was solved.

Three cylinders cost me 30 bucks. What a rip-off! Did I mind? Not in the least. I'd had a staffer work out my problem like it was his own. I wouldn't have cared if they'd wanted 60 bucks cos he made me feel like I was a valuable customer.

So that covers the start of this thread.

Where it got to was profit margins. I think someone in this thread has made the point.... You want to make comments about profit margins, then go into business yourself. Until you have, or are, then kindly restrict your comments to stuff you know a bit about.

One particular car dealer of my acquaintance busts his hump seven days a week for an income for which I personally wouldn't get out of bed.

He's self employed and, as all self-employed suffer during the hard times, this guy does the 2am sweats, unlike employees whom, by simply turning up to do their job, get to put out their hands on Thursdays.

Someone else on this thread made the point about stock holding. I estimate that Henderson Yamaha are sitting on about $700,000 of stock, and upwards of $300,000 in equipment. Seven staff. That's $400,000 a year with wages and all other costs.

That means the business has to earn $32 an hour, 24/7, just to pay the wages, and I haven't mentioned rent, rates, phones, power, accounting, bureaucratic conformance, et al.

So the guy who owns it has to do better than bank-rates on his investment otherwise he may as well put his bucks in the bank and go fishing...or riding.

I have to say having been in business on my own for upwards of thirty years, the dude who runs Henderson Yamaha, and in fact any dude who runs a high-stock-value business has got way bigger nads than I will ever have.

And so I offer significant respect to any person who has the nads to set up a bike shop, but a I really do get quite annoyed when I find the conduit to their salvation, aka the staff dealing with customers su ch as I, have such a bad attitude.

[98tls]

Nice post dpex,ive sold cars for Toyota and Ford,sold bikes in a Suzuki dearlership and made bloody good money doing it,over the years since giving it away at times ive been appalled at the service offered in some dealerships once even writing a letter to the dealer principal (including a photocopy of my references to show i had some experiance in the game) suggesting if he wanted better sales figures to lose the loser he had out front.On the profit thing in my day it was 12% in a new car but rarely was it accomplished in fact ive often seen dealerships sell a car for no profit if approaching the end of a 1/4.

[fridsy]

This thread started out illuminating the significant differences between sundry retailers, and then went elsewhere.

So, to back up the bus for a moment I also notice that many Auckland bike shops have staff (particularly in the spares depts) with a significant attitude problem. I don't expect any staff to fawn over me, but I do expect them to notice I'm at the counter while they chat to others behind the counter or on the phone.

Perhaps they're seriously underpaid and thus the Peanuts/monkeys paradigm operates.

But then I discover places like Henderson Yamaha. I go in to buy a couple of screws and nearly always come away $500 poorer having been sold something I 'really' needed.

I have discovered I can buy some stuff way-cheaper than they charge but four things allow me to accept the extra margins. 1) They all just make me feel like I have some value to them. 2) They are always straight with me. No bullshit. 3) I can wander in and ask a question and get an answer without being made to feel I'm taking up their valuable time. 4) They are all, to fault, just damned nice people.

So I don't mind paying a bit extra.

By comparison...Last weekend I headed off to Manfield, bereft of any CO2 cylinders, lest I should get yet another bloody puncture....I seem to be prone to getting nails in my rear tyre.... The troops at Henderson Yamaha had none in stock but got on the phone. No luck.

From there I headed South and called into seven bike shops. All had the same attitude. My prob was too small amongst their very busy day. Till, finally, I entered the portals of Hamilton Motorcycles. The young bloke behind the counter was working two phones (they were short-staffed, I learned) plus there were three other folk in the shop wanting 'stuff'.

Somehow, in between working the phones and dealing with the others, this young bloke asked the nature of my problem, did three-second think and said, 'Over there's the coffee machine. I'll sort something out for ya. Might take a while.'

Jesus H Christ! A staffer with a good attitude. Twenty minutes later he'd sourced the cylinders, taken my money, given me a doc to take to the wholesaler who "never" allows customers to enter their doors, and my prob was solved.

Three cylinders cost me 30 bucks. What a rip-off! Did I mind? Not in the least. I'd had a staffer work out my problem like it was his own. I wouldn't have cared if they'd wanted 60 bucks cos he made me feel like I was a valuable customer.

So that covers the start of this thread.

Where it got to was profit margins. I think someone in this thread has made the point.... You want to make comments about profit margins, then go into business yourself. Until you have, or are, then kindly restrict your comments to stuff you know a bit about.

One particular car dealer of my acquaintance busts his hump seven days a week for an income for which I personally wouldn't get out of bed.

He's self employed and, as all self-employed suffer during the hard times, this guy does the 2am sweats, unlike employees whom, by simply turning up to do their job, get to put out their hands on Thursdays.

Someone else on this thread made the point about stock holding. I estimate that Henderson Yamaha are sitting on about $700,000 of stock, and upwards of $300,000 in equipment. Seven staff. That's $400,000 a year with wages and all other costs.

That means the business has to earn $32 an hour, 24/7, just to pay the wages, and I haven't mentioned rent, rates, phones, power, accounting, bureaucratic conformance, et al.

So the guy who owns it has to do better than bank-rates on his investment otherwise he may as well put his bucks in the bank and go fishing...or riding.

I have to say having been in business on my own for upwards of thirty years, the dude who runs Henderson Yamaha, and in fact any dude who runs a high-stock-value business has got way bigger nads than I will ever have.

And so I offer significant respect to any person who has the nads to set up a bike shop, but a I really do get quite annoyed when I find the conduit to their salvation, aka the staff dealing with customers su ch as I, have such a bad attitude.

AMEN!

The deal breaker of any retail outlet is the Staff! their attitude and commitment to GREAT customer service makes or breaks the business:clap:

[MadDuck]

Perhaps they're seriously underpaid and thus the Peanuts/monkeys paradigm operates.

Or perhaps the shop is quilty of not providing adequate training or supervision. But thats ok you can come on an internet and demean them..


So I don't mind paying a bit extra.

Yep I agree


From there I headed South and called into seven bike shops. All had the same attitude. My prob was too small amongst their very busy day.

Maybe they heard you were coming


Jesus H Christ! A staffer with a good attitude.

I was telling a KBer about the great service I got at an Auckland bike shop and described the person to them. They laughed and said that they had the opposite experience from the same person.


One particular car dealer of my acquaintance busts his hump seven days a week for an income for which I personally wouldn't get out of bed.

His choice. Theres a lot of businesses suffering out there.


I really do get quite annoyed when I find the conduit to their salvation, aka the staff dealing with customers su ch as I, have such a bad attitude.

Training and supervision. It aint that hard ah?

[98tls]

Or perhaps the shop is quilty of not providing adequate training or supervision. But thats ok you can come on an internet and demean them..



Yep I agree



Maybe they heard you were coming



I was telling a KBer about the great service I got at an Auckland bike shop and described the person to them. They laughed and said that they had the opposite experience from the same person.



His choice. Theres a lot of businesses suffering out there.



Training and supervision. It aint that hard ah? Toyota used to (rarely) put us through a bit of a training course,the only thing i remember of them was when the bloke in summing up once said "all this aside people will generally deal with someone they like,even at times ignoring a better deal dollar wise",best salespeople i ever met where ones like myself who had had no training,basically put its about people skills methinks,the ability to deal with joe bloggs or Sir Joe Bloggs and never presume anything.The only thing that matters really is the numbers next to your name at the end of the month,how you do it doesnt matter if your top of the heap month in month out.

[MadDuck]

best salespeople i ever met where ones like myself who had had no training,basically put its about people skills methinks,the ability to deal with joe bloggs or Sir Joe Bloggs and never presume

That has to be one of the better responses. What service works for me will vary completely to what works for Mr Big hairy biker.

[98tls]

That has to be one of the better responses. What service works for me will vary completely to what works for Mr Big hairy biker.
Can still remember an Asian couple arriving on the yard about 5.30 ish one friday night,cars all locked up and in a hurry to get down to the pub with the rest of them:doh:these 2 looked like a couple of street bums with not a $ between them,an hour later they came back with from memory mid $20,000 in cash:blank: and bought a GLX liftback demonstrator,bloody sales manager had gone home and i didnt have the safe combo so had to wait mucho boozing time before he turned up.Turned out these two owned a very succesful Asian resturant,as i say presume nothing.:niceone:

[Swoop]

The last time i had my Aprilia at a shop the Demented salesman gave me a 1098 Duke to go back to work on. Now thats more like it!!
What a nutter. Who would ever go to a shop that does that.:whistle::mobile:

I'm more worried about confidence in the service department.
Damn right. Confidence in their spares and "back-up" department is vital as well. Most dealerships forget this and put the "boy" in spares...
A dealership on Barry's Point Rd pops into the head for some reason.

Agreed, I've just gotten used to th amount of haggling that happens since I started working in a bike store. :eek:, A smile and a how is your day is nice when walking in the front door.
A quick learner...:niceone:

[DMNTD]

The last time i had my Aprilia at a shop the Demented salesman gave me a 1098 Duke to go back to work on. Now thats more like it!!

LOL...happy you enjoyed it Steve.
Not often you get offered a 1098 as a loan bike eh? :shifty:
Damn I love my job! :done:

[98tls]

LOL...happy you enjoyed it Steve.
Not often you get offered a 1098 as a loan bike eh? :shifty:
Damn I love my job! :done: :doh:makes me wish id never givin the game away.

[MadDuck]

these 2 looked like a couple of street bums with not a $ between them,an hour later they came back with from memory mid $20,000 in cash:blank:

When I go to purchase anything that has a high (or reasonable) value I rock up in my dirty ole track pants. I find sales people leave me alone so I can have a good look around without being hounded.

Love to see their faces when I ask for a discount for cash :2thumbsup

[DMNTD]

:doh:makes me wish id never givin the game away.

It has its up sides for sure!
Last thing I was dong tonight was licking the fairing of a brand new Desmosedici...serious :bleh:

[carver]

It has its up sides for sure!
Last thing I was dong tonight was licking the fairing of a brand new Desmosedici...serious :bleh:

and people think the mormon few are gay!

[98tls]

When I go to purchase anything that has a high (or reasonable) value I rock up in my dirty ole track pants. I find sales people leave me alone so I can have a good look around without being hounded.

Love to see their faces when I ask for a discount for cash :2thumbsup :niceone:Though in a franchised car dealership method of payment was irrelevant,no trade a bonus though.Lets face it those with there own finance company would far prefer you to finance rather than cash,whilst doing the paperwork they can unload a grossly overpriced warrenty on ya.:doh:

[98tls]

It has its up sides for sure!
Last thing I was dong tonight was licking the fairing of a brand new Desmosedici...serious :bleh: Dont know you from a bar of soap D but at times you seem a complete and utter bastard.:niceone:

[DMNTD]

Dont know you from a bar of soap D but at times you seem a complete and utter bastard.:niceone:

What a very astute bloke you be sir :niceone:

[MadDuck]

Dont know you from a bar of soap D but at times you seem a complete and utter bastard.:niceone:

I can vouch for that :bleh:

[carver]

The major difference is is that I'm only kidding ;)

i think i read the word serious?

[madbikeboy]

Hey Vifferman. I do.

I got some shocking service from a clothes store, where I used to spend a reasonable amount of dough on shirts and suits. I got shit service, so I called the CEO of the business and explained why I will never spend another cent there. Did the same with Continental Cars.

I work hard for my money. I think the people serving me in a shop have an obligation to show professionalism and provide solid advice. If they don't, then I won't go back. Hence the reason why I haven't bought a bike from a couple of notible Suzuki dealers in town... Holeshot are generally pretty good, and sooner or later, I'll buy a newer scoot from them...

If you get bad service, ring the owner.

[nallac]

and people think the mormon few are gay!


yip.........

[alanzs]

Went to Henderson Yamaha a few weeks back. I ended up buying a new bike from them. Here's why (and not necessarily in order of importance):

They gave me more than I thought I would get on my trade in,
I paid less than what they originally said I'd have to pay for the new bike,
They answered every question I had,
They have contacted me after the sale to find out if everything is ok and am I enjoying the new ride.
They treated me like I was important and with dignity and respect.
It was a friendly place to be.
It was a winning situation for me and I am assuming for them as well.
They were the least hassle I have ever had on buying a bike before.
I have been in sales for many years so I know what to look for and what to avoid.

I think they call this "customer service."
I wish Paul and all of them the best. :niceone:

PS - Sales managers, have your sales people read this post.

[nallac]

shit, you can see in to the future,
whats this weeks lotto numbers???



Went to Henderson Yamaha a few weeks back. I ended up buying a new bike from them. Here's why


They have contacted me after the sale to find out if everything is ok and am I enjoying the new ride.

.

[Ixion]

Hey Vifferman. I do.

..Did the same with Continental Cars.

...

Continental Cars was bad? I have to spend some serious coin on the Alfatoy soon and I've been wondering where's a good place .

[alanzs]

shit, you can see in to the future,
whats this weeks lotto numbers???

I will give you these numbers as a start: 666.....

For the rest of the numbers, call me on my psychic hotline; 0800-trustme. :niceone:

[sidecar bob]

Continental Cars was bad? I have to spend some serious coin on the Alfatoy soon and I've been wondering where's a good place .

Try Gavin at Euro Italian.

[MarkH]

I work hard for my money. I think the people serving me in a shop have an obligation to show professionalism and provide solid advice. If they don't, then I won't go back.

I don't work particularly hard for my money, but I still want a good deal and to buy from decent competent people that can do a good job of convincing me to part with my money.

What a lot of salespeople fail to understand is that while a sale makes them a few bucks, gaining a sale pales in comparison to gaining a customer - every customer you gain will provide you with many sales!

[FROSTY]

How a salesperson acts when all is going good isn't such a reflection on the dealership as how the salesman reacts when things are going BAD.
There is one dealership in ackland I will never buy anything from
Simply because they sold me a bike many years back with a stuffed chain.
The chain came off within 24 hours /100km of purchace.
How they dealt with (failed to deal with) this situation decided that of the 70 odd bikes Ive owned over the last 20 years NONE of em have come from that dealership.
A simple bit of customer service would have made all the difference

[Winston001]

Profit/Markup on bikes


A fair question, and no-one so far seems prepared to answer. IMO it should be around $500 to cover the fixed costs of ownership transfer, advertising, floor space etc, and a variable component of 10 - 20%. Thus a bike that will retail for $9999 would get $8000 offered as a trade in.

This should allow for some haggling on items like new tyres or similar as part of a sales deal. But the shop that relies on bike sales for income will quickly go bust. The real profit is in keeping that customer coming back for services, accessories, or just for a chat while they browse. The shop that has its workshop busy will succeed ahead of one that makes a one time profit off a bike sale, and never sees that customer again.

Why do you think the mark-up on new bikes is so small? Its because the dealer knows that in most cases that customer is locked into using his workshop for the next two years. :niceone:

I agree. Unless a tradein is in really good condition, there will always be time and effort spent getting it to sale room condition. $500 has to be the minimum return.

On top of that, 20 - 35% markup on the tradein price. Its a matter of $$. So a $1000 trade = $200 + $500 = $1700 on the floor, say $1895 to build in a bit of haggle.

$10,000 trade = $2000 + $500 = $12500, say $12,990. That might not be enough in fact if the bike sits there for 3 months, so dealers take a punt on short turnover.

One Ducati I looked at was $12,000, pristine condition, 550km - and didn't sell for 9 months. Felt sorry for the shop cos they are good guys and I think the problem was buyers were put off by the extremely low km. So its a risk reselling bikes.

[Winston001]

Can I put the boot on the other foot.

If you had taken say $300,000 to buy a bike shop. Worked 12 hours a day 6 and (Mt eden MC as an example) 7 days a week what would you want back out of it?


Before risk/return money exists, you have to pay yourself a wage. That needs to be equivalent to what you'd earn working for wages elsewhere in a position of responsibility. As a business owner, you have a lot more to do than if you were only running the workshop or sales. But lets be realistic rather than optimistic - say $60,000 wage. The average single income in NZ is about $45,000.

Next you'd need a risk/return on use of capital on $300,000 so lets say 12.5% = $37,500pa.

You might accept not seeing that as cash in the bank each year if you did well and increased the value of the business to $400,000 in 3- 4 years time.

So ideally you'd have a taxable income of $60,000 + $37,500 = $97,500.

I can tell you that I have seen people spend around $300,000 on a business and earn $45,000. Why do they do it? Independence, pride at being self-employed, lack of other choices, naively believing they are really doing better, there are many many reasons. Ultimately there is a value in owning your own business which isn't measured in money.

[Winston001]

I was going to go through the thread and pick out the nuggets of good advice but farg it.....

The rules for a bike shop are the basically the same for any business:

1. Every customer is the most important person you deal with. Think of them that way and treat them that way. This is similar to "the customer is right" but we know that isn't always true. If later they turn out to lose your respect, you tried. Don't diss them, keep your dignity and just be firm.

2. Business is about relationships. Buyers deal with people they like.

3. The key to good business is service. Deliver more than the customer expects - go the extra mile.

4. Funnily enough business isn't about price. Yes, for a few customers it will be but my experience is that the ones who chisel every cent out of you, are the ones who also complain and moan. You'll never have a happy relationship with them.

5. Everyone loves a bargain. So, if possible make them feel like they have got a great deal by throwing in something for free - or adding value in some context.

6. Try and remember customers names - it makes a person feel special to be recognised when they walk in.

7. Make people feel welcome but don't climb all over them. Kiwis don't like pressure selling.

[sidecar bob]

I can tell you that I have seen people spend around $300,000 on a business and earn $45,000. Why do they do it? Independence, pride at being self-employed, lack of other choices, naively believing they are really doing better, there are many many reasons. Ultimately there is a value in owning your own business which isn't measured in money.

Ive discovered three main types of small business owner, Those that are too clever to work for someone else, Those that are too stupid to work for someone else, & those that are plain dangerous in charge of an invoice book.

[madbikeboy]

Continental Cars was bad? I have to spend some serious coin on the Alfatoy soon and I've been wondering where's a good place .

Worse than bad, appalling. Once I went to drop some coin on a GTV6 (had one in the UK, so thought, fuck it, I'll buy one here), sales guy wouldn't let me drive the one he had (double the mileage of my UK one). Then years later, bought a Audi Quattro there, had loads of problems with their service (and the car for that matter). Next Audi, same story. It had a problem, (simply wouldn't start), so they charged me for a new computer etc etc, $7,000 later, still no go. So, trailered to Giltraps, they got it going in less than 15 minutes. Got about $5000 back from Conti's, but had to throw a tantrum... I've had Italian Auto centre do most of the work on my Alfa's (I've owned a few) and they're really good and reasonably priced, but the last one - I got some fool in Cambridge to do some work - his work was shit, he wiggled out from any responsibility, ended up selling the car out of frustration - went and bought the most vanilla car I could find, figuring that no one could fuck up working on a BMW... But the thing is so boring to drive, I've had it 8 weeks, and I'm going to sell it and buy something new when I get back to NZ...

The car is a grudge buy....

[retro asian]

1. Every customer is the most important person you deal with. Think of them that way and treat them that way. This is similar to "the customer is right" but we know that isn't always true. If later they turn out to lose your respect, you tried. Don't diss them, keep your dignity and just be firm.



This is a very old mentality, if I did this at work I'd never get anything done...
So many timewasters out there...

You gotta show customers respect, but quickly work out if they are possibly going to buy something or not before you put in the hard yards, and give up other better opportunities that might be in the shop.


It's all about the Benjamins...dorra dorra bill yaarrr!

[wickle]

GST has no net cost to a business.

While your business will likely end up with net GST inputs (which you then remit to the government) it doesn't actually cost your business anything. You collect the GST from your customers and pass it on to the government i.e. it isn't coming out of your pocket.
except the time involved in the paper work, making shore your return is right as the Dept wacks a heavy penatly on any mistakes "business are unpiad tax collectors"

[Winston001]

This is a very old mentality, if I did this at work I'd never get anything done...
So many timewasters out there...

You gotta show customers respect, but quickly work out if they are possibly going to buy something or not before you put in the hard yards, and give up other better opportunities that might be in the shop.


Agreed - the point is to understand about treating all customers with respect. Its a tricky balance between spending time with a customer and getting on with getting something achieved.

The trouble is, quiet casually dressed people can easily be dismissed as timewasters. That can be your loss.

[DMNTD]

The trouble is, quiet casually dressed people can easily be dismissed as timewasters. That can be your loss.

Yep...one bought a new 1098S off me on Thursday just been.
Most certainly not a time waster and I have more than a dozen new customers that I would've lost if I viewed them as such

[Gman71]

I went back into the bike shop where I bought a brand new bike 6 weeks beforehand. Salesman loked straight at me, didnt even recognise or acknowledge me. :angry:

Another one came and asked if they could help me. Saying "You already did" dindn't even give him the clue that I had already spent a considerbale amount of dosh with them. He just wandered off.

Very very disappointing form a well known shop that many poeple say nice things about.

Guess where I'm not buying my accessories :finger:

It's not that fucking hard people to remember your customers.

[sidecar bob]

The trouble is, quiet casually dressed people can easily be dismissed as timewasters. That can be your loss.

How can you tell what someone is worth by what they wear or drive?
I can assure you that the '85 Hi Ace im regularly seen pootling around in, wearing jeans & woorkboots is not a great indicator of my net worth.
I kind of use that get up as my "fuckwit detector" if they dont want to deal with me because of that then thats fine, it saves me and them a lot of time.
I am wary of people that feel they need to dress up to gain your respect, and equally wary of people who will not respect you unless you are dressed up.

[tri boy]

"Stealth wealth" is the best wealth indeed.
Keeps the bludgers at bay.

[Ocean1]

"Stealth wealth" is the best wealth indeed.
Keeps the bludgers at bay.

Yeah, but that potato sack and trash bag ensemble is taking the whole thing a bit far dude. :rolleyes:

[geoffc]

1) They all just make me feel like I have some value to them. 2) They are always straight with me. No bullshit. 3) I can wander in and ask a question and get an answer without being made to feel I'm taking up their valuable time. 4) They are all, to fault, just damned nice people.

So I don't mind paying a bit extra.

I up dated my bike a fortnight ago. The dealer I chose to make the transaction with fits the 1 to 4 above. Yes I could have bought & sold on Trademe & saved a few bucks but I know I can expect a fair deal and good service from this guy. He employs like minded people. In the long term I know I am better off.

[retro asian]

The trouble is, quiet casually dressed people can easily be dismissed as timewasters. That can be your loss.

Not about how they look... more about how you ask them the right questions upon first meeting them...

[Jantar]

Not about how they look... more about how you ask them the right questions upon first meeting them...

Many years ago when I was looking at buying my first ever NEW car I went to a Nissan agent (also the Shell service station) in a large North Island town to enquire about a Sentra. He looked me in the eye and said I couldn't afford one. So I went across the road to the Toyota dealer, and bought a new Corolla instead. I still enjoy the look on his face every time I went there to fill up the Corolla.

[SwanTiger]

feeling a little serious today?
why not meet me in person one day
Sure, your shout.

[dpex]

When I go to purchase anything that has a high (or reasonable) value I rock up in my dirty ole track pants. I find sales people leave me alone so I can have a good look around without being hounded.

Love to see their faces when I ask for a discount for cash :2thumbsup

I'm keen to know which outfits you have visited which give discounts for cash on large ticket-items; given that when they can sell you an HP agreement they make good, extra bucks, known as claw-back. So why would any outfit want to drop the claw-back AND give you a discount for cash?

[roadracingoldfart]

Many years ago when I was looking at buying my first ever NEW car I went to a Nissan agent (also the Shell service station) in a large North Island town to enquire about a Sentra. He looked me in the eye and said I couldn't afford one. So I went across the road to the Toyota dealer, and bought a new Corolla instead. I still enjoy the look on his face every time I went there to fill up the Corolla.


I am related to the Martins (of L.V.Martins ) and there was a story told by old L.V. and Allan at parties etc.
L.V had a shop where he excelled in offering the best service and if the service wasnt supplied then the salesman was either fired or docked a commission.
One day a bloke in overalls came into the shop and the staff ignored him and attended to some others in suits and ties.
L.V himself went and served this overalled bloke and sold him a TV and a fridge on payment terms. :yes:
After the shop had emptied a bit L.V asked the senior sales staff that ignored the overall bloke to come to the office. They were sacked on the spot.:gob:
The reason he used .......
The men in suits were just like any customer and as such may have or may not have been able to afford the products in the shop.
The bloke in the overalls was a messy dirty kind of bloke cried the senior sales staff . he could never afford the products.
Nooooo says L.V , he was here at lunch time and he was straight from work where he dresses in overalls and was pushed for time .
The biggest differance for L.V was , that bloke was the only person in the shop that had instant credit in his eyes as he DID have a job and the other suits may not have.Hence he was able to pay. That man actually went on to be one of the best repeat customers the shop ever had.
Never judge a book ( or customer) by its cover.

[Boob Johnson]

I am related to the Martins (of L.V.Martins ) and there was a story told by old L.V. and Allan at parties etc.
L.V had a shop where he excelled in offering the best service and if the service wasnt supplied then the salesman was either fired or docked a commission.
One day a bloke in overalls came into the shop and the staff ignored him and attended to some others in suits and ties.
L.V himself went and served this overalled bloke and sold him a TV and a fridge on payment terms. :yes:
After the shop had emptied a bit L.V asked the senior sales staff that ignored the overall bloke to come to the office. They were sacked on the spot.:gob:
The reason he used .......
The men in suits were just like any customer and as such may have or may not have been able to afford the products in the shop.
The bloke in the overalls was a messy dirty kind of bloke cried the senior sales staff . he could never afford the products.
Nooooo says L.V , he was here at lunch time and he was straight from work where he dresses in overalls and was pushed for time .
The biggest differance for L.V was , that bloke was the only person in the shop that had instant credit in his eyes as he DID have a job and the other suits may not have.Hence he was able to pay. That man actually went on to be one of the best repeat customers the shop ever had.
Never judge a book ( or customer) by its cover.
Damn straight.

I run our place based on Ray Croc's mantra (McDonalds).



"Look after the customers & the business will look after itself"


Seemed to work out good for him :laugh:


But in all seriousness it works & works well. And the reason for that is simple...


There are two types of good customer...

A) referee; someone who will speak well about your business when the topic arises

and

B) an advocate; someone who will GO OUT OF THERE WAY to promote your business.

By "going the xtra mile" with customers you foster more B clients & it doesn't have to be big. Someone mentioned it in an above post, understate & over prove, spot on :niceone:

What is complete BS is the fallacy that the number one thing the general public want is the best price, that is complete & utter rubbish & anyone with any decent amount of marketing experience will know it.


In terms of which is a better way to run a business? There is no single answer. It depends on who is running the business & what they want from it. For some it is better for them to have less work but better profit margins, different strokes for different folks, doesn't mean they are running their business badly.

Im no bloody expert, that's just my personal view on it based on running a few businesses & being on the front lines of dealing with the general public all my life.

[MarkH]

I had a good retail experience yesterday.

I went into Bivouac in Silvia Park to look at sleeping bags & bed rolls. The salesman told me that if I was in no big hurry I could come back in a couple of weeks to buy the sleeping bag and save 25% on the sale that will be on. That was damn good of him and because of that I will definitely put that store on the top of my list when I want camping gear. The sleeping bag I am looking at is $450 with down fill for smaller rolled-up size to make it easier to take on the scooter. 25% off is $112 in savings - well worth having!

While I was there I did spend a couple of hundy on a good bed roll - I'm a soft bastard and I value my comfort, even in a tent!

[Hitcher]

I run our place based on Ray Croc's mantra (McDonalds).

That would be Ray Kroc of McDonald's?

[Boob Johnson]

That would be Ray Kroc of McDonald's?
ZOMG!!! It's the grammar police run!!!!





ps: can you infract yourself for being pathetic enough to post nothing but "oh you made a minor grammatical error & the spelling of that last name was slightly incorrect even though we knew exactly what & who you were talking about"?

[Hitcher]

ps: can you infract yourself for being pathetic enough to post nothing but "oh you made a minor grammatical error & the spelling of that last name was slightly incorrect even though we knew exactly what & who you were talking about"?

A pedant's work is never done! People may have wrongly assumed that Ray Croc invented the eponymous synthetic footware. Think of the children!

[madbikeboy]

I am related to the Martins (of L.V.Martins ) and there was a story told by old L.V. and Allan at parties etc.
L.V had a shop where he excelled in offering the best service and if the service wasnt supplied then the salesman was either fired or docked a commission.
One day a bloke in overalls came into the shop and the staff ignored him and attended to some others in suits and ties.
L.V himself went and served this overalled bloke and sold him a TV and a fridge on payment terms. :yes:
After the shop had emptied a bit L.V asked the senior sales staff that ignored the overall bloke to come to the office. They were sacked on the spot.:gob:


Years ago, while still a poor student (7 years worth of that) I was slam-dunking radios for a living. A guy walks in, dreadlocks and no shoes, and our sales manager (old English snob) refuses to serve him. So, I sat and chatted with him instead. He wanted to build a good high end system, so he asked what I'd do if I had an old Merc. So, I spent 45 minutes drawing a diagram and building a good system that would rearrange his hair and get old people shaking their heads as he drove past. He thanked me, and walked out.

Next day he walked back in with a black rubbish sack full of crumpled notes.

And it was a BIG fucking bag to afford what I had drawn up.

Good times.

[FROSTY]

Just wondering guys. Given we actually have a fair old range of views here.
If someone is in your shop and demonstrably wants to be left alone. what dya feel you should do?

You want to offer customer service -but how??

[madbikeboy]

Just wondering guys. Given we actually have a fair old range of views here.
If someone is in your shop and demonstrably wants to be left alone. what dya feel you should do?

You want to offer customer service -but how??

Ackowledge them, a smile or something. You're a professional sales person which means you have a Master's Degree in reading people.

[Shaun]

Ackowledge them, a smile or something. You're a professional sales person which means you have a Master's Degree in reading people.



AGREE, always say HI some how, even with the KIWI male Wink!

[FROSTY]

How can you tell what someone is worth by what they wear or drive?
I can assure you that the '85 Hi Ace im regularly seen pootling around in, wearing jeans & woorkboots is not a great indicator of my net worth.
I kind of use that get up as my "fuckwit detector" if they dont want to deal with me because of that then thats fine, it saves me and them a lot of time.
I am wary of people that feel they need to dress up to gain your respect, and equally wary of people who will not respect you unless you are dressed up.
Yea I'm hearing ya dude.
BUT if ya walked into a shop selling $30000 bikes and looked at the most expensive bike there Briefly
Your first comment to the salesman was "yea I wanna take this one for a ride'
Can you understand that the salesman might wanna ask you a few qualifying questions before haning over a set of keys?

[Quasievil]

If someone is in your shop and demonstrably wants to be left alone. what dya feel you should do?

You want to offer customer service -but how??

You say "I will be (wherever)....... if you need any help just let me know"

And then leave them alone whilst keeping a subtle eye on them incase they give you the "Help me" Glance.

[Winston001]

Yea I'm hearing ya dude.
BUT if ya walked into a shop selling $30,000 bikes and looked at the most expensive bike there - briefly
Your first comment to the salesman was "yea I wanna take this one for a ride'
Can you understand that the salesman might wanna ask you a few qualifying questions before handing over a set of keys?

Agreed, customer attention doesn't equal stupidity. Tough call though, many bikers can look rough but have the dosh. I guess you need a policy set up beforehand to fall back upon if you are doubtful, something like 'the demonstrator model is out/not arrived yet...." Hard to know the right answer, guess it comes down to experience. Its a business risk.

[wysper]

I've had more than one shop owner tell me that both buy and sell prices are dictated by the principle. That's why they're often more flexible on extras than price. If that's substantially correct then a) it's potentially price fixing, wot's marginally illegal, and b) profit is manageable only in terms of overheads...





I wonder if this is more along the lines of most importers have RRPs. So most stores would stick fairly close to the RRP.



Good service and "an experience" if free though :niceone:

And while it is free, it is what keeps the customers coming back. Well this one anyway :)




2. Business is about relationships. Buyers deal with people they like.



4. Funnily enough business isn't about price. Yes, for a few customers it will be but my experience is that the ones who chisel every cent out of you, are the ones who also complain and moan. You'll never have a happy relationship with them.



Good points, and having been in retail, if I was still there, I would let the customer that was really trying to screw me on price walk out the door. They always come back to bite you and end up costing you. I am not talking about the customer that is just trying to get a good deal.


And like it has been mentioned before, how you deal with something when it goes wrong is a very good indication of things. Sometimes when you are working on the coalface you can forget that the guy with the problem/issue is not the one to blame. You can get too close to things and forget there is a guy who has often as not dropped his/her hard earned coin on something that now isn't working or performing as it should.

I know sometimes I forget that, and often have to stop and put myself in their shoes and reasses how I am reacting. Fix their problem, put things right for them.

Easy to say, sometimes hard to do.

[MadDuck]

I'm keen to know which outfits you have visited which give discounts for cash on large ticket-items; given that when they can sell you an HP agreement they make good, extra bucks, known as claw-back. So why would any outfit want to drop the claw-back AND give you a discount for cash?

Quite simple Mr Simple and I wont go on here and name any place I have been into to do this for obvious reasons. They sell me an HP they have to pay commission. They have do do a mountain of paperwork......picture any clearer yet?

[bully]

Yep I get it all day every day. Generally I sell new bikes at window price but discount the gear they may want. Profit margins in new bikes are a heck of a lot lower than what most would realise.
Second hand bikes...depends....if they are trading...window price. Cash/finance...then we can talk creative finance.

Some people forget that lights must be turned on,wages paid ...same with a power load of bills!

Good service and "an experience" if free though :niceone:

i came to your shop, you let me test ride all the bikes it was great! but like you said no discount on the bike, only the gear.
so i went elsewhere got discounted on the gear and got the bike for 19000 instead of 22500... what would you do?
for me apart from a new bike because its a big cost, its all about the service over the price, within reason.

[toycollector10]

I haven't read all the posts but here's my two-bobs worth.

Who would want to be in the business today anyway. Joe Schmuck walks in off the street looking for a dooferlater for his Shagmaster and gets quoted $169.95 so he says "Eff of, I can get that on eBay for $29.95," and on and on it goes.

The internet has changed the bike and parts retail scene totally. Except for servicing of your bike.

Want a Ducati 999? Will you go to your local dealer first off or surf TardMe until you see something you like at a price you like?

So I say Hats Off to any dealer still in business. I'm bloody sure it's a hard road to hoe and do any of them really make a LOT of money out of what they do?