Safety of scooter riders [Archive]

rocketman1

25th October 2008, 20:09

Just about got taken out by a car whilst riding a scooter.
It would not have happened if I was on my road bike.
Heres what happened, being the kind and considerate guy I am I was riding on or near the cycle lane on the left of the road to let the cars overtake me, as alot of scooter riders courteously do.
However on approaching an intersection, (I was on the straight) I made eye contact with the cager that was stopped await to turn right, he was giving way , so far all good, then just as was nearing his car another cager came up inside him to turn left (ie. going the same way I was) he didnt see me, purely because I was a bit close to the side of the road and obscured by the car turning right.
Got it so far? He was stopping but had pulled out a little in front of the car turning right, to give himself a better veiw. Thats where I , In the cycle lane nearly went over his bonnet, it was a close thing but we missed, only just.
Moral of this story if you ride a scooter demand your part of the centre of the road at intersections, DONT get caught out like I did.
If I was in the centre of my part of the road, like on road bike, all would have been sweet.
Cyclist beware the same could happen to them.
Yeah as some of them travel faster than scooters with alot less protection.

maybe

25th October 2008, 21:00

Yeah I reckon unless you are in an area with a speed limit higher than 70ks which a small scoot most probably shouldnt be, put your safety first no good being an injured polite scooter rider.:mellow:

Sellout

25th October 2008, 21:50

I know what you mean. With the RZ getting a gearbox rebuild, I am relying on my Nifty to commute to work and as it only hits 50kph when it feels like it, I spend a lot of time in the cycle lane. But I always always always get into the CENTRE of whatever lane I'm using at an intersection.

Mate of mine had a very similar experience to the above, except he was collected by the 4x4 "nosing" out! End result?? Broken pelvis, dislocated shoulder, broken fingers, eye socket, nose and long ugly recovery time!

You gotta OWN the road when scooting! Even more so than when on a road bike IMHO.

ital916

26th October 2008, 06:38

Pogo2

26th October 2008, 06:51

I pay registration, WOF etc, etc so will use "my" space on the road. If they (cagers) want to overtake, let em. Being courteous on the road just doesn't cut out there as everyone is out for themselves. Even with a "big" scoot some drivers will try and push you into the gutter. It's been echoed here before " drive like their all out to kill you" and you just might survive.

CookMySock

26th October 2008, 07:04

Scroters are dangerous!

slimjim

26th October 2008, 09:12

"Demand"..? huh its your right its not a demand....... ride more safely...period..its not a fucking pushbike...

PrincessBandit

26th October 2008, 15:53

I agree with Dririder87, courteous riding doesn't mean being a doormat (or ending up as roadkill). YOUR safety must come first, even if it means that the car behind you can't exceed the speed limit but wants to. By all means pull over to let things past if you can see you're creating a cue, but I reckon being Mr. Nice Guy is too easily abused (by all other road users, not just cars). If you are in a 50k zone, then tough shit for others who want to do their usual 65 or whatever.

FJRider

26th October 2008, 16:03

my 2c, scooter or bike if you have a motorised two wheeler stay in the right hand side of your lane and OWN it. I hate seeing scooter riders riding down the left hand side of the lane. Its a nice place to ride through all the crap that accumulates on the road, as well as puddles of surface water in the rain leaves etc.

50cc or 2000cc, the lane is yours, if your going way to slow, pull over and let people pass or use a bicycle in the cycle lane, not like you'll be going any slower.

The lane is yours .... in 50 km zones, straight up the middle. stay on the right hand side and some dork will try to pass on your left.

Ride it like you stole it... my 2 cents worth

pritch

26th October 2008, 20:37

The replies suggest not all of the writers actually ride mopeds.

There are times when to stay in the middle of the lane would require one to be a totally inconsiderate arsehole. There are enough of those driving around this town already, so there are places where I do keep to the left of the lane, and other places where I use the cycle lane.

Equally there are places where that would just confuse the numbnuts, so I stay in the middle or in yet other places to the right of the lane.

Then there's the places where I use the footpath, pedestrian underpasses, hotel carparks, whatever...

It depends on circumstances.

CookMySock

26th October 2008, 20:48

There are times when to stay in the middle of the lane would require one to be a totally inconsiderate arsehole.Stiff titty. Don't move over if it compromises your safety. Ever. If I'm in the middle of someones(sic) lane, and they want to pass, the LAW is on my side and they can fucking wait their turn. I will let them through when I feel safe doing it, IF and when I feel like it.

there are places where I do keep to the left of the lane, and other places where I use the cycle lane.Absolutely. Voluntarily share your road when YOU WANT TO, not when someone else wants you to.

Steve

pritch

27th October 2008, 08:59

The two places where I normally move left are when there is an uphill start from the lights. With my fat arse on it the moped accelerates very slowly...
When I have enough pace I will move to the middle of the lane.

The other thing you have to watch like a hawk is when passing parked cars make bloody sure there isn't some halfwit preparing to open his car door just as you come along...

sinned

28th October 2008, 18:48

Caging into Wellington each day gives me plenty of time to watch the practices and habits of the growing number of scooter riders. I high proportion of them have obviously never considered the risk they pose to themselves. There are three areas of noticeable difference compared to the also large number of motorcyclists:
1) Riding close to the left hand side. Along Thorndon Quay just next to angle parked cars and allowing traffic to pass them!
2) Following too close. Too close to find the front brake - if they know what it is for? I seldom see motorcyclists following close - they must know or have learn t something.
3) Only protective gear being the helmet and many with open face helmets. Nice fashion clothes and wind breakers.

pritch

29th October 2008, 09:40

2) Following too close. Too close to find the front brake - if they know what it is for?
3) Only protective gear being the helmet .

Those are pretty much standard observations here as well. Particularly the schoolkids...

Macros

2nd November 2008, 13:10

I always always always get into the CENTRE of whatever lane I'm using at an intersection.

You gotta OWN the road when scooting! Even more so than when on a road bike IMHO.

Yeah I tried that today. Ended up getting passed 4 times on the left hand side on a one lane road. I even got the fingers =\

portokiwi

2nd November 2008, 13:22

Center of your lane..... safest place to be.

MidnightMike

2nd November 2008, 14:03

The lane is yours .... in 50 km zones, straight up the middle. stay on the right hand side and some dork will try to pass on your left.

Exactly, Ive had it happen to me before by a car full of fuckwits who decided they wanted to do about 65 down the cycle lane - I was just pootling....

Then I smoked past them at 90+ :scooter:

Screw having a 50cc scooter TBH - Id rather ride a bicycle.

MarkH

15th November 2008, 12:01

Screw having a 50cc scooter TBH - Id rather ride a bicycle.

I have to agree - looking at the Suzuki prices it seems that the 125cc is not all that much dearer than the 50cc brand new. For city commuting I would rather cruise comfortably at 60kph on a 125cc than struggle to beat 40kph on a 50cc. I think it is much safer when you are able to keep up with the flow of the traffic! With various 60kph & 70kph zones around the place a 125cc has even more of an advantage over a 50cc.

My scooter is better again, but it costs a lot more than the 125cc and if you don't ride on the open road or motorway you don't really need bigger than a 125cc.

vindy500

15th November 2008, 12:39

my girlfriends 50cc suzuki sj-50 happily goes over 60..

but remember, its a limit not a target! :yes:

vindy500

15th November 2008, 12:41

I have to agree - looking at the Suzuki prices it seems that the 125cc is not all that much dearer than the 50cc brand new. .

sure but then theres the hassle of getting a whole new licence which most people who just want a scooter dont want to go through

MarkH

15th November 2008, 13:32

sure but then theres the hassle of getting a whole new licence which most people who just want a scooter dont want to go through

Oh yeah - for the non-bikers that just want a cheap commute without the effort of pedal power then the 50cc machines are OK. They also need no WOF and the reg is cheap as. But the 125cc machines are usable in more different speed zones - even 100kph (though I wouldn't recommend 125cc for regular open road usage).

Basically if you don't mind paying the $60 or whatever it is and doing the scratchy test to get a 6L license then the 125cc scooters will give you much more than a 50cc for bugger all more money. I think the Suzuki 50cc sell for around $2.2K and the 125cc for around $2.7K - I know which I would rather ride.

Fatt Max

15th November 2008, 18:16

my 2c, scooter or bike if you have a motorised two wheeler stay in the right hand side of your lane and OWN it. I hate seeing scooter riders riding down the left hand side of the lane. Its a nice place to ride through all the crap that accumulates on the road, as well as puddles of surface water in the rain leaves etc.

50cc or 2000cc, the lane is yours, if your going way to slow, pull over and let people pass or use a bicycle in the cycle lane, not like you'll be going any slower.

Great advice and attitude,

Main thing is that you are ok and avoided any damage.

I did 3 years on a CV50 before upgrading and still finding the same things. You have every right to be on the road just as long as you are safe and careful.

The cager, unfortunatley, is so typical

McJim

15th November 2008, 21:47

I have an AD50. When I ride to work I own my lane...in the same way I learned to own the lane for the 2 decades of city centre cycling I did in Glasgow and London. If you ride apologetically in the gutter no one will notice you and they will kill you. If you own the lane they might get a bit irritated but at least it shows that they spotted you and you get to live longer (there's also the fun bit where the aggreived driver assumes you are a spotty 15 year old and calls you out for a fight for owning your lane - the expression as the blood drains from his face as I stand up and look down on him is priceless!)

YAMASAKI

27th November 2008, 12:13

Being a recent scooter convert I've started noticing all the appalling habits mentioned in previous posts.... which got me wondering why is it that you can ride a scooter/moped on only a car learners license??? cars and bikes are two completely different vehicles, whether they only go 50kph or faster, there are so many more factors that the majority of scooter riders don't even take into consideration, because they haven't been tought.
Surely it makes sence to have it a requirement that you do a scooter specific course/handling certificate similar to what you do to get your bike leaners...?

samgab

28th November 2008, 07:30

I've been riding a Honday Today 50cc around for a few months, until getting an FXR150 a couple of days ago.
Anyway, I got sick and tired of people pulling out right in front of me on the scooter all the time; seriously, left right and centre, they were pulling out right in front of me, from driveways, roundabouts from the left, give ways, etc. This despite the hi-viz/reflective vest I always wear.

So, I ended up riding around everywhere, all the time with the little scooter headlight set to high beam. I decided that at night if anyone flashed their lights at me I'd flick back to low beam -- but no-one ever did. I guess the scooter light on high beam isn't dazzlingly bright, but certainly are more visible in both daytime and night. I didn't seem to have the problem of being pulled out in front of once I started the high beam experiment.

Being VISIBLE is the key thing when you're on a scooter. If the other motorist has seen you and knows you're there, they won't (usually) intentionally knock you off, the near misses usually happen when they just failed to see you.

Oh, and btw, the Honda Today 50 cruises quite nicely almost everywhere at between 50 and 60 kph. I use bus lanes when they exist, and the centre of the lane when there's no bus lane and it's a 50kph zone. If I'm going 59 and it's a 50 zone and someone is impatient to get past, too bad IMHO. They can pass when it's safe to do so, just like they would if I was in a car.

CookMySock

28th November 2008, 08:07

I got sick and tired of people pulling out right in front of me on the scooter all the time [....] So, I ended up riding around everywhere, all the time with the little scooter headlight set to high beam. I decided that at night if anyone flashed their lights at me I'd flick back to low beam -- but no-one ever did.How is this working out for you ?

Steve

samgab

28th November 2008, 08:22

How is this working out for you ?

You mean the high beam thing? Well, no one ever seemed to mind. You know how in a car if you forget your lights are on high beam oncoming vehicles flash their lights, well no-one ever did that, so I continued to leave the lights on high beam. Also, far fewer people pulled out in front of me. I concluded that it just increased my visibility, but without being a nuisance to other motorists.

Now I'm riding a "proper" motorcycle, so my riding style has changed completely. I can go with the flow of the traffic even up hills etc, so I match the speed of the other vehicles in the lane, and it's not such an issue.
I don't leave the high beam on with the FXR.
BUT I would REALLY like to get some brighter bulbs for the FXR. So if anyone knows of any??? The factory ones are 25/25W and not halogen, so not very bright...

Badjelly

28th November 2008, 08:43

Oh yeah - for the non-bikers that just want a cheap commute without the effort of pedal power then the 50cc machines are OK.

OK in the sense that they don't know any better. I myself would never ride one. (Well, never say never, but ..). Having commuted for a total of a couple of decades by bicycle, scooter and smallish motorbike, I have a pretty good idea of the risks.

YAMASAKI

28th November 2008, 08:59

yeah, coming from a biking background I think i also have a better idea of the risks involved with scooterising. But the majority of scooter riders i've seen lately treat the road the same as they would if driving a cage. I can see the registration fees going up a lot in the next couple of years thanks to the ACC fees (driven up by untrained drivers having avoidable accidents), let alone riders thinking that high heals and short skirts give adequate protection at 50kph.

CookMySock

28th November 2008, 09:34

You mean the high beam thing? Well, no one ever seemed to mind. You know how in a car if you forget your lights are on high beam oncoming vehicles flash their lights, well no-one ever did that, so I continued to leave the lights on high beam. Also, far fewer people pulled out in front of me. I concluded that it just increased my visibility, but without being a nuisance to other motorists.

Now I'm riding a "proper" motorcycle, so my riding style has changed completely. I can go with the flow of the traffic even up hills etc, so I match the speed of the other vehicles in the lane, and it's not such an issue.
I don't leave the high beam on with the FXR.
BUT I would REALLY like to get some brighter bulbs for the FXR. So if anyone knows of any??? The factory ones are 25/25W and not halogen, so not very bright...I ask, as I leave my lights on fullbeam the whole time, and really have no problems with people pulling out in front of me. I'll dip them at night, or on request, but as you say - very few requests. It's pretty clear to me I am much better off with my lights up.

I would take the bulb into Repco or Supercheap, and ask them about it. Quite likely they will have all sorts of suggestions. Be careful using a much much more powerful bulb like a 55/100 as you will almost certainly damage the wiring or melt the headlamp unit. Alternatively, try to find a HID conversion for it, as the bulbs run very cool and draw only 35watts, and are MEAN bright. Just make sure theres no other electronics nearby as the HID inverters seem to EMP everything within kui of themselves - nasty.

Steve

klingon

28th November 2008, 09:35

I cringe when I'm riding my bike and come across a scooterist hugging the gutter and looking all nervous. I want to give them a hug and invite them out into the rest of the lane. It's an interesting response because the exact things that make me feel sorry for them and all protective towards them, are the things that make other drivers all aggressive and mean.

A scooter rider riding on the left looks small, vulnerable, hesitant and they look like a victim. Some people respond to that by being extra kind to them, and some people become extra mean. :bash:

So if you do need to ride on the left of the lane (up a hill or whatever) make absolutely sure that the rest of your non-verbal signals say "I'm a confident rider. I'm choosing to ride on the left - but if you try to bully me I'll rip your head off!"

CookMySock

28th November 2008, 09:47

A scooter rider riding on the left looks small, vulnerable, hesitant and they look like a victim. Some people respond to that by being extra kind to them, and some people become extra mean. :bash:That is because some people are humans, and some people are animals.

So if you do need to ride on the left of the lane (up a hill or whatever) make absolutely sure that the rest of your non-verbal signals say "I'm a confident rider. I'm choosing to ride on the left - but if you try to bully me I'll rip your head off!"Yeh. ;) Or just ride everywhere looking like you are going to kill everyone. :hug:

Steve

Tank

28th November 2008, 10:43

I ask, as I leave my lights on fullbeam the whole time, and really have no problems with people pulling out in front of me. I'll dip them at night, or on request, but as you say - very few requests. It's pretty clear to me I am much better off with my lights up.

I would take the bulb into Repco or Supercheap, and ask them about it. Quite likely they will have all sorts of suggestions. Be careful using a much much more powerful bulb like a 55/100 as you will almost certainly damage the wiring or melt the headlamp unit. Alternatively, try to find a HID conversion for it, as the bulbs run very cool and draw only 35watts, and are MEAN bright. Just make sure theres no other electronics nearby as the HID inverters seem to EMP everything within kui of themselves - nasty.

Steve

Its been asked in many threads and you have never answered DB. How the hell does someone IN FRONT of you going the same way get you to dip your lights ????

Slightly different on a scoot (being that they are only there a few seconds) - but assuming you are travelling at the speed of traffic - there is nothing more annoying than having a fool with their lights on full sitting behind you. Its very inconsiderate riding. esp when you have upgraded to something like HIDS?

Would you find it acceptable if someone did it behind your wife if she was riding?

OutForADuck

28th November 2008, 13:46

Personally I think if I watched a video of myself on my Madass I'd vote for removing me in the interests of public safety rather than beingworried about cars being a safety issue for me!!! :crazy:

MarkH

29th November 2008, 11:46

OK in the sense that they don't know any better.

Well I did say for non-bikers.

But honestly I do recommend to anyone that asks my opinion that they get their learners and buy a 125cc scooter instead for the luxury of more speed & power. They may then get keen and another biker is born!

50cc scooters are just too limited in their usefulness in my opinion, not really up to the task for anything other than 50kph zones.

BTW:
400cc scooters are up to the task of riding from Auckland to Christchurch in one day, then down to Winchester for a bike rally, then Winchester to Palmerston North in one day, then back to Auckland the next day. 2400kms in a 5 day period.

Dave Lobster

30th November 2008, 07:50

BTW:
400cc scooters are up to the task of riding from Auckland to Christchurch in one day, then down to Winchester for a bike rally, then Winchester to Palmerston North in one day, then back to Auckland the next day. 2400kms in a 5 day period.

And if anyone wants one.. I'm going to be selling mine soon.

SARGE

30th November 2008, 08:20

the Mrs. (the General) got taken off on a roundabout 6 months ago.. nearly twice since..

when i was teaching her to ride, i would follow about 50m behind and saw some asshat aim for her and try to take her out..

i caught the clown..

he wont do that again soon

MisterD

30th November 2008, 09:20

Its been asked in many threads and you have never answered DB. How the hell does someone IN FRONT of you going the same way get you to dip your lights ????

I thought that was what rear fog lights were for - unfortunately my NZ new Forester doesn't have the buggers...

Dave Lobster

30th November 2008, 09:29

Yet, if you live out west, the front ones are on PERMANENTLY. Odd..

Ptur5054

24th January 2009, 12:36

I have to agree with all your comments. Especially the point about safety clothing. It was a hot day to day in Dunedin (yes we get them) I was tempted not to put on my Joe Rocket jacket but I did and must say I felt a bit of a dork especially when I saw at least three jokers in shorts, jandels and tee shirts. Then they weren't going to be doing 90 up the motorway. I just hope they don't come off, even at 50k they would at least have some very nasty scrapes.

Danae

12th March 2009, 17:37

I wind through the domain on my way home from uni in auckland, and I was following behind a van that was behind a scooter. This van was obviously tired of keeping to the speed limit and actually crossed the double yellow lines AROUND A CURVE to pass this poor scooter. She nearly jumped off out of fright.
Unfortunately (especially up hills) cars like to follow as closely as they can cos, I dunno, maybe they want to push you up the hill. I just stick to the center of MY lane and let the jackass behind me boil in his impatience and ignorance.

Dave Lobster

12th March 2009, 19:27

I just stick to the center of MY lane and let the jackass behind my boil in his impatiance and ignorance.

And he/she'll take that frustration out on someone.. are you sure it wont be you?

Bowden

12th March 2009, 19:58

I just got a 1996 Honda dio 50cc scooter today, my old scooter was unfortunatly crashed by a mate, so today was my first actual riding experience, what a rush! For someone who's never ridden before it's an eye opening experience, but the car drivers(cages?) are as bad as I've imagined!

Obviously not all of them, you get bad appleS on every tree etc, but who gave all those bad apples drivers licenses!, I'm not new to driving, and I've had my full for around 5 years now so I'm not new to the road game, but it seems if you ride a scooter, everyone thinks your a young teen with no idea of road rules, luckily the dio does 65-70 top speed, and it's just had an overhaul, new rings etc so it has a fair amount of get up and go, so I take off and drive center lane, driving to the speed of traffic, even at 65 some idiots still want to overtake so maybe these individual drivers are just impatient?

XRVrider

23rd March 2009, 19:57

Hi. Finished restoring an old Jawa 50 scooter recently for the wife to ride to work. We didnt have it going too fast to begin with so assholes were passing her up the inside and all sorts of crap. We made an expansion chamber and tuned her up a bit and shes now faster and she has less hassle. I am too big for this bike but test ride it a bit and Ive had cars passing me when Im doing 50kms just 20 cms away on a 2 lane one way street... theres a whole other empty lane beside me... dumb bstards.

Now I have couriered on motorbikes and bicycles in London for long periods, so I dont stand for silly shit, so slap their cars and give them the fingers... everyone who puts my safety at risk gets this treatment, as I would expect the same if I did it to them. Many interesting incidents in London, one or 2 ugly ones but 99% of the time you just get out of the way of everything, but jeez NZ car drivers are some of the least considerate anywhere. So I say stay in the middle and keep 2 fingers over the front brake and expect the worst. LIGHTS ON. ;-)

Cheers all.

Flange

30th March 2009, 20:16

Some thoughts on the preceding few pages:

I wonder how many of those scooter and motorbike riders bitching about cars following hard on their tail and crowding them out in their lanes, have been guilty of following cars too close and lane splitting themselves ? Bikers tend to be their own worst enemies in this respect and I'm well aware that some four wheeler drivers hassle bikers out of a misplaced sense of retribution for previous inconsiderate treatment by bikers. Now would be a pretty good time to start breaking the cycle.

By and large I agree with the concept of riding in the centre of the lane, even on a slow scooter. Usually, to do so is the lesser of evils. But in doing so it's real important to be as considerate to following traffic as possible and to make it as easy as possible for them to get past, without putting yourself in danger.

I'm going through a pretty interesting experience at present in that my wife began her riding career just four months ago. She rides a SYM 250 so it's well capable of cruising faster than the open road limits. I started riding in 1963 so I've had plenty of time to develop a very acute sense of what's safe and what's not on a motorbike. Believe me, it is a seriously scary thing to watch someone close going through the learning process. THE MOST DANGEROUS SITUATIONS WHICH JOCELYN GETS INTO INVOLVE HER TRAVELLING SLOWER THAN THE TRAFFIC STREAM ! Anybody travelling slower than the traffic is in danger. Period. The greater the speed differential, the greater the danger. Speed doesn't kill, speed differential does.

As for lights on high beam, well, if your lights are so feeble that oncoming bikes and cars are NOT pissed off by them, then do yourself a favour and get the unroadworthy piece of s**t off the road. Roll on warrants of fitness for mopeds. Roll on too a requirement for handling skills testing for moped riders.

Further to the lights on high beam thing, studies have indicated (sorry about the unsubstantiated statement but Google it if you're curious) that high beam lights spoil distance perception for oncoming riders and drivers, moreso when the bike has twin headlights, tending to make others think you are further away than you really are. You might just be doing yourself a dis-service by riding with lights on high, most particularly in poor lighting conditions or in the rain.

Finally, it's a fact of life that cars and large four wheel drives DO have right of way over bikes by virtue of the fact that the rider will always come off much worse in a crash. By all means do try claiming your rights as a tax paying road user within the rules laid down in the Road Code, just be prepared to pay the price in pain, mutilation or even death for doing so.

Cheers
Flange

McJim

30th March 2009, 20:20

I've spent a couple of decades cycling through cities with populations greater than New Zealand's total.

The rule that has kept me alive is OWN YOUR LANE. You are a vehicle and you are entitled to your own lane. This goes for nifty fifties too even though they are slower than pushies. Anyone that gave me shit got called out and found out just how hard a cyclist capable of 50kph+ speeds can kick.

Nuff said.

UberRhys

31st March 2009, 08:10

chasio

1st April 2009, 13:49

carver

1st April 2009, 19:47