Multis vs V-twins

[Winston001]

I took a 2006 Kawasaki Z750 for a squirt this afternoon. It has more horses than my Ducati but a slightly slower quarter mile. Very nice bike, smooth, light steering, handled well, responsive.....but....

:zzzz::zzzz:

I don't get it. I really don't. I understand how reliable and powerful the Japanese multis are. They pretty much do anything the average rider will want plus a lot more. But, for me, they just lack the "Wow" factor that a V-twin or indeed a V-four has. I guess its torque - or maybe just my fevered imagination. :doctor:

Obviously I'm in the minority because there aren't many Jap V-twins, which suggests their buying public like multis much more.

[NighthawkNZ]

Obviously I'm in the minority because there aren't many Jap V-twins, which suggests their buying public like multis much more.

yeah I have a Jap V-Twin... but I won't be going back to a inline... there is something about them... and I can't put my finger on it yet...

[Winston001]

yeah I have a Jap V-Twin... but I won't be going back to a inline... there is something about them... and I can't put my finger on it yet...


......and yours is rather special n'est pas??!! Not many bikes that can be spotted clear across a rally at midnight without even the key turned...:msn-wink:

[Boob Johnson]

Having just moved back to an inline 4 from a jap V twin (TLS) there are a few things I miss. The torque being the obvious and the most missed, that deep gutteral growl from the Yoshi's is absolutely intoxicating & something that I just couldn't ever get sick of listening to. So yeah I hear ya on that one. I rode an 06 VTR thou today, coming off an afternoon on the ZX7R to that was bloody horrible, THAT v twin I would happily take a wide berth around. The riding position was horrible & two of us that tried it (we were bike swapping on the way home) both had the same complaint.....after a really short distance the weight threw the wrists & forearms was very noticeable, the riding position just didn't feel right.

[NighthawkNZ]

I rode an 06 VTR thou today, coming off an afternoon on the ZX7R to that was bloody horrible, THAT v twin I would happily take a wide berth around. The riding position was horrible & two of us that tried it (we were bike swapping on the way home) both had the same complaint.....after a really short distance the weight threw the wrists & forearms was very noticeable, the riding position just didn't feel right.

Thats what I found when I took a tls for a test ride... thats why I went for the VTR i found it way more comfortable...

But the torque, the vtwin sound, does grow on yah...

[Bonez]

Obviously I'm in the minority because there aren't many Jap V-twins, which suggests their buying public like multis much more.Basicly comes down to what floats your boat.

Most bikes on last fridays run were V-twins.

[DMNTD]

I've had a number of inlines and loved them however it's the sound of a Twin being "utilised" in the higher revs is pure porn!
When I jumped from my last ZX10 to the Superduke(with Akro's) I found myself not only enjoying the hoonage of the beast but due it its divine melody I was also enjoying the slower speeds too which at that point was exactly what I was after...an all round bliss.

[fatzx10r]

i like twin's and four's, owned both. but i really liken the top end power of the four's :headbang: not that ya can use most the time

[CookMySock]

I always liked the revv-out scream of the inline, but with the twin every little twist of the wrist pays immediate dividends.. Around town high rpm scream draws a lot of the wrong type of attention very quickly so its almost unusable, whereas the broad brrrrap of the twin is tolerated.

Steve

[James Deuce]

If you're going to compare apples with anchovies you're just going to end up with cleanish teeth and an oily residue on your chin.

[beyond]

It's all about low end torque I reckon for you twin ravers :)

Now, I keep saying it but you have to take a well set up GSX1400 for a run and your thoughts about inline 4's will be dramatically altered.

Oh, there's a summer fest special on them. Limited edition Suzuki colours and black uns for $12995 with Yoshi exhaust. Beat that deal!!!

:) :) :) :)

You get your vtwin kick with the inline 4 sound and where most bikes are getting the snot revved out of them you can idle along nicely and never change gear if you don't want to. I personally like changing gears to stay on the torque wave and they sound rather noice with a single short can :)

[James Deuce]

It's all about low end torque I reckon for you twin ravers :)


Nah, they're snobs and they're just sneering at the lower classes and their cheap transport.

[Owl]

:Oi:What about the triples? Sheesh!

[CookMySock]

It's all about low end torque I reckon for you twin ravers :)sure the torque is one thing, but its more the fattt brrrappp, and crackle-crackle-pop sounds and the big vibration levels that I enjoy.

DB

[martybabe]

It's all about low end torque I reckon for you twin ravers :)

Now, I keep saying it but you have to take a well set up GSX1400 for a run and your thoughts about inline 4's will be dramatically altered.

Oh, there's a summer fest special on them. Limited edition Suzuki colours and black guns for $12995 with Yoshi exhaust. Beat that deal!!!

:) :) :) :)

You get your v twin kick with the inline 4 sound and where most bikes are getting the snot revved out of them you can idle along nicely and never change gear if you don't want to. I personally like changing gears to stay on the torque wave and they sound rather nice with a single short can :)

Of course he's quite right you know, an inline four with monster torque and character, not similar too but equal to that of a V. Best of both worlds. Can't knock the twins though a very engaging ride, not as bland as your average inlf.


:Oi:What about the triples? Sheesh!

XS 750 Yamaha you mean of course. :shifty:

[Boob Johnson]

Thats what I found when I took a tls for a test ride... thats why I went for the VTR i found it way more comfortable...

But the torque, the vtwin sound, does grow on yah...
wow, interesting how different a feel people can have isnt it or maybe its expectation after riding something so different? I dunno. I just find the VTR lacks soul & horse power of course. The drop from 125 to 110 & injection to carb's is really noticeable between the TL & the VTR I find, obviously for me to its detriment.



If you're going to compare apples with anchovies you're just going to end up with cleanish teeth and an oily residue on your chin.
rofl, too true


Oh, there's a summer fest special on them. Limited edition Suzuki colours and black uns for $12995 with Yoshi exhaust. Beat that deal!!!


Shit that IS a good deal, must take one for a blat this summer

[Flip]

Its simple V twins make a sound like a heart beat. When they are reved up they make a sound like a excited heart beat. At the most basic fetal level V twins simply sound more organic and more exciting.

[Boob Johnson]

sure the torque is one thing, but its more the fattt brrrappp, and crackle-crackle-pop sounds and the big vibration levels that I enjoy.

DB
On the money there DB, deep gutteral crackle n pops, like a rolling clap of thunder, farkin intoxicating man :love:



Of course he's quite right you know, an inline four with monster torque and character, not similar too but equal to that of a V. Best of both worlds. Can't knock the twins though a very engaging ride, not as bland as your average inlf.
The only thing against the 14 is its weight when comparing the torquey vtwin sports. What are they dry? 220? *googling now* 229 according to bikez.com. TL being 187dry, rather a big dif but hell the torque on the 1400 again according to bikez.com is 126nm lol, that is impressive but only 74 miniature ponies. A mate at the start of last summer bought a new Moto Morini Casaro, 1200 V Twin 140BHP 122nm Torque 199kg dry weight. Fark that thing is stroppy man & its bog standard, but it came at a price :slap:

[Owl]

XS 750 Yamaha you mean of course. :shifty:

:spanking: Wash your mouth out! Yamahaha indeed:no:

[Lord Derosso]

I have just come back from a quick 40 km ride to the Hutt to trial my flatmate on the back on my latest bike, a Kawasaki VN800, after selling the 600 full fairing Katana 18 months ago. It was quite windy but the VN was soooo cool and the windscreen and extra weight helped but I recall barely being able to keep on the road with the Katana in such wind. Yes, the engine pulls very well in 2nd all around town and changing to third just makes the bike feel so effortless. I am just waiting to go on a decent trip up to Kapiti on a decent day so I can actually feel like the bike is under any strain. I feel like I have rediscovered true motorcycling again and no more jokes from me towards the HD owners etc. In fact I can see myself saving up and getting a bigger Vulcan and keep the 800 for commutting, it really does feel that comfortable and only after 50 kms of riding. Anyway, I have had numerous bikes and a few fours so its not for me to question whats best but I do think I am now hooked on the big V twins. And the 800 has plenty of stoke for the speed freaks too.

[slofox]

Its simple V twins make a sound like a heart beat. When they are reved up they make a sound like a excited heart beat. At the most basic fetal level V twins simply sound more organic and more exciting.

I just love that V twin sound, especially when the revs get up - its a continuous burning snarl - and when you hit the torque it kicks you right up the arse....I will never forget the first time I took the SV past 7000 rpm - that was when I realised just what sort of bike I had bought......
But then on the other side of the ledger, I will never forget the sound of the first inline four I ever heard either.......I guess we need one of each to suit the mood of the day......yeah. right. Half a chance'd be a fine thing......

[banditrider]

I'm a greedy sod and have got both. They are vastly different and that's one of the reasons I have got both. There is definitely something about a twin in the way it goes about it's business - you can't ride one without smiling. In saying that the 14 pretty much does everything better and out grunts it from low revs too. It's also far more relaxing to ride (just what ya want in a tourer eh?).

If I could only have one bike (and it was going to be a sportsbike) and the choices were a 600-750cc 4 over a 1,000cc twin, the twin would be my pick. Easier to ride and it comes with soul.

[The Lone Rider]

Aww heck.. I just like bikes :)

PS.. vtwin and v4 fan actually

[banditrider]

Aww heck.. I just like bikes :)


Ditto............

[martybabe]

but only 74 miniature ponies.

:gob::gob: 74 ponies, I think they measured the starter motor by mistake or it's a typo, or that's kilowatts your quoting, 106 bhp claimed and piss easy to get 120-130 bhp out of em, not that it needs any more really, man that Torque is such a rush from 4 thou up.

I was passed by a moto morini thing a while back, fortunately for him, I was two up and pulling an eighteen wheel fully laden logging truck and triple trailer out of a drainage ditch with the Gsx14 at the time, or he'd have got the learn. :rofl:

There's another one for your consideration though, V twin lovers, a Moto Morini 1200 thing, it's insane.

[martybabe]

Anyway for V twin fans and inlf fans, watch this, turn up the volume, imagine the noise through some aftermarket pipes and fall in love with a V4, 197 of your ponies, yum.

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Oh man that's sweet.

[Pussy]

The 14 might only be 74hp, but you'd probably have to remove a sparkplug cap to get it down to that. The 14 hides it's weight VERY well. If I'm not mistaken, Beyond manages to punt one round at a rapid pace. Bloody great bikes, and huge value for money

[beyond]

V twins simply sound more organic

Don't you mean orgasmic? :)

[beyond]

On the money there DB, deep gutteral crackle n pops, like a rolling clap of thunder, farkin intoxicating man :love:



The only thing against the 14 is its weight when comparing the torquey vtwin sports. What are they dry? 220? *googling now* 229 according to bikez.com. TL being 187dry, rather a big dif but hell the torque on the 1400 again according to bikez.com is 126nm lol, that is impressive but only 74 miniature ponies. A mate at the start of last summer bought a new Moto Morini Casaro, 1200 V Twin 140BHP 122nm Torque 199kg dry weight. Fark that thing is stroppy man & its bog standard, but it came at a price :slap:

Must be the jap model. The standard 1400 over here runs 106hp. Not a lot but oooohhhh the torque and it's all so low down :)

[jrandom]

its more the fattt brrrappp, and crackle-crackle-pop sounds and the big vibration levels that I enjoy.

Dude, that's just your bike falling apart underneath you.

[terbang]

I've got and had both and I'm still making my mind up. I'll let you know when I do figure it out, though it might take a while... ;)

[AllanB]

I like the whole bloody lot of them :niceone:

I'd probably have a new triple if I could afford it. A inline 3 - not that tractor engine.

With respect to the much raved about torque of the V-twin - often very misleading as it is implied that any V-twin is a grunter and all IL4's are revers - not so. I'd need to check a dyno chart but seat of the pants the GS1200ss was a shit load grunter in the low end than a SV1000.

Comparing say a ZX6 to a 900 Monster is a absolute waste of time as they are not remotely comparable bikes.

Its all in the design - jump on a new sport spec Ducati and man can they haul in the upper end of their rev range. Jump on a 1600cc Harley and there is no top end, its low and mid range. Jump on a GSX1400 and it hauls down low like a big built-up Harley but keeps going where the Vtwin would explode. Just design again. Hop on a V-rod and they haul arse everywhere.

Now a V6 - that would be worth riding :clap:

[discotex]

I love the sound and torque of a twin or v4 but sadly the options are sparse if you want a >2005 model 1000cc(ish) sprotsbike (you know with full fairings, USDs, radial everything blah blah).

RSV/1098/848/etc are all way pricey but if I could afford one I'd be in in a heartbeat.

2009 SP1/2 or TLR would be more affordable but the Honda/Suzi/Kawa/Yamaha don't seem to think there's a market for them. Bollocks I say.

Even if you go naked Japanese you're somewhat trapped with IL4 if you want the top spec parts bin - CB1000R/Z1000/etc vs Super Duke/Tuono/Monster/etc.

[AllanB]

Even if you go naked Japanese you're somewhat trapped with IL4 if you want the top spec parts bin - CB1000R/Z1000/etc vs Super Duke/Tuono/Monster/etc.

Now this a very good comment as at that price level the perceived 'exoticness' of the Euro rides becomes attractive. Its odd that the Japs are not producing a high spec Vtwin - there is rumour of a 1200cc V-twin Honda but only that so far.

[DMNTD]

If I'm not mistaken, Beyond manages to punt one round at a rapid pace. Bloody great bikes, and huge value for money
Oh I can assure you that Mr Beyond has left many Behind when he has chosen to :chase:




Must be the jap model. The standard 1400 over here runs 106hp. Not a lot but oooohhhh the torque and it's all so low down :)
106hp???? Think we'll stick to the 179rwp that our '14 pokes out the back :devil2:
Kept your receipt? :bleh:

Jebus....when I think about it my scummy vtwin pokes out 160hp :shifty:

[Forest]

I love v-twins. They're slim, torquey, and light.

However I do worry a little bit about linear piston speeds in high-performance V-twins.

[Boob Johnson]

With respect to the much raved about torque of the V-twin - often very misleading as it is implied that any V-twin is a grunter and all IL4's are revers - not so. I'd need to check a dyno chart but seat of the pants the GS1200ss was a shit load grunter in the low end than a SV1000.
That's because the SV thou is the diet coke of V twins as is the VTR thou...............IMHO


:gob::gob: 74 ponies, I think they measured the starter motor by mistake or it's a typo, or that's kilowatts your quoting, 106 bhp claimed and piss easy to get 120-130 bhp out of em, not that it needs any more really, man that Torque is such a rush from 4 thou up.

I was passed by a moto morini thing a while back, fortunately for him, I was two up and pulling an eighteen wheel fully laden logging truck and triple trailer out of a drainage ditch with the Gsx14 at the time, or he'd have got the learn. :rofl:

There's another one for your consideration though, V twin lovers, a Moto Morini 1200 thing, it's insane.
lol yeah was tinkin that was kinda low, bikez.com has been known to be a lil off sometimes ive noticed.

That was probably a mate of mine, not many Moto Morini's around NP or NZ no doubt & yes you would HAVE to boot it to keep up with him if he didn't want a tail, the kid can ride :laugh: Both fantastic looking bikes

[dipshit]

Watch this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF82zO-VRf4

[dipshit]

Now who else watched right to the end hoping another V-twin was going to go past...???

nough said.

[Sensei]

[QUOTE=Boob Johnson;
That was probably a mate of mine, not many Moto Morini's around NP or NZ no doubt & yes you would HAVE to boot it to keep up with him if he didn't want a tail, the kid can ride :

Kelly cann't ride Boob , but then again he would still be faster than You :bleh::clap:

[Sensei]

Have found that Good rider's ride Inline4s but Great rider's ride V-twins

[martybabe]

That's because the SV thou is the diet coke of V twins as is the VTR thou...............IMHO


lol yeah was talkin that was kinda low, bikez.com has been known to be a lil off sometimes ive noticed.

That was probably a mate of mine, not many Moto Morini's around NP or NZ no doubt & yes you would HAVE to boot it to keep up with him if he didn't want a tail, the kid can ride :laugh: Both fantastic looking bikes

Yeah, he was a local lad, nice noise too, he sure was ahem, exploring it's abilities.


Have found that Good rider's ride Inline4s but Great rider's ride V-twins

So a v4 rider would be a God on wheels then, that settles it, I'll put my order in for a new vmax tomorrow. :D

[McJim]

I can't be bothered putting my finger on it. I rode the wife's GSX750F a few times - it's faster than my 600 but I didn't enjoy the ride as much.

I rode a ZX6R (636) in track trim around Pukekohe....it was fun but still I prefer my 600.

The sound of the little twin and the way it just eats corners and delivers a flat torque curve just makes me smile. So it only serves up 53hp but it's the way that it delivers it that pleases me. :yes:

[Pussy]

Gassit Girl had a K5 SV650S, and every now and then I had permission from Headquarters to ride it, and it was a blast! I really enjoyed it... sound and power delivery

[madbikeboy]

Now a V6 - that would be worth riding :clap:

How about an inline 6? Could you imagine the sound? Well, I can - it's called a CBX1000, and they sound like nothing else.

I'm a V-twin fan, but I can't seem to get on with them that well. I dislike the engine braking - it just messes with my head into corners, one thing too many to think about. Plus, I hate the way VT's run into a wall above a certain rev range - compared to the glorious howl of an IL4 screaming to 14 or 15,000 rpm......

I want to like them...

[Zoolander]

For me one of the more enjoyable aspects of the V-twin is the tractability, I love that you can get on the gas fairly hard out of a corner and it just hooks up and goes. If I tried the same thing on the R1 it probably would've spat me off! Just the different ways the engines put their power to the ground, the Ducati gets traction where an inline 4 might not.

Interesting though that most people feel that twins put out more torque, they may make more usable power lower in the rev range, but compare a litre twin with the same capacity four, with similar states of tune etc, and the 4 would most likely still pump out more torque. Not that it matters a jot, just a point.

The twin wins because it feels alive in a way that no inline ever has to me. I absolutely love it and probably wouldn't go back to a four. Be interested in riding the new R1 though, hmmmm big bang......

[Big Dave]

I've had the opportunity to have extended saddle time on motorcycles with 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6 cylinders in almost as many different configurations as pots.

There were aspects of all of them that I enjoyed.

I don't think there is a correct answer, as there isn't in any matter of taste.

[Boob Johnson]

Kelly can't ride Boob, but then again he would still be faster than You :bleh: :clap:
No Sensei, he can ride & ride well, he just doesn't show off as often as some & doesn't feel the need to, if he wants to ride fast he will but I can assure you it won't ever be because he wants to impress anyone. I grew up with Kelly, have known him & his entire family since I was 5, the boy can ride. None of my usual riding mates are into pissing competitions, we get out & enjoy riding together & talkin shit over a coffee, not into who's the best/fastest, that just leads to accidents in my view. We have a healthy level of friendly ribbing but no one is ever truly competing. I wouldn't ever be interested in riding along side anyone who is hell bent on trying to prove they are "top dog", again sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.


ps: you're right about one thing though, he can out ride me but then again a lot of people could :laugh:



Yeah, he was a local lad, nice noise too, he sure was ahem, exploring it's abilities.
Oh that might not be Kelly then, his kinda has a nice noise but he hasn't pimped a thing, the stock cans are pretty quiet so more than likely not. If it was a main road there is a high chance it wasn't him, we are all aware that Taranaki gets hit hard on certain roads.

[Dazza]

None of my usual riding mates are into pissing competitionsYeah but I can piss further than you :msn-wink:well when I was in my 20's I could :chase:

[zeocen]

I have one of them 'other' twins, of the parallel kind. So at the best of times it sounds like a lawnmower having an argument with a weed eater but I still just absolutely love the sound. Finding an aftermarket exhaust is a tough one if you don't like obnoxiously loud thumps which most people do.

I also love the rev range of a p-twin, so it can get some nice lion roars at about 9 - 10rpm on my ER6. Like McJim said, I only have a modest 64hp but it's how it handles it in torque is what matters, I have more fun on 64hp than I did on a claimed 155hp-ish litre bike!

In saying that I still have love for the IL4s and if the right bike later in life comes along I'll have no beef switching to the dark side again. Nothing will change my love for ZZR's so the IL4 blood is embedded pretty hard in this one! I especially loved the '05 ZX6R I rode for a day and a night with a Yoshi pipe, it had such a nice low growl until about 8rpm (Never had so many rev's to play with!) and then it started to scream, it was easily the best sounding bike I had ridden to date.. but then again all of my bikes have had stock pipes on them!

Long live the twins, fours and everything inbetween I say!

[vifferman]

I'll tell you what I think (yeah, I know you don't care, but here's my opinion anyway).
Motorbicycling is basically a very visceral thing: it's all about the sensations you enjoy while traveling (the way the bike feels, the acceleration, carving turns, and even the exposure to the weather/sights/smells/sounds). For me, a well-tuned IL4 with a nice zorst might sound kewl, and give you a real rush as it comes on song, but I dislike the buzziness of the engine. A single, twin, triple or V4 tends to have a bit more character to the engine that you can feel as you open the throttle.
It'd be a hard job to say which bike sounds best, but a Ducati with Termignonis or Contis, a piped Triumph triple and a '50s era 500 racing single all take a lot of beating aurally.

It's very much a personal preference thing, of course. When I first started on bikes, I loved the Kawasaki triples, but prefered the Honda and Kawasaki 4s, although the Ducati Desmo 450 'Silver Shotgun' was what I really lusted after.

If we're talking about twins, while I admire the Aprilias, and the odd Harley or big cruiser, they just don't sound the same as a 90-degree v-twin engine, and with 'drag pipes' they sound completely wrong - like a tractor that the muffler's fallen off.

[Cajun]

have a v-twin and a 4 cyclinder in the garage

personally i perfer the 4 cyclinder, where wife prefers the v-twin,

must say v-twins sound awsome, just engine does not suit my style.

going be interesting testing the new aprilia v4 motor due out next year. a mix of both worlds.

[Dazza]

I have one of them 'other' twins, of the parallel kind. So at the best of times it sounds like a lawnmower having an argument with a weed eater but I still just absolutely love the sound. Finding an aftermarket exhaust is a tough one if you don't like obnoxiously loud thumps which most people do.

I also love the rev range of a p-twin, so it can get some nice lion roars at about 9 - 10rpm on my ER6. Like McJim said, I only have a modest 64hp but it's how it handles it in torque is what matters, I have more fun on 64hp than I did on a claimed 155hp-ish litre bike!

In saying that I still have love for the IL4s and if the right bike later in life comes along I'll have no beef switching to the dark side again. Nothing will change my love for ZZR's so the IL4 blood is embedded pretty hard in this one! I especially loved the '05 ZX6R I rode for a day and a night with a Yoshi pipe, it had such a nice low growl until about 8rpm (Never had so many rev's to play with!) and then it started to scream, it was easily the best sounding bike I had ridden to date.. but then again all of my bikes have had stock pipes on them!

Long live the twins, fours and everything inbetween I say!
Well said :2thumbsup I'm a wee bit biased though as my first real road bike @ 18yrs old was a Ducati S2900 (a whoping 50hp) which I had for 10yrs, traded her for a 97 1100Sport Moto Guzzi (did 43000k's), then had 2 Aprilia's (Falco,24000k's then RSVR,45000k's) then the KTM Super Duke,50000k's which I traded for my current Super Duke which now has covered 3500k's. @ the time of owning the RSVR I had a KTM640 Duke & then swapped that for a KTM640 Enduro & on the right rodes they where real weapons.I have had a couple of IL4's but not as my sole means of 2 wheels & still have an RGV250 in bits in a shed. So @ the end of the day it's what floats your boat really :2thumbsup

[Sensei]

[QUOTE=Boob Johnson;1786044]No Sensei, he can ride & ride well, he just doesn't show off as often as some & doesn't feel the need to, if he wants to ride fast he will but I can assure you it won't ever be because he wants to impress anyone. I grew up with Kelly, have known him & his entire family since I was 5, the boy can ride. None of my usual riding mates are into pissing competitions, we get out & enjoy riding together & talkin shit over a coffee, not into who's the best/fastest, that just leads to accidents in my view. We have a healthy level of friendly ribbing but no one is ever truly competing. I wouldn't ever be interested in riding along side anyone who is hell bent on trying to prove they are "top dog", again sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

This coming from someone that went on how fast they went in a straightline on ya RF900 ?? No worrys Boob have heard it all before . People that have natural talent & like show it off will always be criticized don't feel bad & buying a fast bike want help either !! :weep:

[BarBender]

They'd be one of each in my garage if I could get it past the CFO...

[Motu]

38 years of motorcycles,and I've only had one 4 cyl bike (CB750),although I've ridden a few more.They just don't seem to say motorcycle to me...they are very bland...oh,very fast,but just lacking that certain something.Single,twins,and triples too for me.I don't care whether the twin goes from 45deg through to 180 and 360....they are all great.But singles are even better.

[DMNTD]

They'd be one of each in my garage if I could get it past the CFO...
Fishing with the wrong rod brother?

[Fatjim]

Nah, they're snobs and they're just sneering at the lower classes and their cheap transport.

Well we have been noted for stopping and waiting for lesser mortels for a chat occasionally.

[johan]

I love v-twins. They're slim, torquey, and light.

However I do worry a little bit about linear piston speeds in high-performance V-twins.

What is linear piston speed?

[idleidolidyll]

I took a 2006 Kawasaki Z750 for a squirt this afternoon. It has more horses than my Ducati but a slightly slower quarter mile. Very nice bike, smooth, light steering, handled well, responsive.....but....

:zzzz::zzzz:

I don't get it. I really don't. I understand how reliable and powerful the Japanese multis are. They pretty much do anything the average rider will want plus a lot more. But, for me, they just lack the "Wow" factor that a V-twin or indeed a V-four has. I guess its torque - or maybe just my fevered imagination. :doctor:

Obviously I'm in the minority because there aren't many Jap V-twins, which suggests their buying public like multis much more.

Dear Winnie,

a twin IS a multi.
The only configuration that isn't a multi is a single.

my 2c: a vee twin multi, parralel twin multi or opposed twin multi is better than a 4 cylinder multi because the power delivery is far better for the roads we ride.

i've had my share of 4's and in the end they've all been ultimately boring. yes, good at most things but just dull compared to multi's with fewer cylionders and IMO, WAYYY less interesting than a single (non multi)

[dipshit]

What is linear piston speed?

It's the speed of the piston and rings travelling up and down the bore. Usually measured in metres per sec.

Bigger pistons with longer stroke, travel greater distance for the same given rpm.

[pritch]

RSV/1098/848/etc are all way pricey but if I could afford one I'd be in in a heartbeat.


You missed the pick of the bunch: the RC8

[BMWST?]

ahhh s2 Ductai eh...yes.I had one after a long line of UJM(one of which was a triple...) And after that i had a longitudinal flat four.....I liked em all..and you cant get any different than a s2 ducati and a BMW k 100 rs...the thing about the ducati was it ALWAYS hooked up,..the beemer had much much much more tourque,and it had amazing rear grip too..

[discotex]

You missed the pick of the bunch: the RC8

Oh yeah there's a bunch more brilliant exotic sports twins that I didn't think of at the time. Should really take the RC8 out for a spin sometime.

[Boob Johnson]

This coming from someone that went on how fast they went in a straightline on ya RF900 ?? No worrys Boob have heard it all before . People that have natural talent & like show it off will always be criticized don't feel bad & buying a fast bike want help either !! :weep:
lol sorry Scotty as I said I don't do pissing competitions mate :bleh:

You remind me of my dog I had growing up, very intelligent, well liked by the majority of other dogs in the neighbourhood, highly skilled & when he would get together with his buddies he would go around the lot of them nipping them all on the butts with his tail straight up in the air, once the alpha male had established himself off they went and all was well :niceone:

You're a good bugger Sensai, spoken with you plenty of times out and about on rides & you seem like a decent bloke, I know a few others that know you & they speak well of you also, you're a very highly skilled rider of many many years as most know im sure (just one bin, last year wasn't it?). I never forget that ride down to the Cemetary curcuit last boxing day, you came across the pack & exactly like my dog above you rode through us very closely as if to nip us on the butts metaphorically speaking, at light pace not much quicker than ours but with a certain attitude, had ya left hand wresting on ya thigh while you went through by us, clutchless up shifting & gassing it on to make sure we heard you lol (does sound farkin sweet too), was funny as hell from where I was sitting, on the USS Nimitz . Im not havin a go at ya Scotty, you're a good bugger, im sayin lighten up mate, I will never be ashamed or feel embarrassed to say in public I enjoyed taking my (at the time) new bike up to close to it's top speed on the first day of ownership, mate I farkin love speed, have done since....for ever, couldn't give two hoots what you or anyone else thinks if ive expressed I LOVE motorcycling, on any road be it straight or bent :clap:

[Boob Johnson]

You missed the pick of the bunch: the RC8
Hell yes, had a good look at one for the first time in the flesh in Palmerston North two weeks ago, to say its an amazing piece of machinery would be an understatement.

[BarBender]

Fishing with the wrong rod brother?

LOL
Rods alright.
Using the wrong bait. :rolleyes:

[dipshit]

had ya left hand wresting on ya high while you went through by us, clutchless up shifting & gassing it on to make sure we heard you lol ....


Do you need any tissues to wipe the cum off your monitor..?

[Boob Johnson]

Do you need any tissues to wipe the cum off your monitor..?
Sorry if I offended you with the "SV thou's are the diet coke of v twins"


Won't happen again :msn-wink:

[Dazza]

You missed the pick of the bunch: the RC8Ahmen to that Pritch, I'm going to take it for another spin in December, this time she's got the full Akrapovic,nice & fruity :cool:

[Forest]

What is linear piston speed?

The answer was given earlier, but basically in a large-capacity v-twin engine the pistons have to move further than in other multi-cylinder engine configurations.

Unfortunately there are physical engineering limits on the maximum linear speed that a piston can travel. If you exceed these limits, the oil isn't able to keep the engine lubricated and the cylinder bores start to wear out.

In a race engine this isn't really a problem since the mechanics rebuild the engines regularly. However it is a problem on road bikes since the repair work is complex and costly.

The high-performance large-capacity v-twins used in modern sports bikes like Ducatis, Aprilias, and KTMs are running very close to the engineering limits for linear piston speed. This is what prompted my earlier comment.

[johan]

The answer was given earlier, but basically in a large-capacity v-twin engine the pistons have to move further than in other multi-cylinder engine configurations.

Unfortunately there are physical engineering limits on the maximum linear speed that a piston can travel. If you exceed these limits, the oil isn't able to keep the engine lubricated and the cylinder bores start to wear out.

In a race engine this isn't really a problem since the mechanics rebuild the engines regularly. However it is a problem on road bikes since the repair work is complex and costly.

The high-performance large-capacity v-twins used in modern sports bikes like Ducatis, Aprilias, and KTMs are running very close to the engineering limits for linear piston speed. This is what prompted my earlier comment.

Thanks for that explanation. I do understand piston speed, but I haven't seen 'linear' piston speed before.

I thought the higher RPMs in the il4 made the piston speed pretty much the same as a twin with longer stroke but lower revs?

I would imagine a 16,000 rpm 600cc falling apart a lot quicker then a 9000 rpm twin?

But as you said, on a road bike, I doubt the engine spend much time at the redline/maximum piston speed and if it is a race bike, then that's a part of the game.

[Forest]

Thanks for that explanation. I do understand piston speed, but I haven't seen 'linear' piston speed before.

I thought the higher RPMs in the il4 made the piston speed pretty much the same as a twin with longer stroke but lower revs?

I would imagine a 16,000 rpm 600cc falling apart a lot quicker then a 9000 rpm twin?

But as you said, on a road bike, I doubt the engine spend much time at the redline/maximum piston speed and if it is a race bike, then that's a part of the game.

You are right. Given that pistons only travel in straight lines, the 'linear' is probably redundant :)

For a real world example, consider the Honda CBR600 and the Ducati 1098. I'm probably being unfair in comparing these at the engine red-line (but that's when the greatest engine damage will occur).

Honda CBR600:
42.5mm stroke
15,000 rpm redline
average piston speed = 2 x 15,000 x 42.5mm / 60 seconds = 21.25 metres per second

Ducati 1098:
64.7mm stroke
10,700 rpm redline
average piston speed = 2 x 10,700 x 64.7mm / 60 seconds = 23.08 metres per second


Note: Got the stroke and redline numbers through google. Please correct me if they're wrong.

[Forest]

If anybody knows the conrod length (between centres) for the CBR600 and 1098 then I'll do some trigonometry and calculate the peak piston speeds as well.

[dipshit]

Thanks for that explanation. I do understand piston speed, but I haven't seen 'linear' piston speed before.

I think it's to differentiate it from acceleration speed of a piston. That is the G force it is placed under at either end of the stroke.

[dipshit]

Honda CBR600:
42.5mm stroke
15,000 rpm redline
average piston speed = 2 x 15,000 x 42.5mm / 60 seconds = 21.25 metres per second

Ducati 1098:
64.7mm stroke
10,700 rpm redline
average piston speed = 2 x 10,700 x 64.7mm / 60 seconds = 23.08 metres per second


Even the SV1000 with its 66mm stroke and 1100 rpm redline ends up at around 24 metres per second.

Just another reason i prefer to short shift with the peak torque around 8000 rpm even when going for it. Not much point taking it out to the redline.

[slofox]

SV650 tops out at 22.9m/s @ 11000rpm.........but there's little reason to take it to redline - shift up at 10000 not 11000 since there's not much grunt there anyway....peak torque at 7000, peak power at 9000.....brings max linear piston speed to 20.87 m/s..........

[rocketman1]

Put it this way, If motorbikes where electric and had no sound,
what a BORE, I really don't think I would ride a bike.
The best pleasures of owing a bike is the sound of bike under full acceleration or slowing down.
That is more than half the enjoyment of the ride, figure it out.
Imagine a Harley that sounded like an electric toothbrush...get a life.
The sound of SV1000 with two Yoshis screaming is bloody fantastic and makes life and riding a bike, what its all about, pure magic.
Say what you like V twins RULE.
Like you, I have listened to them all ...go figure, end of argument..

[Dazza]

Put it this way, If motorbikes where electric and had no sound,
what a BORE, I really don't think I would ride a bike.
The best pleasures of owing a bike is the sound of bike under full acceleration or slowing down.
That is more than half the enjoyment of the ride, figure it out.
Imagine a Harley that sounded like an electric toothbrush...get a life.
The sound of SV1000 with two Yoshis screaming is bloody fantastic and makes life and riding a bike, what its all about, pure magic.
Say what you like V twins RULE.
Like you, I have listened to them all ...go figure, end of argument..

Well said,except the bit about the SV :devil2:(P/T)

[slofox]

Put it this way, If motorbikes where electric and had no sound,
what a BORE, I really don't think I would ride a bike.
The best pleasures of owing a bike is the sound of bike under full acceleration or slowing down.
That is more than half the enjoyment of the ride, figure it out.
Imagine a Harley that sounded like an electric toothbrush...get a life.
The sound of SV1000 with two Yoshis screaming is bloody fantastic and makes life and riding a bike, what its all about, pure magic.
Say what you like V twins RULE.
Like you, I have listened to them all ...go figure, end of argument..

Whilst I do agree with your point, I would be quite interested to ride a silent bike - once anyway....just to experience it......wind noise only...hmmmmm.
But as far as V-twins go, you are right on the hammer......nothing quite like that snarl as they power up through the revs.......hurhurhur.....

[Dazza]

Whilst I do agree with your point, I would be quite interested to ride a silent bike - once anyway....just to experience it......wind noise only...hmmmmm.
But as far as V-twins go, you are right on the hammer......nothing quite like that snarl as they power up through the revs.......hurhurhur.....I had a wee issue with the Akrapovic Y pipe on my previous Super Duke & refitted the original cans (first time ever running them) for 5000k's, after running race cans for 30000k's & I really enjoyed the noise (lack of), especially the trip to the Brass Monkey & back last year. But once they where refitted I'm all for race cans (have Evo Akrapovics on the new one), make the most of them whilst it's still legal :Police:

[Dooly]

I have a vtwin, inline 3 & inline 4.
I find the 4 the smoothest, the twin vibrates of course especially down low.
IMO opinion my 3 cyl Speed Triple is the pick of them, good torque down low, plus power all thru the range including up top like a 4, but the best sounding, the twin, especially with the carbon cans on!!!!!:niceone:

[2wheeldrifter]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
I love v-twins. They're slim, torquey, and light.

However I do worry a little bit about linear piston speeds in high-performance V-twins.


What is linear piston speed?

Who cares just ride the freckin thing!! Looking at forest's avatar he needs to grow up lol

[johan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
I love v-twins. They're slim, torquey, and light.

However I do worry a little bit about linear piston speeds in high-performance V-twins.



Who cares just ride the freckin thing!! Looking at forest's avatar he needs to grow up lol

ya mate, I take my 998 to the track every month and ride it like I stole it. It lives between 6000-10500 RPMs most of the time so I'm trying to understand how this will affect the engine. :blink:

Last time we pulled it apart things were still looking good. :sick:

I'll continue to abuse it till it falls apart. By that time I'll hopefully have sponsors queued up to give me two 1098R to race :scooter:

[sinned]

:Oi:What about the triples? Sheesh!
Wide Open Throttle on the S3 in a tunnel/underpass is pure porn. :drool:

[Winston001]

....basically in a large-capacity v-twin engine the pistons have to move further than in other multi-cylinder engine configurations.

Unfortunately there are physical engineering limits on the maximum linear speed that a piston can travel. If you exceed these limits, the oil isn't able to keep the engine lubricated and the cylinder bores start to wear out.

The high-performance large-capacity v-twins used in modern sports bikes like Ducatis, Aprilias, and KTMs are running very close to the engineering limits for linear piston speed. .

But isn't that why water-cooling is used in the superbike V-twins? To allow finer tolerances and control metal expansion/contraction?

I'm grateful to you Forest for the calculations because its pretty sobering stuff to pause and think about the forces at work in a high-performance motorcycle engine. A large piston hurled down and then forced up, only to come to a sudden stop, all at around 20m/sec - lots of kinetic energy. Its amazing these things go for tens of thousands of km. :niceone:

[Forest]

But isn't that why water-cooling is used in the superbike V-twins? To allow finer tolerances and control metal expansion/contraction?

I'm grateful to you Forest for the calculations because its pretty sobering stuff to pause and think about the forces at work in a high-performance motorcycle engine. A large piston hurled down and then forced up, only to come to a sudden stop, all at around 20m/sec - lots of kinetic energy. Its amazing these things go for tens of thousands of km. :niceone:

Yep. It is incredible that they work as well as they do.

The amazing thing is that in a high-performance v-twin engine the average piston speed is 23-25 m/s but the peak piston speed is around 200km/h.

In a 1098 engine at full tilt (10,700 rpm) each piston gets accelerated to 200km/h and stopped again around 356 times a second.