Rear tyres:180 or 190? What's your preference?

[naphazoline]

was curious as to what your views/experiences are on rear tyre sizing for better handling.
i currently have a 190 rear (on an 06 blade),but have heard some guys like to down size to a 180,as they are supposed to corner better.
the blade turns in quite good,but seems to be harder to get it over past a certain lean angle.
i've only had the bike a couple of months,and i'm still getting used to it a bit,but in comparison to other bikes i've riden,it's taking a lot longer to get my full confidence,and i still find some corners to be a bit troublesome,as the bike tends to want to push me wide.

any info/stories welcome

cheers
naph'

[naphazoline]

btw,i probably should mention that i still haven't got around to having the suspension set up yet.

might this be a contributing factor?

[Cajun]

well there is a few opinions really
180/55
190/50 (stock i think)
190/55

i am guessing your bike come stock with a 190/50, people go down to the 180 due to higher profile to help with turn in, but honstly your better heading down the 190/55 route instead. if you have problems instead the 180


note i would set the suspenion first and formost and then go from there

[jrandom]

190/55s are super sweet.

But get your bike working right for you on the tyre size it came with, first, before you start fiddling with things.

Also note that not all 190/50s are created equal in terms of profile. Some will be much 'tippier' than others.

[naphazoline]

sorry.yes you are right.it's a 190/50/17.metzler roadtec z6

cheers

[jrandom]

sorry.yes you are right.it's a 190/50/17.metzler roadtec z6

Ah. Refer my comment re. different 190/50s having different profiles.

If you get some 190/50 Pilot Power 2CTs on there, you'll find that the bike goes around corners a lot better.

If you can afford to do it, I'd do it immediately, too - Z6s won't really handle what your bike does when the throttle's wide open.

[NZsarge]

190/55s are super sweet.


Agreed, Naphazoline if you get keen to try a different tyre try going to a 55 profile first and see how that goes, IMHO it's the less radical of your two options.

[Cajun]

a pic i came across while ago
bit hard to read the text, but it got a picture to show you shape of the 3 tire sizes, relative to each other

there will always be differences due to brand, style, (some brands are more round, where others are bit more triangle like)

[jrandom]

Agreed, Naphazoline if you get keen to try a different tyre try going to a 55 profile first and see how that goes

I don't know of any non-race tyres other than Pilot Power 2CTs that can be got in 190/55s? Correct me if I'm mistaken.

The difference between a 190/50 Z6 and a 190/55 Pilot Power would be... very significant. Enough to throw you off figuring out how you want the suspension, IMHO.

Personally, I'd bin the Metzelers and go to a 190/50 model of a 'proper' sportbike tyre first, and then move on to the 190/55 once I'd gone through that set.

[naphazoline]

If you get some 190/50 Pilot Power 2CTs on there, you'll find that the bike goes around corners a lot better..

i suppose i'm asking for too much,but are these a long wearing,good all round tyre?
it's just that i do a lot of commuting on the bike(wet and dry weather) as well as longer rides,and don't fancy buying a new tyre every 2 months.
cheers

[NZsarge]

I don't know of any non-race tyres other than Pilot Power 2CTs that can be got in 190/55s? Correct me if I'm mistaken.

The difference between a 190/50 Z6 and a 190/55 Pilot Power would be... very significant. Enough to throw you off figuring out how you want the suspension, IMHO.

Personally, I'd bin the Metzelers and go to a 190/50 model of a 'proper' sportbike tyre first, and then move on to the 190/55 once I'd gone through that set.

I have some 55 profile "street compound" Conti Race Attacks in the shed waiting to go on this week. :niceone:

[enigma51]

180 or 190

as long as its a bridgestone you will have awesome grip!

[Tony.OK]

+1 on getting your susp set up 1st, its more likely that is whats causing you to run wide. I've had 180's on mine and they were fine for commuting, once at the track though they did run out of edge grip when riding hard.
The 55 profile definately works better on the 1000rr, but as someone has mentioned finding a street/road tyre in 55 is hard.
Tyre life really depends on how you ride, I only averaged 17-1900kms from anything I used on the road.
Being in the Naki you are very close to 2 really good susp guys, Robert Taylor and Shaun Harris, they are very helpful regarding setup.

[naphazoline]

i have a friend who races that's going to set up my suspension,but he's quite busy,and i need to get off my arse and give him a ring

[klyong82]

i suppose i'm asking for too much,but are these a long wearing,good all round tyre?
it's just that i do a lot of commuting on the bike(wet and dry weather) as well as longer rides,and don't fancy buying a new tyre every 2 months.
cheers

The Michelin Pilot Power 2CT are dual compound tyres hard in the middle and soft on the side so they do last quite a bit. I put a set on my blade 2000km's ago and they still look good. The 2CT's in my opinion turns in faster than the Z6 and even M3 tyres.

If you had the cash you can try contisport attack. They seem to turn in pretty good too and seem to last more than 10,000km on my riding style. I have not had it on the 1krr but absolutely loved it on my 929 and 900.

Get your suspension done first and see how it rides.

[Morcs]

Im running a 190 on my 600 and its fine.

190/55 on the TL was nice.

180/55 on a 6'' rim isnt good. dont do it. 5.5'' rim is all good though.

[BIGBOSSMAN]

I have some 55 profile "street compound" Conti Race Attacks in the shed waiting to go on this week. :niceone:

You'll love them - they are grouse tyres

[pritch]

as long as its a bridgestone you will have awesome grip!

In the dry:whistle:

[MSTRS]

i suppose i'm asking for too much,but are these a long wearing,good all round tyre?
it's just that i do a lot of commuting on the bike(wet and dry weather) as well as longer rides,and don't fancy buying a new tyre every 2 months.
cheers

I started with 190/50 Pilot Sports - hated them. Went to 180/55 Pilot Road 2ct. Totally different experience. Smooth progressive tip all the way to the edge. Good grip all round. You can push these tyres fairly hard and they will behave. And the hard centre means you get to do lots of kms. Mine have done around 12,500 and they're good for another 3 or more.

180/55 on a 6'' rim isnt good. dont do it. 5.5'' rim is all good though.Really? Why have I had a wonderful experience then?

[Gremlin]

I don't know of any non-race tyres other than Pilot Power 2CTs that can be got in 190/55s? Correct me if I'm mistaken.
Continental SportAttacks come in 190/55... very nice tyre, adequate in the wet, but not brilliant per se.


If you had the cash you can try contisport attack. They seem to turn in pretty good too and seem to last more than 10,000km on my riding style.
:crazy: 10k on sportattacks? Blimey, I never saw more than 6k, front or rear.

[naphazoline]

The Michelin Pilot Power 2CT are dual compound tyres hard in the middle and soft on the side so they do last quite a bit. I put a set on my blade 2000km's ago and they still look good. The 2CT's in my opinion turns in faster than the Z6 and even M3 tyres.

If you had the cash you can try contisport attack. They seem to turn in pretty good too and seem to last more than 10,000km on my riding style. I have not had it on the 1krr but absolutely loved it on my 929 and 900.

Get your suspension done first and see how it rides.

wow!!! that's exceptional mileage,but i don't think i'll be expecting that longer life,as i cover some rough roads fairly regularly.

[naphazoline]

great info guys.some very useful stuff for me here.
i've organised my mate to help me set up the suspension (hopefully tonight, all going to plan),so i can't wait to see how much of a difference that will make.after i do a few stints on it,then i'll have to make a choice on a rear tyre,as i'm fast wearing the Z6 out:clap:

[jrandom]

Really? Why have I had a wonderful experience then?

*cough* cos yer slow?

:wari:

I second all the points regarding Pilot Power 2CTs, the grip they offer is superb wet and dry, and if you're smooth on the gas and mostly just tiptoe around, you'll get close to 10,000km out of a set.

The 190/55s are bad for commuting and long slow highway type riding, though, they square off fast. I'd go with the 190/50s, they're tippy enough as they are, and about $70 cheaper too, if I recall correctly.

I love the Conti Race Attacks too, on a dry road, but I have my doubts about their performance in the wet - IMHO, they're a trackday and Sunday rides tyre, not an all year round handle-everything tyre like the PPs.

[Pussy]

180/55 on a 6'' rim isnt good. dont do it. 5.5'' rim is all good though.

You've hit the nail on the head there, Morcs! Distorts the carcase of the tyre too much, fitting a 180 to a 6"

[AllanB]

What brand & type of tyre are you running on the front?

If you are putting a sticky on on the rear you should have a sticky or sticker front.

[doc]

You can push these tyres fairly hard and they will behave. And the hard centre means you get to do lots of kms. Mine have done around 12,500 and they're good for another 3 or more.


Fairly hard . Well Im a nana by Kb'r standards and I've never got that sort of mileage out my hardley on any sort of tyre I've tried. And I scare the living daylights out of the Hog club members on rides I've been on with them. :shit: I'd :love: to get 15k out of a tyre. :yes:


P.S.I'm no expert but I feel more comfortable with the 180 over the 190 on the rear on my other bike and that's not backed up with any theory just the way I feel about it.

[boomer]

You can push these tyres fairly hard and they will behave.

Knowing everything is relative.. can you give me a mark out of 1-10 for hard riding.. 1 being JRandoms hard out.. 10 being sudeep. I'm guessing your 'hard' is a 1 :msn-wink:.

The pp2ct are shite when pushed... even worse than teh standard pp's. They;re like riding on marsh mallows!

If you can get 190's in a Dunlop 209 RR i would; i cant comment on the conti's. The Dunlops have a wicked profile that literally drops the bike into a corner. (Until you get use to it, it feels like you've dropped teh bike).

[jrandom]

1 being JRandoms hard out.

You'd love a bit of my 'hard out' wouldn't you bro.

:hug:


The pp2ct are shite when pushed... even worse than teh standard pp's. They;re like riding on marsh mallows!

You're so full of it your eyes are brown.


If you can get 190's in a Dunlop 209 RR i would

Super sexy stickies! But are they any good if you have to commute a lot on the bike too?

[Mishy]

P.S.I'm no expert but I feel more comfortable with the 180 over the 190 on the rear on my other bike and that's not backed up with any theory just the way I feel about it.


And that's all you need to know :) I know this - 190/50 is a tyre for high milage. The flatter profile gives more contact in the centre of the tyre which is good for durability, but turn in is not as good. 180/55 on the correct size rim will steer better than 190/55 on the same rim. the reason is that the 190/55 causes the contact patch to shift further to the inside on the bike, and steering is reduces because of that ( it shortens the lever on the gravitational axis blah blah blah). Racers use 190/55 (and 190/60) because of the better exit grip, but we spend quite a lot of time trying to get the bikes to steer with the bigger tyre.

[doc]

And that's all you need to know :) I know this - 190/50 is a tyre for high milage. The flatter profile gives more contact in the centre of the tyre which is good for durability, but turn in is not as good. 180/55 on the correct size rim will steer better than 190/55 on the same rim. the reason is that the 190/55 causes the contact patch to shift further to the inside on the bike, and steering is reduces because of that ( it shortens the lever on the gravitational axis blah blah blah). Racers use 190/55 (and 190/60) because of the better exit grip, but we spend quite a lot of time trying to get the bikes to steer with the bigger tyre.

Yeah that's what I meant. :rolleyes:

[klyong82]

:crazy: 10k on sportattacks? Blimey, I never saw more than 6k, front or rear.

I got 10k on the front of my 929 COntisports but correction the rear was only 8k. But everyone knows I ride like a nana!!


wow!!! that's exceptional mileage,but i don't think i'll be expecting that longer life,as i cover some rough roads fairly regularly.

Well the other alternative to PP 2CT is the Pilot Road 2 also dual compound so you will get abit more mileage than the PP 2CT if you are after longevity. Get that suspension sorted then because wrong suspension settings will wear out tyres faster.

I have also noticed the Z6 wearing out fast when it is near its end of life but that was the time I was riding a 1200 V-twin.

[jrandom]

Well the other alternative to PP 2CT is the Pilot Road 2

Nah, fuck that, the PP 2CTs handle so much better that the extra mileage out of the PR2s isn't worth it.

[naphazoline]

What brand & type of tyre are you running on the front?

If you are putting a sticky on on the rear you should have a sticky or sticker front.

metler m3 120/70/17

[naphazoline]

me and my mate have had a play with the suspension tonight,and found it was set up VERY hard.the previous owner weighed about 110-115 kg which is 15-20 kg heavier then myself.no wonder every little bump felt like a hammer in the back :eek:.the height was pretty damn close to where it should be,so there was no need to make any adjustments there.

really looking foward to a test ride session tomorrow.have a couple of ideas where to go with the settings if it isn't right.

and i've learnt and understand exactly what it is that we done.a test session should help me understand the effects of the adjustments.:niceone:

[MSTRS]

All this palaver about PP2ct's and M3s and ContiRaceAttacks and other such sticky performance tyres....can't youse fullas read? The man wants a tyre that he can trust in a variety of conditions, that will last a goodly distance without squaring off and will handle some push in the twisties. He didn't say he wanted to get his elbow down and replace tyres every 2000kms...

[jrandom]

The man wants a tyre that he can trust in a variety of conditions, that will last a goodly distance without squaring off and will handle some push in the twisties.

That'd be the Pilot Powers then.

:niceone:


He didn't say he wanted to... replace tyres every 2000kms

That'd be the Pilot Powers then. See above, 8-10,000km from a set, etc.

:niceone:

[MSTRS]

That'd be the Pilot Powers then.

:niceone:



That'd be the Pilot Powers then. See above, 8-10,000km from a set, etc.

:niceone:

So I should try PP2s when I replace the PR2s? With my lighter, nimbler 750 and superior riding style, I'll get 12-15,000kms and better grip?

[jrandom]

So I should try PP2s when I replace the PR2s?

Definitely. Do give the PP 2CTs a go. I'd say you'll get noticeably superior grip, and about the same mileage.

:yes:

(Betty's done about 4,000km on her PP 2CTs so far, and they're still looking good.)

[Usarka]

(Betty's done about 4,000km on her PP 2CTs so far, and they're still looking good.)

Do they deterioate with age? :innocent:

[jrandom]

Do they deterioate with age? :innocent:

Dunno, but they're sure going to deteriorate with a trackday tomorrow!

:D

[martybabe]

Good thread guys, can ya shed some light on this for me......

I'm running 180s on the back of my GSX1400, stock is 190, I was thinking of changing to 190s because I find the 180s a little too tippy i.e. just think of leaning over and it flops down quick as you like and I can see the advantages of that for super quick changes of direction but personally I like a more controlled, progressive and predictable roll over.

I thought a broader tyre would be the answer, would it? or should I be looking for a rounder profile or both.

Appreciate your input, cheers.

[MSTRS]

I'm running 180s on the back of my GSX1400, stock is 190, I was thinking of changing to 190s because I find the 180s a little too tippy i.e. just think of leaning over and it flops down quick as you like and I can see the advantages of that for super quick changes of direction but personally I like a more controlled, progressive and predictable roll over.

I thought a broader tyre would be the answer, would it? or should I be looking for a rounder profile or both.



Depends on the profile, rather than the 180/190 thing. One brand of 180 may behave like another brand's 190. I liked the difference when I changed from Michelin's Pilot Sport 190 to the Pilot Road 2 180. The tip in is smooth and even. No sudden drop in and not progressively harder the further it leans.

[jrandom]

I'm running 180s on the back of my GSX1400, stock is 190

180s on a 6" rim is bad juju, don't do that again, you're a naughty man.

I found the PR2 190/50s a wee bit slow on the tip in, but PP 2CT 190/50s were just right, like Goldilocks' porridge (and I know even more than McJim does about porridge, believe me).

Currently Betty's wearing a PP 2CT 190/55 rear, and it's... totally super duper as soon as any proper cornering is required, but a waste of money if you're just commuting and touring.

For the GSX1400, I recommend the Pilot Power 2CT 190/50 rear. Try a set today!

[jrandom]

Pilot Road 2... The tip in is smooth and even.

The bike makes a difference, too. 'Smooth and even' steering tyres on a GSX-R750 end up as 'must signal Steering Department several minutes ahead of time' on a GSX1400.

[MSTRS]

180s on a 6" rim is bad juju, don't do that again, you're a naughty man.
There are dozens of tyre width threads scattered through KB - the general consensus is that one step up or down on standard for your rim is not a huge no-no. Obviously going to a different tyre width will alter the inflated tyre's profile so brand/model has a part to play. If only to the rider's handling preference. From a safety angle, it is not a problem.


The bike makes a difference, too. 'Smooth and even' steering tyres on a GSX-R750 end up as 'must signal Steering Department several minutes ahead of time' on a GSX1400.

True, that.

[martybabe]

The tip in is smooth and even. No sudden drop in and not progressively harder the further it leans.

That's the baby, that's exactly what I want and exactly what I don't have, well understood mate, I wasn't sure that I articulated the issue well enough.

I'm upright then it almost falls to ( a certain angle) then you have to work it harder as you go down :shutup: My baby and I like to be smooth, we both get a bit out of shape with rapid changes from standing up to sitting down.

I'm chuffed with that answer, thanks.


180s on a 6" rim is bad juju, don't do that again, you're a naughty man.

Yeah, I bought it shod that way, worst still the WOF man changed it to another of the same size before I realised it wasn't the right size. pfft

For the GSX1400, I recommend the Pilot Power 2CT 190/50 rear. Try a set today!

definitely! well not Today but soon as, cheers.

[vifferman]

as long as its a bridgestone you will have awesome grip!
LOL.
Y'reckon?

[boomer]

Do they deterioate with age? :innocent:

ahahha His certainly don't deteriorate from riding, well, other than being written off...?!

[MSTRS]

That's the baby, that's exactly what I want and exactly what I don't have, well understood mate, I wasn't sure that I articulated the issue well enough.

I'm upright then it almost falls to ( a certain angle) then you have to work it harder as you go down :shutup: My baby and I like to be smooth, we both get a bit out of shape with rapid changes from standing up to sitting down.

I'm chuffed with that answer, thanks.


Some people like the rapid drop in/progressively harder as it leans thing. They say it helps them feel when the edge of the tyre is coming into play. Personally, I'd rather have the same amount of effort at any lean angle
Remember, there is 5mm each side of upright width difference from 180 to 190, which is fuck all...it is the shape of the bearing surface that is more important as to how it behaves.

[naphazoline]

well...i went for a ride(in the bloody rain),returned home, softened up the rear shock a tad more, and went out again.

definitely feeling better than it was.quite noticeably :woohoo:.and the bumps are a lot nicer feel then before :cool:.i'm picking i wont be suffering so much fatigue on the longer rides

it does tend to drop in quick to a point,then become progressively harder the more angle that's required,but i haven't had any real time on it yet,and the way the weather is going,i don't think i'll be in too much of a rush either =(

[jrandom]

i haven't had any real time on it yet,and the way the weather is going,i don't think i'll be in too much of a rush either =(

www.motott.co.nz

:niceone:

[2 wheel madness]

how is the wear pattern on the tyres??

When i first got the aprilia it had reasonable tread (diablos) but didnt feel very stable on some corners, rear tyre was ever so slightly squared and front triangle a bit but pretty minor, put new rubber on it (same brand / size etc) and holy shit it was a new bike!!! all of a sudden felt planted and confidence inspiring through the corners

[naphazoline]

how is the wear pattern on the tyres??

When i first got the aprilia it had reasonable tread (diablos) but didnt feel very stable on some corners, rear tyre was ever so slightly squared and front triangle a bit but pretty minor, put new rubber on it (same brand / size etc) and holy shit it was a new bike!!! all of a sudden felt planted and confidence inspiring through the corners

yeah good point.the rear is starting to square off quite a bit,and the front has barely any "triangling" at all.the tyres aren't quite ready to chuck away yet,so for now i'll get things as close as i can with the set up.but at the rate i clock up the miles,it wont be too long before i get a new rear.

on the up side,the weather gods must have liked me after all.it cleared up around 11:30am,so i went on a reasonable ride.(about 200+kms)
i found the front end adjustments have made a pleasant difference :clap:,but the rear was still quite hard in compression.
i've backed off the comp' a little,and let a couple of psi off the rear tyre.
i'm picking that this should be closer to the result i'm looking for.

[Gremlin]

i found the front end adjustments have made a pleasant difference :clap:,but the rear was still quite hard in compression.
i've backed off the comp' a little,and let a couple of psi off the rear tyre.
i'm picking that this should be closer to the result i'm looking for.
Now that you are getting deeper into adjustments... remember, the front and rear of the bike have to work in harmony. Having one right, and the other wrong, it won't work. You can't have one stiff and one soft either.

Also, probably aim to keep your pressures near the recommended for the bike.

Having stiff suspension and then dropping the tyre pressure to "fix" it will mean that the suspension won't be doing its job, and the tyres will have extra work to do, resulting in excessive wear.

Its a delicate balancing job that can some people weeks to get it just to their liking. Me... I fix major problems, like sticky forks, get the shop to set it up for a weight a bit less than mine, then ride the bastard! :ride:

[naphazoline]

Now that you are getting deeper into adjustments... remember, the front and rear of the bike have to work in harmony. Having one right, and the other wrong, it won't work. You can't have one stiff and one soft either.

i understand that and that's my aim.to even out the front and back.
after a few rides,and a couple of adjustments,i found the rear to be too hard for the front,so i made the changes mentioned in the end of my last post,which i'm hoping to try out today:cool:

[MSTRS]

When adjusting the suspension to work together....
Best to have 2 people, one straddles the bike, but standing, and hold up with thighs, then press down hard and sharp on the top of the tank just in front of their waist. The other person must have a quick eye and just observes what both ends of the bike do. It should go down an equal amount back and front, at the same rate and rebound exactly the same. A tendency for one end to move differently should be obvious, in which case adjust as appropriate.

[naphazoline]

When adjusting the suspension to work together....
Best to have 2 people, one straddles the bike, but standing, and hold up with thighs, then press down hard and sharp on the top of the tank just in front of their waist. The other person must have a quick eye and just observes what both ends of the bike do. It should go down an equal amount back and front, at the same rate and rebound exactly the same. A tendency for one end to move differently should be obvious, in which case adjust as appropriate.


done/doing that.ehich has lead me to where i'm at now.i just got to wait for some :sunny:

[klyong82]

done/doing that.ehich has lead me to where i'm at now.i just got to wait for some :sunny:

Yes I found the rear of my blade hard to get the suspension right. Have got it professionally set by it is still a little stiff. But mind you I weigh as light as a feather so I think an ohlins will be my only hope in correcting the problem.

[naphazoline]

Yes I found the rear of my blade hard to get the suspension right. Have got it professionally set by it is still a little stiff. But mind you I weigh as light as a feather so I think an ohlins will be my only hope in correcting the problem.

i weigh heaps and it still feels a little stiff in the rear.

been out for another scoot today after making the adjustments mentioned earlier,and it's better than ever,but still on the hard side in the rear.

guess i'll just have to live with it for now,as there's no way i could warrant forking out(no pun intended) for ohlins.

[MSTRS]

guess i'll just have to live with it for now,as there's no way i could warrant forking out(no pun intended) for ohlins.

You mean the shock would be too much for your wallet? :bleh:
You need to find out what part is creating the stiffness. Too heavy a spring for your weight? Too much preload wound on? Does your shock have adjustment for compression and rebound damping...one or both is up too much?

[naphazoline]

You mean the shock would be too much for your wallet? :bleh:
You need to find out what part is creating the stiffness. Too heavy a spring for your weight? Too much preload wound on? Does your shock have adjustment for compression and rebound damping...one or both is up too much?

yeah...definitely too much for my wallet.i'd rather spend that sort of money on a power commander,can,and a custom fuel map =). i don't really ride hard enough to justify ohlins either.in fact,to be honest,i'm finding it a hard bike to get used to,in comparison to others i've ridden,but they've all been smaller to some degree or another.

the back shock has comp' and rebound adjustment,and the spring has adjustablity too.
i do need to be careful that i'm not confusing the shocks stiffness with the sparse seat padding.
i've noticed that when i'm off the bike and pushing down on the rear,it does compress much more than it feels when sitting/riding on it.

[pritch]

A while back I posted some comments from BIKE re sport touring tyres.

Somewhat at various with the ratings given in this thread but then the tester wasn't riding on our roads.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=78576&highlight=Tyre+test

I also have the results of their sports tyre item too, in fact I thought I'd posted that too but can't find it. (It's terrible getting old...)

The majority hereabout may not particularly like the results though...

[pritch]

Was going to edit my last but then noticed my post count...

I posted the brief (very) version of BIKES sports tyre test here:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=85203

[naphazoline]

great stuff there pritch..the "Z6" doesn't fair too badly on that first test.
but all the same,i wouldn't mind trying something else when i get a new rear.
at least that way i can start making some comparisons for myself.
after all, one mans medicne can be another mans poison.(otherwise we'd all be on the same tyres)

[MSTRS]

great stuff there pritch..the "Z6" doesn't fair too badly on that first test.


I had Z6s on my GSXR1100 - done over 10,000kms when I sold the bike. Rear (180/55) was squaring off and I never got to the edge. Liked them, but wouldn't consider on them on 600/750 or even a modern 1000 sports bike.

[Tony.OK]

yeah...definitely too much for my wallet.i'd rather spend that sort of money on a power commander,can,and a custom fuel map =). i don't really ride hard enough to justify ohlins either.in fact,to be honest,i'm finding it a hard bike to get used to,in comparison to others i've ridden,but they've all been smaller to some degree or another.

the back shock has comp' and rebound adjustment,and the spring has adjustablity too.
i do need to be careful that i'm not confusing the shocks stiffness with the sparse seat padding.
i've noticed that when i'm off the bike and pushing down on the rear,it does compress much more than it feels when sitting/riding on it.

In all honesty dude do you need more power riding on the road? You say that you aren't an aggresive rider so why search for more HP? A "can" I understand totally, they are too quiet with stock one. If you want a boost in HP just whack a 15 tooth front sprocket on($40), its as good as a 20 hp gain in fun value.
Having good suspension has nothing to do with riding hard, it took me a long time to realize the value of having great suspension over HP, add up the list of HP acc you are looking at and thats enough to get a quality shock, no amount of fiddling with the stock one will make it good.

[pritch]

i don't really ride hard enough to justify ohlins either.

Probably not *that* many of us do. As Robert Taylor says most of his sales are not to racers but to road riders.

My Ohlins is normally set to "full comfy" but I can change that in seconds if I want to go for ride to Whangamomona, or a track day, or carry luggage, or a pillion, or whatever tf.

[naphazoline]

In all honesty dude do you need more power riding on the road? You say that you aren't an aggresive rider so why search for more HP? A "can" I understand totally, they are too quiet with stock one. If you want a boost in HP just whack a 15 tooth front sprocket on($40), its as good as a 20 hp gain in fun value.
Having good suspension has nothing to do with riding hard, it took me a long time to realize the value of having great suspension over HP, add up the list of HP acc you are looking at and thats enough to get a quality shock, no amount of fiddling with the stock one will make it good.

o.k....well maybe you mis enterpreted my definition of aggressive. i have my moments,and it's not so much the hp i'm after,i have other reasons for those mod's.my little trick to saving on the costs of the mod's is in the can.i know a guy who hand makes custom cans for a fraction of what the big names charge,and he's pretty damn good at making exactly what you want.

[Shaun]

If you guys had seen a Michelin Front tyre I saw at a track day last week, you would all run away from ever using a Michelin again, there quality has become JUNK, and they are NOT the tyre they once were

[NZsarge]

If you guys had seen a Michelin Front tyre I saw at a track day last week, you would all run away from ever using a Michelin again, there quality has become JUNK, and they are NOT the tyre they once were

I'm not sure of what Michelin you refere or if you speak of Michelin's in general but for my purposes if find them an awesome tyre (PP 2CT), particularly the front as the centre's of the rears still tend to wear out too fast for my like but then again i've got that complaint with most tyre i've run so...

[DEATH_INC.]

And that's all you need to know :) I know this - 190/50 is a tyre for high milage. The flatter profile gives more contact in the centre of the tyre which is good for durability, but turn in is not as good. 180/55 on the correct size rim will steer better than 190/55 on the same rim. the reason is that the 190/55 causes the contact patch to shift further to the inside on the bike, and steering is reduces because of that ( it shortens the lever on the gravitational axis blah blah blah). Racers use 190/55 (and 190/60) because of the better exit grip, but we spend quite a lot of time trying to get the bikes to steer with the bigger tyre.
Um, NO! Completely the opposite, the bike turns in better, but takes more effort to do so.

[DEATH_INC.]

We've debated this topic to death on Gixxer.com, it really seems there's no huge advantages/disadvantages either way....just run what you like.
I've even run a 200/50 on the srad, and don't see too many people going past me, and the ZX12 was definately better with the 200.

[Shaun]

Um, NO! Completely the opposite, the bike turns in better, but takes more effort to do so.



I agree with what Mishy has said mate. I was the first in NZ a few years back to use the 190 on a 5.5 rim in the race scene

The 190 made the turn in more tricky, but the exit grip was heaps better, putting the 190 on a 5.5 rim, alters the correct profile of the tyre, where when the bike is on its side, it is giving you a bigger foot print of contact rubber to the road, simislr to using the 16.5 rim

Also the 180 V 190 will alter your ride height and gearing ratio, as the circumference is different as well, so if you like your current geometery/handling, you may need to alter the rear height back to your current settings if you change tyres, so take a messurement from your rear sub frame to your swingarm before changing tyres, so you have the reference to re set ride too

[Taz]

My bike came with a 180 fitted but I replaced that with a 170 for better handling. Was harder to turn in with the 180. Standard fittment is a 170/60x17.

[naphazoline]

I agree with what Mishy has said mate. I was the first in NZ a few years back to use the 190 on a 5.5 rim in the race scene

The 190 made the turn in more tricky, but the exit grip was heaps better, putting the 190 on a 5.5 rim, alters the correct profile of the tyre, where when the bike is on its side, it is giving you a bigger foot print of contact rubber to the road, simislr to using the 16.5 rim

Also the 180 V 190 will alter your ride height and gearing ratio, as the circumference is different as well, so if you like your current geometery/handling, you may need to alter the rear height back to your current settings if you change tyres, so take a messurement from your rear sub frame to your swingarm before changing tyres, so you have the reference to re set ride too

thanks shaun.good info there mate.i've made a log of all the measurements when i set up the susp',for future references,and you've answered a question of mine on the gear ratio thing:cool:

[Mishy]

Um, NO! Completely the opposite, the bike turns in better, but takes more effort to do so.

You contradict yourself, and so does all the data from every tyre manufacturer I could mention.
Consider this - if it takes more effort to turn in, is that better ? and how does this all relate to the mid turn radius a bike will hold for a given lean angle ?
Simple truth is this - if it takes a lot more effort to initiate a turn, then the bike is just not steering as well - simple.
I stand by what I said - the science behind it is correct.

[naphazoline]

after a long time thinking about it,and wearing out the Z6s i had on,it finally come time to get a new set of feet.

i rang the shop today,to ask for their recommendation,as reading through the assorted tyre threads on here,only got me confuseed as to which sort to get.

there's no doubt about it,there's some great info from a lot of people on here,but at the end of the day,each person has their own preference,and between them there's a lot of different types of bikes.
now what might work good on a cruiser,may be totally wrong for me.not to say that particular brand/model of tyre isn't good.
also,it obviously depends on what you are going to use your bike for. race,commute,tour,.....e.t.c.
and i'm starting to get away from commuting,and get more into fun riding.

initially,they recommended michelin pilot sport,but when i got there,they talked me into a pair of metzeler M3s. 180/55/17,and 120/70/17.
so i've clocked up 200kms this afternoon,to see what they're like.

certainly a lot nicer cornering then Z6s.they feel a whole lot smoother tipping in,and changing direction :) and it's not the change in profile,as i ran a Z6 180/55/17 for a while till the front was ready to change.
they're definitely a step up from what i had,and will give me something to compare to, when i get the next set.(which i hope to go sportier)

[MSTRS]

certainly a lot nicer cornering then Z6s.they feel a whole lot smoother tipping in,and changing direction :) and it's not the change in profile,as i ran a Z6

Nothing wrong with your choice, but I have to say that more-or-less any new tyre is gonna feel great compared to the worn carcase you just replaced.
The only way you can really know what the different tyres feel like is to ride back-to-back identical bikes all set up the same except each has a different brand/model of tyres. And the tyres must all be the same amount of scrub....

[naphazoline]

Nothing wrong with your choice, but I have to say that more-or-less any new tyre is gonna feel great compared to the worn carcase you just replaced.
The only way you can really know what the different tyres feel like is to ride back-to-back identical bikes all set up the same except each has a different brand/model of tyres. And the tyres must all be the same amount of scrub....

it just so happens,that the rear i replaced was only 2 weeks old.

now you might be wondering.....hmm.whats he doing replacing a 2 week old tyre?

well,i hadn't quite finished my front,(which evidently was an M3),and also i thought it was better to get them done now,rather then right in the middle of christmas.
also,i had organised with a mate.that i would sell him the tyre when i got a new set.only done about 1500kms on it :)

[Pussy]

Haven't read all the thread.... BUT, I wouldn't go fitting a 180 to a 6" rim... not good practice

[MSTRS]

Haven't read all the thread.... BUT, I wouldn't go fitting a 180 to a 6" rim... not good practice

This again? It is not a problem. There is only 5mm difference each side of centre between a 180/190 in any given brand. The individual brand and it's particular profile is much more 'critical' because none of them measure exactly the same as the other brands anyway. (by that I mean that the Conmetzilen UberGrip 180 is the same width profile as the AvoBridge Megamile 190)

[naphazoline]

Haven't read all the thread.... BUT, I wouldn't go fitting a 180 to a 6" rim... not good practice

oops....my bad.
i've already fitted that profile,but on the shops recommendation.

[jrandom]

Many shops are staffed by morons.

I start with the tyre size the manufacturer specs for the bike, and take it from there.

[naphazoline]

Many shops are staffed by morons..


that's easy fixed.....don't go to many shops ;)

[stify]

don't have any probs with tip in on the 190/50 spec tyre's on me blade, have just stuck a set of m1's on it and find it easier to ride than the rosso's that came off it(second set,cause i just had to make sure an all) but each to there own, still I would't fit a 180 tyre to a rim spec'd for a 190..

[klyong82]

don't have any probs with tip in on the 190/50 spec tyre's on me blade, have just stuck a set of m1's on it and find it easier to ride than the rosso's that came off it(second set,cause i just had to make sure an all) but each to there own, still I would't fit a 180 tyre to a rim spec'd for a 190..

How do you find the m1's on ya blade?

[stify]

How do you find the m1's on ya blade?

I like the tyres for the type on riding I do, I prefer the more round style profile the front has compaired with the rosso's, slower to tip in but nice and progressive, rear grip seems good wet or dry, havn't had a quick trip on them yet, but for an older generation tyre it's a pretty good road riding tyre considering the price(Go see mike at Drury Performance Centre for a good deal)

[naphazoline]

have just stuck a set of m1's on it and find it easier to ride than the rosso's that came off it


when i got my blade,it had a knackered set of rosso's that i immediately exchanged for an M3 front and an Z6 rear.

i think that was my problem all along.IMO,the Z6 is a shit tyre for my bike and riding style.the profile on them looks odd to say the least.

the M3s are a much rounder profile,but next time around,i'd like to try the M1s,and also i'll be going back to a 190.

[MGST]

K I was reading this last night and people saying you can get this but not that tyre in 190/55. Most of you were on about Pirelli's, Bridgestones, Michelins, Metzlers etc. I just picked up a 2004 CBR1000RR. It's got Dunlop Sportmax GP Racer M ( meduim ) ( front - 120/70ZR17 ) and Dunlop Sportmax GP Racer E ( endurance ) ( rear - 190/55ZR17 ) tyres on it. So theres another one you can get in 190/55.

http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.co.uk/tyres/ranges/roadRadial/gpRacerD209/

That's all, just fyi.

[portokiwi]

I just put some 190/50/17. and 170/20/17 metzler roadtec z4s I think they are great best grip I have had on the bike so far. I had Bridgestone before that which were good but splipped a bit.

[MSTRS]

I just put some 190/50/17. and 170/20/17 metzler roadtec z4s I think they are great best grip I have had on the bike so far. I had Bridgestone before that which were good but splipped a bit.

Do you mean Z6? Or Mez4? Z6 superceded the Mez4 and is a better tyre all round. There is also a new generation Z6...http://www.metzelermoto.com/web/products/newproducts/roadtec_z6/default.page

[Southern Biker]

My 86 Gsxr1100 currently has a 160/60 on the back , I'm wondering if thats as big as I can go? Anyone know for sure>

[Bladeslapper109]

Many shops are staffed by morons.

I start with the tyre size the manufacturer specs for the bike, and take it from there.

Second that.

Cycle treads changed my chain and sprokets. I asked for standard sizes.
I get a rear sprocket 8 teeth more on the rear on a 250 2 cyclinder gsx.
those bike are pretty much at red line as it is at 120km/hr.

pilot powers are the best tyres i have ever had for sport bikes for road use. Commuting and twisties every day

[naphazoline]

I'm now on my second set of Metzeler M3s since i started this thread,( 120/70/17 front,and 180/55/17 rear ),and VERY pleased with them.

No problems in any conditions.

[Sensei]

Hope to catch up for a ride with you sometime :soon:

[naphazoline]

Hope to catch up for a ride with you sometime :soon:


Oh...I'll be easy to catch.Just ask Grizz.I ride like a nana.:laugh:

But seriously,i'll be keen for that.I'm always looking for an excuse to go riding.(And meeting new,like minded people.)

I'll just have to work it in with my shiftwork,and the shite weather around here.

[Bladeslapper109]

I'm now on my second set of Metzeler M3s since i started this thread,( 120/70/17 front,and 180/55/17 rear ),and VERY pleased with them.

No problems in any conditions.

What prices do you pay for M3's? Are they duel compound?
Have you ever had Pilot powers?

I dont think its possible to ride a blade like a nana is it

[naphazoline]

What prices do you pay for M3's? Are they duel compound?
Have you ever had Pilot powers?

I dont think its possible to ride a blade like a nana is it

$610
was the cheapest i could find around here.(that's not fitted.)
No they're not a duel compound,but i can get about 15000kms out of a front.
Nah...I haven't had the PP's.

After 20+ years of not riding,then doing 4500kms on an old school bike,and then stepping up to the blade,lets just say i'm a bit tentative.:shifty:

[klyong82]

What prices do you pay for M3's? Are they duel compound?
Have you ever had Pilot powers?

I dont think its possible to ride a blade like a nana is it

I got Michelin's PP2CT on my 05 blade. It is the duel compound tyres and turns into bends as quick as Conti tyres. Done 4500km on them front still has 3mm and rear 2mm to go.

Go and see Cycletreads and see if they will do a deal for you. Expect to pay more for the 190 size rear than the 180.

Agreed, with any 1000cc bike the amount of power it generates dont think it is built for nana riding.

[Bladeslapper109]

I got Michelin's PP2CT on my 05 blade. It is the duel compound tyres and turns into bends as quick as Conti tyres. Done 4500km on them front still has 3mm and rear 2mm to go.

Go and see Cycletreads and see if they will do a deal for you. Expect to pay more for the 190 size rear than the 180.

Agreed, with any 1000cc bike the amount of power it generates dont think it is built for nana riding.

Yea i got them fitted for $600 PP2's

my power is shit i reckon. If im cruzing at 100km/hr im only ever in 4th geear but i know my rear is the standard 40 tooth. Unsure of front but surely must bbe geared to high.

4th 100km/hr about 4600revs roughly
What gear rev's you getting?

[CTD]

my power is shit i reckon. If im cruzing at 100km/hr im only ever in 4th geear but i know my rear is the standard 40 tooth. Unsure of front but surely must bbe geared to high.

4th 100km/hr about 4600revs roughly
What gear rev's you getting?

it sounds like you're stock geared (16/40)
Im on my 2nd set of m3's, they're allmost shagged at just under 4000km.

[naphazoline]

Those revs sound about right for stock gearing to me.

4000rpm in top is 100km for me,but the 06/07 is a little different to the 04/05 models.

[DEATH_INC.]

You contradict yourself, and so does all the data from every tyre manufacturer I could mention.
Consider this - if it takes more effort to turn in, is that better ? and how does this all relate to the mid turn radius a bike will hold for a given lean angle ?
Simple truth is this - if it takes a lot more effort to initiate a turn, then the bike is just not steering as well - simple.
I stand by what I said - the science behind it is correct.

How the hell do you figure that out??????
If you apply no effort the bike goes straight. if you apply x amount of effort you get x turning. If the bike needs x effort for less lean that's because its turning more.
The bigger tyre sits the bike onto the edge of the front tyre more, hence faster (not easier) turn-in. It's simple.

[DEATH_INC.]

The 190 made the turn in more tricky,
Can you clarify what you mean by 'tricky'?

[Tony.OK]

Can you clarify what you mean by 'tricky'?

Having a 190 on a 5.5 rim squashes the tyre into a taller profile, that can make the turn in aggresive, because the tyre is pointier you basically fall into the turn, but once your over, there is greater grip through a larger contact patch.

[DEATH_INC.]

Having a 190 on a 5.5 rim squashes the tyre into a taller profile, that can make the turn in aggresive, because the tyre is pointier you basically fall into the turn, but once your over, there is greater grip through a larger contact patch.
And the bad part is?????

[Peter Smith]

Having a 190 on a 5.5 rim squashes the tyre into a taller profile, that can make the turn in aggresive, because the tyre is pointier you basically fall into the turn, but once your over, there is greater grip through a larger contact patch.

Hi Tony,
I heard some racing guys were trying 190's on their 600's with 5.5" rims. What's your opinion??
I have a GSXR1100 with a 5.5" wide rim do you think a 190 tyre would be better on the track than a 180???

[klyong82]

Yea i got them fitted for $600 PP2's

my power is shit i reckon. If im cruzing at 100km/hr im only ever in 4th geear but i know my rear is the standard 40 tooth. Unsure of front but surely must bbe geared to high.

4th 100km/hr about 4600revs roughly
What gear rev's you getting?

I'll need a rear tyre soon and I am looking at getting another PP2.

I think that sounds pretty stock in my opinion 16 front and 40 rear. I gone down to 15 in the front gives me alittle bit more acceleration power (wheelie power) but it sacrifices top speed. More fun and very common for the 04-05 mod.

[Bladeslapper109]

I'll need a rear tyre soon and I am looking at getting another PP2.

I think that sounds pretty stock in my opinion 16 front and 40 rear. I gone down to 15 in the front gives me alittle bit more acceleration power (wheelie power) but it sacrifices top speed. More fun and very common for the 04-05 mod.

Im getting about 3600 rev in top at 100..

LOL, less top speed, I been 255 (controlled conditions of course) and i dont think i was even in 6th? Might be wrong on that thou. still had heaps to go anyway but ran out of track

[DEATH_INC.]

Hi Tony,
I heard some racing guys were trying 190's on their 600's with 5.5" rims. What's your opinion??
I have a GSXR1100 with a 5.5" wide rim do you think a 190 tyre would be better on the track than a 180???
There'd be a couple of advantages for ya, with the masses of GRUNT those things made it'd help put it down better when you're cranked over, plus the added advantage of lifting the rear (steepening the rake and helping initial turn-in) and giving a bit more ground clearance. I guess the disadvantages would be a bit more effort to get it right over (those things are big and heavy enough as it is!) and maybe a little more tyre flex....also will it fit in the arm without hitting the front? Some of those old things were a little tight for room and the 190/55 (don't use a 50 on a 5.5) is a fair bit taller...
And to answer the first part of ya question as stated earlier the guy in aus my mate worked with (top ten in s/s over there) shaved around 5 sec a lap going from a 180 to a 190 with no other changes....

[klyong82]

Im getting about 3600 rev in top at 100..

LOL, less top speed, I been 255 (controlled conditions of course) and i dont think i was even in 6th? Might be wrong on that thou. still had heaps to go anyway but ran out of track

Mines is about 4000rpm on top cruising at 100. Its loud too...I got yoshi and PC3 and a speedohealer to recailibrate the speedo..

[Bladeslapper109]

Mines is about 4000rpm on top cruising at 100. Its loud too...I got yoshi and PC3 and a speedohealer to recailibrate the speedo..

How does a speedo healer work?

[Peter Smith]

There'd be a couple of advantages for ya, with the masses of GRUNT those things made it'd help put it down better when you're cranked over, plus the added advantage of lifting the rear (steepening the rake and helping initial turn-in) and giving a bit more ground clearance. I guess the disadvantages would be a bit more effort to get it right over (those things are big and heavy enough as it is!) and maybe a little more tyre flex....also will it fit in the arm without hitting the front? Some of those old things were a little tight for room and the 190/55 (don't use a 50 on a 5.5) is a fair bit taller...
And to answer the first part of ya question as stated earlier the guy in aus my mate worked with (top ten in s/s over there) shaved around 5 sec a lap going from a 180 to a 190 with no other changes....

Thanks Dude,
Sounds like its worth a try. I was having trouble at Taupo getting to flick from one side to the other through the infield, bloody heavy bike.
Cheers Mate

[Peter Smith]

I agree with what Mishy has said mate. I was the first in NZ a few years back to use the 190 on a 5.5 rim in the race scene

The 190 made the turn in more tricky, but the exit grip was heaps better, putting the 190 on a 5.5 rim, alters the correct profile of the tyre, where when the bike is on its side, it is giving you a bigger foot print of contact rubber to the road, simislr to using the 16.5 rim


Hi Shaun,
With the 190 on a 5.5 rim, what was it like flicking from left to right etc.
I got an 89 GSXR1100 with a 180 slick on a 5.5 rim and it is a bit slow in changing direction. e.g. Puke Jenian into Castrol, and at taupo's infeild.
Wouldn't the 190 be harder to flick from one side to the other because the center diameter would be bigger??

[klyong82]

How does a speedo healer work?

A piece of gadget that attached to your ECU and the other to the battery i think and if I make any changes like tyre from 190 to 180 or different tooth sprocket that may alter the speedo accuracy...just go to their website and push in the variables and they will show you the instructions to recalibrate back to the right speed.

Have a read...
http://www.healtech-electronics.com/

[naphazoline]

A piece of gadget that attached to your ECU and the other to the battery i think and if I make any changes like tyre from 190 to 180 or different tooth sprocket that may alter the speedo accuracy...just go to their website and push in the variables and they will show you the instructions to recalibrate back to the right speed.

Have a read...
http://www.healtech-electronics.com/

How much for a speedo healer??

[Bladeslapper109]

So is the speedo read out off ur normal speedo or the other gaget?

[klyong82]

How much for a speedo healer??

I cannot remember exactly but I think it was about $200


So is the speedo read out off ur normal speedo or the other gaget?

normal speedo
bro.....check the pics out.

[Bladeslapper109]

oh yea how easy is it to install?

[klyong82]

oh yea how easy is it to install?

Took about 45 mins. Had to connect it to the speedo sensor and not ECU as I mention before. IF you are handy in wiring and electrics then should not be an issue in installing it yourself. I had a mate help me.

edit: why would you need a speedohealer if you have stock gearing and tyres? Your speedo should be only out by up to 5% due to the factory error. Mine was out by 10% after the gearing change plus the factory error.

[roogazza]

Hi Shaun,
With the 190 on a 5.5 rim, what was it like flicking from left to right etc.
I got an 89 GSXR1100 with a 180 slick on a 5.5 rim and it is a bit slow in changing direction. e.g. Puke Jenian into Castrol, and at taupo's infeild.
Wouldn't the 190 be harder to flick from one side to the other because the center diameter would be bigger??

I'm running a 190.55 on the rear of my bandit at present and being taller, the steering is sped up , probably too much now as I run a 25mm longer shock as well. It may just suit the 1100 and I'm told a TLR 6.0 rim will fit yours as well.
I'll probably return to a 180,but the comparison was interesting. Gaz.

[Bladeslapper109]

I was interested for future reference. Plan to lower the gearing a lot as i never use 5 or 6 gear,