CR80 or XR100R for beginner?

[oldskool]

It's time to upgrade the kid's DS80. I have a choice of a '86 CR80 or a '88 XR100R, they're about the same price.
? on the XR because it hasn't been started for some time. CR has front disc brake and is supposedly a good runner.
Kids are 10 and 12. They're non aggressive but highly capable.
Can the CR burble around the track or would it oil up? I hear they are gutless in low revs but are kickarse up high. They're slightly lighter than the XR100. Are they just as reliable? Will I have no end of problems with the motor/cooling system? Would it be suitable for beginners or should I go with the XR100?
Any pearls of wisdom anyone?

[honda_power]

cr80s a mx bike. def the 100 if they are begginners. no way the cr is as reliable as the xr, it will need piston changes, filter cleans every ride, gearbox oil all the time etc just like any mx bike. the 100 will hardly need any work at all. front disc isnt a big deal.

the suspension on the cr is a big deal though. if they are starting to try jumping or anything like that then go with the cr if you dont mind doing regular maintanace

[oldskool]

Hey thanks for that Honda_Power,
In my insanity I was thinking of using the CR as is until it died and then doing a 4st motor conversion on it. The other mad reasoning I had was I could have a bit of fun on it too, hp close to my XR200R (+/-20hp) but the CR hitting yah in one big rush.
But I think you're right even tho the CR prob handles better on a MX track most/all of our riding would be bush.
I'll have to make sure the XR100R starts first up!

[cheese]

They will be able to do more on teh CR, but as its a MX bike and its age its probably been thrashed.

[oldskool]

They will be able to do more on teh CR, but as its a MX bike and its age its probably been thrashed.
Yeah it's a hard one. I just passed up the chance to buy a KX80 '98 for $800, again MX and prolly been caned. Seat height of 820mm and kids are prolly a wee bit young (shorter). Ideally a seat height of 720mm would be sweet. I think the XR100 is around 740ish so even then may have to somehow lower the rear shocky anyhows.

[Reckless]

From what I can guess? It entirely depends on your aims or more to the point the kids dreams.

1/- If they have MX posters all over their rooms of guys doing jumps and racing. Get the MX bike and join RMCC and do their club days etc. Still treat it as no pressure fun time but guide him towards his dream.

2/- If they just enjoy a poodle with dad at the sandpit or Mr moto rides get the XR!

Depends if they are twist of the wrist type kids that don't mind paying the price of going fast or jumping with a fall! or are happy with the challenge of X country!
Is he ringing the shit outa that DS80 or has he just outgrown it?? Your the best judge!

[oldskool]

I think I'm swinging around to the Reliability over Performance way of thinking.
His posters on wall are hollywood action blockbusters and rock bands. It's actually his younger sister that is keener, she's right into horses and riding anything that moves. He'd be more comfortable laid back on a cruiser. She's more likely to try for more air. Yeah XR100 I reckon.

[B0000M]

to me, remembering back with me and my mates, some of us had XR100s, some had DS80s, they are more or less a match for eachother, so in my view a XR100 is just a move sideways in that your neither upgrading or downgrading from the DS.

my suggestion- keep the DS for now as they are a perfectly capable bike and maybe save for a while and get a 85cc MX bike or a CRF150 or something newer.

1 thing ive learnt with bikes, is the newer the better. less things wearing means less to spend.

[Ktmboy]

It's time to upgrade the kid's DS80. I have a choice of a '86 CR80 or a '88 XR100R, they're about the same price.
? on the XR because it hasn't been started for some time. CR has front disc brake and is supposedly a good runner.
Kids are 10 and 12. They're non aggressive but highly capable.
Can the CR burble around the track or would it oil up? I hear they are gutless in low revs but are kickarse up high. They're slightly lighter than the XR100. Are they just as reliable? Will I have no end of problems with the motor/cooling system? Would it be suitable for beginners or should I go with the XR100?
Any pearls of wisdom anyone?

Sounds like your Kids are riding already. The next step up(if they want to go forward) would be an MX bike.

The CR80 do not have a power valve and therefore are very aggressive on the power band.

My choice from experience would be a Kawasaki KX85 (and you can get big or small wheel) as they are quite smooth compared to a CR80 and have a good bottom end that allows you to potter around all day if need be.:2thumbsup

Basically the same model from the early 2000's so they are proven.

Rupecop will back this up as well as he has gone down this path.

[oldskool]

Good points BOOOOM,

The DS is fine but he's dragging his feet a lot and not leaving them on the pegs. I'm figuring he's too big for it now. I'm not 100% but I think the XR100 is slightly taller.
The DS is fine for her but I was thinking about usable power in the lower end, my thinking was the XR100 may have a broader range extending lower. But you're speaking from experience... do you reckon they are about the same at the lower end?
I read somewhere that the CRF100 frame and motor are the same as the XR100 and it's just a plastics kit pimping it up, my wife had a go on a CRF100 and liked it so yeah, plenty of thoughts going into the mix.

[clmintie]

I think I'm swinging around to the Reliability over Performance way of thinking.
His posters on wall are hollywood action blockbusters and rock bands. It's actually his younger sister that is keener, she's right into horses and riding anything that moves. He'd be more comfortable laid back on a cruiser. She's more likely to try for more air. Yeah XR100 I reckon.




She'll be right at home on the Glen Murray trail ride then... Taken last year...

[oldskool]

She'll be right at home on the Glen Murray trail ride then... Taken last year...
YES, she'd want to ride the horse and the bike if she were there!

[oldskool]

My choice from experience would be a Kawasaki KX85 (and you can get big or small wheel) as they are quite smooth compared to a CR80 and have a good bottom end that allows you to potter around all day if need be.
Bugger maybe I should have got this KX80 for $815 when I had the chance last night?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=184070628

[dammad1]

She'll be right at home on the Glen Murray trail ride then... Taken last year...

That was a good ride and those girls on the horses were going faster than most were going on their bikes.

[Ktmboy]

Bugger maybe I should have got this KX80 for $815 when I had the chance last night?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=184070628

Try for the 85cc if you can. Far better option.

[oldskool]

Try for the 85cc if you can. Far better option.
whew thanks :rolleyes: hate to think I missed out on a deal!

[honda_power]

whew thanks :rolleyes: hate to think I missed out on a deal!

dont rush out and buy something... take your time, reasearch the prices that the bikes go for, then find a good deal. I have rushed out and brought a bike before, and regretted it.

I agree with what others are saying, if your going 2 stroke mx, get an 85 over an 80.

Perhaps you could find someone with one that would let your kids have a go... its quite a big step up, and they may not like it, as they dont suit putting around.

[oldskool]

Hey I appreciate all the advice guys.


I agree with what others are saying, if your going 2 stroke mx, get an 85 over an 80.

What differences can there be in 5 squirts? Is it like crossing the line into something more serious?

[Ktmboy]

dont rush out and buy something... take your time, reasearch the prices that the bikes go for, then find a good deal. I have rushed out and brought a bike before, and regretted it.

I agree with what others are saying, if your going 2 stroke mx, get an 85 over an 80.

Perhaps you could find someone with one that would let your kids have a go... its quite a big step up, and they may not like it, as they dont suit putting around.

Sorry honda_power but they do suit putting around on. We've had 3 of these and as long as they are jetted right and have a good plug then they are no different from any other.

Ours get used for arrowing and marking tracks out all the time. My son even likes to go bush bashing now...god bless his little heart.

[Ktmboy]

Hey I appreciate all the advice guys.



What differences can there be in 5 squirts? Is it like crossing the line into something more serious?

Different motor. Much more reliable and more usable across a wider power range.

I think you will find they are a totally different bike to ride.

[B0000M]

Hey I appreciate all the advice guys.



What differences can there be in 5 squirts? Is it like crossing the line into something more serious?

the difference mostly is the age of the bikes, the difference that the actual 5cc makes is bugger all. with the new size came better design thats all.

i think also from memory the xr is a slightly taller bike and also has bigger wheels and felt quite long for such a low height bike.

my bikes in order of how i got them is this Z50 age 7 or 8, then a XR100 when i was 8 or 9, then when i was 10 i got a smallwheel 80, 11 a big wheel 80, 13 a CR125


couldnt tell you how big i was at any of those times, but when i went from the XR to the CR, i thought it was fucken awesome.

if they are fairly thrashing the DS then they shouldnt have any trouble riding the 80 / 85, itl take a bit of getting used to , but fortunately when you're a kid it doesnt really hurt that bad when you come off for some reason and it doesnt affect your family's income!!

have a go i reckon is the best bet.


also something of note, if they get too hooked on the awesomeness of 2strokes they are going to grow up to be disappointed as by the time they hit their late teens id say there will be no more 2 strokes being made by anyone - most of the jappas have stopped allready. so im not sure what CRF150s or whoever else makes an eqivalent are going for but that could be a direction worth looknig into

[mattwood]

but fortunately when you're a kid it doesnt really hurt that bad when you come off for some reason and it doesnt affect your family's income!!

sure it does, mum had to take the morning off to get me to the docters today :doh: now im hobbling round on crutches with a huge ass knee brace.. stupid metal drain covers hidden under the long grass..

anyway, yeah CR80s are good fun to hoon around on, my mates one took so much punishment from us it wasnt funny! The power band is abit vicious at first when your not expecting it, but once you get the hang of it its no trouble! think his CR was a 91 though? only thing that ever went wrong or broke was when he was ringing it out in top gear down the road, blew a hole in the expansion chamber LOL! Ive ridden an XR100 as well, think kids would get bored pretty quick on one tho! But it would still teach them the skills i guess.

BTW if your interested im pretty sure my mates is selling that CR80, give me a PM if you are interested and ill give you his phone number

[B0000M]

now im hobbling round on crutches with a huge ass knee brace..

been there done that.

i hope your ready for a lifetime of aches on cold mornings....

[mattwood]

been there done that.

i hope your ready for a lifetime of aches on cold mornings....

far, i hope not..

[honda_power]

the difference mostly is the age of the bikes, the difference that the actual 5cc makes is bugger all. with the new size came better design thats all.

i think also from memory the xr is a slightly taller bike and also has bigger wheels and felt quite long for such a low height bike.

my bikes in order of how i got them is this Z50 age 7 or 8, then a XR100 when i was 8 or 9, then when i was 10 i got a smallwheel 80, 11 a big wheel 80, 13 a CR125


couldnt tell you how big i was at any of those times, but when i went from the XR to the CR, i thought it was fucken awesome.

if they are fairly thrashing the DS then they shouldnt have any trouble riding the 80 / 85, itl take a bit of getting used to , but fortunately when you're a kid it doesnt really hurt that bad when you come off for some reason and it doesnt affect your family's income!!

have a go i reckon is the best bet.


also something of note, if they get too hooked on the awesomeness of 2strokes they are going to grow up to be disappointed as by the time they hit their late teens id say there will be no more 2 strokes being made by anyone - most of the jappas have stopped allready. so im not sure what CRF150s or whoever else makes an eqivalent are going for but that could be a direction worth looknig into

i do know that the 150rs are little hand grenades. steer clear, at least for now, dont know about the 09s.


Hmmm... my bosses son has a 08 yz85... and that does NOT putt around, pretty much all or nothing. its only 20hrs old, so i doubt the jettings out. perhaps its just a yamaha thing

[Reckless]

i do know that the 150rs are little hand grenades. steer clear, at least for now, dont know about the 09s.


Hmmm... my bosses son has a 08 yz85... and that does NOT putt around, pretty much all or nothing. its only 20hrs old, so i doubt the jettings out. perhaps its just a yamaha thing

Nope not a yamaha thing. We had an 03 Kx85 and the bloody thing did wheelies when your not even trying and thats with my 95 kilos on it. We sold it even though I put extra base gaskets in to lower the compression. It nearly put my boy off as his first bike. He could never get his confidence on it. We are going to try a CRF150, hate four strokes but trouble with that age group and size of bike its light switch power (MX race bike) or a XR, CRF, TTR etc not much other choice till they grow into a CRf230 or 125 or 200exc or Crf250x etc.

[Rupe]

Sorry honda_power but they do suit putting around on. We've had 3 of these and as long as they are jetted right and have a good plug then they are no different from any other.

Ours get used for arrowing and marking tracks out all the time. My son even likes to go bush bashing now...god bless his little heart.

Now my mrs rides one of your sons old bikes. Putts around fine, hasn't scared her, fouled a plug, wheelied radomly, or any thing else stupid. She loves it and it's so light to pick up when it's been dropped.

[oldskool]

Putts around fine, hasn't scared her, fouled a plug, wheelied radomly, or any thing else stupid. She loves it and it's so light to pick up when it's been dropped.

From what I am picking up since posting is that as long as you have the mx bike correctly jetted for (s)puttering (possibly slightly larger jets for a richer fuel to air mix?) and even better if a secondary reed valve(?) is present to control the powerband then an mx could be tamed for the trail?

I dimly recollect that was what my old PE175 was? A detuned RM125 with a larger piston kit?

I could be wrong and maybe I'm hoping to get more trick technology for the same price I would pay for either trail or mx bike?

confused!

[Rupe]

From what I am picking up since posting is that as long as you have the mx bike correctly jetted for (s)puttering (possibly slightly larger jets for a richer fuel to air mix?) and even better if a secondary reed valve(?) is present to control the powerband then an mx could be tamed for the trail?

I dimly recollect that was what my old PE175 was? A detuned RM125 with a larger piston kit?

I could be wrong and maybe I'm hoping to get more trick technology for the same price I would pay for either trail or mx bike?

confused!

It might be that they are jetted better or it might be that they're newer, I don't really know. Some people just agree with others for the sake of it on here. I can't really comment on all bikes as I haven't ridden many, but the 06 kx85 we have putts around fine and is pefect for my mrs/kids to learn on.

[Reckless]

I wasn't agreeing with anyone for the sake of it.
But I must say when I had my KX85 apart the port bridges in the barrel did look quite thin. If it had been ported that would explain why I could never tune the nasty snap out of it! I'm not sure if it had been a race bike in its history and had some engine mods done.
I've made an offer on an 06 CRF150 for him Rupe but haven't heard back yet. He's 14 with about 30 hours riding experience. He even cleared the table top at Kimis before his old man, so he can ride not to bad, but he was always a bit shy of twisting the wrist on his old kx because it was all on, or all off. I want to get him something he can thrash for a year to get his confidence up, make it fun for him. Wife can ride it as well probably if its a 150 4smoker.

Wadya reckon based on your KX85 and the above? Go 2smoke or 4stroke??

[noobi]

iv got an 05 crf 150 for sale if any ones interested

[Rupe]

I wasn't agreeing with anyone for the sake of it.

Wadya reckon based on your KX85 and the above? Go 2smoke or 4stroke??

Wasn't pointing the finger at you mate, just noticed some just jump in and say what others do to sound the part.

anyway, my budget didn't stretch to a fancy new 4stroke and the older ones had shit suspension. I can look after a 2stroke, and afford to (sort of), so for me I'd say 2stroke, but thats me.

One thing I do know is a mate of mine had a crf230 which had terrible suspension, and he struggled on it. He swapped it with a kdx (with pipe on) and his ridding improved greatly over night due to the bikes better sus, and more power. This is one reason I'm not a fan of the crf230, 150f farm style bike.

If you son wants to wants to have a go on our 85 rick I'll bring it next time as it needs the use while the wifes pregnant again.

[Reckless]

Wasn't pointing the finger at you mate, just noticed some just jump in and say what others do to sound the part.
Yeh mate that's cool!



anyway, my budget didn't stretch to a fancy new 4stroke and the older ones had shit suspension. I can look after a 2stroke, and afford to (sort of), so for me I'd say 2stroke, but thats me.

One thing I do know is a mate of mine had a crf230 which had terrible suspension, and he struggled on it. He swapped it with a kdx (with pipe on) and his ridding improved greatly over night due to the bikes better sus, and more power. This is one reason I'm not a fan of the crf230, 150f farm style bike.

I agree with everything you say. Don't have a big budget either thats why I asked the question still not sure what to do! Probably won't know for sure till after its bought and ridden???


If you son wants to wants to have a go on our 85.
I'll try asnd convince him to come. Thanks for that!!


while the wifes pregnant again.
You want to put that thing away LOL!! That way you could afford that new Ktm 200 Exc I know you want!!:bleh::msn-wink:

[Reckless]

iv got an 05 crf 150 for sale if any ones interested


Pm me your best price Noobi. Is yours in good nic? I'm looking at an 06 at the moment 3k ish. 06 was the year they revised the engine, added electric start and a few other bits and pieces. Major revision year so sorted like an 06 for better resale?

[cheese]

can you get a flywheel weight for a 80 or a 85? that would smooth things out.

[A&R]

Having gone through just about the whole honda 4 stroke range, 70, 100, 150, 230, 250x the kids are now on 2 strokers and loving it except the youngest girl gone from a crf 70 to crf 100.
In my opinion I would go for the kx85 on the basis your kids can already ride. If this is their first bike stick to the 100. My second daughter went from a 100 to 150 to KX85 and reckons the 85 is the best. She's no mxer but, it is lighter than the crf/xr 100 so makes a differrence when out on the trails as she's not struggling so much to pick it up and it starts easier. Also the suspension is miles better than that on the honda. Having said all that like someone has said before the honda air cooled 4 strokes are dead cheap to maintain and just keep going on and on. So you takes ya pick.

[B0000M]

^^^^^^ theres a good view on the situation for ya , this man's in the game right now with the range of bikes in question.

[oldskool]

can you get a flywheel weight for a 80 or a 85? that would smooth things out.
I've read some threads on US forums about that. It seems a lot of trouble to go to when theres bikes out there fit for purpose.


Having gone through just about the whole honda 4 stroke range, 70, 100, 150, 230, 250x the kids are now on 2 strokers and loving it except the youngest girl gone from a crf 70 to crf 100.
In my opinion I would go for the kx85 on the basis your kids can already ride. If this is their first bike stick to the 100. My second daughter went from a 100 to 150 to KX85 and reckons the 85 is the best. She's no mxer but, it is lighter than the crf/xr 100 so makes a differrence when out on the trails as she's not struggling so much to pick it up and it starts easier. Also the suspension is miles better than that on the honda. Having said all that like someone has said before the honda air cooled 4 strokes are dead cheap to maintain and just keep going on and on. So you takes ya pick.

It seems the general consensus is to keep clear of the MX'ers without the power valves because power valves result in a wider more controllable powerband which is ideal for trail riding. KTMboy has firsthand experience that the KX85 doesn't bog in sand trails. Most of our riding will be woodhill/sandpit so according to this threads advice, getting a pre 2000 groomed track rocket mini mx'er for sand wouldn't be wise?

This link pretty much sums up my CR80/XR100 dilemma
http://www.4strokes.com/forums/post.asp?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=68707&TOPIC_ID=14608&FORUM_ID=96

CR85RExpert Posted - 05/03/2005 : 1:58:23 PM
I would first like to say this, a Honda CR 80 is a race purpose, race built, mostly track driven bike. Who cares if it will smoke a XR 100, its a totally unfair comparison, sure the CR is faster aceleration and top end wise it stops faster and has more supension travel, but they are meant to be driven around the track for 20 laps 10 times a year, and not much more. Those factory racing teams rebuild engines and replace parts as if they were worth nothing, not because they have all the money in the world, but because 2 stroke race mx bike, parts wear out alot quicker because you are demanding more performance from the bike. With the speed that you get you have to pay the price of durability. A XR100 on the other hand is a totally different bike, its a recreational bike meant to be maintence free for a long time and start first kick almost every time. Now try doing that on a CR.

[oldskool]

Well sanity prevailed, I took a grip, disregarded my own desires to own a high strung bike and opted for a tidy little XR100R. I think it will be better for their development. Help build their confidence and spend more time having fun on the track rather than looking over my shoulder while I tinker with a temperamental performance 2 stroke.

It's missing a RH side cover (dealers call it a number board) that covers the muffler.. sooo if anyone knows of one that's spare please let me know!

Thanks for all the input and helpful advice!! :niceone: