Fuel going stale?

[cheese]

So how long before my petrol in my container goes stale? I was talking to a guy today and he said only keep it for 30 days. True? What happens to stale fuel? does it drop in octane?

[kezzafish]

my mate has a magazine (i think it's the latest "dirt rider down under") it has a big article on fuel and storage etc, worth a read. From memory... it does drop in octane and they say don't store fuel for any period of time... i believe their phrase was " if it comes home with you... put it in the lawnmower" or something to that effect. But fuck that i say, i'm not paying 2 dollars a litre and biffing it out. It's a really good read tho. there's interesting info on race fuels and octane fluctuation from the pump etc

[barty5]

call round i have that mag ypu can have a read it a 2 part thing started the month before. But yes it dose loose octane. Ypu just need to ride more offten.lol

[JMemonic]

Been like that for years, and by international standards NZ must keep 3 months worth of fuel in stack, give the rate it drops in octane I wonder how this works.

[laRIKin]

So how long before my petrol in my container goes stale? I was talking to a guy today and he said only keep it for 30 days. True? What happens to stale fuel? does it drop in octane?

True, ever since they took out the lead out of the petrol and boosted the octane levels with aromatics and it would evaporate out of the fuel and drop the octane levels.

Put some petrol in a small bottle and shake it.
When you undo the lid it will hiss like a bottle of fizzy drink.
Keep doing it and it will go flat and have lost a lot of it's octane rating.

So it is best not to shake the container or have it bouncing around in the boot of a car or pour it from one container to another to often.
As it will drop a little in octane level each time.

[wickle]

So how long before my petrol in my container goes stale? I was talking to a guy today and he said only keep it for 30 days. True? What happens to stale fuel? does it drop in octane?
how much are you storing! as I belive insurance companys can try and use it as a out if you are storing above a certain amount

[warewolf]

Been like that for years, and by international standards NZ must keep 3 months worth of fuel in stack, give the rate it drops in octane I wonder how this works.It works because it is stored correctly? And/or it is not stored with all the components mixed together? Pump petrol is a variable blend of up to several hundred components; race gas is a fairly fixed recipe to give consistent results.

I'm not sure about the losing the octane thing. What is being lost is the most volatile (easily evaporated) components, not all of them are the octane boosters (aromatics), but rather the stuff that helps cold starting. If these components burn more readily, losing them would potentially slow the burn and increase the octane rating. If using old fuel doesn't cause pinging, but does mean the engine runs like crap, then my thinking is probably correct.

Didn't we just have a thread about this? There's lots of good info on the web if you hunt for it - way more technical info than you'll ever need to know.

Two-stroke premix is another issue; that's not supposed to be kept beyond two weeks due to the oil reacting with the petrol.

Another reason not to keep petrol too long is that the recipe changes with the seasons.

[Reckless]

Cheese if you talking about your 2 stroke mix that has been on the shelf or in the tank for a month don't worry about it. Give it a shake and you won't even notice the difference and it won't do any harm. They are good old 2 strokes mate, run on anything!! If you don't want to use it, or loose it, chuck it in the car.
Now a 4 stroke is different, my mates WR450 wouldn't start one day after sitting for a few weeks and that was simply stale fuel. Drained it, got some new gas and it fired up right away after an hour of checking for spark etc. You've bloody near got to strip one of those things down just of get the plug out!!

In saying the above the other posts are correct it does loose octane but for our purposes its not a problem unless its been there for a year!!

[laRIKin]

I What is being lost is the most volatile (easily evaporated) components, not all of them are the octane boosters (aromatics),

Thank you thats the word (aromatics) I was looking for and have change my post.

[98tls]

Dont know about the fuel thing,i had an R32 GTR in the shed for 2 years with 1/2 a tank of Gas,once every 6 months it was started for a few minutes then left,it wasnt started once in the last 8 months of that period and when it was it fired up straight away and driven out of the garage,was nothing wrong with the gas.

[honda_power]

Cheese if you talking about your 2 stroke mix that has been on the shelf or in the tank for a month don't worry about it. Give it a shake and you won't even notice the difference and it won't do any harm. They are good old 2 strokes mate, run on anything!! If you don't want to use it, or loose it, chuck it in the car.
Now a 4 stroke is different, my mates WR450 wouldn't start one day after sitting for a few weeks and that was simply stale fuel. Drained it, got some new gas and it fired up right away after an hour of checking for spark etc. You've bloody near got to strip one of those things down just of get the plug out!!

In saying the above the other posts are correct it does loose octane but for our purposes its not a problem unless its been there for a year!!

my old crf250 has been out of action since the beginning of the year, fixed the shock and started her up on one year old fuel haha... so 2 weeks? nah. yamaha thing haha

[notch]

The volatile vapour components can travel through the plastic in plastic containers. Fuel stored in steel containers that are airtight lasts a lot longer.

[Buddy L]

my old crf250 has been out of action since the beginning of the year, fixed the shock and started her up on one year old fuel haha... so 2 weeks? nah. yamaha thing haha

Same i just start my bike on the weekend after about 8 weeks of not riding and she fired up after a couple of kicks.
I would always emty my gas cans of premix into my ute, after each ride as i didn't want premix sitting around for a while.
Ute would run alittle smokey but at lease everything was lubed up good.:niceone:

[cheese]

I basically just keep topping up my fuel every so often adn don't really let it run out. So the fuel is never that fresh really. I think that I'll use up what I have and then get more. I went through about 2 full tanks at woodhill today. I had a silly crash and have a sore knee and a massive bruise on my leg that if it was just slightly more to the right I'd be worried about making any more kids!!!

[krad_nz]

Nice to meet you at wood hill today Cheese :)

Stupid fouled plug ruined my first hour of riding though!
Tried the convict and criminal tracks once SpikedPunch had enough and they were definitely challenging. Took a few detours but my excuse was that I was already pretty stuffed by this stage. ;)

[Flip]

Fuel goes stale because the small easy to ignite molecules evaporate and the spark from a std ignition system will not ignite the fuel. Just add a little fresh fuel and everything will be fine, there is no need to dump the whole tank of fuel. I would say 6 weeks in a petrol tank is about the safe limit as all petrol tanks tend to breathe so some degree. In a sealed fuel container 3-9 months. Finally as the fast burning or small molecules leave the fuel the octane rating goes up and octane and igniteability are not the same thing.

[reofix]

stale fuel ....bullshit... its an old excuse for poor maintenance , bad design or shoddy manufacture

[ManDownUnder]

Last time I had problem ascribed to stale fuel was ummm...

... never?... and you?

That answers the concern as far as I'm concerned... the only issue coming close to it is 2 stroke fuel left in the carb of my weedeater which appears to vapourise out leaving a gummy residue (or maybe just the oil coming out of solution) behind making it hard to start.

Yeah - na. I'd happily buy a 44 gallon drum of the stuff on special and use it as needed if possible

[cheese]

Nice to meet you at wood hill today Cheese :)

Stupid fouled plug ruined my first hour of riding though!
Tried the convict and criminal tracks once SpikedPunch had enough and they were definitely challenging. Took a few detours but my excuse was that I was already pretty stuffed by this stage. ;)

Likewise.

I love that new Criminal track. there is some awesome hill climbs. Unfortunately that track is where I had my spill... Worst thing is that it was not on anything hard. I just fucked up a whoop, went forwards and then back wheel hit a tree root which sent me over the bars and nearly took out my nuts.

[warewolf]

Part of the problem is that gummy residue. It can get bad enough to alter the effective size of jets.

Yes, fuel does deteriorate with time, and yes it is an academic issue. Most of the time we wouldn't notice. If your engine was in not-so-good condition, or extremely highly-strung, you would be more inclined to notice... so reofix is kinda right in that respect.

Worst and only serious case I saw was a kids 2T mxer that had been left for a looong time, several years at least. Float bowl was left full of premix. It had set to the consistency and white colour of soft RTV silicone. We dug that out, and tried to start the bike, eventually by towing it behind the ute, tied with a fairly long rope, fortunately. When it fired up, it passed the ute before the rider could shut the throttle down :crazy: because that muck had jammed the throttle WFO. :D

[Hemex]

I just fucked up a whoop, went forwards and then back wheel hit a tree root which sent me over the bars and nearly took out my nuts.

You seemed to be talking in a slight Soprano tone the whole way back mate!:lol:

[Rupe]

You seemed to be talking in a slight Soprano tone the whole way back mate!:lol:

you two guys get out there today, how'd you find the sand hemi?

It's real good out there at the min, the guys have put heaps of effort into the place.

When you next out for a ride cheese?

[cheese]

Hemi had a spill first lap and broke his unbreakable brake lever!

Won't be riding for a bit, see all excuses under my GNCC thread - Thanks Aaron... LOL

[cheese]

Actually all excuses except about the fluke beating Aaron in the T100, that was skills..... LOL

[Rupe]

Actually all excuses except about the fluke beating Aaron in the T100, that was skills..... LOL

What about the "he will beat rupe" option, I see a challange comming on!!!

[barty5]

What about the "he will beat rupe" option, I see a challange comming on!!!

Well i thoughht the GNCC was going to be the challange might have to be the best of 3-4 laps round thunder when were down there next. (A loop)

[rocketman1]

Couldnt start the KDX the other week it had been sitting all winter with fuel in the tank.
About 30 kicks would not go. You how stuffed you get after that work out
Stuff It drained all the fuel out the tank and the carb, went the shell station bought got can of new gas V-power, sure enough 2 kicks & she lit up like a new one.
Im a believer.

[98tls]

Last time I had problem ascribed to stale fuel was ummm...

... never?... and you?

That answers the concern as far as I'm concerned... the only issue coming close to it is 2 stroke fuel left in the carb of my weedeater which appears to vapourise out leaving a gummy residue (or maybe just the oil coming out of solution) behind making it hard to start.

Yeah - na. I'd happily buy a 44 gallon drum of the stuff on special and use it as needed if possible :done: for me to,i know as i posted that it lasts at least 2 years with no problems from my own experiance.If you do an interweb search theres guys had no problems with fuel stored way longer than 2 years.

[ManDownUnder]

Couldnt start the KDX the other week it had been sitting all winter with fuel in the tank.
About 30 kicks would not go. You how stuffed you get after that work out
Stuff It drained all the fuel out the tank and the carb, went the shell station bought got can of new gas V-power, sure enough 2 kicks & she lit up like a new one.
Im a believer.

Yup - had the same problems meself with the weedeater at home so I did a little close examination.

Dismembered the carb flushed it out with contact cleaner, reassembled and reprimed it with exactly the same fuel from the weedeaters tank that had not been drained. Started as normal and away she went.

The tiny amount of fuel in the finest ports of the carb seems to evaporate over time leaving the 2 stroke oil to come out of solution. Being a lot less viscous is gums up the ultra fine ports in the carb.

The fuel didn't go off - it went away (leaving it's oily cargo behind).

Diesel does go off - well... it can get a bug. Petrol though? I'm yet to find any real evidence.

[B0000M]

images part 1

[B0000M]

his fuel will still be stale though, cos he just came and rode my bikes

however this is evidence he jumps more than 0.5 metres!

[cheese]

Ha ha thanks mate! LOL

[krad_nz]

Stunt double?

[barty5]

Stunt double?

good call you been loaning your gearr out cheese.:Pokey:

[camchain]

Lookin' good cheese. Been enjoying the stale gas stuff so hope there's plenty more mileage left in it. According to my calulations, fresh gas would only give you another 25.4mm of height on most jumps anyway.

After a long wait for parts, I had a stale gas issue but wasn't keen on tipping it into the car's fuel injection system. Poured it into a good size lump of foam rubber. Lots of surface area for fast evaporation. Shame to waste the dead dinosaur juice though.

[ManDownUnder]

Couldnt start the KDX the other week it had been sitting all winter with fuel in the tank.
About 30 kicks would not go. You how stuffed you get after that work out
Stuff It drained all the fuel out the tank and the carb, went the shell station bought got can of new gas V-power, sure enough 2 kicks & she lit up like a new one.
Im a believer.

Try dropping a bit of fuel ("stale" or otherwise) directly into the throat of the carb, start it on that and watch it run quite happily on the "stale" fuel

Exactly what happened with me recently with a mate's 2 stroke outboard motor. God Only knows how long the fuel'd been sitting in it - 18 months at least.

No start... no start... no start... no start... no start...

Slosh of fuel and she went like a bought one and run quite happily on the "stale" fuel.

If it remains a concern - give me a ring - seriously - I'll buy it off you... 60c/litre ok?

[B0000M]

the problem is over, i just re-incarnated the topic due to the evidence of cheese actually riding lol

[krad_nz]

Hehehe.

Cheese must have really pissed some people off given how much shit you guys give him. :devil2:

[barty5]

Hehehe.

Cheese must have really pissed some people off given how much shit you guys give him. :devil2:


Nah he take it wwith a pinch of salt fuck they give me enough shit bout my age which isnt that old. (waits for the replys)

[cheese]

LOL I was wondering if I'm some almighty asshole, but no. Just asked a few sillyish questions.....

[barty5]

LOL I was wondering if I'm some almighty asshole, but no. Just asked a few sillyish questions.....

with a good sense of humour to go